• Re: Why Am I Being Asked to "Enter Network Credentials"?

    From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 9 21:30:57 2025
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:10el0q6$1top2$1@dont-email.me:

    On Thu, 11/6/2025 9:11 PM, Boris wrote:
    Looks like my wife's Dell laptop (Inspiron 13-7353, purchased June 7,
    2016) running Windows 10 Home, has finally died. It won't start.
    Nothing, completely dead. When plugged in, the charging light comes
    on, but that's all it does. No display, no sounds.

    On July 9, 2025, I wrote: "No Boot Device Found". I fixed the BCD
    Template, and the machine was up again.

    On September 5, I wrote: "Volume Shadow Copy Issue When Running Backup
    Software". Neither Macrium nor Acronis would recognize the SSD.

    There have been other notices, such as when trying to open a jpg or
    pdf, I get an error message that the application has not been
    'provisioned'. I've always been able to then set the application as
    the default, and move on, or use an other application to open the file,
    but the error then moves to the recently set default application(s).
    It goes back and forth.

    None the less, the machine was working, even with all the above issues,
    but it finally died today. I'm trying to get into the SSD using an
    adapter, and connecting to my desktop via USB. I've done this many
    times with other HDDs/SSDs.

    But when I do this with this particular drive, I get this message:

    https://postimg.cc/HJH6dKb9

    My wife's Windows 10 Home account is a local account, and never has had
    a Microsoft account, like me. And, we have no user name or password to
    log on to our local accounts. (I do have a Netgear router that does
    have a User and Password assigned, but that's only to look at network
    stats/settings/etc.)

    Do you know why I'm being asked for Network Credentials?

    Thanks.


    Windows Security

    Enter network credentials

    Enter your credentials to connect to: LAPTOP

    User name

    Password

    Remember my credentials

    The username or password is incorrect.

    OK Cancel | _________________________________________|

    v This PC

    OS (C:)

    songs (\\readyshare) (O:)

    Qdrv (\\readyshare) (Q:)

    v Network

    LAPTOP <=== This entry highlighted in File Explorer in the picture

    ************************************************************************

    If you go into Disk Management, does the drive appear there at all ?

    Nope.


    Perhaps there is executable content on the drive that somehow
    is getting triggered ("phishing"). It is almost like it is "walking off
    the end" of the This PC entry and selecting Networking, but if it did
    that, selecting and highlighting LAPTOP would be a separate step and
    Explorer could not do that itself.

    Yes, it should appear under This PC. It always has when I've connected it
    via SATA/USB adapter to the my Win11 desktop. I connected another HDD via SATA/USB adapter, and it also appeared under the Network, and not This PC. Furthermore, I connected both of these drives to a Win7 desktop, and they
    both appeared under Network and showed up under Network, with the name
    LAPTOP. I've never seen this.


    Since your picture shows the word "Laptop" in Networking is
    highlighted, it almost looks like an attempt to connect to
    something network related.

    It smells of "phishing" and I would use a different OS for the next boot cycle of the technician machine. Unplug the USB connector from the
    technician machine, boot with a different OS (read only DVD), and
    start your examination there.

    It could be a Dell-ism for FDE (Full Disk Encryption) of some sort,
    but a search in Google, Google is basically ignoring my search terms
    pretty well altogether. This means there isn't really a strong
    signal present for such a scenario.

    *************************************************************************
    **

    CoPilot Question

    A user connects a Win10 SATA SSD from a Dell Inspiron laptop,
    to a technician machine with a USB to SATA adapter.
    The response of the technician machine in File Explorer,
    is to present an "Enter network credentials" dialog box
    and (apparently) jump to the Networking section of
    the File Explorer sidebar.

    What content on the disk drive, would account for an
    attempt to access a network entry like that ?

    CoPilot Answer

    Look for `.lnk` files pointing to `\\` paths. <=== This sentence stood
    out.
    Rest of response was
    silly.

    Note that there was a very recent article, about an exploit for
    Windows, which uses .lnk files in email attachments. This would
    seem to have nothing to do particularly, with the thing you are
    seeing. I still don't know how the .lnk file gets loaded unless
    some other executable content (autorun.inf) is doing it.

    Summary: While it could be nothing, and merely "chance" at work,
    I would definitely be working on the disk from Linux now, even
    though some of my favorite tools are on Windows. It's a security
    issue now.

    Paul


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 9 21:41:09 2025
    Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in
    news:10elarg$212a1$1@dont-email.me:

    On 2025-11-07 02:11, Boris wrote:

    I'm trying to get into the SSD using an adapter, and
    connecting to my desktop via USB. I've done this many times with
    other HDDs/SSDs.

    But when I do this with this particular drive, I get this message:

    https://postimg.cc/HJH6dKb9

    On 2025-11-07 14:47, Paul wrote:
    v Network

    > LAPTOP <=== This entry highlighted in File Explorer in the
    > picture

    ************************************************************************

    If you go into Disk Management, does the drive appear there at all ?

    If his own description is to be believed, and we have nothing else to go
    on to say otherwise, it Looks to me like he's plugged the drive in the
    USB adaptor into one machine ('LAPTOP', I'm assuming 'LAPTOP' is NOT his wife's dead machine

    Well, yes, LAPTOP is how my wife's dead SSD appears on my Win11 desktop
    (under Network, rather than This PC).

    because obviously that's never going to work) and is
    trying to connect to it over the network from another ('desktop'). This
    is possible but ridiculously involved for what he wants to do, for a
    start he'd have specifically to share the drive on the laptop before he could see it from the desktop. Why not just work directly from the
    laptop

    The wife's laptop won't start...it won't 'turn on'. It's dead, so far.

    or just plug the USB adaptor directly into the desktop?

    That's what I've done. I think you may not have understood my post.

    Either
    would be much simpler.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Graham J@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 9 21:54:59 2025
    Boris wrote:

    [snip]

    or just plug the USB adaptor directly into the desktop?

    That's what I've done. I think you may not have understood my post.

    Open the desktop PC, identify the SATA connector(s) on the motherboard,
    and connect the SSD directly to one of these using a SATA cable. If
    there are no spare connectors you may have to disconnect an existing
    CD/DVD player. This should ensure that the SSD (if it is in fact
    working at all) is seen as a drive under "This PC".


    --
    Graham J

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 9 22:02:05 2025
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10ele3n$210tj$1@dont- email.me:

    On 2025/11/7 16:14:20, Graham J wrote:
    Boris wrote:
    [snip]

    None the less, the machine was working, even with all the above issues
    , but
    it finally died today. I'm trying to get into the SSD using an adapter
    , and
    connecting to my desktop via USB. I've done this many times with othe
    r
    HDDs/SSDs.

    Normally, connecting via USB shows the drive as a device letter: E: or

    F: or the like. So it appears under the "Computer" tree, not the
    "Network" tree.

    Just to clarify: Do you (Boris) mean you have removed the SSD from the laptop, and are attempting to access the SSD (presumably a SATA
    interface) via a USB-to-SATA adapter?

    Yes, exactly.


    If that _is_ the situation, what does the laptop do if you try to start
    it, having removed the SSD?

    It does absolutely nothing. Nothing lights up. I replaced the CR 2032
    cell, but still nothing. I suspect a dead batery.

    I would expect _some_thing - such as a "no
    boot device" message or similar. (I'd also expect it to be bootable via
    a bootable CD, DVD, or USB stick even if the SSD hasn't been removed,
    though it might be necessary to change boot order by some means - often holding down a key while powering up [Del or one of the F keys are
    popular], though this ideapad has a special hole that can be poked to
    bring up a menu.)

    []

    If you _are_ trying to access the SSD via an adapter, I'd agree with
    Graham that it would normally show as a drive letter - or more than one
    if it had more than one partition.

