• Re: crash losing newsgroups?

    From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Thu Mar 19 17:34:49 2026
    On 2026/3/19 16:54:19, VanguardLH wrote:
    []
    Not a TBird solution, but perhaps instead of doing a catastrophic power failure and reboot to get out of some process that has frozen the inputs (keyboard and mouse), can you just temporarily (tap) the Power button to request a Shutdown? That is a more graceful exit than yanking power.
    If the frozen program blocking all input doesn't respond to the OS'
    request for it to exit, the OS should show you which program is not responding, and let you kill it.

    I've just gone into settings, and I had the power button set to "sleep".
    I hadn't been aware it had a function other than shut-down-if-held, so
    I've learnt something. Having said that, presumably _something_ should
    have happened when I pressed it to start the power-off, and nothing
    happened until after the required number of seconds.

    I don't _think_ the OS would have had a chance to tell me what was not responding - I know what had anyway, and it was a full-screen one.

    Power options in the OS should have a setting on what the Power button
    does. Instead of having it immediately drop power, configure it to do a Shutdown. Then you tap the Power button to request a shutdown. Don't

    Have now done that - will see next time this happens.

    hold down as the hardware will see the long press and yank away power if
    the Power button is held down for more than about 8 seconds.

    Presumably it is not Tbird that is freezing, and also preventing input (keyboard and mouse), but some other program. Tbird should honor a
    shutdown request. However, if you aren't always using Tbird, you really

    Well, I more or less am.

    should exit it when not using it. Having it loaded all the time means
    it keeps handles on its open files, and a crash means buffered data
    won't get written, or the open files could get corrupted. It's not just
    a program that could freeze your computer, but other sources of hangs,
    like video drivers, using the GPU for hardware acceleration in web
    browsers, or a power outage at your home. Use, and exit, then later
    reload, and exit again, and repeat.

    I was coming back after a period away from the machine - I hadn't left
    it doing anything like the things you mention.

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Cumulatively, however, they do get my goat, on my wick and up my nose,
    to the extent I am angry enough to stick a wick up a goat's nose and to
    hell with the consequences. - Eddie Mair, RT 2016/2/27-3/4

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Retirednoguilt@3:633/10 to All on Thu Mar 19 14:19:42 2026
    On 3/19/2026 1:34 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/3/19 16:54:19, VanguardLH wrote:
    []
    Not a TBird solution, but perhaps instead of doing a catastrophic power
    failure and reboot to get out of some process that has frozen the inputs
    (keyboard and mouse), can you just temporarily (tap) the Power button to
    request a Shutdown? That is a more graceful exit than yanking power.
    If the frozen program blocking all input doesn't respond to the OS'
    request for it to exit, the OS should show you which program is not
    responding, and let you kill it.

    I've just gone into settings, and I had the power button set to "sleep".
    I hadn't been aware it had a function other than shut-down-if-held, so
    I've learnt something. Having said that, presumably _something_ should
    have happened when I pressed it to start the power-off, and nothing
    happened until after the required number of seconds.

    I don't _think_ the OS would have had a chance to tell me what was not responding - I know what had anyway, and it was a full-screen one.

    Power options in the OS should have a setting on what the Power button
    does. Instead of having it immediately drop power, configure it to do a
    Shutdown. Then you tap the Power button to request a shutdown. Don't

    Have now done that - will see next time this happens.

    hold down as the hardware will see the long press and yank away power if
    the Power button is held down for more than about 8 seconds.

    Presumably it is not Tbird that is freezing, and also preventing input
    (keyboard and mouse), but some other program. Tbird should honor a
    shutdown request. However, if you aren't always using Tbird, you really

    Well, I more or less am.

    should exit it when not using it. Having it loaded all the time means
    it keeps handles on its open files, and a crash means buffered data
    won't get written, or the open files could get corrupted. It's not just
    a program that could freeze your computer, but other sources of hangs,
    like video drivers, using the GPU for hardware acceleration in web
    browsers, or a power outage at your home. Use, and exit, then later
    reload, and exit again, and repeat.

    I was coming back after a period away from the machine - I hadn't left
    it doing anything like the things you mention.

