On 8/10/2025 8:14 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-07 18:15, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-07 13:10, Daniel70 wrote:
On 7/10/2025 5:58 am, The Horny Goat wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
<daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:
And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my
Probationary Licence (so allowed to drive by myself),
Probationary Drivers HAD to display a 'P' plate, front and
rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM SPEED
LIMIT.
In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were
required to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to
have a licenced driver in the passenger seat while "N" is
what you got after successfully doing your road test and had
to display for your first two years.
Similar here in Victoria, Australia. From age 17 years, you can
get your 'L' (Learner) plates (Black 'L' on a Yellow
background) which entitles you to drive when accompanied by a
fully licenced, *SOBER* , driver. I'm not sure if they are
allowed to carry any other passengers.
When you pass your Drivers Test (You, your licenced driver plus
Test official), you get your 'P' (Probationary) Plates (Red 'P'
on White background) that you have to display whilst driving
for three years, I think.
Here (Spain) the L is used both for learning and during the first
year after passing the test.
However, during learning they are using a special "driving
school" car, which has also the school advertising on the roof
besides the L. After passing the exam, and obtaining the license,
they have to put a green L sign behind the rear side glass.
Sounds similar to the french system; you can only learn through a
driving school. Then display an "A" for three years after you pass
plus you have specific speed limits. Although, I don't know how
well this is followed as you almost never see these stickers on
cars.
I forgot to mention that all driving school cars have double
controls. I mean, the instructor has at least pedals, so instant
brake in emergency. Or acceleration.
And the exam is done in the same type of car, probably the same
physical car. The double pedal has a signal of some sort, so that the
examiner, sitting in the back, knows instantly of the instructor
intervention and fails the exam.
A relatively recent modification is that there is an specific license
for automated shift cars. But a person with such a license is
forbidden from driving a standard sift/gear car.
Similarly, here in Victoria, if you take your TEST in an Automatic car,
you are licenced to drive an Automatic car .... at least initially.
Our licences are for Ten years. I think, at the end of that ten years,
you are deemed to be competent to drive either a Manual or Automatic
car, so can drive either.
Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:
On Wed, 8 Oct 2025 11:14:47 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
In the UK the instructor doesn't go on the test, so the examiner sits
And the exam is done in the same type of car, probably the same physical >>> car. The double pedal has a signal of some sort, so that the examiner,
sitting in the back, knows instantly of the instructor intervention and
fails the exam.
next to the person being tested.
Yup. And they control the dual pedals, if present. Which happened to me during my second test. D'oh! Instant fail :(
Can't imagine having the examiner *and* instructor in the car during the test.
They use dual control cars in the UK as well but I don't know how
widespread they are.
Very. Although, not obligatory while learning nor when being examined.
You can even hire them for your own use. Which I did with both my kids the first few times I took them out. They can scratch a hire car rather than mine.
On 25/11/2025 6:36 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-08 13:16, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
Well, experience HAS to count for something, surely. ;-)Similarly, here in Victoria, if you take your TEST in an Automatic car,
you are licenced to drive an Automatic car .... at least initially.
Our licences are for Ten years. I think, at the end of that ten years,
you are deemed to be competent to drive either a Manual or Automatic
car, so can drive either.
They expect you to magically learn? :-)
On 25/11/2025 6:36 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-08 13:16, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
Well, experience HAS to count for something, surely. ;-)Similarly, here in Victoria, if you take your TEST in an Automatic car,
you are licenced to drive an Automatic car .... at least initially.
Our licences are for Ten years. I think, at the end of that ten years,
you are deemed to be competent to drive either a Manual or Automatic
car, so can drive either.
They expect you to magically learn? :-)
On 2025-10-08 13:16, Daniel70 wrote:
On 8/10/2025 8:14 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-07 18:15, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-07 13:10, Daniel70 wrote:
On 7/10/2025 5:58 am, The Horny Goat wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:
And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my
Probationary Licence (so allowed to drive by myself),
Probationary Drivers HAD to display a 'P' plate, front and
rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM SPEED
LIMIT.
In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were
required to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to
have a licenced driver in the passenger seat while "N" is
what you got after successfully doing your road test and had
to display for your first two years.
Similar here in Victoria, Australia. From age 17 years, you can
get your 'L' (Learner) plates (Black 'L' on a Yellow
background) which entitles you to drive when accompanied by a
fully licenced, *SOBER* , driver. I'm not sure if they are
allowed to carry any other passengers.
When you pass your Drivers Test (You, your licenced driver plus
Test official), you get your 'P' (Probationary) Plates (Red 'P'
on White background) that you have to display whilst driving
for three years, I think.
Here (Spain) the L is used both for learning and during the first
year after passing the test.
However, during learning they are using a special "driving
school" car, which has also the school advertising on the roof
besides the L. After passing the exam, and obtaining the license,
they have to put a green L sign behind the rear side glass.
Sounds similar to the french system; you can only learn through a
driving school. Then display an "A" for three years after you pass
plus you have specific speed limits. Although, I don't know how
well this is followed as you almost never see these stickers on
cars.
I forgot to mention that all driving school cars have double
controls. I mean, the instructor has at least pedals, so instant
brake in emergency. Or acceleration.
And the exam is done in the same type of car, probably the same
physical car. The double pedal has a signal of some sort, so that the
examiner, sitting in the back, knows instantly of the instructor
intervention and fails the exam.
A relatively recent modification is that there is an specific license
for automated shift cars. But a person with such a license is
forbidden from driving a standard sift/gear car.
