• Re: (Tears) Earth Is Room Enough by Isaac Asimov

    From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 02:41:08 2026
    On Sun, 10 May 2026 15:43:21 -0400, William Hyde wrote:

    The Bandersnatch are large and intelligent.

    But not frumious ... ?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 14:08:03 2026
    On Thu, 7 May 2026 13:21:22 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    Barron Trump has been able to vote for over two years as he just turned
    20. We are able to vote at age 18 in the USA.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barron_Trump

    Lynn

    Now I'm REALLY confused as Wiki says the US voting age went from 21 to
    18 in 1971 - and when I inquired of the US Consul in Vancouver about
    opting for US citizenship I was 19 (which I had the right to do "at
    the age of majority" having an American and Canadian parent but born
    in Canada) he didn't mention it but spoke as if the voting age was
    still 21. And that would have been 1974....(he took me more seriously
    as a college student than he would have when I was of high school age
    - my father had become a Canadian citizen when I was in 11th grade and apparently the US government didn't acknowledge renunciation of US
    citizenship so he got to keep both - even though I do not believe he
    then would have been required to file a US tax return if he didn't
    have US income - but that rule changed later)

    As I said previously the only reason for me to have done this was to
    give this option to my children - and that wasn't what the law at that
    point said. (My eldest was born when I was 31 but even at 19 I figured
    I'd probably meet the right girl eventually - I wasn't committed but
    didn't see celibacy in my future)

    As it is, one of my daughters has >3< citizenships since she went to
    the UK in 2016, took out British citizenship AND since Poland has a
    program where children and grandchildren of Polish born people can
    take Polish citizenship (and my father-in-law was born in Poland) -
    let's just say post-Brexit, European border points have "EU citizen"
    and "non-EU citizen" lines and it drives her British partner crazy
    when she gets through inspection in 1/4 the time it takes him - since
    obviously Britain is no longer EU.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 14:14:46 2026
    On Thu, 7 May 2026 16:42:54 -0400, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Trump's claims about fentanyl coming from Canada are a simple lie. The >cited amount is the total seized by the Northern Border force, with
    Trump and his stooges claiming that all such seizures come from Canada.

    But this is utterly false. The largest single seizure, made in Spokane,
    has been traced back as far as Arizona. Only a tiny fraction of the
    total claimed is believed to have come from Canada.

    It's a good lie because simpletons look at that word "Border" and assume
    the force is actually at the border. In fact they operate in about a
    third of the country.

    It's also worth noting that a fentanyl pill sells for about ten times
    more in Vancouver than it does in Washington. There's simply no
    incentive to ship it south.


    William Hyde

    There's no question SOME fentanyl enters the US from Canada - what I
    was saying is that far more goes the other way. It's a big business
    for the "outlaw motorcycle gangs" that dominate the drug trade on both
    sides of the border.

    I certainly knew that "Border + Immigration" operates far more than
    just at the border - the ONLY part of that that's true is Customs and
    in most cases that only affects businesses.

    But yeah - that comment from Trump about the cross border drug trade
    being primarily N -> S from Canada REALLY burns me since it simply
    isn't true. (It may or may not be true for finished fentanyl but if
    you include the chemicals needed to make fentanyl - 95+% of which
    originate in China - it's about 10-1 US into Canada compared to Canada
    US.)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 14:17:57 2026
    On Fri, 8 May 2026 01:36:26 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    On 2026-05-07, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
    Barring tearing up the Constitution how do you get Trump in 2028?

    Should any GOP supporter actually WANT
    that? Donald Trump was born in June 1946 and
    thus would be 82 years old at the end of the
    present term. Even were it constitutionally
    possible, would you really want an 86 year
    old in the White House? At what point does his
    health become a factor?

    That was an irrelevant question to TDS'ers
    when Biden was sounding 100 at 70....

    I watched both Trump-Biden debates in 2024 as well as Trump-Harris and
    my personal opinion is that Harris was worse in her debate than Biden
    was in the second debate (which was the one where he sounded deep in
    dementia). I don't know who prepped her for the debate but they did a
    terrible terrible job preparing her for it.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 14:19:47 2026
    On Thu, 7 May 2026 23:23:06 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    There are of course more ways to kill people than firearms ...

