From what I saw, for a beginner's approach, python is easier than Java
or C++. Now when one starts to use python in the real life, the
complexity of python appears. Because that's the python way: things
works except when they stop to work.
Like, it's not a typed language but start playing with dictionaries
without declaring your variables first to see how the claims stand
before the facts.
And I'm not speaking about the dependencies. Each version breaks
everything ...
... so well that now some distros don't let you install
libraries with pip if you are not in a virtual environment.
So, yes to do something simple, python is fast and easy. But if you
want to power of C++ and Java, you can't use python on a simple way.
I started puttering with Python once - maybe I should take another
look at it.
In this case python is a strongly typed language and in other cases
it's not that important.
With some typed languages, you can't use a variable if you didn't
declare it's type before. With python, you don't need to declare
integers and strings but you need to declare dictionaries. Why? Don't
know.
On 17 Oct 2026 09:43:01 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
From what I saw, for a beginner's approach, python is easier than Java
or C++. Now when one starts to use python in the real life, the
complexity of python appears. Because that's the python way: things
works except when they stop to work.
I haven?t encountered that. I have written some reasonably substantial
Python code -- would this one <https://gitlab.com/ldo/qahirah> count?
That?s over 8500 lines. And this <https://gitlab.com/ldo/dbussy>
consists of 2 modules totalling over 10,000 lines.
Like, it's not a typed language but start playing with dictionaries
without declaring your variables first to see how the claims stand
before the facts.
It is true you can make typos with misspelling variable names, because assignment to a name the compiler hasn?t seen before causes the implicit creation of a new variable.
One thing that helps limit the damage from this is the scoping rules.
For example, you can reference a global variable from an inner scope
without having to declare it global; but you can?t assign to it from
that scope unless you explicitly declare it ?global?.
And I'm not speaking about the dependencies. Each version breaks
everything ...
Backward compatibility tends to be pretty good. Yes, some ancient
library modules do get deprecated -- still want to use the CGI
toolbox, or access Sun audio files??
... so well that now some distros don't let you install
libraries with pip if you are not in a virtual environment.
Do other languages get away with allowing you to override standard
system libraries without breaking things?
Maybe the issue is, Python has achieved a degree of popularity way
beyond anything those earlier languages could have managed, to the
point where critical system components have now become dependent on
it.
So, yes to do something simple, python is fast and easy. But if you
want to power of C++ and Java, you can't use python on a simple way.
Python can do things as complex as anything you might want to do in
C++ or Java, with much less code. For a real-world example, look at
how you would set up a TLS/SSL encrypted connection in Java, versus
doing it in Python.
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On 17 Oct 2026 09:43:01 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
From what I saw, for a beginner's approach, python is easier than Java
or C++. Now when one starts to use python in the real life, the
complexity of python appears. Because that's the python way: things
works except when they stop to work.
I haven?t encountered that. I have written some reasonably substantial
Python code -- would this one <https://gitlab.com/ldo/qahirah> count?
That?s over 8500 lines. And this <https://gitlab.com/ldo/dbussy>
consists of 2 modules totalling over 10,000 lines.
No wonder. The problem with counting by lines is you may come up with
10,000, but if you took out whitespace it could be short as 102 lines.
To begin I know you should only import maybe at most 2 packages besides
sys and/or random.
Do other languages get away with allowing you to override standard
system libraries without breaking things?
It's a standard.
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 15:47:43 -0600, Blaine wrote:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On 17 Oct 2026 09:43:01 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
From what I saw, for a beginner's approach, python is easier than Java >>>> or C++. Now when one starts to use python in the real life, the
complexity of python appears. Because that's the python way: things
works except when they stop to work.
I haven?t encountered that. I have written some reasonably substantial
Python code -- would this one <https://gitlab.com/ldo/qahirah> count?
That?s over 8500 lines. And this <https://gitlab.com/ldo/dbussy>
consists of 2 modules totalling over 10,000 lines.
