• OT? Can my neiighbor, whose wifi I'm using, see what I'm doing?

    From micky@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 26 08:55:57 2025
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm
    sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?. I would think
    not but just want to be sure. He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik. If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    My wifi has been giving me trouble since February, and last night on the upstairs computer, the cable internet would not work either. The Troubleshooter said the cable wasn't in, and indeed, I had sometimes
    gotten success by pushing it in further, a millimeter, but that didn't
    work last night. Even though the Verizon FIOS fiberoptic phone was
    working and the Verizon box has a flashing led for the cable that goes
    to my computer.

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a
    neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From micky@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 26 09:09:23 2025
    In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Wed, 26 Nov 2025 08:55:57 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:



    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a >neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my >laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.

    The VErizon wifi box is only 3 feet from the laptop. Just before it
    switched to my wifi, I had gone over there and lifted an 18" cardboard
    box with stuff (if you want to know what, I'll look) in it from between
    the wifi and the laptop, then 90 seconds later, I put it back where it
    was, but that probably is what caused it to switch, and I guess what
    made it use my neighbor's in the first place.

    The box has been there for weeks but I don't restart the laptop very
    often. Later I'll restart again with the box in place and see if it
    connects to my neighbor.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From knuttle@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 26 12:16:20 2025
    On 11/26/2025 8:55 AM, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?. I would think
    not but just want to be sure. He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik. If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    My wifi has been giving me trouble since February, and last night on the upstairs computer, the cable internet would not work either. The Troubleshooter said the cable wasn't in, and indeed, I had sometimes
    gotten success by pushing it in further, a millimeter, but that didn't
    work last night. Even though the Verizon FIOS fiberoptic phone was
    working and the Verizon box has a flashing led for the cable that goes
    to my computer.

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.


    Once I verified it was not the box, or something similar, I would call
    you ISP and request service. I do not see what could be in the box that
    would stop the signal from 3 feet away.

    When I access my router web site, there is an option to find the best
    channel, and one to manually select the channel used by the router.
    You may try these options.

    Which brings us back to my first comment I would call my ISP and request service.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 26 18:18:02 2025
    On 2025-11-26 14:55, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?. I would think
    not but just want to be sure. He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik. If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    Depends.

    That WiFi signal is probably not encrypted.

    Then you have to use encrypted protocols like https to connect on the
    web. Similarly for email et all. Usenet is often not encrypted.


    ...

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From micky@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 26 12:44:15 2025
    In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Wed, 26 Nov 2025 12:16:20 -0500, knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On 11/26/2025 8:55 AM, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm
    sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?. I would think
    not but just want to be sure. He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik. If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    My wifi has been giving me trouble since February, and last night on the
    upstairs computer, the cable internet would not work either. The
    Troubleshooter said the cable wasn't in, and indeed, I had sometimes
    gotten success by pushing it in further, a millimeter, but that didn't
    work last night. Even though the Verizon FIOS fiberoptic phone was
    working and the Verizon box has a flashing led for the cable that goes
    to my computer.

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a
    neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my
    laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.


    Once I verified it was not the box, or something similar, I would call
    you ISP and request service. I do not see what could be in the box that >would stop the signal from 3 feet away.

    When I access my router web site, there is an option to find the best >channel, and one to manually select the channel used by the router.
    You may try these options.

    Which brings us back to my first comment I would call my ISP and request >service.

    I'll do that.

    I'm glad my neighbor was there when I needed him. It shows one
    advantage of living in a townhouse. You can borrow wifi.

    And thanks to you and Carlos.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 26 13:43:36 2025
    On Wed, 11/26/2025 9:09 AM, micky wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Wed, 26 Nov 2025 08:55:57 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:



    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a
    neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my
    laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.

    The VErizon wifi box is only 3 feet from the laptop. Just before it
    switched to my wifi, I had gone over there and lifted an 18" cardboard
    box with stuff (if you want to know what, I'll look) in it from between
    the wifi and the laptop, then 90 seconds later, I put it back where it
    was, but that probably is what caused it to switch, and I guess what
    made it use my neighbor's in the first place.

    The box has been there for weeks but I don't restart the laptop very
    often. Later I'll restart again with the box in place and see if it
    connects to my neighbor.



    Your activities are partially hidden via https:// .

    That is why your banking password is safe.

    To hide the addresses, you could use a VPN. Then all
    the packets would have the VPN address as their destination,
    before the packets are decapsulated.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 27 12:45:56 2025
    On 2025-11-26 18:44, micky wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Wed, 26 Nov 2025 12:16:20 -0500, knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On 11/26/2025 8:55 AM, micky wrote:

    ...

    Which brings us back to my first comment I would call my ISP and request
    service.

    I'll do that.

    I'm glad my neighbor was there when I needed him. It shows one
    advantage of living in a townhouse. You can borrow wifi.

    Here most people protect their wifi with a password, so you can not
    borrow it. Sometimes I am at a flat with dozens of WiFis around, none open.

    This is not actually intentional, it is that now the free ISP routers
    come already protected.


    And thanks to you and Carlos.

    Welcome.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 27 12:49:59 2025
    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    [...]
    The VErizon wifi box is only 3 feet from the laptop. Just before it
    switched to my wifi, I had gone over there and lifted an 18" cardboard
    box with stuff (if you want to know what, I'll look) in it from between
    the wifi and the laptop, then 90 seconds later, I put it back where it
    was, but that probably is what caused it to switch, and I guess what
    made it use my neighbor's in the first place.

    The box has been there for weeks but I don't restart the laptop very
    often. Later I'll restart again with the box in place and see if it
    connects to my neighbor.

    You don't clearly say what your problem/concern is, but I think it is
    that your laptop connected to your neighbour's WiFi when you did not
    want that, i.e. an unexpected/unwanted connection.

    If so just set that connection, i.e. the SSID (Wi-Fi name) to not
    connect automatically.

    You've crossposted this to the Windows 10 and 11 groups and don't say
    which version your laptop is using, but for Windows 11, just do:

    Settings -> Network & internet -> WiFi -> '>' -> Manage known networks
    select your neighbour's nettwork -> untick the 'Connect automatically
    when in range' box.

    That way, your laptop will never automatically connect to your
    neighbour's WiFi, but you still can connect to it manually.

    If you do no longer want to use your neighbour's WiFi at all, just do
    a 'Forget' in the previous screen.

    Hope this helps.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mark Lloyd@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 27 16:29:19 2025
    On Thu, 27 Nov 2025 12:45:56 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    [snip]

    This is not actually intentional, it is that now the free ISP routers
    come already protected.


    And thanks to you and Carlos.

    Welcome.

    I remember years ago when routers came with wiFi enabled, but NO security.
    Now it would be unusual to find one without security.

    BTW, there is still a network here called "FBI Surveillance".

    --
    28 days until the winter celebration (Thursday, December 25, 2025 12:00
    AM for 1 day).

    Mark Lloyd
    http://notstupid.us/

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 27 17:13:15 2025
    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?.

    What you're effectively doing is the equivalent of transferring all your
    phone calls via his phone. If he chose to he could pick up the receiver and listen in to your conversations. Much of internet/web connections are
    encrypted so would be gobbledygook to anyone evesdropping. However, many
    things aren't - like usenet, some email services - which could easily be observed.

    Also even with encrypted connections the neighbour could see *where* you're communicating with so your bank, pension provider, health provider, etc.

    I would think
    not but just want to be sure. He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik. If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    You're including your neighbour in your computer network. There's a reason
    why organisations do everything they can to not allow external people into their networks. It's very risky.

    A "tech wiz" could comprise your network and install malware which gave
    them full and permanent access.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 27 20:08:39 2025
    On 2025-11-27 18:13, Chris wrote:
    You're including your neighbour in your computer network.

    Rather you are including your computer into your neighbour network.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 27 20:06:31 2025
    On 2025-11-27 17:29, Mark Lloyd wrote:
    On Thu, 27 Nov 2025 12:45:56 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    [snip]

    This is not actually intentional, it is that now the free ISP routers
    come already protected.


    And thanks to you and Carlos.

    Welcome.

    I remember years ago when routers came with wiFi enabled, but NO security. Now it would be unusual to find one without security.

    BTW, there is still a network here called "FBI Surveillance".

    Your neighbour has a sense of humour :-)

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 27 20:16:12 2025
    On 2025/11/27 19:6:31, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-11-27 17:29, Mark Lloyd wrote:
    On Thu, 27 Nov 2025 12:45:56 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    [snip]

    This is not actually intentional, it is that now the free ISP routers
    come already protected.


    And thanks to you and Carlos.

    Welcome.

    I remember years ago when routers came with wiFi enabled, but NO security. >> Now it would be unusual to find one without security.

    BTW, there is still a network here called "FBI Surveillance".

    Your neighbour has a sense of humour :-)

    I once came across a network called "show us your tits". (No, I did not
    try connecting to it! It was in Heaton, Newcastle, England.)

