Lately, I've been noticing an ongoing slowing down of Windows 10 on my computer. First it was getting the Desktop toolbar I use from the
Taskbar, then it was the Start Menu itself (I use Open Shell) opening,
and now it's startup times for several programs that I use.

After extensive discussion with Copilot, we narrowed it down to
KB5068781, which applied kernel level security fixes and Secure Boot certificate updates. This could introduce extra checks during executable startup.

Anybody else noticed this?

TIA

--
John C. I filter crossposts, various trolls & dizum.com. Doing this
makes this newsgroup easier to read & more on-topic. Take back the tech companies from India & industry from China.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, 1 Dec 2025 04:35:16 -0800, "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:

Lately, I've been noticing an ongoing slowing down of Windows 10 on my >computer. First it was getting the Desktop toolbar I use from the
Taskbar, then it was the Start Menu itself (I use Open Shell) opening,
and now it's startup times for several programs that I use.

After extensive discussion with Copilot, we narrowed it down to
KB5068781, which applied kernel level security fixes and Secure Boot >certificate updates. This could introduce extra checks during executable >startup.

Anybody else noticed this?

Yes.

--
croy

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, 1 Dec 2025 04:35:16 -0800, "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:

Lately, I've been noticing an ongoing slowing down of Windows 10 on my >computer. []

Anybody else noticed this?

No, but now I'll start watching for it. I have one instance of Win 10 on hardware and about a dozen instances as VMs. No slowing down so far.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In article <10gk226$1als3$1@dont-email.me>, r9jmg0@yahoo.com (John C.) wrote:

*From:* "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com>
*Date:* Mon, 1 Dec 2025 04:35:16 -0800

Lately, I've been noticing an ongoing slowing down of Windows 10 on
my
computer. First it was getting the Desktop toolbar I use from the
Taskbar, then it was the Start Menu itself (I use Open Shell)
opening,
and now it's startup times for several programs that I use.

After extensive discussion with Copilot, we narrowed it down to
KB5068781, which applied kernel level security fixes and Secure Boot certificate updates. This could introduce extra checks during
executable
startup.

Anybody else noticed this?

Nope. No slowdown at all and 'yes' I do have that update installed (18th of November) and I also use Open Shell. Not sure what you mean by the "desktop toolbar"
though.

--
Regards
John

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

John C. wrote on 12/1/2025 5:35 AM:

Lately, I've been noticing an ongoing slowing down of Windows 10 on my computer. First it was getting the Desktop toolbar I use from the
Taskbar, then it was the Start Menu itself (I use Open Shell) opening,
and now it's startup times for several programs that I use.

After extensive discussion with Copilot, we narrowed it down to
KB5068781, which applied kernel level security fixes and Secure Boot certificate updates. This could introduce extra checks during executable startup.

Anybody else noticed this?

TIA

Nothing(slowing down) noticeable on Win10 22H2 on two devices(Desktop and Surface 3 tablet).

Fyi...the security update for secure boot in KB5068781 was specific and
only for smart card(no SDCX or SD media cards). Very limited, and unless
your device is capable of reading smart card(credit card size card with embedded chip) and contains smart card software or app, it is unlikely a Secure Boot update is related to a slow-down.


--
...w­¤?ñ?¤

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, 12/1/2025 7:35 AM, John C. wrote:

Lately, I've been noticing an ongoing slowing down of Windows 10 on my computer. First it was getting the Desktop toolbar I use from the
Taskbar, then it was the Start Menu itself (I use Open Shell) opening,
and now it's startup times for several programs that I use.

After extensive discussion with Copilot, we narrowed it down to
KB5068781, which applied kernel level security fixes and Secure Boot certificate updates. This could introduce extra checks during executable startup.

Anybody else noticed this?

TIA

I noticed some time ago (July 2025), that testing the
OSes and comparing them, only Windows 10 showed as being
slow on compute-bound things. I was using the SuperPI 1.5 mod
version to test.

On a test Windows 10 (on the 4930K Test Machine), when I patch
Win10 up-to-date (no ESU on that one), the SuperPI bench
does not change, and it is still slow compared to Windows 7 SP1
SuperPI runs.

Your complaint, could involve an ShellExperienceHost, it
could be DWM or FileExplorer. But that's just guesswork on
my part. You could use Process Monitor, to watch what things
happen when the slow operation is being observed.

If you are using Secure Boot for your Win10, there is
still a chance it could stop booting in the year 2026.
There was a warning about this from Microsoft recently.
What I noticed on the Big Machine, is no matter what
I tried, I could not get the 2023 certificate installed.
It seems something ubuntu did to UEFI, has something
to do with this, but I cannot be sure. If I had known
a Ubuntu install would be messing around in there, I never
would have run it there.