    Agreed.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 9 17:59:17 2025
    On Sun, 11/9/2025 4:30 PM, Boris wrote:


    Yes, it should appear under This PC. It always has when I've connected it via SATA/USB adapter to the my Win11 desktop. I connected another HDD via SATA/USB adapter, and it also appeared under the Network, and not This PC. Furthermore, I connected both of these drives to a Win7 desktop, and they both appeared under Network and showed up under Network, with the name LAPTOP. I've never seen this.

    OK, a search this time, finds a breadcrumb.

    https://superuser.com/questions/1386324/windows-10-windows-explorer-shows-a-working-usb-drive-as-a-network-drive

    net use /persistent:no

    Apparently, you had your wifes drive mapped as a persistent volume.
    And the OS must know some identifier from the remote session,
    that it is able to sense while connected locally, and this is
    causing a network-type response.

    The command there, disables all persistent mounts, so it is a
    bit of a hammer and not all that precise.

    Issue that command in an administrative window, shut down the machine, disconnect the USB adapter, boot up, plug in the adapter and see if
    this time, it responds in Disk Management instead.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 9 23:00:42 2025
    Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote in news:10er2k3$3j781$1@dont-
    email.me:

    Boris wrote:

    [snip]

    or just plug the USB adaptor directly into the desktop?

    That's what I've done. I think you may not have understood my post.

    Open the desktop PC, identify the SATA connector(s) on the motherboard,
    and connect the SSD directly to one of these using a SATA cable. If
    there are no spare connectors you may have to disconnect an existing
    CD/DVD player. This should ensure that the SSD (if it is in fact
    working at all) is seen as a drive under "This PC".



    Per your advice in your post of Friday 10/07, I connected the SSD directly
    to the motherboard, and lo and behold, the entire SSD was visible, and I
    could navigate all through it. Thanks.

    I purchased a Dell 14" Windows 11 Home laptop (16 GB memory, 512 GB SSD).

    My plan is to copy all needed data from the old SSD to this new laptop,
    then put the old SSD back into the old laptop, and buy a new battery to see
    if the old laptop will turn on and boot. If so, I'd like to do a clean (re)install of Windows 10 Home, and have this laptop as a backup.

    I will set up the new laptop with a local Sue account only, if Microsoft
    has not yet made that impossible.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 9 23:04:44 2025
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:10er6c7$3k6er$1@dont-email.me:

    On Sun, 11/9/2025 4:30 PM, Boris wrote:


    Yes, it should appear under This PC. It always has when I've connected
    it via SATA/USB adapter to the my Win11 desktop. I connected another
    HDD via SATA/USB adapter, and it also appeared under the Network, and
    not This PC. Furthermore, I connected both of these drives to a Win7
    desktop, and they both appeared under Network and showed up under
    Network, with the name LAPTOP. I've never seen this.

    OK, a search this time, finds a breadcrumb.

    https://superuser.com/questions/1386324/windows-10-windows-explorer-shows -a-working-usb-drive-as-a-network-drive

    net use /persistent:no

    Apparently, you had your wifes drive mapped as a persistent volume.
    And the OS must know some identifier from the remote session,
    that it is able to sense while connected locally, and this is
    causing a network-type response.

    The command there, disables all persistent mounts, so it is a
    bit of a hammer and not all that precise.

    Issue that command in an administrative window, shut down the machine, disconnect the USB adapter, boot up, plug in the adapter and see if
    this time, it responds in Disk Management instead.

    Paul


    That is interesting. I will try that and report back.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 01:18:34 2025
    On 2025/11/9 22:2:5, Boris wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10ele3n$210tj$1@dont-

    email.me:

    []

    Just to clarify: Do you (Boris) mean you have removed the SSD from the

    laptop, and are attempting to access the SSD (presumably a SATA
    interface) via a USB-to-SATA adapter?

    Yes, exactly.

    And you've now (you say in another post) been able to see all of it, so
    we know the SSD is OK, or at least readable.


    If that _is_ the situation, what does the laptop do if you try to star
    t
    it, having removed the SSD?

    It does absolutely nothing. Nothing lights up. I replaced the CR 2032


    Hmm. So it wasn't the SSD killing it (being able to access the SSD
    suggests it wasn't the problem anyway).

    cell, but still nothing. I suspect a dead batery.

    Can you remove the battery, and try booting it with just the external
    power supply connected? I don't _think_ that should harm it, but maybe
    others here can say for sure. If you do try this, leave the SSD
    disconnected ...


    I would expect _some_thing - such as a "no
    boot device" message or similar. (I'd also expect it to be bootable vi
    a
    a bootable CD, DVD, or USB stick even if the SSD hasn't been removed,
    though it might be necessary to change boot order by some means - ofte
    n
    holding down a key while powering up [Del or one of the F keys are
    popular], though this ideapad has a special hole that can be poked to
    bring up a menu.)

    []

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    'Do you like the chair?'
    'It's very comfortable.'
    'It provides the illusion of comfort, which is all that life really is.'
    - Douglas Adams arr. James Goss, 'Doctor Who and the Krikkitmen', 2018

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 9 22:17:10 2025
    On Sun, 11/9/2025 8:18 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/11/9 22:2:5, Boris wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10ele3n$210tj$1@dont-
    email.me:

    []

    Just to clarify: Do you (Boris) mean you have removed the SSD from the
    laptop, and are attempting to access the SSD (presumably a SATA
    interface) via a USB-to-SATA adapter?

    Yes, exactly.

    And you've now (you say in another post) been able to see all of it, so
    we know the SSD is OK, or at least readable.


    If that _is_ the situation, what does the laptop do if you try to start
    it, having removed the SSD?

    It does absolutely nothing. Nothing lights up. I replaced the CR 2032

    Hmm. So it wasn't the SSD killing it (being able to access the SSD
    suggests it wasn't the problem anyway).

    cell, but still nothing. I suspect a dead batery.

    Can you remove the battery, and try booting it with just the external
    power supply connected? I don't _think_ that should harm it, but maybe
    others here can say for sure. If you do try this, leave the SSD
    disconnected ...

    Inspiron 13 7353 11.1 Volt Li-Polymer Laptop Battery (3500mAh / 39Wh)

    It's one of those rectangular flat batteries that screws into the chassis with one
    of more mounting screws. It isn't the old style with the big connector, that hinges out when you "eject" it. It will require some work to remove it.
    It's not easy-peasy. Progress.

    A visual examination might find it is swelled. Don't really know for sure
    what to expect.

    Some of those rectangular ones have a pigtail, but the one site I was
    looking at, I think they were hiding the wire.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 06:19:50 2025
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:10er6c7$3k6er$1@dont-email.me:

    On Sun, 11/9/2025 4:30 PM, Boris wrote:


    Yes, it should appear under This PC. It always has when I've connected
    it via SATA/USB adapter to the my Win11 desktop. I connected another
    HDD via SATA/USB adapter, and it also appeared under the Network, and
    not This PC. Furthermore, I connected both of these drives to a Win7
    desktop, and they both appeared under Network and showed up under
    Network, with the name LAPTOP. I've never seen this.

    OK, a search this time, finds a breadcrumb.

    https://superuser.com/questions/1386324/windows-10-windows-explorer-shows -a-working-usb-drive-as-a-network-drive

    net use /persistent:no

    Apparently, you had your wifes drive mapped as a persistent volume.
    And the OS must know some identifier from the remote session,
    that it is able to sense while connected locally, and this is
    causing a network-type response.

    The command there, disables all persistent mounts, so it is a
    bit of a hammer and not all that precise.

    Issue that command in an administrative window, shut down the machine, disconnect the USB adapter, boot up, plug in the adapter and see if
    this time, it responds in Disk Management instead.

    Paul

    This is very strange. AS I said before, when the SSD is connedted
    directly to my Win11 motherboard, it appears under This PC, and I can
    stroll throught the entire drive, no problem.

    I removed the SSD from the Win11 desktop's motherboard, and reconnected it
    to the Win11 desktop using the SATA/USB adapter. In the past, it appeared under Network, but this time, it properly appeared under This PC. Huh? I
    have no idea why this happened.

