• Re: PSA: How to add WSL grep to the Windwos command-line PATH

    From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 07:13:10 2026
    On Thu, 27 Aug 2026 00:05:41 -0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

    Since this simple method should work for many common Linux
    commands...

    How many of these do you have to write before it becomes simpler just
    to run a Linux system?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From R.Wieser@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 10:02:34 2026
    Lawrence,

    Since this simple method should work for many common Linux
    commands...

    How many of these do you have to write before it becomes simpler just
    to run a Linux system?

    Besides that he just ignores that for his method to work we first need to install gvim ?...

    The OP is *very good* at finding "solutions", but rather bad at checking if
    it will work anywhere outside his own "it works here" situation (read:
    seldom any error-checking etc).

    Ofcourse, on Windows the batch-interpreter also supports equates like that - iow, no need for gvim. :-)

    As for the value of his PSA ? Next-to-none. A quick "how to run wsl grep from the commandline" websearch turned up this (second result) :

    https://www.commandlinewizardry.com/post/running-linux-commands-within-windows-using-wsl

    , which pretty-much states the obvious : just use "wsl grep"(.cmd) instead
    of just "grep"(.cmd)


    Ofcourse, a bit of editing the registry would work as well (catching the ".cmd" extension like any other "needs to be run by" extensions) , without
    the need to write an equate for each of those WSL commands.

    Oh well.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 04:36:33 2026
    On Wed, 8/26/2026 10:08 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    PSA: How to add WSL grep to the Windows command-line PATH

    This is an Android:Windows cross-platform problem that I run into every
    day because most adb examples we find on the net use grep (not findstr).

    It's a PITA to constantly convert adb examples using grep to findstr.

    So this approach below is what I just decided to finally do after getting tired of converting adb|grep examples found on the net to findstr syntax.

    I recognize there are many ways to add "grep" to the Windows path.
    But, since I already had WSL installed for other reasons, it bothered me
    that I couldn't just call the Ubuntu grep from the Windows command line.

    What good is WSL if you can't use it when you need it?

    Hence, I came up with this method of calling the WSL grep from Windows.

    It may be one of the simplest methods to run any WSL Linux tool directly
    from the Windows CMD (or powershell) using a simple wrapper script.

    But I've only tested it just now with just grep (not sed, awk, ls, etc.).

    Unfortunately, WSL Linux binaries aren't normal Windows executables.

    Hence, just adding the WSL Linux binary to Windows PATH
    won't make CMD able to execute it. That would be too easy.

    But this method just now worked perfectly, for me, on Windows 10.

    Here's the sample x-platform adb:android:windows command we want to run.
    adb shell pm list packages | grep -i gsf
    'grep' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
    operable program or batch file.

    Of course, we've all used CYGWIN and other UNIX binaries in the
    past, but I already have WSL so why not use the grep it came with.

    First, let's prove WSL 1 is installed and working.
    wsl --list --verbose
    NAME STATE VERSION
    * Ubuntu Stopped 1

    And, let's prove WSL has a working grep too.
    wsl grep --version
    grep (GNU grep) 3.11

    Since it's there, let's add a "grep.cmd" to a file in our path:
    gvim C:\path-to\grep.cmd
    @wsl grep %*

    Then test from anywhere on the command line:
    grep --version
    grep (GNU grep) 3.11

    Let's get back to what we were doing, which was testing GSF:
    adb shell pm list packages | grep -i gsf
    package:com.google.android.gsf

    Voila!

    I haven't tested any of the other WSL Linux commands, but from this simple grep test, I would hope that the others (sed, awk, etc.) should work too.

    Do they?


    Isn't there some Rust version of GREP ? That's assuming the package
    is available right now.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/core-utils/overview

    Of all the various ways to do that, some tools have line ending problems,
    and then a "native" routine becomes a better choice.

    How that starts out (apparently), is it sniffs $0 when you run it
    (its own filename). If it finds "grep.exe" then it knows you want grep.
    If the filename was "sed.exe", it knows you want SED. By using hardlinks,
    you can have executables with the "right names" for the job, and
    then the storage space for the executable is one set of clusters. I have
    one program I wrote for myself that works like that. The filename
    can be "encode.exe" or "decode.exe" and that decides the function.

    Hopefully, for anything line-ending-sensitive, that program will
    do it the Windows way.

    When I compared the gnuwin32 "gawk" to the WSL2 "gawk",
    the gnuwin32 one was Windows endings, the WSL2 one was Linux endings.
    When writing scripts in that language, a couple lines must be
    added to the BEGIN preamble, to compensate for that.

    By running in the Windows environment, you have all your "visible" RAM
    to use. That makes scoping out limitations for a run, a little bit easier.
    It looks like my WSL2 right now, is using half of system memory,
    and the swap file is 25% of that number.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 10:22:52 2026
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 27 Aug 2026 00:05:41 -0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

    Since this simple method should work for many common Linux
    commands...

    How many of these do you have to write before it becomes simpler just
    to run a Linux system?

    And make sure that you can no longer run any of your Windows software? [1]

    But to the point: Don't confuse "Arlen"'s convoluted methods with what
    most others are doing.

    There are many solutions for running Unix/UNIX/GNU commands on
    Windows. Paul mentions one. I'm using another since well over two
    decades (see User-Agent: header) and have been using similar solutions
    since the early MS-DOS days. This is a total non-'problem'.

    [1] This is one of them rhetorical thingies.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 14:44:23 2026
    On Thu, 8/27/2026 12:45 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Paul wrote:
    Isn't there some Rust version of GREP ? That's assuming the package
    is available right now.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/core-utils/overview

    Of all the various ways to do that, some tools have line ending problems,
    and then a "native" routine becomes a better choice.

    How that starts out (apparently), is it sniffs $0 when you run it
    (its own filename). If it finds "grep.exe" then it knows you want grep.
    If the filename was "sed.exe", it knows you want SED. By using hardlinks,
    you can have executables with the "right names" for the job, and
    then the storage space for the executable is one set of clusters. I have
    one program I wrote for myself that works like that. The filename
    can be "encode.exe" or "decode.exe" and that decides the function.

    Hopefully, for anything line-ending-sensitive, that program will
    do it the Windows way.

    When I compared the gnuwin32 "gawk" to the WSL2 "gawk",
    the gnuwin32 one was Windows endings, the WSL2 one was Linux endings.
    When writing scripts in that language, a couple lines must be
    added to the BEGIN preamble, to compensate for that.

    By running in the Windows environment, you have all your "visible" RAM
    to use. That makes scoping out limitations for a run, a little bit easier. >> It looks like my WSL2 right now, is using half of system memory,
    and the swap file is 25% of that number.


