From 2019:governments
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/
?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable. What if the
economy crashes? What if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
things I can answer to. You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.) Which means I?m used to
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >account and addicted to meth.?THEM
?I?ve seen crashes. I?ve heard of crashes from grandma. NONE OF
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/
?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are
things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to governments that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/
?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable. What if the
economy crashes? What if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
things I can answer to. You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.) Which means I?m used to governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes. I?ve heard of crashes from grandma. NONE OF THEM
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
˙From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/
?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are
things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to governments >>> that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
˙From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/
?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are
things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to
governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM >>>> KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined history.
Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest since 1945.
Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.
But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year, we
see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's 2025
debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.
The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.˙ It was squandered by
Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
˙From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/
?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are
things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to
governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM >>>> KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined history.
Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest since 1945.
Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.
But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year, we
see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's 2025
debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.
The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.˙ It was squandered by
Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.
William Hyde
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/
?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves
comfortable. What if the economy crashes? What
if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
things I can answer to. You see, I come from
a Mediterranean country (not in geography,
but in culture.) Which means I?m used to
governments that run their purses like high
school kids with an unending spending account
and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes. I?ve heard of
crashes from grandma. NONE OF THEM KILLED A
SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win
control of the House in 2026, they will fix
the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is
running now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden
expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
to $2 trillion.
On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
˙From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>
?Well, pull up a rock and make
yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
economy crashes?˙ What if our money is
worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are things I
can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a
Mediterranean country (not in geography,
but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used
to governments that run their purses like
high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of
crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM KILLED
A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win
control of the House in 2026, they will fix
the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA
is running now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden
expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
to $2 trillion.
Once again you dwell in your own little world
with it's own imagined history.
Out here in the real world history shows that
the highest deficit of all time was run up by
trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.
Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame"
as both presidents had to deal with Covid and
it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first
years had to deal with the aftermath of Wall
street's early 2000s crime spree.
But if we compare Obama's last year with
Trump's last pre-covid year, we see that Trump
had tacked on another hundred billion. And
Trump's 2025 debt is higher than that of Biden
in his last three years.
The last surplus was during Clinton's
presidency.˙ It was squandered by Bush Jr,
and since then you've never come close to
a surplus.
and Republicans increase it. There are academic
papers about it.
On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
˙From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>
?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are >>>>> things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to
governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >>>>> account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM >>>>> KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
history.
Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.
Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.
But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year,
we see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's
2025 debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.
The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.˙ It was squandered
by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.
William Hyde
As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu.˙ Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now appearing to have killed more people than it cured.
The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024.˙ Trump would not be
President for three months.
And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
Reduction Act was the worst.˙ The act actually did not spend much money until the federal year 2024 and then it went wild with the spending.
Trump has managed to kill off quite a bit of the act but its expenses
trail on for trillions of dollars. much more than what was estimated.
˙˙ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act
I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.
Lynn
On 5/14/26 23:33, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
<snpi>So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
history.
Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.
As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu.˙ Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now
appearing to have killed more people than it cured.
The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024.˙ Trump would not be
President for three months.
And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
Reduction Act was the worst.
I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:governments
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/
?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable. What if the
economy crashes? What if our money is worth nothing? What if? Are
things I can answer to. You see, I come from a Mediterranean country
(not in geography, but in culture.) Which means I?m used to
OF THEMthat run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes. I?ve heard of crashes from grandma. NONE
now?KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
byThe last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.? It was squandered
Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt and Republicans increase
it. There are academic papers about it.
Hence my assertion that we need two /new/
parties.
As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu. Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now >appearing to have killed more people than it cured.
The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024. Trump would not be
President for three months.
And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
Reduction Act was the worst. The act actually did not spend much money >until the federal year 2024 and then it went wild with the spending.
Trump has managed to kill off quite a bit of the act but its expenses
trail on for trillions of dollars. much more than what was estimated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act
I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:now?
<snip>
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit >>from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
Your grasp of history proves insufficient.
You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)
Fiscal Year Deficit (Trillion$)
2016 $0.585
2017 $0.665
2018 $0.779
2019 $0.984
2020 $3.132 (Covid-19 Impact)
2021 $2.772 (Arguably the same)
2022 $2.375
2023 $1.695
2024 $1.833
2025 $1.700+
2026 projected to be more than $2.000 trillion
So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
presidency.
Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
random spending on fountains, ballrooms
and changing history in the national park system;
Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.
On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
˙From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>
?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are >>>>> things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to
governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >>>>> account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM >>>>> KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
history.
Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.
Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.
But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year,
we see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's
2025 debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.
The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.˙ It was squandered
by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.
