• ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt

    From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Wed May 13 19:21:09 2026
    From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable. What if the
    economy crashes? What if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
    things I can answer to. You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
    (not in geography, but in culture.) Which means I?m used to governments
    that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
    account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes. I?ve heard of crashes from grandma. NONE OF THEM
    KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 08:59:12 2026
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable. What if the
    economy crashes? What if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
    things I can answer to. You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
    (not in geography, but in culture.) Which means I?m used to
    governments
    that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes. I?ve heard of crashes from grandma. NONE OF
    THEM
    KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 15:40:19 2026
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    ˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
    economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are
    things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
    (not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to governments that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    She's right.

    And maybe a little bit wrong.


    The German hyperinflation of 1924 did not kill many people. But it did
    wipe out the savings of the middle class, which may have caused them to abandon the old political parties for more radical ones, such as the nazis.

    Though as the nazis only won 2.6% of the vote in the next election of
    1928, I'm not a strong believer in this hypothesis. It took the great depression to really boost their numbers.

    William Hyde


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 15:10:46 2026
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable. What if the
    economy crashes? What if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
    things I can answer to. You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
    (not in geography, but in culture.) Which means I?m used to governments
    that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
    account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes. I?ve heard of crashes from grandma. NONE OF THEM
    KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
    from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 18:22:31 2026
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    ˙From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    ˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
    economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are
    things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
    (not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to governments >>> that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
    account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM
    KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
    from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
    history.

    Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of all
    time was run up by trump in 2020. In terms of GDP the highest since 1945.

    Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
    deal with Covid and it's aftermath. Just as Obama in his first years
    had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

    But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year, we
    see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's 2025
    debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

    The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency. It was squandered by
    Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

    William Hyde


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 22:26:45 2026
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    <snip>

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
    from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Your grasp of history proves insufficient.

    You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
    of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)

    Fiscal Year Deficit (Trillion$)
    2016 $0.585
    2017 $0.665
    2018 $0.779
    2019 $0.984
    2020 $3.132 (Covid-19 Impact)
    2021 $2.772 (Arguably the same)
    2022 $2.375
    2023 $1.695
    2024 $1.833
    2025 $1.700+
    2026 projected to be more than $2.000 trillion

    So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
    the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
    presidency.

    Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
    the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
    pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
    random spending on fountains, ballrooms
    and changing history in the national park system;
    Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
    higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@3:633/10 to All on Thu May 14 17:40:06 2026
    On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    ˙From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    ˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
    economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are
    things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
    (not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to
    governments
    that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
    account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM >>>> KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
    from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined history.

    Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest since 1945.

    Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
    deal with Covid and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first years
    had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

    But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year, we
    see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's 2025
    debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

    The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.˙ It was squandered by
    Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

    Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt and Republicans increase
    it. There are academic papers about it.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 01:33:25 2026
    On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    ˙From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    ˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
    economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are
    things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
    (not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to
    governments
    that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
    account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM >>>> KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
    from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined history.

    Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest since 1945.

    Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
    deal with Covid and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first years
    had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

    But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year, we
    see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's 2025
    debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

    The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.˙ It was squandered by
    Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

    William Hyde

    As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
    like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
    Spanish Flu. Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
    just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

    The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024. Trump would not be
    President for three months.

    And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
    Reduction Act was the worst. The act actually did not spend much money
    until the federal year 2024 and then it went wild with the spending.
    Trump has managed to kill off quite a bit of the act but its expenses
    trail on for trillions of dollars. much more than what was estimated.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act

    I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 11:35:48 2026
    On 2026-05-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves
    comfortable. What if the economy crashes? What
    if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
    things I can answer to. You see, I come from
    a Mediterranean country (not in geography,
    but in culture.) Which means I?m used to
    governments that run their purses like high
    school kids with an unending spending account
    and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes. I?ve heard of
    crashes from grandma. NONE OF THEM KILLED A
    SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win
    control of the House in 2026, they will fix
    the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is
    running now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden
    expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
    to $2 trillion.

    *Probably* because - per one of the many Democrat
    mantras repeated endlessly in hopes that repeating
    something endlessly would magically elevate it to
    reality status - Joe was "sharp as a tack"....

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 11:41:33 2026
    On 2026-05-15, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    ˙From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    ˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>
    ?Well, pull up a rock and make
    yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
    economy crashes?˙ What if our money is
    worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are things I
    can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a
    Mediterranean country (not in geography,
    but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used
    to governments that run their purses like
    high school kids with an unending spending
    account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of
    crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM KILLED
    A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win
    control of the House in 2026, they will fix
    the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA
    is running now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden
    expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
    to $2 trillion.

    Once again you dwell in your own little world
    with it's own imagined history.

    Out here in the real world history shows that
    the highest deficit of all time was run up by
    trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
    since 1945.

    Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame"
    as both presidents had to deal with Covid and
    it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first
    years had to deal with the aftermath of Wall
    street's early 2000s crime spree.

    But if we compare Obama's last year with
    Trump's last pre-covid year, we see that Trump
    had tacked on another hundred billion. And
    Trump's 2025 debt is higher than that of Biden
    in his last three years.

    The last surplus was during Clinton's
    presidency.˙ It was squandered by Bush Jr,
    and since then you've never come close to
    a surplus.

    Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
    and Republicans increase it. There are academic
    papers about it.

    And yet you couldn't site so much as *one*....

    And if/when you do, we'll discover its author(s)
    is(are) are anything and everything but unbiased.

    <sigh>

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 08:09:31 2026


    On 5/14/26 23:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    ˙From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    ˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>
    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
    economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are >>>>> things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to
    governments
    that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >>>>> account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM >>>>> KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
    now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
    deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
    history.

    Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
    all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
    since 1945.

    Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
    deal with Covid and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first years
    had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

    But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year,
    we see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's
    2025 debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

    The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.˙ It was squandered
    by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

    William Hyde

    As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
    like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
    Spanish Flu.˙ Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
    just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

    The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024.˙ Trump would not be
    President for three months.

    And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
    Reduction Act was the worst.˙ The act actually did not spend much money until the federal year 2024 and then it went wild with the spending.
    Trump has managed to kill off quite a bit of the act but its expenses
    trail on for trillions of dollars. much more than what was estimated.
    ˙˙ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act

    I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.

    Lynn

    Well Covid-19 is a really bad disease and killed lots of people
    who ignored precautions that simply seemed sensible to people
    with nursing experience. It has also left a sizable population of
    permanently impaired persons. I know one at least.
    As for the choice of silly legislation Trump's tax cuts for the
    most well off lead the list.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 15:37:45 2026
    Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> writes:


    On 5/14/26 23:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:


    <snip fearmongering clickbait>

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
    now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
    deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
    history.

    Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
    all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
    since 1945.

    <snpi>

    As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
    like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
    Spanish Flu.˙ Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
    just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now
    appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

    And has been mentioned, the federal deficit _decreased_ every single
    year of the Biden presidency, directly countering your
    statement that it increased every year.

    You lied.


    The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024.˙ Trump would not be
    President for three months.

    And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
    Reduction Act was the worst.

    The IRA was not "the worst". It was an excellent program whose
    goals (moving towards clean energy and fixing neglected infrastructure)
    are absolutely necessary and essential for the future success
    of this nation. Trump's war on renewable energy will be his
    lasting legacy, and not in a good way.


    I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.

    Of course, it is congress that creates legislation, not
    the president.

    The current congress has done absolutely _nothing_ for
    for the last 18 months, other than screwing americans
    via the big ugly bill.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 09:13:16 2026
    On Thu, 14 May 2026 15:10:46 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/

    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable. What if the
    economy crashes? What if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
    things I can answer to. You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
    (not in geography, but in culture.) Which means I?m used to
    governments
    that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
    account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes. I?ve heard of crashes from grandma. NONE
    OF THEM
    KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
    now?

    I would rather they didn't, as they will then be blamed for Trump's misbehavior.

    It would be better for the country for the Republicans to in control
    of Congress through 2030 so that they may reap the full reward of
    supporting and enabling Trump.

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
    from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    And that Reagan nearly doubled the National Debt in four years. <https://www.us-debt-clock.com/data/debt-by-year>

    And he was a Republican, you know.

    That said, this is indeed a bipartisan problem. With a clear
    bipartisan insistence on keeping it growing.

    Hence my assertion that we need two /new/ parties.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 09:25:17 2026
    On Thu, 14 May 2026 17:40:06 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:

    <snippo>

    The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.? It was squandered
    by
    Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

    Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt and Republicans increase

    it. There are academic papers about it.

    If we consult <https://www.us-debt-clock.com/data/debt-by-year>, it is
    possible to see that reducing the National Debt since 2001. It is true
    that Bill Clinton was the last fiscally conservative President, of
    either Party -- but only in his second term.

    Obama did manage to reduce the deficits some years after the Great
    Recession, and Trump continued the lower level until the Pandemic blew
    the roof off. Biden reduced them from the Pandemic heights, but then
    they grew again in his last two years.

    Reagan was /very/ clear that he wanted to destroy Social Security and
    that increasing the National Debt was the way to do it. Trump now
    appears to be starting to move to achieve that goal, starting with Medicare/Medicaid and SNAP.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 16:36:19 2026
    On 2026-05-15, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    Hence my assertion that we need two /new/
    parties.