    Hi Paul,

    Thanks for bringing up RUST which, um, I had not heard of prior.
    <https://daily.dev/posts/microsoft-ships-native-linux-coreutils-for-windows-built-on-rust-ggfo0izh5>

    The problem for me is most of the suggested adb commands I find on the net tend to use Linux commands to post process raw output, usually in a pipe.
    adb shell top -b -n 1 | head -n 25
    adb shell pm list packages -3 | cut -d: -f2

    adb shell df -h | awk 'NR==1 || /\/data$/ {print $1, $5, $6}'

    adb shell dumpsys battery | grep -E 'status|health|temperature|voltage'
    etc.

    We could run those Linux commands on the Android device, but it's a PITA.
    adb shell 'dumpsys battery | grep level'

    Looking up RUST, so that we all benefit, apparently Microsoft released Coreutils for Windows containing a set of Unix-style command-line tools built on the open-source uutils Rust project but not 'grep' or 'find'.
    *Microsoft Coreutils for Windows: native Linux command-line tools*
    <https://4sysops.com/archives/microsoft-coreutils-for-windows-native-linux-command-line-tools/>

    Apparently these core Linux tools are installed on Windows using winget:
    winget install Microsoft.Coreutils
    Found Coreutils for Windows [Microsoft.Coreutils] Version 2026.6.16
    This application is licensed to you by its owner.
    Microsoft is not responsible for, nor does it grant any licenses to,
    third-party packages.
    Downloading
    https://github.com/microsoft/coreutils/releases/download/v2026.6.16/coreutils-2026.6.16-x64.exe
    100% 4.87 MB / 4.87 MB
    Successfully verified installer hash
    Starting package install...
    The installer will request to run as administrator. Expect a prompt.
    Successfully installed

    Then we need to add coreutils to the Windows path
    setx PATH "%PATH%;C:\Program Files\coreutils"
    SUCCESS: Specified value was saved.

    According to the documents above, these apparently work well:
    cat, cp, ls, mv, rm, pwd, sleep, hostname
    These only partially work according to the documents:
    date, echo, mkdir, rmdir, find
    These apparently don't come with the core utils package:
    dir, more, expand, kill, chmod, chown, chroot, nuhup, tty, who, timeout,
    paste, expand, whoami

    I just realized that Microsoft's Coreutils package doesn't give us
    grep, sed, cut or awk, so we still need additional Linux-like packages.

    Drat.
    Nonetheless, I just installed the coreutils, but I haven't tested it yet.


    The package definitions, you can see them in gnuwin32. This provides
    a "framework" for "existence".

    https://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html

    Coreutils only covers a range of common utilities.
    GREP and Sed are separate packages in that tree.

    Microsoft would have to spin those separately.

    Winget may span more than one repository. As if I do this:

    winget list

    I don't see any Coreutils by doing that.

    *******

    You can see a newer version exists for GREP. And it has
    a different "smell" than a GNUWIN32 one. Version 2.5.4 is
    the decades old GNUWIN32 one. But there is a newer one... if
    you can figure out how to get it or where it is stored.

    https://github.com/microsoft/winget-pkgs/issues/148120

    Paul


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 19:11:17 2026
    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Don't confuse convoluted methods with what most others are doing.

    Hi Frank,

    You're so desperate to insult me that you didn't even read what I wrote.

    There was no insult. Just my opinion - probably shared by many - of
    your methods.

    [...]

    Hence, almost everything you said was factually dead wrong, Frank.

    "almost everything"!? I wrote *one* line.

    When you grow up, you'll learn to read what I had written to understand it.

    Sorry to rain on your parade, but I fully understood what you wrote.
    That's why I said what I said.

    The fact you never could complete high school is telling in your posts.

    Here we go again! That's *not* a "fact", but your continuous lie.
    Heaven knows why you have to lie about such a thing.

    Probably caused by the fact that I - like you claim - also had a high
    level, highly paid, job in Silicon Valley. Pissing contests are SO
    childish.

    [More repetition deleted.]

    You have no desire to help anyone, Frank.

    The thankful responses I get, clearly prove otherwise.

    You're a despicable sadistic wholly unprepossessing ignorant human being.

    Please don't hold back and let it all out. BTW, I think what you just
    wrote was an insult, but I could be wrong.

    In your response, if any, please indicate you read & understood the method.

    Yes, as mentioned above, of course I fully understood your method.

    Otherwise, it's obvious that you only have your own disgusting purposes.

    So that means that we're 'friends' again?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 19:41:57 2026
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 8/27/2026 12:45 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    [...]
    I just realized that Microsoft's Coreutils package doesn't give us
    grep, sed, cut or awk, so we still need additional Linux-like packages.

    Drat.
    Nonetheless, I just installed the coreutils, but I haven't tested it yet.

    The package definitions, you can see them in gnuwin32. This provides
    a "framework" for "existence".

    https://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html

    Coreutils only covers a range of common utilities.
    GREP and Sed are separate packages in that tree.

    I don't know what the fuss is about. The 'Coreutils for Windows' page
    clearly says that it includes grep (and cut, but indeed not sed or awk).

    <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/core-utils/overview>

    <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/core-utils/commands>

    grep is a different part of *uutils* (uutils/grep, not
    uutils/coreutils), but *included* in 'Coreutils for Windows'.

    Anyway, as mentioned, I prefer Cygwin, which is (modular and) more
    complete than both 'Coreutils for Windows' and GnuWin.

    [...]

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From vallor@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 19:59:27 2026
    At Thu, 27 Aug 2026 13:21:47 -0600, Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:

    Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Sorry to rain on your parade, but I fully understood what you
    wrote.

    Hi Frank,

    Given your own personal assessment that you "fully understood" the
    clearly stated problem set and just as clearly stated proposed
    one-line solution, what exactly is your counter proposal as a
    solution to the problem set?

    And how is your proposed solution less "convoluted" than a 1-line
    bridge?

    Why don't you like Cygwin?

    --
    -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 Mem: 258G
    OS: Linux 7.2.1 D: Mint 22.3 DE: Xfce 4.18 (X11)
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090Ti (24G) (610.57.04)
    "Reality seems to be a constant intrusion on my dreams!"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From vallor@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 20:03:47 2026
    At 27 Aug 2026 19:41:57 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
    wrote:

    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 8/27/2026 12:45 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    [...]
    I just realized that Microsoft's Coreutils package doesn't give
    us grep, sed, cut or awk, so we still need additional Linux-like packages.

    Drat. Nonetheless, I just installed the coreutils, but I haven't
    tested it yet.

    The package definitions, you can see them in gnuwin32. This provides
    a "framework" for "existence".

    https://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html

    Coreutils only covers a range of common utilities.
    GREP and Sed are separate packages in that tree.

