• Where do console messages show up in RasPiOS?

    From bp@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jul 9 10:24:44 2026
    Lately I've been having trouble with Bookworm, on both a Pi5
    and a Pi2B (32 bit), in which the Raspberry menu is used to
    launch applications but seemingly nothing happens. No error
    message pops up, it's as if I never even tried. Presumably
    something had a fatal error, but where should I look for
    the epitaph?

    This happens most often with Firefox and Chromium browsers,
    but occasionally happens with things like LX Terminal, which
    I'd expect to be more robust.

    There doesn't seem to be a /var/log/messages, as I'm accustomed
    to checking, and ISTR Windows used a dedicated application for
    watching system messages. Is there such a beast in Bookworm?

    I haven't yet hooked up a serial console cable but could if that's
    the only way to see what happened.

    Thanks for reading!

    bob prohaska


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jul 8 18:47:45 2026
    On 08/07/2026 18:26, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Lately I've been having trouble with Bookworm, on both a Pi5
    and a Pi2B (32 bit), in which the Raspberry menu is used to
    launch applications but seemingly nothing happens. No error
    message pops up, it's as if I never even tried. Presumably
    something had a fatal error, but where should I look for
    the epitaph?

    You could dredge through systemd logs.

    This happens most often with Firefox and Chromium browsers,
    but occasionally happens with things like LX Terminal, which
    I'd expect to be more robust.

    It is unclear as to exactly what you are doing.
    Wjat code is being launched and exactly how?


    There doesn't seem to be a /var/log/messages, as I'm accustomed
    to checking, and ISTR Windows used a dedicated application for
    watching system messages. Is there such a beast in Bookworm?

    I haven't yet hooked up a serial console cable but could if that's
    the only way to see what happened.

    ssh?

    Thanks for reading!

    bob prohaska


    --
    Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From bp@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jul 9 10:30:01 2026
    Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    bp@www.zefox.net writes:
    Lately I've been having trouble with Bookworm, on both a Pi5
    and a Pi2B (32 bit), in which the Raspberry menu is used to
    launch applications but seemingly nothing happens. No error
    message pops up, it's as if I never even tried. Presumably
    something had a fatal error, but where should I look for
    the epitaph?

    This happens most often with Firefox and Chromium browsers,
    but occasionally happens with things like LX Terminal, which
    I'd expect to be more robust.

    There doesn't seem to be a /var/log/messages, as I'm accustomed
    to checking, and ISTR Windows used a dedicated application for
    watching system messages. Is there such a beast in Bookworm?

    Standard error from applications launched from the desktop historically
    (and at least to some extent, still) goes to a file in your home
    directory. Watch it with:

    tail -f ~/.xsession-errors

    Some things log to the user journal:

    journalctl --user --follow

    Depending on the cause of the problem the kernel log may also be
    informative:

    journalctl --dmesg --follow


    Thank you very much!!

    bob prohaska


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard Kettlewell@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jul 8 19:44:44 2026
    bp@www.zefox.net writes:
    Lately I've been having trouble with Bookworm, on both a Pi5
    and a Pi2B (32 bit), in which the Raspberry menu is used to
    launch applications but seemingly nothing happens. No error
    message pops up, it's as if I never even tried. Presumably
    something had a fatal error, but where should I look for
    the epitaph?

    This happens most often with Firefox and Chromium browsers,
    but occasionally happens with things like LX Terminal, which
    I'd expect to be more robust.

    There doesn't seem to be a /var/log/messages, as I'm accustomed
    to checking, and ISTR Windows used a dedicated application for
    watching system messages. Is there such a beast in Bookworm?

    Standard error from applications launched from the desktop historically
    (and at least to some extent, still) goes to a file in your home
    directory. Watch it with:

    tail -f ~/.xsession-errors

    Some things log to the user journal:

    journalctl --user --follow

    Depending on the cause of the problem the kernel log may also be
    informative:

    journalctl --dmesg --follow

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jul 11 10:49:28 2026
    On Thu, 9 Jul 2026 18:40:37 +0100, druck wrote:

    Unfortunately due an onset of idiocy at Pi towers, starting with
    Bookworm they chose to remove rsyslog and it's look-at-with-anything
    textual logs, leaving you with the aberration of journald binary
    logging and the need to learn the incomprehensible incantations of journalctl.

