• Re: Python

    From Michael F. Stemper@3:633/10 to All on Wed Mar 4 10:32:46 2026
    On 18/12/2025 12.00, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes:
    I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old
    code, I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a
    program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."

    Regrettably, I?ve encountered plenty of comments that don?t actually
    reflect the code (for a variety of reasons).

    If the code is wrong and the comment is right then that?s great, you
    have a nice hint about how to fix the code, assuming you realize there?s
    a problem at all.

    However if the code is right but the comment is wrong then the comment
    is worse than nothing. The code would be improved by removing it
    (although almost certainly improved even more by correcting it).

    I encountered a perverse version of that. My (US) employer was purchased
    by a German firm. We began adapting their code base for NAFTA market requirements. The good news was that every comment was written twice:
    once in German and once in English.

    The bad news? I knew enough German to be able to tell that the two paired comments sometimes disagreed on what was being done or how it was done.

    --
    Michael F. Stemper
    Galatians 3:28


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Wed Mar 4 21:29:30 2026
    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <10o9mre$327a7$3@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 18/12/2025 12.00, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes:
    I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old
    code, I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a
    program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."

    Regrettably, I?ve encountered plenty of comments that don?t actually
    reflect the code (for a variety of reasons).

    If the code is wrong and the comment is right then that?s great, you
    have a nice hint about how to fix the code, assuming you realize there?s >>> a problem at all.

    However if the code is right but the comment is wrong then the comment
    is worse than nothing. The code would be improved by removing it
    (although almost certainly improved even more by correcting it).

    I encountered a perverse version of that. My (US) employer was purchased
    by a German firm. We began adapting their code base for NAFTA market
    requirements. The good news was that every comment was written twice:
    once in German and once in English.

    The bad news? I knew enough German to be able to tell that the two paired
    comments sometimes disagreed on what was being done or how it was done.


    A man with one clock knows what time it is. A man with two is never
    quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Wed Mar 4 20:37:50 2026
    On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 21:29:30 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

    In article <10o9mre$327a7$3@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    I encountered a perverse version of that. My (US) employer was
    purchased by a German firm. We began adapting their code base for
    NAFTA market requirements. The good news was that every comment
    was written twice: once in German and once in English.

    The bad news? I knew enough German to be able to tell that the two
    paired comments sometimes disagreed on what was being done or how
    it was done.

    A man with one clock knows what time it is. A man with two is never
    quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    Fallacious analogy, for sure.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Peter Flass@3:633/10 to All on Wed Mar 4 14:09:58 2026
    On 3/4/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <10o9mre$327a7$3@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 18/12/2025 12.00, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes:
    I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old
    code, I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a
    program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."

    Regrettably, I?ve encountered plenty of comments that don?t actually
    reflect the code (for a variety of reasons).

    If the code is wrong and the comment is right then that?s great, you
    have a nice hint about how to fix the code, assuming you realize
    there?s
    a problem at all.

    However if the code is right but the comment is wrong then the comment >>>> is worse than nothing. The code would be improved by removing it
    (although almost certainly improved even more by correcting it).

    I encountered a perverse version of that. My (US) employer was purchased >>> by a German firm. We began adapting their code base for NAFTA market
    requirements. The good news was that every comment was written twice:
    once in German and once in English.

    The bad news? I knew enough German to be able to tell that the two
    paired
    comments sometimes disagreed on what was being done or how it was done.


    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is never
    quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.


    You would need at least three.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Piergiorgio Sartor@3:633/10 to All on Wed Mar 4 22:14:41 2026
    On 04/03/2026 21.29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    [...]
    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is never
    quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    Well, experimental science would *exactly* agree...

    That's why it provides "uncertainty", together
    with the experimental results.

    bye,

    --

    piergiorgio

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:633/10 to All on Wed Mar 4 22:20:44 2026
    On 04/03/2026 21:14, Piergiorgio Sartor wrote:
    On 04/03/2026 21.29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    [...]
    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is never
    quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    Well, experimental science would *exactly* agree...

    That's why it provides "uncertainty", together
    with the experimental results.

    bye,

    +1.

    --
    ?Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
    a car with the cramped public exposure of ?an airplane.?

    Dennis Miller



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Wed Mar 4 22:35:14 2026
    On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 14:09:58 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

    On 3/4/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    .
    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is
    never quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    You would need at least three.

    Three would be better than two, but two is already enough to come up
    with an error estimate on the measurement.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nuno Silva@3:633/10 to All on Wed Mar 4 23:10:33 2026
    (Hmm, would this (sub?)thread be a good candidate for alt.unix.geeks?
    Leaving Newsgroups: as-is, but I don't subscribe to comp.lang.python.)


    On 2026-03-04, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 14:09:58 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

    On 3/4/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    .
    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is
    never quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    You would need at least three.

    Three would be better than two, but two is already enough to come up
    with an error estimate on the measurement.

    You probably also need to specify some requirements or guarantees as to
    the whereabouts of the three clocks relative to each other, as well as
    their relative speeds, and the placement and speed relative to the
    observers.


    (Oh, and also that any processor used to cruch numbers related to these observations isn't an Intel Pentium.)

    --
    Nuno Silva

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From c186282@3:633/10 to All on Wed Mar 4 20:30:14 2026
    On 3/4/26 17:35, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 14:09:58 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

    On 3/4/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    .
    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is
    never quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    You would need at least three.

    Three would be better than two, but two is already enough to come up
    with an error estimate on the measurement.

    The rate at which time passes is dependent on
    the amount of mass/gravity/energy where the
    clock is located. That depends on the Earth,
    what's under it, the moon, the sun, the planets,
    nearby galaxies for that matter. As such if you
    have even two clocks, with enough decimal points,
    even on the same shelf they WILL start to diverge.

