"LCBO to permanently ditch paper bags as of Sept. 5"

What's wrong with paper?
Will they phase out bottles as well? Bring your own. :D



--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On 11 Aug 23 08:54:50, August Abolins said the following to All:

"LCBO to permanently ditch paper bags as of Sept. 5"

What's wrong with paper?
Will they phase out bottles as well? Bring your own. :D

The same modern liberal and environmentalist idiots who tell us all to "trust the science" but cannot decide what a woman is.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

"LCBO to permanently ditch paper bags as of Sept. 5"

What's wrong with paper?
Will they phase out bottles as well? Bring your own. :D

The same modern liberal and environmentalist idiots who tell us all to "trust the science" but cannot decide what a woman is.

They're bringing back the paper bags here ...

Nothing wrong with 'm...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hello Nick!

"LCBO to permanently ditch paper bags as of Sept. 5"

What's wrong with paper?
Will they phase out bottles as well? Bring your own. :D

The same modern liberal and environmentalist idiots who
tell us all to "trust the science" but cannot decide what
a woman is.

Seems really odd to go "resuable bags" and completely stop
using paper. Most shops in my area have introduced the
paperbag in place of the plastic ones. As far as I know, the
reusable ones aren't even recyclable.

The statement from the LCBO included: "The Crown corporation
says move will divert some 2,665 tonnes of waste from
landfills"

But.. why do they think that paper bags suddenly WON'T make it
to landfill like the rest of paper products the population
recycles?

Further.. "Customers are encouraged to bring their own reusable
bag when shopping in-store, and alternatively, may purchase a
reusable bag," the Crown corporation said in a news release
Tuesday.

Sounds like they just want to introduce another revenue stream
with the bag purchases. Perhaps Ford has friends or himself
invested in the company with the resuable bag contract.

Anyway.. seems odd to suddenly diss paper as a less sustainable
solution!

"This initiative will help to minimize our impact on the
environment and create a more sustainable Ontario."

"Boxes and eight-pack carriers for cans and small bottles will
still be available for free, the release noted.



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--- OpenXP 5.0.57
* Origin: Stare into this point intently ->.<- (1:153/757.21)

Seems really odd to go "resuable bags" and completely stop
using paper. Most shops in my area have introduced the
paperbag in place of the plastic ones. As far as I know, the
reusable ones aren't even recyclable.

The statement from the LCBO included: "The Crown corporation
says move will divert some 2,665 tonnes of waste from
landfills"

In theory, recyclable bags shouldn't go to the landfill. They are probably using that many tonnes of paper bags a year and so are using that number without any real idea how many don't get recycled.

But.. why do they think that paper bags suddenly WON'T make it
to landfill like the rest of paper products the population
recycles?

Because they will quit giving them out and probably don't really know how
many go to the landfill vs. the recycling centers.

Sounds like they just want to introduce another revenue stream
with the bag purchases. Perhaps Ford has friends or himself
invested in the company with the resuable bag contract.

Exactly.

"This initiative will help to minimize our impact on the
environment and create a more sustainable Ontario."

"Boxes and eight-pack carriers for cans and small bottles will
still be available for free, the release noted.

And those don't go to the landfill? I does indeed sound like a new revenue stream, but only a temporary one.

Mike


* SLMR 2.1a * Give me chastity and continence, but not just now.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

In theory, recyclable bags shouldn't go to the landfill. They are
probably
using that many tonnes of paper bags a year and so are using that number without any real idea how many don't get recycled.

It is amazing how, in a modern country such as Canada, landfill still is a considered a viable end-solution.

Many know I live in Belgium, there is "no" landfill anymore here, there is no space for it. So there are other solutions needed for the general household garbage which cannot be recycled and has no other end-of-life options ... incineration ...

As most of that garbage has a too low caloric value for incineration, energy needs to be added in the form of gas and ... the paper and the plastic from shopping bags.

Landfill is a very irresponsible way of waste management ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hello Ward!

** On Saturday 12.08.23 - 20:49, Ward Dossche wrote to Mike Powell:

It is amazing how, in a modern country such as Canada,
landfill still is a considered a viable end-solution.

