<https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2025/06/24/stay-secure-with-windows-11-copilot-pcs-and-windows-365-before-support-ends-for-windows-10>[]
automatically be enrolled. ESU coverage for personal devices runs from[]
Oct. 15, 2025, through Oct. 12, 2027. Starting today, the enrollment
Editor?s note ? June 25, 2026 ? This post has been updated to reflect
that the Windows 10 Extended Security Updates (ESU) program for personal
use devices is being provided for an additional year, with coverage now available through Oct. 12, 2027. This extension provides customers with
more time to transition to a new Windows 11 PC while continuing to
receive critical security updates.
</qp>
winston wrote:
[]
<https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2025/06/24/stay-secure-with-windows-11-copilot-pcs-and-windows-365-before-support-ends-for-windows-10>
automatically be enrolled. ESU coverage for personal devices runs from[]
Oct. 15, 2025, through Oct. 12, 2027. Starting today, the enrollment
Editor?s note ? June 25, 2026 ? This post has been updated to reflectI _thought_ it sounded familiar from some months ago.
that the Windows 10 Extended Security Updates (ESU) program for personal
use devices is being provided for an additional year, with coverage now
available through Oct. 12, 2027. This extension provides customers with
more time to transition to a new Windows 11 PC while continuing to
receive critical security updates.
</qp>
So, basically, it's just being extended for another year. Presumably
those of us who are in it - whether by the github method originally
described here, or just using the enrolment mechanisms made more widely available a little later - don't actually have to _do_ anything to
qualify for the extra year.
And presumably there are no more perils, other than those already
inherent in accepting updates from MS such as the (unlikely) possibility
of them attempting a kill.
Many people are unwilling to replace a computer which is more than
adequately capable enough of doing what they want. However, for a
computer to be unsafe to run on the internet because security updates
are no longer forthcoming is unacceptable.
Add to this the fact that W11 (and presumably newer versions) requires compromises in privacy and continual tweaking to beat it into some kind
of usable condition, and there you have it.
Editor?s note ? June 25, 2026 ? This post has been updated to reflect
that the Windows 10 Extended Security Updates (ESU) program for personal
use devices is being provided for an additional year, with coverage now available through Oct. 12, 2027. This extension provides customers with
more time to transition to a new Windows 11 PC while continuing to
receive critical security updates.
John C. <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]
Many people are unwilling to replace a computer which is more than
adequately capable enough of doing what they want. However, for a
computer to be unsafe to run on the internet because security updates
are no longer forthcoming is unacceptable.
[Linux fairy tale deleted.]
Add to this the fact that W11 (and presumably newer versions) requires
compromises in privacy and continual tweaking to beat it into some kind
of usable condition, and there you have it.
Please don't buy into this FUD and these urban legends.
Yes, Windows 11 most likely requires new *hardware* (type of CPU, TPM, etc.), which can be a major hurdle/burden, but sofar you can still have
a local account and hence no "compromises in privacy". As to "continual tweaking to beat it into some kind of usable condition": The only thing
which is somewhat different is Settings. One can easily get used to the
Start menu or just install/use Open-Shell Menu, the menu-style which we
know ever since Windows 7.
So by all means keep using what you have/like (Windows 10) as long as possible, but don't bash what you don't know/use.
FYI, I replaced my wife's Windows 10 computer with a Windows 11 one.
Aside from the physical side (which she doesn't even see), she can't
tell the difference. And for me, as her 'administrator', there's hardly
any difference as well.
[...]
On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 15:08:01 -0400, ....winston wrote:
Editor?s note ? June 25, 2026 ? This post has been updated to reflect
that the Windows 10 Extended Security Updates (ESU) program for personal
use devices is being provided for an additional year, with coverage now
available through Oct. 12, 2027. This extension provides customers with
more time to transition to a new Windows 11 PC while continuing to
receive critical security updates.
