• Re: (old_version.exe + delta update) == (new_version.exe)??

    From ....winston@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 08:58:08 2026
    On 06/15/2026 6:52 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:


    Delta update method.... I know mainframe operating systems use delta updates. I wonder what will happen if you re-install an mainframe
    operating system ... would you need to apply YEARS of delta updates afterwards??


    No.

    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 22:35:51 2026
    On 6/15/2026 8:58 PM, ....winston wrote:
    On 06/15/2026 6:52 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    Delta update method.... I know mainframe operating systems use delta
    updates. I wonder what will happen if you re-install an mainframe
    operating system ... would you need to apply YEARS of delta updates
    afterwards??

    No.


    I have never ever operated a mainframe computer. I supposed you know
    what you said. :)


    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 14:07:10 2026
    On Mon, 6/15/2026 10:35 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/15/2026 8:58 PM, ....winston wrote:
    On 06/15/2026 6:52 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    Delta update method.... I know mainframe operating systems use delta
    updates. I wonder what will happen if you re-install an mainframe
    operating system ... would you need to apply YEARS of delta updates
    afterwards??

    No.


    I have never ever operated a mainframe computer. I supposed you know what you said. :)



    The mainframe is just like a personal computer,
    only it has a bigger power plug.

    If you've ever been in a mainframe computer room, one
    thing you remember, is how cold it is in there. You will
    forget all your delta updates, once you are freezing
    your ass off in there.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dennis@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 18:31:14 2026
    On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 14:07:10 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

    If you've ever been in a mainframe computer room, one
    thing you remember, is how cold it is in there.

    That brings back memories. Kept a sweater in my desk drawer in case I
    ever had to do any work inside the ice box. :)

    --

    Dennis in Cincinnati

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ....winston@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 20:24:59 2026
    On 06/15/2026 10:35 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/15/2026 8:58 PM, ....winston wrote:
    On 06/15/2026 6:52 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    Delta update method.... I know mainframe operating systems use delta
    updates. I wonder what will happen if you re-install an mainframe
    operating system ... would you need to apply YEARS of delta updates
    afterwards??

    No.


    I have never ever operated a mainframe computer. I supposed you know
    what you said. :)



    In an Enterprise environment, when using Delta Updates...the initial
    install is almost always a recent version/build image created and
    patched with the most recent cumulative update. That image can be
    deployed to a test device(e.g. physical or virtual device) for an admin console[1] to view and oversee available updates and install and rebuild
    the image for deployment.

    Thereafter, the image deployment to a device since it has the most
    recent approved updates, that same admin console approach is/can be used
    to deploy delta updates, thus keeping the device udpated with the
    smaller size delta update(recent update) instead of the larger cumulative(everything) update.

    i.e. there would be know real value(time, expense, rationale) to deploy
    an old image void of prior updates(cumulative or delta), thus the need
    to apply "Years of delta updates" would be inefficient(and reasonably
    stupid or a extremely good reason to find another more qualified person
    to manage and oversee the entire process)
    - Therefore, the 'No' answer.


    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 12:35:44 2026
    On 6/16/2026 8:24 AM, ....winston wrote:

    In an Enterprise environment, when using Delta Updates...the initial
    install is almost always a recent version/build image created and
    ......
    to apply "Years of delta updates" would be inefficient(and reasonably
    stupid or a extremely good reason to find another more qualified person
    to manage and oversee the entire process)
    - Therefore, the 'No' answer.

    Thank you... thank you!!

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 12:40:27 2026
    On 6/16/2026 2:07 AM, Paul wrote:

    If you've ever been in a mainframe computer room, one
    thing you remember, is how cold it is in there. You will
    forget all your delta updates, once you are freezing
    your ass off in there.

    Operators usually wear suits, like Men In Black. Not sure about (sexy?)
    female operators. And outside contractors.

    I did enter and exit a mainframe computer room when doing industrial
    placement in IBM World Trade (Asia) Corp. in Hong Kong. It's not that "freezing your ass off". :)

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 07:44:33 2026
    On Tue, 6/16/2026 12:40 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/16/2026 2:07 AM, Paul wrote:

    If you've ever been in a mainframe computer room, one
    thing you remember, is how cold it is in there. You will
    forget all your delta updates, once you are freezing
    your ass off in there.

    Operators usually wear suits, like Men In Black. Not sure about (sexy?) female operators. And outside contractors.

    I did enter and exit a mainframe computer room when doing industrial placement in
    IBM World Trade (Asia) Corp. in Hong Kong. It's not that "freezing your ass off". :)

    Thermal practices vary by installation. Some of our mainframes
    were installed in building spaces with weird dimensions
    (long and slim). Those style of facilities did not use
    the "killer" chiller plant. You could dress normally there.

    The CDC machine, it might have been 57F with a breeze in there
    (the breeze is the part that kills you), and the woman operator
    wearing the thick angora sweater, she was constantly hugging herself
    for warmth. She just hated working in those conditions, but that wasn't
    a union shop. She never ever smiled. That's why
    my nick for her was "The Ice Queen".