    I don't know what the fuss is about. The 'Coreutils for Windows'
    page
    clearly says that it includes grep (and cut, but indeed not sed or
    awk).

    <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/core-utils/overview>

    <https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/core-utils/commands>

    grep is a different part of *uutils* (uutils/grep, not
    uutils/coreutils), but *included* in 'Coreutils for Windows'.

    Anyway, as mentioned, I prefer Cygwin, which is (modular and) more
    complete than both 'Coreutils for Windows' and GnuWin.

    [...]

    I'll note here that using the Cygwin grep(1) is a 0-line solution,
    which is superior to running grep in an emulator.

    "Maria" seems to have spent several articles patting himself on
    the back. He could have used the time to install adb in WSL
    and just do everything from Linux, natively.

    HTH. HAND.

    --
    -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 Mem: 258G
    OS: Linux 7.2.1 D: Mint 22.3 DE: Xfce 4.18 (X11)
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090Ti (24G) (610.57.04)
    "Death is natures way of telling you to slow down."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From R.Wieser@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 22:06:01 2026
    Arlen,

    While we've searched for decades to find any useful scripts from you,

    And that is how its supposed to be. I *help*. I normally do not write someones code for them - as you should know by now.

    I realize you've never been particularly reluctant to criticize my kind-hearted scripts

    Don't bullshit us. Your "kind-hearted scripts" are more often convoluted
    and ill thought-out danger-zones than not - as I have mentioned (and
    sometimes also explained) multiple times.

    such as this latest script which I wrote so that
    others can run more easily most of the common WSL commands on Windows.

    You included a script ? Where ?

    I've tried to help you quite a number of times - and between the lines even here - but you always rejected such help.


    And a freebee : have you already checked if that gvim equate method is permanent ? Or does it disappear the moment you close the command-console ?
    I would check that if I where you ...

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 20:09:44 2026
    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Sorry to rain on your parade, but I fully understood what you wrote.

    Hi Frank,

    Given your own personal assessment that you "fully understood" the clearly stated problem set and just as clearly stated proposed one-line solution, what exactly is your counter proposal as a solution to the problem set?

    And how is your proposed solution less "convoluted" than a 1-line bridge?

    As should have been obvious from the attributions, my response was
    to *Lawrence's* comment:

    "How many of these do you have to write before it becomes simpler just
    to run a Linux system?"

    My "proposed solution(s)" to *that* question were given in that same response.

    Given *your* "stated problem" (which I did *not* respond to) and the
    fact that you already have WSL2 with an Ubuntu installation, I can
    understand that you opted for your "1-line bridge".

    But as Lawrence hinted at, as a general solution - i.e. useful to
    others (otherwise why bother with a pompous "PSA"?) - it's convoluted,
    which became clear in your later post where you found yourself missing
    more Unix commands, which would need more "1-line bridge"s.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 20:18:43 2026
    On Thu, 27 Aug 2026 11:53:33 -0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

    But asking "why not use Linux" is absolutely the wrong question to
    ask.

    No, the question is ?why not use it directly?. Because ?use Linux? is
    something you?re already doing, albeit in a convoluted way.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 20:19:55 2026
    On Thu, 27 Aug 2026 12:14:45 -0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

    When I'm working at the Windows command line, I don't want to stop
    and translate every Unix pipeline I encounter into Windows syntax.

    Maybe it would be simpler to work at a Linux/Unix command line, then
    you could skip this translation step.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E. R.@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 22:20:50 2026
    On 2026-08-27 20:39, Maria Sophia wrote:
    If others wonder why I responded to "Frank Slootweg" the way I did, they first need to know he's a common troll who has infested Usenet for decades.

    No, he is not.

    Ignoring the rest of your post.


    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ES??, EU??.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E. R.@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 22:30:35 2026
    On 2026-08-27 19:53, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Thu, 27 Aug 2026 00:05:41 -0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

    Since this simple method should work for many common Linux
    commands...

    How many of these do you have to write before it becomes simpler just
    to run a Linux system?

    Hi Lawrence,

    Rest assured I've used every operating system out there since the 1960s',
    & I have "been there, done that", with dual-boot Linux/Windows long ago.

    The record shows I've solved all sorts of cross-platform problems with a dual-boot Ubuntu (where, for example, it reads iOS files better'n Windows).

    But asking "why not use Linux" is absolutely the wrong question to ask.

    The right question to ask (for the first post of this thread) would be:
    Q1: Why did it take an entire line of code to solve the entire problem?
    A1: If you can solve the problem with less than a line of code, tell me.

    The sheer brilliance of the one-line solution notwithstanding, you actually replied to my second post, which was a script, which I wrote out of the kindness of my heart, to *help others* do what I can do, in a single line!

    So the question to ask in the second post to which you replied, might be:
    Q2: Can't you reduce the solution to less than a single line of code?
    A2: By running that script, it solves the same problem for everyone.

    Given that, please bear in mind that the goal was to efficiently solve the common problem that WSL commands are not Windows binaries in the path.

    The fact I solved *that* problem in a single line of code, is brilliant. Don't you think?

    When one calls oneself brilliant, or doing brilliant solutions, I
    suspect the reverse. It is bad manners to call oneself "brilliant".

    I read your script, and your solution seemed to me obvious, even though
    I don't use Windows.

    Another method would be to archive all batch files in a single zip and
    tell people to install that. You put the zip in a public server and tell people to download that.

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ES??, EU??.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E. R.@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 22:31:18 2026
    On 2026-08-27 22:19, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Thu, 27 Aug 2026 12:14:45 -0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

    When I'm working at the Windows command line, I don't want to stop
    and translate every Unix pipeline I encounter into Windows syntax.

    Maybe it would be simpler to work at a Linux/Unix command line, then
    you could skip this translation step.

    Indeed. Using adb for Linux.

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ES??, EU??.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 28 04:28:35 2026
    On Thu, 27 Aug 2026 19:37:23 -0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

    Thank you Frank for suggesting we look up if grep resides in
    coreutils. Ah. I just tested grep for the first time to see if it's
    in coreutils.

    Woo hoo!
    As Frank noted, grep is there!

    C:\> where grep
    C:\Program Files\coreutils\bin\grep.exe
    C:\Users\username\adb\grep.cmd

    Not in Linux, it?s not:

    ldo@hypatia:~> dpkg-query -S $(type -p grep)
    grep: /usr/bin/grep

    ldo@hypatia:~> dpkg-query -S $(type -p cp)
    coreutils: /usr/bin/cp

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 28 04:59:36 2026
    On Thu, 27 Aug 2026 20:33:13 -0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

    At least in my experience, that implies that a Linux VM can be an
    even worse implementation than Cygwin, but for very different
    reasons.

