In article <xn0oihw8ragnfp2000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
The Last Doctor wrote:
In “The Star Beast”, the Doctor miraculously gains the ability to
generate defensive energy shields with a sonic screwdriver - that
can then be moved around by hand. A wheelchair can shoot rockets
without any annoying third law of motion kickback.
In “Wild Blue Yonder”, the TARDIS leaves a TARDIS - shaped indent
in the wall of a room in a spaceship, like a mouse shaped
deformation in a frying pan in a Tom and Jerry short. Matter
appears and disappears out of nowhere as the aliens from beyond
space deform and change size randomly.
In “The Giggle”, the Toymaker bends reality, turning bullets into
balloons and flowers, spinning people out of control, creating
doorways in the floor that disappear, yet at a crucial moment is
unable to turn his hand into a large catcher’s mitt … and one
individual becomes two by PULLING HIM APART BY THE ARMS. Later,
the new Doctor wields a hammer and knocks a whole new TARDIS into
existence out of nothing.
In “The Church on Ruby Road”, the Doctor emerges unscathed from
having a giant Christmas decoration dropped on him. Giant sailing
ships fly undetected through the skies of London manned by beings
who survive on coincidence and sustained by tiny amounts of luck -
an unlucky baby is a three day feast for hundreds, including Jabba
the Hutt’s ugly cousin. The Doctor has absolutely no basis for
knowing any of the things he knows, and the goblins aren’t aliens
- they’re just fantasy goblins, and they vanish like tears in rain
when thwarted by the Doctor’s magical powers.
All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and felt a
lot like Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear change
towards accepting the truly unbelievable as part of the stories.
I’d hoped that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had been damped
down by Chibnall (one of the few positives of his era for me), but
it seems RTD is now tripling down on it.
How do we feel about that?
There's a definite trend in modern 'Who' leaning towards more
fantasy elements... the recent 2023 episodes are a prime example of
that, as mentioned. But it has been there for years, RTD just seems
to like it a bit more. Doctor Who has evolved in to that sort of
show now. I don't blame it on the Disney influence as RTD is his own
man with his own ideas, the Disney $$ just makes the fantasy look
better!
Some of it is stupid... banging the TARDIS with a hammer to knock a
new one out for instance! The fantasy elements can also be an easy
'way out' for the writer. But if the episodes are entertaining to
watch I actually don't mind, as Doctor Who isn't written for 59 year
old men!
Modern 'Who' got sabotaged by the Timeless Child!
In ?The Star Beast?, the Doctor miraculously gains the ability to
generate defensive energy shields with a sonic screwdriver - that can
then be moved around by hand.
A wheelchair can shoot rockets without any annoying third law of
motion kickback.
In ?Wild Blue Yonder?, the TARDIS leaves a TARDIS - shaped indent in
the wall of a room in a spaceship, like a mouse shaped deformation in
a frying pan in a Tom and Jerry short.
Matter appears and disappears out of nowhere as the aliens from beyond
space deform and change size randomly.
In ?The Giggle?, the Toymaker bends reality, turning bullets into
balloons and flowers, spinning people out of control, creating
doorways in the floor that disappear, yet at a crucial moment is
unable to turn his hand into alarge catcher?s mitt ? and one
individual becomes two by PULLING HIM APART BY THE ARMS. Later, the
new Doctor wields a hammer and knocks a whole new TARDIS into
existence out of nothing.
In ?The Church on Ruby Road?, the Doctor emerges unscathed from
having a giant Christmas decoration dropped on him. Giant sailing
ships fly undetected through the skies of London manned by beings who
survive on coincidence and sustained by tiny amounts of luck - an
unlucky baby is a three day feast for hundreds, including Jabba the
Hutt?s ugly cousin. The Doctor has absolutely no basis for knowing
any of the things he knows, and the goblins aren?t aliens - they?re
just fantasy goblins, and they vanish like tears in rain when
thwarted by the Doctor?s magical powers.
