• Re: R.I.P. Michael Jayston

    From Truthslave@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Feb 6 10:07:46 2024
    On 05/02/2024 20:58, The Coca Cola Kid wrote:
    The most underrated and most misunderstood incarnation of the Doctor ever. He was fighting for justice against the corrupt High Council of Gallifrey, without the constraints of his previous incarnations' spurious 'morals'.

    In some ways, he was the original War Doctor, and was more in line with how the First Doctor was originally envisioned in early drafts.



    Speaking of the the original Doctor, Can anyone tell me why the BBC
    archives doesn't show the very first episodes of DW, I mean the episode
    where Janet is followed by her teachers back to the junk yard where the
    Tardis is discovered by them.

    I've seen this episode so i know it exist, so why doesn't the BBC start
    with episode 1, series 1, back where it all began?

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: frugalusenet - www.frugalusenet.com (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Truthslave@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Feb 6 12:58:35 2024
    On 05/02/2024 23:23, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <7TdwN.510169$Bv8e.474147@fx12.ams4>,
    Truthslave <TS@home.com> wrote:
    On 05/02/2024 20:58, The Coca Cola Kid wrote:
    The most underrated and most misunderstood incarnation of the Doctor
    ever. He was fighting for justice against the corrupt High Council of
    Gallifrey, without the constraints of his previous incarnations'
    spurious 'morals'.

    In some ways, he was the original War Doctor, and was more in line
    with how the First Doctor was originally envisioned in early drafts.



    Speaking of the the original Doctor, Can anyone tell me why the BBC
    archives doesn't show the very first episodes of DW, I mean the episode
    where Janet is followed by her teachers back to the junk yard where the
    Tardis is discovered by them.

    I've seen this episode so i know it exist, so why doesn't the BBC start
    with episode 1, series 1, back where it all began?

    An Unearthly Child is supposed to be the starting point!
    Then Chris Chibnall comes along!


    LOL?

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: frugalusenet - www.frugalusenet.com (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Agent Jakanov@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Feb 6 13:17:14 2024
    Truthslave <TS@home.com> wrote in
    news:7TdwN.510169$Bv8e.474147@fx12.ams4:

    On 05/02/2024 20:58, The Coca Cola Kid wrote:
    The most underrated and most misunderstood incarnation of the Doctor
    ever. He was fighting for justice against the corrupt High Council
    of Gallifrey, without the constraints of his previous incarnations'
    spurious 'morals'.

    In some ways, he was the original War Doctor, and was more in line
    with how the First Doctor was originally envisioned in early drafts.



    Speaking of the the original Doctor, Can anyone tell me why the BBC
    archives doesn't show the very first episodes of DW, I mean the
    episode where Janet is followed by her teachers back to the junk yard
    where the Tardis is discovered by them.

    I've seen this episode so i know it exist, so why doesn't the BBC
    start with episode 1, series 1, back where it all began?

    I remember that episode too. Janet was my favorite character. :-)

    Well, I heard the episode was banned after they found out the writer was
    a racist anti-vaxxer who supports Donald Trump. That's what they say on Gallifrey Base, anyways.




    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: TWA (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From The Last Doctor@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Feb 6 19:16:16 2024
    Truthslave <TS@home.com> wrote:
    On 05/02/2024 20:58, The Coca Cola Kid wrote:
    The most underrated and most misunderstood incarnation of the Doctor
    ever. He was fighting for justice against the corrupt High Council of
    Gallifrey, without the constraints of his previous incarnations' spurious 'morals'.

    In some ways, he was the original War Doctor, and was more in line with
    how the First Doctor was originally envisioned in early drafts.



    Speaking of the the original Doctor, Can anyone tell me why the BBC
    archives doesn't show the very first episodes of DW, I mean the episode
    where Janet is followed by her teachers back to the junk yard where the Tardis is discovered by them.

    I've seen this episode so i know it exist, so why doesn't the BBC start
    with episode 1, series 1, back where it all began?


    The author of the first story, Anthony Coburn, died in 1977. Back in those
    days the IP rights to fictional content produced for the BBC was a confused mess, even when the writers were on the BBC staff.