William Hyde
As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu.˙ Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now appearing to have killed more people than it cured.
On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:26:45 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
<snip>
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now? >>>
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
Your grasp of history proves insufficient.
You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)
Fiscal Year Deficit (Trillion$)
2016 $0.585
2017 $0.665
2018 $0.779
2019 $0.984
2020 $3.132 (Covid-19 Impact)
2021 $2.772 (Arguably the same)
2022 $2.375
2023 $1.695
2024 $1.833
2025 $1.700+
2026 projected to be more than $2.000 trillion
So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
presidency.
Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
random spending on fountains, ballrooms
and changing history in the national park system;
Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.
Or we can just raise the tax rates on the higher tax brackets and
start turning the ship around.
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
˙From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>>
?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the >>>>>> economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are >>>>>> things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to
governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >>>>>> account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF >>>>>> THEM
KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
history.
Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.
Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree. >>>
But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year,
we see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's
2025 debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.
The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.˙ It was squandered
by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.
William Hyde
As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu.˙ Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
Not true.
just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now
appearing to have killed more people than it cured.
Also not true.˙ The high US death total relative to many other countries came from lack of action, not from the one good action taken.
Anyway, I gave Trump and Biden a pass for covid-related debt. We have certainly had the same problem in Canada.
But Trump ran a deficit before Covid that was well above Obama's. He is
not remotely a fiscal conservative.
William Hyde
Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2026 22:26:45 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
˙ <snip>
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit
from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
Your grasp of history proves insufficient.
You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)
˙ Fiscal Year˙˙˙˙˙ Deficit (Trillion$)
˙˙˙ 2016˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $0.585
˙˙˙ 2017˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $0.665
˙˙˙ 2018˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $0.779
˙˙˙ 2019˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $0.984
˙˙˙ 2020˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $3.132˙ (Covid-19 Impact)
˙˙˙ 2021˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $2.772˙ (Arguably the same)
˙˙˙ 2022˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $2.375
˙˙˙ 2023˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $1.695
˙˙˙ 2024˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $1.833
˙˙˙ 2025˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ $1.700+
˙˙˙ 2026˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ projected to be more than $2.000 trillion
So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
presidency.
Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
random spending on fountains, ballrooms
and changing history in the national park system;
Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.
Or we can just raise the tax rates on the higher tax brackets and
start turning the ship around.
It worked before.
Clinton's surplus depended on a˙ very good economy, but also two tax increases, one by Bush the elder and one by Clinton.
Both presidents were reviled for them, and arguably it cost Bush his reelection.
Credit to both men for a courageous decision.
William Hyde
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit=20 >>from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
And that Reagan nearly doubled the National Debt in four years. ><https://www.us-debt-clock.com/data/debt-by-year>
That said, this is indeed a bipartisan problem. With a clear
bipartisan insistence on keeping it growing.
On 2026-05-15, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
˙From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>>
?Well, pull up a rock and make
yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
economy crashes?˙ What if our money is
worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are things I
can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a
Mediterranean country (not in geography,
but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used
to governments that run their purses like
high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of
crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM KILLED
A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win
control of the House in 2026, they will fix
the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA
is running now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden
expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
to $2 trillion.
Once again you dwell in your own little world
with it's own imagined history.
Out here in the real world history shows that
the highest deficit of all time was run up by
trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.
Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame"
as both presidents had to deal with Covid and
it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first
years had to deal with the aftermath of Wall
street's early 2000s crime spree.
But if we compare Obama's last year with
Trump's last pre-covid year, we see that Trump
had tacked on another hundred billion. And
Trump's 2025 debt is higher than that of Biden
in his last three years.
The last surplus was during Clinton's
presidency.˙ It was squandered by Bush Jr,
and since then you've never come close to
a surplus.
and Republicans increase it. There are academic
papers about it.
And yet you couldn't site so much as *one*....
And if/when you do, we'll discover its author(s)
is(are) are anything and everything but unbiased.
<sigh>
On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
˙From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>
?Well, pull up a rock and make yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
economy crashes?˙ What if our money is worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are >>>>> things I can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a Mediterranean country >>>>> (not in geography, but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used to
governments
that run their purses like high school kids with an unending spending >>>>> account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM >>>>> KILLED A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running
now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual
deficit from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
Once again you dwell in your own little world with it's own imagined
history.
Out here in the real world history shows that the highest deficit of
all time was run up by trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.
Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame" as both presidents had to
deal with Covid and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first years
had to deal with the aftermath of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.
But if we compare Obama's last year with Trump's last pre-covid year,
we see that Trump had tacked on another hundred billion. And Trump's
2025 debt is higher than that of Biden in his last three years.