    But firearms are the main source of the problem.

    Which problem are you talking about ? Homicides or suicides ?

    Take away firearms, never gonna happen, and almost the same number of >homicides will occur with knives.

    Trust me - I know that - my mother got run over by a motor home and
    while she lived to be loaded into an ambulance, died in the admitting
    area at the local hospital.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 14:21:17 2026
    On Fri, 8 May 2026 11:46:01 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    He was not left wing except in the same sense
    as Abraham Lincoln nor a socialist Democrat
    but he followed Trump's deal with the Taliban
    which won him no good publicity.

    Given your assessment of Joe and other matters,
    you regularly demonstrate being basically the
    Joe Biden of this newsgroup.

    Wow - that's REALLY mean!

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 14:51:28 2026


    On 5/14/26 14:21, The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Fri, 8 May 2026 11:46:01 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    He was not left wing except in the same sense
    as Abraham Lincoln nor a socialist Democrat
    but he followed Trump's deal with the Taliban
    which won him no good publicity.

    Given your assessment of Joe and other matters,
    you regularly demonstrate being basically the
    Joe Biden of this newsgroup.

    Wow - that's REALLY mean!

    Of this news group perhaps, but I am 88, older than Trump
    or Biden, both callow youth. If I had known that being a narcissistic
    idiot was not disqualifying I would have run as a Centrist Republican
    of the sort I knew of growing up, Fiscally Responsible of the Party
    of Lincoln.
    Current batch are fiscally irresponsible and of the party of
    the Confederacy. They want to destroy the Federal Government
    are are doing the worst they can to achieve that end.

    bliss - won't climb the tree to go out on a limb but will hand someone a
    saw.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 18:03:21 2026
    The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Thu, 7 May 2026 16:42:54 -0400, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Trump's claims about fentanyl coming from Canada are a simple lie. The
    cited amount is the total seized by the Northern Border force, with
    Trump and his stooges claiming that all such seizures come from Canada.

    But this is utterly false. The largest single seizure, made in Spokane,
    has been traced back as far as Arizona. Only a tiny fraction of the
    total claimed is believed to have come from Canada.

    It's a good lie because simpletons look at that word "Border" and assume
    the force is actually at the border. In fact they operate in about a
    third of the country.

    It's also worth noting that a fentanyl pill sells for about ten times
    more in Vancouver than it does in Washington. There's simply no
    incentive to ship it south.


    William Hyde

    There's no question SOME fentanyl enters the US from Canada

    The last year for which court figures are available gives it as about a
    pound. Completely negligible.


    - what I
    was saying is that far more goes the other way.

    Don't say anything that gives the slightest cover to these liars.


    It's a big business
    for the "outlaw motorcycle gangs" that dominate the drug trade on both
    sides of the border.

    I certainly knew that "Border + Immigration" operates far more than
    just at the border - the ONLY part of that that's true is Customs and
    in most cases that only affects businesses.

    But yeah - that comment from Trump about the cross border drug trade
    being primarily N -> S from Canada REALLY burns me since it simply
    isn't true.

    Millions of maga types believe it because Trump said it. I wonder if
    Lynn does?

    (It may or may not be true for finished fentanyl but if
    you include the chemicals needed to make fentanyl - 95+% of which
    originate in China - it's about 10-1 US into Canada compared to Canada
    US.)

    And now you're giving them cover again.


    William Hyde


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 15:19:02 2026
    On Fri, 08 May 2026 08:05:46 -0700, Paul S Person
    <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    IIRC, 100 miles inland. Hence, yes, Spokane. And, probably, Milwaukee.

    I would think that "border" includes the various seacoasts, not just
    the dry parts.

    As an unfortunate Brit tourista found out while jogging in the woods a
    few years back, the Canadian/USA border is not even /marked/ in
    places. Never mind having a wall. It took her friends, relatives, and >government several months to retrieve her from wherever the USA Border
    guys put her.