I didn't think that would happen. We (some volunteers and me) were
already planning a Linux Repair Caf‚ to help people switch from W10 to
Linux Mint, so they could keep using their (older) hardware. It can
still happen of course, but it gives us some extra time.
John C. wrote:
[...]
Many people are unwilling to replace a computer which is more than
adequately capable enough of doing what they want. However, for a
computer to be unsafe to run on the internet because security updates
are no longer forthcoming is unacceptable.
[Linux fairy tale deleted.]
This reality is driving
people to move over to (sorry Pooh) Linux, which is still being
supported and which can easily turn an old computer into something that
isn't as bogged down with legacy OS code and related issues.
Add to this the fact that W11 (and presumably newer versions) requires
compromises in privacy and continual tweaking to beat it into some kind
of usable condition, and there you have it.
M$ developers have completely lost touch with the fact that not
everybody out there is a technophile, and simply want to be able to use
a computer without all the nonsense involved with major paradigm shifts
and enshittification.>> >> Add to this the fact that W11 (and presumably newer versions) requires
compromises in privacy and continual tweaking to beat it into some kind
of usable condition, and there you have it.
Please don't buy into this FUD and these urban legends.
Yes, Windows 11 most likely requires new *hardware* (type of CPU, TPM, etc.), which can be a major hurdle/burden, but sofar you can still have
a local account
and hence no "compromises in privacy".
As to "continual
tweaking to beat it into some kind of usable condition": The only thing
which is somewhat different is Settings. One can easily get used to the
Start menu or just install/use Open-Shell Menu, the menu-style which we
know ever since Windows 7.
So by all means keep using what you have/like (Windows 10) as long as possible, but don't bash what you don't know/use.
FYI, I replaced my wife's Windows 10 computer with a Windows 11 one.
Aside from the physical side (which she doesn't even see), she can't
tell the difference. And for me, as her 'administrator', there's hardly
any difference as well.
[...]
As long as you're not installing Ubuntu, you'll be OK :-)
Ubuntu crossed a couple red lines here in the computer room,
so it's on strict limits. It is way way too pushy when it comes
to db/dbx stuff. I'm talking about doing stuff behind your back,
and not giving useful information about what has been messed with.
A Zorin Free or a Linux Mint should be fine.
Not a Fedora, as the clicking will drive you nuts (Gnome and/or Gnome Devs).
I think it would be faster for Hanselman to put a copy of Linux into
a Windows 10 Update, and just install Linux side by side that way :-)
Think of the force multiplier effect, the steps saved. Why, the Linux
Repair Cafe work would be cut in half, if all the machines came in
with the Linux partition already there. Then you could boot back
and forth, and see if you like it or not.
Frank Slootweg wrote:
John C. wrote:
[...]
Many people are unwilling to replace a computer which is more than
adequately capable enough of doing what they want. However, for a
computer to be unsafe to run on the internet because security updates
are no longer forthcoming is unacceptable.
[Linux fairy tale deleted.]
...and reinserted here:
This reality is driving
people to move over to (sorry Pooh) Linux, which is still being
supported and which can easily turn an old computer into something that
isn't as bogged down with legacy OS code and related issues.
If you're going to deny this, then I'm outright going to call you a liar.
Add to this the fact that W11 (and presumably newer versions) requires
compromises in privacy and continual tweaking to beat it into some kind
of usable condition, and there you have it.
Ditto here.
M$ developers have completely lost touch with the fact that not
everybody out there is a technophile, and simply want to be able to use
a computer without all the nonsense involved with major paradigm shifts
and enshittification.>> >> Add to this the fact that W11 (and presumably newer versions) requires
compromises in privacy and continual tweaking to beat it into some kind
of usable condition, and there you have it.
Please don't buy into this FUD and these urban legends.
Calling what I say "Fear Uncertainty and Doubt" and "urban legends" is something that YOU would have to prove. Not me.