Canada is immense with its plentitude of land, and that is
probably why landfills have been maintained as the defacto
standard for disposing waste. Before plastics and electronic
turned up, this was probably a perfectly fine solution.

Today, a lot more planning goes into suitable landfill sites.
They look for areas of least impact to watersheds/watertables.
They might even excavate the soils and gravels as road building
materials and dedicate the pits for garbage fill.

Many know I live in Belgium, there is "no" landfill
anymore here, there is no space for it. So there are other
solutions needed for the general household garbage which
cannot be recycled and has no other end-of-life options
... incineration ...

Great. Belgium, one source contributor to global warming! :D

As most of that garbage has a too low caloric value for
incineration, energy needs to be added in the form of gas
and ... the paper and the plastic from shopping bags.

Modern day manufactured materials is a far cry from the simpler
materials a couple hundred years ago.

Landfill is a very irresponsible way of waste management ...

Building a lot of incernation plants, especially near by
populated areas, would cry public opposition.

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--- OpenXP 5.0.57
* Origin: Age Doesn't Matter Unless You're a Cheese (1:396/45.29)

Hello Ward!

** On Saturday 12.08.23 - 10:52, Ward Dossche wrote to Nick Andre:

They're bringing back the paper bags here ...

Nothing wrong with 'm...

It just seems like a very strange move for a bisiness to ditch
paper, indeed.

Recently, I've ordered my first ever hundreds of dollars worth
of grocery bags that feature twine-like handles. I hate the
expense, but some customers appreciate it. The bags are quite
plain but they average 25cents per.

The reusables (fabric-like) are even more expensive, but I
don't see people reusing them much in general. They're probaly
accumulating in people's homes or cars until they get too many
to bother with and then chuck them in the garbage/landfill.

I don't see too many people bringing along a spare bag of any
kind for their non-grocery shopping - especially guys.

For men, a side pocket for a folded bag built into a baseball
cap might encourage having a bag along at most times. Or,
bring back the fanny pack for having essentials along.

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--- OpenXP 5.0.57
* Origin: Age Doesn't Matter Unless You're a Cheese (1:396/45.29)

The reusables (fabric-like) are even more expensive, but I
don't see people reusing them much in general. They're probaly
accumulating in people's homes or cars until they get too many
to bother with and then chuck them in the garbage/landfill.

My wife and daughters are masters at this ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Many know I live in Belgium, there is "no" landfill anymore here, there is no ace for it. So there are other solutions needed for the general household garb
e which cannot be recycled and has no other end-of-life options ... incinerati
...

As most of that garbage has a too low caloric value for incineration, energy n
ds to be added in the form of gas and ... the paper and the plastic from shopp
g bags.

Landfill is a very irresponsible way of waste management ...

I have wondered why we don't incinerate more, but I think it has to do with
the potential air pollution and no one wanting to live near one. I would
think it possible to maybe even generate a little power from the act of incinerating but, as you point out, a lot of what would go in the
incinerator does not burn well.

Mike

* SLMR 2.1a * It was all so different before everything changed.
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Hello Mike,

I have wondered why we don't incinerate more, but I think it has to do
with
the potential air pollution and no one wanting to live near one. I would think it possible to maybe even generate a little power from the act of incinerating but, as you point out, a lot of what would go in the incinerator does not burn well.

The potential air pollution from a domestic waste incinerator is a hoax.

It is proven everywhere that such an operation can be run clean. The output from the ncineration, the ash, is used in construction and roadbuilding. The heat here is used for steam production and running a power generator.

I think the main reason to not incinerate in Canada and the USA is the cost, landfill is shortterm cheaper and incineration will drive-up the cost, i.e. tax increase. Fear for pollution is the excuse.

That was solved here by providing several coloured garbage containers to the people:

* Yellow for paper waste = free
* Green for foodscraps/-waste = one lump sum a year, I think 30 Euro 40CAD$
* Black for general waste = is weighed and charged by the kilo (and it is
remarkable how quickly one learns to reduce that amount...)

There are big blue bags for recyclable plastic bottles, drink cans, food packaging, shrinkwrap = for sale in stores, real cheap

There's a separate collection for woods; also for large pieces which do not fit in a container.