All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and felt a lot
like Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear change towards
accepting the truly unbelievable as part of the stories. I?d hoped
that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had been damped down by
Chibnall (one of the few positives of his era for me), but it seems
RTD is now tripling down on it.
How do we feel about that?
Disclaimer - none of the above was written by or researched using
ChatGPT or any other AI crutch. It?s all my own work.
The Last Doctor let us know:
All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and
felt a lot like Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear
change towards accepting the truly unbelievable as part of
the stories. I’d hoped that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had
been damped down by Chibnall (one of the few positives of
his era for me), but it seems RTD is now tripling down on it.
How do we feel about that?
To be fair, the classic series had its share of fantasy stories too.
However, it usually tried to justify them either by setting them
outside the regular universe, where its rules didn’t apply (e.g.
Mind Robber, Warriors Gate) or by having the Doctor use some
unconvincing technobabble to deny the fantasy elements (e.g.
Dmons, Planet of Evil) or both (e.g. Three Doctors, State of
Decay).
You might also argue that they were also less cartoonish and
more realistic. But that was probably just the lower budget and
primitive effects. Was the TARDIS breaking up in The Mind Robber
really less silly than duplicating itself in The Giggle?
Names again. I vaguely guess that's producers? What did that Moffat guy
do, which episodes stand out with this trend? (I'm rewatching the new series right now, so I'll get there soon enough, I guess.)
Please go back to what it was! Like, what it was first time round with Tennant!
The Last Doctor let us know:
Matter appears and disappears out of nowhere
as the aliens from beyond space deform and change
size randomly.
Here’s an actual example to illustrate my point:
Matter appears out of nowhere as Kerensky’s chicken grows
to adulthood instead of just starving to death faster. Pure cartoon
logic, but we don’t notice it because of
the technobabble
about time bubbles and because the special effects aren’t realistic
enough to show how unrealistic it is.
Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
Names again. I vaguely guess that's producers? What did that Moffat
guy do, which episodes stand out with this trend? (I'm rewatching
the new series right now, so I'll get there soon enough, I guess.)
Please go back to what it was! Like, what it was first time round
with Tennant!
Russell T Davies (RTD) brought the show back and ran it throughout
the Eccleston and Tennant eras.
He started the more overt fantasy trend with
Tooth and Claw
Love and Monsters
Fear Her
but the fantasy level dialled down from then on.
Steven Moffat ran the show for the Smith and Capaldi eras.
Smith got a few fairly fantasy oriented episodes
Night Terrors
The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe
The Rings of Akhaten
and then came Capaldi and series 8:
Robot of Sherwood
Kill the Moon
In the Forest of the Night
Series 9:
Sleep No More
Chris Chibnall helmed the Jodie Whittaker era. And while a fair few
of those episodes were poor, I can?t point to any that were outright
fantasy.
And now RTD is once more in charge, for Tennant take 2 and Gatwa.
The Giggle and The Church on Ruby Road, at least, have many pure
fantasy elements. In retrospect I?ll excuse The Star Beast and Wild
Blue Yonder - respect for physics has never been a strong suit in
televised Who.
On 27.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
The Giggle and The Church on Ruby Road, at least, have many pure
fantasy elements. In retrospect I?ll excuse The Star Beast and
Wild Blue Yonder - respect for physics has never been a strong
suit in televised Who.
Haha. It was always more science fantasy. :)
I would give the Toymaker the excuse of who and what he is, and
thus he can do cartoonish things.
The goblins do lack the "it's an alien from wherever, stranded
here n centuries ago" explanation. That's the main problem (apart
from the singing).
Mickmane wrote:
On 27.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
The Giggle and The Church on Ruby Road, at least, have many pure
fantasy elements. In retrospect I?ll excuse The Star Beast and
Wild Blue Yonder - respect for physics has never been a strong
suit in televised Who.
Haha. It was always more science fantasy. :)
I would give the Toymaker the excuse of who and what he is, and
thus he can do cartoonish things.
The game of 'catch' for such high stakes was a tad on the silly
side, but silly works if it's fun.