    How silly, after all this time seeing that two
    ultimately doesn't work.

    How about shooting for the real solution that
    would lead to there being only one due to the
    absence of disagreement for seeing - er,
    re-presenting - reality similarly?

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 09:37:22 2026
    On Fri, 15 May 2026 01:33:25 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snippo mucho wrangling>

    As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
    like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
    Spanish Flu. Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
    just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now >appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

    Says who?

    AFAIK, the effects of the vaccine were:
    1. If you got COVID, you were significantly less likely to have to be hospitalized.
    2. If you were hospitalized (for COVID), you were significantly less
    likely to die from it.

    And the stats from States that did and did not emphasize getting the
    vaccine show which had the largest number of deaths from the disease.

    I think you have been drinking anti-vax koolaide.

    The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024. Trump would not be
    President for three months.

    This is normal. That is why
    <https://www.us-debt-clock.com/data/debt-by-year> shows a Budget
    Surplus for 2001: it was actually the last surplus of Bill Clinton.

    But your point is well-taken: we haven't yet seen what the Trump 2nd
    term deficits will look like, given his propensity for attacking other countries and then asking for a lot of money to rebuild the weapon
    stockpiles he has depleted.

    And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
    Reduction Act was the worst. The act actually did not spend much money >until the federal year 2024 and then it went wild with the spending.
    Trump has managed to kill off quite a bit of the act but its expenses
    trail on for trillions of dollars. much more than what was estimated.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act

    Brave words from someone who clearly never read the article.

    But Trump doesn't care about inflation. Why should he? It doesn't
    affect /him/ or 1%-ers generally, and that's the maximum extent of his
    concern.

    Note that I am not saying that his concern actually extends even one
    nanometer beyond himself. I am merely describing the outermost
    possible boundary.

    I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.

    And I am sure each of them would be as idiotic as that one was.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 09:41:02 2026
    On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:26:45 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    <snip>

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
    now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit >>from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Your grasp of history proves insufficient.

    You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
    of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)

    Fiscal Year Deficit (Trillion$)
    2016 $0.585
    2017 $0.665
    2018 $0.779
    2019 $0.984
    2020 $3.132 (Covid-19 Impact)
    2021 $2.772 (Arguably the same)
    2022 $2.375
    2023 $1.695
    2024 $1.833
    2025 $1.700+
    2026 projected to be more than $2.000 trillion

    So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
    the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
    presidency.

    Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
    the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
    pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
    random spending on fountains, ballrooms
    and changing history in the national park system;
    Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
    higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.

    Or we can just raise the tax rates on the higher tax brackets and
    start turning the ship around.

    This is the only way to proceed that doesn't end violently, I suspect.

    Sadly, it is hard to see how it could be done peacefully. We appear to
    be reaching a crisis point.

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 14:55:34 2026
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    ˙From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    ˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>
    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
    economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are >>>>> things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to
    governments
    that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >>>>> account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM >>>>> KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
    now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
    deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
    history.

    Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
    all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
    since 1945.

    Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
    deal with Covid and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first years
    had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

    But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year,
    we see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's
    2025 debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

    The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.˙ It was squandered
    by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

    William Hyde

    As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
    like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
    Spanish Flu.˙ Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine


    Not true.


    just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

    Also not true. The high US death total relative to many other countries
    came from lack of action, not from the one good action taken.

    Anyway, I gave Trump and Biden a pass for covid-related debt. We have certainly had the same problem in Canada.

    But Trump ran a deficit before Covid that was well above Obama's. He is
    not remotely a fiscal conservative.


    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 15:01:53 2026
    Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:26:45 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    <snip>

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now? >>>
    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
    from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Your grasp of history proves insufficient.

    You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
    of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)

    Fiscal Year Deficit (Trillion$)
    2016 $0.585
    2017 $0.665
    2018 $0.779
    2019 $0.984
    2020 $3.132 (Covid-19 Impact)
    2021 $2.772 (Arguably the same)
    2022 $2.375
    2023 $1.695
    2024 $1.833
    2025 $1.700+
    2026 projected to be more than $2.000 trillion

    So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
    the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
    presidency.

    Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
    the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
    pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
    random spending on fountains, ballrooms
    and changing history in the national park system;
    Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
    higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.

    Or we can just raise the tax rates on the higher tax brackets and
    start turning the ship around.

    It worked before.

    Clinton's surplus depended on a very good economy, but also two tax increases, one by Bush the elder and one by Clinton.

    Both presidents were reviled for them, and arguably it cost Bush his reelection.


    Credit to both men for a courageous decision.

    William Hyde


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 12:38:20 2026


    On 5/15/26 11:55, William Hyde wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    ˙From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    ˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>>
    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the >>>>>> economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are >>>>>> things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to
    governments
    that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >>>>>> account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF >>>>>> THEM
    KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
    now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
    deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
    history.

    Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
    all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
    since 1945.

    Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
    deal with Covid and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first years
    had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree. >>>
    But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year,
    we see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's
    2025 debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

    The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.˙ It was squandered
    by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

    William Hyde

    As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
    like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
    Spanish Flu.˙ Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine


    Not true.


    just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now
    appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

    I do not think he spent more than a Billion.
    The vaccine was available before he left office but he had no realistic plan to distribute it to more than his small circle of friends.
    It killed no one that I know of but some people had conditions that either the virus killed or potentiated to kill them. People you know can
    be walking around for years with heart conditions that only become
    apparent under stress.

    A few foolish people died because they injected bleach according
    to Trump's nonsense and others wasted money on Ivermectin which
    only made them sicker. Many rejected mask wearing in public and may
    have gotten infected. Some died in hospitals as they denied that
    Covid-19 was a real disease.


    Also not true.˙ The high US death total relative to many other countries came from lack of action, not from the one good action taken.

    Anyway, I gave Trump and Biden a pass for covid-related debt. We have certainly had the same problem in Canada.

    But Trump ran a deficit before Covid that was well above Obama's. He is
    not remotely a fiscal conservative.

    He only wants to save the money of people like himself ,selfish dolts who have lucked into a money stream that they use to put themselves
    above poorer folks. His tax cuts to the well-off were predicted to
    produce continuing deficits within a few years.



    William Hyde

    bliss - who would rather be reading about some science fiction or
    even total fantasy than orange idiot's politics.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 12:39:21 2026


    On 5/15/26 12:01, William Hyde wrote:
    Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:26:45 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    ˙ <snip>

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
    now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
    from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Your grasp of history proves insufficient.

    You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
    of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)

    ˙ Fiscal Year˙˙˙˙˙ Deficit (Trillion$)
    ˙˙˙ 2016˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $0.585
    ˙˙˙ 2017˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $0.665
    ˙˙˙ 2018˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $0.779
    ˙˙˙ 2019˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $0.984
    ˙˙˙ 2020˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $3.132˙ (Covid-19 Impact)
    ˙˙˙ 2021˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $2.772˙ (Arguably the same)
    ˙˙˙ 2022˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $2.375
    ˙˙˙ 2023˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $1.695
    ˙˙˙ 2024˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $1.833
    ˙˙˙ 2025˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $1.700+
    ˙˙˙ 2026˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ projected to be more than $2.000 trillion

    So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
    the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
    presidency.

    Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
    the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
    pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
    random spending on fountains, ballrooms
    and changing history in the national park system;
    Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
    higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.

    Or we can just raise the tax rates on the higher tax brackets and
    start turning the ship around.

    It worked before.

    Clinton's surplus depended on a˙ very good economy, but also two tax increases, one by Bush the elder and one by Clinton.

    Both presidents were reviled for them, and arguably it cost Bush his reelection.


    Credit to both men for a courageous decision.

    William Hyde

    Hear! Hear!

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 17:06:16 2026
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit=20 >>from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    And that Reagan nearly doubled the National Debt in four years. ><https://www.us-debt-clock.com/data/debt-by-year>

    Reagan pretty much started the Republicans believing that debt was okay.
    Before Reagan decided to put the country into debt to outspend the
    Soviet Union (a tactic which worked pretty well, to be honest), the Republicans were strongly against increasing debt in any way. But now
    they seem not to be.

    That said, this is indeed a bipartisan problem. With a clear
    bipartisan insistence on keeping it growing.

    This is true although I will give some credit to Pres. Clinton for making efforts to improve matters.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 21:31:02 2026
    On 5/15/2026 7:41 AM, oldernow wrote:
    On 2026-05-15, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    ˙From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    ˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>>
    ?Well, pull up a rock and make
    yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
    economy crashes?˙ What if our money is
    worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are things I
    can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a
    Mediterranean country (not in geography,
    but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used
    to governments that run their purses like
    high school kids with an unending spending
    account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of
    crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM KILLED
    A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win
    control of the House in 2026, they will fix
    the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA
    is running now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden
    expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
    to $2 trillion.

    Once again you dwell in your own little world
    with it's own imagined history.

    Out here in the real world history shows that
    the highest deficit of all time was run up by
    trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
    since 1945.

    Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame"
    as both presidents had to deal with Covid and
    it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first
    years had to deal with the aftermath of Wall
    street's early 2000s crime spree.