    A lot of the northern US cities were based both on rivers and railway
    crossing points, most of which were built from 1865-1900. Spokane is
    about 230 miles from Seattle (more or less straight east). Given the
    terrain in that area (my aunt lives about 30 miles N of the Canada-US
    border N of Spokane -) it would not surprise me that much of that
    border is not marked in places though it certainly is along all roads
    and highways. (Google is dead wrong in saying it is 2588 km from
    Nelson to the US border since it also says Nelson is 479 miles from
    Spokane which is also wrong as it says in the next sentence it's 149.6
    miles by highway. 479 miles S from Nelson would be close to the WA/OR
    state borders...)

    Bottom line is that there are several mountain ranges between
    Vancouver and the BC / AB border and several of the small towns were
    originally built to accomodate the railways. Most of the signs along
    that part of the Canada-US border are on the roads which cross the
    border - and most of the off-road routes are fairly challenging hikes
    for hikers.

    I can't imagine that anyone but an extremely experienced hiker would
    want to cross that border over 90% of it (e.g. anywhere more than 2 or
    3 miles from a roadway)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 15:34:22 2026
    On Sat, 9 May 2026 07:19:09 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:


    Viewing yourself as ?good guys?? through very selective vision.

    I wonder if as many Uighurs suffered as Native Americans over the
    centuries of US expansionism ...

    Estimates vary widely but for Native Americans (by which I assume you
    also include those in what is now Canada) the estimates are from 3.8 -
    20 million.

    Thus making it VERY difficult to judge whether the Native population
    has risen or fallen since contact (5.8m in the US, 1.8m in Canada), as
    opposed to the equally fuzzy stats for Uighurs (roughly 8m according
    to Britannica - which doesn't make it clear whether that's just China
    - where about 90-95% of them live or in the adjoining ex-Soviet
    republics as well)

    One thing making things VERY complex in British Columbia where I live
    is that there are several tribes claiming to have lived in the same
    area - especially within 100 miles of Vancouver which has the highest
    property values as well as the best harbor N of San Francisco. (And
    much closer to China and Japan than San Fran as a simple look at a
    globe would show you)

    Naturally each tribe wants a separate payoff for their claims even
    when - especially when - they overlap. Now whether you believe
    aboriginal peoples have the right to redress for "lost lands" or not
    is one thing but few people support payment for the same land multiple
    times over.

    My personal opinion is that the government should tell them to get
    together and figure out who is going to claim what and tell them in
    advance that if any further claims come forward henceforth ALL of them
    will be disallowed and paid at zero cents on the dollar. Because
    overlapping land claims is simply fraud.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 15:39:40 2026
    On Sat, 9 May 2026 19:40:58 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    That's a heck of a lot of verbiage to say "most
    people are what I consider morons".

    But I totally understand the attraction to
    practicing typing!

    Yes it is - but the critical reason for the current war there is that
    the Israelis are not prepared to have Iranian nukes (a) because they
    don't want to go to war with Iran and feel Iranian nukes make that
    inevitable and (b) a significant number of Iranian nukes means pretty
    much every oil state that could afford nukes would attempt to build as
    many as possible and that would make the Middle East a FAR more
    dangerous place than now.

    Imagine if the Shah of Iran had had nukes during the revolution of
    1979-80 - with the high likelihood that Khomeini gets them intact.
    Then imagine how that scenario would have played out over the last
    40-45 years.

    Like what you envision? I thought not.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 15:44:12 2026
    On Sun, 10 May 2026 04:04:47 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    Apparently "what seems obvious about the word
    visually is it implying" doesn't mean to you
    what it means to me, which was a reference
    to the first seven letters of the word
    'conservativism' being 'conserv'.

    Oh well! Different minds, different meanings!

    Not to mention that what most Conservatives want to conserve are
    values (including things like 'living within your means' which Trump
    seems against)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 12:03:27 2026
    On 2026-05-14, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
    On Fri, 8 May 2026 01:36:26 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    On 2026-05-07, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
    Barring tearing up the Constitution how do
    you get Trump in 2028?

