Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for
the extension WHL or is it really a name?

Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
with pip ready to run. I had to say

python -m ensurepip

and then I saw that a pip on a whl-package was installed. Why doesn't
the official distribution make pip ready to run by default? Thank you!

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote or quoted:

Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for
the extension WHL or is it really a name?

PyPi in its initial state was named "cheese shop", as the famous
part in the show "Monty Python Cheese Shop". Because initially it
only hosted links to the packages, so it was empty like that shop.
And within a cheese shop what do you store? Wheels of cheese.

Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
with pip ready to run. I had to say

Some Python distributions do not come with pip pre-installed
because they have their own package management systems.

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Stefan Ram (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote or quoted:

Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
with pip ready to run. I had to say

Some Python distributions do not come with pip pre-installed
because they have their own package management systems.

Here's a small digest, created with Python:

|Many if not most Linux distributions do not include pip by default.
....
|On systems based on Debian, you can install pip with:
|sudo apt install python3- pip
|On others, you will have to look around in the package manager or search
|on line.
Thomas Passin on 2023-05-12 in "comp.lang.python.mbox",
Subject: pip module not found

|get things working on Linux. Ubuntu, like many other Linux distros,
|does not come with pip and Tk (needed for Idle) installed, and it's not
|so obvious how to install them.
Thomas Passin on 2023-05-15 in "comp.lang.python.mbox",
Subject: PythonPath / sys.path

|if you use the distro's package manager to install Python packages
|instead of using pip. If there is no distro package, you're usually
|also better off using 'pip install --user' so that pip isn't messing
|about with directories that are normally managed by the distro's
|package manager.
Grant Edwards on 2023-05-19 in "comp.lang.python.mbox",
Subject: Tkinter (related)

|Also make sure you're using a pip that matches your Python.
|It's usuallysafer if you invoke it as:
|python -m pip install --upgrade pip
|(or whatever the precise name of your Python 2 interpreter actually is)
Mats Wichmann on 2023-09-27 in "comp.lang.python.mbox",
Subject: upgrade of pip on my python 2.7 version

|If you were using a Linux distro, you probably don't want to mess with
|the "system pip" which is usually set up to understand details of how
|that distro's Python is packaged. It looks like you're on Windows by
|the paths in your original message, so that should be okay.
Mats Wichmann on 2023-09-27 in "comp.lang.python.mbox",
Subject: upgrade of pip on my python 2.7 version

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
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ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:

Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote or quoted:

Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for >>the extension WHL or is it really a name?

PyPi in its initial state was named "cheese shop", as the famous
part in the show "Monty Python Cheese Shop". Because initially it
only hosted links to the packages, so it was empty like that shop.
And within a cheese shop what do you store? Wheels of cheese.

Lol! Loved it. (Thanks very much.)

Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
with pip ready to run. I had to say

Some Python distributions do not come with pip pre-installed
because they have their own package management systems.

But this was a Windows install. I don't think Windows has its own
package management for Python packages. I'd be totally surprised.

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

I believe that the name "Wheel" was a reference to "reinventing the
wheel". But I cannot find a quote to support this claim. I think the
general sentiment was that it was the second attempt by the Python
community to come up with a packaging format (first being Egg), and so
they were reinventing the wheel, in a way.

I cannot speak to the other question though: I don't know. This is
however also a common practice on Linux, where Python is often
installed in order to enable system tools, which, in turn, don't need
a Python package manager to function. Not sure why this would be the
case in MS Windows.

On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 4:51=E2=80=AFPM Johanne Fairchild via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:

Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for
the extension WHL or is it really a name?

Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
with pip ready to run. I had to say

python -m ensurepip

and then I saw that a pip on a whl-package was installed. Why doesn't
the official distribution make pip ready to run by default? Thank you!
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote or quoted: >ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:

Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote or quoted:

Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for >>>the extension WHL or is it really a name?

PyPi in its initial state was named "cheese shop", as the famous
part in the show "Monty Python Cheese Shop". Because initially it
only hosted links to the packages, so it was empty like that shop.
And within a cheese shop what do you store? Wheels of cheese.

Lol! Loved it. (Thanks very much.)

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come >>>with pip ready to run. I had to say

Some Python distributions do not come with pip pre-installed
because they have their own package management systems.

But this was a Windows install. I don't think Windows has its own
package management for Python packages. I'd be totally surprised.

I install Python from

www.python.org/downloads/windows/

. Some versions of the installer have "[ ] Install launcher for
all users (recommended)"; when this is not checked, one sometimes
does not need admin rights. Some versions of the installer have
"[V] Add Python to PATH". If this is not checked, it's possible
that pip is installed, but not on the path, so it might not be
callable easily from the command line, and the command "python"
then sometimes brings up a different Python than installed. (On
Windows, one can use "py" to call Python on the command line.)