    Hmm ... now how the two clocks affect each OTHER,
    that could be interesting :-)


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charlie Gibbs@3:633/10 to All on Thu Mar 5 02:44:15 2026
    On 2026-03-04, Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:

    On 3/4/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is never
    quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    You would need at least three.

    Hence the old mariners' saying that I once heard:
    Never put to sea with two chronometers. Always take one or three.

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
    \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
    / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Peter Flass@3:633/10 to All on Wed Mar 4 20:13:28 2026
    On 3/4/26 15:35, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 14:09:58 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

    On 3/4/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    .
    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is
    never quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    You would need at least three.

    Three would be better than two, but two is already enough to come up
    with an error estimate on the measurement.

    No, because if two don't agree, one could be just plain wrong. The Space Shuttle system had three processors run the same computation as a check.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Mar 5 03:49:59 2026
    On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 20:13:28 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

    On 3/4/26 15:35, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 14:09:58 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

    On 3/4/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    .
    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is
    never quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    You would need at least three.

    Three would be better than two, but two is already enough to come
    up with an error estimate on the measurement.

    No, because if two don't agree, one could be just plain wrong. The
    Space Shuttle system had three processors run the same computation
    as a check.

    You?re conflating taking a measurement with making a command decision.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Mar 5 03:50:40 2026
    On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 02:44:15 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    On 2026-03-04, Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:

    On 3/4/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is
    never quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    You would need at least three.

    Hence the old mariners' saying that I once heard: Never put to sea
    with two chronometers. Always take one or three.

    Any scientist would tell you why that?s a load of nonsense.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charlie Gibbs@3:633/10 to All on Thu Mar 5 17:42:44 2026
    On 2026-03-05, Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:

    On 3/4/26 15:35, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 14:09:58 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

    On 3/4/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    .
    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is
    never quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    You would need at least three.

    Three would be better than two, but two is already enough to come up
    with an error estimate on the measurement.

    No, because if two don't agree, one could be just plain wrong. The Space Shuttle system had three processors run the same computation as a check.

    And, IIRC, the third one was built and programmed by a different outfit.

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
    \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
    / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Carlos E.R.@3:633/10 to All on Thu Mar 5 20:02:57 2026
    On 2026-03-05 18:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-05, Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:

    On 3/4/26 15:35, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 14:09:58 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

    On 3/4/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    .
    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is
    never quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    You would need at least three.

    Three would be better than two, but two is already enough to come up
    with an error estimate on the measurement.

    No, because if two don't agree, one could be just plain wrong. The Space
    Shuttle system had three processors run the same computation as a check.

    And, IIRC, the third one was built and programmed by a different outfit.

    Different software? That one I did not know.




    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES??, EU??;

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From c186282@3:633/10 to All on Thu Mar 5 14:42:48 2026
    On 3/5/26 14:02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-03-05 18:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-05, Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:

    On 3/4/26 15:35, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 14:09:58 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

    On 3/4/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    .
    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is
    never quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    You would need at least three.

    Three would be better than two, but two is already enough to come up
    with an error estimate on the measurement.

    No, because if two don't agree, one could be just plain wrong. The Space >>> Shuttle system had three processors run the same computation as a check.

    And, IIRC, the third one was built and programmed by a different outfit.

    Different software? That one I did not know.


    Just means it'll be wrong for different reasons :-)

    You can have 100 clocks, and they'll all drift away from
    each other for various reasons. As per Einstein, the rate
    of time passage varies from place to place, moment to
    moment. Then there are the usual probs with 'clocks'.

    Which of the 100 clocks is correct ? Correct relative
    to what ? Maybe they're all skewed and screwed.

    Our ability to measure VERY fine bits of time has
    revealed our inability to measure time - funny !


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nuno Silva@3:633/10 to All on Fri Mar 6 00:12:35 2026
    On 2026-03-05, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-05 18:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
    On 2026-03-05, Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:

    On 3/4/26 15:35, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Wed, 4 Mar 2026 14:09:58 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

    On 3/4/26 13:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2026-03-04 21:01, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    .
    A man with one clock knows what time it is.ÿ A man with two is
    never quite sure...

    Experimental science would not agree.

    You would need at least three.

    Three would be better than two, but two is already enough to come up
    with an error estimate on the measurement.

    No, because if two don't agree, one could be just plain wrong. The Space >>> Shuttle system had three processors run the same computation as a check.

    And, IIRC, the third one was built and programmed by a different outfit.

    Different software? That one I did not know.

    Five computers, not three. General Purpose Computers, GPCs. Was it "IBM AP-101/S"? Four of them run the Primary Avionics Software System, PASS.

    One of the five computers is selected to run the Backup Flight System,
    BFS, which was indeed contracted to a different manufacturer and
    designed independently of PASS, on purpose.

    The OV avionics are described as FO/FS, Fail Operational / Fail Safe. If
    there is disagreement or fluctuation, you can do e.g. majority vote. If
    one is deemed bad, the same is still possible with the remaining three
    (hence the "Fail Operational"). Then if a second one fails, you can't
    use the nominal approach anymore.

    --
    Nuno Silva

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bob Eager@3:633/10 to All on Fri Mar 6 09:02:08 2026
    On Fri, 06 Mar 2026 00:12:35 +0000, Nuno Silva wrote:

    Five computers, not three. General Purpose Computers, GPCs. Was it "IBM AP-101/S"? Four of them run the Primary Avionics Software System, PASS.

    I had to double take when I saw the initialism! I have spent a lot of this week immersed in an details of an old computer system which used General Peripheral Controllers.

    --
    Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

    Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
    http://www.mirrorservice.org

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.12
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)