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Radio 4 is the civilising influence in this country ... I think it is
    the most important institution in this country. - John Humphrys, Radio
    Times 7-13/06/2003

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From micky@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 27 19:31:16 2025
    In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 27 Nov 2025 12:45:56 +0100, "Carlos
    E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-26 18:44, micky wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Wed, 26 Nov 2025 12:16:20 -0500, knuttle
    <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On 11/26/2025 8:55 AM, micky wrote:

    ...

    Which brings us back to my first comment I would call my ISP and request >>> service.

    I'll do that.

    I'm glad my neighbor was there when I needed him. It shows one
    advantage of living in a townhouse. You can borrow wifi.

    Here most people protect their wifi with a password, so you can not

    Here too but this guy must be an exception, just when I needed one.

    On a prior occasion decades ago, when I'd just gotten a laptop and I was
    to leave on a translatlantic trip the next day, then too I ended up
    using the next door neighbor's wifi, a different person then, and I was
    lucky because a lot of stuff had to be put into the laptop before I
    left. I don't remember why mine didn't work. Maybe I only had DSL then
    and his was faster.

    borrow it. Sometimes I am at a flat with dozens of WiFis around, none open.

    This is not actually intentional, it is that now the free ISP routers
    come already protected.

    I think mine had a password. His was Comcast's other name, which
    escapes me right now.

    I made a mistake not changing the password to something I could
    remember. they have to use one that no other subscriber to Verizon has.
    I'd only have to use one that no other neighbor had and no one around
    could guess, or use software to find. Didn't know how many times I'd
    have to enter it, the printer, the cell phone, the next cell phone, a
    TV, Alexa maybe, and a couple other things I didn't forexee and don't
    rmeember. I should have made it shorter and easier.


    And thanks to you and Carlos.

    Welcome.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 08:16:16 2025
    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    On 2025/11/27 19:6:31, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-11-27 17:29, Mark Lloyd wrote:
    On Thu, 27 Nov 2025 12:45:56 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    [snip]

    This is not actually intentional, it is that now the free ISP routers
    come already protected.


    And thanks to you and Carlos.

    Welcome.

    I remember years ago when routers came with wiFi enabled, but NO security. >>> Now it would be unusual to find one without security.

    BTW, there is still a network here called "FBI Surveillance".

    Your neighbour has a sense of humour :-)

    I once came across a network called "show us your tits". (No, I did not
    try connecting to it! It was in Heaton, Newcastle, England.)


    Of course it was in Newcastle!


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 08:16:18 2025
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-11-27 18:13, Chris wrote:
    You're including your neighbour in your computer network.

    Rather you are including your computer into your neighbour network.

    Fair. The risk is similar however.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From wasbit@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 08:47:26 2025
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?. I would think
    not but just want to be sure. He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik. If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    My wifi has been giving me trouble since February, and last night on the upstairs computer, the cable internet would not work either. The Troubleshooter said the cable wasn't in, and indeed, I had sometimes
    gotten success by pushing it in further, a millimeter, but that didn't
    work last night. Even though the Verizon FIOS fiberoptic phone was
    working and the Verizon box has a flashing led for the cable that goes
    to my computer.

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.


    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.



    --
    Regards
    wasbit

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 10:49:04 2025
    wasbit <wasbit@removehotmail.com> wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    [...]
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?. I would think
    not but just want to be sure. He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik. If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?
    [...]
    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.

    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    Huh? Micky obviously got his neighbour's permission to use his/her
    WiFi, otherwise how would he know the password?

    A quite different issue is if the neighbour's ISP would condone such a setup/use.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 14:57:20 2025
    On 2025/11/28 0:31:16, micky wrote:

    []

    I made a mistake not changing the password to something I could
    remember. they have to use one that no other subscriber to Verizon has
    .
    I'd only have to use one that no other neighbor had and no one around
    could guess, or use software to find. Didn't know how many times I'd
    have to enter it, the printer, the cell phone, the next cell phone, a
    TV, Alexa maybe, and a couple other things I didn't forexee and don't rmeember. I should have made it shorter and easier.

    Here (UK), routers usually come with a slide-out bit of plastic, with a
    label on it showing the SSID and its password (and an identical label underneath the slide-out in case you lose it). They also mostly have a
    button to press that lets anything connect in the next few minutes (I'm
    not sure how long), provided the devices trying to connect know about
    the protocol involved (three letters, I forget what they are). [It
    remembers those devices after the time has expired, and lets them in.]

    I've changed my SSID to something I recognise, but I think I've left the password as it was.


    And thanks to you and Carlos.

    Welcome.

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep decide what is for dinner.
    (quoted by) Ipraylam, 2015-07-13

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 15:12:22 2025
    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    [...]
    I made a mistake not changing the password to something I could
    remember. they have to use one that no other subscriber to Verizon has.
    I'd only have to use one that no other neighbor had and no one around
    could guess, or use software to find. Didn't know how many times I'd
    have to enter it, the printer, the cell phone, the next cell phone, a
    TV, Alexa maybe, and a couple other things I didn't forexee and don't rmeember. I should have made it shorter and easier.

    You're mixing up passwords.

    There are two passwords: 1) The one to access the web UI of the
    modem/router and 2) the password for your WiFi network.

    1) probably should be unique, but must not be unique, because it's
    only accessed from your (hardwired or/and wireless) network.

    2) is unique as shipped from / installed by the ISP, but as soon as
    you change the SSID (your WiFi network name) it can be anything you
    like, provided it matches the rules defined by the router and is
    sufficiently secure.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 29 00:00:02 2025
    On 26/11/2025 9:55 pm, micky wrote:

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.

    Your neighbor's internet belongs not to you. Stop using it. :)

    Contact your cable service provider to fix the modem problem. Does it
    have LAN ports? Are they still working?

    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mark Lloyd@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 17:17:10 2025
    On Thu, 27 Nov 2025 20:16:12 +0000, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    [snip]

    I once came across a network called "show us your tits". (No, I did not
    try connecting to it! It was in Heaton, Newcastle, England.)

    I remember years ago, when I could find several networks called "Linksys"
    and with no security. It appeared that people just left it at the default. Sometimes the SSID got changed to "I'm so insecure" or "I want my WPA!".
    The owner may not have noticed (at that time, there weren't that many smartphones).

    --
    27 days until the winter celebration (Thursday, December 25, 2025 12:00
    AM for 1 day).

    Mark Lloyd
    http://notstupid.us/

    "Christ rode on an ass, but now asses ride on Christ." -- Heine

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Adrian Caspersz@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 17:56:28 2025
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?. I would think
    not but just want to be sure. He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik. If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?


    Hi Micky,

    YES, and if not him, then anyone else that is also using his network (authorised or not). And then, everytime he switches on his machines
    with unknown malware (who knows?), those same machines are looking at
    you, you being on the same network.

    Please fix this. If you have a large or difficult property, consider
    wiring access more points and sticking them on 5GHz. Your router
    password needs to be quite long, looks like complete randomness, you'll
    hardly ever type it. Change it from the one the manufacturer set as a
    matter of course.

    BTW There is no point any more in hiding SSIDs that used to be
    fashionable security advice. In fact if you do that then your portable
    device is forced to maintain a local list of recent contacted SSIDs and repeatedly calls out "Are You There?", which anyone can use for tracking
    you when you are out and about.

    --
    Adrian C

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 18:00:35 2025
    Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@removehotmail.com> wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    [...]
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm
    sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?. I would think
    not but just want to be sure. He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik. If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?
    [...]
    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a
    neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my >>> laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.

    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    Huh? Micky obviously got his neighbour's permission to use his/her
    WiFi, otherwise how would he know the password?

    Why "obviously"? It's not that unusual to see open wifi networks.

    A quite different issue is if the neighbour's ISP would condone such a setup/use.

    They don't care.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Marcus90@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 12:41:13 2025
    On Fri, 28 Nov 2025 08:47:26 +0000, wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm
    sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?. I would think
    not but just want to be sure. He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik. If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?


    I might have missed it, but did anyone in this overdone thread even
    begin to mention that what this user is doing is wrong? Or is this no
    longer pertinent in this day and age?

    Such a potential problem is why I do not use Wi-Fi for our home
    computers.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 14:03:52 2025
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm
    sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?.˙˙ I would think
    not but just want to be sure.˙˙˙ He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik.˙ If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    My wifi has been giving me trouble since February, and last night on the
    upstairs computer, the cable internet would not work either.˙ The
    Troubleshooter said the cable wasn't in, and indeed, I had sometimes
    gotten success by pushing it in further, a millimeter, but that didn't
    work last night.˙˙ Even though the Verizon FIOS fiberoptic phone was
    working and the Verizon box has a flashing led for the cable that goes
    to my computer.

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a
    neighbor, but not to my own wifi˙˙ Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi.˙ But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my
    laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.


    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit.
    Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.

