My guess is that Frank Herbert (the One True Herbert), when doing his >world-building for the original Dune, needed some explanation for why
there were "mentats" and not intelligent computers in his universe, and >invented a "jihad against thinking machines" as a background, without >thinking a whole lot about the backstory.
Later, when Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson started writing all the >pre-quels to the Dune story (which are absolute garbage, IMHO) they had
to come up with details about the "Butlerian Jihad" and the >Harkonnen-Atreides feud and how the Bene Gesserit got started, and all
that. I tried reading some the prequels and just bounced off as
unbelievable and badly written too.
What I would like to know is the origin story of Arrakis itself. I think
it was mentioned somewhere in the original books (maybe in some part
about the planetologist Liet Kynes) that Arrakis was not always a desert >world, and that the sandworms had been introduced from somewhere else?
Does anyone remember that?
On Tue, 12 May 2026 13:34:50 -0700, Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> wrote:
<snippo: the later Dune books>
My guess is that Frank Herbert (the One True Herbert), when doing his
world-building for the original Dune, needed some explanation for why
there were "mentats" and not intelligent computers in his universe, and
invented a "jihad against thinking machines" as a background, without
thinking a whole lot about the backstory.
That would be my guess as well.
Later, when Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson started writing all the
pre-quels to the Dune story (which are absolute garbage, IMHO) they had
to come up with details about the "Butlerian Jihad" and the
Harkonnen-Atreides feud and how the Bene Gesserit got started, and all
that. I tried reading some the prequels and just bounced off as
unbelievable and badly written too.
I was pleasantly unaware of /prequels/ until I read this.
I think I will remain blissfully ignorant of them.
What I would like to know is the origin story of Arrakis itself. I think
it was mentioned somewhere in the original books (maybe in some part
about the planetologist Liet Kynes) that Arrakis was not always a desert
world, and that the sandworms had been introduced from somewhere else?
Does anyone remember that?
That it had not always been a desert world -- maybe, it stirs
something deep in what I like to call my mind.
But not that sandworms were introduced. But it's been a long time
since I read the novel, so that isn't a definitive answer.
I /do/ remember the History of the Fremen including a stay on the
Prison Planet (Salusa Secundus) before coming to Arrakis.
I also remember Campbell writing that the science which made /Dune/
(well, the first half -- in the magazine it was in two serialized
novels) was some newfangled thing called "ecology".
Not politics. Not human breeding programs. Not travel without moving. Ecology.
On Tue, 12 May 2026 13:34:50 -0700, Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> wrote:
<snippo: the later Dune books>
My guess is that Frank Herbert (the One True Herbert), when doing his
world-building for the original Dune, needed some explanation for why
there were "mentats" and not intelligent computers in his universe, and
invented a "jihad against thinking machines" as a background, without
thinking a whole lot about the backstory.
That would be my guess as well.
Later, when Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson started writing all the
pre-quels to the Dune story (which are absolute garbage, IMHO) they had
to come up with details about the "Butlerian Jihad" and the
Harkonnen-Atreides feud and how the Bene Gesserit got started, and all
that. I tried reading some the prequels and just bounced off as
unbelievable and badly written too.
I was pleasantly unaware of /prequels/ until I read this.
I think I will remain blissfully ignorant of them.
What I would like to know is the origin story of Arrakis itself. I think
it was mentioned somewhere in the original books (maybe in some part
about the planetologist Liet Kynes) that Arrakis was not always a desert
world, and that the sandworms had been introduced from somewhere else?
Does anyone remember that?
That it had not always been a desert world -- maybe, it stirs
something deep in what I like to call my mind.
But not that sandworms were introduced. But it's been a long time
since I read the novel, so that isn't a definitive answer.
I /do/ remember the History of the Fremen including a stay on the
Prison Planet (Salusa Secundus) before coming to Arrakis.
I also remember Campbell writing that the science which made /Dune/
(well, the first half -- in the magazine it was in two serialized
novels) was some newfangled thing called "ecology".
Not politics. Not human breeding programs. Not travel without moving. Ecology.
My guess is that Frank Herbert (the One True Herbert),
Later, when Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson started writing all the pre-quels to the Dune story
Titus G wrote:
On 10/05/2026 08:08, William Hyde wrote:
Titus G wrote:
Nice summary. Dune was one of my three, five star Herbert reads, the
others being Hellstrom's Hive and The Dosadi Experiment. I have now
forgotten the second book, Dune Messiah, which I rated three stars
because there was too much angst and nowhere near the action of Dune. I >>>> haven't had the interest to begin the third.
My sister read the entire series and gave me the books afterwards.ÿ I
recall the third book as being more enjoyable than DM, but afterwards
the fall in quality was steep.ÿ I had to force myself through the last
book.
Whilst I respect your opinion being still slightly gobsmacked by
Robertson Davies, I am content to restrict my Herbert reading to rereads.
For nothing less than serious money will I reread dune four and beyond.
These works are strictly for completists, or those who are utterly
smitten with that universe.
I see that I have one of his lesser novels, "The Santaroga Barrier" to
hand.ÿ I recall it as slightly Simakian, and it might be worth a try.
On 5/13/26 08:52, Paul S Person wrote:and
On Tue, 12 May 2026 13:34:50 -0700, Don_from_AZ
<djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> wrote:
<snippo: the later Dune books>
My guess is that Frank Herbert (the One True Herbert), when doing his
world-building for the original Dune, needed some explanation for why
there were "mentats" and not intelligent computers in his universe,
hadinvented a "jihad against thinking machines" as a background, without
thinking a whole lot about the backstory.
That would be my guess as well.
Later, when Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson started writing all the
pre-quels to the Dune story (which are absolute garbage, IMHO) they
allto come up with details about the "Butlerian Jihad" and the
Harkonnen-Atreides feud and how the Bene Gesserit got started, and
thinkthat. I tried reading some the prequels and just bounced off as
unbelievable and badly written too.
I was pleasantly unaware of /prequels/ until I read this.
I think I will remain blissfully ignorant of them.
What I would like to know is the origin story of Arrakis itself. I
desertit was mentioned somewhere in the original books (maybe in some part
about the planetologist Liet Kynes) that Arrakis was not always a
else?world, and that the sandworms had been introduced from somewhere
withDoes anyone remember that?
That it had not always been a desert world -- maybe, it stirs
something deep in what I like to call my mind.
But not that sandworms were introduced. But it's been a long time
since I read the novel, so that isn't a definitive answer.
I /do/ remember the History of the Fremen including a stay on the
Prison Planet (Salusa Secundus) before coming to Arrakis.
I also remember Campbell writing that the science which made /Dune/
(well, the first half -- in the magazine it was in two serialized
novels) was some newfangled thing called "ecology".
Not politics. Not human breeding programs. Not travel without moving.
Ecology.
Along the path of the serial novels Dune is turned into a normal world
rainfall etc. Sand worms have to be protected.
On 5/13/2026 11:52 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
I also remember Campbell writing that the science which made /Dune/
(well, the first half -- in the magazine it was in two serialized
novels) was some newfangled thing called "ecology".
Not politics. Not human breeding programs. Not travel without moving.
Ecology.
I remember one commentator on 'Dune is an amazing ecological parable' >pointing out that Arrakis is an ecology with only 3 moving parts.
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