    Luckily you can readily reinstall the righteous rsyslog package, so
    it works like Linux (and UNIX) is meant to work.

    Or you could run some other distro whose defaults are more to your
    liking. Gods forbid you might have to make configuration changes
    afterwards, eh?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From bp@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jul 11 10:50:21 2026
    Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    bp@www.zefox.net writes:
    Lately I've been having trouble with Bookworm, on both a Pi5
    and a Pi2B (32 bit), in which the Raspberry menu is used to
    launch applications but seemingly nothing happens. No error
    message pops up, it's as if I never even tried. Presumably
    something had a fatal error, but where should I look for
    the epitaph?

    This happens most often with Firefox and Chromium browsers,
    but occasionally happens with things like LX Terminal, which
    I'd expect to be more robust.

    There doesn't seem to be a /var/log/messages, as I'm accustomed
    to checking, and ISTR Windows used a dedicated application for
    watching system messages. Is there such a beast in Bookworm?

    Standard error from applications launched from the desktop historically
    (and at least to some extent, still) goes to a file in your home
    directory. Watch it with:

    tail -f ~/.xsession-errors

    Some things log to the user journal:

    journalctl --user --follow

    Depending on the cause of the problem the kernel log may also be
    informative:

    journalctl --dmesg --follow


    Thank you!!!

    bob prohaska


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris Green@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jul 10 08:42:08 2026
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 9 Jul 2026 18:40:37 +0100, druck wrote:

    Unfortunately due an onset of idiocy at Pi towers, starting with
    Bookworm they chose to remove rsyslog and it's look-at-with-anything textual logs, leaving you with the aberration of journald binary
    logging and the need to learn the incomprehensible incantations of journalctl.

    Luckily you can readily reinstall the righteous rsyslog package, so
    it works like Linux (and UNIX) is meant to work.

    Or you could run some other distro whose defaults are more to your
    liking. Gods forbid you might have to make configuration changes
    afterwards, eh?

    I manage 13 (I just counted them) systems of my own running a mix of
    Raspbian (or whatever it's called now), Debian and a couple of Ubuntu.

    I maintain a mercurial repository of the changes I've done in /etc on
    all of them. One thing in particular is that **all** systems have
    logging switched from systemd's journal to rsyslog. The same changed /etc/systemd/journald.conf is on all systems and I've installed
    rsyslog. Job done and it's dead easy to do the same on any new system.

    --
    Chris Green
    ú

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jul 11 16:30:02 2026
    On Fri, 10 Jul 2026 08:42:08 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

    I manage 13 (I just counted them) systems of my own running a mix of
    Raspbian (or whatever it's called now), Debian and a couple of
    Ubuntu.

    One thing in particular is that **all** systems have logging
    switched from systemd's journal to rsyslog.

    I?m sure that works OK for system logging (except for the timestamp
    issue).

    But remember, the systemd journal works for per-user-session logging,
    too.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard Kettlewell@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jul 11 10:53:38 2026
    druck <news@druck.org.uk> writes:
    bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    There doesn't seem to be a /var/log/messages, as I'm accustomed
    to checking, and ISTR Windows used a dedicated application for
    watching system messages. Is there such a beast in Bookworm?

    Unfortunately due an onset of idiocy at Pi towers, starting with
    Bookworm they chose to remove rsyslog and it's look-at-with-anything
    textual logs,

    RPi OS is following its Debian upstream here.

    leaving you with the aberration of journald binary logging and the
    need to learn the incomprehensible incantations of journalctl.

    I don?t recognize the description of journalctl as ?incomprehensible incantations?. It doesn?t seem any more opaque than most basic Unix
    commands to me. Comparing old and new:

    tail -f /var/log/messages journalctl -f
    grep wotsit /var/log/messages journalctl | grep wotsit
    or journalctl -g wotsit
    less /var/log/messages journalctl
    grep kernel: /var/log/messages journalctl -k

    You might have to spend a couple of minutes skimming ?journalctl --help?
    or some documentation to learn it, but the same was true of tail, grep,
    etc; you?ve just already done that and got used to it.

    If you really want ?incomprehensible incantations? try ffmpeg.

    Luckily you can readily reinstall the righteous rsyslog package, so it
    works like Linux (and UNIX) is meant to work.

    Does ?righteous? indicate that the attachment to syslog is religious
    rather than practical?