    Paul



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 19:05:12 2025
    Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
    Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@removehotmail.com> wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    [...]
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm >>> sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the >>> web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?. I would think >>> not but just want to be sure. He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik. If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?
    [...]
    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a
    neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his, >>> it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my >>> laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.

    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    Huh? Micky obviously got his neighbour's permission to use his/her
    WiFi, otherwise how would he know the password?

    Why "obviously"? It's not that unusual to see open wifi networks.

    Yes, there used to be some open networks, but not so much these days.

    I just checked the networks I can see. There are 23 networks (we live
    in an appartment building). All but 2 are closed. One 'open' one is a
    nearby hotel, but that gives 'Can't connect to the network'. The other
    open one says 'Hidden network', so no visible SSID. I don't want to try
    to connect to that network.

    So yes, there possibly is an open network, but the large majority are
    closed.

    Anyway, I've told Micky how he can prevent an auto-connect or do a
    Forget.

    A quite different issue is if the neighbour's ISP would condone such a setup/use.

    They don't care.

    Well, there was a time when some/mine did. I don't know if that's
    still the case.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 21:13:50 2025
    On 2025-11-28 09:16, Chris wrote:
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-11-27 18:13, Chris wrote:
    You're including your neighbour in your computer network.

    Rather you are including your computer into your neighbour network.

    Fair. The risk is similar however.

    Yes, but it is only your computer that is involved, not all your
    machines. And all of your neighbour machines could be affected.

    Depends who is the bad guy. Maybe no one is a bad guy. Oh, unless some
    machine involved has some type of malware.

    That's one reason why all my computers have a firewall.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Hank Rogers@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 16:47:53 2025
    Marian wrote on 11/28/2025 1:18 PM:
    On Fri, 28 Nov 2025 12:41:13 -0600, Marcus90@guess.com wrote:

    I might have missed it, but did anyone in this overdone thread even
    begin to mention that what this user is doing is wrong? Or is this no
    longer pertinent in this day and age?

    I don't think he needs a morality re-education.

    Everyone who knows nothing about the technical issues always seems to harp
    on their personal "moral" aspect, where some people mentioned what you say, but as others have already noted, there's no reason to suspect illegal purposeful intent so I, for one, kept all my responses purely technical.

    However, since I'm on Apple newsgroups, I'm very familiar with people claiming the moral high ground solely as a substitute for knowledge about
    the situation. An example is iOS owners always claim that the reason they can't do things everyone else can do (even macOS owners can do them) is
    that Apple is "more moral" than Google or Microsoft (e.g., iOS can't do
    TOR, and iOS can't spoof GPS, and iOS can't randomize MAC addresses per connection, and iOS can't run system-wide firewalls, and iOS can't torrent, and the list goes on and on and on for whatg iOS can't do that the iOS
    owners falsely claim is a "moral" issue).

    Back to morals...

    In this thread, plenty of people explained to the OP how to "forget" and "block" connections to nearby unsecured SSIDs, which is all he needs.

    netsh wlan add filter permission=block ssid="Neighbor_SSID" networktype=infrastructure


    Indeed! But I think it's time for a detailed, comprehensive, adult
    tutorial.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 29 00:07:11 2025
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-11-28 09:16, Chris wrote:
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-11-27 18:13, Chris wrote:
    You're including your neighbour in your computer network.

    Rather you are including your computer into your neighbour network.

    Fair. The risk is similar however.

    Yes, but it is only your computer that is involved, not all your
    machines.

    If the computer is on the LAN - micky mentioned an ethernet connection -
    then everything is exposed.

    And all of your neighbour machines could be affected.

    Depends who is the bad guy. Maybe no one is a bad guy. Oh, unless some machine involved has some type of malware.

    Most likely there is no bad guy.

    That's one reason why all my computers have a firewall.





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 29 02:00:14 2025
    On 2025/11/28 19:5:12, Frank Slootweg wrote:

    []

    Yes, there used to be some open networks, but not so much these days.

    I just checked the networks I can see. There are 23 networks (we live
    in an appartment building). All but 2 are closed. One 'open' one is a
    nearby hotel, but that gives 'Can't connect to the network'. The other
    open one says 'Hidden network', so no visible SSID. I don't want to try
    to connect to that network.

    So yes, there possibly is an open network, but the large majority are closed.

    There's a third wrinkle, in UK and other countries: networks that appear
    to be open, but only show you one page, which is a login one. (At least
    I think that's what they show - I haven't tried one for years.) These
    are where the router belongs to a customer of one of those providers who
    claim millions of hotspots, by making all their routers have an open connection, but further authentication is required further down the line
    for anyone who does connect to them. (I presume they limit such
    connections to some fraction of the available speed/capacity, so the
    "owner" isn't inconvenienced if someone uses them.) The first such
    network I heard of was FON, which I think originated in Spain.


    Anyway, I've told Micky how he can prevent an auto-connect or do a
    Forget.

    A quite different issue is if the neighbour's ISP would condone such a >>> setup/use.

    They don't care.

    Well, there was a time when some/mine did. I don't know if that's
    still the case.
    I think, in theory, they do care, and it's your responsibility to
    prevent unauthorised connections. In practice, I think the only time
    they'd make any fuss is if the piggyback user was downloading (or
    uploading - that's probably worse) naughty things (such as the two usual bogeymen).

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Know what happens when you don't pay your exorcist?
    You get repossessed!
    - Randle Brashear, 2015-8-9

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 29 02:04:21 2025
    On 2025/11/28 22:47:53, Hank Rogers wrote:

    []

    Indeed! But I think it's time for a detailed, comprehensive, adult tutorial.

    Aargh, don't prod you-know-who - we seem to have been excused his
    "tutorials" (usually starting with a question to which the "tutorial" is
    an answer) for a while.

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Know what happens when you don't pay your exorcist?
    You get repossessed!
    - Randle Brashear, 2015-8-9

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Fri Nov 28 21:36:54 2025
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 5:47 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
    Marian wrote on 11/28/2025 1:18 PM:
    On Fri, 28 Nov 2025 12:41:13 -0600, Marcus90@guess.com wrote:

    I might have missed it, but did anyone in this overdone thread even
    begin to mention that what this user is doing is wrong?? Or is this no
    longer pertinent in this day and age?

    I don't think he needs a morality re-education.

    Everyone who knows nothing about the technical issues always seems to harp >> on their personal "moral" aspect, where some people mentioned what you say, >> but as others have already noted, there's no reason to suspect illegal
    purposeful intent so I, for one, kept all my responses purely technical.

    However, since I'm on Apple newsgroups, I'm very familiar with people
    claiming the moral high ground solely as a substitute for knowledge about
    the situation. An example is iOS owners always claim that the reason they
    can't do things everyone else can do (even macOS owners can do them) is
    that Apple is "more moral" than Google or Microsoft (e.g., iOS can't do
    TOR, and iOS can't spoof GPS, and iOS can't randomize MAC addresses per
    connection, and iOS can't run system-wide firewalls, and iOS can't torrent, >> and the list goes on and on and on for whatg iOS can't do that the iOS
    owners falsely claim is a "moral" issue).

    Back to morals...

    In this thread, plenty of people explained to the OP how to "forget" and
    "block" connections to nearby unsecured SSIDs, which is all he needs.

    ? netsh wlan add filter permission=block ssid="Neighbor_SSID" networktype=infrastructure


    Indeed!? But I think it's time for a detailed, comprehensive, adult tutorial.


    That's one of the reasons I get this group, for the subtle humour.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 29 11:22:10 2025
    In alt.comp.os.windows-10 J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    On 2025/11/28 19:5:12, Frank Slootweg wrote:

    []

    Yes, there used to be some open networks, but not so much these days.

    I just checked the networks I can see. There are 23 networks (we live
    in an appartment building). All but 2 are closed. One 'open' one is a nearby hotel, but that gives 'Can't connect to the network'. The other
    open one says 'Hidden network', so no visible SSID. I don't want to try
    to connect to that network.

    So yes, there possibly is an open network, but the large majority are closed.

    There's a third wrinkle, in UK and other countries: networks that appear
    to be open, but only show you one page, which is a login one. (At least
    I think that's what they show - I haven't tried one for years.) These
    are where the router belongs to a customer of one of those providers who claim millions of hotspots, by making all their routers have an open connection, but further authentication is required further down the line
    for anyone who does connect to them. (I presume they limit such
    connections to some fraction of the available speed/capacity, so the
    "owner" isn't inconvenienced if someone uses them.) The first such
    network I heard of was FON, which I think originated in Spain.

    Yes, we (in The Netherlands) used to have such ISP WiFi hotspots,
    including my ISP. But these days most of them have gone, because there
    are many more 'normal' WiFi hotspots and 'everyone' has a smartphone.

    For the ISP WiFi hotspots, bandwidth taken from it's 'owner' was not a problem, because the modems provided a seperate hotspot with its own
    channel for the public hotspot function.

    I think for FON, the public hotspot did (does?) use some of the
    owner's bandwidth.

    [...]