    And nobody wore suits in our mainframe facilities. Same goes
    for the university mainframe. Attire was casual. You would
    wear something heavy enough, for the conditions.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 19:48:01 2026
    On 6/16/2026 7:44 PM, Paul wrote:

    The CDC machine, it might have been 57F with a breeze in there
    (the breeze is the part that kills you), and the woman operator
    wearing the thick angora sweater, she was constantly hugging herself
    for warmth. She just hated working in those conditions, but that wasn't
    a union shop. She never ever smiled. That's why
    my nick for her was "The Ice Queen".

    You should have hugged "The Ice Queen" more often and tightly!!

    Sorry, It's off-topic and PG13. :)

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E. R.@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 15:19:29 2026
    On 2026-06-16 13:44, Paul wrote:
    On Tue, 6/16/2026 12:40 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/16/2026 2:07 AM, Paul wrote:

    If you've ever been in a mainframe computer room, one
    thing you remember, is how cold it is in there. You will
    forget all your delta updates, once you are freezing
    your ass off in there.

    Operators usually wear suits, like Men In Black. Not sure about (sexy?) female operators. And outside contractors.

    I did enter and exit a mainframe computer room when doing industrial placement in
    IBM World Trade (Asia) Corp. in Hong Kong. It's not that "freezing your ass off". :)

    Thermal practices vary by installation. Some of our mainframes
    were installed in building spaces with weird dimensions
    (long and slim). Those style of facilities did not use
    the "killer" chiller plant. You could dress normally there.

    The CDC machine, it might have been 57F with a breeze in there
    (the breeze is the part that kills you), and the woman operator
    wearing the thick angora sweater, she was constantly hugging herself
    for warmth. She just hated working in those conditions, but that wasn't
    a union shop. She never ever smiled. That's why
    my nick for her was "The Ice Queen".

    ROTFL :-D


    And nobody wore suits in our mainframe facilities. Same goes
    for the university mainframe. Attire was casual. You would
    wear something heavy enough, for the conditions.

    It is worse if you sit down.

    I'm told there are worse places: abattoirs. I knew a cleaning girl that preferred cleaning than working there. She got sick.

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 21:55:29 2026
    On 6/16/2026 9:19 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 13:44, Paul wrote:

    The CDC machine, it might have been 57F with a breeze in there
    (the breeze is the part that kills you), and the woman operator
    wearing the thick angora sweater, she was constantly hugging herself
    for warmth. She just hated working in those conditions, but that wasn't
    a union shop. She never ever smiled. That's why
    my nick for her was "The Ice Queen".

    It is worse if you sit down.

    I'm told there are worse places: abattoirs. I knew a cleaning girl that preferred cleaning than working there. She got sick.

    Better wear a full face-mask and a disposable coat. Abattoirs are as
    dangerous as mortuary in hospitals. The floor is always dirty.

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ....winston@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 10:26:30 2026
    On 06/16/2026 9:19 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 13:44, Paul wrote:
    And nobody wore suits in our mainframe facilities. Same goes
    for the university mainframe. Attire was casual. You would
    wear something heavy enough, for the conditions.

    It is worse if you sit down.

    I'm told there are worse places: abattoirs. I knew a cleaning girl that preferred cleaning than working there. She got sick.


    A place unlikely for any Windows 11 or 10 devices at 7C/44F or lower.

    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 23:03:45 2026
    On 6/16/2026 10:26 PM, ....winston wrote:
    On 06/16/2026 9:19 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 13:44, Paul wrote:
    And nobody wore suits in our mainframe facilities. Same goes
    for the university mainframe. Attire was casual. You would
    wear something heavy enough, for the conditions.

    A place unlikely for any Windows 11 or 10 devices at 7C/44F or lower.


    No.

    3270 terminal emulation is available since MS-DOS days. You needed a
    3270 adapter to do it, and relevant software of course. Nowadays, I
    believe IBM mainframes can bridge with TCP/IP and run 3270 terminal
    emulation on top of it. The same should go to IBM AS/400.

    windows 3270 emulation - Google ?? <https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&channel=entpr&q=windows+3270+emulation>

    IBM 3270 - Wikipedia
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3270>

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E. R.@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 20:28:41 2026
    On 2026-06-16 15:55, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/16/2026 9:19 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 13:44, Paul wrote:

    The CDC machine, it might have been 57F with a breeze in there
    (the breeze is the part that kills you), and the woman operator
    wearing the thick angora sweater, she was constantly hugging herself
    for warmth. She just hated working in those conditions, but that wasn't
    a union shop. She never ever smiled. That's why
    my nick for her was "The Ice Queen".

    It is worse if you sit down.

    I'm told there are worse places: abattoirs. I knew a cleaning girl that
    preferred cleaning than working there. She got sick.

    Better wear a full face-mask and a disposable coat. Abattoirs are as dangerous as mortuary in hospitals. The floor is always dirty.


    This place is spotless clean.

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E. R.@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 20:30:07 2026
    On 2026-06-16 16:26, ....winston wrote:
    On 06/16/2026 9:19 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 13:44, Paul wrote:
    And nobody wore suits in our mainframe facilities. Same goes
    for the university mainframe. Attire was casual. You would
    wear something heavy enough, for the conditions.