Similarly, here in Victoria, if you take your TEST in an Automatic car,
you are licenced to drive an Automatic car .... at least initially.
Our licences are for Ten years. I think, at the end of that ten years,
you are deemed to be competent to drive either a Manual or Automatic
car, so can drive either.
They expect you to magically learn? :-)
On 2025-11-25 11:56, Daniel70 wrote:
On 25/11/2025 6:36 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-08 13:16, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
Well, experience HAS to count for something, surely. ;-)Similarly, here in Victoria, if you take your TEST in an Automatic car, >>>> you are licenced to drive an Automatic car .... at least initially.
Our licences are for Ten years. I think, at the end of that ten years, >>>> you are deemed to be competent to drive either a Manual or Automatic
car, so can drive either.
They expect you to magically learn? :-)
Sure, but the smooth handling of the gears and clutch is not an
automatic skill. And Spain is a very hilly country. Imagine parking on a steep slope.
I'm pretty sure in UK it's still same as when I took mine (1982?) - if
you take your test on an automatic, you're only licenced to drive
automatics.
I think the reciprocity arrangement means that a visiting USian can
drive anything, even if they've only ever driven automatics - not sure
why this is, maybe American licences don't differentiate?
I think most
hire companies know to ask when dealing with a USian, and only rent >automatics to those who've only driven them.
"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
I'm pretty sure in UK it's still same as when I took mine (1982?) - if
you take your test on an automatic, you're only licenced to drive
automatics.
I think the reciprocity arrangement means that a visiting USian can
drive anything, even if they've only ever driven automatics - not sure
why this is, maybe American licences don't differentiate?
You're right, American licenses don't differentiate. I learned on a
manual MANY years ago. I haven't driven one in several decades. It's
not that easy to find a manual transmission car here anymore.
I think most
hire companies know to ask when dealing with a USian, and only rent
automatics to those who've only driven them.
I think car rental companies here deal pretty exclusively in
automatics. If you want a standard, you have to ask for it, and you
may not be able to get it.
On 25/11/2025 10:41 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-11-25 11:56, Daniel70 wrote:O.K., so you start with parking on a gentle slope .... and then build up.
On 25/11/2025 6:36 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-08 13:16, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
Well, experience HAS to count for something, surely. ;-)Similarly, here in Victoria, if you take your TEST in an Automatic
car,
you are licenced to drive an Automatic car .... at least initially.
Our licences are for Ten years. I think, at the end of that ten years, >>>>> you are deemed to be competent to drive either a Manual or Automatic >>>>> car, so can drive either.
They expect you to magically learn? :-)
Sure, but the smooth handling of the gears and clutch is not an
automatic skill. And Spain is a very hilly country. Imagine parking on
a steep slope.
On 26/11/2025 12:22 am, Paul wrote:
On Tue, 11/25/2025 2:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-08 13:16, Daniel70 wrote:
On 8/10/2025 8:14 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<Snip>
A relatively recent modification is that there is an specific
license for automated shift cars. But a person with such a
license is forbidden from driving a standard sift/gear car.
Similarly, here in Victoria, if you take your TEST in an
Automatic car, you are licenced to drive an Automatic car .... at
least initially.
Our licences are for Ten years. I think, at the end of that ten
years, you are deemed to be competent to drive either a Manual or
Automatic car, so can drive either.
They expect you to magically learn? :-)
I learned how to drive a standard, while driving a tractor and wagon
train at work.
Oww! Were you a Wagon Train Boss, Paul?? Wagons HOOOOOOO!! ;-P
One of my summer jobs. Most of my work was "lifting stuff", and only
a couple times per shift, did the tractor need to be moved from A to
B.
On 26/11/2025 10:35 pm, Paul wrote:
On Wed, 11/26/2025 4:51 AM, Daniel70 wrote:Is that you standing by the Cart, Paul, or are you sitting in the shade under the tree?? ;-P
On 26/11/2025 12:22 am, Paul wrote:
On Tue, 11/25/2025 2:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-08 13:16, Daniel70 wrote:
On 8/10/2025 8:14 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<Snip>
A relatively recent modification is that there is an specific
license for automated shift cars. But a person with such a
license is forbidden from driving a standard sift/gear car.
Similarly, here in Victoria, if you take your TEST in an
Automatic car, you are licenced to drive an Automatic car .... at
least initially.
Our licences are for Ten years. I think, at the end of that ten
years, you are deemed to be competent to drive either a Manual or
Automatic car, so can drive either.
They expect you to magically learn? :-)
I learned how to drive a standard, while driving a tractor and wagon
train at work.
Oww! Were you a Wagon Train Boss, Paul?? Wagons HOOOOOOO!! ;-P
One of my summer jobs. Most of my work was "lifting stuff", and only
a couple times per shift, did the tractor need to be moved from A to
B.
This is the scale of the carts in my train. Up to six of these.
ÿÿÿ https://objects.lib.uidaho.edu/riegger/riegger171.jpg
Look in the lower right corner of the picture for the cart.
The cart is likely to be that high, so as to match the floor
level of the train car it pulls up beside. There should be a tongue
on one end of the cart, that fastens to a coupler on the
other end of the cart. When the tongue is in the upright position,
it can be applying friction brakes to the front two wheels. That helps
prevent your train from rolling away, when you disconnect the tractor
from the front tongue.
And rolling stock like that, is as old as the hills, and
Adam and Eve used to haul those around. But good solid construction.
You don't have to worry about it falling apart.
ÿÿÿ Paul
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