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 29 11:32:25 2025
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 29/11/2025 6:05 am, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    [...]
    Yes, there used to be some open networks, but not so much these
    days.

    I just checked the networks I can see. There are 23 networks (we
    live in an appartment building). All but 2 are closed. One 'open' one
    is a nearby hotel, but that gives 'Can't connect to the network'.

    If you take a wander down to that Hotel, might you be able to find out
    what the "Password for Today" is.

    No, this one was different, because it didn't ask for a password, but
    failed to connect.

    I've seen that sort of thing in some Government offices, here in
    Australia, so the 'Customers' can make use of the Wi-Fi whilst waiting
    for their appointment.

    Yes, we've used that in Australia in caravan parks, motels/hotels,
    etc.. But in caravan parks the WiFi often was bad because of the
    distances involved, so we used my smartphone as a hotspot (and in the
    early days (from early 2009) my dumb/feature phone as a modem).

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 29 14:24:50 2025
    On 2025-11-29 01:07, Chris wrote:
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-11-28 09:16, Chris wrote:
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-11-27 18:13, Chris wrote:
    You're including your neighbour in your computer network.

    Rather you are including your computer into your neighbour network.

    Fair. The risk is similar however.

    Yes, but it is only your computer that is involved, not all your
    machines.

    If the computer is on the LAN - micky mentioned an ethernet connection -
    then everything is exposed.


    Your computer is not on the LAN. The network hardware has connected to
    your neighbour, not to your LAN.

    Unless you have two network interfaces, like one WiFi and one cable. But
    in that case *you* have to configure routing for incoming network on the
    WiFi to go into the cable, intentionally (and the reverse). Windows
    doesn't do this by default. OR, the bad guy at the other side of the
    WiFi has to hack into your computer first, which is different matter
    from reading the network packets.

    And all of your neighbour machines could be affected.

    Depends who is the bad guy. Maybe no one is a bad guy. Oh, unless some
    machine involved has some type of malware.

    Most likely there is no bad guy.

    Good :-)


    That's one reason why all my computers have a firewall.


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 29 14:29:18 2025
    On 2025-11-29 12:22, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    In alt.comp.os.windows-10 J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    On 2025/11/28 19:5:12, Frank Slootweg wrote:


    I think for FON, the public hotspot did (does?) use some of the
    owner's bandwidth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fon_Wireless


    [...]


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 29 14:36:20 2025
    On 2025-11-28 17:00, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 9:55 pm, micky wrote:

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a
    neighbor, but not to my own wifi˙˙ Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi.˙ But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my
    laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.

    Your neighbor's internet belongs not to you. Stop using it. :)

    It is that neighbour responsibility to close the door, ie, put a
    password on his WiFi.

    There are computers and phones that will connect automatically (by
    default) to any open WiFi without asking.


    Contact your cable service provider to fix the modem problem. Does it
    have LAN ports? Are they still working?



    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 29 14:11:55 2025
    On 2025/11/29 11:22:10, Frank Slootweg wrote:

    []

    Yes, we (in The Netherlands) used to have such ISP WiFi hotspots,
    including my ISP. But these days most of them have gone, because there
    are many more 'normal' WiFi hotspots and 'everyone' has a smartphone.

    (Not quite - I don't currently, for example!) Having a smartphone
    doesn't give your laptop access, though, unless you configure the 'phone
    as a hotspot, which (a) many users wouldn't know how to do, (b) maybe
    some smartphones can't be [I don't know], (c) the service provider may
    prohibit it, (d) the speed might not be as good as a home broadband one.
    (Might be better, of course.)>
    For the ISP WiFi hotspots, bandwidth taken from it's 'owner' was not
    a
    problem, because the modems provided a seperate hotspot with its own
    channel for the public hotspot function.

    Well, I presume the two - though entirely separate - shared the
    "bandwidth" available from a home broadband connection; I don't imagine
    the provider paid for a higher-speed connection. The maximum speed they promised their home customer might be a little lower?>
    I think for FON, the public hotspot did (does?) use some of the
    owner's bandwidth.

    [...]
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Being wrong isn't the problem. Staying wrong proudly is.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 29 15:34:59 2025
    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    On 2025/11/29 11:22:10, Frank Slootweg wrote:

    []

    Yes, we (in The Netherlands) used to have such ISP WiFi hotspots, including my ISP. But these days most of them have gone, because there
    are many more 'normal' WiFi hotspots and 'everyone' has a smartphone.

    (Not quite - I don't currently, for example!)

    I know, hence the scare quotes, i.e. not literally everyone.

    Having a smartphone
    doesn't give your laptop access, though, unless you configure the 'phone
    as a hotspot, which (a) many users wouldn't know how to do, (b) maybe
    some smartphones can't be [I don't know], (c) the service provider may prohibit it, (d) the speed might not be as good as a home broadband one. (Might be better, of course.)>

    I meant that these roaming users will just use their smartphones to do whatever they want to do, i.e. as they probably would be mostly outside
    and 'walking', they wouldn't be using a laptop, tablet, etc..

    For the ISP WiFi hotspots, bandwidth taken from it's 'owner' was not a problem, because the modems provided a seperate hotspot with its own channel for the public hotspot function.

    Well, I presume the two - though entirely separate - shared the
    "bandwidth" available from a home broadband connection; I don't imagine
    the provider paid for a higher-speed connection. The maximum speed they promised their home customer might be a little lower?>

    No, it was a totally seperate communication channel, at least for our
    (coax) cable modems, so the 'local' network could run at its maximum
    speed. But you might be right for *DSL modems, if they ever provided
    such a service ( I don't know).

    (Humorous bit: I type "I fon't know")

    I think for FON, the public hotspot did (does?) use some of the
    owner's bandwidth.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 30 12:52:29 2025
    On 29/11/2025 9:36 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-11-28 17:00, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 9:55 pm, micky wrote:

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a
    neighbor, but not to my own wifi˙˙ Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi.˙ But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my >>> laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.

    Your neighbor's internet belongs not to you. Stop using it. :)

    It is that neighbour responsibility to close the door, ie, put a
    password on his WiFi.

    There are computers and phones that will connect automatically (by
    default) to any open WiFi without asking.

    You do NOT take advantage of others' mistakes. :)

    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 30 13:48:46 2025
    On 2025/11/30 4:52:29, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 29/11/2025 9:36 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-11-28 17:00, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 9:55 pm, micky wrote:

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of
    a
    neighbor, but not to my own wifi˙˙ Hmmm after 30 minutes o
    f using his,
    it just switched to my wifi.˙ But still not to the cable, which
    I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter sai
    d my
    laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February
    .

    Your neighbor's internet belongs not to you. Stop using it. :)

    It is that neighbour responsibility to close the door, ie, put a
    password on his WiFi.

    There are computers and phones that will connect automatically (by
    default) to any open WiFi without asking.

    You do NOT take advantage of others' mistakes. :)

    Carlos was pointing out that some things will connect to any open wifi, _without the user knowing_. That is not "taking advantage" - or if it
    is, your opprobrium needs to be addressed to the makers of such
    equipment, not the users.


    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    I'd rather trust the guys in the lab coats who aren't demanding that I
    get up early on Sundays to apologize for being human.
    -- Captain Splendid (quoted by "The Real Bev" in mozilla.general,
    2014-11-16)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 30 22:28:06 2025
    On 30/11/2025 9:48 pm, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    Carlos was pointing out that some things will connect to any open wifi, _without the user knowing_. That is not "taking advantage" - or if it
    is, your opprobrium needs to be addressed to the makers of such
    equipment, not the users.


    Well, I don't use automatic wifi connect. I always look for my own
    router's SSID. :)

    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 30 20:36:37 2025
    On 2025-11-30 15:28, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 30/11/2025 9:48 pm, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

    Carlos was pointing out that some things will connect to any open wifi,
    _without the user knowing_. That is not "taking advantage" - or if it
    is, your opprobrium needs to be addressed to the makers of such
    equipment, not the users.


    Well, I don't use automatic wifi connect. I always look for my own
    router's SSID. :)



    I use automatic wifi connect, to known wifis. I have disabled connect to
    open wifis.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From wasbit@3:633/10 to All on Mon Dec 1 09:21:27 2025
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm
    sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?.˙˙ I would think
    not but just want to be sure.˙˙˙ He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik.˙ If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    My wifi has been giving me trouble since February, and last night on the >>> upstairs computer, the cable internet would not work either.˙ The
    Troubleshooter said the cable wasn't in, and indeed, I had sometimes
    gotten success by pushing it in further, a millimeter, but that didn't
    work last night.˙˙ Even though the Verizon FIOS fiberoptic phone was
    working and the Verizon box has a flashing led for the cable that goes
    to my computer.

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a
    neighbor, but not to my own wifi˙˙ Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi.˙ But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my >>> laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.


    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit.
    Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.


    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing
    about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.



    --
    Regards
    wasbit

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Mon Dec 1 13:47:52 2025
    wasbit <wasbit@removehotmail.com> wrote:
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    [...]
    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit. Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.