No wonder. The problem with counting by lines is you may come up with
10,000, but if you took out whitespace it could be short as 102 lines.
ldo@hypatia:dbussy> grep -cE '^$' dbussy.py ravel.py
dbussy.py:720
ravel.py:240
ldo@hypatia:dbussy> grep -cvE '^$' dbussy.py ravel.py
dbussy.py:6279
ravel.py:3483
Still close to 10,000 lines. So ... nope.
To begin I know you should only import maybe at most 2 packages besides
sys and/or random.
Where do you get that idea from?
From the abovementioned dbussy.py:
import os
import builtins
import operator
I am suggesting that someone "new" to Python shouldn't import very
many packages, as they can overlap problematically.
Because I tricked you into thinking, "To begin" means "well here we go again." I intentionally made it obscure that I am instructing the
beginner on this point. I am suggesting that someone "new" to Python shouldn't import very many packages, as they can overlap problematically.
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 20:42:04 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
Who says you need to ?declare dictionaries??
ldo@hypatia:~> python3 Python 3.14.7 (main, Sep 13 2026, 08:30:29)
[GCC 16.2.0] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or
"license"
for more information.
>>> a = "some text" print(a)
some text
>>> a = {"colour" : "green"}
>>> print(a)
{'colour': 'green'}
Python 3.14.4 (main, Aug 20 2026, 10:41:58) [GCC 15.2.0] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
{'coluor': 'green'}a = {"coluor" : "green"}
print(a)
{'coluor': 'green', 'color': 'purple'}a["color"] = "purple"
print(a)
I've seen bugs introduced either by typos or a programmer who couldn't
spell. It's either a very handy feature or a potential problem to add ad
hoc fields.
One annoyance is the different site packages on the various distros. For example on Fedora you can install python3-ruff as a site package with
dnf. On Ubuntu 26.04 you get 'Error: Unable to locate package python3-
ruff' and have to install it in a venv.
On 18/10/2026 03:54, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 20:42:04 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
Who says you need to ?declare dictionaries??
˙˙˙˙ ldo@hypatia:~> python3 Python 3.14.7 (main, Sep 13 2026, 08:30:29)
˙˙˙˙ [GCC 16.2.0] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or
˙˙˙˙ "license"
˙˙˙˙ for more information.
˙˙˙˙ >>> a = "some text" print(a)
˙˙˙˙ some text
˙˙˙˙ >>> a = {"colour" : "green"}
˙˙˙˙ >>> print(a)
˙˙˙˙ {'colour': 'green'}
Python 3.14.4 (main, Aug 20 2026, 10:41:58) [GCC 15.2.0] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
{'coluor': 'green'}a = {"coluor" : "green"}
print(a)
{'coluor': 'green', 'color': 'purple'}a["color"] = "purple"
print(a)
I've seen bugs introduced either by typos or a programmer who couldn't
spell. It's either a very handy feature or a potential problem to add ad
hoc fields.
If that's the case use a dataclass with frozen=True (and perhaps kw_only=True).
... class Config:from dataclasses import dataclass
@dataclass(frozen=True, kw_only=True)
Traceback (most recent call last):a = Config(color='purple')
a.coluor
Traceback (most recent call last):a.color = 'green'
'purple'a.color
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:07:08 -0600, Blaine wrote:
I am suggesting that someone "new" to Python shouldn't import very
many packages, as they can overlap problematically.
How ?overlap??
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 12:11:06 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
If that's the case use a dataclass with frozen=True (and perhaps
kw_only=True).
Yes, the language has been improving but iirc dataclass appeared in 3.7.
On 18 Oct 2026 09:57:01 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
So, telling beginners that python is great because it has so many
packages, but one should try to avoid using them can be a little bit
confusing.
Confusing but after seeing posts like 'Hi, I'm starting to learn Python.
How do I use numpy?' you want to scream 'learn the basics first!'
So, telling beginners that python is great because it has so many
packages, but one should try to avoid using them can be a little bit confusing.