    It is worse if you sit down.

    I'm told there are worse places: abattoirs. I knew a cleaning girl
    that preferred cleaning than working there. She got sick.


    A place unlikely for any Windows 11 or 10 devices at 7C/44F or lower.

    I'm sure the place, if modern, is full of electronic controllers and computers.

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ....winston@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 20:05:49 2026
    On 06/16/2026 11:03 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/16/2026 10:26 PM, ....winston wrote:
    On 06/16/2026 9:19 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 13:44, Paul wrote:
    And nobody wore suits in our mainframe facilities. Same goes
    for the university mainframe. Attire was casual. You would
    wear something heavy enough, for the conditions.

    A place unlikely for any Windows 11 or 10 devices at 7C/44F or lower.


    No.

    You missed the point or didn't understand the concept.

    Few Windows 11 or 10 devices are present on mainframe servers(an
    unlikely place for Windows 11/10 devices). Windows 11/10 devices are
    external to mainframe environment and acting as endpoint for mainframe management.


    3270 terminal emulation is available since MS-DOS days. You needed a
    3270 adapter to do it, and relevant software of course. Nowadays, I
    believe IBM mainframes can bridge with TCP/IP and run 3270 terminal emulation on top of it. The same should go to IBM AS/400.

    Enterprise admins are not jumping through hoops to use 3270 emulation.

    Those 3270 emulators are becoming dinosaurs, less secure in protecting business or risk. For some time, the two-tier web-based alternatives
    that provide better security, compliance, better overall practices for
    end-end encryption, PassTicket, Name Assignment, MFA/SSO integration, simplified maintenance, lower effort(cost, manpower), updates, user experience.



    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jun 17 11:08:36 2026
    On 6/17/2026 8:05 AM, ....winston wrote:
    On 06/16/2026 11:03 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/16/2026 10:26 PM, ....winston wrote:

    A place unlikely for any Windows 11 or 10 devices at 7C/44F or lower.


    No.

    You missed the point or didn't understand the concept.
    Sorry... sorry... I failed to comprehend "7C/44F" as temperature
    readings. I now humblely appologize:

    BANG!!! BANG!!! (shot my hair!)

    Sorry!! :)

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jun 17 11:19:06 2026
    On 6/17/2026 8:05 AM, ....winston wrote:

    Few Windows 11 or 10 devices are present on mainframe servers(an
    unlikely place for Windows 11/10 devices). Windows 11/10 devices are
    external to mainframe environment and acting as endpoint for mainframe management.

    Why not place some Windows machines inside a computer room if they can
    run terminal emulation? I think operator consoles of IBM mainframes are
    still 3270????

    Enterprise admins are not jumping through hoops to use 3270 emulation.

    Which is strange!! There is nothing wrong about 3270, VT-100 and ANSI.
    To secure these old protocols, just box or wrap them with a security
    shield???

    BTW, IBM mainframes (and AS/400 possibly) have communication controllers
    with security built-in.

    Those 3270 emulators are becoming dinosaurs, less secure in protecting business or risk. For some time, the two-tier web-based ....

    What made modern LAN and Wifi adapters/USB dongles more secured? :)

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ....winston@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jun 17 02:31:16 2026
    On 06/16/2026 11:19 PM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/17/2026 8:05 AM, ....winston wrote:

    Few Windows 11 or 10 devices are present on mainframe servers(an
    unlikely place for Windows 11/10 devices). Windows 11/10 devices are
    external to mainframe environment and acting as endpoint for mainframe
    management.

    Why not place some Windows machines inside a computer room if they can
    run terminal emulation? I think operator consoles of IBM mainframes are still 3270????

    Again, missing the rationale. Not necessary to have endpoint devices in
    the mainframe room. Nor is there much of a need to waste a body to use
    them. That same body can do the same work externally.

    Enterprise admins are not jumping through hoops to use 3270 emulation.

    Which is strange!! There is nothing wrong about 3270, VT-100 and ANSI.
    To secure these old protocols, just box or wrap them with a security shield???

    Old school.
    Already explained the better(performance, time, expense, features) technology for the same task.


    BTW, IBM mainframes (and AS/400 possibly) have communication controllers with security built-in.

    Those 3270 emulators are becoming dinosaurs, less secure in protecting
    business or risk.ÿ For some time, the two-tier web-based ....

    What made modern LAN and Wifi adapters/USB dongles more secured?ÿ :)

    SAE/WP3, OWE, 192-bit, digital signed, secure bootstrapping.
    - which incidentally has nothing to do with emulation, old version, mainframe rooms, 3270.

    Feel free to have the last word. Your need to learn based on your
    questioning is not really Windows 11 or 10 newsgroup related topic.


    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jun 17 19:24:48 2026
    On 6/17/2026 2:31 PM, ....winston wrote:

    Feel free to have the last word. Your need to learn based on your
    questioning is not really Windows 11 or 10 newsgroup related topic.

    Okay, Master Winston. May the Force and farces be with you! Live long
    and prosper!!