    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing
    about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    micky's *computer* *accidentily* connected to his neighbour's WiFi:

    <micky>
    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a
    neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.
    </micky>

    So *instead of* connecting to his "cable" (wired LAN?) or WiFi, his *computer* (*not* micky) connected to his neighbour's WiFi.

    Could he have disconnected the neighbour's WiFi in those 30 minutes?
    Yes. Did he know how to do that? I don't know.

    As to "bandwidth theft": I'm sure his accidental use, doesn't deserve
    your harsh condemnation.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Mon Dec 1 15:04:03 2025
    On 2025-12-01 14:47, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@removehotmail.com> wrote:
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    [...]
    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit.
    Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.

    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing
    about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    micky's *computer* *accidentily* connected to his neighbour's WiFi:

    <micky>
    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February. </micky>

    So *instead of* connecting to his "cable" (wired LAN?) or WiFi, his *computer* (*not* micky) connected to his neighbour's WiFi.

    Could he have disconnected the neighbour's WiFi in those 30 minutes?
    Yes. Did he know how to do that? I don't know.

    As to "bandwidth theft": I'm sure his accidental use, doesn't deserve
    your harsh condemnation.

    In my view, using an open WiFi is permitted.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Marian@3:633/10 to All on Mon Dec 1 07:18:41 2025
    Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit.
    Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.

    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing
    about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    micky's *computer* *accidentily* connected to his neighbour's WiFi:

    <micky>
    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February. </micky>

    So *instead of* connecting to his "cable" (wired LAN?) or WiFi, his *computer* (*not* micky) connected to his neighbour's WiFi.

    Could he have disconnected the neighbour's WiFi in those 30 minutes?
    Yes. Did he know how to do that? I don't know.

    As to "bandwidth theft": I'm sure his accidental use, doesn't deserve
    your harsh condemnation.

    I'm surprised nobody but me mentioned the solution to the OP's problem set.

    Only the router owner can disable SSID broadcast to make it invisible to all devices.
    However, what the OP can do is put an "X" on the SSID icon by blocking connections.

    You can't hide your neighbors' AP SSID from showing up, but you can block
    the chance of accidental connection by running the "block" netsh command.
    netsh wlan add filter permission=block ssid="NeighborSSID" networktype=infrastructure

    I'm surprised I'm the only one on this newsgroup who seems to be aware of
    this feature since it's the best solution possible to the OP's problem set.
    @echo off
    netsh wlan show filters
    echo Blocking unwanted Wi-Fi networks...
    REM Replace these with the SSIDs you want to hide
    netsh wlan add filter permission=block ssid="NeighborSSID1" networktype=infrastructure
    netsh wlan add filter permission=block ssid="NeighborSSID2" networktype=infrastructure
    netsh wlan add filter permission=block ssid="NeighborSSID3" networktype=infrastructure
    echo Done! The specified SSIDs are now blocked.
    netsh wlan show filters
    pause

    I wish there was a way to hide from view your neighbors' AP's altogether.

    What I do, for privacy (not for security), is I hide the broadcast of my home SSIDs.
    That way, they're not uploaded to public servers by every mobile device passing by.

    In addition, by hiding my SSID broadcast, my neighbors won't passively see them.

    REFERENCES: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/1329103/block-and-hide-wifi-network
    https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/3562-add-remove-wireless-network-filter-windows-10-a.html
    https://www.techbout.com/hide-block-wifi-networks-in-windows-10-38797/ https://www.howtogeek.com/331816/how-to-block-your-neighbors-wi-fi-network-from-appearing-on-windows/
    https://www.thewindowsclub.com/allow-or-block-wifi-network-in-windows
    --
    The solution to every problem is easy when you're intelligent enough to seek the answer.



























    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Marian@3:633/10 to All on Mon Dec 1 07:50:16 2025
    Carlos E.R. wrote:
    As to "bandwidth theft": I'm sure his accidental use, doesn't deserve
    your harsh condemnation.

    In my view, using an open WiFi is permitted.

    I agree with both Carlos & Frank since I agree with anyone, no matter who
    they are, if they post a reasonably sensibly logically stated view.

    However... I just looked up US case law on this topic for the first time,
    and while case law may well differ in Frank's & Carlos' location across the pond, I'm assuming the OP is in the United States whose law I looked up.

    Below is a copied-and-pasted response from the references...

    In the United States, using a neighbor's open Wi-Fi without permission is generally considered unauthorized access under federal and state law. Even
    if the network is unsecured, courts have treated this as potentially
    illegal. Case law and statutes (like the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act)
    support that "piggybacking" on someone else's Wi-Fi can be prosecuted,
    though enforcement is rare unless other crimes are involved.

    Federal Law - Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA): The CFAA (18 U.S.C. Sec. 1030) makes it a crime to intentionally access a "protected computer"
    without authorization. Courts have interpreted Wi-Fi routers and networks
    as "protected computers." Thus, connecting to a neighbor's Wi-Fi without consent can fall under this statute.

    Many states have their own computer crime statutes that prohibit
    unauthorized access to networks. For example, Florida and Michigan have prosecuted individuals for unauthorized Wi-Fi use under state computer
    crime laws.

    Michigan (2007 - Compuware Building case): A man was arrested for
    repeatedly using an open cafe Wi-Fi from his car. He was charged under Michigan's "Fraudulent Access to Computers, Computer Systems, and Computer Networks" law. The network had no password or permission screen, but prosecutors argued that "authorization" still requires the owner's consent.

    Florida (2005 - Lakeland case): A man was fined for accessing a private
    home's open Wi-Fi without permission. He was prosecuted under Florida's computer crime statute. Again, the network was unsecured - no password or login screen - but the court treated it as unauthorized use.

    Illinois (2006 - Aurora case): A man was charged with "unauthorized use of
    a computer network" for connecting to a resident's open Wi-Fi. The SSID was broadcast and unprotected, but the court found that lack of technical
    barriers did not equal consent.

    In California, using a neighbor's open Wi-Fi without permission is illegal under California Penal Code Sec. 502 (Unauthorized Computer Access and
    Fraud). Even if the network is unsecured and has no permission screen,
    courts treat this as "unauthorized access." Convictions can carry fines and
    up to three years in prison.

    California Penal Code Sec. 502 PC: Makes it a crime to "knowingly access
    and without permission use, alter, or damage any computer, computer system,
    or computer network." This statute explicitly covers Wi-Fi networks. Courts
    in California have clarified that the absence of a password or permission screen does not imply authorization. Unauthorized use of an open Wi-Fi is still considered "stealing" internet service.

    People v. Hawkins (California, 2009): A man was charged under Penal Code
    Sec. 502 for accessing a neighbor's open Wi-Fi without permission. The
    court held that "open" does not equal "public," and unauthorized use still counts as unlawful access.

    San Jose Police Reports (2005-2007): Several arrests were made for
    individuals "piggybacking" on open residential Wi-Fi. These were prosecuted under Sec. 502 PC, even though the networks had no passwords or permission screens.

    If you own the router, then the best way to prevent this (and gain some privacy from mobile device uploads to public databases at the same time) is simply to hide AP broadcasts.

    If you're the next-door neighbor, the best way on Windows to prevent connections to the neighbors' open access points is to "block them.

    @echo off
    netsh wlan show filters
    echo Blocking unwanted Wi-Fi networks...
    REM Replace these with the SSIDs you want to hide
    netsh wlan add filter permission=block ssid="NeighborSSID1" networktype=infrastructure
    netsh wlan add filter permission=block ssid="NeighborSSID2" networktype=infrastructure
    netsh wlan add filter permission=block ssid="NeighborSSID3" networktype=infrastructure
    echo Done! The specified SSIDs are now blocked.
    netsh wlan show filters
    pause


    REFERENCES:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_piggybacking https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/stealing-wi-fi-your-neighbor-a-victimless-crime.html
    https://www.findlaw.com/realestate/neighbors/neighbor-stealing-your-wi-fi-here-are-your-legal-options.html
    https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/502/ https://www.egattorneys.com/stealing-wifi https://legalclarity.org/is-stealing-wi-fi-a-crime-the-laws-and-penalties/ https://hamiltonpawprint.com/is-it-illegal-to-use-someones-wi-fi-without-permission-the-legal-consequences-in-san-jose-ca/
    --
    Most people are intuitive so they make guesses without checking them;
    but when they check their intuitive assumptions, they are often wrong.





















    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Mon Dec 1 15:03:19 2025
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-12-01 14:47, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@removehotmail.com> wrote:
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    [...]
    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit. >>> Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.

    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing
    about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    micky's *computer* *accidentily* connected to his neighbour's WiFi:

    <micky>
    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February. </micky>

    So *instead of* connecting to his "cable" (wired LAN?) or WiFi, his *computer* (*not* micky) connected to his neighbour's WiFi.

    Could he have disconnected the neighbour's WiFi in those 30 minutes? Yes. Did he know how to do that? I don't know.

