Carlos E.R. wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 14:10:56 +0100 :

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> Wrote in message:

On 21.12.24 12:18, Dave Royal wrote:

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> Wrote in message:

Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> Wrote in message:

B00ze <B00ze64@hotmail.com> wrote:

I'm an Android user thinking of getting an iPhone, and I see articles >>>>>>>> about apps that let ppl share files with their PCs, and I'm wondering >>>>>>>> why is there such an app? If I plug an iPhone into my PC's USB port, do
I not get access to the iPhone's filesysten?

No. All you see are photos and videos from the camera.

https://discussions.apple.com/welcome

So you don't need to go there.

Apple likes their walled garden. The article below mentions iTunes. >>>>> The OP didn't mention his PC's OS. iTunes runs on Windows. Maybe runs >>>>> under WINE on Linux. By its name, not sure if it only allows access to >>>>> media folders, or to all folders. Never bothered with anything Apple. >>>>>
https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/transfer-files-between-devices-iphf2d851b9/ios

Well, iOS is clearly off-topic as VanguardLH's first answer hints.
So I'll just say, as someone who uses an Android tablet, an
iPhone, Linux and Windows PCs (though not a Mac) that the iOS is
the most difficult to get stuff into and out off and and between
apps - by design - especially if you don't want to use a cloud
service such as Dropbox. I often use FTP.

Total nonsense. No reasonable person would do this. You can try but it
is only for people with a lot of spare time.

You're right: normal iPhone users would not do it. I mentioned it
because it's the nearest equivalent to transferring (non-camera)
files from an Android to a PC via USB. And I only do it to get
certain files onto or off my iPhone without using a cloud service
- iCloud, Dropbox, etc. Using a cloud service is the easy way to
do it.

Several iOS apps have FTP functions built it, such as my media
player, foobar2000.

So, you can not simply connect an USB cable to phone and computer and
the explorer pops up and handle the copy of any file in any direction?

How weird.

For the Android team to know (based on years of experience with iOS)...

As you're all well aware, I own plenty of Windows, iOS & Android devices.
And I don't use the cloud for anything - so I use USB & Wi-Fi file xfers.

I concur with all that said prior to this point in this thread (except
anything the moron Joerg Lorenz or Alan Baker ever says, both of whom are
in my killfile which has fewer than a dozen people in it for decades on
Usenet - they're that worthless) that Apple makes bidirectional file
transfer inordinately difficult - particularly for putting media onto the
Apple device - which can't be done directly.

Worse - if you add the iTunes abomination to Windows, you're subject to multiple zero-day holes as Apple's support has been historically terrible.

However, if you dual boot your PC to Ubuntu, if you know a few very
delicate tricks not widely known, you can get limited bidirectional USB
file transfer due to the Linux iFuse implementation Windows lacks.

Why Windows lacks iFuse is a mystery to me only those more knowledgeable
than I am can answer for the team, as iFuse is what Windows needs for this.

<https://i.postimg.cc/NFkXsJ0X/files01.jpg> iOS/Win is 1-way & DCIM only
<https://i.postimg.cc/L8b18Zmx/files02.jpg> iOS "Files" is nothing useful
<https://i.postimg.cc/d3SGkdgr/files03.jpg> Android is two way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/QMk7tvZW/files04.jpg> Ubuntu is two way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/qqg61Rh8/files05.jpg> Ubuntu, movies _to_ iOS on USB
<https://i.postimg.cc/Jhmy9KH7/files06.jpg> Ubuntu iFuse is just magical
<https://i.postimg.cc/KjK4nHwf/files07.jpg> Ubuntu is two-way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/3xcCBngd/files08.jpg> iOS is a dumb brick on Windows
<https://i.postimg.cc/mDx3xkp4/files09.jpg> iOS is only DCIM & only 1-way
<https://i.postimg.cc/9MGdc2s7/files10.jpg> Android is 2-way fast over USB
<https://i.postimg.cc/cChf8mx1/files11.jpg> iOS requires hacks to copy
<https://i.postimg.cc/pVJf72fN/files12.jpg> iOS hacks very often will fail
<https://i.postimg.cc/g269S8rT/files13.jpg> How does macOS work with iOS?
<https://i.postimg.cc/s2x0f9Js/files14.jpg> Linux, win10 & iOS together
<https://i.postimg.cc/fRtZFGSt/sharepod01.jpg> ditch itunes abomination

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldho (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Ed Cryer wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 11:25:16 +0000 :

I've been backing up iPads to Windows PCs for years, using iTunes.
The program is heavy and cluttered, but it does work and it gives me
access to all the books, pictures, videos etc. on the Pad.