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 12:59:47 2026
    On 6/17/2026 2:28 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 15:55, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    Better wear a full face-mask and a disposable coat. Abattoirs are as
    dangerous as mortuary in hospitals. The floor is always dirty.


    This place is spotless clean.


    That's strange. A *huamn* aAbattoir?? BANG!! BANG!! :)


    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 13:02:03 2026
    On 6/17/2026 2:31 PM, ....winston wrote:

    Again, missing the rationale. Not necessary to have endpoint devices in
    the mainframe room. Nor is there much of a need to waste a body to use
    them. That same body can do the same work externally.

    Old school.
    Already explained the better(performance, time, expense, features) technology for the same task.

    SAE/WP3, OWE, 192-bit, digital signed, secure bootstrapping.
    - which incidentally has nothing to do with emulation, old version, mainframe rooms, 3270.

    Feel free to have the last word. Your need to learn based on your
    questioning is not really Windows 11 or 10 newsgroup related topic.


    BTW, I think I rather talk to IBM suits directly than listening to your speculation and possibly wild guesses. :)

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 13:04:23 2026
    On 6/17/2026 2:30 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 16:26, ....winston wrote:

    A place unlikely for any Windows 11 or 10 devices at 7C/44F or lower.

    I'm sure the place, if modern, is full of electronic controllers and computers.



    I still don't see why a mainframe computer cannot have DOS, OS/2,
    Windows and Linux machines. Can I talk to your commander? :)

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ....winston@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 02:04:21 2026
    On 06/18/2026 1:02 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/17/2026 2:31 PM, ....winston wrote:

    Again, missing the rationale. Not necessary to have endpoint devices in
    the mainframe room. Nor is there much of a need to waste a body to use
    them.ÿ That same body can do the same work externally.

    Old school.
    ÿÿ Already explained the better(performance, time, expense, features)
    technology for the same task.

    SAE/WP3, OWE, 192-bit, digital signed, secure bootstrapping.
    ÿÿ - which incidentally has nothing to do with emulation, old version,
    mainframe rooms, 3270.

    Feel free to have the last word. Your need to learn based on your
    questioning is not really Windows 11 or 10 newsgroup related topic.


    BTW, I think I rather talk to IBM suits directly than listening to your speculation and possibly wild guesses. :)




    Lol..I passed along your 'rather talk to IBM suits' comment on this
    topic to a few of those admins..they all had pretty much the same type
    of response. Here's 3 of the PG responses
    - "Barking up the wrong pantlegs'
    - "Askhole approach"
    - "Try changing the meds"

    Your continued quest on mainframes - 3270, having DOS, Windows, Linux is
    the essence of novelty..asking for something or about something no one
    needs.
    - While asking(after constant message subject changes) may serve to
    fill some void, needed attention, or spark conversation...it really
    doesn't serve the general population interest in either Win11 or Win11 alt.comp.os groups).

    fyi...w/r to you listening to speculation and guessing.
    - you've not been around long enough to know my history and posted
    content source is not speculative or guestimation but tribal knowledge, colleagues and friends(private listservers with server and security
    admins collectively managing hundreds of thousand of devices, Microsoft personnel[current and former]).
    i.e. vet well in advance of replying.

    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E. R.@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 08:40:10 2026
    On 2026-06-18 06:59, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/17/2026 2:28 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 15:55, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    Better wear a full face-mask and a disposable coat. Abattoirs are as
    dangerous as mortuary in hospitals. The floor is always dirty.


    This place is spotless clean.


    That's strange. A *huamn* aAbattoir?? BANG!! BANG!! :)

    The place I'm talking about makes (as final product) sausages and other
    things sealed in plastic and kept cold, that keeps for a month or more.
    You can not do that if the place is not about as clean as a surgery theatre.


    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E. R.@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 08:43:10 2026
    On 2026-06-18 07:04, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/17/2026 2:30 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 16:26, ....winston wrote:

    A place unlikely for any Windows 11 or 10 devices at 7C/44F or lower.

    I'm sure the place, if modern, is full of electronic controllers and
    computers.



    I still don't see why a mainframe computer cannot have DOS, OS/2,
    Windows and Linux machines. Can I talk to your commander? :)

    They simply don't. They may use PCs to connect to the mainframe while
    sitting in the office, though.

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 17:49:28 2026
    On 6/18/2026 2:40 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-18 06:59, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    That's strange. A *huamn* aAbattoir?? BANG!! BANG!! :)

    The place I'm talking about makes (as final product) sausages and other things sealed in plastic and kept cold, that keeps for a month or more.
    You can not do that if the place is not about as clean as a surgery theatre.
    Why didn't you say "sausage factory"? BANG!! :)

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 17:50:33 2026

    You were merely showing off your authority. Who is your commander? BANG!!!:)

    On 6/18/2026 2:04 PM, ....winston wrote:

    Lol..I passed along your 'rather talk to IBM suits' comment on this
    topic to a few of those admins..they all had pretty much the same type
    of response. Here's 3 of the PG responses
    - "Barking up the wrong pantlegs'
    - "Askhole approach"
    - "Try changing the meds"

    Your continued quest on mainframes - 3270, having DOS, Windows, Linux is
    the essence of novelty..asking for something or about something no one
    needs.
    - While asking(after constant message subject changes) may serve to
    fill some void, needed attention, or spark conversation...it really
    doesn't serve the general population interest in either Win11 or Win11 alt.comp.os groups).

    fyi...w/r to you listening to speculation and guessing.
    - you've not been around long enough to know my history and posted
    content source is not speculative or guestimation but tribal knowledge, colleagues and friends(private listservers with server and security
    admins collectively managing hundreds of thousand of devices, Microsoft personnel[current and former]).
    i.e. vet well in advance of replying.