    But if we compare Obama's last year with
    Trump's last pre-covid year, we see that Trump
    had tacked on another hundred billion. And
    Trump's 2025 debt is higher than that of Biden
    in his last three years.

    The last surplus was during Clinton's
    presidency.˙ It was squandered by Bush Jr,
    and since then you've never come close to
    a surplus.

    Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
    and Republicans increase it. There are academic
    papers about it.

    And yet you couldn't site so much as *one*....

    And if/when you do, we'll discover its author(s)
    is(are) are anything and everything but unbiased.

    <sigh>

    The problem with asking to be shown the receipts is that
    sometimes people have them.

    Source: https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225

    President Billions+ %+ Notes
    Nixon 121 34
    Ford 87 16
    Carter 178 30
    Reagan 1604 161 2 terms
    GHW Bush 1207 42
    Clinton 1262 29 peace dividend
    GW Bush 4217 72 war on terror
    Obama 8438 71 2 terms
    Trump 1 8081 40 covid
    Biden 9208 32 covid
    Trump 2 ~4000 so far

    The last figure is since 2024, according to
    usdebtclock.org

    pt


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris Thompson@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 15 22:29:21 2026
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    ˙From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    ˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>
    ?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
    economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are >>>>> things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to
    governments
    that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >>>>> account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM >>>>> KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
    now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
    deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
    history.

    Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
    all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
    since 1945.

    Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
    deal with Covid and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first years
    had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

    But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year,
    we see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's
    2025 debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.

    The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.˙ It was squandered
    by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.

    William Hyde

    As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
    like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
    Spanish Flu.˙ Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
    just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now appearing to have killed more people than it cured.

    I've spent the last 30 years working in immunology and microbiology laboratories and I can categorically and without any hyperbole or doubt
    state that you are full of shit. Shut the fuck up about things of which
    you're ignorant. You're fucking killing people with that bullshit.

    Chris



    The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024.˙ Trump would not be
    President for three months.

    And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
    Reduction Act was the worst.˙ The act actually did not spend much money until the federal year 2024 and then it went wild with the spending.
    Trump has managed to kill off quite a bit of the act but its expenses
    trail on for trillions of dollars. much more than what was estimated.
    ˙˙ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act

    I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.

    Lynn



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 03:06:01 2026
    On 2026-05-16, Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 5/15/2026 7:41 AM, oldernow wrote:
    On 2026-05-15, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    ˙From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    ˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>>>
    ?Well, pull up a rock and make
    yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
    economy crashes?˙ What if our money is
    worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are things I
    can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a
    Mediterranean country (not in geography,
    but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used
    to governments that run their purses like
    high school kids with an unending spending
    account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of
    crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM KILLED
    A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win
    control of the House in 2026, they will fix
    the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA
    is running now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden
    expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
    to $2 trillion.

    Once again you dwell in your own little world
    with it's own imagined history.

    Out here in the real world history shows that
    the highest deficit of all time was run up by
    trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
    since 1945.

    Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame"
    as both presidents had to deal with Covid and
    it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first
    years had to deal with the aftermath of Wall
    street's early 2000s crime spree.

    But if we compare Obama's last year with
    Trump's last pre-covid year, we see that Trump
    had tacked on another hundred billion. And
    Trump's 2025 debt is higher than that of Biden
    in his last three years.

    The last surplus was during Clinton's
    presidency.˙ It was squandered by Bush Jr,
    and since then you've never come close to
    a surplus.

    Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
    and Republicans increase it. There are academic
    papers about it.

    And yet you couldn't site so much as *one*....

    And if/when you do, we'll discover its author(s)
    is(are) are anything and everything but unbiased.

    <sigh>

    The problem with asking to be shown the receipts is that
    sometimes people have them.

    Source: https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225

    President Billions+ %+ Notes
    Nixon 121 34
    Ford 87 16
    Carter 178 30
    Reagan 1604 161 2 terms
    GHW Bush 1207 42
    Clinton 1262 29 peace dividend
    GW Bush 4217 72 war on terror
    Obama 8438 71 2 terms
    Trump 1 8081 40 covid
    Biden 9208 32 covid
    Trump 2 ~4000 so far

    The last figure is since 2024, according to
    usdebtclock.org

    So, let's see... you claimed:

    Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
    and Republicans increase it. There are academic
    papers about it.

    I went to the source you provided:

    https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225

    Not sure why you didn't simply copy/paste the
    table I see when I go there, but here 'tis
    (I tacked on a party affiliation column since
    your claim was comparing Democrat and Republican
    presidents):

    President Total change % change ----------------------------------------------------
    Franklin D. Roosevelt $178,464,714,660.98 791.8% D
    Woodrow Wilson $23,036,251,492.50 789.9% D
    Ronald Reagan $1,604,482,712,041.16 160.8% R
    George W. Bush $4,217,261,484,712.34 72.6% R
    Barack Obama $8,437,973,332,966.05 70.9% D
    George H. W. Bush $1,207,189,695,334.34 42.3% R
    Donald Trump (term 1) $8,081,116,233,570.88 39.7% R
    Richard Nixon $121,339,561,890.14 34.3% R
    Joe Biden $9,208,634,924,886.93 32.4% D
    Jimmy Carter $178,464,714,660.98 29.9% D
    Bill Clinton $1,262,689,326,747.48 28.6% D
    Theodore Roosevelt $483,479,337.65 22.6% R
    Gerald Ford $87,244,000,000.00 16.4% R
    Herbert Hoover $2,555,913,960.03 15.1% R
    Lyndon B. Johnson $35,865,507,168.58 11.5% D
    William Howard Taft $228,827,633.12 8.7% R
    Dwight D. Eisenhower $20,259,699,209.80 7.6% R
    John F. Kennedy $16,888,694,386.36 5.8% D
    Donald Trump (term 2) $1,054,778,423,857.20 2.8% R
    Harry S. Truman $422,991,375.50 0.2% D
    Warren G. Harding -$1,627,743,187.18 -6.8% R
    Calvin Coolidge -$3,646,519,788.06 -17.2% R

    What I see are 9 Democrat president lines, and
    13 Republican (Trump represents two of those
    because his terms are split in the table).

    Now... I've no idea whether simply adding the
    values means anything, because I didn't see in
    the source whether the numbers are adjusted for
    inflation, which might mean that the table might
    just be a big barrel of apples and oranges. But
    assuming totaling the numbers for Democrat
    presidents and Republican presidents possibly
    means something, the totals I get are:

    Total change % change
    $19,342,440,458,345.00 1761.0% D
    $16,391,665,768,571.00 398.9% R

    Looks to me like 9 Democrats had a bigger percent
    change over the years *and* a bigger total change
    (dollars) than 12 Republican presidents. Said
    another way, only 9 Democrat presidents managed
    to increase the debt by roughly $3 trillion more
    than 12 Republican presidents.

    So.... what was it you were trying to prove
    again? And why didn't you include all the
    presidents in that table? Did you think your
    audience was going to miss something like
    that? I mean, we're not *all* "Bobbie Sellers"
    grade newsgroup participants.... <coughs>

    Again, I don't know if totaling those numbers
    means anything. But doing so clearly shows that
    less Democrat presidents managed to run up the
    national debt by $3 trillion more than did more
    Republican presidents.

    Looks to me like your own source proves your
    "Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
    and Republicans increase it. There are academic
    papers about it." assertion wrong....

    Next! ;-)

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 03:14:53 2026
    On 2026-05-16, Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    ˙From 2019:

    ?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
    ˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>>
    ?Well, pull up a rock and make
    yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
    economy crashes?˙ What if our money is
    worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are things I
    can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a
    Mediterranean country (not in geography,
    but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used
    to governments that run their purses like
    high school kids with an unending spending
    account and addicted to meth.?

    ?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of
    crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM KILLED
    A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?

    Interesting perspective.

    Lynn

    And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win
    control of the House in 2026, they will fix
    the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA
    is running now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden
    expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
    to $2 trillion.

    Once again you dwell in your own little world
    with it's own imagined history.

    Out here in the real world history shows that
    the highest deficit of all time was run up by
    trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
    since 1945.

    Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame"
    as both presidents had to deal with Covid
    and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his
    first years had to deal with the aftermath
    of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.

    But if we compare Obama's last year with
    Trump's last pre-covid year, we see that Trump
    had tacked on another hundred billion. And
    Trump's 2025 debt is higher than that of
    Biden in his last three years.

    The last surplus was during Clinton's
    presidency.˙ It was squandered by Bush Jr,
    and since then you've never come close to
    a surplus.

    William Hyde

    As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread
    across the entire planet like wildfire and we
    thought it was a really bad disease like the
    Spanish Flu.˙ Trump spent hundreds of billions
    of dollars on a vaccine just to come up with
    a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is
    now appearing to have killed more people than
    it cured.

    I've spent the last 30 years working in
    immunology and microbiology laboratories and I
    can categorically and without any hyperbole or
    doubt state that you are full of shit. Shut
    the fuck up about things of which you're
    ignorant. You're fucking killing people with
    that bullshit.

    Isn't it just like someone protesting too much
    that they don't need hyperbole to make a point
    to go on to conduct a master class on anger
    and profanity hyperbole....