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris Green@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jul 11 09:31:20 2026
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Jul 2026 08:42:08 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

    I manage 13 (I just counted them) systems of my own running a mix of Raspbian (or whatever it's called now), Debian and a couple of
    Ubuntu.

    One thing in particular is that **all** systems have logging
    switched from systemd's journal to rsyslog.

    I?m sure that works OK for system logging (except for the timestamp
    issue).

    But remember, the systemd journal works for per-user-session logging,
    too.

    Since I'm the only user 'per-user' logging isn't all that significant.
    `

    --
    Chris Green
    ú

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Sun Jul 12 14:09:40 2026
    On Sat, 11 Jul 2026 09:31:20 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Fri, 10 Jul 2026 08:42:08 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

    One thing in particular is that **all** systems have logging
    switched from systemd's journal to rsyslog.

    I?m sure that works OK for system logging (except for the timestamp
    issue).

    But remember, the systemd journal works for per-user-session logging,
    too.

    Since I'm the only user 'per-user' logging isn't all that significant.

    It is for users of GUI apps, which is most Linux desktop users.

    That includes the poster who asked the question that started this
    thread.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jul 16 10:34:28 2026
    On Wed, 15 Jul 2026 17:49:13 +0100, druck wrote:

    That's the easy stuff, compare journald.conf with logrotate, and
    then find that half the vacuum options don't even work correctly. I
    have to manually clean out in-memory logs every few weeks so it
    doesn't get full, which affects random stuff.

    Never had any trouble with the systemd journal. None whatsoever.
    Whether on client machines (running Debian Stable), or my own (running
    Debian Unstable).

    I suspect the problem is with your distro.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Richard Kettlewell@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jul 16 20:10:13 2026
    bp@www.zefox.net writes:
    After opening windows with all three commands running I tried to
    start a program that sometimes fails silently. In this particular
    case it didn't fail, starting normally. However, no extra output
    was displayed in any of the monitoring windows. Should I have
    seen any output from any of these commands during a successful
    application start?

    Not necessarily. Some programs are chatty, but often if there?s nothing
    wrong then there?s no output.

    FWIW, the command run was from the raspberry>accessories menu,
    it's called owon-vds-tiny and it runs control software for a
    USB oscilloscope. When run from the command line it emits
    a considerable flow of status information to the controlling
    terminal.

    You would expect that to go _somewhere_ when started from a menu, so if
    you?re not seeing it at all then there?s certainly a question to answer.
    (It?s possible, though, that it only generates output if connected to a terminal, or that it writes it to some logfile that you don?t currently
    know about.)

    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From bp@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jul 17 09:43:11 2026
    bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    bp@www.zefox.net writes:
    Lately I've been having trouble with Bookworm, on both a Pi5
    and a Pi2B (32 bit), in which the Raspberry menu is used to
    launch applications but seemingly nothing happens. No error
    message pops up, it's as if I never even tried. Presumably
    something had a fatal error, but where should I look for
    the epitaph?

    This happens most often with Firefox and Chromium browsers,
    but occasionally happens with things like LX Terminal, which
    I'd expect to be more robust.

    There doesn't seem to be a /var/log/messages, as I'm accustomed
    to checking, and ISTR Windows used a dedicated application for
    watching system messages. Is there such a beast in Bookworm?

    Standard error from applications launched from the desktop historically
    (and at least to some extent, still) goes to a file in your home
    directory. Watch it with:

    tail -f ~/.xsession-errors

    Some things log to the user journal:

    journalctl --user --follow

    Depending on the cause of the problem the kernel log may also be
    informative:

    journalctl --dmesg --follow


    Thank you!!!

    After opening windows with all three commands running I tried to
    start a program that sometimes fails silently. In this particular
    case it didn't fail, starting normally. However, no extra output
    was displayed in any of the monitoring windows. Should I have
    seen any output from any of these commands during a successful
    application start?

    FWIW, the command run was from the raspberry>accessories menu,
    it's called owon-vds-tiny and it runs control software for a
    USB oscilloscope. When run from the command line it emits
    a considerable flow of status information to the controlling
    terminal.

    I'll keep trying in hopes of capturing a failure event. So far
    they seem associated with prolonged (days or weeks) of uptime.

    Thanks for reading,

    bob prohaska


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.18
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)