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Stefan Ram (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On 2024-03-21 11:36, Johanne Fairchild via Python-list wrote:

Why is a whl-package called a ``wheel''? Is it just a pronunciation for
the extension WHL or is it really a name?

Also, it seems that when I install Python on Windows, it doesn't come
with pip ready to run. I had to say

python -m ensurepip

and then I saw that a pip on a whl-package was installed. Why doesn't
the official distribution make pip ready to run by default? Thank you!

When I install Python on Windows, I always get pip by default, although
it might not be on the system search path.

As it's recommended to use the Python Launcher py on Windows, I use that instead:

py -m pip install something

because it gives better support if you have multiple versions of Python installed.

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On 2024-03-21, MRAB via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:

As it's recommended to use the Python Launcher py on Windows, I use
that instead:

py -m pip install something

because it gives better support if you have multiple versions of
Python installed.

I adopted that practice years ago on Linux as well after wasting what
seemed like most of a day trying to figure out problems which turned
out to be caused by the fact that "pip" and "python" invoked different
versions of Python.

--- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
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On 3/21/2024 4:19 PM, Grant Edwards via Python-list wrote:

On 2024-03-21, MRAB via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:

As it's recommended to use the Python Launcher py on Windows, I use
that instead:

py -m pip install something

because it gives better support if you have multiple versions of
Python installed.

I adopted that practice years ago on Linux as well after wasting what
seemed like most of a day trying to figure out problems which turned
out to be caused by the fact that "pip" and "python" invoked different versions of Python.

Although you still need to be aware that there might be a different
Python installation between e.g. "python3 -m pip" and "python3.11 -m
pip", etc. depending on what's been installed.


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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------oy852LfZlPiWQZ6UleTMnSlO";
protected-headers="v1"
From: Thomas Schweikle <tschweikle@bfs.de>
To: python-list@python.org
Message-ID: <3a12cefe-2a92-4444-a800-7446164e993d@bfs.de>
Subject: Re: the name ``wheel''
References: <87plvnakay.fsf@tudado.org>
<Python-20240321125742@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> <87frwj8o1p.fsf@tudado.org> In-Reply-To: <87frwj8o1p.fsf@tudado.org>

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=EF=BB=BF

On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:25, Gilmeh Serda via Python-list <python-list@python=

..org> wrote:

=20

Many if not most Linux distributions do not include pip by default.

=20
Really? It came with Manjaro.

Debian and Ubuntu require you to install pip as a separate package.
Also puts venv in its own package.

Fedora leaves all the batteries intact and rhel I assume.

Barry






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On 3/22/24 11:45, Barry via Python-list wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
=20

On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:25, Gilmeh Serda via Python-list <python-list@py= thon.org> wrote:

Many if not most Linux distributions do not include pip by default.

Really? It came with Manjaro.

=20
Debian and Ubuntu require you to install pip as a separate package.
Also puts venv in its own package.
=20
Fedora leaves all the batteries intact and rhel I assume.

pip is still a separate package in the .rpm world. which makes sense on=20
a couple of levels:

* pip releases on its own cycle, you wouldn't want to have to *force* a=20
new release of python + python-libs + python-devel + maybe others, if=20
you happened want to rev pip forward independently.

* in a distro-packaged world, that's the primary place you get your=20
Python packages from, and pip isn't seen as being as necessary, and=20 potentially even as destructive. How many times have you seen an article=20 that suggests you "sudo pip install randompackage"? Many distro setups=20
now disallow installing like that. If you know what you're doing, and=20 particularly if you're happy to control a specific environment by=20
setting up a virtualenv, then fine, you'll still have access to=20
everything you need.

anyway, I seem to recall the original message (which I've since deleted)=20
was asking about Windows anyway. There it's quite unusual to end up=20
without pip, but not so unusual to end up without the *command* named=20
pip - search path things, and all that. Usually if you "py -m pip=20
--version" you'll see it's actually installed, just not accessible using=20
the current search path.




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On 22 Mar 2024, at 20:28, Mats Wichmann via Python-list <python-list@pytho=

n.org> wrote:

=20
pip is still a separate package in the .rpm world. which makes sense on a c=

ouple of levels:

Yes it=E2=80=99s a separate package, but it=E2=80=99s always installed. At l= east on Fedora.
I agree it makes sense to package it separately, which is inline with Fedora= =E2=80=99s
policy of not vendoring code into a package.

Barry



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