    Should any GOP supporter actually WANT
    that? Donald Trump was born in June 1946 and
    thus would be 82 years old at the end of the
    present term. Even were it constitutionally
    possible, would you really want an 86 year
    old in the White House? At what point does
    his health become a factor?

    That was an irrelevant question to TDS'ers
    when Biden was sounding 100 at 70....

    I watched both Trump-Biden debates in 2024 as
    well as Trump-Harris and my personal opinion
    is that Harris was worse in her debate than
    Biden was in the second debate (which was the
    one where he sounded deep in dementia). I don't
    know who prepped her for the debate but they did
    a terrible terrible job preparing her for it.

    The Democratic party can't even find people
    capable of pretending to sound intelligent
    anymore. That's what happens when your
    candidate selection criteria has more
    to do with physical attributes (e.g.
    skin color, gender), and the hurling
    of increasingly dishonest and
    preposterous invective and/or
    hoaxes at one chosen target
    to "hate rally" on.

    That seems to be all they do anymore. And what's
    even more hilarious than such being chosen as a
    strategy is that they can't even see how
    ridiculous they look, or how many have
    caught on to their moronic side show -
    complete with those demented automaton
    eyes (e.g. Adam Schiff, Hakeen
    Jefferies, AOC) - as though in
    a permanent state of being
    eletrocuted.

    To me, voting for such seems irrefutable
    evidence of being an absolute moron.

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 12:07:44 2026
    On 2026-05-14, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
    On Fri, 8 May 2026 11:46:01 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    He was not left wing except in the same sense
    as Abraham Lincoln nor a socialist Democrat
    but he followed Trump's deal with the Taliban
    which won him no good publicity.

    Given your assessment of Joe and other matters,
    you regularly demonstrate being basically the
    Joe Biden of this newsgroup.

    Wow - that's REALLY mean!

    I don't see how one can avoid being seen as such
    when perpetually supporting and defending such
    idiocy/idiots.

    The screw isn't merely loose: it fell down the
    nearest sewer drain long ago....

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 12:24:29 2026
    On 2026-05-14, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
    On Sat, 9 May 2026 19:40:58 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    That's a heck of a lot of verbiage to say "most
    people are what I consider morons".

    But I totally understand the attraction to
    practicing typing!

    Yes it is - but the critical reason for the
    current war there is that the Israelis are not
    prepared to have Iranian nukes (a) because
    they don't want to go to war with Iran and
    feel Iranian nukes make that inevitable and
    (b) a significant number of Iranian nukes means
    pretty much every oil state that could afford
    nukes would attempt to build as many as possible
    and that would make the Middle East a FAR more
    dangerous place than now.

    Imagine if the Shah of Iran had had nukes
    during the revolution of 1979-80 - with the
    high likelihood that Khomeini gets them intact.
    Then imagine how that scenario would have played
    out over the last 40-45 years.

    Like what you envision? I thought not.

    I don't pretend to understand any of it. And
    I don't know how I could come to understand it
    having concluded sometime in the last decade that
    the so-called "news media" will do/say anything
    for a buck. Basing opinion on what journalists
    *themselves* call *stories* seems like trying
    to create an actual building/structure with
    playing cards.

    But I do get a kick out of how others seem to be
    able to take it all so seriously that they'd come
    to blows - or attempt to assassinate a president
    - over it. To me it looks like pinnacle lunacy,
    which I don't mind taking humorous pot shots
    at, knowing how helpless such lunatics are
    to avoid taking embarrassing offense - at
    the direction of their insanely inflated
    egos.

    I've concluded that helping demented
    psychopaths out themselves provides
    an important public service.

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 12:28:09 2026
    On 2026-05-14, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
    On Sun, 10 May 2026 04:04:47 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    Apparently "what seems obvious about the word
    visually is it implying" doesn't mean to you
    what it means to me, which was a reference
    to the first seven letters of the word
    'conservativism' being 'conserv'.

    Oh well! Different minds, different meanings!

