On 10 May 23 13:26:34, George Pope said the following to August Abolins:

Ouch. In Richmond, here, it's illegal to provide plastic bags at checkout
free or for-fee.

When I was a little boy I remember the grocery stores switched from paper to plastic because of the trees... Oh we just have to save the trees. Save the trees, save the forest, which eventually became save the rainforest.
What a bunch of liberal hippie nonsense. All of it.

Well. we kind of do need the rain forests -- that's the lungs of the planet -- dunno about you but I like breathing our atmosphere, running about 21% Oxygen in the mixture. . .

The plastic bags issue is not one of pollution, as they don't alter the environment, they only add to it -- & some people have deemed a 1,000-year decomposition to be bad (it's UGLY!)

How do we know that Nature didn't evolve man explicitly to create plastic & fill the landscape with it? This is a facetious argument made by George Carlin, but I find it a reasonable question to ask the so-called eco know-it-alls.

Ooh, there's a giant island of plastic in the ocean!

So what? The ecosystem has adapted to it just fine -- removing the island in a clean-up will result in the deaths of thousands of creatures who now call it home.

Maybe humans need to STFU and realize that the world doesn't give a {Senatorial opinion} about humans -- we're just one more partially evolved creature that she made. . .

What will be will be, & so what -- I'm all for actions that directly reflect on self-preservation (such as stopping the corporations who are clear-cutting Brazil for the benefit of a scarce 0.01%'s gain, at the expense of everyone else.)

I'm quite happy eating Canadian-grown food & breathing the universal atmosphere before vested interests fleep it up for everyone else, while they live in sealed environments. (I only want to know: are these places flammable? or otherwise breachable? We could get military explosives if we needed them.)

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

I re-used plastic bags i got for free or for 5c at least once -- as a garbage >> ag -- perfect size for tossing garbage down an apartment's trash chute (must >> tied into a bag to use the chute)

Provided they don't come with pre-existing holes in them, they are the perfect size for many non-kitchen waste baskets. That is what I reuse them for.

Exactly. Why should I buy a pack of plastic garbage just to throw the packaging & bags away in the end? The grocery bag has already served one good use (I like to re-use non-recyclables for at least two purposes)

Our family of 4 is down to a single garbage bag into the dumpster per week, down from 4-6 before we started separating & composting. . .

Sometimes I even re-used them for shopping, instead of buying a bag. . .

A local mom-and-pop does that. People bring in their used plastic bags and he reuses them.

One of our charity thrifty stores does this -- provides donated bags to those who don't have one (saves buying a pack of commercial ones out of the funds raised); I always carry a bunch of solid cloth bags with me.

Only one store did it right; Kin's Farm Markets gave free bags, but if you

se

your own, they donated 5c to an eco charity.

Sounds like a good plan.
I was working in retail in the 1980's when they started moving from paper
to plastic. It was "for the environment" back then also... to "Save the Trees!" So not every environmental idea turns out to be a good one a generation or so later.

It's like sex: each new generation thinks they invented it & they do it best.

I never considered plastic grocery bags to be a problem, nor plastic straws (one picture of a turtle with a straw bent into its mouth 7 nose & the interworld goes CRAZY!)

How do we know some kid didn't deliberately put that straw like that?

A better solution to the problem of plastic litter is to put a 25c refundable deposit on everything plastic & disposable.

I got no beef with litter so much as with pollution.

If you toss an apple core, sure it looks tacky, to have garage strewn in your neighbourhood, but that core will be absorbed by the natural ecosystem quickly enough. I tend to toss mine under a bush so it's not openly offensive, & the little critters can get to it & enjoy it. . . when it rains, it'll rot & provide fertilizer to the bish's roots.

If you pour used motor oil into a sewer drain that flows directly into the river or ocean, that's fleeping up the environment for all -- I don't want oil stuck to my salmon nor any plant or animal population I like to eat being poisoned.

If people spit, I don't care either, bt prefer if they spit away from where kids might walk, or wheelchairs might have to roll through it. That's just common courtesy, people! I'm capable of re-absorbing any saliva my body produces, & not worrying about where to loose it that won't be gross or offensive. As a kid I don't care, but I'm evolving daily. . .

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello George!
** On Wednesday 10.05.23 - 13:26, you wrote to me:

I didn't like paying 5c for a bag either -- I just dropped
$40 on your store's wares, & you can't include a 5c bag
for free?!

I already offer 10-40% discounts across my product line all the
time. Anything over 40% discount is a loss in my industry.
I've been doing this for over 10 years now. There is an
expectation by the consumer to pay for plastic bags now, so I
am willing to oblige to that I can at least break even with the
bag expenses. ;)

I didn't mean you personally -- I'm more referring to the big corporates, like Safeway or Shoppers Drug Mart

Only one store did it right; Kin's Farm Markets gave free
bags, but if you used your own, they donated 5c to an eco
charity.