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From James Nicoll@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 13:23:19 2026
    In article <10u8kq3$mdi6$1@dont-email.me>,
    Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:

    (right-wing health nonsense deleted, but it justified the response
    below)

    I've spent the last 30 years working in immunology and microbiology >laboratories and I can categorically and without any hyperbole or doubt >state that you are full of shit. Shut the fuck up about things of which >you're ignorant. You're fucking killing people with that bullshit.

    So, in 2022 I had the joy of encouraging people at UW to follow the
    covid guidelines. This was very educational. I honestly don't know
    how people think masks work, because however that is, it doesn't
    seem to involve airflow.

    In general, it seemed your average neolithic mammoth-stabber had
    about as firm a grasp on disease theory as the people I encountered
    on a daily basis. What made it worse was I was working in the Applied
    Health Sciences building.

    (I also noticed someone had added two small embellishments to the
    building that made it impossible for anyone in a wheelchair to
    get from one end of it to the other)


    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 08:53:34 2026
    On Fri, 15 May 2026 14:55:34 -0400, William Hyde
    <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:


    <snippo: deficits and national debt, by President>

    But Trump ran a deficit before Covid that was well above Obama's. He is
    not remotely a fiscal conservative.

    It used to be so simple:
    -- want more spending? vote Democratic and pay the resulting taxes
    ("tax and spend")
    -- want less spending? vote Republican ("fiscally conservative")

    Then it changed:
    -- want more spending? vote Democratic and pay the resulting taxes
    ("tax and spend")
    -- want more spending without taxes? vote Republican ("spend and
    spend")

    Now it is simple again:
    -- want more spending without taxes? vote for either ("spend and
    spend")

    This affects the National Debt as well:
    --faced with the dread possibility of reducing the National Debt, the Republicans will give another tax break to their good friends, the
    1%-ers
    --faced with the possibility of reducing the National Debt, the
    Democrats will immediately find something else to spend the money on

    And /that/, in a nutshell is where we are right now.

    And why I think we need two new parties, both in the center, one a bit
    to the left, the other a bit to the right, both willing to talk to
    each other for the good of the country.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 09:02:44 2026
    On Sat, 16 May 2026 13:23:19 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <10u8kq3$mdi6$1@dont-email.me>,
    Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:

    (right-wing health nonsense deleted, but it justified the response
    below)

    I've spent the last 30 years working in immunology and microbiology >>laboratories and I can categorically and without any hyperbole or doubt

    state that you are full of shit. Shut the fuck up about things of which

    you're ignorant. You're fucking killing people with that bullshit.

    So, in 2022 I had the joy of encouraging people at UW to follow the
    covid guidelines. This was very educational. I honestly don't know
    how people think masks work, because however that is, it doesn't
    seem to involve airflow.

    I suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
    Seattle), but some other UW.

    My guess is that they think they are fashion accessories. That is,
    they wear them or not depending on what is "in" in their subculture.

    In general, it seemed your average neolithic mammoth-stabber had
    about as firm a grasp on disease theory as the people I encountered
    on a daily basis. What made it worse was I was working in the Applied
    Health Sciences building.

    But were they Applied Health scientists? Or were they, say, janitors?

    (I also noticed someone had added two small embellishments to the
    building that made it impossible for anyone in a wheelchair to
    get from one end of it to the other)

    Trump would be so proud: anti-DEI at work!

    Alternately:
    Our UW has a building so confusing that, at least when it was new, it
    could only be navigated by explicit map including which entrance would
    allow you to find your destination. IIRC, it was possible to go from
    floor 5 to floor 3 simply by stepping while in a level hallway from
    one part of the building to another.

    I don't think wheelchairs were in that building's builders' minds
    either.

    Yes, it was built on a hill. This is Seattle: we have plenty of hills.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 09:07:20 2026
    On Fri, 15 May 2026 15:01:53 -0400, William Hyde
    <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snippo: raising taxes>

    It worked before.

    Clinton's surplus depended on a very good economy, but also two tax >increases, one by Bush the elder and one by Clinton.

    Both presidents were reviled for them, and arguably it cost Bush his >reelection.

    It probably fed into it, but "It's the economy, stupid!" was also a
    factor.

    The economy as opposed to his sucessful liberation of Kuwait from
    Iraq.

    Credit to both men for a courageous decision.

    Indeed.

    But where will we find others like them? Not among todays aging
    Boomers, I suspect.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Robert Woodward@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 10:22:31 2026
    In article <cr4h0ll05q6lmg83oe85e34e5vl0br0j80@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    On Sat, 16 May 2026 13:23:19 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <10u8kq3$mdi6$1@dont-email.me>,
    Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:

    (right-wing health nonsense deleted, but it justified the response
    below)

    I've spent the last 30 years working in immunology and microbiology >>laboratories and I can categorically and without any hyperbole or doubt >>state that you are full of shit. Shut the fuck up about things of which >>you're ignorant. You're fucking killing people with that bullshit.

    So, in 2022 I had the joy of encouraging people at UW to follow the
    covid guidelines. This was very educational. I honestly don't know
    how people think masks work, because however that is, it doesn't
    seem to involve airflow.

    I suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
    Seattle), but some other UW.


    University of Waterloo (in Waterloo, Ontario)

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. -------------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 14:13:56 2026
    On 5/14/2026 5:26 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    <snip>

    So are the mid-terms.

    So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
    they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?

    History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit >>from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.

    Your grasp of history proves insufficient.

    You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
    of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)

    Fiscal Year Deficit (Trillion$)
    2016 $0.585
    2017 $0.665
    2018 $0.779
    2019 $0.984
    2020 $3.132 (Covid-19 Impact)
    2021 $2.772 (Arguably the same)
    2022 $2.375
    2023 $1.695
    2024 $1.833
    2025 $1.700+
    2026 projected to be more than $2.000 trillion

    So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
    the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
    presidency.

    Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
    the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
    pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
    random spending on fountains, ballrooms
    and changing history in the national park system;
    Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
    higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.

    Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going
    on in the USA right now.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From James Nicoll@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 21:53:59 2026
    In article <cr4h0ll05q6lmg83oe85e34e5vl0br0j80@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 May 2026 13:23:19 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    (I also noticed someone had added two small embellishments to the
    building that made it impossible for anyone in a wheelchair to
    get from one end of it to the other)

    Trump would be so proud: anti-DEI at work!

    Alternately:
    Our UW has a building so confusing that, at least when it was new, it
    could only be navigated by explicit map including which entrance would
    allow you to find your destination. IIRC, it was possible to go from
    floor 5 to floor 3 simply by stepping while in a level hallway from
    one part of the building to another.

    My UW has the psych building. Legend has it is supposed to resemble
    a brain. The layout is confusing enough profs who teach in it get
    lost.

    I don't think wheelchairs were in that building's builders' minds
    either.

    40 years ago, one UW building, which legend said was designed
    by an architect offended by accessibility requirements, had
    a pair of doors enclosing a stretch of corridor. On their own,
    they met the legal requirements. However, both opened into
    the stretch of corridor and neither could be opened by someone
    in a wheelchair from the enclosed stretch. Lobster trap.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 16 20:47:46 2026
    James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <cr4h0ll05q6lmg83oe85e34e5vl0br0j80@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 May 2026 13:23:19 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    (I also noticed someone had added two small embellishments to the
    building that made it impossible for anyone in a wheelchair to
    get from one end of it to the other)

    Trump would be so proud: anti-DEI at work!

    Alternately:
    Our UW has a building so confusing that, at least when it was new, it
    could only be navigated by explicit map including which entrance would
    allow you to find your destination. IIRC, it was possible to go from
    floor 5 to floor 3 simply by stepping while in a level hallway from
    one part of the building to another.

    My UW has the psych building. Legend has it is supposed to resemble
    a brain. The layout is confusing enough profs who teach in it get
    lost.

    I don't think wheelchairs were in that building's builders' minds
    either.

    40 years ago, one UW building, which legend said was designed
    by an architect offended by accessibility requirements, had
    a pair of doors enclosing a stretch of corridor. On their own,
    they met the legal requirements. However, both opened into
    the stretch of corridor and neither could be opened by someone
    in a wheelchair from the enclosed stretch. Lobster trap.

    Halifax has an above-street crossing in an area with a heavy slope
    towards the harbour. Very convenient for people who have trouble
    negotiating a steep slope, especially in winter.

    You enter through a mall facing the lower street, take an elevator up a
    few floors, and get off. Ahead of you is a gently sloping ramp that
    leads to the above-ground corridor. You roll halfway along the corridor
    to encounter ... a flight of stairs.

    Same architect?


    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 17 10:47:55 2026
    On 2026-05-16, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    And why I think we need two new parties,
    both in the center, one a bit to the left,
    the other a bit to the right, both willing to
    talk to each other for the good of the country.

    You're deluded again. There are no
    parties. There are people acting out their
    selfish "free-willed" individualities in ways
    that in their self-centric minds delivers them
    the most positive for the least negative, and
    seeming "parties" and their seeming natures
    are emergent properties of the mathematical
    integral of all of them.

    There is no such thing has selfish "free-willed"
    individuals designing parties with levels of
    principles (in *practice*, not merely in word)
    greater than the sum total of their individual
    principles (in *practice*, not merely in
    word). You're somehow under the impression
    that a group of assholes will magically deliver
    non-asshole results.