I had to put numpy back on the shelf. The use I found for it to this
point was 3D placement. But it says somewhere in small print: don't
use this for small vectors (3 per vector in 3D placement).
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
This paper examines two manifestations of the problem. First, it
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:07:08 -0600, Blaine wrote:
I am suggesting that someone "new" to Python shouldn't import very
many packages, as they can overlap problematically.
How ?overlap??
analyzes dependency conflicts surrounding the Jupyter ecosystem,
with emphasis on jupyter-client, ipykernel, notebook, and related
packages. Second, it examines a more subtle form of conflict in
which a function is silently substituted or renamed, causing a
fundamentally different probabilistic behavior.
[long screed deleted]
Confusing but after seeing posts like 'Hi, I'm starting to learn Python.
How do I use numpy?' you want to scream 'learn the basics first!'
The issue wasn't about assigning a new dictionary to a variable, but
adding some values in it. Some methods didn't worked for adding
values if I didn't assign an empty dictionary or an empty list
first, before doing anything on it.
I managed to do it with other programming languages. I managed to do
it with python, to. In the end, it worked. But it was more
cumbersome with python. I'm not saying that a programming language
should be able to be used without being learned. I'm saying that
it's not an easier language to use.
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 14:38:31 -0600, Blaine wrote:
I had to put numpy back on the shelf. The use I found for it to this
point was 3D placement. But it says somewhere in small print: don't
use this for small vectors (3 per vector in 3D placement).
Did you understand that by ?small vectors? they meant ?arrays of few elements?, not ?vectors with dimensions as few as 3??
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 11:31:00 -0600, Blaine wrote:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
This paper examines two manifestations of the problem. First, it
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:07:08 -0600, Blaine wrote:
I am suggesting that someone "new" to Python shouldn't import very
many packages, as they can overlap problematically.
How ?overlap??
analyzes dependency conflicts surrounding the Jupyter ecosystem,
with emphasis on jupyter-client, ipykernel, notebook, and related
packages. Second, it examines a more subtle form of conflict in
which a function is silently substituted or renamed, causing a
fundamentally different probabilistic behavior.
[long screed deleted]
Copied-and-pasted AI slop, is it? I notice the lack of attribution,
and the fact that it doesn?t make any sense otherwise.
Which brings us back to the "too many libraries" [Python] has.
For any thinkable application there is likely a python library, but
the person interested in the application, might not really be
interested in python, if not for the convenience of having almost
everything already cooked.
A bit of chicken / egg problem...
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 16:09:07 -0600, Blaine wrote:
I'll have my attorney review it and see if his observations are the
same.
Is your attorney's name Claude?
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:[snip]
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:07:08 -0600, Blaine wrote:This paper examines two manifestations of the problem.
I am suggesting that someone "new" to Python shouldn't import veryHow ?overlap??
many packages, as they can overlap problematically.
Le 18-10-2026, Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> a ‚crit˙:
Because I tricked you into thinking, "To begin" means "well here we go
again." I intentionally made it obscure that I am instructing the
beginner on this point. I am suggesting that someone "new" to Python
shouldn't import very many packages, as they can overlap problematically.
One of the power of python is the number of available packages. As the
saying go, in C you have a million ways to do what you want when in
python you have a million packages to do what you want.
So, telling beginners that python is great because it has so many
packages, but one should try to avoid using them can be a little bit confusing.
It's not only Python. Whatever C spec that allowed inline variable declarations was great. I'd gotten used to it in C++. I'm sure there were other changes that I don't use. Some I actively dislike. afaik C still doesn't have lambdas.[...]
At some point, people were staying away from Python because it didn?t
have enough libraries. Now the new excuse is that it has too many.
It?s not like getting married, you know; you can try a few, pick the
one(s) you find useful, and chuck the rest. That?s what choice is all
about, and Open Source is all about choice.
For any thinkable application there is likely a python library, but
the person interested in the application, might not really be
interested in python, if not for the convenience of having almost
everything already cooked.
That's what attracts people to Python.