The only thing I haven't done on the Big Machine, is
used the UEFI factory reset. There are tales of brickage from
doing such things, so I'm more than a little hesitant to
be messing around. The likely result, is Secure Boot
will be turned off on the Big Machine for good.
No more experiments with Secure Boot.

*******

And in totally unrelated news, I got another hint yesterday,
about what the problem is on my daily driver.

I was typing away, I brought some window to the front.
The window stopped responding. I looked down, and my mouse
LED was off, and the shift key didn't work on the keyboard.
The bloody machine had turned off the +5VSB to peripherals
again.

Now, normally when that happens, I'd be pressing Reset
and rebooting it. And the log would note a dirty shutdown
and no error recorded.

Well, this time, something different happened. A watchdog
timer went off. It seemed to be the NVidia driver that
was involved (daily driver uses a GTX1050 to drive the screen,
a low end video card). The driver actually recovered. And,
it seemed to send a report to Microsoft (there was network
activity).

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: LiveKernelEvent
Code: 1b8

Extra information about the problem
Bucket ID: LKD_0x1B8_NV_Blackscreen_Blackbox_dxgkrnl!DxgCreateLiveDumpWithDriverBlob

Now, why would a driver failure, cause the power to my PS/2 keyboard
and USB mouse, to be turned off ?

And before the GTX1050 went in there as a bandaid,
this was happening with the AMD iGPU in the processor.
That iGPU is turned off now, as I'm using a video
card instead. And this problem does not show
on the other machines.

Paul

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2025/12/2 7:51:58, Paul wrote:

[]

And in totally unrelated news, I got another hint yesterday,
about what the problem is on my daily driver.

I was typing away, I brought some window to the front.
The window stopped responding. I looked down, and my mouse
LED was off, and the shift key didn't work on the keyboard.
The bloody machine had turned off the +5VSB to peripherals
again.

Now, normally when that happens, I'd be pressing Reset
and rebooting it. And the log would note a dirty shutdown
and no error recorded.

Could you instead plug in a keyboard and mouse plugged into an externally-powered hub (possibly the same KB+M), rather than doing a reset?

Well, this time, something different happened. A watchdog
timer went off. It seemed to be the NVidia driver that
was involved (daily driver uses a GTX1050 to drive the screen,
a low end video card). The driver actually recovered. And,
it seemed to send a report to Microsoft (there was network
activity).

[]

So that caused the +5VSB to be turned on again?

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Who came first? Adam or Eve?" "Adam of course; men always do."
Victoria Wood (via Peter Hesketh)

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Tue, 12/2/2025 8:40 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

On 2025/12/2 7:51:58, Paul wrote:

[]

And in totally unrelated news, I got another hint yesterday,
about what the problem is on my daily driver.

I was typing away, I brought some window to the front.
The window stopped responding. I looked down, and my mouse
LED was off, and the shift key didn't work on the keyboard.
The bloody machine had turned off the +5VSB to peripherals
again.

Now, normally when that happens, I'd be pressing Reset
and rebooting it. And the log would note a dirty shutdown
and no error recorded.

Could you instead plug in a keyboard and mouse plugged into an externally-powered hub (possibly the same KB+M), rather than doing a reset?

Well, this time, something different happened. A watchdog
timer went off. It seemed to be the NVidia driver that
was involved (daily driver uses a GTX1050 to drive the screen,
a low end video card). The driver actually recovered. And,
it seemed to send a report to Microsoft (there was network
activity).

[]

So that caused the +5VSB to be turned on again?

I believe it did. As I went over and used Reliability Monitor,
to suck out that error code :-) While the network interface LED
was flashing and the error report was being sent.

Once the power drops on the I/O plate, no amount of
tomfoolery external to the machine, will cause data
to enter the dead port(s). The VCC on the USB I/O pad
has dropped, by the looks of it. I don't recollect any
other OS, doing something like this.

There *was* a working watchdog, during boot. When the
NVidia driver is coming up, and the Nvidia driver loses
contact with one of the GTX1000 series video cards, the
driver could recover. It was the Linux Nouveau driver,
that could not recover from that loss of communications.

For all of the movements of hardware that have been
used to try and figure out where the problem was, it
would appear there is something about the specific motherboard
that encourages it. I have an identical motherboard in
another machine, and it doesn't do that. But the other machine
doesn't have as much RAM as this one does, so the populations
of things are not consistent for a "test piece".

And for a good long while, this piece of shit "just worked".
It was not doing this from the beginning. It might have
been a year after getting it, that this started to happen.

I just think it is cool, that the watchdog is wired up again.
Whoever or whatever did it. When this first came out, it was
called "VPU Reset" and it was seen on an AMD video card. And the
notion of watchdogs is not new, and has been around forever
(like at my work).