    I was curious what would happen if I issued the command to disable all persistent mounts, but I did not as I wanted to leave well enough alone.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 06:34:53 2025
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:10erlfn$3nppm$1@dont-email.me:

    On Sun, 11/9/2025 8:18 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/11/9 22:2:5, Boris wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in
    news:10ele3n$210tj$1@dont- email.me:

    []

    Just to clarify: Do you (Boris) mean you have removed the SSD from
    the laptop, and are attempting to access the SSD (presumably a SATA
    interface) via a USB-to-SATA adapter?

    Yes, exactly.

    And you've now (you say in another post) been able to see all of it, so
    we know the SSD is OK, or at least readable.


    If that _is_ the situation, what does the laptop do if you try to
    start it, having removed the SSD?

    It does absolutely nothing. Nothing lights up. I replaced the CR
    2032

    Hmm. So it wasn't the SSD killing it (being able to access the SSD
    suggests it wasn't the problem anyway).

    cell, but still nothing. I suspect a dead batery.

    Can you remove the battery, and try booting it with just the external
    power supply connected? I don't _think_ that should harm it, but maybe
    others here can say for sure. If you do try this, leave the SSD
    disconnected ...

    Inspiron 13 7353 11.1 Volt Li-Polymer Laptop Battery (3500mAh / 39Wh)

    It's one of those rectangular flat batteries that screws into the
    chassis with one of more mounting screws. It isn't the old style with
    the big connector, that hinges out when you "eject" it. It will require
    some work to remove it. It's not easy-peasy. Progress.

    A visual examination might find it is swelled. Don't really know for
    sure what to expect.

    Some of those rectangular ones have a pigtail, but the one site I was
    looking at, I think they were hiding the wire.

    Paul

    Visual inspection shows no bulging. I'm going to order a new one to see
    if I can get this Inspiron 13 7353 up and running. It will be a spare
    machine.

    Bettery is as you say, a 43 Wh, type GK5KY, 11.1v.

    https://postimg.cc/yJVqjdbb

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 06:42:06 2025
    Windows Elf <windows.elf@outlook.com.invalid> wrote in news:10erne8$3al8s$1 @paganini.bofh.team:

    On 07/11/2025 02:11, Boris wrote:
    Do you know why I'm being asked for Network Credentials?


    Did you accidentally encrypt the disk? You said you were having problems with it, but then it started working again. It's possible that this is because you did something to the disk that caused it to be encrypted.
    People do all sorts of things without knowing what they are doing. I
    suggest you do the following:

    1) Open the Start Menu, type Control Panel, and select it from the
    results.
    2) Go to System and Security or search for "BitLocker" in the Control
    Panel search bar.
    3) Click on BitLocker Drive Encryption.
    4) Find the drive you want to decrypt/check (it will say "BitLocker On").
    5) Click Turn off BitLocker next to the drive.
    6) You may be prompted to enter your administrator password to confirm.
    7) The drive will begin decrypting. Do not turn off your PC until this process is complete.

    By the way this has nothing to do with Network so don't confuse the
    matter. Your image is not clear either. The password is to connect to
    the hard disk.








    I don't have BitLocker. My understanding is that it's only available in
    Pro editions. I have Home.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Graham J@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 09:01:07 2025
    Boris wrote:

    [snip]

    Per your advice in your post of Friday 10/07, I connected the SSD directly
    to the motherboard, and lo and behold, the entire SSD was visible, and I could navigate all through it. Thanks.

    It's nice to know I was right.

    [snip]

    I will set up the new laptop with a local Sue account only, if Microsoft
    has not yet made that impossible.

    You may have to Google for advice as to how to do this. Do ask again
    here if you get stuck.

    Do not create just one account!

    Initially set up the new laptop with a Local Administrator account, and
    give that account a complex password that you will guarantee to remember.

    Use this Administrator account to create a Standard User account for
    your wife. Give it a password that she will remember and can type
    easily: this will save you untold problems in the future.

    When she wants to install a program, or if she is asked to provide the "Administrator" password, find out what she is trying to do and if
    you're happy that her activity is kosher, then complete the work for her
    so that she doesn't see you type the "Administrator" password. With any
    luck this will reduce the risk of her installing malware!

    One more thing: set up a regular and frequent (daily?) backup procedure
    so that when the next SSD or motherboard dies, you smile sweetly and
    recover your data from the backup. Ask advice here if you're not
    confident with this.


    --
    Graham J

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ...w¡ñ?±?ñ@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 02:13:06 2025
    Boris wrote on 11/9/2025 11:42 PM:
    Windows Elf <windows.elf@outlook.com.invalid> wrote in news:10erne8$3al8s$1 @paganini.bofh.team:

    On 07/11/2025 02:11, Boris wrote:
    Do you know why I'm being asked for Network Credentials?


    Did you accidentally encrypt the disk? You said you were having problems
    with it, but then it started working again. It's possible that this is
    because you did something to the disk that caused it to be encrypted.
    People do all sorts of things without knowing what they are doing. I
    suggest you do the following:

    1) Open the Start Menu, type Control Panel, and select it from the
    results.
    2) Go to System and Security or search for "BitLocker" in the Control
    Panel search bar.
    3) Click on BitLocker Drive Encryption.
    4) Find the drive you want to decrypt/check (it will say "BitLocker On").
    5) Click Turn off BitLocker next to the drive.
    6) You may be prompted to enter your administrator password to confirm.
    7) The drive will begin decrypting. Do not turn off your PC until this
    process is complete.

    By the way this has nothing to do with Network so don't confuse the
    matter. Your image is not clear either. The password is to connect to
    the hard disk.








    I don't have BitLocker. My understanding is that it's only available in
    Pro editions. I have Home.

    Home does not include/support Bitlocker full program, yet Home does support/provide Device Encryption.
    - the latter, Device Encryption, is just a stripped down simple(user friendly) method of BitLocker for Home. Does not have all the user
    controls and settings(e.g. no encrypting individual drives).
    MSFT Account logon => when Device Encryption is Enabled, functions automatically and recovery key backed up to MSFT account.

    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 11:05:43 2025
    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    [...]

    [About Boris' wife's 'dead' laptop:]

    Can you remove the battery, and try booting it with just the external
    power supply connected? I don't _think_ that should harm it, but maybe
    others here can say for sure. If you do try this, leave the SSD
    disconnected ...

    Removing the battery *should* do no harm, assuming a sensible design,
    which should be the case for a Dell laptop.

    We've run my wife's (HP) laptop for years on end without the battery,
    as a pseudo-'desktop' (with large display and seperate keyboard and
    mouse).

    [...]

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 11:12:50 2025
    ...w??? <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
    Boris wrote on 11/9/2025 11:42 PM:
    Windows Elf <windows.elf@outlook.com.invalid> wrote in news:10erne8$3al8s$1 @paganini.bofh.team:

    On 07/11/2025 02:11, Boris wrote:
    Do you know why I'm being asked for Network Credentials?

    Did you accidentally encrypt the disk? ...
    [...]
    I don't have BitLocker. My understanding is that it's only available in Pro editions. I have Home.

    Home does not include/support Bitlocker full program, yet Home does support/provide Device Encryption.
    - the latter, Device Encryption, is just a stripped down simple(user friendly) method of BitLocker for Home. Does not have all the user
    controls and settings(e.g. no encrypting individual drives).
    MSFT Account logon => when Device Encryption is Enabled, functions automatically and recovery key backed up to MSFT account.

    But this is about Windows *10* Home. That didn't have Device
    Encryption, did it? (Yes, Boris desktop has Windows 11, but this is
    about the SSD which came from his wife's Windows 10 laptop.)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 11:35:41 2025
    On 2025/11/10 6:34:53, Boris wrote:
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:10erlfn$3nppm$1@dont-email.m
    e:

    On Sun, 11/9/2025 8:18 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    []

    Can you remove the battery, and try booting it with just the external

    power supply connected? I don't _think_ that should harm it, but mayb
    e
    others here can say for sure. If you do try this, leave the SSD
    disconnected ...