Why do you think Python has been able to achieve such a state, to a
greater extent than any prior language? Even overtaking ones that had
some quite big corporate heavyweight sponsorship behind them?
Clue: it must have been something about the core language to begin
with, that made it such an attactive basis to build on.
A bit of chicken / egg problem...
It?s not Python that has the chicken/egg problem ...
On 19/10/2026 00.09, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
Why do you think Python has been able to achieve such a state, to a
greater extent than any prior language? Even overtaking ones that
had some quite big corporate heavyweight sponsorship behind them?
Clue: it must have been something about the core language to begin
with, that made it such an attactive basis to build on.
Not 100% sure about that.
Initially python was sold as java replacement, but free from
corporate interests.
How was it ?sold?, if it was being given away for free by a nonprofit dependent on volunteer support?
Remember the corporate interests have access to million-dollar
publicity budgets that no Free Software project can afford.
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 22:25:06 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
But 3.7, that's 2018!
That brings up an interesting question. How many people who have been
using Python for a decade or two keep up with the latest changes? What
they have been doing still works and they don't go out of their way to
read PEP 666 or whatever.
On Mon, 19 Oct 2026 09:54:28 +0200, Piergiorgio Sartor wrote:
On 19/10/2026 00.09, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
Why do you think Python has been able to achieve such a state, to a
greater extent than any prior language? Even overtaking ones that
had some quite big corporate heavyweight sponsorship behind them?
Clue: it must have been something about the core language to begin
with, that made it such an attactive basis to build on.
Not 100% sure about that.
Initially python was sold as java replacement, but free from
corporate interests.
How was it ?sold?, if it was being given away for free by a nonprofit dependent on volunteer support?
Remember the corporate interests have access to million-dollar
publicity budgets that no Free Software project can afford.
Consider Microsoft Basic, for example, with the backing of the world?s
most powerful computer company behind it. For building up a critical
mass of libraries, it had a head start, not just of a few years, but
of a decade or two, on Python. Yet nobody uses it any more. How come?
Even Java had the support of Sun, probably the most successful Unix
company. Yet Python has managed to overtake that, as well.
On 19/10/2026 05:19, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 22:25:06 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
But 3.7, that's 2018!That brings up an interesting question. How many people who have been
using Python for a decade or two keep up with the latest changes?
What they have been doing still works and they don't go out of their
way to read PEP 666 or whatever.
I do. I like to read "What's new in Python 3.x". I do the same with Perl
which has the advantage that new features come to me with an
immediately useful context attached.
Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> writes:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:[snip]
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:07:08 -0600, Blaine wrote:This paper examines two manifestations of the problem.
I am suggesting that someone "new" to Python shouldn't import veryHow ?overlap??
many packages, as they can overlap problematically.
Does the phrase "This paper" refer to the Usenet post in which it
appears, or to some other paper published elsewhere? (It's uncommon
to refer to Usenet posts as "papers".)
A followup suggests it was AI-generated. Was it? (I don't much
care either way, but I'm curious -- and if it was AI-generated I'm
not going to bother reading it.)
John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> writes:
On 19/10/2026 05:19, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 22:25:06 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
But 3.7, that's 2018!That brings up an interesting question. How many people who have been
using Python for a decade or two keep up with the latest changes?
What they have been doing still works and they don't go out of their
way to read PEP 666 or whatever.
I do. I like to read "What's new in Python 3.x". I do the same with Perl
Currently my most prolific source of updates to my Python knowledge is
code reviews with someone who keeps up with the changes a bit better
than I do, which has the advantage that new features come to me with an immediately useful context attached.
On Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:29:04 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
On 19/10/2026 05:19, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 22:25:06 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
[..]
But 3.7, that's 2018!
That brings up an interesting question. How many people who have been
using Python for a decade or two keep up with the latest changes? What
they have been doing still works and they don't go out of their way to
read PEP 666 or whatever.
I do. I like to read "What's new in Python 3.x". I do the same with Perl
https://gitlab.com/flufl/whatsnewt
"A TUI text adventure through what's new in Python 3.15."