Yes, Windows 11 most likely requires new *hardware* (type of CPU, TPM, etc.), which can be a major hurdle/burden, but sofar you can still have
a local account
Right, it probably is possible, but M$ makes doing so as difficult as possible.
and hence no "compromises in privacy".
Perhaps you might want to take M$ at its word that they aren't spying
on you, but I, for one, refuse to do so.
As to "continual
tweaking to beat it into some kind of usable condition": The only thing which is somewhat different is Settings. One can easily get used to the Start menu or just install/use Open-Shell Menu, the menu-style which we know ever since Windows 7.
Yes, I know all about that. And the Start Menu has has been a complete abomination ever since Vista.
So by all means keep using what you have/like (Windows 10) as long as possible, but don't bash what you don't know/use.
You don't tell me what to do! And don't presume that you know what *I*
know and don't know.
FYI, I replaced my wife's Windows 10 computer with a Windows 11 one. Aside from the physical side (which she doesn't even see), she can't
tell the difference. And for me, as her 'administrator', there's hardly
any difference as well.
[...]
YMMV, so might mine.
Over and out.
John C. wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
John C. wrote:
[...]
Many people are unwilling to replace a computer which is more than
adequately capable enough of doing what they want. However, for a
computer to be unsafe to run on the internet because security updates
are no longer forthcoming is unacceptable.
[Linux fairy tale deleted.]
...and reinserted here:
This reality is driving
people to move over to (sorry Pooh) Linux, which is still being
supported and which can easily turn an old computer into something that >>>> isn't as bogged down with legacy OS code and related issues.
If you're going to deny this, then I'm outright going to call you a liar.
What I'm 'denying' is your implication that Linux is any kind of
substitute for Windows. It isn't, as it doesn't run our software. Yes, a browser and an email program might be compatible, but that's about it.
(And before you bother to deny that: I'm a 40++++ year Unix/UNIX
veteran.)
Add to this the fact that W11 (and presumably newer versions) requires >>>> compromises in privacy and continual tweaking to beat it into some kind >>>> of usable condition, and there you have it.
Ditto here.
M$ developers have completely lost touch with the fact that not
everybody out there is a technophile, and simply want to be able to use >>>> a computer without all the nonsense involved with major paradigm shifts >>>> and enshittification.>> >> Add to this the fact that W11 (and presumably newer versions) requires
compromises in privacy and continual tweaking to beat it into some kind >>>> of usable condition, and there you have it.
Please don't buy into this FUD and these urban legends.
Calling what I say "Fear Uncertainty and Doubt" and "urban legends" is
something that YOU would have to prove. Not me.
I don't have to prove anything as one can't prove a negative, Logic
101.
Your qualifications are FUD/urban_legends, not fact, not data, not
specifics.
If you have (a) *specific* beef(s) about Windows 11, we're all ears.
Otherwise, it's just meaningless, uninformed, ranting/bashing.
Yes, Windows 11 most likely requires new *hardware* (type of CPU, TPM, >>> etc.), which can be a major hurdle/burden, but sofar you can still have
a local account
Right, it probably is possible, but M$ makes doing so as difficult as
possible.
Yes, that's the current situation for Home: Annoying, but not
impossible (I've done so on 8.1, 10 and now 11). Solution, spend a few
bucks on Pro and no problem. BTW, some Microsoft hot shot has publicly
stated that he wants this silliness to be undone.
and hence no "compromises in privacy".
Perhaps you might want to take M$ at its word that they aren't spying
on you, but I, for one, refuse to do so.
I don't take Microsoft's word for it. With a local account, they
cannot 'spy', because there is no information/data to 'spy' on.
Actually, my 'problem' is the complete opposite: Because I have no Microsoft account, Microsoft doesn't tell me anything, not even what is
in a new monthly (Windows Update) update. Of course they *could* put a
'Learn more' link into Windows Update, but they don't.