    Inspiron 13 7353 11.1 Volt Li-Polymer Laptop Battery (3500mAh / 39Wh)

    It's one of those rectangular flat batteries that screws into the
    chassis with one of more mounting screws. It isn't the old style with
    the big connector, that hinges out when you "eject" it. It will requir
    e
    some work to remove it. It's not easy-peasy. Progress.

    To me, "old style" is the sort that sits between the display hinges, and
    can be removed without opening the laptop!

    []

    Visual inspection shows no bulging. I'm going to order a new one to se
    e
    if I can get this Inspiron 13 7353 up and running. It will be a spare machine.

    []

    Before Boris wastes his money in case it _wasn't_ the battery at fault:
    _will_ it harm the laptop to remove the battery, then connect the
    external PSU (what some people call the "charger") and try to boot
    (well, power up, to see if it shows "no boot device" or similar)?
    Normally I'd expect that to be safe, but I entertain the possibility
    that it might rely on the battery to keep the voltage down (which would
    be bad design but possible).
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Reality television. It's eroding the ability of good scripted television
    to survive. - Patrick Duffy in Radio Times 2-8 February 2013

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 06:46:26 2025
    On Mon, 11/10/2025 1:42 AM, Boris wrote:


    I don't have BitLocker. My understanding is that it's only available in
    Pro editions. I have Home.

    Bitlocker is a block oriented software encryption without Elephant Diffuser.
    It means the crypto content can be decrypted block by block or something.
    Maybe a cluster at a time. That function starts at Pro.

    Storage devices, it was announced years ago, would have FDE
    (full disk encryption). It would mean for example, if you were doing
    data recovery in a lab for someone, as you read the sectors, they are
    random noise. The "key" is stored in the drive controller somewhere.
    And by doing the reverse function, a sector read is converted back
    into plain text. Windows Home seeks to tap into that function.

    If you don't change the key, from the factory value, the drive reads
    out in plain text. If the key is changed (by the Microsoft OS), that
    serves to encrypt the drive, and the data only "comes back" if the
    correct key is entered into the controller. (You should be able
    to use the "manage-bde" utility to check the status of that.)

    The same thing is supposed to happen with office documents. They
    have a default encryption. The password is "velvetsweatshop". The
    office suite will attempt to use that password as a "default try".
    If plaintext comes back, office opens your document. If trying
    that password does not work, then office knows a real password
    (supplied by the user) is required. (The evidence collected with
    a hex editor, does not seem to be consistent with this description.
    I have a couple 500 page documents that allude to the
    presence of the scheme.)

    So the FDE works in a similar way. There is a default key (which
    is being used right now to protect at-rest disk content). But if
    the OS applies something else to it, that key can be kept in
    your MSA (on MSFT server) for recovery, and that key is then the
    "sorta equivalent of Bitlocker". It doesn't have the same numerical
    properties (difficulty to crack), but I bet it isn't far off. They might
    both be AES elliptic curve or similar.

    The drive one had some kind of bug or exploit for figuring
    it out, but that's been fixed at some point.

    Summary: While the real BitLocker is applied by Pro, Home has
    its own little scheme that uses a feature of modern
    disk controllers. Years ago, a press release announced
    HDD would have FDE, and all drives would have it
    by a certain date. I think they were a little late delivering,
    but it should be present in HDD and SSD and NVMe and so on
    by now. USB sticks are more ad-hoc, and by continuing to ship
    ancient controller chips, some at least will have no function
    like that. On USB sticks it is considered a "feature", and
    the more expensive offerings have an option for encryption.

    One consequence of FDE, is if you are doing data recovery
    at home, and your Seagate drive needs a "look-alike controller
    board", the crypto key chip must be transferred from the dead
    controller to the new controller board. The chip is not labeled,
    and it is one of three 8 pin DIPs. And the old chip must be
    unsoldered and fitted to the new controller, if you expect to
    read your data. If you connect the new controller board to the
    HDD, you can erase the drive and just use it for new storage, but
    not be able to extract the old data. The new controller board
    still "works", but not intelligibly without a chip transfer.
    This is not a job I would look forward to (soldering isn't as
    easy as it used to be, I damaged a plugin board while working
    on it, everything I touched was ruination).

    If instead, I had one of my old 40GB Maxtor drives, no chip
    transfer is needed on those controllers. And if two legacy drives
    were identical and purchased from the same lot, I might easily swap
    controller board on them without affecting the data.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 12:44:18 2025
    On Mon, 11/10/2025 6:35 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:


    Before Boris wastes his money in case it _wasn't_ the battery at fault: _will_ it harm the laptop to remove the battery, then connect the
    external PSU (what some people call the "charger") and try to boot
    (well, power up, to see if it shows "no boot device" or similar)?
    Normally I'd expect that to be safe, but I entertain the possibility
    that it might rely on the battery to keep the voltage down (which would
    be bad design but possible).


    The "keeping the voltage down" was a NiCd chemistry thing.
    We are no longer those kinds of cretins :-)

    Lithium does not tolerate abuse, and you cannot use it
    as a "regulator" the way the leaking NiCd scheme worked.

    If the connection to the battery pack reads "zero volts",
    the power management IC has to assume the pack is
    below the knee voltage and it can no longer be
    charged. If there is a MOSFET in that path, it would be
    biased in the non-conducting state.

    There is no reason for the Boris laptop to work any different
    than the Paul laptop. The Paul laptop runs just fine with
    the pack flipped out. I used to do Windows Update that way :-)

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ...w¡ñ?±?ñ@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 11:26:25 2025
    Frank Slootweg wrote on 11/10/2025 4:12 AM:
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤ <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
    Boris wrote on 11/9/2025 11:42 PM:
    Windows Elf <windows.elf@outlook.com.invalid> wrote in news:10erne8$3al8s$1 >>> @paganini.bofh.team:

    On 07/11/2025 02:11, Boris wrote:
    Do you know why I'm being asked for Network Credentials?

    Did you accidentally encrypt the disk? ...
    [...]
    I don't have BitLocker. My understanding is that it's only available in >>> Pro editions. I have Home.

    Home does not include/support Bitlocker full program, yet Home does
    support/provide Device Encryption.
    - the latter, Device Encryption, is just a stripped down simple(user
    friendly) method of BitLocker for Home. Does not have all the user
    controls and settings(e.g. no encrypting individual drives).
    MSFT Account logon => when Device Encryption is Enabled, functions
    automatically and recovery key backed up to MSFT account.

    But this is about Windows *10* Home. That didn't have Device
    Encryption, did it? (Yes, Boris desktop has Windows 11, but this is
    about the SSD which came from his wife's Windows 10 laptop.)

    Applies to Windows 10 Home and Windows 11 Home.

    Not all 'Home' devices may have the option. A few reasons:
    TPM not present, not enabled in UEFI/BIOS
    WinRE not configured

    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 19:02:14 2025
    ...w??? <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
    Frank Slootweg wrote on 11/10/2025 4:12 AM:
    ...w??? <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
    [...]
    Home does not include/support Bitlocker full program, yet Home does
    support/provide Device Encryption.
    - the latter, Device Encryption, is just a stripped down simple(user
    friendly) method of BitLocker for Home. Does not have all the user
    controls and settings(e.g. no encrypting individual drives).
    MSFT Account logon => when Device Encryption is Enabled, functions
    automatically and recovery key backed up to MSFT account.

    But this is about Windows *10* Home. That didn't have Device
    Encryption, did it? (Yes, Boris desktop has Windows 11, but this is
    about the SSD which came from his wife's Windows 10 laptop.)

    Applies to Windows 10 Home and Windows 11 Home.