    As to "bandwidth theft": I'm sure his accidental use, doesn't deserve your harsh condemnation.

    In my view, using an open WiFi is permitted.

    But there is no information on whether or not micky's neighbour's WiFi
    *is* open. Neither is there information on whether or not micky has
    permission to use his neighbour's WiFi. But both do apperently not
    prevent some (not you) to accuse him of wrongdoing. Sigh! :-(

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From micky@3:633/10 to All on Mon Dec 1 11:27:25 2025
    In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on 28 Nov 2025 15:12:22 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
    [...]
    I made a mistake not changing the password to something I could
    remember. they have to use one that no other subscriber to Verizon has.
    I'd only have to use one that no other neighbor had and no one around
    could guess, or use software to find. Didn't know how many times I'd
    have to enter it, the printer, the cell phone, the next cell phone, a
    TV, Alexa maybe, and a couple other things I didn't forexee and don't
    rmeember. I should have made it shorter and easier.

    You're mixing up passwords.

    Darn. I'm n ot too surprised.

    There are two passwords: 1) The one to access the web UI of the
    modem/router and 2) the password for your WiFi network.

    WRT 1, when I first got a router, I spent time looking at the settings,
    and even had a bookmark to get into them. I tried to copy everything
    over to the new computer, but I think that was in the browser. I'm
    useing the old computer now. I should look for that stuff.


    1) probably should be unique, but must not be unique, because it's
    only accessed from your (hardwired or/and wireless) network.

    2) is unique as shipped from / installed by the ISP, but as soon as
    you change the SSID (your WiFi network name) it can be anything you
    like, provided it matches the rules defined by the router and is
    sufficiently secure.

    It's this one I should have made shorter, but it's too late now because
    I'd have to change it in several devices. And even though it's 16 or so characters long, I've almost memorized it.

    Thanks, and if I don't have time to anwer the others, thanks to you guys
    too.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris@3:633/10 to All on Mon Dec 1 18:04:25 2025
    wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm >>>> sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the >>>> web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?.˙˙ I would think >>>> not but just want to be sure.˙˙˙ He's a smart guy but no tech genius
    afaik.˙ If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    My wifi has been giving me trouble since February, and last night on the >>>> upstairs computer, the cable internet would not work either.˙ The
    Troubleshooter said the cable wasn't in, and indeed, I had sometimes
    gotten success by pushing it in further, a millimeter, but that didn't >>>> work last night.˙˙ Even though the Verizon FIOS fiberoptic phone was
    working and the Verizon box has a flashing led for the cable that goes >>>> to my computer.

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a
    neighbor, but not to my own wifi˙˙ Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his, >>>> it just switched to my wifi.˙ But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my >>>> laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February.


    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit.
    Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.


    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing
    about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    Theft requires that someone is deprived of something. Given every broadband connection is unlimited there is no "deprivation".

    Using something without paying for it is potentially fraud, however.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Marian@3:633/10 to All on Mon Dec 1 11:45:17 2025
    Carlos E.R. wrote:
    Carlos was pointing out that some things will connect to any open wifi,
    _without the user knowing_. That is not "taking advantage" - or if it
    is, your opprobrium needs to be addressed to the makers of such
    equipment, not the users.


    Well, I don't use automatic wifi connect. I always look for my own
    router's SSID. :)



    I use automatic wifi connect, to known wifis. I have disabled connect to open wifis.

    To add further technical value to this sub topic...

    For those wishing to know more about this topic, most people have their
    router Wi-Fi AP set to broadcast the SSID, which means it's uploaded to world-wide publicly accessible databases whether they like it or not.
    a. The (unique) GPS location (of the phone uploading it) is uploaded
    b. The signal strength (of the signal to the phone) is uploaded
    c. The (unique) BSSID (MAC address) is uploaded - which is essentially you
    d. The (normally non-unique) SSID is uploaded (with or without _nomap)

    Every mobile device owned by ignorant/rude people is uploading that privacy
    to the world-wide publicly accessible databases (which have been abused).

    That means my mobile devices don't ever upload your privacy.
    But your mobile device almost certainly tries to upload mine.

    What I do to prevent the upload is I set my SSID to not broadcast.
    a. This prevents a passive upload by rude/ignorant people.
    I also opt out by adding _optout_ & _nomap to the SSID.
    b. This (supposedly) removes my privacy information from the servers
    In addition, I set the mobile device to not connect automatically.
    c. This stops the mobile device from shouting out "are you there?"

    In addition, due to the ubiquitous existence of WPA2 SSID-salted rainbow
    hash tables (& reusable butterfly WPA2-handshake hashcat tables), I use a (hopefully) unique SSID (since it's the WPA2 encryption salt) in addition
    to a (hopefully) non-dictionary passphrase (both of which are required to
    stay out of those pre-computed and re-used cryptographic hash tables).
    1. Rainbow tables: Precomputed WPA2 hash databases based on SSID
    2. Butterfly hash tables: Optimization structures used in WPA2 cracking

    Furthermore, iOS mobile devices can be set to randomize the MAC per SSID,
    while Android mobile devices can be set to randomize the MAC per instance.

    If you own a new'ish router, you can upgrade to WPA3, which replaces WPA2's vulnerable handshake with SAE (so it's resistant to dictionary attacks).

    Of course, you should always disable Wi-Fi Protected Setup (WPS). Duh.
    And, keep your firmware updated (duh), & isolate the guest network (duh). Disable remote adminstration to your router (duh) & use HTTPS for login.

    You "can" restrict connections by MAC, but if you're randomizing the MAC address, it's going to be impossible (as is static IP addresses set at the router level - they now have to be set at the mobile device level instead).

    Also enable and check the router log (duh) for intrusions, but if you've
    ever done that, you'll know already you're being attacked constantly.

    Disable UPnP (duh), and firewall inbound traffic (duh) and enable DNS encryption (DoH/DoT), which seems easy, but I've found it to be a PITA.
    A. DoH (DNS over HTTPS) wraps DNS queries inside HTTPS traffic
    B. DoT (DNS over TLS) sends DNS queries over a TLS-encrypted channel

    You enable iOS 14 & up DoH using Settings > Wi-Fi > DNS & you enable
    Android 9+ DoT with Settings > Network & Internet > Advanced > Private DNS.

    You enable DoH on Windows in Settings > Network & Internet > Change adapter options > DNS settings where Windows 11 is still DoH but the GUI is better.

    On Android devices, you can add a system-wide firewall such as NetGuard.
    It can block Wi-Fi/CellularData access per app. Not available on iOS.

    I don't have much experience with RethinkDNS, but it's a FOSS Android app
    that combines encrypted DNS (DoH/DoT/DNSCrypt) with a system-wide firewall.
    i. RethinkDNS = firewall + encrypted DNS (DoH/DoT/DNSCrypt) + blocklists
    ii. NetGuard = firewall + per-app blocking + ad/tracker blocklists

    You'll never have any privacy/security on iOS, which sucks at both (and
    anyone thinking it doesn't suck, clearly doesn't know anything about iOS).

    While we're at it, it's probably a good idea to put smart TVs, cameras, and
    IoT gadgets on a separate VLAN or guest SSID, and it goes without saying further that you should change the rude/ignorant default iOS/Android setup.

    What did I miss?
    --
    I invest energy in responding to Usenet posts because I care about people getting full & complete information so we move tribal knowledge forward.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From wasbit@3:633/10 to All on Tue Dec 2 09:20:19 2025
    On 01/12/2025 18:04, Chris wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm >>>>> sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the >>>>> web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?.˙˙ I would think >>>>> not but just want to be sure.˙˙˙ He's a smart guy but no tech genius >>>>> afaik.˙ If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    My wifi has been giving me trouble since February, and last night on the >>>>> upstairs computer, the cable internet would not work either.˙ The
    Troubleshooter said the cable wasn't in, and indeed, I had sometimes >>>>> gotten success by pushing it in further, a millimeter, but that didn't >>>>> work last night.˙˙ Even though the Verizon FIOS fiberoptic phone was >>>>> working and the Verizon box has a flashing led for the cable that goes >>>>> to my computer.

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a >>>>> neighbor, but not to my own wifi˙˙ Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his, >>>>> it just switched to my wifi.˙ But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my >>>>> laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February. >>>>>

    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit.
    Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.


    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing
    about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    Theft requires that someone is deprived of something. Given every broadband connection is unlimited there is no "deprivation".

    Using something without paying for it is potentially fraud, however.


    Every broadband connection is NOT unlimited.
    Mine is currently 200GB per calendar month, which was 60GB then 100GB.


    --
    Regards
    wasbit

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From wasbit@3:633/10 to All on Tue Dec 2 09:33:22 2025
    On 01/12/2025 13:47, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@removehotmail.com> wrote:
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    [...]
    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit.
    Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.

    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing
    about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    micky's *computer* *accidentily* connected to his neighbour's WiFi:


    Whether it was accidental or not he connected to his neighbour's wifi.
    Once he realised, without permission it was theft.