The last surplus was during Clinton's presidency.˙ It was squandered
by Bush Jr, and since then you've never come close to a surplus.
William Hyde
As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread across the entire planet
like wildfire and we thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu.˙ Trump spent hundreds of billions of dollars on a vaccine
just to come up with a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is now appearing to have killed more people than it cured.
The USA federal 2025 year started Oct 1, 2024.˙ Trump would not be
President for three months.
And Biden left Trump with several turkeys, of which the Inflation
Reduction Act was the worst.˙ The act actually did not spend much money until the federal year 2024 and then it went wild with the spending.
Trump has managed to kill off quite a bit of the act but its expenses
trail on for trillions of dollars. much more than what was estimated.
˙˙ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act
I could go on and on about Biden's turkeys.
Lynn
On 5/15/2026 7:41 AM, oldernow wrote:
On 2026-05-15, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:The problem with asking to be shown the receipts is that
On 5/14/2026 3:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
˙From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>>>
?Well, pull up a rock and make
yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
economy crashes?˙ What if our money is
worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are things I
can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a
Mediterranean country (not in geography,
but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used
to governments that run their purses like
high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of
crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM KILLED
A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win
control of the House in 2026, they will fix
the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA
is running now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden
expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
to $2 trillion.
Once again you dwell in your own little world
with it's own imagined history.
Out here in the real world history shows that
the highest deficit of all time was run up by
trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.
Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame"
as both presidents had to deal with Covid and
it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his first
years had to deal with the aftermath of Wall
street's early 2000s crime spree.
But if we compare Obama's last year with
Trump's last pre-covid year, we see that Trump
had tacked on another hundred billion. And
Trump's 2025 debt is higher than that of Biden
in his last three years.
The last surplus was during Clinton's
presidency.˙ It was squandered by Bush Jr,
and since then you've never come close to
a surplus.
and Republicans increase it. There are academic
papers about it.
And yet you couldn't site so much as *one*....
And if/when you do, we'll discover its author(s)
is(are) are anything and everything but unbiased.
<sigh>
sometimes people have them.
Source: https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225
President Billions+ %+ Notes
Nixon 121 34
Ford 87 16
Carter 178 30
Reagan 1604 161 2 terms
GHW Bush 1207 42
Clinton 1262 29 peace dividend
GW Bush 4217 72 war on terror
Obama 8438 71 2 terms
Trump 1 8081 40 covid
Biden 9208 32 covid
Trump 2 ~4000 so far
The last figure is since 2024, according to
usdebtclock.org
Historically Democrats reduce the National Debt
and Republicans increase it. There are academic
papers about it.
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/14/2026 5:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/14/2026 10:59 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2026 19:21:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
˙From 2019:
?The Coming Debtpocalypse? by Sarah Hoyt
˙˙˙ https://accordingtohoyt.com/2019/08/05/the-coming-debtpocalypse/ >>>>>>
?Well, pull up a rock and make
yourselves comfortable.˙ What if the
economy crashes?˙ What if our money is
worth nothing?˙ What if?˙ Are things I
can answer to.˙ You see, I come from a
Mediterranean country (not in geography,
but in culture.)˙ Which means I?m used
to governments that run their purses like
high school kids with an unending spending
account and addicted to meth.?
?I?ve seen crashes.˙ I?ve heard of
crashes from grandma.˙ NONE OF THEM KILLED
A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE POPULATION.?
Interesting perspective.
Lynn
And still coming as fast as it can in 2026.
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win
control of the House in 2026, they will fix
the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA
is running now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden
expanded the annual deficit from $1 trillion
to $2 trillion.
Once again you dwell in your own little world
with it's own imagined history.
Out here in the real world history shows that
the highest deficit of all time was run up by
trump in 2020. In˙ terms of GDP the highest
since 1945.
Of course, it's not easy to assign "blame"
as both presidents had to deal with Covid
and it's aftermath.˙ Just as Obama in his
first years had to deal with the aftermath
of Wall street's early 2000s crime spree.
But if we compare Obama's last year with
Trump's last pre-covid year, we see that Trump
had tacked on another hundred billion. And
Trump's 2025 debt is higher than that of
Biden in his last three years.
The last surplus was during Clinton's
presidency.˙ It was squandered by Bush Jr,
and since then you've never come close to
a surplus.
William Hyde
As mentioned, 2020 was the year Covid spread
across the entire planet like wildfire and we
thought it was a really bad disease like the
Spanish Flu.˙ Trump spent hundreds of billions
of dollars on a vaccine just to come up with
a vaccine a year after his Presidency that is
now appearing to have killed more people than
it cured.