    *Wrong*.

    Once again, people jockey for positioning in
    whatever situation is available to deliver
    what they consider the biggest overall win
    for themselves, others mostly be damned -
    or at very best "meh'd".

    Reality does the math (the integral of the
    behaviors of all those mentally ill automatons),
    And here we are.

    The only change possible in the direction
    you wishfully hope for is people independently
    (because self-centered be-ings always act *only*
    in their best interest) concluding that maybe
    there's something haywire with their be-ing,
    and that it could somehow be best for them to
    trigger change at essence level.

    That happens only very rarely, and when it does
    the assholes they're surrounded by are quick
    to belittle and drive them from the herd with
    vigor and zeal - killfile them, if you will -
    including in the most permanent possible sense
    if their collective humiliation-based fear over
    being confronted with a be-ing far better than
    them rises to a certain level.

    It's not that the reality math is going to
    be ruthless, but that the ruthlessness of
    self-centered assholes *themselves* will destroy
    the constituent assholes without mercy.

    You're witnessing the beginnings of it.

    Hold on tight, because the person in the
    mirror is coming for you....

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 17 18:53:21 2026
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

    Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going
    on in the USA right now.

    WTF are you talking about?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 17 17:26:32 2026


    On 5/17/26 11:53, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

    Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going
    on in the USA right now.

    WTF are you talking about?

    Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very Well Off for
    less taxation and maintaining all the amenities of a semi-civilized society such as police to protect their wealth, highways to travel as they please, prisons to lock up all those who deviate from their idea of proper
    ideation and behavior. Such as Democratic party members, others,
    independent voters who value the Constitution over the Orange Maniac, Transgender children who defy their logic and buttoned down bronze
    age values, all the LBGTQ+ crew and their allies.
    But I bet, considering it is Lynn ,it is pesky people who insist on breathing air that is not filled with toxic fumes which will result in
    in more heat deaths of persons living in Temperate zones.
    Or maybe it is people who think that gasoline should be sold
    at truely reasonable prices as in Europe at about $2.58/Liter.
    That was the highest price i could find for my remark in Denmark.
    That takes in some of the side effects of the nasty petroleum
    product.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Mon May 18 09:00:34 2026
    Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

    Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going >>on in the USA right now.

    WTF are you talking about?

    Well, let's say you own a football franchise.... local governments will
    compete with one another to give you money to build a new stadium. It's
    free goods being handed to you by the government! So you take the mmoney, build the stadium, and then move somewhere else in a couple years.

    You can do this with data centers and factories too! Just take the free
    money and run away with it!

    When you suggest moving your operation into a place they start offering free stuff! Then when you suggest moving out they start offering more free stuff! And the taxpayers pay for it without complaining! It's like running a big
    hose into the taxpayer's pocket and pumping out money!
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Mon May 18 14:09:52 2026
    On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

    Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
    Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
    the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
    as police to protect their wealth, highways to
    travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
    those who deviate from their idea of proper
    ideation and behavior.

    It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
    are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
    estate in life.

    If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
    Or...?

    Such as Democratic party members, others,
    independent voters who value the Constitution
    over the Orange Maniac, Transgender children who
    defy their logic and buttoned down bronze age
    values, all the LBGTQ+ crew and their allies.

    A hallmark of "liberals" seems to be their
    endless classifications - aka labeling -
    of others. It can't just be "people", oh
    noes! It's gotta be this kind of person,
    that kind of person, and so on ad
    nauseam.

    But I bet, considering it is Lynn ,it is pesky
    people who insist on breathing air that is
    not filled with toxic fumes which will result
    in in more heat deaths of persons living in
    Temperate zones.

    Nobody wants that, but there is disagreement on
    whether practices lead to such, or are closer
    to the virtue signaling conspiracy theory
    theatrics end of the spectrum.

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Mon May 18 14:50:52 2026
    On 2026-05-18, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

    Yup, there is infinite demand for free
    goods. And that is what is going on in the
    USA right now.

    WTF are you talking about?

    Well, let's say you own a football
    franchise.... local governments will compete
    with one another to give you money to build a
    new stadium. It's free goods being handed to
    you by the government! So you take the mmoney,
    build the stadium, and then move somewhere else
    in a couple years.

    You can do this with data centers and factories
    too! Just take the free money and run away
    with it!

    When you suggest moving your operation into
    a place they start offering free stuff! Then
    when you suggest moving out they start offering
    more free stuff! And the taxpayers pay for it
    without complaining! It's like running a big
    hose into the taxpayer's pocket and pumping
    out money!

    Okay. We get that that's happening. In
    exclamation marks even (oh my!).

    Now... *why* is that happening?

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Mon May 18 08:16:33 2026
    On Sun, 17 May 2026 18:53:21 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

    Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is
    going
    on in the USA right now.

    WTF are you talking about?

    He's trying to pretend to himself that bottomless deficits are
    something everybody wants.

    This is because his claim that they (and the National Debt) are solely
    the responsibility of the Democrats has collapsed.

    He is hoping that everbody wanting this will somehow excuse the
    Republicans for their share of the blame.

    And the retribution, when it arrives.

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Mon May 18 18:54:07 2026
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 17 May 2026 18:53:21 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    WTF are you talking about?

    He's trying to pretend to himself that bottomless deficits are
    something everybody wants.

    It sure sounds to me like they are something both political parties want,
    or else we would have paid the debts from the Vietnam war back long ago.
    And "everybody" voting seems to be more or less happy about it.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Mon May 18 18:58:52 2026
    On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
    On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

    Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
    Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
    the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
    as police to protect their wealth, highways to
    travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
    those who deviate from their idea of proper
    ideation and behavior.

    It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
    are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
    estate in life.

    If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
    Or...?
    ...

    Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.

    She wants everyone to be the same and poor.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Mon May 18 18:59:43 2026
    On 5/17/2026 1:53 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

    Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going
    on in the USA right now.

    WTF are you talking about?

    You are foolish if you really do not not know what I am talking about.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Mon May 18 18:15:09 2026


    On 5/18/26 16:58, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
    On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

    Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
    Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
    the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
    as police to protect their wealth, highways to
    travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
    those who deviate from their idea of proper
    ideation and behavior.

    It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
    are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
    estate in life.

    If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
    Or...?
    ...

    Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.

    She wants everyone to be the same and poor.

    Lynn


    No I want every person to have enough. Presently I have
    a bit less than enough but I can still get by. I see lots of people
    who are much worse off than myself and maybe even if they
    had what I have economically they might not get by as well
    as I do.

    That I get by as well as I do is because I have other than
    purely economic resources. I have mentioned before that I
    was strongly influenced by my mother and by my step-father
    as they both lived thru the Great Depression and step-father
    was a striver who owned and managed serially a farm, another
    farm, a rice farm, two different restaurants and was a jack of
    all the trades as he had a handy book that explained them in
    the vernacular of the 1940s. Anyway we lived most of my
    childhood on the cheap for the next attempt to climb out
    of the class, whatever it was in the 1950s. So I cook for
    myself, do my own laundry and ride the MUNI in San
    Francisco. When I was able to work I rode motorcyles
    and drove cars but my condition is such that I can no
    longer depend on my vision and reactions.

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Mon May 18 18:16:28 2026


    On 5/18/26 16:59, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/17/2026 1:53 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

    Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods.˙ And that is what is going >>> on in the USA right now.

    WTF are you talking about?

    You are foolish if you really do not not know what I am talking about.

    Lynn

    Still you refuse to define your terms.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Mon May 18 23:17:07 2026
    On 5/18/2026 8:16 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:


    On 5/18/26 16:59, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/17/2026 1:53 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

    Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods.˙ And that is what is
    going
    on in the USA right now.

    WTF are you talking about?

    You are foolish if you really do not not know what I am talking about.

    Lynn

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ Still you refuse to define your terms.

    Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.
    There are many, many, many more from the federal and state governments.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 16:54:09 2026
    On 19/05/2026 13:15, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
    Anyway we lived most of my
    childhood on the cheap for the next attempt to climb out
    of the class, whatever it was in the 1950s. So I cook for
    myself, do my own laundry

    Most New Zealanders do that now, have always done so and will probably
    continue to do so as a matter of culture rather than economics.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 16:54:20 2026
    On 19/05/2026 13:16, Bobbie Sellers wrote:


    On 5/18/26 16:59, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/17/2026 1:53 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

    Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods.˙ And that is what is
    going
    on in the USA right now.

    WTF are you talking about?

    You are foolish if you really do not not know what I am talking about.

    Lynn

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ Still you refuse to define your terms.

    There was a reported increase in the demand for free goods offered for
    example, on your birthday. Somehow this has been transformed into
    "infinite" demand for free goods but whether because of effective
    marketing strategies or behavioural changes is not known. Dimwire will
    have some twisted right wing view that disapproves with neither rhyme
    nor reason. Perhaps it was expressed earlier in this thread?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 11:23:47 2026
    On 2026-05-19, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

    On 5/18/26 16:58, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
    On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

    Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
    Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
    the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
    as police to protect their wealth, highways to
    travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
    those who deviate from their idea of proper
    ideation and behavior.

    It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
    are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
    estate in life.

    If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
    Or...?
    ...

    Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper
    middle class and the wealthy.

    She wants everyone to be the same and poor.

    Lynn

    No I want every person to have enough.

    What are you doing for them to make that happen?
    In case you didn't know, wanting something isn't
    enough to make things happening in this world,
    nor is making words appear in USENET newsgroup
    posts.

    As far as I can tell, you - who apparently have
    nothing to give - and either unwillingness or
    unableness to do anything about "every person
    have[ing] enough" - have settled on a plan of
    whining until those with means and ability do
    things conform to your wants.

    Guess what the chances of that happening are,
    especially in a textual venue that such
    people will almost certainly never
    visit to read your words?

    Given that demanding others do what you can't
    or won't do doesn't work, and that your
    demands are in a place that they won't
    see them anyway, it seems to me your
    verbiage amounts to some ineffective
    combination of virtue signalling to
    other such whiners, and of
    admission of jealousy for
    not having what those you
    make demands of have.

    My recommendation is that if your demands
    are truly anything more than that, that
    you become someone of means in order to
    fulfill your (in your own eyes)
    incredibly virtuous - but
    powerless - wants.

    Presently I have a bit less than enough but I
    can still get by. I see lots of people who are
    much worse off than myself and maybe even if
    they had what I have economically they might
    not get by as well as I do.

    Where is your theory that everyone should have
    enough coming from? Is that the way it works
    in nature?

    The answer is *no*.

    And so why should it be any different for humans,
    who are in that same nature/environment?

    That I get by as well as I do is because I have
    other than purely economic resources. I have
    mentioned before that I was strongly influenced
    by my mother and by my step-father as they both
    lived thru the Great Depression and step-father
    was a striver who owned and managed serially a
    farm, another farm, a rice farm, two different
    restaurants and was a jack of all the trades as
    he had a handy book that explained them in the
    vernacular of the 1940s. Anyway we lived most of
    my childhood on the cheap for the next attempt
    to climb out of the class, whatever it was
    in the 1950s. So I cook for myself, do my own
    laundry and ride the MUNI in San Francisco. When
    I was able to work I rode motorcyles and drove
    cars but my condition is such that I can no
    longer depend on my vision and reactions.

    Okay, so it sounds like you did something for
    yourself to "have enough".

    So... why shouldn't others be expected to do
    what's needed in order to "have enough"? Why
    were you earlier implying that people other
    than you should be doing something for
    those who can't/won't do what it takes
    to "have enough"?

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 11:29:41 2026
    On 2026-05-18, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
    On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

    Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
    Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
    the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
    as police to protect their wealth, highways to
    travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
    those who deviate from their idea of proper
    ideation and behavior.

    It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
    are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
    estate in life.

    If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
    Or...?
    ...

    Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle
    class and the wealthy.

    She wants everyone to be the same and poor.

    It's typical liberal claptrap, which begins
    with positing beliefs about what reality and
    people *should* be, and then complaining when
    reality and people don't magically conform to
    those beliefs. It consists primarily of setting
    up a strawman reality and strawman human be-ings
    therein, and then waxing woke sage when actual
    reality and people don't measure up to their
    strawmen counterparts.

    That's basically the essence of their favorite
    virtual-signalling play.

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 08:14:02 2026
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.
    There are many, many, many more from the federal and state governments.

    It's true, those are examples of redistribution of wealth. But of course
    so are the FBA program, the Response and Relief act, the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program and so many others which take taxpayer funds and
    funnel them into corporate boardrooms.

    And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP don't actually cost
    very much in comparison.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 12:33:05 2026
    On 2026-05-19, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of
    the freebies in the USA. There are many,
    many, many more from the federal and state
    governments.

    It's true, those are examples of redistribution
    of wealth. But of course so are the FBA program,
    the Response and Relief act, the Economic
    Injury Disaster Loan program and so many others
    which take taxpayer funds and funnel them into
    corporate boardrooms.

    And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC,
    and SNAP don't actually cost very much in
    comparison.

    Hilarious. "if you look", but no guidance on
    where to look, no attempt to quote from a single
    where-to-look places, possibly with at least a
    stab at whether and why such sources should be
    considered unbiased.

    Are we supposed to spend the rest of the day
    trying to find "where to look"?

    My guess is that not including such information
    is with the hope that nobody will spend so much
    as 15 minutes - let alone the rest of the day -
    trying to find such, which of course helps keep
    the claims as unchallengeable as possible....

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 14:07:14 2026
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
    On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

    Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
    Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
    the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
    as police to protect their wealth, highways to
    travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
    those who deviate from their idea of proper
    ideation and behavior.

    It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
    are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
    estate in life.

    If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
    Or...?
    ...

    Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.

    You, sir, are an asshole.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 15:22:26 2026
    On 2026-05-19, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
    On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

    Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
    Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
    the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
    as police to protect their wealth, highways to
    travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
    those who deviate from their idea of proper
    ideation and behavior.

    It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
    are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
    estate in life.

    If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
    Or...?
    ...

    Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper
    middle class and the wealthy.

    You, sir, are an asshole.

    Why is accuracy so difficult for you?

    You, being a subjective be-ing, have exactly *zero*
    thumb on the pulse of asshole objectivity.

    The accurate way to express what you wrote would
    go more like:

    "I think you're an asshole."

    -or-

    "You qualify as an asshole in my private
    conceptuality context."

    But coming out as though your subjective
    view of asshole-ism is objective, well,
    that's just typical "pride that cometh
    before a fall" grade writing.

    Not that much more than that can be
    expected of an ego, of course....

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 08:42:21 2026
    On Tue, 19 May 2026 14:07:14 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
    ...

    Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.

    You, sir, are an asshole.

    If only for responding to an obvious troll.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 08:43:59 2026
    On Mon, 18 May 2026 18:58:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:

    <snippo>
    If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
    Or...?
    ...

    Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.

    She wants everyone to be the same and poor.

    You wish.

    She just wants them to behave less piggishly.

    And there are very like millions who would agree.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 08:47:21 2026
    On Mon, 18 May 2026 18:54:07 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 17 May 2026 18:53:21 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) >>wrote:

    WTF are you talking about?

    He's trying to pretend to himself that bottomless deficits are
    something everybody wants.

    It sure sounds to me like they are something both political parties
    want,
    or else we would have paid the debts from the Vietnam war back long ago.
    And "everybody" voting seems to be more or less happy about it.

    The choice is generally between candidates of two Parties, both of
    which appear to like large deficits. So they vote per their habit,
    their family tradition, or reasons not related to deficits/National
    Debt.

    Doesn't mean they like it though. And this disconnect is going to
    cause problems. Problems not solvable by campaign slogans or
    ideological propaganda.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 08:54:58 2026
    On Tue, 19 May 2026 08:14:02 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.
    There are many, many, many more from the federal and state governments.

    It's true, those are examples of redistribution of wealth. But of
    course
    so are the FBA program, the Response and Relief act, the Economic Injury >Disaster Loan program and so many others which take taxpayer funds and >funnel them into corporate boardrooms.

    And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP don't actually cost
    very much in comparison.

    But the money is not going to the right people. It belongs to the
    1%-ers (as all money does) but it is going to The Rest of US.

    Attacking WIC/SNAP, BTW, is not very smart from the National Security standpoint nor from the Traditional Family Values standpoint, as the
    point of the programs is to ensure children eat enough to grow up into 18-year-olds able to become soldiers and also to help single mothers
    raise their children despite the disappearance of the male.

    I do not say "the man" because /men/ do not desert their families.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 16:17:59 2026
    On 2026-05-19, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 18 May 2026 18:58:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:

    <snippo>
    If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
    Or...?
    ...

    Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper
    middle class and the wealthy.

    She wants everyone to be the same and poor.

    You wish.

    She just wants them to behave less piggishly.

    So many mind-readers in these parts!

    Your mind-reading-rooted guess might seem
    reasonable were I not so familiar with
    Bobbie's newsgroup contributions being
    far and away more TDS-motivated pleas
    for attention, validation, and
    camaraderie from other TDS
    sufferers.

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 16:19:15 2026
    On 2026-05-19, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Tue, 19 May 2026 14:07:14 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
    ...

    Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper
    middle class and the wealthy.

    You, sir, are an asshole.

    If only for responding to an obvious troll.

    In the eyes of those incapable of spirited,
    intelligent debate/discussion!

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 17:39:26 2026
    On 5/19/2026 10:54 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Tue, 19 May 2026 08:14:02 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.
    There are many, many, many more from the federal and state governments.

    It's true, those are examples of redistribution of wealth. But of course
    so are the FBA program, the Response and Relief act, the Economic Injury
    Disaster Loan program and so many others which take taxpayer funds and
    funnel them into corporate boardrooms.

    And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP don't actually cost
    very much in comparison.

    But the money is not going to the right people. It belongs to the
    1%-ers (as all money does) but it is going to The Rest of US.

    Attacking WIC/SNAP, BTW, is not very smart from the National Security standpoint nor from the Traditional Family Values standpoint, as the
    point of the programs is to ensure children eat enough to grow up into 18-year-olds able to become soldiers and also to help single mothers
    raise their children despite the disappearance of the male.

    I do not say "the man" because /men/ do not desert their families.

    Where did I attack those programs?