    Not all 'Home' devices may have the option. A few reasons:
    TPM not present, not enabled in UEFI/BIOS
    WinRE not configured

    Ah! Thanks. Many (most?) Windows 10 systems probably won't have a TPM
    and those which have one, probably haven't enabled it, so that explains
    my thinking.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 00:05:10 2025
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10esimd$3usco$1@dont- email.me:

    On 2025/11/10 6:34:53, Boris wrote:
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:10erlfn$3nppm$1@dont-email.m
    e:

    On Sun, 11/9/2025 8:18 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    []

    Can you remove the battery, and try booting it with just the external

    power supply connected? I don't _think_ that should harm it, but mayb
    e
    others here can say for sure. If you do try this, leave the SSD
    disconnected ...

    Inspiron 13 7353 11.1 Volt Li-Polymer Laptop Battery (3500mAh / 39Wh)

    It's one of those rectangular flat batteries that screws into the
    chassis with one of more mounting screws. It isn't the old style with
    the big connector, that hinges out when you "eject" it. It will requir
    e
    some work to remove it. It's not easy-peasy. Progress.

    To me, "old style" is the sort that sits between the display hinges, and
    can be removed without opening the laptop!

    Yes, those were easy to remove/replace.

    The last two laptops I've worked on both had 'integrated' batteries, as
    does my wife's new laptop. As you know, one has to remove the back of the laptop to get to and remove an integrated battery.


    []

    Visual inspection shows no bulging. I'm going to order a new one to se
    e
    if I can get this Inspiron 13 7353 up and running. It will be a spare
    machine.

    []

    Before Boris wastes his money in case it _wasn't_ the battery at fault: _will_ it harm the laptop to remove the battery, then connect the
    external PSU (what some people call the "charger") and try to boot
    (well, power up, to see if it shows "no boot device" or similar)?
    Normally I'd expect that to be safe, but I entertain the possibility
    that it might rely on the battery to keep the voltage down (which would
    be bad design but possible).

    I tried that, but no luck. Nothing happened.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 00:06:11 2025
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10esimd$3usco$1@dont- email.me:

    On 2025/11/10 6:34:53, Boris wrote:
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:10erlfn$3nppm$1@dont-email.m
    e:

    On Sun, 11/9/2025 8:18 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    []

    Can you remove the battery, and try booting it with just the external

    power supply connected? I don't _think_ that should harm it, but mayb
    e
    others here can say for sure. If you do try this, leave the SSD
    disconnected ...

    Inspiron 13 7353 11.1 Volt Li-Polymer Laptop Battery (3500mAh / 39Wh)

    It's one of those rectangular flat batteries that screws into the
    chassis with one of more mounting screws. It isn't the old style with
    the big connector, that hinges out when you "eject" it. It will requir
    e
    some work to remove it. It's not easy-peasy. Progress.

    To me, "old style" is the sort that sits between the display hinges, and
    can be removed without opening the laptop!

    Yes, those were easy to remove/replace.

    The last two laptops I've worked on both had 'integrated' batteries, as
    does my wife's new laptop. As you know, one has to remove the back of the laptop to get to and remove an integrated battery.


    []

    Visual inspection shows no bulging. I'm going to order a new one to se
    e
    if I can get this Inspiron 13 7353 up and running. It will be a spare
    machine.

    []

    Before Boris wastes his money in case it _wasn't_ the battery at fault: _will_ it harm the laptop to remove the battery, then connect the
    external PSU (what some people call the "charger") and try to boot
    (well, power up, to see if it shows "no boot device" or similar)?
    Normally I'd expect that to be safe, but I entertain the possibility
    that it might rely on the battery to keep the voltage down (which would
    be bad design but possible).

    I tried that, but no luck. Nothing happened.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 04:15:57 2025
    Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in news:XnsB39298B52A29Enospaminvalidcom@157.180.91.226:

    Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote in news:10er2k3$3j781$1@dont-
    email.me:

    Boris wrote:

    [snip]

    or just plug the USB adaptor directly into the desktop?

    That's what I've done. I think you may not have understood my post.

    Open the desktop PC, identify the SATA connector(s) on the motherboard,
    and connect the SSD directly to one of these using a SATA cable. If
    there are no spare connectors you may have to disconnect an existing
    CD/DVD player. This should ensure that the SSD (if it is in fact
    working at all) is seen as a drive under "This PC".



    Per your advice in your post of Friday 10/07, I connected the SSD
    directly to the motherboard, and lo and behold, the entire SSD was
    visible, and I could navigate all through it. Thanks.

    I purchased a Dell 14" Windows 11 Home laptop (16 GB memory, 512 GB
    SSD).

    My plan is to copy all needed data from the old SSD to this new laptop,
    then put the old SSD back into the old laptop, and buy a new battery to
    see if the old laptop will turn on and boot. If so, I'd like to do a
    clean (re)install of Windows 10 Home, and have this laptop as a backup.

    I will set up the new laptop with a local Sue account only, if Microsoft
    has not yet made that impossible.

    Using the instructions below, with one modification found on reddit, I was
    able to set up a local (non-Microsoft) account:

    https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft-ac count

    The modification is that 'Shift + F10' will not get you into a command
    promp; one has to issue an 'Fn + Shift + F10', to get into the command
    prompt. From there, I set up a local account and copied over whatever was needed (email, documents, downloads...) from the old laptop.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 13:40:36 2025
    On 2025/11/12 0:6:11, Boris wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10esimd$3usco$1@dont-

    email.me:

    []

    Before Boris wastes his money in case it _wasn't_ the battery at fault
    :
    _will_ it harm the laptop to remove the battery, then connect the
    external PSU (what some people call the "charger") and try to boot
    (well, power up, to see if it shows "no boot device" or similar)?
    Normally I'd expect that to be safe, but I entertain the possibility
    that it might rely on the battery to keep the voltage down (which woul
    d
    be bad design but possible).

    I tried that, but no luck. Nothing happened.

    Hmm. Suggests it's not the battery at fault, so I wouldn't waste your
    money ordering a "new" one.

    A thought: look around the power-in connector: they're a common source
    of problems, and just reflowing the solder _may_ work. I know you said a
    light comes on, but a poor connection might be letting through just
    enough power to do that but not run the laptop.


    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Paxman, the man who has never used one sneer when three would do
    - Elizabeth Day, RT 2015/5/2-8

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 11:45:49 2025
    On Wed, 11/12/2025 8:40 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/11/12 0:6:11, Boris wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10esimd$3usco$1@dont-
    email.me:

    []

    Before Boris wastes his money in case it _wasn't_ the battery at fault:
    _will_ it harm the laptop to remove the battery, then connect the
    external PSU (what some people call the "charger") and try to boot
    (well, power up, to see if it shows "no boot device" or similar)?
    Normally I'd expect that to be safe, but I entertain the possibility
    that it might rely on the battery to keep the voltage down (which would
    be bad design but possible).

    I tried that, but no luck. Nothing happened.

    Hmm. Suggests it's not the battery at fault, so I wouldn't waste your
    money ordering a "new" one.

    A thought: look around the power-in connector: they're a common source
    of problems, and just reflowing the solder _may_ work. I know you said a light comes on, but a poor connection might be letting through just
    enough power to do that but not run the laptop.



    A computer can't start, if it can't come out of RESET.

    RESET stays asserted as long as Power_Good isn't there.

    Power_Good is the logical-AND of all power converter
    goodnesses.

    Just to point out, a number of things could cause
    a failure to jump to the "first instruction".

    *******

    You can use a negative test result as a positive test result.
    If you pull the RAM out of a desktop, it beeps the piezo
    in the No RAM Detected pattern. If you hear this, it
    verifies a bit of basic functionality, that you have come
    out of RESET and so on.

    Some amount of BIOS code is register
    based, and does not need scratch RAM storage to run. Later,
    after the register-based code has configured the RAM
    controller and the RAM starts, the code is in a better position
    to switch to conventional coding techniques.

    On a laptop, that's about the most practical "beep code" to trigger.

    On a soldered-down-RAM laptop, you have limited choices for
    that sort of test.