Interesting approach.
Keith Thompson wrote:
Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> writes:If you'd like, I can refer you to the Harvard teacher who instructed
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:[snip]
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:07:08 -0600, Blaine wrote:This paper examines two manifestations of the problem.
I am suggesting that someone "new" to Python shouldn't import veryHow ?overlap??
many packages, as they can overlap problematically.
Does the phrase "This paper" refer to the Usenet post in which it
appears, or to some other paper published elsewhere? (It's uncommon
to refer to Usenet posts as "papers".)
A followup suggests it was AI-generated. Was it? (I don't much
care either way, but I'm curious -- and if it was AI-generated I'm
not going to bother reading it.)
this about conflict between packages. Are you unfamiliar with the
concept? BTW, I'm not claiming that anyone has to remain a beginner
forever.
On 19/10/2026 10.40, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
How was it ?sold?, if it was being given away for free by a
nonprofit dependent on volunteer support?
Remember the corporate interests have access to million-dollar
publicity budgets that no Free Software project can afford.
That does not seem to work either way. Linux was successful without
publicity budget, it seems. On the other hand, OS/2 was not that
successful, despite a large potential publicity budget.
On Mon, 19 Oct 2026 10:55:45 +0200, Piergiorgio Sartor wrote:
On 19/10/2026 10.40, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
How was it ?sold?, if it was being given away for free by a
nonprofit dependent on volunteer support?
Remember the corporate interests have access to million-dollar
publicity budgets that no Free Software project can afford.
That does not seem to work either way. Linux was successful without
publicity budget, it seems. On the other hand, OS/2 was not that
successful, despite a large potential publicity budget.
You?re just reinforcing the point I was trying to make. YOu seemed to
suggest that it was some kind of publicity campaign that led to the popularity of Python. I am saying it is down to the inherent quality
of the product, nothing more. You seem to be backing that up here.
On 20/10/2026 02.54, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
You?re just reinforcing the point I was trying to make. YOu seemed
to suggest that it was some kind of publicity campaign that led to
the popularity of Python. I am saying it is down to the inherent
quality of the product, nothing more. You seem to be backing that
up here.
I never said the opposite.
On Mon, 19 Oct 2026 09:54:28 +0200, Piergiorgio Sartor wrote:
On 19/10/2026 00.09, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
Why do you think Python has been able to achieve such a state, to a
greater extent than any prior language? Even overtaking ones that
had some quite big corporate heavyweight sponsorship behind them?
Clue: it must have been something about the core language to begin
with, that made it such an attactive basis to build on.
Not 100% sure about that.
Initially python was sold as java replacement, but free from
corporate interests.
How was it ?sold?, if it was being given away for free by a nonprofit dependent on volunteer support?
Remember the corporate interests have access to million-dollar
publicity budgets that no Free Software project can afford.
Consider Microsoft Basic, for example, with the backing of the world?s
most powerful computer company behind it. For building up a critical
mass of libraries, it had a head start, not just of a few years, but
of a decade or two, on Python. Yet nobody uses it any more. How come?
Even Java had the support of Sun, probably the most successful Unix
company. Yet Python has managed to overtake that, as well.
Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> writes:
Keith Thompson wrote:
Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> writes:If you'd like, I can refer you to the Harvard teacher who instructed
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:[snip]
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:07:08 -0600, Blaine wrote:This paper examines two manifestations of the problem.
I am suggesting that someone "new" to Python shouldn't import very >>>>>> many packages, as they can overlap problematically.How ?overlap??
Does the phrase "This paper" refer to the Usenet post in which it
appears, or to some other paper published elsewhere? (It's uncommon
to refer to Usenet posts as "papers".)
A followup suggests it was AI-generated. Was it? (I don't much
care either way, but I'm curious -- and if it was AI-generated I'm
not going to bother reading it.)
this about conflict between packages. Are you unfamiliar with the
concept? BTW, I'm not claiming that anyone has to remain a beginner
forever.