    And after all, it wasn’t like shows were ever likely to be repeated, was
    it? Tape was valuable and got scrubbed for re-use. Etc.

    Anyway, the BBC came to an informal agreement with Coburn that said that
    any elements he introduced were fair game and his story could be shown if
    ever there came a time , etc …

    Along comes the 21st century and Coburn’s son, a bit of a right wing crackpot, thinking he could get minted and blaming the BBC for his father
    dying more than 30 years earlier, sued the BBC over the copyright to the
    term TARDIS, back in 2013.

    At the time he claimed

    “It is by no means my wish to deprive legions of Doctor Who fans (of whom I was never one) of any aspect of their favorite children’s program. The only ends I wish to accomplish, by whatever lawful means present themselves,
    involve bringing about the public recognition that should by rights always
    have been his due, of my father James Anthony Coburn’s seminal contribution to Doctor Who, and proper lawful recompense to his surviving estate.”

    He got laughed out of court.

    He continued to harass the BBC in the background but when the BBC licenced
    all of Classic Who to itself and ITV as a big chunk of BritBox UK content,
    that included the first story. Those episodes can still be seen on BritBox
    and now ITVX Premium along with all the rest.

    Along comes 2023 and Stef Coburn sees that the “Whoniverse” is coming to the BBC and spots his next chance to try to extort a big payday.

    Having already been offered and turned down a five figure sum to retrospectively acknowledge his fathers contribution to the beginnings of Doctor Who, he decided to “withdraw his family’s licence to show” the first
    serial and sue the BBC again because:

    Well basically because he’s a racist chauvinist homophobic transphobic loon who hates the modern world. He thinks Putin is a much maligned benign
    figure, Donald Trump is a saint, vaccines kill, climate change is a fraud
    etc.

    (On seeing Ncuti Gatwa cast as the Doctor)

    “The ashes of my father: Doctor Who CO-CREATOR, & 'TARDIS' ORIGINATOR, Anthony Coburn, are now oscillating at light-speed in his urn; in OUTRAGE
    at what generations of progressively MORE corrupted BBC filth, have done
    with HIS creation. Had he known, he'd have turned-down the job.”

    He wasn’t a fan of Jodie Whittaker being cast either but I’m not raking back through the acidic toxic waste of his Twitter feed to find a relevant quote.

    Anyway, to cut a short story long, the first serial is not part of the
    current Whoniverse collection because the BBC want to go to court and get
    clear title to it settled once and for all (or for Stef Coburn to take a generous peace offering, realising he can never win, and slink off once and
    for all) and not muddy the waters of Coburn’s case by showcasing the serial in advance of that.

    --
    “The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Truthslave@3:633/280.2 to All on Wed Feb 7 11:59:01 2024
    On 06/02/2024 11:43, Daniel65 wrote:
    Truthslave wrote on 6/2/24 10:07 am:
    On 05/02/2024 20:58, The Coca Cola Kid wrote:
    The most underrated and most misunderstood incarnation of the Doctor
    ever. He was fighting for justice against the corrupt High Council
    of Gallifrey, without the constraints of his previous incarnations'
    spurious 'morals'.

    In some ways, he was the original War Doctor, and was more in line
    with how the First Doctor was originally envisioned in early drafts.

    Speaking of the the original Doctor, Can anyone tell me why the BBC
    archives doesn't show the very first episodes of DW, I mean the episode
    where Janet is followed by her teachers back to the junk yard where the
    Tardis is discovered by them.

    I've seen this episode so i know it exist, so why doesn't the BBC start
    with episode 1, series 1, back where it all began?

    "Janet"?? Who the hell os "Janet"?? It was "Susan" who lived at the
    Junkyard, wasn't it??

    Yes! Of course, it was Susan.
    I can hear the doctor now. 'Susan, come along child'.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: frugalusenet - www.frugalusenet.com (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/280.2 to All on Thu Feb 8 00:57:10 2024
    Daniel65 wrote:

    The Doctor wrote on 7/2/24 1:45 am:
    In article <upt60c$s3jc$1@dont-email.me>, Daniel65
    <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

    "Janet"?? Who the hell os "Janet"?? It was "Susan" who lived at
    the Junkyard, wasn't it??