The goblins do lack the "it's an alien from wherever, stranded
here n centuries ago" explanation. That's the main problem (apart
from the singing).
The Goblins lacked a proper back-story beyond "they may have been on
Earth for a very long time" but then again, they're Goblins.
Everyone has heard tales about a mischievous evil Goblin in some
ancient fairy tale or folk story... or The Amazing Spider-Man comic!
Okay, the singing might have been a modern adaptation by RTD but
generally we've all been told by our parents about Goblins
but we never really knew where they came from, and never thought to
ask either!
On 27.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
Names again. I vaguely guess that's producers? What did that Moffat
guy do, which episodes stand out with this trend? (I'm rewatching
the new series right now, so I'll get there soon enough, I guess.)
Please go back to what it was! Like, what it was first time round
with Tennant!
Russell T Davies (RTD) brought the show back and ran it throughout
the Eccleston and Tennant eras.
He started the more overt fantasy trend with
Tooth and Claw
Love and Monsters
Fear Her
Nah, that was aliens.
And far less fantasy than the Mara.
More in line with that thing (forgot name) that the third Doctor sung
his Venusian Lullaby to.
Probably plenty more examples that I just can't
think of right now. I vaguely remember some archeological dig episodes, that would fit.
And then the 10th Doctor helped that giant space creature carrying a
ship, station, forgot what, (didn't rewatch it again yet) through space.
Or just consider the Impossible Planet.
but the fantasy level dialled down from then on.
I don't really see the distinction.
Steven Moffat ran the show for the Smith and Capaldi eras.
Smith got a few fairly fantasy oriented episodes
The one thing that stuck in mind (because I stopped watching in the
middle of a 2-parter, IIRC) was those weeping angels.
Oh, and that the Regeneration gene comes from being conceived in a travelling TARDIS. :)
Night Terrors
The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe
The Rings of Akhaten
and then came Capaldi and series 8:
Robot of Sherwood
Kill the Moon
In the Forest of the Night
Series 9:
Sleep No More
I don't really remember those episodes from titles alone. Kill the Moon
was the one where the Moon is an egg?
I mainly remember the 13th Doctor for more talking than running, and too much Clara. :P
Chris Chibnall helmed the Jodie Whittaker era. And while a fair few
of those episodes were poor, I can?t point to any that were outright
fantasy.
Apart from the supposed magic foundling from another universe?
And now RTD is once more in charge, for Tennant take 2 and Gatwa.
I wonder whether we'll see more Tennant. Anyone know for how many
episodes he was hired?
The Giggle and The Church on Ruby Road, at least, have many pure
fantasy elements. In retrospect I?ll excuse The Star Beast and Wild
Blue Yonder - respect for physics has never been a strong suit in
televised Who.
Haha. It was always more science fantasy. :)
I would give the Toymaker the excuse of who and what he is, and thus he
can do cartoonish things.
The goblins do lack the "it's an alien from wherever, stranded here n centuries ago" explanation. That's the main problem (apart from the singing).
On 28.02.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Mickmane wrote:
On 27.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
The Giggle and The Church on Ruby Road, at least, have many pure
fantasy elements. In retrospect I?ll excuse The Star Beast and
Wild Blue Yonder - respect for physics has never been a strong
suit in televised Who.
Haha. It was always more science fantasy. :)
I would give the Toymaker the excuse of who and what he is, and
thus he can do cartoonish things.
The game of 'catch' for such high stakes was a tad on the silly
side, but silly works if it's fun.
True!
If we get to actually think about stuff, I wonder whether the first game was really catch, or just 'catch me'/chasing, and the ball the first toy maybe. Even there, I'd expect some stick or rock used as fake baby by
kids being the first toy. (I saw some documentary that the young of some group of some apes do that.)
The goblins do lack the "it's an alien from wherever, stranded
here n centuries ago" explanation. That's the main problem (apart
from the singing).
The Goblins lacked a proper back-story beyond "they may have been on
Earth for a very long time" but then again, they're Goblins.