As to "continual
tweaking to beat it into some kind of usable condition": The only thing
which is somewhat different is Settings. One can easily get used to the
Start menu or just install/use Open-Shell Menu, the menu-style which we
know ever since Windows 7.
Yes, I know all about that. And the Start Menu has has been a complete
abomination ever since Vista.
So also in Windows 10. So why whinge about it for Windows 11?
So by all means keep using what you have/like (Windows 10) as long as
possible, but don't bash what you don't know/use.
You don't tell me what to do! And don't presume that you know what *I*
know and don't know.
I go by what you post, that clearly
shows that you do not know much about Windows 11 and do not use it.
FYI, I replaced my wife's Windows 10 computer with a Windows 11 one.
Aside from the physical side (which she doesn't even see), she can't
tell the difference. And for me, as her 'administrator', there's hardly
any difference as well.
[...]
YMMV, so might mine.
Over and out.
Regardless, according to the Gemini AI, people dislike Windows 11
largely because of forced cloud and AI integration, strict hardware restrictions that made millions of older PCs obsolete, and reduced customization options. Many users feel Microsoft prioritizes pushing its
own services (like Edge and OneDrive) over user choice. Then there are
the following sore points:
Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
John C. wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
John C. wrote:
This reality is driving
people to move over to (sorry Pooh) Linux, which is still being
supported and which can easily turn an old computer into something that >>>> isn't as bogged down with legacy OS code and related issues.
If you're going to deny this, then I'm outright going to call you a liar.
What I'm 'denying' is your implication that Linux is any kind of substitute for Windows. It isn't, as it doesn't run our software. Yes, a browser and an email program might be compatible, but that's about it.
(And before you bother to deny that: I'm a 40++++ year Unix/UNIX
veteran.)
As a functional OS, it is fine. Yes, admittedly the availability of
software is limited, but Wine might allow some Windows programs to work
in Linux:
Your qualifications are FUD/urban_legends, not fact, not data, not specifics.
I could also say the same about you, as you whore for Microsoft.
Otherwise, it's just meaningless, uninformed, ranting/bashing.
OTOH, your comments are simply promotions for Microsoft without any
evidence to support them.
So by all means keep using what you have/like (Windows 10) as long as >>> possible, but don't bash what you don't know/use.
Again, I will say and do whatever I like. Nobody will tell me otherwise.
No, I don't use it. I only know why it sucks by reading all the tech
website articles that elaborate on the topic.
Regardless, according to the Gemini AI, people dislike Windows 11
largely because of forced cloud and AI integration, strict hardware restrictions that made millions of older PCs obsolete, and reduced customization options. Many users feel Microsoft prioritizes pushing its
own services (like Edge and OneDrive) over user choice. Then there are
the following sore points:
- Microsoft mandated TPM 2.0, shutting out millions of perfectly
functional older computers. This forced many users to either buy new
hardware or use unofficial workarounds.
- Setting up Windows 11 without an internet connection or a Microsoft
account is incredibly difficult, which frustrates users who prefer
local, offline accounts.
- The taskbar is less flexible (e.g., you cannot move it to the top or
sides of the screen without registry edits). Additionally,
right-clicking files now hides common options behind an extra "Show more options" click.
- The operating system features heavy integration of AI tools (like
Copilot) and has a reputation for being bloated with pre-installed apps
and ads for Microsoft services.
- Persistent background data collection and telemetry remain major
concerns for privacy-focused users.
- OneDrive frequently tries to sync user documents automatically, and
Windows makes it aggressively difficult to change your default web
browser away from Microsoft Edge.
Yes, this list was generated by an AI, but I understand it fully. And
have done so for a long time. It's why I don't update to W11.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQRMTMvD-Dg
- Setting up Windows 11 without an internet connection or a Microsoft
account is incredibly difficult, which frustrates users who prefer
local, offline accounts.
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 07:43:44 -0700, John C. wrote:
- Setting up Windows 11 without an internet connection or a Microsoft
account is incredibly difficult, which frustrates users who prefer
local, offline accounts.