I've spent the last 30 years working in
immunology and microbiology laboratories and I
can categorically and without any hyperbole or
doubt state that you are full of shit. Shut
the fuck up about things of which you're
ignorant. You're fucking killing people with
that bullshit.
I've spent the last 30 years working in immunology and microbiology >laboratories and I can categorically and without any hyperbole or doubt >state that you are full of shit. Shut the fuck up about things of which >you're ignorant. You're fucking killing people with that bullshit.
But Trump ran a deficit before Covid that was well above Obama's. He is
not remotely a fiscal conservative.
In article <10u8kq3$mdi6$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:
(right-wing health nonsense deleted, but it justified the response
below)
I've spent the last 30 years working in immunology and microbiology >>laboratories and I can categorically and without any hyperbole or doubt
state that you are full of shit. Shut the fuck up about things of which
you're ignorant. You're fucking killing people with that bullshit.
So, in 2022 I had the joy of encouraging people at UW to follow the
covid guidelines. This was very educational. I honestly don't know
how people think masks work, because however that is, it doesn't
seem to involve airflow.
In general, it seemed your average neolithic mammoth-stabber had
about as firm a grasp on disease theory as the people I encountered
on a daily basis. What made it worse was I was working in the Applied
Health Sciences building.
(I also noticed someone had added two small embellishments to the
building that made it impossible for anyone in a wheelchair to
get from one end of it to the other)
It worked before.
Clinton's surplus depended on a very good economy, but also two tax >increases, one by Bush the elder and one by Clinton.
Both presidents were reviled for them, and arguably it cost Bush his >reelection.
Credit to both men for a courageous decision.
On Sat, 16 May 2026 13:23:19 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:
In article <10u8kq3$mdi6$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:
(right-wing health nonsense deleted, but it justified the response
below)
I've spent the last 30 years working in immunology and microbiology >>laboratories and I can categorically and without any hyperbole or doubt >>state that you are full of shit. Shut the fuck up about things of which >>you're ignorant. You're fucking killing people with that bullshit.
So, in 2022 I had the joy of encouraging people at UW to follow the
covid guidelines. This was very educational. I honestly don't know
how people think masks work, because however that is, it doesn't
seem to involve airflow.
I suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
Seattle), but some other UW.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
<snip>
So are the mid-terms.
So you think that if the democrats win control of the House in 2026,
they will fix the $2 trillion annual deficit that the USA is running now?
History says no, the democrats under Biden expanded the annual deficit >>from $1 trillion to $2 trillion.
Your grasp of history proves insufficient.
You know, you can actual look this stuff up before making a fool
of yourself in public: (Source, US Treasury Fiscal Data)
Fiscal Year Deficit (Trillion$)
2016 $0.585
2017 $0.665
2018 $0.779
2019 $0.984
2020 $3.132 (Covid-19 Impact)
2021 $2.772 (Arguably the same)
2022 $2.375
2023 $1.695
2024 $1.833
2025 $1.700+
2026 projected to be more than $2.000 trillion
So aside from the bump in 2020 (Trump's last Budget),
the deficit was reduced _EVERY YEAR_ of the Biden
presidency.
Now, after the disastrous big ugly bill, and
the unnecessary war in the middle east, the
pie-in-the-sky golden dome, and his
random spending on fountains, ballrooms
and changing history in the national park system;
Trump and his congressional bootlickers have set us up for
higher and higher deficits going forward for decades.
On Sat, 16 May 2026 13:23:19 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:
(I also noticed someone had added two small embellishments to the
building that made it impossible for anyone in a wheelchair to
get from one end of it to the other)
Trump would be so proud: anti-DEI at work!
Alternately:
Our UW has a building so confusing that, at least when it was new, it
could only be navigated by explicit map including which entrance would
allow you to find your destination. IIRC, it was possible to go from
floor 5 to floor 3 simply by stepping while in a level hallway from
one part of the building to another.
I don't think wheelchairs were in that building's builders' minds
either.
In article <cr4h0ll05q6lmg83oe85e34e5vl0br0j80@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2026 13:23:19 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:
(I also noticed someone had added two small embellishments to the
building that made it impossible for anyone in a wheelchair to
get from one end of it to the other)
Trump would be so proud: anti-DEI at work!
Alternately:
Our UW has a building so confusing that, at least when it was new, it
could only be navigated by explicit map including which entrance would
allow you to find your destination. IIRC, it was possible to go from
floor 5 to floor 3 simply by stepping while in a level hallway from
one part of the building to another.
My UW has the psych building. Legend has it is supposed to resemble
a brain. The layout is confusing enough profs who teach in it get
lost.