    Not to mention that what most Conservatives
    want to conserve are values (including things
    like 'living within your means' which Trump
    seems against)

    Yeah, that is pretty interesting. My first
    exposure to Trump was long ago when I lived
    in the vicinity of NYC, and would hear him
    on the Howard Stern show from time to time.
    I couldn't have ever imagined him somehow
    becoming a leader of what I consider
    genuine conservatives.

    But given most humans are incurable morons,
    pretty much anything is possible in the
    human realm. I don't foresee kicking
    and screaming on the way out of it.

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 08:41:48 2026
    On Thu, 14 May 2026 15:19:02 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 08 May 2026 08:05:46 -0700, Paul S Person ><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    IIRC, 100 miles inland. Hence, yes, Spokane. And, probably, Milwaukee.

    I would think that "border" includes the various seacoasts, not just
    the dry parts.

    As an unfortunate Brit tourista found out while jogging in the woods a
    few years back, the Canadian/USA border is not even /marked/ in
    places. Never mind having a wall. It took her friends, relatives, and >>government several months to retrieve her from wherever the USA Border
    guys put her.

    A lot of the northern US cities were based both on rivers and railway >crossing points, most of which were built from 1865-1900. Spokane is
    about 230 miles from Seattle (more or less straight east). Given the
    terrain in that area (my aunt lives about 30 miles N of the Canada-US
    border N of Spokane -) it would not surprise me that much of that
    border is not marked in places though it certainly is along all roads
    and highways. (Google is dead wrong in saying it is 2588 km from
    Nelson to the US border since it also says Nelson is 479 miles from
    Spokane which is also wrong as it says in the next sentence it's 149.6
    miles by highway. 479 miles S from Nelson would be close to the WA/OR
    state borders...)

    Bottom line is that there are several mountain ranges between
    Vancouver and the BC / AB border and several of the small towns were >originally built to accomodate the railways. Most of the signs along
    that part of the Canada-US border are on the roads which cross the
    border - and most of the off-road routes are fairly challenging hikes
    for hikers.

    I can't imagine that anyone but an extremely experienced hiker would
    want to cross that border over 90% of it (e.g. anywhere more than 2 or
    3 miles from a roadway)

    Interesting information, to be sure.

    IIRC, she was a tourist in Canada who went out for a jog and stepped
    in the USA unawares. Any hotels/motels close to the border with
    jogging paths nearby?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 08:45:44 2026
    On Thu, 14 May 2026 18:03:21 -0400, William Hyde
    <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Thu, 7 May 2026 16:42:54 -0400, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Trump's claims about fentanyl coming from Canada are a simple lie.
    The
    cited amount is the total seized by the Northern Border force, with
    Trump and his stooges claiming that all such seizures come from
    Canada.

    But this is utterly false. The largest single seizure, made in
    Spokane,
    has been traced back as far as Arizona. Only a tiny fraction of the
    total claimed is believed to have come from Canada.

    It's a good lie because simpletons look at that word "Border" and
    assume
    the force is actually at the border. In fact they operate in about a
    third of the country.

    It's also worth noting that a fentanyl pill sells for about ten times
    more in Vancouver than it does in Washington. There's simply no
    incentive to ship it south.


    William Hyde

    There's no question SOME fentanyl enters the US from Canada

    The last year for which court figures are available gives it as about a >pound. Completely negligible.


    - what I
    was saying is that far more goes the other way.

    Don't say anything that gives the slightest cover to these liars.


    It's a big business
    for the "outlaw motorcycle gangs" that dominate the drug trade on both
    sides of the border.

    I certainly knew that "Border + Immigration" operates far more than
    just at the border - the ONLY part of that that's true is Customs and
    in most cases that only affects businesses.

    But yeah - that comment from Trump about the cross border drug trade
    being primarily N -> S from Canada REALLY burns me since it simply
    isn't true.

    Millions of maga types believe it because Trump said it. I wonder if
    Lynn does?

    (It may or may not be true for finished fentanyl but if
    you include the chemicals needed to make fentanyl - 95+% of which
    originate in China - it's about 10-1 US into Canada compared to Canada
    US.)

    And now you're giving them cover again.

    Yes, it is /so/ hard not be fair and balanced when you are not MAGA.