That was not my experience. I'm pretty sure all I had to do was
Google "install Windows 11 without Microsoft account" or similar. I
believe it was as simple as just not having an Internet connection
during install and setup, though it's been a couple of years and I
may be remembering wrong.
But whatever the process was, "incredibly difficult" is quite an
inaccurate description of it.
On Tue, 6/30/2026 5:56 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 07:43:44 -0700, John C. wrote:
- Setting up Windows 11 without an internet connection or a Microsoft
account is incredibly difficult, which frustrates users who prefer
local, offline accounts.
That was not my experience. I'm pretty sure all I had to do was
Google "install Windows 11 without Microsoft account" or similar. I
believe it was as simple as just not having an Internet connection
during install and setup, though it's been a couple of years and I
may be remembering wrong.
But whatever the process was, "incredibly difficult" is quite an
inaccurate description of it.
The process and details change with time.
Eventually, the Rufus approach will "run out of rope".
At some point, a portion of your DVD collection, may refuse to boot.
(Depends on BIOS settings.) I have had one complaint about the
signing of winload (in the system32 of the installer DVD), but I
don't know if I can bring that back on demand. Again, BIOS settings.
The only other time that happened, was a Windows Insider disc
where they had purposely put a very short validity time on winload
on purpose.
Rufus currently has more tick boxes than it used to have,
for controlling the installation process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rufus_%28software%29
See the "second dialog" under the word "Features" for more details.
On an "average day", I only tick one of the items. But given
the nature of the beast, the one at the bottom might be worth a tick.
I've had encryption kick off on a couple installs, which I then
promptly disabled.
I would not class it as "incredibly difficult", but installing
Windows 11 does have a few curve balls, depending on whether the
day ends in "y" or not.
Paul
That was not my experience. I'm pretty sure all I had to do was
Google "install Windows 11 without Microsoft account" or similar.
On 30/06/2026 22:56, Stan Brown wrote:
That was not my experience. I'm pretty sure all I had to do was
Google "install Windows 11 without Microsoft account" or similar.
Probably this won't be necessary because Windows 11 26H2 "MIGHT" allow installation without Microsoft Account. That is what I understood from
Scott Hanselman's twit sometime ago. I can't find the twit; perhaps it
is removed.
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 07:43:44 -0700, John C. wrote:
- Setting up Windows 11 without an internet connection or a Microsoft account is incredibly difficult, which frustrates users who prefer
local, offline accounts.
That was not my experience. I'm pretty sure all I had to do was
Google "install Windows 11 without Microsoft account" or similar. I
believe it was as simple as just not having an Internet connection
during install and setup, though it's been a couple of years and I
may be remembering wrong.
But whatever the process was, "incredibly difficult" is quite an
inaccurate description of it.
Stan Brown <someone@example.com> wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2026 07:43:44 -0700, John C. wrote:
- Setting up Windows 11 without an internet connection or a Microsoft
account is incredibly difficult, which frustrates users who prefer
local, offline accounts.
That was not my experience. I'm pretty sure all I had to do was
Google "install Windows 11 without Microsoft account" or similar. I
believe it was as simple as just not having an Internet connection
during install and setup, though it's been a couple of years and I
may be remembering wrong.
But whatever the process was, "incredibly difficult" is quite an
inaccurate description of it.
Exactly. Your suggested Google search still shows the current
workarounds. *None* of them are "incredibly difficult".
And, if one does not want to use 'unofficial' methods, one can always install Windows 11 by using a (throwaway) Microsoft Account and after installation convert the account on your computer to a local account.
| Sysop: | Tetrazocine |
|---|---|
| Location: | Melbourne, VIC, Australia |
| Users: | 12 |
| Nodes: | 8 (0 / 8) |
| Uptime: | 129:57:15 |
| Calls: | 220 |
| Files: | 21,513 |
| Messages: | 83,383 |