I don't think wheelchairs were in that building's builders' minds
either.
40 years ago, one UW building, which legend said was designed
by an architect offended by accessibility requirements, had
a pair of doors enclosing a stretch of corridor. On their own,
they met the legal requirements. However, both opened into
the stretch of corridor and neither could be opened by someone
in a wheelchair from the enclosed stretch. Lobster trap.
And why I think we need two new parties,
both in the center, one a bit to the left,
the other a bit to the right, both willing to
talk to each other for the good of the country.
Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going
on in the USA right now.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going
on in the USA right now.
WTF are you talking about?
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going >>on in the USA right now.
WTF are you talking about?
Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
as police to protect their wealth, highways to
travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
those who deviate from their idea of proper
ideation and behavior.
Such as Democratic party members, others,
independent voters who value the Constitution
over the Orange Maniac, Transgender children who
defy their logic and buttoned down bronze age
values, all the LBGTQ+ crew and their allies.
But I bet, considering it is Lynn ,it is pesky
people who insist on breathing air that is
not filled with toxic fumes which will result
in in more heat deaths of persons living in
Temperate zones.
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
Yup, there is infinite demand for free
goods. And that is what is going on in the
USA right now.
WTF are you talking about?
Well, let's say you own a football
franchise.... local governments will compete
with one another to give you money to build a
new stadium. It's free goods being handed to
you by the government! So you take the mmoney,
build the stadium, and then move somewhere else
in a couple years.
You can do this with data centers and factories
too! Just take the free money and run away
with it!
When you suggest moving your operation into
a place they start offering free stuff! Then
when you suggest moving out they start offering
more free stuff! And the taxpayers pay for it
without complaining! It's like running a big
hose into the taxpayer's pocket and pumping
out money!
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:going
Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is
on in the USA right now.
WTF are you talking about?
On Sun, 17 May 2026 18:53:21 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
WTF are you talking about?
He's trying to pretend to himself that bottomless deficits are
something everybody wants.
On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:...
Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
as police to protect their wealth, highways to
travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
those who deviate from their idea of proper
ideation and behavior.
It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
estate in life.
If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
Or...?
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods. And that is what is going
on in the USA right now.
WTF are you talking about?
On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:...
Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
as police to protect their wealth, highways to
travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
those who deviate from their idea of proper
ideation and behavior.
It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
estate in life.
If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
Or...?
Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.
She wants everyone to be the same and poor.
Lynn
On 5/17/2026 1:53 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods.˙ And that is what is going >>> on in the USA right now.
WTF are you talking about?
You are foolish if you really do not not know what I am talking about.
Lynn
On 5/18/26 16:59, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/17/2026 1:53 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ Still you refuse to define your terms.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods.˙ And that is what is
going
on in the USA right now.
WTF are you talking about?
You are foolish if you really do not not know what I am talking about.
Lynn
Anyway we lived most of my
childhood on the cheap for the next attempt to climb out
of the class, whatever it was in the 1950s. So I cook for
myself, do my own laundry
On 5/18/26 16:59, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/17/2026 1:53 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ Still you refuse to define your terms.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
Yup, there is infinite demand for free goods.˙ And that is what is
going
on in the USA right now.
WTF are you talking about?
You are foolish if you really do not not know what I am talking about.
Lynn
On 5/18/26 16:58, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:...
Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
as police to protect their wealth, highways to
travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
those who deviate from their idea of proper
ideation and behavior.
It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
estate in life.
If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
Or...?
Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper
middle class and the wealthy.
She wants everyone to be the same and poor.
Lynn
No I want every person to have enough.
Presently I have a bit less than enough but I
can still get by. I see lots of people who are
much worse off than myself and maybe even if
they had what I have economically they might
not get by as well as I do.
That I get by as well as I do is because I have
other than purely economic resources. I have
mentioned before that I was strongly influenced
by my mother and by my step-father as they both
lived thru the Great Depression and step-father
was a striver who owned and managed serially a
farm, another farm, a rice farm, two different
restaurants and was a jack of all the trades as
he had a handy book that explained them in the
vernacular of the 1940s. Anyway we lived most of
my childhood on the cheap for the next attempt
to climb out of the class, whatever it was
in the 1950s. So I cook for myself, do my own
laundry and ride the MUNI in San Francisco. When
I was able to work I rode motorcyles and drove
cars but my condition is such that I can no
longer depend on my vision and reactions.
On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:...
Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
as police to protect their wealth, highways to
travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
those who deviate from their idea of proper
ideation and behavior.
It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
estate in life.
If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
Or...?
Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle
class and the wealthy.