    OK, that didn't come out quite as intended. I am not stating or
    implying that MAGA is fair and balanced, but that many of those not in
    MAGA feel a need to be and so have trouble leaving no loopholes for
    MAGA to crawl through as they go back under the rock they came out
    from under.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 08:47:54 2026
    On Thu, 14 May 2026 15:34:22 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 9 May 2026 07:19:09 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:


    Viewing yourself as ?good guys?? through very selective
    vision.

    I wonder if as many Uighurs suffered as Native Americans over the
    centuries of US expansionism ...

    Estimates vary widely but for Native Americans (by which I assume you
    also include those in what is now Canada) the estimates are from 3.8 -
    20 million.

    Thus making it VERY difficult to judge whether the Native population
    has risen or fallen since contact (5.8m in the US, 1.8m in Canada), as >opposed to the equally fuzzy stats for Uighurs (roughly 8m according
    to Britannica - which doesn't make it clear whether that's just China
    - where about 90-95% of them live or in the adjoining ex-Soviet
    republics as well)

    One thing making things VERY complex in British Columbia where I live
    is that there are several tribes claiming to have lived in the same
    area - especially within 100 miles of Vancouver which has the highest >property values as well as the best harbor N of San Francisco. (And
    much closer to China and Japan than San Fran as a simple look at a
    globe would show you)

    Naturally each tribe wants a separate payoff for their claims even
    when - especially when - they overlap. Now whether you believe
    aboriginal peoples have the right to redress for "lost lands" or not
    is one thing but few people support payment for the same land multiple
    times over.

    My personal opinion is that the government should tell them to get
    together and figure out who is going to claim what and tell them in
    advance that if any further claims come forward henceforth ALL of them
    will be disallowed and paid at zero cents on the dollar. Because
    overlapping land claims is simply fraud.

    From our perspective, perhaps.

    From their perspective, however, things may be different.

    Still, getting all sides together to work out a deal everyone can live
    with is /definitely/ the optimal course.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 08:56:40 2026
    On Thu, 14 May 2026 15:39:40 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 9 May 2026 19:40:58 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    That's a heck of a lot of verbiage to say "most
    people are what I consider morons".

    But I totally understand the attraction to
    practicing typing!

    Yes it is - but the critical reason for the current war there is that
    the Israelis are not prepared to have Iranian nukes (a) because they
    don't want to go to war with Iran and feel Iranian nukes make that
    inevitable and (b) a significant number of Iranian nukes means pretty
    much every oil state that could afford nukes would attempt to build as
    many as possible and that would make the Middle East a FAR more
    dangerous place than now.

    Imagine if the Shah of Iran had had nukes during the revolution of
    1979-80 - with the high likelihood that Khomeini gets them intact.
    Then imagine how that scenario would have played out over the last
    40-45 years.

    Like what you envision? I thought not.

    Oh, I don't know about that:

    1. Iraq/Saddam would be gone early in the Iraq-Iran war.
    2. Iran would be gone shortly thereafter. They may have gotten along
    with tweaking the nose of the /only/ nation to have used nuclear
    weapons in war for the last 40-45 years but their using them would
    have severe repercussions.
    3. Those remaining could them be rounded up and the survivors
    re-educated. Thoroughly.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 16:32:35 2026
    On 2026-05-15, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    Yes, it is /so/ hard not be fair and balanced
    when you are not MAGA.

    OK, that didn't come out quite as intended. I am
    not stating or implying that MAGA is fair and
    balanced, but that many of those not in MAGA
    feel a need to be and so have trouble leaving
    no loopholes for MAGA to crawl through as they
    go back under the rock they came out from under.

    Now I'm not sure whether to consider MAGA
    Derangement Syndrome a secondary effect
    of Trump Derangement Syndrome, or a
    bona fide derangement until
    itself....

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 15:05:24 2026
    The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Sun, 10 May 2026 04:04:47 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    Apparently "what seems obvious about the word
    visually is it implying" doesn't mean to you
    what it means to me, which was a reference
    to the first seven letters of the word
    'conservativism' being 'conserv'.

    Oh well! Different minds, different meanings!