I just asked whether your post was AI-generated. You don't have
to answer, but your response is completely irrelevant to what I asked.
On Tue, 20 Oct 2026 08:08:58 +0200, Piergiorgio Sartor wrote:
On 20/10/2026 02.54, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
You?re just reinforcing the point I was trying to make. YOu seemed
to suggest that it was some kind of publicity campaign that led to
the popularity of Python. I am saying it is down to the inherent
quality of the product, nothing more. You seem to be backing that
up here.
I never said the opposite.
You said users used Python for the libraries, they couldn?t care less
about the language.
I pointed out that those rich libraries are there with Python rather
than some other language precisely because of the unique strengths of
the Python language.
Keith Thompson wrote:
Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> writes:Your question is rude. You're living in the past. Wake up in ten years
Keith Thompson wrote:
Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> writes:If you'd like, I can refer you to the Harvard teacher who instructed
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:[snip]
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:07:08 -0600, Blaine wrote:This paper examines two manifestations of the problem.
I am suggesting that someone "new" to Python shouldn't import very >>>>>>> many packages, as they can overlap problematically.How ?overlap??
Does the phrase "This paper" refer to the Usenet post in which it
appears, or to some other paper published elsewhere? (It's uncommon
to refer to Usenet posts as "papers".)
A followup suggests it was AI-generated. Was it? (I don't much
care either way, but I'm curious -- and if it was AI-generated I'm
not going to bother reading it.)
this about conflict between packages. Are you unfamiliar with the
concept? BTW, I'm not claiming that anyone has to remain a beginner
forever.
I just asked whether your post was AI-generated. You don't have
to answer, but your response is completely irrelevant to what I asked.
and ask again, I guess. Beggars can't be choosers.
Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> writes:
Keith Thompson wrote:
Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> writes:Your question is rude. You're living in the past. Wake up in ten years
Keith Thompson wrote:
Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> writes:If you'd like, I can refer you to the Harvard teacher who instructed
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:[snip]
On Sat, 17 Oct 2026 18:07:08 -0600, Blaine wrote:This paper examines two manifestations of the problem.
I am suggesting that someone "new" to Python shouldn't import very >>>>>>>> many packages, as they can overlap problematically.How ?overlap??
Does the phrase "This paper" refer to the Usenet post in which it
appears, or to some other paper published elsewhere? (It's uncommon >>>>> to refer to Usenet posts as "papers".)
A followup suggests it was AI-generated. Was it? (I don't much
care either way, but I'm curious -- and if it was AI-generated I'm
not going to bother reading it.)
this about conflict between packages. Are you unfamiliar with the
concept? BTW, I'm not claiming that anyone has to remain a beginner
forever.
I just asked whether your post was AI-generated. You don't have
to answer, but your response is completely irrelevant to what I asked.
and ask again, I guess. Beggars can't be choosers.
Actually I asked two questions. One was what the phrase "this paper" referred to. The other was whether your post was AI-generated.
I said nothing about Python packages. I only asked for some
clarification about what you wrote.
I have no idea why you think either or both of my questions were rude. Apparently you're not going to answer either of them. Clearly there's nothing I can do about that.
Keith Thompson wrote:[...]
Apparently you're not going to answer either of them. Clearly there'sClearly.
nothing I can do about that.
Look, you are suffering from a grand confusion about Usenet. I'm not
your bondservant, son. I don't have to obey your orders. Likewise,
neither do I have to fetch you a beer.
You are lying, deluded, or both. I asked you a couple of straightforward questions. You chose not to answer them. I absolutely understand
that you are under no obligation to answer any questions I asked,
and have not said or implied otherwise. You have made laughably
inaccurate inferences about what I asked, when the meanings of my
questions were clear from the questions themselves. And for what
it's worth, I no longer care about the answers.
You seem to be projecting your own issues onto me. You might want
to think about that, but I doubt it would do any good.
Feel free to have the last word and pretend that you've won something.
My apologies to the other readers of these newsgroups for contributing
to this off-topic discussion.
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