    Linux VMs are used heavily in mission-critical deployments.

    Your experience might explain why even Microsoft?s cloud is
    predominantly Linux-based rather than Windows-based.

    I have a client running essentially his entire business on this <https://xcp-ng.org/>, with this <https://xen-orchestra.com/> as the
    GUI front-end.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Herbert Kleebauer@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 28 12:13:54 2026
    On 8/28/2026 3:18 AM, Maria Sophia wrote:

    All this thread does is suggest a brilliant way to bridge that gap.
    Using a single line file, called "grep.cmd" containing @wsl grep %*

    I came up with that solution on my own, but if others know of an even
    easier, even simpler solution than that one-line file, let us all know!

    I don't use WSL nor doskey, but doesn't a simple

    doskey grep=wsl grep

    what you want? No need for a batch file and maybe problems
    with poisoned characters (%^...) in %*. And you can automatically
    load the doskey commands at startup of CMD.EXE.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From R.Wieser@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 28 14:35:04 2026
    Arlen,

    [re-inserted from my previous post]
    such as this latest script which I wrote so that others
    can run more easily most of the common WSL commands on Windows.
    [end re-insert]

    You included a script ? Where ?

    Here...
    [snip]

    Ah yes. Not quoting what I replied to, and than trying to make it sound as
    if my response/question was about something else altogether.

    Not at all obvious ofcourse. no sir, not at all ! :-D

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Herbert Kleebauer@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 28 18:24:35 2026
    On 8/28/2026 5:51 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Herbert Kleebauer wrote:

    For example, we have to arrange for the macro to be installed in each CMD session, which isn't difficult to do, but the @wsl method is in the path.
    If you want to use grep within a batch, you can also write the
    doskey command at the top of the batch file and in the batch
    itself you use the normal grep command. This way only wsl has
    to be installed, no need to also copy batch files to a new PC.

    But your grep.cmd solution would only work within a batch if
    you write:

    call grep

    but then it would be easier (I think, you like to type a character less)
    to just write:

    wsl grep





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Herbert Kleebauer@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 28 19:36:30 2026
    On 8/28/2026 7:13 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:

    The goal of this PSA is to bridge Windows with Linux so that common
    adb examples found on the Internet can be pasted, verbatim, into the CLI.

    I think, the correct solution is, to install Linux in a virtual
    machine. On your next PC install Linux as main OS and Windows in
    a virtual machine. And then, in any further PC, you only need Linux.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 28 18:07:57 2026
    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    If others wonder why I responded to "Frank Slootweg" the way I did, they first need to know he's a common troll who has infested Usenet for decades.

    I hope you like the pie and egg.

    [...]

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 28 18:25:17 2026
    Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> wrote:
    On 8/28/2026 7:13 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:

    The goal of this PSA is to bridge Windows with Linux so that common
    adb examples found on the Internet can be pasted, verbatim, into the CLI.

    I think, the correct solution is, to install Linux in a virtual
    machine. On your next PC install Linux as main OS and Windows in
    a virtual machine. And then, in any further PC, you only need Linux.

    He mentioned WSL and Ubuntu, so (AFAICT) he already has "Linux in a
    virtual machine".

    Whether or not he wants/needs the subsequent steps you describe, is
    another matter. AFAICT/AFAIK, he needs/uses Windows more than Linux.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 28 15:37:16 2026
    On Fri, 8/28/2026 12:25 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Maria Sophia wrote:
    Then we need to add coreutils to the Windows path
    setx PATH "%PATH%;C:\Program Files\coreutils"
    SUCCESS: Specified value was saved.

    WARNING!

    Drat. That was a mistake!
    C:\> echo %PATH%
    Reports coreutils, then stuff, the same stuff, and coreutils again

    That setx method was the wrong method, but worse, it wasn't even needed!

    Since the purpose of this thread is to be a public service announcement to help others run Linux commands like "grep" on the CLI, notethat the setx above duplicated the path, and worse, the winget of coreutils added the coreutils to the BEGINNING of the path, so, the end result was:
    a. CoreUtils was in the beginning of the path
    b. Then the old path was duplicated
    c. And CoreUtils was added to the end of the path

    So, the main advice here is to know that CoreUtils takes care of the path.

    What comes now in this article is simply how to fix it if you did it.
    1. Back up the path
    reg export HKCU\Environment "%USERPROFILE%\path-backup.reg" /y

    2. De-duplicate the user path but still preserve the original order
    powershell -NoProfile -Command "$u=[Environment]::GetEnvironmentVariable('Path','User') -split ';' | ? {$_}; $m=[Environment]::GetEnvironmentVariable('Path','Machine') -split ';' | ? {$_}; $u=$u | ? {$_ -notin $m} | Select-Object -Unique; [Environment]::SetEnvironmentVariable('Path',($u -join ';'),'User')"

    3. Remove the coreutils that was added at the end of the path
    powershell -NoProfile -Command "$p=[Environment]::GetEnvironmentVariable('Path','User') -split ';' | ? { $_ -and $_ -ne 'C:\Program Files\coreutils' }; [Environment]::SetEnvironmentVariable('Path',($p -join ';'),'User')"

    4. Check the path
    echo %PATH%

    In summary, when you install the Microsoft CoreUtils, it appends the coreutils to the path for you so you don't have to do it yourself.


    There are also things which can be loaded, which are not in the path.
    Having a path fixation, is not entirely an answer. The Metro.App could
    quite well have a couple designated storage areas. And there could be
    registry recording of "viable" executables. The permissions on Metro.App storage, do not allow easy examination, but you can use nfi.exe to list
    stuff like that. Some things that execute on Windows, are being located
    via registry location storage.

    For a lot of people, the contents of their PATH will be a puzzle for them,
    as it's not an area people look at much any more. And since there are
    so many install methods, you really cannot be sure that a given installer
    does the right things for the job. A WinGet of a GREP package, the gnuwin32 one,
    does that work ? You'd have to test whether the installation process
    even proceeded in a logical manner. It's different when you know a developer provided an installer for the job of doing that.

    Curation of facilities on Windows has degraded to the level of poop.
    The poor bastard working on the loader. I don't even know if there
    is an authoritative and logically written description of how everything
    loads, or what gubbins are needed to load stuff. If this is evolution,
    its knuckles are dragging on the ground again. Throwing an undocumented (repositories...) WinGet into the mix, that's just a sloppy icing
    for our poop cake.

    So while it's great to write lines of Powershell to do this and that,
    this is not "teaching a man to fish". This is "giving him a fish".
    We don't have a reliable treatise useful for teaching a man to fish.
    If I asked an LLM-Ai to do this, it is quite possible it would
    forget a few methods. And as you "have to know the answer" to trust
    an LLM-AI screed, there's no guarantee of good coverage of the topic.