    Janet Fielding as Tegan Jovanka!

    Sorry!! "Janet is followed by her teachers back to the junk yard
    where the Tardis is discovered by them"!!

    So are YOU, "Yellow Beard Yadallee", now suggesting that 'Janet
    Fielding' who appeared as 'Tegan Jovanka' ALSO lived in the
    Junkyard with The Doctor??

    REALLY??

    Such is AI

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: xs news (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Agent Jakanov@3:633/280.2 to All on Thu Feb 8 08:11:31 2024
    Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote in news:uq007q$1eilj$1@dont- email.me:


    "Janet"?? Who the hell os "Janet"?? It was "Susan" who lived at
    the Junkyard, wasn't it??

    Janet Fielding as Tegan Jovanka!

    Sorry!! "Janet is followed by her teachers back to the junk yard where
    the Tardis is discovered by them"!!

    So are YOU, "Yellow Beard Yadallee", now suggesting that 'Janet
    Fielding' who appeared as 'Tegan Jovanka' *ALSO* lived in the Junkyard
    with The Doctor??

    REALLY??

    Maybe she was one of Susan's classmates and she went to the junkyard to
    make out with a BOY. Did you ever think of that?

    I'm glad the first episode of Doctor Who was so heteronormative.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: TWA (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Agent Jakanov@3:633/280.2 to All on Thu Feb 8 08:15:29 2024
    doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote in news:uptgm2$2pvb$26@gallifrey.nk.ca:

    In article <upt60c$s3jc$1@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    Truthslave wrote on 6/2/24 10:07 am:
    On 05/02/2024 20:58, The Coca Cola Kid wrote:
    The most underrated and most misunderstood incarnation of the
    Doctor ever.  He was fighting for justice against the corrupt High
    Council of Gallifrey, without the constraints of his previous
    incarnations' spurious 'morals'.

    In some ways, he was the original War Doctor, and was more in line
    with how the First Doctor was originally envisioned in early
    drafts.

    Speaking of the the original Doctor, Can anyone tell me why the BBC
    archives doesn't show the very first episodes of DW, I mean the
    episode where Janet is followed by her teachers back to the junk
    yard where the Tardis is discovered by them.

    I've seen this episode so i know it exist, so why doesn't the BBC
    start with episode 1, series 1, back where it all began?

    "Janet"?? Who the hell os "Janet"?? It was "Susan" who lived at the >>Junkyard, wasn't it??

    Janet Fielding as Tegan Jovanka!

    Thank you. One of them was a character in the show and the other is a
    real person!

    :-)

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: TWA (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Agent Jakanov@3:633/280.2 to All on Thu Feb 8 09:12:26 2024
    The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote in
    news:upspsf$q2ns$1@dont-email.me:

    Truthslave <TS@home.com> wrote:
    On 05/02/2024 20:58, The Coca Cola Kid wrote:
    The most underrated and most misunderstood incarnation of the Doctor
    ever. He was fighting for justice against the corrupt High Council
    of Gallifrey, without the constraints of his previous incarnations'
    spurious 'morals'.

    In some ways, he was the original War Doctor, and was more in line
    with how the First Doctor was originally envisioned in early drafts.



    Speaking of the the original Doctor, Can anyone tell me why the BBC
    archives doesn't show the very first episodes of DW, I mean the
    episode where Janet is followed by her teachers back to the junk yard
    where the Tardis is discovered by them.

    I've seen this episode so i know it exist, so why doesn't the BBC
    start with episode 1, series 1, back where it all began?


    The author of the first story, Anthony Coburn, died in 1977. Back in
    those days the IP rights to fictional content produced for the BBC was
    a confused mess, even when the writers were on the BBC staff.