Paul


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2025/12/2 19:25:43, Paul wrote:

On Tue, 12/2/2025 8:40 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

On 2025/12/2 7:51:58, Paul wrote:

[]

Now, normally when that happens, I'd be pressing Reset
and rebooting it. And the log would note a dirty shutdown
and no error recorded.

Could you instead plug in a keyboard and mouse plugged into an
externally-powered hub (possibly the same KB+M), rather than doing a reset?

[]

Once the power drops on the I/O plate, no amount of
tomfoolery external to the machine, will cause data
to enter the dead port(s). The VCC on the USB I/O pad
has dropped, by the looks of it. I don't recollect any

I should have guessed that.

[]

I just think it is cool, that the watchdog is wired up again.
Whoever or whatever did it. When this first came out, it was
called "VPU Reset" and it was seen on an AMD video card. And the
notion of watchdogs is not new, and has been around forever
(like at my work).

Paul

Yes, same with where I worked; watchdog being a _hardware_ circuit that
would hard-reset the system unless it received input from time to time -
to avoid software latchups. My colleague with the sense of humour
thought of it as a real dog that would bark unless fed, and had
subroutines called things like "feed dog" and "wash dish".

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The bottleneck is always at the top of the bottle. - Attributed to
Peter Drucker (re management), by @Eric_Partaker 2023-7-14

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 25/12/01 11:22 AM, John K.Eason wrote:

In article <10gk226$1als3$1@dont-email.me>, r9jmg0@yahoo.com (John C.) wrote:

*From:* "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com>
*Date:* Mon, 1 Dec 2025 04:35:16 -0800

Lately, I've been noticing an ongoing slowing down of Windows 10 on
my
computer. First it was getting the Desktop toolbar I use from the
Taskbar, then it was the Start Menu itself (I use Open Shell)
opening,
and now it's startup times for several programs that I use.

After extensive discussion with Copilot, we narrowed it down to
KB5068781, which applied kernel level security fixes and Secure Boot
certificate updates. This could introduce extra checks during
executable
startup.

Anybody else noticed this?

Nope. No slowdown at all and 'yes' I do have that update installed (18th of November) and I also use Open Shell. Not sure what you mean by the "desktop toolbar"
though.

If you right click on the taskbar, you'll see "Toolbars" at the top of
the resulting context menu. If you click on that, you'll see "Address",
"Links" and "Desktop". If you select "Desktop, that toolbar will appear
in the task bar and clicking on it will shoe a list of any desktop
shortcuts you have set up.

--
John C. I filter crossposts, various trolls & dizum.com. Doing this
makes this newsgroup easier to read & more on-topic. Take back the tech companies from India & industry from China.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 25/12/01 02:46 PM, ...w­¤?ñ?¤ wrote:

John C. wrote on 12/1/2025 5:35 AM:

Lately, I've been noticing an ongoing slowing down of Windows 10 on my
computer. First it was getting the Desktop toolbar I use from the
Taskbar, then it was the Start Menu itself (I use Open Shell) opening,
and now it's startup times for several programs that I use.

After extensive discussion with Copilot, we narrowed it down to
KB5068781, which applied kernel level security fixes and Secure Boot
certificate updates. This could introduce extra checks during executable
startup.

Anybody else noticed this?

TIA

Nothing(slowing down) noticeable on Win10 22H2 on two devices(Desktop
and Surface 3 tablet).

Fyi...the security update for secure boot in KB5068781 was specific and
only for smart card(no SDCX or SD media cards). Very limited, and unless
your device is capable of reading smart card(credit card size card with embedded chip) and contains smart card software or app, it is unlikely a Secure Boot update is related to a slow-down.

At the end of my conversation with Copilot about the topic, it said the following:

"The slowdown you?re seeing most likely stems from KB5068781?s security hardening, not KB5072653. Microsoft isn?t optimizing Windows 10
performance anymore ? only patching vulnerabilities ? so overhead
introduced by these updates won?t be tuned away. That aligns with your observation: Windows 10 feels slower after ESU updates, while Windows 11 continues to be actively optimized."

--
John C. I filter crossposts, various trolls & dizum.com. Doing this
makes this newsgroup easier to read & more on-topic. Take back the tech companies from India & industry from China.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Tue, 12/2/2025 8:10 PM, John C. wrote:

On 25/12/01 11:22 AM, John K.Eason wrote:

In article <10gk226$1als3$1@dont-email.me>, r9jmg0@yahoo.com (John C.) wrote:

*From:* "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com>
*Date:* Mon, 1 Dec 2025 04:35:16 -0800

Lately, I've been noticing an ongoing slowing down of Windows 10 on
my
computer. First it was getting the Desktop toolbar I use from the
Taskbar, then it was the Start Menu itself (I use Open Shell)
opening,
and now it's startup times for several programs that I use.

After extensive discussion with Copilot, we narrowed it down to
KB5068781, which applied kernel level security fixes and Secure Boot
certificate updates. This could introduce extra checks during
executable
startup.