I tried out a few other apps, such as iBrowse, but they promised more
than they delivered. And then I found out that they simply browsed the Windows files created by iTunes. Sneaky devils!

Ed Cryer is correct, however the installation of Windows iTunes
historically has been considered the canonical example of bloatware.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itunes-10-without-bloatware/>

Of course, with effort, you can remove most of the Apple bloatware.
<https://www.howtogeek.com/28727/how-to-install-itunes-without-extra-bloat/>

The Windows iTunes is poorly supported by Apple so it's also generally considered an example of unnecessary tools which add zero-day holes.
<https://cybersecuritynews.com/itunes-0-day-privilege-escalation-windows/>

The existence of so many 0-day holes shows Apple has never tested iTunes.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=window+itunes+security+zero-day>

Worse, when you add iTunes, you actually *reduce* Windows' functionality!
<https://i.postimg.cc/MT0CxMbZ/ipod007.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/rsj2G0KZ/ipod006.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/7hwyTMYT/ipod005.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/25LmpSK3/ipod004.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/RZF4RR17/ipod003.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/hPMKTwm4/ipod002.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/jdRsWKLk/ipod001.jpg>

Still, I have as many iOS devices (along with Windows & Android) as anyone does, so you just have to live with the fact Apple hates interoperability.

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldho (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On 2024-12-21 10:37, Ed Cryer wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Of course, with effort, you can remove most of the Apple bloatware.
<https://www.howtogeek.com/28727/how-to-install-itunes-without-extra-
bloat/>

Good Lord, pal; that article is from 2010, moving from Itunes 9 to 10.
I'm on 12 +++

Arlen (Andrew) isn't much interested in facts.

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Ed Cryer wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 18:37:29 +0000 :

Good Lord, pal; that article is from 2010, moving from Itunes 9 to 10.
I'm on 12 +++

Your argument against iTunes bloatware that it's "old" bloatware is absurd. Apple hasn't updated iTunes in years - yet you're still using it today.

If you're using iTunes on Windows (which even Apple has deprecated on Apple devices), it's still bloatware whether or not it's "old" or new bloatware.

Historically, the canonical example of unneccessary bloat was 'iTunes'.
It literally subtracts functionality (see the images proving that fact).

*The end of the world's infamous bloatware (iTunes) is nigh!*
<https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/the-end-of-the-worlds-infamous-bloatware-(itunes)-is-nigh!/>

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldho (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Theo wrote on 21 Dec 2024 12:52:51 +0000 (GMT) :

I'm an Android user thinking of getting an iPhone, and I see articles
about apps that let ppl share files with their PCs, and I'm wondering
why is there such an app? If I plug an iPhone into my PC's USB port, do
I not get access to the iPhone's filesysten?

iPhones don't have a filesystem.

Well, of course they do, but they really don't want you to see it.

The way iOS works is it's very app-centric. Apps own their own buckets of data which only they can see. The way to move things between apps is the 'Share' function, rather than app B opening a file saved by app A.

Of course files do exist outside the iOS world, so places like Photos, Videos, Music and Downloads have some kind of specialness in that apps can ask to open files from there (not generically - a photo app can't see
Music). But apps can't open files from other random places, and especially not files in the buckets belonging to other apps.

Has anyone here ever *seen* the iOS DCIM file system organization?
*If not, you're in for a big surprise!*

Files all over the place, in almost randomly named folders (such as
_201901) with randomly named image file names (such as IMG1234.JPG).
<https://i.postimg.cc/PJ4hWyS0/Apple-Iphone.jpg>

No other operating system refuses to allow you to name your image files.
Just Apple.

Meanwhile, every other operating system (except Apple's) allows the user to define how they want photo images to be named (using a sensible convention)
<https://i.postimg.cc/zfgrt8dC/Samsung.jpg>

Some day Apple will care about the consumer.
But that day hasn't arrived yet.

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldho (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On 2024-12-21 12:15, Andrew wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 18:37:29 +0000 :

Good Lord, pal; that article is from 2010, moving from Itunes 9 to 10.
I'm on 12 +++

Your argument against iTunes bloatware that it's "old" bloatware is absurd. Apple hasn't updated iTunes in years - yet you're still using it today.

Wow. You can't even read.

Apple's latest update to iTunes for Windows was released on exactly two
months ago today:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_iTunes#iTunes_12>

"12.13.4.4"

If you're using iTunes on Windows (which even Apple has deprecated on Apple devices), it's still bloatware whether or not it's "old" or new bloatware. Historically, the canonical example of unneccessary bloat was 'iTunes'.
It literally subtracts functionality (see the images proving that fact).

What "images"?