She wants everyone to be the same and poor.
Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.
There are many, many, many more from the federal and state governments.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of
the freebies in the USA. There are many,
many, many more from the federal and state
governments.
It's true, those are examples of redistribution
of wealth. But of course so are the FBA program,
the Response and Relief act, the Economic
Injury Disaster Loan program and so many others
which take taxpayer funds and funnel them into
corporate boardrooms.
And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC,
and SNAP don't actually cost very much in
comparison.
On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:...
Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
as police to protect their wealth, highways to
travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
those who deviate from their idea of proper
ideation and behavior.
It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
estate in life.
If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
Or...?
Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
On 2026-05-18, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:...
Who can truly tell? Maybe the demand of the Very
Well Off for less taxation and maintaining all
the amenities of a semi-civilized society such
as police to protect their wealth, highways to
travel as they please, prisons to lock up all
those who deviate from their idea of proper
ideation and behavior.
It sounds like you believe said "Very Well Off"
are supposed to feel bad/guilty about their
estate in life.
If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?
Or...?
Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper
middle class and the wealthy.
You, sir, are an asshole.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
...
Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.
You, sir, are an asshole.
On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?...
Or...?
Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.
She wants everyone to be the same and poor.
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:want,
On Sun, 17 May 2026 18:53:21 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) >>wrote:
WTF are you talking about?
He's trying to pretend to himself that bottomless deficits are
something everybody wants.
It sure sounds to me like they are something both political parties
or else we would have paid the debts from the Vietnam war back long ago.
And "everybody" voting seems to be more or less happy about it.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:course
Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.
There are many, many, many more from the federal and state governments.
It's true, those are examples of redistribution of wealth. But of
so are the FBA program, the Response and Relief act, the Economic Injury >Disaster Loan program and so many others which take taxpayer funds and >funnel them into corporate boardrooms.
And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP don't actually cost
very much in comparison.
On Mon, 18 May 2026 18:58:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
<snippo>
If so, is that virtue signaling, or jealousy?...
Or...?
Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper
middle class and the wealthy.
She wants everyone to be the same and poor.
You wish.
She just wants them to behave less piggishly.
On Tue, 19 May 2026 14:07:14 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 5/18/2026 9:09 AM, oldernow wrote:
...
Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper
middle class and the wealthy.
You, sir, are an asshole.
If only for responding to an obvious troll.
On Tue, 19 May 2026 08:14:02 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.
There are many, many, many more from the federal and state governments.
It's true, those are examples of redistribution of wealth. But of course
so are the FBA program, the Response and Relief act, the Economic Injury
Disaster Loan program and so many others which take taxpayer funds and
funnel them into corporate boardrooms.
And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP don't actually cost
very much in comparison.
But the money is not going to the right people. It belongs to the
1%-ers (as all money does) but it is going to The Rest of US.
Attacking WIC/SNAP, BTW, is not very smart from the National Security standpoint nor from the Traditional Family Values standpoint, as the
point of the programs is to ensure children eat enough to grow up into 18-year-olds able to become soldiers and also to help single mothers
raise their children despite the disappearance of the male.
I do not say "the man" because /men/ do not desert their families.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.
There are many, many, many more from the federal and state governments.
It's true, those are examples of redistribution of wealth. But of course
so are the FBA program, the Response and Relief act, the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program and so many others which take taxpayer funds and
funnel them into corporate boardrooms.
And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP don't actually cost
very much in comparison.
--scott
Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.
She wants everyone to be the same and poor.
Lynn
˙˙˙˙No I want every person to have enough.˙ Presently I have
a bit less than enough but I can still get by.˙˙ I see lots of people
who are much worse off than myself and maybe even if they
had what I have economically they might not get by as well
as I do.
˙˙˙˙That I get by as well as I do is because I have other than
purely economic resources.˙ I have mentioned before that I
was strongly influenced by my mother and by my step-father
as they both lived thru the Great Depression and step-father
was a striver who owned and managed serially a farm, another
farm, a rice farm, two different restaurants and was a jack of
all the trades as he had a handy book that explained them in
the vernacular of the 1940s.˙ Anyway we lived most of my
childhood on the cheap for the next attempt to climb out
of the class, whatever it was in the 1950s. So I cook for
myself, do my own laundry and ride the MUNI in San
Francisco.˙ When I was able to work I rode motorcyles
and drove cars but my condition is such that I can no
longer depend on my vision and reactions.
˙˙˙˙bliss
On 5/18/2026 8:15 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
...
Bobbie is incredibly jealous of the upper middle class and the wealthy.
She wants everyone to be the same and poor.