    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 17:51:08 2026
    On 6/18/2026 2:43 PM ....

    I still don't see why a mainframe computer cannot have DOS, OS/2,
    Windows and Linux machines. Can I talk to your commander? :)

    They simply don't. They may use PCs to connect to the mainframe while
    sitting in the office, though.


    Answer not accepted. BANG!!

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E. R.@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 14:20:02 2026
    On 2026-06-18 11:49, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/18/2026 2:40 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-18 06:59, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    That's strange. A *huamn* aAbattoir?? BANG!! BANG!! :)

    The place I'm talking about makes (as final product) sausages and other
    things sealed in plastic and kept cold, that keeps for a month or more.
    You can not do that if the place is not about as clean as a surgery
    theatre.
    Why didn't you say "sausage factory"? BANG!! :)


    Because it is an abattoir. They do the entire thing, from killing the
    pigs to producing the sausages.

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E. R.@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 14:21:35 2026
    On 2026-06-18 14:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-18 11:49, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/18/2026 2:40 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-18 06:59, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    That's strange. A *huamn* aAbattoir?? BANG!! BANG!! :)

    The place I'm talking about makes (as final product) sausages and other
    things sealed in plastic and kept cold, that keeps for a month or more.
    You can not do that if the place is not about as clean as a surgery
    theatre.
    Why didn't you say "sausage factory"? BANG!! :)


    Because it is an abattoir. They do the entire thing, from killing the
    pigs to producing the sausages.


    And the point, anyway, is that it is a colder place than any computer or server room. Harder on the staff.

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lars Poulsen@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 06:48:51 2026
    On 2026-06-16 20:19, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/17/2026 8:05 AM, ....winston wrote:

    Few Windows 11 or 10 devices are present on mainframe servers(an
    unlikely place for Windows 11/10 devices). Windows 11/10 devices are
    external to mainframe environment and acting as endpoint for mainframe
    management.

    Why not place some Windows machines inside a computer room if they can
    run terminal emulation? I think operator consoles of IBM mainframes are still 3270????

    Enterprise admins are not jumping through hoops to use 3270 emulation.

    Which is strange!! There is nothing wrong about 3270, VT-100 and ANSI.
    To secure these old protocols, just box or wrap them with a security shield???

    BTW, IBM mainframes (and AS/400 possibly) have communication controllers with security built-in.

    Those 3270 emulators are becoming dinosaurs, less secure in protecting
    business or risk.ÿ For some time, the two-tier web-based ....

    What made modern LAN and Wifi adapters/USB dongles more secured?ÿ :)

    I have not been hands-on close to IBM mainframes since the OS was called
    MVT, but I am pretty sure that real 3279's are long gone, except in the incarnation of tn3270 (3270 over telnet). And I suspect the console
    complex is a PC "service processor". I wonder if it runs OS/2?

    --
    Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 21:56:04 2026
    On 6/18/2026 8:21 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-18 14:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-18 11:49, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/18/2026 2:40 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-18 06:59, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    That's strange. A *huamn* aAbattoir?? BANG!! BANG!! :)

    The place I'm talking about makes (as final product) sausages and other >>>> things sealed in plastic and kept cold, that keeps for a month or more. >>>> You can not do that if the place is not about as clean as a surgery
    theatre.
    Why didn't you say "sausage factory"? BANG!! :)


    Because it is an abattoir. They do the entire thing, from killing the
    pigs to producing the sausages.


    And the point, anyway, is that it is a colder place than any computer or server room. Harder on the staff.


    Understood. I didn't comprehend "7C/44F" as temperature readings but
    something else.

    BANG!! (shot a colorful fly!) :)

    Screwworm Is Rising In Texas?How It Could Impact America?s Beef <https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryroeloffs/2026/06/16/screwworm-cases-up-to-12-this-should-set-off-alarm-bells/>

    US plans to fight flesh-eating screwworm outbreak with flies and dogs <https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7v9vz1gd76o>

    Cochliomyia hominivorax - Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochliomyia_hominivorax>

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Peter Flass@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 07:58:15 2026
    On 6/18/26 06:48, Lars Poulsen wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 20:19, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/17/2026 8:05 AM, ....winston wrote:

    Few Windows 11 or 10 devices are present on mainframe servers(an
    unlikely place for Windows 11/10 devices). Windows 11/10 devices are
    external to mainframe environment and acting as endpoint for mainframe
    management.