    If your PC is not totally frozen and still responds to the keyboard, I
    find that CTL-ALT-DEL (simultaneously) usually produces a menu on the
    monitor. One of the choices is the task manager. Even if the mouse
    cursor is absent from the screen or frozen, the keyboard cursor keys may
    let you select a menu choice which you can activate with the "Enter"
    key. Sometimes, selecting the task manager will open it (expect a
    sluggish response) and you can selectively "kill" open programs which
    usually unfreezes the OS. CTL-ALT-DEL is still honored on Win 10 and
    Win 11. If that doesn't work, the power button is my second option.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Thu Mar 19 15:17:52 2026
    On Thu, 3/19/2026 2:19 PM, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 3/19/2026 1:34 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/3/19 16:54:19, VanguardLH wrote:
    []
    Not a TBird solution, but perhaps instead of doing a catastrophic power
    failure and reboot to get out of some process that has frozen the inputs >>> (keyboard and mouse), can you just temporarily (tap) the Power button to >>> request a Shutdown? That is a more graceful exit than yanking power.
    If the frozen program blocking all input doesn't respond to the OS'
    request for it to exit, the OS should show you which program is not
    responding, and let you kill it.

    I've just gone into settings, and I had the power button set to "sleep".
    I hadn't been aware it had a function other than shut-down-if-held, so
    I've learnt something. Having said that, presumably _something_ should
    have happened when I pressed it to start the power-off, and nothing
    happened until after the required number of seconds.

    I don't _think_ the OS would have had a chance to tell me what was not
    responding - I know what had anyway, and it was a full-screen one.

    Power options in the OS should have a setting on what the Power button
    does. Instead of having it immediately drop power, configure it to do a >>> Shutdown. Then you tap the Power button to request a shutdown. Don't

    Have now done that - will see next time this happens.

    hold down as the hardware will see the long press and yank away power if >>> the Power button is held down for more than about 8 seconds.

    Presumably it is not Tbird that is freezing, and also preventing input
    (keyboard and mouse), but some other program. Tbird should honor a
    shutdown request. However, if you aren't always using Tbird, you really

    Well, I more or less am.

    should exit it when not using it. Having it loaded all the time means
    it keeps handles on its open files, and a crash means buffered data
    won't get written, or the open files could get corrupted. It's not just >>> a program that could freeze your computer, but other sources of hangs,
    like video drivers, using the GPU for hardware acceleration in web
    browsers, or a power outage at your home. Use, and exit, then later
    reload, and exit again, and repeat.

    I was coming back after a period away from the machine - I hadn't left
    it doing anything like the things you mention.

    If your PC is not totally frozen and still responds to the keyboard, I
    find that CTL-ALT-DEL (simultaneously) usually produces a menu on the monitor. One of the choices is the task manager. Even if the mouse
    cursor is absent from the screen or frozen, the keyboard cursor keys may
    let you select a menu choice which you can activate with the "Enter"
    key. Sometimes, selecting the task manager will open it (expect a
    sluggish response) and you can selectively "kill" open programs which
    usually unfreezes the OS. CTL-ALT-DEL is still honored on Win 10 and
    Win 11. If that doesn't work, the power button is my second option.


    It's probably the same bug I've been seeing.

    I would keep a few more profile backups, as the bug
    is likely to come back every two to three days.

    As the only evidence, will be reports in Eventvwr.msc of a
    "dirty shutdown" (which is you having to press the button of course),
    there is seemingly no recording of a root cause event which causes
    the loss of I/O power on a computer. This bug can cause

    a black screen
    keyboard LEDs go off
    mouse LED goes off
    USB connector power is likely removed as well.

    Ctrl-alt-delete does not work, because the keyboard
    has been powered off by the "agent" doing this.

    It smacks of the description long ago of a "jiggler
    triggered by a suspected malware event". In the P.R.
    release, the release claims "we can shut off your
    machine in 10 microseconds (!!) if heuristic detection
    determines malware is present". But as is usual
    with these fantasy features, there is no documentation,
    no symptom set we can match to, and NO EVENTVWR RECORD.
    How much more stoopid can you get ???

    This is how you make people switch to Linux...

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Thu Mar 19 19:43:21 2026
    On 2026/3/19 19:17:52, Paul wrote:
    On Thu, 3/19/2026 2:19 PM, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 3/19/2026 1:34 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/3/19 16:54:19, VanguardLH wrote:
    []
    Not a TBird solution, but perhaps instead of doing a catastrophic power >>>> failure and reboot to get out of some process that has frozen the inputs >>>> (keyboard and mouse), can you just temporarily (tap) the Power button to >>>> request a Shutdown? That is a more graceful exit than yanking power.
    If the frozen program blocking all input doesn't respond to the OS'
    request for it to exit, the OS should show you which program is not
    responding, and let you kill it.