I contribute to the community in other ways that exceed 5c per
bag ever would.

Fair enough! I can see your POV in charging the 5c -- I think it'd be nice to write this up in a nice little opster to hang on the wall near the cash register. Maybe include a little chart showing average discount per item or per sale then compare to the cost of supplying a free bag. (costs include a portion of all overhead, obviously, to give people this opportunity not to be sucked into the corporate bookselling machine, to have the personalized service options you provide (I'll bet money you look for individually requested books?)


--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Ooh, there's a giant island of plastic in the ocean!

Is there?

Where are the photos?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Ooh, there's a giant island of plastic in the ocean!

Is there?

Where are the photos?

This story is from 2019.

https://chiletoday.cl/floating-garbage-patches-grow-in-the-pacific-ocean/

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Alan,

Ooh, there's a giant island of plastic in the ocean!

Is there?

Where are the photos?

This story is from 2019.

https://chiletoday.cl/floating-garbage-patches-grow-in-the-pacific-ocean/

Pls do not change the subject ... the mention was "a giant island of plastic in the ocean" ... but you are now mentioning "garbage patches".

So show me some photos of a "giant island of plastic" ... No photo? No NASA imagery? Sorry Alan, didn't happen ... no island.

And I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about after a lifetime of environmental protecion (OK, OK ... 51 years now) working for UNEP (UN Environmental Programme), the European Environmental Bureau, Greenpeace, the International Water Tribunal and others ...

I am aware of large trash heaps for example at Bohuslan on the Swedish coast where I helped remove a roughly 3 meter layer of compacted plastics of all kinds of sources ... There are photos of that trash heap ... but there is no "giant island of plastic garbage" in the ocean. That "island" has become an urban legend, told over and over again to such an extent it is even mentioned in scientific publications but without proof.

Let me share with you another story ... with the Dublin Bay Environment Group (Ireland) we had annual campaigns of cleaning the beaches there by picking up used condoms and plastic backs of women's sanitary pads. The church was very powerful and the use of condoms was frowned upon, so after use they were flushed through the toilet in order to leave no trace. We collected all that in a hazaqrd-free way and it was recycled into benches which were placed throughout town ... I never sat on a plastic Irish bench anymore.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Where are the photos?

This story is from 2019.

https://chiletoday.cl/floating-garbage-patches-grow-in-the-pacific-ocean/

Pls do not change the subject ... the mention was "a giant island of plastic in the ocean" ... but you are now mentioning "garbage patches".

I am not changing the subject.

You asked for a picture (there is more, if you care look it up) and I gave you a story to look at that included a picture.

I'm sorry that garbage patch isn't what you were looking for!

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

BY: Ward Dossche (2:292/854)

Is there?

Where are the photos?

\%/@rd

Oh, it's there. I've seen the photos. It might not be an 'actual' soil-based island, with a living population of humans on top, nor does it have an authentic island name, but it's pretty darn big.

<< Please put silly arguments HERE >>


Mick Manning

-- The Blues had a child and they called it Rock and Roll

--- WWIV 5.8.0.3685[Windows]
* Origin: Central Ontario Remote WWIV (1:229/308)

Alan,

You asked for a picture (there is more, if you care look it up) and I
gave you a story to look at that included a picture.

I'm sorry that garbage patch isn't what you were looking for!

I am aware of the "Chile Today" publication but the photo there has got nothing to do with a mid-ocean plastic waste island which has now been reduced to the well known patch or vortex. Look at the horizon of the photo, it's even in-shore and in Japan after the 2011 Tsunami there. It's not even established it's major plastic debris (not waste, that's different) or something else.

The reality is it cannot be photographed. You could be in your boat, sail through it and not even notice it, catch fish for food.

It doesn't mean it isn't there, it means there is no trash island to photograph, there even is no trash patch photos in existance. Not in "Nature", not in "National Geographic", not in "NASA immagery".

Photos being used by "Ocean Cleanup", the non-profit started by Dutch college drop-out Boyan Slat, were staged on deck of a Maersk vessel.

The plastic waste problem cannot be solved if it is not tackled at the source, and the source is a stretch from the Indian peninsula comprising the coasts of the whole of SE Asia where waste is simply dumped in rivers by garbage trucks. North America is not the problem, South America is not the problem, Europe is not the problem ... Mainland Asia is. And no issuing plastic bags at our supermarkets is not going to solve a thing, it's not the source of the problem ... the source of the problem is elsewhere. When supermarkets issue no longer plastic bags, it's not out of environmental concern, but to cut costs...while at the same time they use thin-film packaging for foods which is considered OK...

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)