    I'm pretty sure Boris is stuck in RESET, or the power management
    has had a major failure of some sort. You could do the RAM test
    for fun though, as long as the cover comes off easily to do it.

    Some UEFI will fail, based on what they read off the hard drive.
    Disconnecting the storage may allow something to start, if
    that was the root cause of the failure. I have one 4TB Seagate
    drive here, if an OS is loaded on the disk, the Test Machine hangs.
    Only if the Seagate drive has a 4TB data partition on it, does
    that disk "allow" the machine to start. I have to use Hot Plug
    with that drive, to get past a boot and do maintenance on the drive.
    As you can imagine, this is very annoying, I checked and that
    version of the drive has no corresponding flash update for the
    drive firmware. (Such drive firmware is stored on the platter, as
    it's cheaper to do it that way.)

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 17:52:13 2025
    On 2025/11/12 16:45:49, Paul wrote:
    On Wed, 11/12/2025 8:40 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/11/12 0:6:11, Boris wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10esimd$3usco$1@don
    t-
    email.me:

    []

    Before Boris wastes his money in case it _wasn't_ the battery at fau
    lt:
    _will_ it harm the laptop to remove the battery, then connect the
    external PSU (what some people call the "charger") and try to boot
    (well, power up, to see if it shows "no boot device" or similar)?
    Normally I'd expect that to be safe, but I entertain the possibility

    that it might rely on the battery to keep the voltage down (which wo
    uld
    be bad design but possible).

    I tried that, but no luck. Nothing happened.

    Hmm. Suggests it's not the battery at fault, so I wouldn't waste your
    money ordering a "new" one.

    A thought: look around the power-in connector: they're a common source

    of problems, and just reflowing the solder _may_ work. I know you said
    a
    light comes on, but a poor connection might be letting through just
    enough power to do that but not run the laptop.



    A computer can't start, if it can't come out of RESET.

    RESET stays asserted as long as Power_Good isn't there.

    Power_Good is the logical-AND of all power converter
    goodnesses.

    So you're saying _absent_ battery could still stop it starting. (could
    he get past that by poking a bit of the appropriate voltage? Could be
    dangerous though.)>
    Just to point out, a number of things could cause
    a failure to jump to the "first instruction".

    *******

    You can use a negative test result as a positive test result.
    If you pull the RAM out of a desktop, it beeps the piezo
    in the No RAM Detected pattern. If you hear this, it
    verifies a bit of basic functionality, that you have come
    out of RESET and so on.

    Some amount of BIOS code is register
    based, and does not need scratch RAM storage to run. Later,
    after the register-based code has configured the RAM
    controller and the RAM starts, the code is in a better position
    to switch to conventional coding techniques.

    On a laptop, that's about the most practical "beep code" to trigger.

    On a soldered-down-RAM laptop, you have limited choices for
    that sort of test.

    I'm pretty sure Boris is stuck in RESET, or the power management
    has had a major failure of some sort. You could do the RAM test
    for fun though, as long as the cover comes off easily to do it.

    Well, Boris has transferred the drive to something to get stuff off it,
    so I assume he's opened the laptop already (unless it had a drive flap).>

    Some UEFI will fail, based on what they read off the hard drive. Disconnecting the storage may allow something to start, if
    that was the root cause of the failure. I have one 4TB Seagate
    drive here, if an OS is loaded on the disk, the Test Machine hangs.
    Only if the Seagate drive has a 4TB data partition on it, does
    that disk "allow" the machine to start. I have to use Hot Plug
    with that drive, to get past a boot and do maintenance on the drive.
    As you can imagine, this is very annoying, I checked and that
    version of the drive has no corresponding flash update for the
    drive firmware. (Such drive firmware is stored on the platter, as
    it's cheaper to do it that way.)

    Paul
    If the main processor won't start, would you expect the graphics "card"
    to? I'm thinking a _long_ way back, but I have a vague memory of
    something being visible on the screen, in the days when desktop machines
    had a specific graphic card, even if the mainboard wasn't running (I
    _think_ even if the processor was unplugged, not sure about that).


    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    The best things in life aren't things. - Bear Grylls (RT 2015/2/14-20)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ...w¡ñ?±?ñ@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 11:04:47 2025
    Boris wrote on 11/11/2025 9:15 PM:

    Using the instructions below, with one modification found on reddit, I was able to set up a local (non-Microsoft) account:

    https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft-ac count

    <https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft-account>

    Broken link fixed.



    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 19:21:24 2025
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:10f2dju$1ioeo$1@dont-email.me:

    On Wed, 11/12/2025 8:40 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/11/12 0:6:11, Boris wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in
    news:10esimd$3usco$1@dont- email.me:

    []

    Before Boris wastes his money in case it _wasn't_ the battery at
    fault: _will_ it harm the laptop to remove the battery, then connect
    the external PSU (what some people call the "charger") and try to
    boot (well, power up, to see if it shows "no boot device" or
    similar)? Normally I'd expect that to be safe, but I entertain the
    possibility that it might rely on the battery to keep the voltage
    down (which would be bad design but possible).

    I tried that, but no luck. Nothing happened.

    Hmm. Suggests it's not the battery at fault, so I wouldn't waste your
    money ordering a "new" one.

    A thought: look around the power-in connector: they're a common source
    of problems, and just reflowing the solder _may_ work. I know you said
    a light comes on, but a poor connection might be letting through just
    enough power to do that but not run the laptop.



    A computer can't start, if it can't come out of RESET.

    RESET stays asserted as long as Power_Good isn't there.

    Power_Good is the logical-AND of all power converter
    goodnesses.

    Just to point out, a number of things could cause
    a failure to jump to the "first instruction".

    *******

    You can use a negative test result as a positive test result.
    If you pull the RAM out of a desktop, it beeps the piezo
    in the No RAM Detected pattern. If you hear this, it
    verifies a bit of basic functionality, that you have come
    out of RESET and so on.

    Some amount of BIOS code is register
    based, and does not need scratch RAM storage to run. Later,
    after the register-based code has configured the RAM
    controller and the RAM starts, the code is in a better position
    to switch to conventional coding techniques.

    On a laptop, that's about the most practical "beep code" to trigger.

    On a soldered-down-RAM laptop, you have limited choices for
    that sort of test.

    I'm pretty sure Boris is stuck in RESET, or the power management
    has had a major failure of some sort. You could do the RAM test
    for fun though, as long as the cover comes off easily to do it.

    I'm not quite clear about what stuck in RESET means, or how to get out, if
    so. But for fun, I put the SSD back into the laptop, put the battery back
    in, removed the memory module, plugged the charger in (the white light
    went on), and tried to start the laptop. No beeps, no starting.

    I removed the charger, put the memory module back in, plugged in the
    charger, and tried to start the laptop. Nothing. While the charger was
    still plugged in, I removed the memory module. No beeps.



    Some UEFI will fail, based on what they read off the hard drive. Disconnecting the storage may allow something to start, if
    that was the root cause of the failure. I have one 4TB Seagate
    drive here, if an OS is loaded on the disk, the Test Machine hangs.
    Only if the Seagate drive has a 4TB data partition on it, does
    that disk "allow" the machine to start. I have to use Hot Plug
    with that drive, to get past a boot and do maintenance on the drive.
    As you can imagine, this is very annoying, I checked and that
    version of the drive has no corresponding flash update for the
    drive firmware. (Such drive firmware is stored on the platter, as
    it's cheaper to do it that way.)

    Paul


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 19:24:23 2025
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10f22ol$17evh$1@dont- email.me:

    On 2025/11/12 0:6:11, Boris wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10esimd$3usco$1@dont-

    email.me:

    []

    Before Boris wastes his money in case it _wasn't_ the battery at fault
    :
    _will_ it harm the laptop to remove the battery, then connect the
    external PSU (what some people call the "charger") and try to boot
    (well, power up, to see if it shows "no boot device" or similar)?
    Normally I'd expect that to be safe, but I entertain the possibility
    that it might rely on the battery to keep the voltage down (which woul
    d
    be bad design but possible).