    When the USA Dollar fails in the not so distant future, we will all suffer.

    Lynn




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 17:43:38 2026
    On 5/19/2026 7:14 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.
    There are many, many, many more from the federal and state governments.

    It's true, those are examples of redistribution of wealth. But of course
    so are the FBA program, the Response and Relief act, the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program and so many others which take taxpayer funds and
    funnel them into corporate boardrooms.

    And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP don't actually cost
    very much in comparison.
    --scott

    I note that you fail to mention the cost of these programs. The cost of
    the three programs alone that I mentioned is over a trillion USA Dollars
    per year and rapidly approaching two trillion Dollars per year.

    I have no idea what the FBA program is. Nor do I know the cost of any
    program that you mentioned is. All you did was to mention a few
    unfounded items with no backup whatsoever.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 21:44:58 2026
    On 5/18/2026 8:15 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
    ...
    Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.

    She wants everyone to be the same and poor.

    Lynn


    ˙˙˙˙No I want every person to have enough.˙ Presently I have
    a bit less than enough but I can still get by.˙˙ I see lots of people
    who are much worse off than myself and maybe even if they
    had what I have economically they might not get by as well
    as I do.

    ˙˙˙˙That I get by as well as I do is because I have other than
    purely economic resources.˙ I have mentioned before that I
    was strongly influenced by my mother and by my step-father
    as they both lived thru the Great Depression and step-father
    was a striver who owned and managed serially a farm, another
    farm, a rice farm, two different restaurants and was a jack of
    all the trades as he had a handy book that explained them in
    the vernacular of the 1940s.˙ Anyway we lived most of my
    childhood on the cheap for the next attempt to climb out
    of the class, whatever it was in the 1950s. So I cook for
    myself, do my own laundry and ride the MUNI in San
    Francisco.˙ When I was able to work I rode motorcyles
    and drove cars but my condition is such that I can no
    longer depend on my vision and reactions.

    ˙˙˙˙bliss

    And what is enough ?

    Your state, California, is getting ready to have a wealth tax and all of
    the billionaires are fleeing. Then they will move the wealth tax to the millionaires and they will all flee. Then they will move the wealth tax
    to the thousandaires and they will flee. All that you will be left with
    will be the poor.

    When the state walks up to a person and demands a a hefty portion of his
    money at gunpoint, bad things will happen.

    I urge you to read "The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047" by Lionel Shriver.

    https://www.amazon.com/Mandibles-Family-2029-2047-Lionel-Shriver/dp/006232828X

    "In 2029, the United States is engaged in a bloodless world war that
    will wipe out the savings of millions of American families. In this
    gripping dystopian novel, the ?almighty dollar? plummets in value
    overnight on the international currency exchange, to be replaced by a
    new global currency, the ?bancor.? In retaliation, the president
    declares that America will default on its loans. ?Deadbeat Nation? being unable to borrow, the government prints money to cover its bills. What
    little remains to savers is rapidly eaten away by runaway inflation."

    Tough times are coming.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Tue May 19 21:56:13 2026
    On 5/19/2026 9:44 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 5/18/2026 8:15 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
    ...
    Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.

    She wants everyone to be the same and poor.

    Lynn


    ˙˙˙˙˙No I want every person to have enough.˙ Presently I have
    a bit less than enough but I can still get by.˙˙ I see lots of people
    who are much worse off than myself and maybe even if they
    had what I have economically they might not get by as well
    as I do.

    ˙˙˙˙˙That I get by as well as I do is because I have other than
    purely economic resources.˙ I have mentioned before that I
    was strongly influenced by my mother and by my step-father
    as they both lived thru the Great Depression and step-father
    was a striver who owned and managed serially a farm, another
    farm, a rice farm, two different restaurants and was a jack of
    all the trades as he had a handy book that explained them in
    the vernacular of the 1940s.˙ Anyway we lived most of my
    childhood on the cheap for the next attempt to climb out
    of the class, whatever it was in the 1950s. So I cook for
    myself, do my own laundry and ride the MUNI in San
    Francisco.˙ When I was able to work I rode motorcyles
    and drove cars but my condition is such that I can no
    longer depend on my vision and reactions.

    ˙˙˙˙˙bliss

    And what is enough ?

    Your state, California, is getting ready to have a wealth tax and all of
    the billionaires are fleeing.˙ Then they will move the wealth tax to the millionaires and they will all flee.˙ Then they will move the wealth tax
    to the thousandaires and they will flee.˙ All that you will be left with will be the poor.

    When the state walks up to a person and demands a a hefty portion of his money at gunpoint, bad things will happen.

    I urge you to read "The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047" by Lionel Shriver.

    https://www.amazon.com/Mandibles-Family-2029-2047-Lionel-Shriver/ dp/006232828X

    "In 2029, the United States is engaged in a bloodless world war that
    will wipe out the savings of millions of American families. In this
    gripping dystopian novel, the ?almighty dollar? plummets in value
    overnight on the international currency exchange, to be replaced by a
    new global currency, the ?bancor.? In retaliation, the president
    declares that America will default on its loans. ?Deadbeat Nation? being unable to borrow, the government prints money to cover its bills. What little remains to savers is rapidly eaten away by runaway inflation."

    Tough times are coming.

    Lynn

    BTW, I wrote one of the top reviews on Amazon for this book. #3 on the
    book web page.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Wed May 20 12:54:11 2026
    On 2026-05-19, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 5/19/2026 7:14 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of
    the freebies in the USA. There are many,
    many, many more from the federal and state
    governments.

    It's true, those are examples of redistribution
    of wealth. But of course so are the FBA
    program, the Response and Relief act, the
    Economic Injury Disaster Loan program and
    so many others which take taxpayer funds and
    funnel them into corporate boardrooms.

    And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC,
    and SNAP don't actually cost very much in
    comparison. --scott

    I note that you fail to mention the cost of
    these programs. The cost of the three programs
    alone that I mentioned is over a trillion USA
    Dollars per year and rapidly approaching two
    trillion Dollars per year.

    I have no idea what the FBA program is. Nor do I
    know the cost of any program that you mentioned
    is. All you did was to mention a few unfounded
    items with no backup whatsoever.

    Scott is of that modern breed of liberal for
    which the feeling of hatred for one person is
    sufficient proof of everything they willy nilly
    decide to be reality.

    A couple weeks ago someone made a claim that
    Republican presidents increased the national
    debt more than Democrat presidents. I asked for
    evidence, they supplied a URL, and a summary of
    a table allegedly in the content located by that
    URL - making it sound as though I'd be sorry I
    ever asked for evidence.

    I went to the content, and lo and behold the
    summary table they had presented was missing
    many of the presidents listed in the original
    table. I copy and pasted the actual table, added
    a column to indicate president party affiliation,
    then wrote a simple Lua script to add up the
    numbers per party affiliation.

    And of *course* the actual math showed the
    opposite of what the aforementioned someone
    claimed.

    And of *course* I never heard back from said
    psychopath after showing the math worked upon
    *their own data*! And of *course* everybody else
    in their mouth-frothing camp whipped out their
    10-foot poles to carefully avoid dealing with
    the actual results.

    But that's how it goes when taking into account
    all the data, instead of merely hand-picking to
    get "facts" to align with one's obsessive hatred
    of one person.

    One might call it Derangement "Think". And as
    with the ratcheting up of label they performed
    to describe The Person They Signal Virtue By
    Openly Hating On, which wound up with the
    terminal case of "***HITLER!***", their
    ongoing performative claims and antics
    continue to devolve from ridiculous to
    more ridiculous, such that just when
    you think they can't become any more
    insane, suddenly someone like Scott
    or Bobbie is pushing said envelope,
    causing the jaws of those still in
    touch with actual reality to drop
    upon that much more....

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Wed May 20 09:25:38 2026
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    The choice is generally between candidates of two Parties, both of
    which appear to like large deficits. So they vote per their habit,
    their family tradition, or reasons not related to deficits/National
    Debt.

    Yes.

    Although it is true that one party talks about reducing the debt while increasing it, while the other party refuses to talk about the debt while increasing it.

    And we DO have primaries. Unfortunately far too few people vote in them.
    There are many areas where one party has a large enough majority that the primary is where the real decisions are made.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Wed May 20 09:29:19 2026
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    Your state, California, is getting ready to have a wealth tax and all of
    the billionaires are fleeing. Then they will move the wealth tax to the >millionaires and they will all flee. Then they will move the wealth tax
    to the thousandaires and they will flee. All that you will be left with >will be the poor.

    It could happen. But this is what was predicted in Massachusetts and
    they did increase taxes considerably on the top few percent and nobody
    left.

    It'll be interesting to see. But most of the actually wealthy people these days have stashed much of their money offshore already, so I doubt it will
    make much difference.

    If you're worried about state taxes, it's time to become a Delaware corporation.
    --scott


    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Wed May 20 13:49:16 2026
    On 2026-05-20, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    The choice is generally between candidates
    of two Parties, both of which appear to like
    large deficits. So they vote per their habit,
    their family tradition, or reasons not related
    to deficits/National Debt.

    Yes.

    Although it is true that one party talks about
    reducing the debt while increasing it, while
    the other party refuses to talk about the debt
    while increasing it.

