But surely it is unnecessary to have explicit entries for these names cluttering up every directory; why not just build their recognition
as a special case into the pathname-parsing logic in the kernel,
once and for all?
That way, directory-traversal routines in user
programs don’t have to be specially coded to look for, and skip
these entries, every single time.
My understanding is that the kernel doesn't know / care where what the
path to the file is.
Instead it cares about the file identifier, or
inode. Remember, you can have the same file / inode appear in multiple directories a la hard links.
As such, I don't think you can special case "." and ".." into the pathname-parsing logic in the kernel.
I question why you are wanting to treat "." and ".." special when you
are working with dot files. It seems to me like if you are explicitly looking for dot files, then you'd want to see "." and "..".
Of course, it took far too long (7 years) to reach production quality.
In that time, a small group of researchers at AT&T Bell Labs grew
tired of waiting, and decided to create their own, less ambitious
system, which they called “UNIX” as a tongue-in-cheek homage t
Of course, it took far too long (7 years) to reach production quality.
In that time, a small group of researchers at AT&T Bell Labs grew
tired of waiting, and decided to create their own, less ambitious
system, which they called "UNIX" as a tongue-in-cheek homage t
What I read is a bit different: AT&T management got tired and
decided to quit the project. Researchers at Bell Labs liked
Multics features, did not want to loose them, so decided to
do their own simpler variant.
On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 19:13:42 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote:
Instead it cares about the file identifier, or
inode. Remember, you can have the same file / inode appear in multiple
directories a la hard links.
Yes you can. But there is no userland API in POSIX/*nix to let you
identify a file directly by inode. You always have to specify some path
that gets to it. This is by design.
Hmm. I haven't gone grovelling through the API documentation, but I note
that find(1) on this machine (Ubuntu 18.04.6 LTS) has the -inum option
to find files by inode number. So unless find(1) does some serious
acrobatics for that ...
On 19 Dec 2024 05:22:37 GMT, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
Hmm. I haven't gone grovelling through the API documentation, but I note
that find(1) on this machine (Ubuntu 18.04.6 LTS) has the -inum option
to find files by inode number. So unless find(1) does some serious
acrobatics for that ...
It calls stat(2) or lstat(2) and checks the st_ino field in the returned data.
antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) writes:
Of course, it took far too long (7 years) to reach production quality.
In that time, a small group of researchers at AT&T Bell Labs grew
tired of waiting, and decided to create their own, less ambitious
system, which they called "UNIX" as a tongue-in-cheek homage t
What I read is a bit different: AT&T management got tired and
decided to quit the project. Researchers at Bell Labs liked
Multics features, did not want to loose them, so decided to
do their own simpler variant.
That is the usual story; the poster to whom you responded often gets this kind >of thing wrong...
On 2024-12-18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 19:13:42 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote:
Instead it cares about the file identifier, or
inode. Remember, you can have the same file / inode appear in multiple
directories a la hard links.
Yes you can. But there is no userland API in POSIX/*nix to let you
identify a file directly by inode. You always have to specify some path
that gets to it. This is by design.
Hmm. I haven't gone grovelling through the API documentation, but I note
that find(1) on this machine (Ubuntu 18.04.6 LTS) has the -inum option
to find files by inode number. So unless find(1) does some serious
acrobatics for that, I do think there's a userland API to identify a
file by inode.
Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> writes:
Hmm. I haven't gone grovelling through the API documentation, but I note >>that find(1) on this machine (Ubuntu 18.04.6 LTS) has the -inum option
to find files by inode number. So unless find(1) does some serious >>acrobatics for that, I do think there's a userland API to identify a
file by inode.
Admins used to use ncheck(8) to map inode numbers to path name(s)
in bell labs versions of Unix.
I've wondered recently why it's not feasible to make large passenger planes >capable of water landing.Well, they keep having to replace all the seat cushions, for one
On 2024-12-19, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> writes:
Hmm. I haven't gone grovelling through the API documentation, but I note >>>that find(1) on this machine (Ubuntu 18.04.6 LTS) has the -inum option
to find files by inode number. So unless find(1) does some serious >>>acrobatics for that, I do think there's a userland API to identify a
file by inode.