Lynn
˙˙˙˙˙No I want every person to have enough.˙ Presently I have
a bit less than enough but I can still get by.˙˙ I see lots of people
who are much worse off than myself and maybe even if they
had what I have economically they might not get by as well
as I do.
˙˙˙˙˙That I get by as well as I do is because I have other than
purely economic resources.˙ I have mentioned before that I
was strongly influenced by my mother and by my step-father
as they both lived thru the Great Depression and step-father
was a striver who owned and managed serially a farm, another
farm, a rice farm, two different restaurants and was a jack of
all the trades as he had a handy book that explained them in
the vernacular of the 1940s.˙ Anyway we lived most of my
childhood on the cheap for the next attempt to climb out
of the class, whatever it was in the 1950s. So I cook for
myself, do my own laundry and ride the MUNI in San
Francisco.˙ When I was able to work I rode motorcyles
and drove cars but my condition is such that I can no
longer depend on my vision and reactions.
˙˙˙˙˙bliss
And what is enough ?
Your state, California, is getting ready to have a wealth tax and all of
the billionaires are fleeing.˙ Then they will move the wealth tax to the millionaires and they will all flee.˙ Then they will move the wealth tax
to the thousandaires and they will flee.˙ All that you will be left with will be the poor.
When the state walks up to a person and demands a a hefty portion of his money at gunpoint, bad things will happen.
I urge you to read "The Mandibles: A Family, 2029-2047" by Lionel Shriver.
https://www.amazon.com/Mandibles-Family-2029-2047-Lionel-Shriver/ dp/006232828X
"In 2029, the United States is engaged in a bloodless world war that
will wipe out the savings of millions of American families. In this
gripping dystopian novel, the ?almighty dollar? plummets in value
overnight on the international currency exchange, to be replaced by a
new global currency, the ?bancor.? In retaliation, the president
declares that America will default on its loans. ?Deadbeat Nation? being unable to borrow, the government prints money to cover its bills. What little remains to savers is rapidly eaten away by runaway inflation."
Tough times are coming.
Lynn
On 5/19/2026 7:14 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of
the freebies in the USA. There are many,
many, many more from the federal and state
governments.
It's true, those are examples of redistribution
of wealth. But of course so are the FBA
program, the Response and Relief act, the
Economic Injury Disaster Loan program and
so many others which take taxpayer funds and
funnel them into corporate boardrooms.
And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC,
and SNAP don't actually cost very much in
comparison. --scott
I note that you fail to mention the cost of
these programs. The cost of the three programs
alone that I mentioned is over a trillion USA
Dollars per year and rapidly approaching two
trillion Dollars per year.
I have no idea what the FBA program is. Nor do I
know the cost of any program that you mentioned
is. All you did was to mention a few unfounded
items with no backup whatsoever.
The choice is generally between candidates of two Parties, both of
which appear to like large deficits. So they vote per their habit,
their family tradition, or reasons not related to deficits/National
Debt.
Your state, California, is getting ready to have a wealth tax and all of
the billionaires are fleeing. Then they will move the wealth tax to the >millionaires and they will all flee. Then they will move the wealth tax
to the thousandaires and they will flee. All that you will be left with >will be the poor.
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
The choice is generally between candidates
of two Parties, both of which appear to like
large deficits. So they vote per their habit,
their family tradition, or reasons not related
to deficits/National Debt.
Yes.
Although it is true that one party talks about
reducing the debt while increasing it, while
the other party refuses to talk about the debt
while increasing it.
And we DO have primaries. Unfortunately far too
few people vote in them. There are many areas
where one party has a large enough majority
that the primary is where the real decisions
are made.
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:while
The choice is generally between candidates of two Parties, both of
which appear to like large deficits. So they vote per their habit,
their family tradition, or reasons not related to deficits/National
Debt.
Yes.
Although it is true that one party talks about reducing the debt while >increasing it, while the other party refuses to talk about the debt
increasing it.them.
And we DO have primaries. Unfortunately far too few people vote in
There are many areas where one party has a large enough majority thatthe
primary is where the real decisions are made.
On 5/19/2026 10:54 AM, Paul S Person wrote:governments.
On Tue, 19 May 2026 08:14:02 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.
There are many, many, many more from the federal and state
course
It's true, those are examples of redistribution of wealth. But of
Injuryso are the FBA program, the Response and Relief act, the Economic
andDisaster Loan program and so many others which take taxpayer funds
costfunnel them into corporate boardrooms.
And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP don't actually
suffer.very much in comparison.
But the money is not going to the right people. It belongs to the
1%-ers (as all money does) but it is going to The Rest of US.