    I tried that, but no luck. Nothing happened.

    Hmm. Suggests it's not the battery at fault, so I wouldn't waste your
    money ordering a "new" one.

    A thought: look around the power-in connector: they're a common source
    of problems, and just reflowing the solder _may_ work. I know you said a light comes on, but a poor connection might be letting through just
    enough power to do that but not run the laptop.



    The charging female receptacle is screwed into the case, and the wires from
    it lead to a plug that is plugged into the motherboard. There's no solder
    to 'reflow'.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 19:25:44 2025
    =?UTF-8?B?Li4ud8Khw7HCp8KxwqTDsSA=?= <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote in news:10f2i81$1k8ad$1@dont-email.me:

    Boris wrote on 11/11/2025 9:15 PM:

    Using the instructions below, with one modification found on reddit, I
    was able to set up a local (non-Microsoft) account:

    https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft
    -ac count

    <https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft -account>

    Broken link fixed.




    Thank you.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 19:37:50 2025
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10f2hgd$17evg$3@dont- email.me:

    On 2025/11/12 16:45:49, Paul wrote:
    On Wed, 11/12/2025 8:40 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2025/11/12 0:6:11, Boris wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10esimd$3usco$1@don
    t-
    email.me:

    []

    Before Boris wastes his money in case it _wasn't_ the battery at fau
    lt:
    _will_ it harm the laptop to remove the battery, then connect the
    external PSU (what some people call the "charger") and try to boot
    (well, power up, to see if it shows "no boot device" or similar)?
    Normally I'd expect that to be safe, but I entertain the possibility

    that it might rely on the battery to keep the voltage down (which wo
    uld
    be bad design but possible).

    I tried that, but no luck. Nothing happened.

    Hmm. Suggests it's not the battery at fault, so I wouldn't waste your
    money ordering a "new" one.

    A thought: look around the power-in connector: they're a common source

    of problems, and just reflowing the solder _may_ work. I know you said
    a
    light comes on, but a poor connection might be letting through just
    enough power to do that but not run the laptop.



    A computer can't start, if it can't come out of RESET.

    RESET stays asserted as long as Power_Good isn't there.

    Power_Good is the logical-AND of all power converter
    goodnesses.

    So you're saying _absent_ battery could still stop it starting. (could
    he get past that by poking a bit of the appropriate voltage? Could be dangerous though.)>
    Just to point out, a number of things could cause
    a failure to jump to the "first instruction".

    *******

    You can use a negative test result as a positive test result.
    If you pull the RAM out of a desktop, it beeps the piezo
    in the No RAM Detected pattern. If you hear this, it
    verifies a bit of basic functionality, that you have come
    out of RESET and so on.

    Some amount of BIOS code is register
    based, and does not need scratch RAM storage to run. Later,
    after the register-based code has configured the RAM
    controller and the RAM starts, the code is in a better position
    to switch to conventional coding techniques.

    On a laptop, that's about the most practical "beep code" to trigger.

    On a soldered-down-RAM laptop, you have limited choices for
    that sort of test.

    I'm pretty sure Boris is stuck in RESET, or the power management
    has had a major failure of some sort. You could do the RAM test
    for fun though, as long as the cover comes off easily to do it.

    Well, Boris has transferred the drive to something to get stuff off it,
    so I assume he's opened the laptop already (unless it had a drive flap).>

    There's no flaps or compartment doors to get to anything. Bottom cover removal is the only way to get to stuff.

    https://postimg.cc/crnFCrQJ


    Some UEFI will fail, based on what they read off the hard drive.
    Disconnecting the storage may allow something to start, if
    that was the root cause of the failure. I have one 4TB Seagate
    drive here, if an OS is loaded on the disk, the Test Machine hangs.
    Only if the Seagate drive has a 4TB data partition on it, does
    that disk "allow" the machine to start. I have to use Hot Plug
    with that drive, to get past a boot and do maintenance on the drive.
    As you can imagine, this is very annoying, I checked and that
    version of the drive has no corresponding flash update for the
    drive firmware. (Such drive firmware is stored on the platter, as
    it's cheaper to do it that way.)

    Paul
    If the main processor won't start, would you expect the graphics "card"
    to? I'm thinking a _long_ way back, but I have a vague memory of
    something being visible on the screen, in the days when desktop machines
    had a specific graphic card, even if the mainboard wasn't running (I
    _think_ even if the processor was unplugged, not sure about that).




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 19:46:05 2025
    Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in news:XnsB395764FC2677nospaminvalidcom@ 157.180.91.226:

    https://postimg.cc/crnFCrQJ

    Better viewed as landscape:

    https://postimg.cc/RNYqsZ8p

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 12 18:43:15 2025
    On Wed, 11/12/2025 2:21 PM, Boris wrote:

    I'm not quite clear about what stuck in RESET means, or how to get out, if so. But for fun, I put the SSD back into the laptop, put the battery back in, removed the memory module, plugged the charger in (the white light
    went on), and tried to start the laptop. No beeps, no starting.

    I removed the charger, put the memory module back in, plugged in the
    charger, and tried to start the laptop. Nothing. While the charger was still plugged in, I removed the memory module. No beeps.

    I'm pretty sure at the moment, we will not trick it back to life.
    Some flaw prevents forward motion.

    *******

    At one time, when we did hardware, we would generate an asynchronous
    reset signal. It was created by a monostable, had a fixed pulse width,
    and for fun we used to set that pulse width to half a second to one
    second. The signal would be active low, and an example would look like this.

    5V | ------+ +---------- (Active low RESET)
    | |___________|
    0V +------------------------------ time (seconds)
    T=0 T=0.5

    Each piece of logic receiving the signal, would stop functioning and
    enter the "first state" of its state machine. Such an activity, is
    the "ordering all the hardware into a known and correct state".

    When CPUs came along, a new issue came up. Not all the power converters
    charged their capacitors at the same time. There could be eight to ten
    "rails" that rise. We do NOT want the CPU to run, until all ten power
    sources are fully charged. They show this state of nirvana is entered,
    via a kind of "Power_Good" signal. It means "I have done my part to
    prepare for proper operation". When all power regulators report they are
    ready, then the CPU can be taken out of reset.

    We show the dynamic nature of RESET in this (CPU world) case, by drawing the waveform
    with uncertainty on the second edge. The RESET signal can only rise, when
    the tenth regulator is finished doing its thing.

    5V | ------+ -- --- -- ---
    | |___________/ / /
    0V +------------------------------ time (seconds)
    T=0 0.7 0.8 0.9

    OK, say that one of the power converters NEVER becomes ready. Draw
    the waveform for this case.

    5V | ------+
    | |_______________________________________________________ _ _ _
    0V +---------------------------------------------- time (hours)
    T=0

    Now the motherboard is "stuck in RESET". The signal never rises.
    All logic blocks are to "remain seated" until the RESET rises and
    it is "removed from play".

    The RESET button on the front of the computer (for computers that
    have one, the Dell struck this off), that RESET button allows
    entry into the RESET state again, and pressing the RESET button
    can cause an abrupt and dirty interruption on your computer. The RESET
    signal only remains low for the 0.5 seconds (as all the power
    converters are in the Power_Good state and there should be no
    delay exiting the RESET state).

    We need a minimum pulsewidth on RESET, using sound engineering principles
    to determine the width. In the old ("hobbyist") days, we selected
    0.5 seconds out of convenience.

    The CPU sets the actual requirement. It can be on the order of 100 usec
    to give one of the PLLs inside the CPU a chance to lock properly, and
    we need a stable clock inside the CPU for operation to commence.
    By looking up the min. RESET value on the CPU, we can adjust
    the circuit behavior to meet that requirement. But no harm
    is done to the CPU, if the signal stays in the active state for
    0.5 seconds or it stays in the active state for hours (and our
    computer "refuses to start"). The entire machine must be designed
    to function properly... for as long as it takes to exit RESET.
    If it takes hours, thermally we have to tolerate this. On the
    Dell Optiplex 780 the fan screams like a Hoover until the machine
    comes out of RESET -- that's how it "survives". We set the fans to
    MAX as a solution to thermal issues, that is one way to do it.
    More modern designs can have more clever closed loop feedback
    for this.