    In the UK it is an offence under the Communications Act 2003 & possibly
    the Computer Misuse Act.

    It is up to the OP to clarify.


    <micky>
    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February. </micky>

    So *instead of* connecting to his "cable" (wired LAN?) or WiFi, his *computer* (*not* micky) connected to his neighbour's WiFi.

    Could he have disconnected the neighbour's WiFi in those 30 minutes?
    Yes. Did he know how to do that? I don't know.

    As to "bandwidth theft": I'm sure his accidental use, doesn't deserve
    your harsh condemnation.




    --
    Regards
    wasbit

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Tue Dec 2 13:53:08 2025
    On 2025-12-01 15:50, Marian wrote:
    Carlos E.R. wrote:
    As to "bandwidth theft": I'm sure his accidental use, doesn't deserve >>> your harsh condemnation.

    In my view, using an open WiFi is permitted.

    I agree with both Carlos & Frank since I agree with anyone, no matter who they are, if they post a reasonably sensibly logically stated view.

    However... I just looked up US case law on this topic for the first time,
    and while case law may well differ in Frank's & Carlos' location across the pond, I'm assuming the OP is in the United States whose law I looked up.

    Below is a copied-and-pasted response from the references...

    In the United States, using a neighbor's open Wi-Fi without permission is generally considered unauthorized access under federal and state law. Even
    if the network is unsecured, courts have treated this as potentially
    illegal. Case law and statutes (like the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act) support that "piggybacking" on someone else's Wi-Fi can be prosecuted,
    though enforcement is rare unless other crimes are involved.

    Federal Law - Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA): The CFAA (18 U.S.C. Sec. 1030) makes it a crime to intentionally access a "protected computer"
    without authorization. Courts have interpreted Wi-Fi routers and networks
    as "protected computers." Thus, connecting to a neighbor's Wi-Fi without consent can fall under this statute.

    Many states have their own computer crime statutes that prohibit
    unauthorized access to networks. For example, Florida and Michigan have prosecuted individuals for unauthorized Wi-Fi use under state computer
    crime laws.

    But how do you know it is not authorized?

    By default, a phone will connect to an open WiFi without asking. At
    least, it was so several years ago, I don't know currently because the configuration is cloned from one phone to the next.

    And Windows I think does the same, which is, I understand, what happened
    to the OP.

    I take that "looking" inside the network is not legal. But using a WiFi
    that is open? I know some people that intentionally left their WiFi open
    to any one that wanted. That was the view.

    But then, USA people are quite paranoid about private property, and can
    shoot an intruder without asking.


    (several examples trimmed)


    Here, some people were taken to court for "illegally downloading
    movies". In their defence, they said that it was not them, but somebody
    else using their WiFi, and the reverse could not be proven. They kept
    their WiFi open. They won. :-D

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Tue Dec 2 13:30:18 2025
    On 2025/12/2 11:21:33, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 2/12/2025 8:33 pm, wasbit wrote:

    []

    Whether it was accidental or not he connected to his neighbour's wifi.
    Once he realised,

    ... *and knowingly continued* ...

    without permission it was theft.

    In the UK it is an offence under the Communications Act 2003 & possibly
    the Computer Misuse Act.

    []

    I'm not even sure he had to realise, let alone knowingly continue, for
    it to be an offence _in theory_; _in practice_, I very much doubt if
    action would be taken unless either he used it so much that it impacted
    his neighbour's service, or he used it to download or upload something
    dodgy (such as the usual two bogeymen), or possibly to download
    something for which payment would otherwise be required. Or perhaps if
    he poked around his neighbour's computer/network, rather than just
    (ab)using the internet connection.

    Unless, of course, the authorities were after him for some other reason,
    in which case they could use the "offence" as an "in". But that applies
    to all sorts of "offences" - I've always assumed they'd use, for
    example, copyright infringement as such an "in" in almost any case (how
    many of us have _no_ copied material, be it audio, video, or even just documents).
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "Who came first? Adam or Eve?" "Adam of course; men always do."
    Victoria Wood (via Peter Hesketh)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris@3:633/10 to All on Tue Dec 2 14:11:49 2025
    wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
    On 01/12/2025 18:04, Chris wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm >>>>>> sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the >>>>>> web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?.˙˙ I would think >>>>>> not but just want to be sure.˙˙˙ He's a smart guy but no tech genius >>>>>> afaik.˙ If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    My wifi has been giving me trouble since February, and last night on the >>>>>> upstairs computer, the cable internet would not work either.˙ The
    Troubleshooter said the cable wasn't in, and indeed, I had sometimes >>>>>> gotten success by pushing it in further, a millimeter, but that didn't >>>>>> work last night.˙˙ Even though the Verizon FIOS fiberoptic phone was >>>>>> working and the Verizon box has a flashing led for the cable that goes >>>>>> to my computer.

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a >>>>>> neighbor, but not to my own wifi˙˙ Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his, >>>>>> it just switched to my wifi.˙ But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my >>>>>> laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February. >>>>>>

    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit. >>>> Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.


    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing
    about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    Theft requires that someone is deprived of something. Given every broadband >> connection is unlimited there is no "deprivation".

    Using something without paying for it is potentially fraud, however.


    Every broadband connection is NOT unlimited.
    Mine is currently 200GB per calendar month, which was 60GB then 100GB.

    You're the exception rather than the rule.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris@3:633/10 to All on Tue Dec 2 14:11:51 2025
    wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
    On 01/12/2025 13:47, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@removehotmail.com> wrote:
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    [...]
    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit. >>>> Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.

    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing
    about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    micky's *computer* *accidentily* connected to his neighbour's WiFi:


    Whether it was accidental or not he connected to his neighbour's wifi.
    Once he realised, without permission it was theft.

    It may be an offence. It is not theft.

    In the UK it is an offence under the Communications Act 2003 & possibly
    the Computer Misuse Act.

    It is up to the OP to clarify.

    Even so it'll be so far down the list of priorities that the police will be unlikely to even log it.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Tue Dec 2 15:26:59 2025
    On 2025-12-02 15:11, Chris wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
    On 01/12/2025 18:04, Chris wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm >>>>>>> sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the >>>>>>> web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?.˙˙ I would think >>>>>>> not but just want to be sure.˙˙˙ He's a smart guy but no tech genius >>>>>>> afaik.˙ If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    My wifi has been giving me trouble since February, and last night on the
    upstairs computer, the cable internet would not work either.˙ The >>>>>>> Troubleshooter said the cable wasn't in, and indeed, I had sometimes >>>>>>> gotten success by pushing it in further, a millimeter, but that didn't >>>>>>> work last night.˙˙ Even though the Verizon FIOS fiberoptic phone was >>>>>>> working and the Verizon box has a flashing led for the cable that goes >>>>>>> to my computer.

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a >>>>>>> neighbor, but not to my own wifi˙˙ Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his, >>>>>>> it just switched to my wifi.˙ But still not to the cable, which I >>>>>>> thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my
    laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February. >>>>>>>

    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit. >>>>> Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.


    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing >>>> about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    Theft requires that someone is deprived of something. Given every broadband >>> connection is unlimited there is no "deprivation".

    Using something without paying for it is potentially fraud, however.


    Every broadband connection is NOT unlimited.
    Mine is currently 200GB per calendar month, which was 60GB then 100GB.

    You're the exception rather than the rule.

    Depends. Spain has a very deep fibre coverage, but there are rural areas without. If you have to depend on a router with a SIM card, many
    providers limit the downloads per month. Even if you contract a
    limitless connection, in actual practice they have limits, and may
    severe your connection if you download movies every day.

    I had a beach residence with such a connection. Land line copper
    connection had been available, till the entire copper network was decommissioned, and they did not deploy fibre to every place that had
    copper previously. Just 200 meters away.


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Tue Dec 2 15:25:44 2025
    wasbit <wasbit@removehotmail.com> wrote:
    On 01/12/2025 13:47, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@removehotmail.com> wrote:
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    [...]
    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit. >>> Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.

    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing
    about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    micky's *computer* *accidentily* connected to his neighbour's WiFi:

    Whether it was accidental or not he connected to his neighbour's wifi.
    Once he realised, without permission it was theft.

    You keep harping on that, but, as I said, we and hence you don't *know*
    if it was without permission (and we don't know if it was open or not).

    In the UK it is an offence under the Communications Act 2003 & possibly
    the Computer Misuse Act.

    It is up to the OP to clarify.

    Nope it isn't. You apparently do, but probably most of this audience
    doesn't do "Guilty until proven innocent!".

    <micky>
    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a neighbor, but not to my own wifi Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi. But still not to the cable, which I
    thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February. </micky>

    So *instead of* connecting to his "cable" (wired LAN?) or WiFi, his *computer* (*not* micky) connected to his neighbour's WiFi.

    Could he have disconnected the neighbour's WiFi in those 30 minutes? Yes. Did he know how to do that? I don't know.