    Why not place some Windows machines inside a computer room if they can
    run terminal emulation? I think operator consoles of IBM mainframes
    are still 3270????

    Enterprise admins are not jumping through hoops to use 3270 emulation.

    Which is strange!! There is nothing wrong about 3270, VT-100 and ANSI.
    To secure these old protocols, just box or wrap them with a security
    shield???

    BTW, IBM mainframes (and AS/400 possibly) have communication
    controllers with security built-in.

    Those 3270 emulators are becoming dinosaurs, less secure in protecting
    business or risk.ÿ For some time, the two-tier web-based ....

    What made modern LAN and Wifi adapters/USB dongles more secured?ÿ :)

    I have not been hands-on close to IBM mainframes since the OS was called MVT, but I am pretty sure that real 3279's are long gone, except in the incarnation of tn3270 (3270 over telnet). And I suspect the console
    complex is a PC "service processor". I wonder if it runs OS/2?


    IBM stopped making terminals some years ago.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Peter Flass@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 08:00:00 2026
    On 6/18/26 07:25, Andy Burns wrote:
    Lars Poulsen wrote:
    I suspect the console complex is a PC "service processor". I wonder if
    it runs OS/2?

    Yes, thinkpad with OS/2 Warp on a z seies

    <https://youtu.be/AptJJsO5qCg&t=343>

    Wow! I didn't realize this was still true. I can see the point in using
    an OS that's 100% under IBM's control, though.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From David Wade@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 16:39:16 2026
    On 18/06/2026 16:00, Peter Flass wrote:
    On 6/18/26 07:25, Andy Burns wrote:
    Lars Poulsen wrote:
    I suspect the console complex is a PC "service processor". I wonder
    if it runs OS/2?

    Yes, thinkpad with OS/2 Warp on a z seies

    <https://youtu.be/AptJJsO5qCg&t=343>

    Wow! I didn't realize this was still true. I can see the point in using
    an OS that's 100% under IBM's control, though.

    This is not still true. From the Z9 onwards its Linux based...

    Dave

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 01:02:57 2026
    On 6/18/2026 9:48 PM, Lars Poulsen wrote:

    I have not been hands-on close to IBM mainframes since the OS was called
    MVT, but I am pretty sure that real 3279's are long gone ...


    I remember the weight of a 3279 graphical terminal when I worked in IBM
    World Trade Asia Corp.! It's really heavy and big! :)

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 01:04:38 2026
    On 6/18/2026 10:58 PM, Peter Flass wrote:

    IBM stopped making terminals some years ago.

    IBM moved its Hong Kong HQ to Japan after my industrial placement. Some
    said it's because of June 4 1989.

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From MikeS@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 21:26:59 2026
    On 18/06/2026 07:40, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-18 06:59, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/17/2026 2:28 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 15:55, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    Better wear a full face-mask and a disposable coat. Abattoirs are as
    dangerous as mortuary in hospitals. The floor is always dirty.


    This place is spotless clean.


    That's strange. A *huamn* aAbattoir?? BANG!! BANG!! :)

    The place I'm talking about makes (as final product) sausages and other things sealed in plastic and kept cold, that keeps for a month or more.
    You can not do that if the place is not about as clean as a surgery
    theatre.


    I doubt its simply cleanliness. That type of food product is usually
    plastic packaged to avoid oxygen, i.e. under vacuum or nitrogen.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E. R.@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 00:26:02 2026
    On 2026-06-18 22:26, MikeS wrote:
    On 18/06/2026 07:40, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-18 06:59, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/17/2026 2:28 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-16 15:55, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    Better wear a full face-mask and a disposable coat. Abattoirs are as >>>>> dangerous as mortuary in hospitals. The floor is always dirty.


    This place is spotless clean.


    That's strange. A *huamn* aAbattoir?? BANG!! BANG!! :)

    The place I'm talking about makes (as final product) sausages and
    other things sealed in plastic and kept cold, that keeps for a month
    or more. You can not do that if the place is not about as clean as a
    surgery theatre.


    I doubt its simply cleanliness. That type of food product is usually
    plastic packaged to avoid oxygen, i.e. under vacuum or nitrogen.

    Yes, of course. And maybe sterilized after sealing.

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 12:12:00 2026
    On 6/19/2026 6:26 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-18 22:26, MikeS wrote:

    I doubt its simply cleanliness. That type of food product is usually
    plastic packaged to avoid oxygen, i.e. under vacuum or nitrogen.

    Yes, of course. And maybe sterilized after sealing.


    A GREAT place to rape+murder someone and dispose of it? :)

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 02:38:43 2026
    On Fri, 6/19/2026 12:12 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/19/2026 6:26 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-06-18 22:26, MikeS wrote:

    I doubt its simply cleanliness. That type of food product is usually
    plastic packaged to avoid oxygen, i.e. under vacuum or nitrogen.

    Yes, of course. And maybe sterilized after sealing.


    A GREAT place to rape+murder someone and dispose of it? :)


    I think you watch too much TV.