    I think it was closer to what IP rights should be like. I knew a girl
    who was in a popular band in the early 2000s. She wrote all the songs
    and was the lead singer, but the producers stole her work. After she
    left the band they had other girls recycled her work, but when tried to perform the same songs the producer Sergei Ivanov sued her, and a court ordered she had no rights to sing her own songs.


    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: TWA (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From The Last Doctor@3:633/280.2 to All on Thu Feb 8 11:04:07 2024
    The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
    In article <uq0v8a$1k2mm$1@dont-email.me>,
    Agent Jakanov <mouth@onlegs.org> wrote:
    The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote in
    news:upspsf$q2ns$1@dont-email.me:

    Truthslave <TS@home.com> wrote:
    On 05/02/2024 20:58, The Coca Cola Kid wrote:
    The most underrated and most misunderstood incarnation of the Doctor >>>>> ever. He was fighting for justice against the corrupt High Council
    of Gallifrey, without the constraints of his previous incarnations'
    spurious 'morals'.

    In some ways, he was the original War Doctor, and was more in line
    with how the First Doctor was originally envisioned in early drafts. >>>>>


    Speaking of the the original Doctor, Can anyone tell me why the BBC
    archives doesn't show the very first episodes of DW, I mean the
    episode where Janet is followed by her teachers back to the junk yard
    where the Tardis is discovered by them.

    I've seen this episode so i know it exist, so why doesn't the BBC
    start with episode 1, series 1, back where it all began?


    The author of the first story, Anthony Coburn, died in 1977. Back in
    those days the IP rights to fictional content produced for the BBC was
    a confused mess, even when the writers were on the BBC staff.

    I think it was closer to what IP rights should be like. I knew a girl
    who was in a popular band in the early 2000s. She wrote all the songs
    and was the lead singer, but the producers stole her work. After she
    left the band they had other girls recycled her work, but when tried to
    perform the same songs the producer Sergei Ivanov sued her, and a court
    ordered she had no rights to sing her own songs.


    Say IntProp and not IP. IP usually stands for Internet Protocol.

    No it doesn’t Dave. Millions of people use IP every day as shorthand for Intellectual Property. “IntProp” is millions of times rarer.

    It’s entirely possible for abbreviations to refer to more than one thing,
    and under most circumstances it’s easy to tell from context what is meant when the concepts are sufficiently far apart. For example, only a total
    idiot would imagine that a conversation about writing in the 1960s, or any conversation about creative control, would mean “Internet Protocol” when using the term IP.

    Similarly, in tech circles, it’s vanishingly unlikely that anyone with more intelligence than a wooden stick would think that an “IPv6 address” was referring to the copyright status of the network node.


    --
    “The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Agent Jakanov@3:633/280.2 to All on Thu Feb 8 23:46:31 2024
    Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote in news:uq2d08$1ugvn$1@dont-email.me:

    Agent Jakanov wrote on 8/2/24 8:11 am:
    Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote in
    news:uq007q$1eilj$1@dont-email.me:

    "Janet"?? Who the hell os "Janet"?? It was "Susan" who lived at
    the Junkyard, wasn't it??

    Janet Fielding as Tegan Jovanka!

    Sorry!! "Janet is followed by her teachers back to the junk yard
    where the Tardis is discovered by them"!!

    So are YOU, "Yellow Beard Yadallee", now suggesting that 'Janet
    Fielding' who appeared as 'Tegan Jovanka' *ALSO* lived in the
    Junkyard with The Doctor??

    REALLY??

    Maybe she was one of Susan's classmates and she went to the junkyard
    to make out with a BOY. Did you ever think of that?

    Oh!! YEAH! I'm sure ever BOY dreams of making out with his girl in a Junkyard!! ;-P

    When you're a teenager, you take what you can get. Back then, it was
    taboo to make out in public or in front of your parents. That's why
    Barbara assumed Susan was meeting a boy there at night.

    I'm glad the first episode of Doctor Who was so heteronormative.

    No, it wasn't 'heteronormative' (Did that word even exist back in
    1963??) it was just a Kids program.