    I would hope Microsoft keeps internal documents on the topic, but
    who really knows. Otherwise, how would a new employee become familiar
    with the labyrinth. Asking the person in the cubicle next to you,
    is not considered a good usage of their time. And asking Raymond,
    Raymond is busy. He's already shoving shit that should have been
    shoveled years ago.

    This is one of the differences at Apple. Historically, they had
    "Inside Macintosh". The format and presentation, is preserved
    in TN (Technical Notes). Some of the notes are fantastically good.
    I wrote a partition manager once for my Mac disk, and I could
    do that using a *single* TN, didn't have to read anything else.
    (This was after gparted impressed me by utterly destroying the partition table.)
    When they choose to document something, it's not a half hearted
    effort on their part. The efforts are usually "better than Wikipedia"
    level of technical notes. The way someone might explain a thing
    to you in a USENET post. Whereas the Microsoft documentation
    is unimaginative "the boss is beating me with a stick to write
    this description" flavored documentation, the best kind of
    documentation when you really needed charitably written material.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E. R.@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 29 13:16:50 2026
    On 2026-08-28 21:37, Paul wrote:
    On Fri, 8/28/2026 12:25 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Maria Sophia wrote:


    This is one of the differences at Apple. Historically, they had
    "Inside Macintosh". The format and presentation, is preserved
    in TN (Technical Notes). Some of the notes are fantastically good.
    I wrote a partition manager once for my Mac disk, and I could
    do that using a *single* TN, didn't have to read anything else.
    (This was after gparted impressed me by utterly destroying the partition table.)
    When they choose to document something, it's not a half hearted
    effort on their part. The efforts are usually "better than Wikipedia"
    level of technical notes. The way someone might explain a thing
    to you in a USENET post. Whereas the Microsoft documentation
    is unimaginative "the boss is beating me with a stick to write
    this description" flavored documentation, the best kind of
    documentation when you really needed charitably written material.

    I bought a book named something like "undocumented windows" long ago.
    That was w3.11, I think. Also the Programmers Reference, the User Guide
    and Reference for MsDos 5...

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ES??, EU??.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Arno Welzel@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 30 12:58:40 2026
    Maria Sophia, 2026-08-27 04:08:

    PSA: How to add WSL grep to the Windows command-line PATH

    This is an Android:Windows cross-platform problem that I run into every
    day because most adb examples we find on the net use grep (not findstr).

    It's a PITA to constantly convert adb examples using grep to findstr.

    So this approach below is what I just decided to finally do after getting tired of converting adb|grep examples found on the net to findstr syntax.

    I recognize there are many ways to add "grep" to the Windows path.
    But, since I already had WSL installed for other reasons, it bothered me
    that I couldn't just call the Ubuntu grep from the Windows command line.

    What good is WSL if you can't use it when you need it?

    Well - I switched to Linux completely a while ago since I couldn't stand
    using Windows 11 any longer. I did never regret it. Currently using
    Kubuntu 26.04 with KDE 6.6 and I don't miss anything at all.


    --
    Arno Welzel
    https://arnowelzel.de

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Kerr-Mudd, John@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 30 12:48:56 2026
    On Sun, 30 Aug 2026 12:58:40 +0200
    Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

    Maria Sophia, 2026-08-27 04:08:

    PSA: How to add WSL grep to the Windows command-line PATH

    This is an Android:Windows cross-platform problem that I run into every day because most adb examples we find on the net use grep (not findstr).

    It's a PITA to constantly convert adb examples using grep to findstr.

    So this approach below is what I just decided to finally do after getting tired of converting adb|grep examples found on the net to findstr syntax.

    I recognize there are many ways to add "grep" to the Windows path.
    But, since I already had WSL installed for other reasons, it bothered me that I couldn't just call the Ubuntu grep from the Windows command line.

    What good is WSL if you can't use it when you need it?

    Well - I switched to Linux completely a while ago since I couldn't stand using Windows 11 any longer. I did never regret it. Currently using
    Kubuntu 26.04 with KDE 6.6 and I don't miss anything at all.


    Clearly you miss the xposts.
    --
    Arno Welzel
    https://arnowelzel.de


    --
    Bah, and indeed Humbug.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Brian Gregory@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 31 01:15:21 2026
    Just install Microsoft coreutils.
    https://github.com/microsoft/coreutils

    It's not worth downgrading my useful WSL2 to WSL1 just to avoid
    installing Microsoft coreutils.

    --
    Brian Gregory (in England).

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 31 05:34:52 2026
    On Sun, 30 Aug 2026 20:53:25 -0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

    I should note that not everyone has WSL{1,2} already installed on
    Windows.

    Surely all those still trying to do serious development on Windows
    will have WSL2 or later.

    <https://www.infoworld.com/article/4196853/how-to-set-up-windows-for-software-development.html>

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 31 12:45:48 2026
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 30 Aug 2026 20:53:25 -0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

    I should note that not everyone has WSL{1,2} already installed on
    Windows.

    Surely all those still trying to do serious development on Windows
    will have WSL2 or later.

    <https://www.infoworld.com/article/4196853/how-to-set-up-windows-for-software-development.html>

    I liked this bit:

    "The lions share of the worlds software development work happens on
    Linux, or a Unix-like system like macOS,"

    :-)

    Also note that this article is not about replacing Windows as a
    development platform, but about *adding* a Linux/Unix development
    environment to it.

    So as we've been saying all along: Linux cannot replace Windows, nor
    vice versa.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 31 14:24:15 2026
    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Frank Slootweg wrote:
    [...]
    It's just not the solution you came up with (i.e., Cygwin) as we've been there, and done that, and ditched it, oh, maybe twenty five years ago.

    There is nothing wrong with the Cygwin abomination if you already have it running, just as a Linux inside a VM is fine, if it talks to your phone.

    As I said before, Cygwin is way more complete and flexible than both 'Coreutils for Windows' and GnuWin. *Because* it's more complete/
    powerful than the other two, it encounters more Windows/Unix
    differences, which it has to handle. That's not an "abomination", but
    the consequence of its power.

    BTW, Lawrence just posted a link to this

    'How to set up Windows for software development' <https://www.infoworld.com/article/4196853/how-to-set-up-windows-for-software-development.html>

    which says

    "Some other tools for developing in Windows are optional, but useful:
    ...
    * MSYS2 (MSYS2.MSYS2): A collection of tools for building Windows
    binaries using the GCC compiler. Basically, an alternative to the
    Visual Studio build stack based on the Cygwin environment."