Attacking WIC/SNAP, BTW, is not very smart from the National Security
standpoint nor from the Traditional Family Values standpoint, as the
point of the programs is to ensure children eat enough to grow up into
18-year-olds able to become soldiers and also to help single mothers
raise their children despite the disappearance of the male.
I do not say "the man" because /men/ do not desert their families.
Where did I attack those programs?
When the USA Dollar fails in the not so distant future, we will all
On Tue, 19 May 2026 17:39:26 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 5/19/2026 10:54 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 19 May 2026 08:14:02 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of
the freebies in the USA. There are many,
many, many more from the federal and state
governments.
It's true, those are examples of
redistribution of wealth. But of course
so are the FBA program, the Response and
Relief act, the Economic Injury Disaster
Loan program and so many others which take
taxpayer funds and funnel them into corporate
boardrooms.
And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC,
and SNAP don't actually cost very much in
comparison.
But the money is not going to the right
people. It belongs to the 1%-ers (as all
money does) but it is going to The Rest of US.
Attacking WIC/SNAP, BTW, is not very smart
from the National Security standpoint
nor from the Traditional Family Values
standpoint, as the point of the programs is
to ensure children eat enough to grow up into
18-year-olds able to become soldiers and also
to help single mothers raise their children
despite the disappearance of the male.
I do not say "the man" because /men/ do not
desert their families.
Where did I attack those programs?
When the USA Dollar fails in the not so distant
future, we will all suffer.
So, when you identify something as a "freebie",
you are not attacking it?
What are you doing -- approving it?
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Your state, California, is getting ready to have a wealth tax and all of
the billionaires are fleeing. Then they will move the wealth tax to the
millionaires and they will all flee. Then they will move the wealth tax
to the thousandaires and they will flee. All that you will be left with
will be the poor.
It could happen. But this is what was predicted in Massachusetts and
they did increase taxes considerably on the top few percent and nobody
left.
It'll be interesting to see. But most of the actually wealthy people these days have stashed much of their money offshore already, so I doubt it will make much difference.
If you're worried about state taxes, it's time to become a Delaware corporation.
--scott
On Tue, 19 May 2026 17:39:26 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 5/19/2026 10:54 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 19 May 2026 08:14:02 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP are just a few of the freebies in the USA.It's true, those are examples of redistribution of wealth. But of course >>>> so are the FBA program, the Response and Relief act, the Economic Injury >>>> Disaster Loan program and so many others which take taxpayer funds and >>>> funnel them into corporate boardrooms.
There are many, many, many more from the federal and state governments. >>>>
And if you look, things like Medicaid, WIC, and SNAP don't actually cost >>>> very much in comparison.
But the money is not going to the right people. It belongs to the
1%-ers (as all money does) but it is going to The Rest of US.
Attacking WIC/SNAP, BTW, is not very smart from the National Security
standpoint nor from the Traditional Family Values standpoint, as the
point of the programs is to ensure children eat enough to grow up into
18-year-olds able to become soldiers and also to help single mothers
raise their children despite the disappearance of the male.
I do not say "the man" because /men/ do not desert their families.
Where did I attack those programs?
When the USA Dollar fails in the not so distant future, we will all suffer.
So, when you identify something as a "freebie", you are not attacking
it?
What are you doing -- approving it?
I suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
Seattle), but some other UW.
University of Waterloo (in Waterloo, Ontario)
On Sat, 16 May 2026 10:22:31 -0700, Robert Woodward
<robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
While I'm in Vancouver which is a LOT closer to Seattle, there's noI suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
Seattle), but some other UW.
University of Waterloo (in Waterloo, Ontario)
question which of the two schools has a reputation as a top
engineering school and which doesn't :)
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2026 10:22:31 -0700, Robert Woodward
<robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
While I'm in Vancouver which is a LOT closer to Seattle, there's no >question which of the two schools has a reputation as a topI suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
Seattle), but some other UW.
University of Waterloo (in Waterloo, Ontario)
engineering school and which doesn't :)
Waterloo is famous for compilers and for John Vanderkooy, I think.
University of Washington is famous for Bruce Lee.
In article <10vgsuc$8n4$1@panix2.panix.com>,
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2026 10:22:31 -0700, Robert Woodward
<robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
While I'm in Vancouver which is a LOT closer to Seattle, there's noI suspect that is not the University of Washington (main campus in
Seattle), but some other UW.
University of Waterloo (in Waterloo, Ontario)
question which of the two schools has a reputation as a top
engineering school and which doesn't :)
Waterloo is famous for compilers and for John Vanderkooy, I think.
University of Washington is famous for Bruce Lee.
That's like saying that Ohio State University is famous for Curtis LeMay.
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