    You should be working on your Secure Boot and your BIOS.
    That's what I'm doing right how. My motherboard
    company released yet another BIOS on May 29 2026.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 18:39:19 2026
    On 6/19/2026 2:38 PM, Paul wrote:

    You should be working on your Secure Boot and your BIOS.
    That's what I'm doing right how. My motherboard
    company released yet another BIOS on May 29 2026.
    No. Not interested in them personally and at home. Not sure about
    companies in Hong Kong.

    I have been shying away from jobs for decades. :)

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 18:50:56 2026
    On 6/19/2026 1:02 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/18/2026 9:48 PM, Lars Poulsen wrote:

    I have not been hands-on close to IBM mainframes since the OS was called
    MVT, but I am pretty sure that real 3279's are long gone ...


    I remember the weight of a 3279 graphical terminal when I worked in IBM
    World Trade Asia Corp.! It's really heavy and big! :)


    I also touched many PS/2 computers physically. They are no more now. But
    I like their metal chassis... no glass.

    --

    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Peter Flass@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 07:38:26 2026
    On 6/19/26 02:47, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 19/06/2026 3:04 am, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/18/2026 10:58 PM, Peter Flass wrote:

    IBM stopped making terminals some years ago.

    IBM moved its Hong Kong HQ to Japan after my industrial placement.
    Some said it's because of June 4 1989.

    I had to Google that Date.

    How quickly we forget .... or is it just that sooooo many 'BAD' things
    are happening that we forget sooo quickly??

    https://www.onthisday.com/date/1989/june/4

    We certainly remember the event, but I had to google the date too.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ....winston@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 13:54:15 2026
    On 06/19/2026 2:38 AM, Paul wrote:

    You should be working on your Secure Boot and your BIOS.
    That's what I'm doing right how. My motherboard
    company released yet another BIOS on May 29 2026.

    Paul

    Open powershell application, type following commads one by one

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI kek).bytes) -match ?Microsoft Corporation KEK 2K CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Windows UEFI CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Microsoft UEFI CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Microsoft option rom UEFI CA 2023?)


    Varied results on 3 different devices and atm not entirely what I expected.
    All devices updated through June 2026 with latest cumulative, WinRE, SSU
    and avaialble 2023 certs.

    Win10 Pro 22H2 ESU (Asus 4th Gen Intel i7-4770 Z87 Sabertooth, 16 GB
    RAM, 1 TB SSD, 4 TB HD)
    True for all items - Windows UEFI CA 2023, Microsof UEFI CA 2023, Option
    Rom UEFI CA 2023, KEK 2K CA 2023.

    Win11 Pro 25H2 (Acer 8th Gen Intel i7-8550, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, 1 TB HD) True for Windows UEFI CA 2023, Microsof UEFI CA 2023, Option Rom UEFI CA
    2023; False for KEK 2K CA 2023

    Surface 3 Win10 Pro 22H2 ESU (Intel Atom x7-Z8700, Quad-Core SoC Cherry
    Trail, 4 GB RAM, 128 GB M.2 SSD, 128 GB SDXC)
    True for - Windows UEFI CA 2023, Microsoft option rom UEFI CA 2023,
    Microsoft Corporation KEK 2K CA 2023; False for Microsoft UEFI CA 2023

    The KEK was 'True' for both Surface and Asus Win10 Pro 22H2 ESU
    - the KEK as True for the Win10 Pro ESU on the Surface was the
    unexpected result (2015 era device)
    - the KEK as False for Win11 Pro on the Acer was interesting because
    it was released 2 yrs later(2017) than the Surface 3(2015) and 4 yrs
    later than the ASUS(2013)


    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 21:47:41 2026
    On 2026/6/19 18:54:15, ....winston wrote:
    On 06/19/2026 2:38 AM, Paul wrote:

    You should be working on your Secure Boot and your BIOS.
    That's what I'm doing right how. My motherboard
    company released yet another BIOS on May 29 2026.

    Paul

    Open powershell application, type following commads one by one

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI kek).bytes) -match ?Microsoft Corporation KEK 2K CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes) -match ?Windows UEFI CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes) -match ?Microsoft UEFI CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes) -match ?Microsoft option rom UEFI CA 2023?)
    []
    Once I'd run powershell with admin. privileges, and ensured the commands (including the "-match ...") part were all on one line, I got

    True
    True
    True
    True

    Is that good, bad, or indifferent? (Windows 10-64 22H2 19045.7417)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    I used to dream of the day when linux was as stable as windows. Never
    did I imagine that parity would be achieved by windows declining into
    the chaos that engulfs and stifles linux.
    - mike <ham789@netzero.net> in alt.windows7.general, 2018-4-1

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Hank Rogers@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 16:51:41 2026
    J. P. Gilliver wrote on 6/19/2026 3:47 PM:
    On 2026/6/19 18:54:15, ....winston wrote:
    On 06/19/2026 2:38 AM, Paul wrote:

    You should be working on your Secure Boot and your BIOS.
    That's what I'm doing right how. My motherboard
    company released yet another BIOS on May 29 2026.