    So much for "the Cygwin abomination"! :-)

    And yes, it *also* mentions 'CoreUtils for Windows'.

    [...]

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From vallor@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 31 18:25:24 2026
    At Mon, 31 Aug 2026 11:50:59 -0600, Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:

    Frank Slootweg wrote:
    There is nothing wrong with the Cygwin abomination if you already
    have it running, just as a Linux inside a VM is fine, if it talks
    to your phone.

    As I said before, Cygwin is way more complete and flexible than
    both
    'Coreutils for Windows' and GnuWin. *Because* it's more complete/
    powerful than the other two, it encounters more Windows/Unix
    differences, which it has to handle. That's not an "abomination",
    but the consequence of its power.

    BTW, Lawrence just posted a link to this

    'How to set up Windows for software development' <https://www.infoworld.com/article/4196853/how-to-set-up-windows-for-software-development.html>

    which says

    "Some other tools for developing in Windows are optional, but
    useful:
    ...
    * MSYS2 (MSYS2.MSYS2): A collection of tools for building Windows
    binaries using the GCC compiler. Basically, an alternative to the
    Visual Studio build stack based on the Cygwin environment."

    So much for "the Cygwin abomination"! :-)

    And yes, it *also* mentions 'CoreUtils for Windows'.

    Hi Frank,

    I agree with you.

    When I wrote this public service announcement, I was not trying to
    turn Windows into a "development environment", as I was merely trying
    to get the adb examples on the net to work inside the Windows command
    line interface.
    C:\> adb shell pm list packages | grep -i gsf

    adb -- Android Debug Bridge -- is a developer command.

    (Although: I *have* built a web application around it, to control
    digital signage, which is used by end users.)

    (Remaining smarm snipped...)

    --
    -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 Mem: 258G
    OS: Linux 7.2.2 D: Mint 22.3 DE: Xfce 4.18 (X11)
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090Ti (24G) (610.57.04)
    "I made it foolproof. They are making better fools!"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 31 22:28:32 2026
    On Mon, 31 Aug 2026 09:34:18 -0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

    WSL 1 used a translation layer. It intercepted Linux system calls
    and translated them on-the-fly into Windows NT kernel system calls.

    When Windows NT was first being developed, it was supposed to have the
    concept of ?personalities?, in the form of an extra plug-in layer on
    top of the core kernel.

    The Win32 API itself was implemented as one of these ?personalities?.
    Also a company called Softway Systems were granted access to the
    documentation to how to create a new ?personality?, which they used to
    create a fairly-functional Unix-compatibility layer (better than the
    piece of crap that was the POSIX-compliance layer that Microsoft
    itself offered) called ?Interix?
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interix>.

    Microsoft later restricted access to this documentation for
    implementing ?personalities?, and also acquired Softway/Interix, which
    had the effect of ensuring that knowledge of how to do such things did
    not spread any further outside the company.

    Anyway, you?d think they would use this same ?personality?
    architecture to implement WSL1. But apparently not. It never really
    worked well, which is why it was abandoned in favour of a
    full-function Linux kernel in WSL2 and later.

    Oh, and think of going the other way, implementing a Windows
    ?personality? on top of Linux: it exists in the form of WINE, and is
    working well enough that it is actually stealing market share from
    Windows in the gaming market.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Tue Sep 1 07:31:36 2026
    On Mon, 31 Aug 2026 21:33:39 -0600, Maria Sophia wrote:

    Lawrence D˜Oliveiro wrote:

    Oh, and think of going the other way, implementing a Windows
    ?personality? on top of Linux: it exists in the form of WINE, and
    is working well enough that it is actually stealing market share
    from Windows in the gaming market.

    Ah, WINE. You bring back bad memories, given I gave up on WINE long
    ago ...

    Valve hasn?t. It?s been including it with the well-regarded Steam Deck
    handheld gaming PC for some years now. And some vendors of
    Windows-based handhelds are starting to offer it as an alternative OS
    as well. It?s that good -- not some fiddly experimental kludge any
    more, but robust enough to support production code in the hands of
    nontechnical users.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Arno Welzel@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 2 17:41:59 2026
    Maria Sophia, 2026-08-31 17:34:

    Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Also note that this article is not about replacing Windows as a
    development platform, but about *adding* a Linux/Unix development
    environment to it.

    So as we've been saying all along: Linux cannot replace Windows, nor
    vice versa.

    I agree with both Lawrence & Frank in interpretation of this article
    <https://www.infoworld.com/article/4196853/how-to-set-up-windows-for-software-development.html>

    And, like Frank, I note some sentences in particular such as
    "Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) lets you work seamlessly
    with Linux on Windows without the clunk and overhead of a VM."

    When I saw that sentence, I checked the date of the article, which
    surprised me was recent because it was my understanding WSL2 is inside a VM while WSL1 was not inside a VM (the core difference being native vs non-native Linux commands).

    WSL2 *is* a VM provided by the VM subsystem of Windwos which also
    provides Hyper-V and was used for the Android Subsystem which got
    removed again.

    The article writer just confused "no need to start VirtualBox or VMware"
    with "no VM" - but of course Linux running in WSL is a VM as well.


    --
    Arno Welzel
    https://arnowelzel.de

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Arno Welzel@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 2 17:44:01 2026
    Maria Sophia, 2026-09-01 05:33:

    Lawrence D˜Oliveiro wrote:
    Oh, and think of going the other way, implementing a Windows
    ?personality­ on top of Linux: it exists in the form of WINE, and is
    working well enough that it is actually stealing market share from
    Windows in the gaming market.

    Ah, WINE. You bring back bad memories, given I gave up on WINE long ago,
    but that's kind of the point, which is it has never been easy to add
    another operating system to any operating system, although we all tried.

    WINE works very well here - *today*. You can not compare what you know
    from 5 oder 10 years in the past with the current version.

    Steam for Linux runs completely on WINE and the games often run *better*
    than in Windows. I also have a number applications in WINE which work
    just fine.


    --
    Arno Welzel
    https://arnowelzel.de

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 2 14:50:19 2026
    On Wed, 9/2/2026 11:41 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
    Maria Sophia, 2026-08-31 17:34:

    Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Also note that this article is not about replacing Windows as a
    development platform, but about *adding* a Linux/Unix development
    environment to it.

    So as we've been saying all along: Linux cannot replace Windows, nor
    vice versa.

    I agree with both Lawrence & Frank in interpretation of this article
    <https://www.infoworld.com/article/4196853/how-to-set-up-windows-for-software-development.html>

    And, like Frank, I note some sentences in particular such as
    "Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) lets you work seamlessly
    with Linux on Windows without the clunk and overhead of a VM."