    And we DO have primaries. Unfortunately far too
    few people vote in them. There are many areas
    where one party has a large enough majority
    that the primary is where the real decisions
    are made.

    Where did the ridiculous idea that greater
    numbers of people voting increases chances
    of outcomes being better come from?

    Doesn't the average character, intelligence,
    and wisdom of constituents mean anything to you?

    Said another way, what happens when a majority
    are deceitful morons?

    This attitude that slapping a political solution
    rooted in numbers alone on a wounded society is
    laughably delusional.

    Do you seriously believe that "the right person"
    in a political position has any chance of turning
    a tide of constituency of liars and cheats, who
    will sell others down the river for their own
    benefit the instant they detect nobody is
    looking, and/or they're convinced they've
    been sufficiently careful to have left no
    evidence?

    Don't the keys in your pocket that operate
    the locks that you know damned well you need
    (e.g. house, vehicles, safe) scream that
    something more fundamental than a
    political solution is needed?

    Oh, and don't forget about your passwords.
    Why do you think you need those?

    Um, DUH......

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Wed May 20 08:13:26 2026
    On Wed, 20 May 2026 09:25:38 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    The choice is generally between candidates of two Parties, both of
    which appear to like large deficits. So they vote per their habit,
    their family tradition, or reasons not related to deficits/National
    Debt.

    Yes.

    Although it is true that one party talks about reducing the debt while >increasing it, while the other party refuses to talk about the debt
    while
    increasing it.

    And we DO have primaries. Unfortunately far too few people vote in
    them.
    There are many areas where one party has a large enough majority that
    the
    primary is where the real decisions are made.

    Primaries which, when closed to non-Party members, are often between
    Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

    And /very/ open Primaries, like we have in Washington, can produce two candidates for the actual election from /the same Party/. So the
    decision is made by more voters.

    We also have various oddballs. IIRC, one of them (GoodSpaceGuy) made
    it to the actual election one year.

    And the Socialist candidates are easily recognized: they all have the
    exact same Candidate's Statement, provided by whatever organization
    decides what Socialist candidates are to say.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Wed May 20 08:14:46 2026
    On Tue, 19 May 2026 17:39:26 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 5/19/2026 10:54 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Tue, 19 May 2026 08:14:02 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.
    There are many, many, many more from the federal and state
    governments.

    It's true, those are examples of redistribution of wealth. But of
    course
    so are the FBA program, the Response and Relief act, the Economic
    Injury
    Disaster Loan program and so many others which take taxpayer funds
    and
    funnel them into corporate boardrooms.

    And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP don't actually
    cost
    very much in comparison.

    But the money is not going to the right people. It belongs to the
    1%-ers (as all money does) but it is going to The Rest of US.

    Attacking WIC/SNAP, BTW, is not very smart from the National Security
    standpoint nor from the Traditional Family Values standpoint, as the
    point of the programs is to ensure children eat enough to grow up into
    18-year-olds able to become soldiers and also to help single mothers
    raise their children despite the disappearance of the male.

    I do not say "the man" because /men/ do not desert their families.

    Where did I attack those programs?

    When the USA Dollar fails in the not so distant future, we will all
    suffer.

    So, when you identify something as a "freebie", you are not attacking
    it?

    What are you doing -- approving it?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Wed May 20 15:31:56 2026
    On 2026-05-20, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Tue, 19 May 2026 17:39:26 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 5/19/2026 10:54 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Tue, 19 May 2026 08:14:02 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of
    the freebies in the USA. There are many,
    many, many more from the federal and state
    governments.

    It's true, those are examples of
    redistribution of wealth. But of course
    so are the FBA program, the Response and
    Relief act, the Economic Injury Disaster
    Loan program and so many others which take
    taxpayer funds and funnel them into corporate
    boardrooms.

    And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC,
    and SNAP don't actually cost very much in
    comparison.

    But the money is not going to the right
    people. It belongs to the 1%-ers (as all
    money does) but it is going to The Rest of US.

    Attacking WIC/SNAP, BTW, is not very smart
    from the National Security standpoint
    nor from the Traditional Family Values
    standpoint, as the point of the programs is
    to ensure children eat enough to grow up into
    18-year-olds able to become soldiers and also
    to help single mothers raise their children
    despite the disappearance of the male.

    I do not say "the man" because /men/ do not
    desert their families.

    Where did I attack those programs?

    When the USA Dollar fails in the not so distant
    future, we will all suffer.

    So, when you identify something as a "freebie",
    you are not attacking it?

    What are you doing -- approving it?

    Anyone out there remember/know when the "neither"
    option became incomprehensible to some?

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Wed May 20 15:33:27 2026
    On 5/20/2026 8:29 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    Your state, California, is getting ready to have a wealth tax and all of
    the billionaires are fleeing. Then they will move the wealth tax to the
    millionaires and they will all flee. Then they will move the wealth tax
    to the thousandaires and they will flee. All that you will be left with
    will be the poor.

    It could happen. But this is what was predicted in Massachusetts and
    they did increase taxes considerably on the top few percent and nobody
    left.

    It'll be interesting to see. But most of the actually wealthy people these days have stashed much of their money offshore already, so I doubt it will make much difference.

    If you're worried about state taxes, it's time to become a Delaware corporation.
    --scott

    The corporations registered in Delaware are moving their registrations
    to Texas after the Chancery court in Delaware made such an adverse
    ruling in the Tesla case.

    https://www.texastribune.org/2026/05/12/texas-reincorporation-delaware-dell-exxon/

    Lynn



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Wed May 20 15:42:26 2026
    On 5/20/2026 10:14 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Tue, 19 May 2026 17:39:26 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 5/19/2026 10:54 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Tue, 19 May 2026 08:14:02 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.
    There are many, many, many more from the federal and state governments. >>>>
    It's true, those are examples of redistribution of wealth. But of course >>>> so are the FBA program, the Response and Relief act, the Economic Injury >>>> Disaster Loan program and so many others which take taxpayer funds and >>>> funnel them into corporate boardrooms.

    And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP don't actually cost >>>> very much in comparison.

    But the money is not going to the right people. It belongs to the
    1%-ers (as all money does) but it is going to The Rest of US.

    Attacking WIC/SNAP, BTW, is not very smart from the National Security
    standpoint nor from the Traditional Family Values standpoint, as the
    point of the programs is to ensure children eat enough to grow up into
    18-year-olds able to become soldiers and also to help single mothers
    raise their children despite the disappearance of the male.

    I do not say "the man" because /men/ do not desert their families.

    Where did I attack those programs?

    When the USA Dollar fails in the not so distant future, we will all suffer.

    So, when you identify something as a "freebie", you are not attacking
    it?

    What are you doing -- approving it?

    It is what it is.

    I like the fact that our society in the USA has broad safety nets.

    I do not like the idea that people are abusing those safety nets. As
    Bill Clinton said about several things, they should be available and
    rarely used.

    Anyway, the USA is going broke and the USA Dollar may collapse soon,
    maybe as soon as 2029. These coming tough times will define us and make
    us decide what is important. Social safety nets will have to be
    balanced against Defense, Social Security, Medicare, farming, clean
    water, energy, etc.

    Of course, predictions are very difficult, especially about the future.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 31 01:20:07 2026
    On Sat, 16 May 2026 10:22:31 -0700, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    I suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
    Seattle), but some other UW.


    University of Waterloo (in Waterloo, Ontario)

    While I'm in Vancouver which is a LOT closer to Seattle, there's no
    question which of the two schools has a reputation as a top
    engineering school and which doesn't :)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 31 04:53:32 2026
    The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 May 2026 10:22:31 -0700, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    I suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
    Seattle), but some other UW.


    University of Waterloo (in Waterloo, Ontario)

    While I'm in Vancouver which is a LOT closer to Seattle, there's no
    question which of the two schools has a reputation as a top
    engineering school and which doesn't :)

    Waterloo is famous for compilers and for John Vanderkooy, I think.
    University of Washington is famous for Bruce Lee.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Robert Woodward@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 31 10:29:40 2026
    In article <10vgsuc$8n4$1@panix2.panix.com>,
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

    The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 May 2026 10:22:31 -0700, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    I suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
    Seattle), but some other UW.


    University of Waterloo (in Waterloo, Ontario)

    While I'm in Vancouver which is a LOT closer to Seattle, there's no >question which of the two schools has a reputation as a top
    engineering school and which doesn't :)

    Waterloo is famous for compilers and for John Vanderkooy, I think.
    University of Washington is famous for Bruce Lee.

    That's like saying that Ohio State University is famous for Curtis LeMay.

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. ?-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 31 20:00:37 2026
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <10vgsuc$8n4$1@panix2.panix.com>,
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

    The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 May 2026 10:22:31 -0700, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    I suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
    Seattle), but some other UW.


    University of Waterloo (in Waterloo, Ontario)

    While I'm in Vancouver which is a LOT closer to Seattle, there's no
    question which of the two schools has a reputation as a top
    engineering school and which doesn't :)

    Waterloo is famous for compilers and for John Vanderkooy, I think.
    University of Washington is famous for Bruce Lee.

    That's like saying that Ohio State University is famous for Curtis LeMay.

    Oh, no. Ohio State is famous for cafeteria food poisoning.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.15
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)