Anybody else noticed this?

Nope. No slowdown at all and 'yes' I do have that update installed (18th of >> November) and I also use Open Shell. Not sure what you mean by the "desktop toolbar"
though.

If you right click on the taskbar, you'll see "Toolbars" at the top of
the resulting context menu. If you click on that, you'll see "Address", "Links" and "Desktop". If you select "Desktop, that toolbar will appear
in the task bar and clicking on it will shoe a list of any desktop
shortcuts you have set up.

That seems to be responding normally here. Click on the >> and the menu appears instantly.

>>
Desktop

And that is on Win10 patched up to date (all in-band updates,
don't know about any that are to be installed outside of
Windows Update). Win10 Pro 19045.6466

Paul


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 25/12/02 07:52 PM, Paul wrote:

On Tue, 12/2/2025 8:10 PM, John C. wrote:

On 25/12/01 11:22 AM, John K.Eason wrote:

In article <10gk226$1als3$1@dont-email.me>, r9jmg0@yahoo.com (John C.) wrote:

*From:* "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com>
*Date:* Mon, 1 Dec 2025 04:35:16 -0800

Lately, I've been noticing an ongoing slowing down of Windows 10 on
my
computer. First it was getting the Desktop toolbar I use from the
Taskbar, then it was the Start Menu itself (I use Open Shell)
opening,
and now it's startup times for several programs that I use.

After extensive discussion with Copilot, we narrowed it down to
KB5068781, which applied kernel level security fixes and Secure Boot
certificate updates. This could introduce extra checks during
executable
startup.

Anybody else noticed this?

Nope. No slowdown at all and 'yes' I do have that update installed (18th of >>> November) and I also use Open Shell. Not sure what you mean by the "desktop toolbar"
though.

If you right click on the taskbar, you'll see "Toolbars" at the top of
the resulting context menu. If you click on that, you'll see "Address",
"Links" and "Desktop". If you select "Desktop, that toolbar will appear
in the task bar and clicking on it will shoe a list of any desktop
shortcuts you have set up.

That seems to be responding normally here. Click on the >> and the menu appears instantly.

>>
Desktop

And that is on Win10 patched up to date (all in-band updates,
don't know about any that are to be installed outside of
Windows Update). Win10 Pro 19045.6466

The issue with the Start Menu is a well known problem with users who,
like me, are using Open Shell. There is discussion of this topic here:

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu/issues/2306

A slow opening of the Desktop Toolbar, which I use, seems to have been
possible to deal with if I turned off Windows Security Real-Time
Protection. Can't remember for sure though.

The main issue I'm having is a pronounced delay now when opening almost
any program. Once the program begins loading though, from that point on
there is no speed difference.

--
John C. I filter crossposts, various trolls & dizum.com. Doing this
makes this newsgroup easier to read & more on-topic. Take back the tech companies from India & industry from China.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2025/12/3 13:45:8, John C. wrote:

[]

The issue with the Start Menu is a well known problem with users who,
like me, are using Open Shell. There is discussion of this topic here:

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu/issues/2306

A slow opening of the Desktop Toolbar, which I use, seems to have been possible to deal with if I turned off Windows Security Real-Time
Protection. Can't remember for sure though.

The main issue I'm having is a pronounced delay now when opening almost
any program. Once the program begins loading though, from that point on
there is no speed difference.

I'm using Classic Shell (despite its webpage saying it's obsolete/not
being developed/whatever), as I have been since Windows 7; I've not
noticed any significant slowdown.

I _did_ notice some general slowdown - PC seemed to be doing something
that was making it busy (mouse cursor moved jerkily, that sort of
thing), a few days - maybe a week - ago; but that seems to have righted
itself.

(I'm still getting the apparent-stuck-modifier-key I've mentioned
before, which I'm pretty sure is _not_ hardware, occasionally; doing
"switch user" - to me, I'm the only user - from the Ctrl-Alt-Del menu
clears it. Nothing else does, including - usually - the OSK [that does
very occasionally]. But that's not a slowdown, just an irritant.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

We must, of course, ensure that we display no bias. The bias I worry
about most is the bias against understanding.
- Nick Robinson, RT 2017/4/8-14

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In article <10go2mn$2rji6$1@dont-email.me>, r9jmg0@yahoo.com (John C.) wrote:

Not sure what you mean by the "desktop toolbar" though.

If you right click on the taskbar, you'll see "Toolbars" at the top
of the resulting context menu. If you click on that, you'll see
"Address", "Links" and "Desktop". If you select "Desktop, that toolbar
will appear in the task bar and clicking on it will shoe a list of any desktop shortcuts you have set up.

Ah ok. I use my eyes to see what's already on the desktop for that! No point in calling up yet another toolbar! :^)

--
Regards
John

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)