    When I saw that sentence, I checked the date of the article, which
    surprised me was recent because it was my understanding WSL2 is inside a VM >> while WSL1 was not inside a VM (the core difference being native vs
    non-native Linux commands).

    WSL2 *is* a VM provided by the VM subsystem of Windwos which also
    provides Hyper-V and was used for the Android Subsystem which got
    removed again.

    The article writer just confused "no need to start VirtualBox or VMware"
    with "no VM" - but of course Linux running in WSL is a VM as well.



    The WSL2 is rootless when it comes to displaying things on screen. There
    are more VHDX than this, but this is the one that is easily listed. The
    Windows 7 "WinXP Mode" was also rootless and used Terminal Services for graphics injection, just like WSL2 does.

    ext4.vhdx 10,316,939,264 bytes

    When you use WSL2 and run "firefox", just a single Firefox window appears on the Windows desktop.

    The VirtualBox and VMWare are rooted and display a rectangle which
    represents the entire guest OS.

    That's a difference in the display part of the hosting software.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dan Purgert@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 2 19:51:16 2026
    On 2026-09-02, Arno Welzel wrote:
    Maria Sophia, 2026-08-31 17:34:

    Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Also note that this article is not about replacing Windows as a
    development platform, but about *adding* a Linux/Unix development
    environment to it.

    So as we've been saying all along: Linux cannot replace Windows, nor
    vice versa.

    I agree with both Lawrence & Frank in interpretation of this article
    <https://www.infoworld.com/article/4196853/how-to-set-up-windows-for-software-development.html>

    And, like Frank, I note some sentences in particular such as
    "Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) lets you work seamlessly
    with Linux on Windows without the clunk and overhead of a VM."

    When I saw that sentence, I checked the date of the article, which
    surprised me was recent because it was my understanding WSL2 is inside a VM >> while WSL1 was not inside a VM (the core difference being native vs
    non-native Linux commands).

    WSL2 *is* a VM provided by the VM subsystem of Windwos which also
    provides Hyper-V and was used for the Android Subsystem which got
    removed again.

    The article writer just confused "no need to start VirtualBox or VMware"
    with "no VM" - but of course Linux running in WSL is a VM as well.

    This reads a lot like those threads that arlow guy used to post... it's
    not the same OP is it?


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Arno Welzel@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 2 22:00:03 2026
    Paul, 2026-09-02 20:50:

    [...]> When you use WSL2 and run "firefox", just a single Firefox window appears on
    the Windows desktop.

    The VirtualBox and VMWare are rooted and display a rectangle which
    represents the entire guest OS.

    VMware Workstation/Player also provided a mode where programs in the VM
    are using their own Windows in inside the Windows desktop. However this required a special driver inside the VM since this was intended to be
    used with Windows as VM guest and Windows does not have a concept like
    X11 where single programs can use an X server instead of the one and
    single frame buffer provided by the graphics card driver.

    That's a difference in the display part of the hosting software.

    It's more a difference in the operating systems running in the VM and
    their Window managers. WSL2 for example requires X11 to make it possible
    to have Linux programs running with their own Windows in the host. With
    Wayland this is technically impossible without a lot of work to extend
    Wayland for this.
    --
    Arno Welzel
    https://arnowelzel.de

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 2 22:05:19 2026
    On 2026-09-02 21:51, Dan Purgert wrote:
    On 2026-09-02, Arno Welzel wrote:
    Maria Sophia, 2026-08-31 17:34:

    ...

    The article writer just confused "no need to start VirtualBox or VMware"
    with "no VM" - but of course Linux running in WSL is a VM as well.

    This reads a lot like those threads that arlow guy used to post... it's
    not the same OP is it?

    You mean Arlen? Yes, Arlen is Maria.

    Grepping for arlow I see one Seamus Harlowe in 2021, just one post.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard Kettlewell@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 2 21:16:32 2026
    Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> writes:
    It's more a difference in the operating systems running in the VM and
    their Window managers. WSL2 for example requires X11 to make it
    possible to have Linux programs running with their own Windows in the
    host. With Wayland this is technically impossible without a lot of
    work to extend Wayland for this.

    That work has evidently been done. The WSL2 display architecture is:

    client -> [XWayland ->] Weston -> RDP -> Windows desktop

    ...with the XWayland part being optional, in the sense that you can run
    Wayland clients under Linux and they display in their own independent
    window on the Windows desktop.

    https://github.com/microsoft/wslg gets into the details.

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dan Purgert@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 2 20:25:41 2026
    On 2026-09-02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-09-02 21:51, Dan Purgert wrote:
    On 2026-09-02, Arno Welzel wrote:
    Maria Sophia, 2026-08-31 17:34:

    ...

    The article writer just confused "no need to start VirtualBox or VMware" >>> with "no VM" - but of course Linux running in WSL is a VM as well.

    This reads a lot like those threads that arlow guy used to post... it's
    not the same OP is it?

    You mean Arlen? Yes, Arlen is Maria.

    Yeah, that's the one. Time to go fix some filters :)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 2 21:36:56 2026
    On Wed, 9/2/2026 4:42 PM, Maria Sophia wrote:
    Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> writes:
    It's more a difference in the operating systems running in the VM and
    their Window managers. WSL2 for example requires X11 to make it
    possible to have Linux programs running with their own Windows in the
    host. With Wayland this is technically impossible without a lot of
    work to extend Wayland for this.

    That work has evidently been done. The WSL2 display architecture is:

    client -> [XWayland ->] Weston -> RDP -> Windows desktop

    ...with the XWayland part being optional, in the sense that you can run
    Wayland clients under Linux and they display in their own independent
    window on the Windows desktop.

    https://github.com/microsoft/wslg gets into the details.

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/


    Could it simply be that the main reason Linux GUI apps work differently in
    a VM/WSL is mostly likely more about how the graphical systems are
    connected and not because Windows inherently can't display Linux windows?


    Traditionally, you ran an application in Ring 3, to function as the display.

    When I had a Mac, and wished to remote into work for a CAD session,
    it was "MacX" you would run for X11.

    When WSL (original edition) came out, it was XMing. One of the disks
    on the other machine, still has the setup.

    It's a solve-able problem.

    One challenge, is not all distros are set up for native X11. There
    is Wayland (and XWayland). I have one setup which is native X11, and
    a benchmark makes it twice as fast as Wayland. The new shiny, costs.

    Just finding a nice benchmark tool is a problem.