Everyone has heard tales about a mischievous evil Goblin in some
ancient fairy tale or folk story... or The Amazing Spider-Man comic!
I never heard about them flying around in a ship in the sky.
I don't think Rumpelstilzchen counts as a goblin. Apart from that, I ran into them only in games. :)
Okay, the singing might have been a modern adaptation by RTD but
generally we've all been told by our parents about Goblins
Nope, not here. :P
but we never really knew where they came from, and never thought to
ask either!
That didn't stop Doctor Who making up explanations of 'alien' with other legendary stuff.
Man, last night in bed I remembered another example, but now it's gone. Bah. Maybe it'll come back later.
On 28.02.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
The Goblins lacked a proper back-story beyond "they may have
been on Earth for a very long time" but then again, they're
Goblins. Everyone has heard tales about a mischievous evil
Goblin in some ancient fairy tale or folk story... or The
Amazing Spider-Man comic!
I never heard about them flying around in a ship in the sky.
I don't think Rumpelstilzchen counts as a goblin. Apart from that,
I ran into them only in games. :)
Okay, the singing might have been a modern adaptation by RTD but
generally we've all been told by our parents about Goblins
Nope, not here. :P
but we never really knew where they came from, and never thought
to ask either!
That didn't stop Doctor Who making up explanations of 'alien' with
other legendary stuff.
Mickmane wrote:
On 28.02.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
The Goblins lacked a proper back-story beyond "they may have
been on Earth for a very long time" but then again, they're
Goblins. Everyone has heard tales about a mischievous evil
Goblin in some ancient fairy tale or folk story... or The
Amazing Spider-Man comic!
I never heard about them flying around in a ship in the sky.
The Green Goblin used to fly around in the sky!!!
(Please tell me you've heard of The Green Goblin!)
I don't think Rumpelstilzchen counts as a goblin. Apart from that,
I ran into them only in games. :)
Games, books, films, they've been everywhere. The Orcs in Tolkien's
TLOTR are Goblins... they're just called Orcs! ;-)
Okay, the singing might have been a modern adaptation by RTD but
generally we've all been told by our parents about Goblins
Nope, not here. :P
Well, Snow White called them Dwarves but I say, Goblins! :-)
but we never really knew where they came from, and never thought
to ask either!
That didn't stop Doctor Who making up explanations of 'alien' with
other legendary stuff.
Maybe the Goblins will be back when we hear more about baby Ruby's back-story? I'm sure there will be more fantasy elements involved in
that!
Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
On 28.02.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Mickmane wrote:
On 27.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
but we never really knew where they came from, and never thought to
ask either!
That didn't stop Doctor Who making up explanations of 'alien' with
other legendary stuff.
Man, last night in bed I remembered another example, but now it's
gone. Bah. Maybe it'll come back later.
Mermaids: fish people, The Underwater Menace.
Vampires: State of Decay (4th). Vampires of Venice (11th).
Werewolves: Tooth and Claw (10th).
Gods of Ragnarok: Greatest Show in the Galaxy (7th).
Fairies: Small Worlds (Torchwood).
First few I can think of offhand.
Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
On 27.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
He started the more overt fantasy trend with
Tooth and Claw
Love and Monsters
Fear Her
Nah, that was aliens.
And far less fantasy than the Mara.
All of them? Or just the Squiggle?
More in line with that thing (forgot name) that the third Doctor
sung his Venusian Lullaby to.
Ageddor.
Probably plenty more examples that I just can't think of right now. I
vaguely remember some archeological dig episodes, that would fit.
And then the 10th Doctor helped that giant space creature carrying a
ship, station, forgot what, (didn't rewatch it again yet) through
space.
That?s the 11th. The Beast Below, city of London on top of a Space
Whale.
Or just consider the Impossible Planet.
The Beast at the bottom of the Satan Pit? Yeah, it?s remarkable how
such a large alien could exist with no apparent sustenance.
No, I don?t believe it was meant to be the Devil any more than the
Daemons were meant to be real imps.
- James Bond is low key sci-fi verging on fantasy, for example, a lot
of the time.