    Not to mention that what most Conservatives want to conserve are
    values (including things like 'living within your means' which Trump
    seems against)

    I don't know of any conservatives who are for that value. Certainly not
    here in Canada.

    Well, none in any conservative party. There are a few voices in the wilderness calling for fiscal sanity.

    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 21:54:57 2026
    On 5/15/2026 11:41 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 14 May 2026 15:19:02 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 08 May 2026 08:05:46 -0700, Paul S Person
    <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    IIRC, 100 miles inland. Hence, yes, Spokane. And, probably, Milwaukee.

    I would think that "border" includes the various seacoasts, not just
    the dry parts.

    As an unfortunate Brit tourista found out while jogging in the woods a
    few years back, the Canadian/USA border is not even /marked/ in
    places. Never mind having a wall. It took her friends, relatives, and
    government several months to retrieve her from wherever the USA Border
    guys put her.

    A lot of the northern US cities were based both on rivers and railway
    crossing points, most of which were built from 1865-1900. Spokane is
    about 230 miles from Seattle (more or less straight east). Given the
    terrain in that area (my aunt lives about 30 miles N of the Canada-US
    border N of Spokane -) it would not surprise me that much of that
    border is not marked in places though it certainly is along all roads
    and highways. (Google is dead wrong in saying it is 2588 km from
    Nelson to the US border since it also says Nelson is 479 miles from
    Spokane which is also wrong as it says in the next sentence it's 149.6
    miles by highway. 479 miles S from Nelson would be close to the WA/OR
    state borders...)

    Bottom line is that there are several mountain ranges between
    Vancouver and the BC / AB border and several of the small towns were
    originally built to accomodate the railways. Most of the signs along
    that part of the Canada-US border are on the roads which cross the
    border - and most of the off-road routes are fairly challenging hikes
    for hikers.

    I can't imagine that anyone but an extremely experienced hiker would
    want to cross that border over 90% of it (e.g. anywhere more than 2 or
    3 miles from a roadway)

    Interesting information, to be sure.

    IIRC, she was a tourist in Canada who went out for a jog and stepped
    in the USA unawares. Any hotels/motels close to the border with
    jogging paths nearby?

    There's the Peace Arch Park in Douglas Washington, which spans the
    border, and has to remain unfenced due to complex reasons involving
    the Treaty of Ghent.

    There's also Derby Line, vt, where a small town straddles the border
    - the line runs right through the library. Since 9/11 crossings there
    have become much less casual.

    pt


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 20:59:10 2026
    On 16/05/2026 03:56, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 14 May 2026 15:39:40 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
    wrote:

    snip

    Imagine if the Shah of Iran had had nukes during the revolution of
    1979-80 - with the high likelihood that Khomeini gets them intact.
    Then imagine how that scenario would have played out over the last
    40-45 years.

    Like what you envision? I thought not.

    Oh, I don't know about that:

    1. Iraq/Saddam would be gone early in the Iraq-Iran war.

    I think that Iraq would have refused US/Israeli orders to wage war on
    Iran if Iran had nuclear weapons.
    (North Korea is still pretty safe from being attacked.)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 10:44:36 2026
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    There's also Derby Line, vt, where a small town straddles the border
    - the line runs right through the library. Since 9/11 crossings there
    have become much less casual.

    For years I bought frequency-determining crystals from a company called
    QMX Crystals. Their factory had a yellow line going down the center, and
    half was in Mexico and half was in the US and various procedures were done
    on each side of the border depending on tax costs.

    They managed to survive 9-11 but didn't make it to get to the first Trump presidency.

    Crystals were another one of those technologies that exploded during WWII
    and helped us win the war. There were hundreds of small companies making crystals for the military in the forties... by the time I was interested in radio in the seventies it was down to a couple dozen larger companies.
    These days there are really only a couple companies in the world making custom-cut-to-frequency crystals.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 20:37:25 2026
    Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    There's also Derby Line, vt, where a small town straddles the border
    - the line runs right through the library. Since 9/11 crossings there
    have become much less casual.