    And when it comes to benching Windows and Linux, not all the players
    are scrupulously honest. When Anandtech was around, on a few occasions
    they tried running "desktop workloads" on server class machines. Just
    to see what that would look like. They may have used a 48C 96T box or so, something roughly that size, and they noticed a "kink" in the bench curve,
    just above 64 cores. They were running some Windows Pro thing at the time. Anand considered this worth chasing down, and it turned out, someone
    answered his question, and told him he needed Windows Workstation for
    more than 64 virtual cores, because Windows switches to "processor groups" above 64 cores, and Task Manager also starts using heat maps for the CPU display. Windows Enterprise is likely similarly endowed (but likely to be
    more expensive than the Workstation SKU). When the benchmarks were rerun,
    the curve no longer tipped at the end, but pointed more or less in the
    right direction (subject to the usual effects from Intel ring buses
    at the time). And today, I can find a review from someone you would
    recognize, who put Windows Pro on such a machine and benchmarked it and
    then produces a "quote-able number" for "how slow WIndows is".
    After Anandtech made a splash all those years ago, with an admission
    their first benchmarks were wrong, because they had used the wrong Windows OS.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Sep 3 02:28:26 2026
    On Wed, 2 Sep 2026 21:36:56 -0400, Paul wrote:

    And today, I can find a review from someone you would recognize, who
    put Windows Pro on such a machine and benchmarked it and then
    produces a "quote-able number" for "how slow WIndows is". After
    Anandtech made a splash all those years ago, with an admission their
    first benchmarks were wrong, because they had used the wrong Windows
    OS.

    I wouldn?t blame them, I would blame Microsoft. That is the most
    common (and affordable) OS option it offers that is a bit above the
    ?Home? edition, naturally that is what people in the real world are
    most likely to use. So why shouldn?t it be the version referenced in benchmarks?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 2 23:18:33 2026
    On Wed, 9/2/2026 10:28 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Sep 2026 21:36:56 -0400, Paul wrote:

    And today, I can find a review from someone you would recognize, who
    put Windows Pro on such a machine and benchmarked it and then
    produces a "quote-able number" for "how slow WIndows is". After
    Anandtech made a splash all those years ago, with an admission their
    first benchmarks were wrong, because they had used the wrong Windows
    OS.

    I wouldn?t blame them, I would blame Microsoft. That is the most
    common (and affordable) OS option it offers that is a bit above the
    ?Home? edition, naturally that is what people in the real world are
    most likely to use. So why shouldn?t it be the version referenced in benchmarks?


    THE ORDER PAGE FOR THAT COMPUTER, HIGHLIGHTS "WINDOWS WORKSTATION" BY DEFAULT. ffs.

    The SKU is right on the order page, and it is lit up (as the default).

    There's a couple things about Windows.

    1) There is a memory license. I had to deal with that back in Windows 7,
    so I could use all the memory in the Test Machine. Current Windows versions
    are quite generous on Memory License. Some of the older OSes, were not generous.
    Maybe you could buy a 6TB dual socket server motherboard, filled with max RAM,
    then use Win11 Pro, and not all your RAM would show up. You could, at the same
    time, buy two AMD processors with the "very low core counts" and then congratulate
    yourself on not needing Windows Workstation. These processors are not a "typical"
    offering, so you might not see them on Newegg. The purpose of the low core count
    ones, is they have a higher turbo clock (for those single threads you dream
    of running on $100K machines).

    2) Processor groups is a thing. A 96C 192T would have 3*64 groups.
    This has something to do with how the scheduler works. If you're buying
    big iron, you have to think about these things.

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Sep 3 05:03:27 2026
    On Wed, 2 Sep 2026 23:18:33 -0400, Paul wrote:

    There's a couple things about Windows.

    1) There is a memory license. I had to deal with that back in
    Windows 7, so I could use all the memory in the Test Machine.
    Current Windows versions are quite generous on Memory License.
    Some of the older OSes, were not generous. Maybe you could buy a
    6TB dual socket server motherboard, filled with max RAM, then use
    Win11 Pro, and not all your RAM would show up. You could, at the
    same time, buy two AMD processors with the "very low core counts"
    and then congratulate yourself on not needing Windows
    Workstation.

    On Linux, it costs $0 to support entry-level processor/core configurations.
    And then you have to pay an extra $0 for the next level up, and so on.

    And that?s per-seat.

    2) Processor groups is a thing. A 96C 192T would have 3*64 groups.
    This has something to do with how the scheduler works. If you're
    buying big iron, you have to think about these things.

    Again, the Linux licensing goes in steps of $0 for each level. I think
    a single node can have up to 2048 CPUs, so a million-CPU super will
    need quite a few nodes, at $0 a pop.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Thu Sep 3 08:23:13 2026
    On 2026-09-03 07:03, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Sep 2026 23:18:33 -0400, Paul wrote:

    There's a couple things about Windows.

    1) There is a memory license. I had to deal with that back in
    Windows 7, so I could use all the memory in the Test Machine.
    Current Windows versions are quite generous on Memory License.
    Some of the older OSes, were not generous. Maybe you could buy a
    6TB dual socket server motherboard, filled with max RAM, then use
    Win11 Pro, and not all your RAM would show up. You could, at the
    same time, buy two AMD processors with the "very low core counts"
    and then congratulate yourself on not needing Windows
    Workstation.

    On Linux, it costs $0 to support entry-level processor/core configurations. And then you have to pay an extra $0 for the next level up, and so on.

    And that?s per-seat.

    2) Processor groups is a thing. A 96C 192T would have 3*64 groups.
    This has something to do with how the scheduler works. If you're
    buying big iron, you have to think about these things.

    Again, the Linux licensing goes in steps of $0 for each level. I think
    a single node can have up to 2048 CPUs, so a million-CPU super will
    need quite a few nodes, at $0 a pop.

    Mmm. At those levels, it is feasible people use enterprise versions of
    Linux, which no longer have a zero cost.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J.O. Aho@3:633/10 to All on Thu Sep 3 08:39:46 2026
    On 27/08/2026 08.05, Maria Sophia wrote:

    Usage of commands from a VM in microsoft windows is unrelated for Linux usergroups.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Arno Welzel@3:633/10 to All on Fri Sep 4 18:37:24 2026
    Richard Kettlewell, 2026-09-02 22:16:

    Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> writes:
    It's more a difference in the operating systems running in the VM and
    their Window managers. WSL2 for example requires X11 to make it
    possible to have Linux programs running with their own Windows in the
    host. With Wayland this is technically impossible without a lot of
    work to extend Wayland for this.

    That work has evidently been done. The WSL2 display architecture is:

    client -> [XWayland ->] Weston -> RDP -> Windows desktop

    ...with the XWayland part being optional, in the sense that you can run Wayland clients under Linux and they display in their own independent
    window on the Windows desktop.

    https://github.com/microsoft/wslg gets into the details.

    Thanks, I wasn't aware of this.


    --
    Arno Welzel
    https://arnowelzel.de

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)