Admins used to use ncheck(8) to map inode numbers to path name(s)
in bell labs versions of Unix.
Oh, hello. That's an interesting fact. I like it when things like this
come up in discussions here. Thank you!
I found https://illumos.org/man/8/ncheck - interesting!
Admins used to use ncheck(8) to map inode numbers to path name(s)
in bell labs versions of Unix.
find(1) uses 'stat(2)' to get the inode number when walking the
filesystem tree, so it's more a brute force method than an API.
On 2024-12-19, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> writes:
Hmm. I haven't gone grovelling through the API documentation, but I note >>>that find(1) on this machine (Ubuntu 18.04.6 LTS) has the -inum option
to find files by inode number. So unless find(1) does some serious >>>acrobatics for that, I do think there's a userland API to identify a
file by inode.
Admins used to use ncheck(8) to map inode numbers to path name(s)
in bell labs versions of Unix.
Oh, hello. That's an interesting fact. I like it when things like this
come up in discussions here. Thank you!
I found https://illumos.org/man/8/ncheck - interesting!
A quick web search suggests that at least some commercial UNIXes still
have it; Illumos is of course a Solaris derivative, and I found a
reference to it existing on AIX as well. On Linux, assuming ext*, you >apparently have to use debugfs to do something similar.
On 2024-12-19, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On 19 Dec 2024 05:22:37 GMT, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
Hmm. I haven't gone grovelling through the API documentation, but I
note that find(1) on this machine (Ubuntu 18.04.6 LTS) has the -inum
option to find files by inode number. So unless find(1) does some
serious acrobatics for that ...
It calls stat(2) or lstat(2) and checks the st_ino field in the
returned data.
Looks like you're right; the only way to directly manipulate a file by
its inode number is through direct manipulation of the filesystem via
some FS-dependent tool (debugfs in the case of ext*).
On 2024-12-19, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> writes:
Hmm. I haven't gone grovelling through the API documentation, but I note >>> that find(1) on this machine (Ubuntu 18.04.6 LTS) has the -inum option
to find files by inode number. So unless find(1) does some serious
acrobatics for that, I do think there's a userland API to identify a
file by inode.
Admins used to use ncheck(8) to map inode numbers to path name(s)
in bell labs versions of Unix.
Oh, hello. That's an interesting fact. I like it when things like this
come up in discussions here. Thank you!
I found https://illumos.org/man/8/ncheck - interesting!
A quick web search suggests that at least some commercial UNIXes still
have it; Illumos is of course a Solaris derivative, and I found a
reference to it existing on AIX as well. On Linux, assuming ext*, you apparently have to use debugfs to do something similar.
Niklas
I was reading the introductory ???Multics Concepts and Utilization??? book <http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/large_systems/multics/F01_multicsIntroCourseOct78.pdf>
over at Bitsavers. Multics (the ???MULTiplexed Information and Computing Service???) was, for its time, an extremely ambitious operating system project. It was first introduced in 1965, in the form of a series of
papers at the AFIPS Fall Joint Computer Conference of that year <https://www.computer.org/csdl/proceedings/1965/afips/12OmNzSh1au>.
Of course, it took far too long (7 years) to reach production quality.
In that time, a small group of researchers at AT&T Bell Labs grew
tired of waiting, and decided to create their own, less ambitious
system, which they called ???UNIX??? as a tongue-in-cheek homage to ???Multics???. And the rest, as they say, is history.
This is normally hailed as “IBM pioneered virtualization”. But
it was just a less flexible, higher-overhead way of supporting
multiple users than other vendors, like DEC, were able to do far
more efficiently.
Service bureaus loved CP and VM to make sure customer data stayed
secure.
Great for security, though. Service bureaus loved CP and VM to make
sure customer data stayed secure.
Was it better for security than physically separate machines?
Or was it a compromise that behaved like separate machines without
paying for multiple machines? ;-)
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