• Re: VAX

    From Stefan Monnier@3:633/280.2 to All on Mon Sep 1 06:43:26 2025
    Apr 2003: Opteron launch
    Sep 2003: Athlon 64 launch
    Oct 2003 (IIRC): I buy an Athlon 64
    Nov 2003: Fedora Core 1 released for IA-32, X86-64, PowerPC

    I installed Fedora Core 1 on my Athlon64 box in early 2004.

    Why wait for MS?

    Same here (tho I was on team Debian), but I don't think GNU/Linux
    enthusiasts were the main buyers of those Opteron and
    Athlon64 machines.


    Stefan

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  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOlivei@3:633/280.2 to All on Mon Sep 1 08:26:43 2025
    On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 16:43:26 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:

    ... I don't think GNU/Linux enthusiasts were the main buyers of
    those Opteron and Athlon64 machines.

    Their early popularity would have been in servers. And servers were
    already becoming dominated by Linux in those days.

    โ€œOpteronโ€ was specifically a brand name for server chips, as I recall.

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  • From Anton Ertl@3:633/280.2 to All on Mon Sep 1 16:07:27 2025
    Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
    Apr 2003: Opteron launch
    Sep 2003: Athlon 64 launch
    Oct 2003 (IIRC): I buy an Athlon 64
    Nov 2003: Fedora Core 1 released for IA-32, X86-64, PowerPC

    I installed Fedora Core 1 on my Athlon64 box in early 2004.

    Why wait for MS?

    Same here (tho I was on team Debian)

    I would have liked to install 64-bit Debian (IIRC I initially ran
    32-bit Debian on the Athlon 64), but they were not ready at the time,
    and still busily working on their multi-arch (IIRC) plans, so
    eventually I decided to go with Fedora Core 1, which just implemented
    /lib and /lib64 and was there first.

    For some reason I switched to Gentoo relatively soon after
    (/etc/hostname from 2005-02-20, and IIRC Debian still had not finished hammering out multi-arch at that time), before finally settling in
    Debian-land several years later.

    - anton
    --
    'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
    Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

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    * Origin: Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Uni (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOlivei@3:633/280.2 to All on Mon Sep 1 16:57:26 2025
    On Mon, 01 Sep 2025 06:07:27 GMT, Anton Ertl wrote:

    I would have liked to install 64-bit Debian (IIRC I initially ran
    32-bit Debian on the Athlon 64), but they were not ready at the time
    ... so eventually I decided to go with Fedora Core 1, which just
    implemented /lib and /lib64 and was there first.

    For some reason I switched to Gentoo relatively soon after ...
    before finally settling in Debian-land several years later.

    Distro-hopping is a long-standing tradition in the Linux world. No other platform comes close.

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    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Anton Ertl@3:633/280.2 to All on Mon Sep 1 17:40:47 2025
    anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
    I would have liked to install 64-bit Debian (IIRC I initially ran
    32-bit Debian on the Athlon 64), but they were not ready at the time,
    and still busily working on their multi-arch (IIRC) plans, so
    eventually I decided to go with Fedora Core 1, which just implemented
    /lib and /lib64 and was there first.

    For some reason I switched to Gentoo relatively soon after
    (/etc/hostname from 2005-02-20, and IIRC Debian still had not finished >hammering out multi-arch at that time), before finally settling in >Debian-land several years later.

    Reading some more, Debian 4.0 (Etch), released 8 April 2007, was the
    first Debian with official AMD64 support.

    Multiarch was introduced in Debian 7 (Wheezy), released 4 May 2013.

    So Multiarch took much longer than they had originally expected, and
    they apparently settled for the lib64 approach for Debian 4-6.

    - anton
    --
    'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
    Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

    --- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Uni (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Stefan Monnier@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Sep 2 02:15:54 2025
    Reading some more, Debian 4.0 (Etch), released 8 April 2007, was the
    first Debian with official AMD64 support.

    Indeed, I misremembered: I used Debian's i386 port on my 2003 AMD64
    machine.
    It didn't have enough RAM to justify the bother of distro hopping. ๐Ÿ™‚


    Stefan

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    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From BGB@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Sep 2 02:33:33 2025
    On 9/1/2025 11:15 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
    Reading some more, Debian 4.0 (Etch), released 8 April 2007, was the
    first Debian with official AMD64 support.

    Indeed, I misremembered: I used Debian's i386 port on my 2003 AMD64
    machine.
    It didn't have enough RAM to justify the bother of distro hopping. ๐Ÿ™‚


    My first AMD64 machine also ended up mostly running 32-bit OS's, but
    more because initially:
    It was unstable if running 64-bit Linux;
    It was also not very stable initially with XP-X64;
    Driver support for XP-X64, initially, was almost non existent.
    So, ended up mostly running 32-bit WinXP on the thing.

    Though, after the initial weak results, on my next machine I had a
    better experience and IIRC had it set up to dual boot XP-X64 and Fedora,
    by that point stuff was stable and XP-X64 had drivers for stuff. I stuck
    with XP-X64 mostly as Vista was kinda trash (until some years later
    jumping to Win7, and now Win10).


    Well, and (at least in these years) Linux still had serious issues with
    driver compatibility, so you can use the OS but typically with no 3D acceleration or sound (and Mesa-GL in SW mode is horribly slow).

    At least Ethernet tended to work as most MOBOs had settled on the
    RTL8139 or similar (well, until MOBOs started having Gigabit Ethernet,
    and suddenly Ethernet no longer worked in Linux for a while, ...).

    Well, Linux land often failing to provide a great experience, not so
    much because of UI (and, I actually like using the Bash shell for
    stuff), but because of ever-present hardware support issues (so, can't
    usually end up running it as the main OS as much of the HW often didn't
    work).

    ....



    Stefan


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  • From Anton Ertl@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Sep 2 06:34:13 2025
    Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
    It didn't have enough RAM to justify

    My Athlon 64 only had 1GB of RAM, so an IA-32 distribution would have
    done nicely for it, but I wanted to be able to build and run AMD64
    software.

    - anton
    --
    'Anyone trying for "industrial quality" ISA should avoid undefined behavior.'
    Mitch Alsup, <c17fcd89-f024-40e7-a594-88a85ac10d20o@googlegroups.com>

    --- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Uni (3:633/280.2@fidonet)