    I've just gone into settings, and I had the power button set to "sleep". >>> I hadn't been aware it had a function other than shut-down-if-held, so
    I've learnt something. Having said that, presumably _something_ should
    have happened when I pressed it to start the power-off, and nothing
    happened until after the required number of seconds.

    I don't _think_ the OS would have had a chance to tell me what was not
    responding - I know what had anyway, and it was a full-screen one.

    Power options in the OS should have a setting on what the Power button >>>> does. Instead of having it immediately drop power, configure it to do a >>>> Shutdown. Then you tap the Power button to request a shutdown. Don't

    Have now done that - will see next time this happens.

    hold down as the hardware will see the long press and yank away power if >>>> the Power button is held down for more than about 8 seconds.

    Presumably it is not Tbird that is freezing, and also preventing input >>>> (keyboard and mouse), but some other program. Tbird should honor a
    shutdown request. However, if you aren't always using Tbird, you really >>>
    Well, I more or less am.

    should exit it when not using it. Having it loaded all the time means >>>> it keeps handles on its open files, and a crash means buffered data
    won't get written, or the open files could get corrupted. It's not just >>>> a program that could freeze your computer, but other sources of hangs, >>>> like video drivers, using the GPU for hardware acceleration in web
    browsers, or a power outage at your home. Use, and exit, then later
    reload, and exit again, and repeat.

    I was coming back after a period away from the machine - I hadn't left
    it doing anything like the things you mention.

    If your PC is not totally frozen and still responds to the keyboard, I
    find that CTL-ALT-DEL (simultaneously) usually produces a menu on the
    monitor. One of the choices is the task manager. Even if the mouse

    If it did, I fear it was obscured by the function that had frozen, which
    is full-screen.

    cursor is absent from the screen or frozen, the keyboard cursor keys may
    let you select a menu choice which you can activate with the "Enter"

    Maybe I'll try to memorise those options so I can select one another
    time. (The only time I've used C-A-D recently has been to select "change
    user", which someone - quite possibly one of you two - suggested as a
    cure for my occasional - and software - sticky Ctrl key; since I'm the
    only user, it comes back fairly quickly, and does cure that problem.
    Though I've learnt to close Thunderbird before doing it, as it tends to
    come back in a postage-stamp size, requiring edge dragging to get back
    where I was.) But I don't _think_ the C-A-D menu was there, even
    obscured - can't say why, I just _feel_ the freeze was more drastic than
    that.

    key. Sometimes, selecting the task manager will open it (expect a
    sluggish response) and you can selectively "kill" open programs which

    I'm pretty doubtful I'd get as far as Task Manager.

    usually unfreezes the OS. CTL-ALT-DEL is still honored on Win 10 and
    Win 11. If that doesn't work, the power button is my second option.


    It's probably the same bug I've been seeing.

    Why do you say that? This is the first time this particular software has frozen.

    I would keep a few more profile backups, as the bug
    is likely to come back every two to three days.

    As the only evidence, will be reports in Eventvwr.msc of a
    "dirty shutdown" (which is you having to press the button of course),
    there is seemingly no recording of a root cause event which causes
    the loss of I/O power on a computer. This bug can cause

    a black screen
    keyboard LEDs go off
    mouse LED goes off
    USB connector power is likely removed as well.

    Ctrl-alt-delete does not work, because the keyboard
    has been powered off by the "agent" doing this.

    FWIW neither the internal nor external keyboard seemed to be getting
    through. I don't _think_ USB power went off - I have a cheap fan tray,
    and I didn't notice its light (everything has a blue light these days!)
    going off. Though I might not, concentrating as I was on the computer.

    It smacks of the description long ago of a "jiggler
    triggered by a suspected malware event". In the P.R.
    release, the release claims "we can shut off your
    machine in 10 microseconds (!!) if heuristic detection
    determines malware is present". But as is usual
    with these fantasy features, there is no documentation,
    no symptom set we can match to, and NO EVENTVWR RECORD.
    How much more stoopid can you get ???

    This is how you make people switch to Linux...

    I'm too old to now - but even when I wasn't, I'd need convincing (by a
    lot more than just enthusiasm/advocacy!) that exactly the same sort of
    thing couldn't happen in that.

    Paul

    John

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    If you help someone when they're in trouble, they will remember you when they're in trouble again.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)