    Paul

    Open powershell application, type following commads one by one

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI kek).bytes)
    -match ?Microsoft Corporation KEK 2K CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Windows UEFI CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Microsoft UEFI CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Microsoft option rom UEFI CA 2023?)
    []
    Once I'd run powershell with admin. privileges, and ensured the commands (including the "-match ...") part were all on one line, I got

    True
    True
    True
    True

    Is that good, bad, or indifferent? (Windows 10-64 22H2 19045.7417)


    Isn't that a pretty OLD version of windows?

    It's so old that a lot of your concerns don't even make sense.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 22:14:50 2026
    On Fri, 6/19/2026 5:51 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
    J. P. Gilliver wrote on 6/19/2026 3:47 PM:
    On 2026/6/19 18:54:15, ....winston wrote:
    On 06/19/2026 2:38 AM, Paul wrote:

    You should be working on your Secure Boot and your BIOS.
    That's what I'm doing right how. My motherboard
    company released yet another BIOS on May 29 2026.

    ÿÿÿÿ Paul

    Open powershell application, type following commads one by one

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI kek).bytes) >>> -match ?Microsoft Corporation KEK 2K CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Windows UEFI CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Microsoft UEFI CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Microsoft option rom UEFI CA 2023?)
    []
    Once I'd run powershell with admin. privileges, and ensured the commands
    (including the "-match ...") part were all on one line, I got

    True
    True
    True
    True

    Is that good, bad, or indifferent? (Windows 10-64 22H2 19045.7417)


    Isn't that a pretty OLD version of windows?

    It's so old that a lot of your concerns don't even make sense.

    If it's an old OS, you're fixing it up enough so that it
    does not stop booting (only if running with Secure Boot enabled).

    It's not an old OS if the ESU is enabled, as it is getting security updates until the end of the year.

    The machine I was cleaning up is a gutless spare computer (22 watts). You can install
    OSes on it, without using Rufus. One of its problems, is the iGPU in it
    doesn't drive the LCD monitor properly at BIOS level, so the machine
    sits in the corner waiting for a "Bargain GPU". Once the OS driver loads,
    the screen works. The computer case will not accept two-slot or wider video cards (unless I do some metalwork on it).

    The RAM in the machine is worth keeping, so I could replace the other
    bits with something more power-hungry. It's got some DDR4 from when RAM
    was (relatively) cheap.

    Paul



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ....winston@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jun 20 05:44:05 2026
    On 06/19/2026 5:51 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
    J. P. Gilliver wrote on 6/19/2026 3:47 PM:
    On 2026/6/19 18:54:15, ....winston wrote:
    On 06/19/2026 2:38 AM, Paul wrote:

    You should be working on your Secure Boot and your BIOS.
    That's what I'm doing right how. My motherboard
    company released yet another BIOS on May 29 2026.

    ÿÿÿÿ Paul

    Open powershell application, type following commads one by one

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI kek).bytes) >>> -match ?Microsoft Corporation KEK 2K CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Windows UEFI CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Microsoft UEFI CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Microsoft option rom UEFI CA 2023?)
    []
    Once I'd run powershell with admin. privileges, and ensured the commands
    (including the "-match ...") part were all on one line, I got

    True
    True
    True
    True

    Is that good, bad, or indifferent? (Windows 10-64 22H2 19045.7417)


    Isn't that a pretty OLD version of windows?

    It's so old that a lot of your concerns don't even make sense.



    Windows 10 22H2 19045.7417
    => latest version/build released on June 9, 2026 when enrolled in ESU (Window 10 22H2 Extended Security Updates)


    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ....winston@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jun 20 05:50:04 2026
    On 06/19/2026 4:47 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/6/19 18:54:15, ....winston wrote:
    On 06/19/2026 2:38 AM, Paul wrote:

    You should be working on your Secure Boot and your BIOS.
    That's what I'm doing right how. My motherboard
    company released yet another BIOS on May 29 2026.

    Paul

    Open powershell application, type following commads one by one

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI kek).bytes)
    -match ?Microsoft Corporation KEK 2K CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Windows UEFI CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Microsoft UEFI CA 2023?)

    ([System.Text.Encoding]::ASCII.GetString((Get-SecureBootUEFI db).bytes)
    -match ?Microsoft option rom UEFI CA 2023?)
    []
    Once I'd run powershell with admin. privileges, and ensured the commands (including the "-match ...") part were all on one line, I got

    True
    True
    True
    True

    Is that good, bad, or indifferent? (Windows 10-64 22H2 19045.7417)

    About as good as its going to be.

    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mister Johnson@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jun 20 11:51:00 2026
    ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.folklore.computers.]
    On 2026-06-19, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 19/06/2026 3:04 am, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 6/18/2026 10:58 PM, Peter Flass wrote:

    IBM stopped making terminals some years ago.

    IBM moved its Hong Kong HQ to Japan after my industrial placement. Some
    said it's because of June 4 1989.

    I had to Google that Date.

    How quickly we forget .... or is it just that sooooo many 'BAD' things
    are happening that we forget sooo quickly??

    https://www.onthisday.com/date/1989/june/4

    8964 : Chinese dissident code

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)