    By today's standards it's heteronormative. Doctor Who is still just a
    Kids program, but the newest episodes certainly aren't heteronormative.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: TWA (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Agent Jakanov@3:633/280.2 to All on Fri Feb 9 00:19:06 2024
    doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote in news:uq1041$viv$17 @gallifrey.nk.ca:

    In article <uq0v8a$1k2mm$1@dont-email.me>,
    Agent Jakanov <mouth@onlegs.org> wrote:
    The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote in >>news:upspsf$q2ns$1@dont-email.me:

    The author of the first story, Anthony Coburn, died in 1977. Back in
    those days the IP rights to fictional content produced for the BBC
    was a confused mess, even when the writers were on the BBC staff.

    I think it was closer to what IP rights should be like. I knew a girl
    who was in a popular band in the early 2000s. She wrote all the songs
    and was the lead singer, but the producers stole her work. After she
    left the band they had other girls recycled her work, but when tried
    to perform the same songs the producer Sergei Ivanov sued her, and a
    court ordered she had no rights to sing her own songs.


    Say IntProp and not IP. IP usually stands for Internet Protocol.

    Take it up with the OP. I was using IP in the same way as the article I
    was respond to.



    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: TWA (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From The Last Doctor@3:633/280.2 to All on Fri Feb 9 01:21:43 2024
    Agent Jakanov <mouth@onlegs.org> wrote:
    The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote in news:upspsf$q2ns$1@dont-email.me:

    Truthslave <TS@home.com> wrote:
    On 05/02/2024 20:58, The Coca Cola Kid wrote:
    The most underrated and most misunderstood incarnation of the Doctor
    ever. He was fighting for justice against the corrupt High Council
    of Gallifrey, without the constraints of his previous incarnations'
    spurious 'morals'.

    In some ways, he was the original War Doctor, and was more in line
    with how the First Doctor was originally envisioned in early drafts.



    Speaking of the the original Doctor, Can anyone tell me why the BBC
    archives doesn't show the very first episodes of DW, I mean the
    episode where Janet is followed by her teachers back to the junk yard
    where the Tardis is discovered by them.

    I've seen this episode so i know it exist, so why doesn't the BBC
    start with episode 1, series 1, back where it all began?


    The author of the first story, Anthony Coburn, died in 1977. Back in
    those days the IP rights to fictional content produced for the BBC was
    a confused mess, even when the writers were on the BBC staff.

    I think it was closer to what IP rights should be like. I knew a girl
    who was in a popular band in the early 2000s. She wrote all the songs
    and was the lead singer, but the producers stole her work. After she
    left the band they had other girls recycled her work, but when tried to perform the same songs the producer Sergei Ivanov sued her, and a court ordered she had no rights to sing her own songs.

    There’s a difference, and writers know it. Being a staff writer on a show,
    or writing a work-for-hire novel in a franchise universe, or writing code
    for an employer, often means that the intellectual property rights reside
    with the employer or commissioner of the work. Those rights are signed
    over.

    Your example is more like where a novice writer is scammed by an
    unscrupulous “publisher” - some of whose contracts can steal the rights not only to what has been written, but to anything that writer might try to
    publish in the future.

    The situation we’re talking about is more akin to that of a session
    musician brought in to complete a recording. They might contribute a riff
    or musical hook, but that doesn’t make it their song. They’ve been paid specifically to make that contribution and their reward is their pay. That situation was very unclear at the BBC and has resulted in Doctor Who’s
    case, in permission needing to be sought to use the Daleks, or the
    Brigadier, for example.

    The Beeb got better at it eventually - Gordon the Gopher belongs to Philip Schofield, but Edd the Duck (and later puppets) belong to the BBC.

    However the BBC DID have the permission of Anthony Coburn to continue to
    use the minor elements he had contributed to the earliest episodes of Who,
    and that permission was still in place when he died.

    Such permissions last in perpetuity. The right to withdraw does not pass to
    the estate in British law. Stef Coburn hasn’t got a legal leg to stand on - the BBC is simply not going to give him cause to claim they are in breach, until the issue is resolved in court (hopefully soon).

    --
    “The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)