    For years I bought frequency-determining crystals from a company called
    QMX Crystals. Their factory had a yellow line going down the center, and half was in Mexico and half was in the US and various procedures were done
    on each side of the border depending on tax costs.

    They managed to survive 9-11 but didn't make it to get to the first Trump presidency.

    Crystals were another one of those technologies that exploded during WWII
    and helped us win the war. There were hundreds of small companies making crystals for the military in the forties... by the time I was interested in radio in the seventies it was down to a couple dozen larger companies.
    These days there are really only a couple companies in the world making custom-cut-to-frequency crystals.
    --scott

    In the mid 70s I knew a physics PhD who designed and made new crystals
    for industry. There was a demand for his product but he could not
    afford the patent process, which limited his return.

    He gave it up to work on one of the first remote car starters. He said
    his customer base was the Saudis on the one hand, and people in New
    Jersey on the other.

    Fortunately, he was an excellent musician. I suspect that paid the rent.


    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 24 11:15:56 2026
    On Fri, 15 May 2026 21:54:57 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    There's the Peace Arch Park in Douglas Washington, which spans the
    border, and has to remain unfenced due to complex reasons involving
    the Treaty of Ghent.

    The Peace Arch park is mostly notable for being where the 49th
    parallel (which is the Canada US border for everything west of Ontario
    other than AK and HI) hits salt water on the west coast has existed
    for more than 100 years - and the Arch was built as a commemoration of
    100 years of peace following the War of 1812.

    Got a citation on the gates having to be open? I remember during the
    Vietnam war there was a MAJOR hubbub when protesters closed the gate
    for a short time.

    Probably the most famous story about that park involves Paul Robeson
    who in 1952 during the McCarthy era was banned from entering Canada
    (he was a Communist party member) which meant he couldn't play his
    concert in Vancouver (which is about 20-25 miles north of there).

    What they did was bring two pickup trucks (which were brought to about
    10 feet south of the border) and he sang from the back of one truck
    while the other truck was used for sound equipment

    https://www.historylink.org/File/8163

    (The article was obviously written by an American since Blaine, WA is
    the border town on the US side of the line while White Rock, BC is the
    border town - now an outer suburb of Vancouver - on the Canadian side)

    There's also Derby Line, vt, where a small town straddles the border
    - the line runs right through the library. Since 9/11 crossings there
    have become much less casual.

    I've heard about that one.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 24 14:39:42 2026
    On 5/24/2026 2:15 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Fri, 15 May 2026 21:54:57 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    There's the Peace Arch Park in Douglas Washington, which spans the
    border, and has to remain unfenced due to complex reasons involving
    the Treaty of Ghent.

    The Peace Arch park is mostly notable for being where the 49th
    parallel (which is the Canada US border for everything west of Ontario
    other than AK and HI) hits salt water on the west coast has existed
    for more than 100 years - and the Arch was built as a commemoration of
    100 years of peace following the War of 1812.

    Got a citation on the gates having to be open? I remember during the
    Vietnam war there was a MAJOR hubbub when protesters closed the gate
    for a short time.

    Not sure how authoritative this is, but:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/peace-arch-us-side-picnic-access-for-canadians-1.5635031

    - start quote -

    Saunders said the province of B.C. "kind of has their hands tied" given
    the legal underpinnings of the park enshrined in 1814 in the Treaty of
    Ghent, a settlement after the War of 1812 between U.S. and England. The
    park allows citizens of both the U.S. and Canada to mingle without
    technically crossing any border. It was meant as an enduring symbol of
    the sibling-like relationship between the two countries.

    Saunders said the treaty stipulates there could not be any boundaries or physical barriers erected on the northern border of the U.S. ? and if
    either side violated that treaty ? the boundaries revert back to pre-treaty.

    "So if the Canadian government decides that they want to cut off the
    Peace Arch park from Canadians entering from Zero Avenue by putting up a physical barrier, then technically the United States can claim back part
    of Southern Ontario and Quebec, under this treaty which would be
    broken," he said.

    And if the Americans violate the treaty? Canada gets back parts of
    Maine, Michigan and Wisconsin.

    - end quote -

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)