So certain fractions are free (the ones that can generate an income for the municipality), the otherones you pay per the weight/volume that you discard.

There's also a separate free collection for dangerous goods, kitchen oils, printer cassettes, batteries plus a lot more.

After an initial start-up period this system now functions really well and municipal taxes have not increased. So it generates money.

It always pained me when flying into Salt Lake City (I know, USA) on an inbound approach from the east and landing to the north you are vectored past 2 valleys where there are humongous mounds of waste in landfills, out of view when on the ground. I've seen the same in Montana and people really horrified me there because for example cadmium batteries just go with the rest of the waste into landfill.

Is that the same in Canada?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hello Ward!

** On Sunday 13.08.23 - 20:35, you wrote to Mike Powell:

I think the main reason to not incinerate in Canada and the USA is the cost, landfill is shortterm cheaper and incineration will drive-up the cost, i.e. tax increase. Fear for pollution is the excuse.

Your thought is most likely correct.

There are big blue bags for..
There's a separate collection for woods..
So certain fractions are free..
There's also a separate free collection for dangerous goods..

Is that the same in Canada?

Can't speak for the other provinces, but for Ontario most of
that is in place too.

The municipalities offer to receive expired batteries at no
cost.
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--- OpenXP 5.0.57
* Origin: Stare into this point intently ->.<- (1:153/757.21)

August,

The municipalities offer to receive expired batteries at no
cost.

There shouldn't be a cost ... they make money off of it..

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

The potential air pollution from a domestic waste incinerator is a hoax.

It is proven everywhere that such an operation can be run clean. The output f

> the ncineration, the ash, is used in construction and roadbuilding. The heat
>re is used for steam production and running a power generator.

I think the main reason to not incinerate in Canada and the USA is the cost,

>dfill is shortterm cheaper and incineration will drive-up the cost, i.e. tax
>rease. Fear for pollution is the excuse.

It's possible, if expensive, to incinerate things without causing immediate noticable pollution, but the hidden part is in anything you burn, you are instantly releasing all the carbon built up in those materials and that's of major concern these days, Re: Climate Change..

(This would be the government position, not necessarily mine.)

That said, although it's obviously not a hoax, Climate change happens all the time. The world has spent a huge percentage of history with a world average temperature Higher than it is now. We may actually be going through a climate 'correction' rather than Global Warming. If we are having the tiniest impact
on that, it is slight compared to the sun has done every few thousand years. IOW, we may be able to slow or speed the change by a few decades but the last time we had global warming (4000 years ago) it lasted for 3000 years so the 'change' is only going to bother those alive today. Future generations will have to get used to it.

That was solved here by providing several coloured garbage containers to

>the people:

* Yellow for paper waste = free

>* Green for foodscraps/-waste = one lump sum a year, I think 30 Euro 40CAD$
>* Black for general waste = is weighed and charged by the kilo (and it is
> remarkable how quickly one learns to reduce that amount...)

Where I am we have recycle boxes, one for Plastics and metals and another for paper products. Regular garbage is separate and only costs extra if you have a huge amount of it. Paid for with taxes obviously but somewhat controled.

Personally, I create a small plastic shopping bag of garbage every 2 weeks. Everything else is either composted or recycled.
I use that as an example of what most people will know the size of.
What I really use is the outer bag that 3 bags (4 Litres) of milk come in, which is actually somewhat smaller.

We pay to get rid of building materials, wood and shingles and such, and trailer or truck loads of any type of trash.. the bigger stuff.

I'm in Canada, central Ontario, BTW. The tagline won't reflect that.

---
* SLMR Rob * A shipment goes by car but a cargo goes by ship
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Hello Rob!

** On Tuesday 15.08.23 - 00:52, you wrote:

-+-
* SLMR Rob * A shipment goes by car but a cargo goes by ship

That's a Steve Wright-ism isn't it? Reminds me of:

[1] People drive in parkways and park in driveways.

[2] Why are they called apartments when they are stuck
together?

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.57
* Origin: Stare into this point intently ->.<- (1:153/757.21)