And "even Apple has deprecated"? Who OTHER than Apple could deprecate
Apple software?

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Ed Cryer wrote:

Alan wrote:

On 2024-12-21 10:37, Ed Cryer wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Of course, with effort, you can remove most of the Apple bloatware.
<https://www.howtogeek.com/28727/how-to-install-itunes-without-extra- bloat/>

Good Lord, pal; that article is from 2010, moving from Itunes 9 to
10. I'm on 12 +++

Arlen (Andrew) isn't much interested in facts.

Arlen, Arlen, Arlen.
WhoTF is this ghost who wanders the corridors of these newsgroups like Hamlet's father around the walls of Elsinore castle?
It used to be trolls; anyone either rather aggressive or possessed of an intellect that could enquire beyond the superficial ordinariness of
life. But now it's Arlen.

Ed

Arlen is famous. And he's everywhere. And apparently he is multiple
people, like some of the Hindu gods.



--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On 2024-12-21 12:24, Andrew wrote:

Theo wrote on 21 Dec 2024 12:52:51 +0000 (GMT) :

I'm an Android user thinking of getting an iPhone, and I see articles
about apps that let ppl share files with their PCs, and I'm wondering
why is there such an app? If I plug an iPhone into my PC's USB port,
do I not get access to the iPhone's filesysten?

iPhones don't have a filesystem.

Well, of course they do, but they really don't want you to see it.

The way iOS works is it's very app-centric.ÿ Apps own their own
buckets of
data which only they can see.ÿ The way to move things between apps is the
'Share' function, rather than app B opening a file saved by app A.

Of course files do exist outside the iOS world, so places like Photos,
Videos, Music and Downloads have some kind of specialness in that apps
can
ask to open files from there (not generically - a photo app can't see
Music).ÿ But apps can't open files from other random places, and
especially
not files in the buckets belonging to other apps.

Has anyone here ever *seen* the iOS DCIM file system organization?
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ *If not, you're in for a big surprise!*

Files all over the place, in almost randomly named folders (such as
_201901) with randomly named image file names (such as IMG1234.JPG). <https://i.postimg.cc/PJ4hWyS0/Apple-Iphone.jpg>

How are those "randomly named".

It appears that they're named in the absolutely ordinary way of
sequentially numbered.

No other operating system refuses to allow you to name your image files.
Just Apple.

Meanwhile, every other operating system (except Apple's) allows the user to define how they want photo images to be named (using a sensible convention) <https://i.postimg.cc/zfgrt8dC/Samsung.jpg>

That doesn't show any proof that it's user configurable. It appears it's simply a YYYYMMDD_HHMMSS naming convention.

And that seems pretty redundant as files already have
creation/modification date/time metadata associated with them.

:-)

Some day Apple will care about the consumer. But that day hasn't arrived yet.

LOL!


--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Hank Rogers wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:

Alan wrote:

On 2024-12-21 10:37, Ed Cryer wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Of course, with effort, you can remove most of the Apple bloatware.
<https://www.howtogeek.com/28727/how-to-install-itunes-without-extra- bloat/>

Good Lord, pal; that article is from 2010, moving from Itunes 9 to
10. I'm on 12 +++

Arlen (Andrew) isn't much interested in facts.

Arlen, Arlen, Arlen.
WhoTF is this ghost who wanders the corridors of these newsgroups like
Hamlet's father around the walls of Elsinore castle?
It used to be trolls; anyone either rather aggressive or possessed of an
intellect that could enquire beyond the superficial ordinariness of
life. But now it's Arlen.

Ed

Arlen is famous. And he's everywhere. And apparently he is multiple
people, like some of the Hindu gods.

Is that you Arlen?

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: To protect and to server (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Tony T wrote:

Hank Rogers wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:

Alan wrote:

On 2024-12-21 10:37, Ed Cryer wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Of course, with effort, you can remove most of the Apple bloatware. >>>>>> <https://www.howtogeek.com/28727/how-to-install-itunes-without-extra- >>>>>> bloat/>

Good Lord, pal; that article is from 2010, moving from Itunes 9 to
10. I'm on 12 +++

Arlen (Andrew) isn't much interested in facts.

Arlen, Arlen, Arlen.
WhoTF is this ghost who wanders the corridors of these newsgroups
like Hamlet's father around the walls of Elsinore castle?
It used to be trolls; anyone either rather aggressive or possessed of
an intellect that could enquire beyond the superficial ordinariness
of life. But now it's Arlen.

Ed

Arlen is famous. And he's everywhere. And apparently he is multiple
people, like some of the Hindu gods.

Is that you Arlen?

It's me It's me, tony t



--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)