    As to "bandwidth theft": I'm sure his accidental use, doesn't deserve your harsh condemnation.

    Non response duly noted.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Winston@3:633/10 to All on Tue Dec 2 12:04:35 2025
    In regard to the original subject ("Can my neiighbor, whose wifi I'm
    using, see what I'm doing?"), I can't speak to what your particular
    neighbor could or is doing, but from a theoretical standpoint, the
    answer is Yes: some routers have the ability to do selective packet
    tracing, allowing forwarding to somewhere else a copy of all packets
    to and/or from a particular host, and they can then be recorded.

    The packet headers (containing the IP addresses of the hosts you
    connect to) will certainly be readable.

    If the data portion is encrypted, then, to first order, it won't be
    readable (which is why https, TLS, and other encryption is generally encouraged).

    If you're using a VPN, and if your DNS queries use the VPN, so that the
    only connections your host makes are to the VPN, the IP addresses in the
    packet headers will only be that of the VPN, not the hosts you're
    ultimately connecting to, making those IP addresses less informative.

    On to the next topic ...

    As a small part of an otherwise interesting article,
    Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> wrote:
    In the United States, using a neighbor's open Wi-Fi without permission is generally considered unauthorized access under federal and state law. Even if the network is unsecured, courts have treated this as potentially illegal. Case law and statutes (like the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act) support that "piggybacking" on someone else's Wi-Fi can be prosecuted, though enforcement is rare unless other crimes are involved.

    [and much more]

    It'll be interesting to see if/how that means Amazon Sidewalk design
    and devices constitute widespread unauthorized access.

    Sidewalk devices use Ring doorbell and Amazon Echo devices as routers
    and are allowed to use up to 500MB worth of data from each such router.
    The owners of these devices are not allowed to see who their devices
    connect to (either direction). Furthermore, Sidewalk device connections
    are enabled and allowed by default ("opt out", not "opt in"), so this
    will, in many cases, happen without the Ring/Echo owner's knowledge, understanding, or explicit consent.

    -WBE

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Tue Dec 2 23:19:52 2025
    On 2025-12-02 18:56, Marian wrote:
    Winston wrote:
    It'll be interesting to see if/how that means Amazon Sidewalk design
    and devices constitute widespread unauthorized access.

    Sidewalk devices use Ring doorbell and Amazon Echo devices as routers
    and are allowed to use up to 500MB worth of data from each such router.
    The owners of these devices are not allowed to see who their devices
    connect to (either direction). Furthermore, Sidewalk device connections
    are enabled and allowed by default ("opt out", not "opt in"), so this
    will, in many cases, happen without the Ring/Echo owner's knowledge,
    understanding, or explicit consent.

    Hi Winston,
    I was unaware of this. I'm on Amazon Vine so I get all sorts of cameras for free but I noticed all of the cameras on Vine went to the Internet instead
    of ONLY to your router or only to the sd card on the camera itself.

    Well, it is the only way to do it (commercially), meaning watching the
    camera while not at home.

    You could use safe cameras that do not connect to internet on their own,
    but instead need a local server inside the same LAN. And to connect from outside you would have to create a setup that includes either an
    external server, or a dyndns address pointing to your home.

    Possibly these cameras are more expensive. They do exist, it is what any entity in Europe would have to create for security cameras within the
    privacy laws. I don't know how to find them on Amazon, what search text.
    Maybe USB cameras.

    And by the way, it would be possibly to do this commercially if IPv6 is deployed, without using their external server.


    Only to the SD card might be possible if you do not hire their external storage and disable mobile phone use. But many cameras do their initial configuration via an Android App. If there is registration, bad.

    ...

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris@3:633/10 to All on Tue Dec 2 22:23:52 2025
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-12-02 15:11, Chris wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
    On 01/12/2025 18:04, Chris wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm >>>>>>>> sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the >>>>>>>> web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?.˙˙ I would think >>>>>>>> not but just want to be sure.˙˙˙ He's a smart guy but no tech genius >>>>>>>> afaik.˙ If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    My wifi has been giving me trouble since February, and last night on the
    upstairs computer, the cable internet would not work either.˙ The >>>>>>>> Troubleshooter said the cable wasn't in, and indeed, I had sometimes >>>>>>>> gotten success by pushing it in further, a millimeter, but that didn't >>>>>>>> work last night.˙˙ Even though the Verizon FIOS fiberoptic phone was >>>>>>>> working and the Verizon box has a flashing led for the cable that goes >>>>>>>> to my computer.

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a >>>>>>>> neighbor, but not to my own wifi˙˙ Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his, >>>>>>>> it just switched to my wifi.˙ But still not to the cable, which I >>>>>>>> thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my
    laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February. >>>>>>>>

    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit. >>>>>> Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.


    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing >>>>> about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    Theft requires that someone is deprived of something. Given every broadband
    connection is unlimited there is no "deprivation".

    Using something without paying for it is potentially fraud, however.


    Every broadband connection is NOT unlimited.
    Mine is currently 200GB per calendar month, which was 60GB then 100GB.

    You're the exception rather than the rule.

    Depends. Spain has a very deep fibre coverage, but there are rural areas without. If you have to depend on a router with a SIM card,

    That's not broadband in my book. It's mobile data.

    many
    providers limit the downloads per month. Even if you contract a
    limitless connection, in actual practice they have limits, and may
    severe your connection if you download movies every day.

    None of this is relevant to a neighbour accidentally connecting to your
    wifi. My point is there is no theft as there's no deprivation of internet access.

    I had a beach residence with such a connection. Land line copper
    connection had been available, till the entire copper network was decommissioned, and they did not deploy fibre to every place that had
    copper previously. Just 200 meters away.

    Like I said. That's an exception.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Wed Dec 3 14:02:06 2025
    On 2025-12-02 23:23, Chris wrote:
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-12-02 15:11, Chris wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
    On 01/12/2025 18:04, Chris wrote:
    wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote:
    On 28/11/2025 19:03, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 11/28/2025 3:47 AM, wasbit wrote:
    On 26/11/2025 13:55, micky wrote:
    OT?? if I'm using someone else's wifi, can he tell what's in email I'm
    sending or receiving, can he tell what I'm sending or receiving on the
    web, or what I'm sending or receiving here on Usenet?.˙˙ I would think
    not but just want to be sure.˙˙˙ He's a smart guy but no tech genius >>>>>>>>> afaik.˙ If he were a tech wiz, could he do it?

    My wifi has been giving me trouble since February, and last night on the
    upstairs computer, the cable internet would not work either.˙ The >>>>>>>>> Troubleshooter said the cable wasn't in, and indeed, I had sometimes >>>>>>>>> gotten success by pushing it in further, a millimeter, but that didn't
    work last night.˙˙ Even though the Verizon FIOS fiberoptic phone was >>>>>>>>> working and the Verizon box has a flashing led for the cable that goes
    to my computer.

    This morning I rebooted and on its own, it connected to the wifi of a >>>>>>>>> neighbor, but not to my own wifi˙˙ Hmmm after 30 minutes of using his,
    it just switched to my wifi.˙ But still not to the cable, which I >>>>>>>>> thought would take priority, plusd last night the Troubleshooter said my
    laptop's wifi was bad too, the one that hasn't worked since February. >>>>>>>>>

    Hmmm! 19 replies & not a mention of bandwidth theft.

    It seems to be mostly a tale about semi-broken or half-functional kit. >>>>>>> Since the OP has his own paid Internet service, there is no
    evidence of "100% leeching" going on, particularly. I bet the
    OP could tighten up his settings a bit.


    The OP knows he has connected to the neighbour's wifi but said nothing >>>>>> about having permission.
    Until clarified it is bandwidth theft.

    Theft requires that someone is deprived of something. Given every broadband
    connection is unlimited there is no "deprivation".

    Using something without paying for it is potentially fraud, however. >>>>>

    Every broadband connection is NOT unlimited.
    Mine is currently 200GB per calendar month, which was 60GB then 100GB.

    You're the exception rather than the rule.

    Depends. Spain has a very deep fibre coverage, but there are rural areas
    without. If you have to depend on a router with a SIM card,

    That's not broadband in my book. It's mobile data.

    It is the mobile network, but used with fixed hardware. A router with a SIM.



    many
    providers limit the downloads per month. Even if you contract a
    limitless connection, in actual practice they have limits, and may
    severe your connection if you download movies every day.

    None of this is relevant to a neighbour accidentally connecting to your
    wifi. My point is there is no theft as there's no deprivation of internet access.

    They use the limited bandwidth per month of the connection. The user
    might find that his connection ends early and doesn't have internet on
    day 20.


    I had a beach residence with such a connection. Land line copper
    connection had been available, till the entire copper network was
    decommissioned, and they did not deploy fibre to every place that had
    copper previously. Just 200 meters away.

    Like I said. That's an exception.

    Not an exception, there are many thousand people that have to use that
    service because there is no fibre or copper at their homes.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)