    In any case, that's just to describe how a failure of the
    machine to "sequence" properly, prevents forward progress.
    Any gate that is part of the RESET logic path can say
    "hey, I'm not ready, wait for meee...".

    You can bring a computer out of reset, it executes the
    reset vector and jumps to a magic address. But if the
    first instruction does not execute properly, the
    computer can crash, it can enter a state where it
    executes NOPS forever (or, until it is reset again).
    While the hardware inside the CPU may register
    a Machine Check Exception (MCE), there is no way for
    anyone to find out that is asserted.

    Your laptop has entered one of these states, and
    is currently toast, until you figure out what is
    going on. Sometimes, the symptom-set, the "little things"
    the computer was doing that seemed weird, those
    can hint what actually happened on the fateful day
    when it stopped.

    For example, when a computer here sent this
    beautiful puff of gray smoke out the PSU vent
    at powerup, that was a signal to me "hey, dummy,
    you've got about a week to replace this PSU before
    it blows and damages something". That's an example
    of taking note of a weirdness, while you have a chance.
    The puff of gray smoke, comes from a drying electrolytic
    capacitor, that is heating up a bit at powerup. When
    it fails short, there will be trouble.

    Paul



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Boris@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 13 03:31:33 2025
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in news:10f362i$1q7gv$1@dont-email.me:

    On Wed, 11/12/2025 2:21 PM, Boris wrote:

    I'm not quite clear about what stuck in RESET means, or how to get out,
    if so. But for fun, I put the SSD back into the laptop, put the
    battery back in, removed the memory module, plugged the charger in (the
    white light went on), and tried to start the laptop. No beeps, no
    starting.

    I removed the charger, put the memory module back in, plugged in the
    charger, and tried to start the laptop. Nothing. While the charger
    was still plugged in, I removed the memory module. No beeps.

    I'm pretty sure at the moment, we will not trick it back to life.
    Some flaw prevents forward motion.

    I've copied what's needed from my wife's old Win 10 SSD to her new Win 11 laptop. All is fine.

    I'm not able to resurect her old Win 10 laptop, but that's ok. Even if I
    were able to resurect the thing, it would just sit around and not be used.
    I'll keep the old SSD for fun, and the rest is going to the dustbin.

    Thanks much.


    *******

    At one time, when we did hardware, we would generate an asynchronous
    reset signal. It was created by a monostable, had a fixed pulse width,
    and for fun we used to set that pulse width to half a second to one
    second. The signal would be active low, and an example would look like
    this.

    5V | ------+ +---------- (Active low RESET)
    | |___________|
    0V +------------------------------ time (seconds)
    T=0 T=0.5

    Each piece of logic receiving the signal, would stop functioning and
    enter the "first state" of its state machine. Such an activity, is
    the "ordering all the hardware into a known and correct state".

    When CPUs came along, a new issue came up. Not all the power converters charged their capacitors at the same time. There could be eight to ten "rails" that rise. We do NOT want the CPU to run, until all ten power
    sources are fully charged. They show this state of nirvana is entered,
    via a kind of "Power_Good" signal. It means "I have done my part to
    prepare for proper operation". When all power regulators report they are ready, then the CPU can be taken out of reset.

    We show the dynamic nature of RESET in this (CPU world) case, by drawing
    the waveform with uncertainty on the second edge. The RESET signal can
    only rise, when the tenth regulator is finished doing its thing.

    5V | ------+ -- --- -- ---
    | |___________/ / /
    0V +------------------------------ time (seconds)
    T=0 0.7 0.8 0.9

    OK, say that one of the power converters NEVER becomes ready. Draw
    the waveform for this case.

    5V | ------+
    | |_______________________________________________________
    | |_ _ _
    0V +---------------------------------------------- time (hours)
    T=0

    Now the motherboard is "stuck in RESET". The signal never rises.
    All logic blocks are to "remain seated" until the RESET rises and
    it is "removed from play".

    The RESET button on the front of the computer (for computers that
    have one, the Dell struck this off), that RESET button allows
    entry into the RESET state again, and pressing the RESET button
    can cause an abrupt and dirty interruption on your computer. The RESET
    signal only remains low for the 0.5 seconds (as all the power
    converters are in the Power_Good state and there should be no
    delay exiting the RESET state).

    We need a minimum pulsewidth on RESET, using sound engineering
    principles to determine the width. In the old ("hobbyist") days, we
    selected 0.5 seconds out of convenience.

    The CPU sets the actual requirement. It can be on the order of 100 usec
    to give one of the PLLs inside the CPU a chance to lock properly, and
    we need a stable clock inside the CPU for operation to commence.
    By looking up the min. RESET value on the CPU, we can adjust
    the circuit behavior to meet that requirement. But no harm
    is done to the CPU, if the signal stays in the active state for
    0.5 seconds or it stays in the active state for hours (and our
    computer "refuses to start"). The entire machine must be designed
    to function properly... for as long as it takes to exit RESET.
    If it takes hours, thermally we have to tolerate this. On the
    Dell Optiplex 780 the fan screams like a Hoover until the machine
    comes out of RESET -- that's how it "survives". We set the fans to
    MAX as a solution to thermal issues, that is one way to do it.
    More modern designs can have more clever closed loop feedback
    for this.

    In any case, that's just to describe how a failure of the
    machine to "sequence" properly, prevents forward progress.
    Any gate that is part of the RESET logic path can say
    "hey, I'm not ready, wait for meee...".

    You can bring a computer out of reset, it executes the
    reset vector and jumps to a magic address. But if the
    first instruction does not execute properly, the
    computer can crash, it can enter a state where it
    executes NOPS forever (or, until it is reset again).
    While the hardware inside the CPU may register
    a Machine Check Exception (MCE), there is no way for
    anyone to find out that is asserted.

    Your laptop has entered one of these states, and
    is currently toast, until you figure out what is
    going on. Sometimes, the symptom-set, the "little things"
    the computer was doing that seemed weird, those
    can hint what actually happened on the fateful day
    when it stopped.

    For example, when a computer here sent this
    beautiful puff of gray smoke out the PSU vent
    at powerup, that was a signal to me "hey, dummy,
    you've got about a week to replace this PSU before
    it blows and damages something". That's an example
    of taking note of a weirdness, while you have a chance.
    The puff of gray smoke, comes from a drying electrolytic
    capacitor, that is heating up a bit at powerup. When
    it fails short, there will be trouble.

    Paul





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 13 11:43:25 2025
    On 2025/11/12 19:24:23, Boris wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in news:10f22ol$17evh$1@dont-

    email.me:

    []

    A thought: look around the power-in connector: they're a common source

    of problems, and just reflowing the solder _may_ work. I know you said
    a
    light comes on, but a poor connection might be letting through just
    enough power to do that but not run the laptop.



    The charging female receptacle is screwed into the case, and the wires
    from
    it lead to a plug that is plugged into the motherboard. There's no sol
    der
    to 'reflow'.

    Ah, that's a better design; sometimes that receptacle is mounted on the motherboard, and it's a (moderately) common fault for the solder about
    it to crack.

    Sounds like you've done all that's practical to do. Well, obviously,
    salvaging the SSD. Maybe the memory module(s) - you probably have
    nothing that uses the same sort, though (I tend to keep them anyway as
    they don't take up a lot of space). Other parts - optical drive if it
    has one, and the display, and the keyboard, and maybe the fan, but what
    would you do with them? You could ebay it as "for parts only" (or offer
    it to your local computer shop if you have one you like, for parts), but probably not worth the bother.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    ? too popular actually to be any good. - Alison Graham in Radio T
    imes 2-8
    February 2013

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)