Steven Moffat ran the show for the Smith and Capaldi eras.
Smith got a few fairly fantasy oriented episodes
The one thing that stuck in mind (because I stopped watching in the
middle of a 2-parter, IIRC) was those weeping angels.
They had an unconvincing veil of ?scientific? explanation, at least
the first time - which was in Tennant?s era by the way.
How does a creature that can?t move if it can be seen ever move?
There?s always something observing even if it?s only a fly. And how
would theymate? An elaborate ritual of blind mans?s buff?)
Oh, and that the Regeneration gene comes from being conceived in a
travelling TARDIS. :)
Not proven. All of that is in a speculative conversation between the
Doctor and Vastra, then we move on without exploring the idea
further, ever.
(I prefer this theory, which I?ve laid out on here before - that the
Silence obtained a sample of the Doctor?s DNA in an encounter which
he then forgot, as you do, then passed it to their ally Madam
Kovarian - the scary villain with the eyepatch who had captured Amy
and held her captive throughout her pregnancy - who spliced the
Timelord DNA into the developing baby River.
This theory is entirely scientific, entirely compatible with the idea
that regeneration can be dished out by the TimeLords as a gift, and
yes, entirely compatible with the later Timeless Child narrative as
that?s the way ALL Timelords - other than the Doctor herself - were
made.
Night Terrors
The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe
The Rings of Akhaten
and then came Capaldi and series 8:
Robot of Sherwood
Kill the Moon
In the Forest of the Night
Series 9:
Sleep No More
I don't really remember those episodes from titles alone. Kill the
Moon was the one where the Moon is an egg?
Yes. And reforms immediately after hatching its magic space dragon,
as a new Moon egg.
Robot of Sherwood was where Robin Hood was not only really really
real but also as Technicolor and derring-do as the Errol Flynn movie.
In the Forest of the Night is where the Earth defended itself from a
solar flare by growing a magic worldwide forest overnight and it then disappeared, also overnight.
Sleep No More was a horror story set on a space station where
everybody died after a speck of alien dust gets in their eyes. It
falls into fantasy when it ends by suggesting that the Doctor and
Clara are also infected, so eventually _everyone_ dies.
I mainly remember the 13th Doctor for more talking than running, and
too much Clara. :P
There was no Clara in the 13th Doctor. Capaldi was the 12th.
And now RTD is once more in charge, for Tennant take 2 and Gatwa.
I wonder whether we'll see more Tennant. Anyone know for how many
episodes he was hired?
Just those three. But he?ll be back - of course he will. He can?t
stay away (remember this is the actor who was working on Who stuff
for Big Finish BEFORE he was cast as the Doctor.
The Giggle and The Church on Ruby Road, at least, have many pure
fantasy elements. In retrospect I?ll excuse The Star Beast and Wild
Blue Yonder - respect for physics has never been a strong suit in
televised Who.
Haha. It was always more science fantasy. :)
I would give the Toymaker the excuse of who and what he is, and thus
he can do cartoonish things.
Fine, but if the bi-generation and duplicate TARDIS are also things
done by the Toymaker then ?
The goblins do lack the "it's an alien from wherever, stranded here
n centuries ago" explanation. That's the main problem (apart from
the singing).
And how they exist. And the magic power of coincidence mathematics.
And the Doctor?s uncanny knowledge of what?s going on (why was he
hanging around Ruby before anything started to happen to her?
Wasn?t it lucky how he invented mavity gloves just when they?d be
needed by the plot?
How did he know to start singing? Etc)
On 28.02.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Mickmane wrote:
I never heard about them flying around in a ship in the sky.
The Green Goblin used to fly around in the sky!!!
(Please tell me you've heard of The Green Goblin!)
Nope.
I don't think Rumpelstilzchen counts as a goblin. Apart
from that, I ran into them only in games. :)
Games, books, films, they've been everywhere. The Orcs in
Tolkien's TLOTR are Goblins... they're just called Orcs! ;-)
Yeah, but they're not the traditional folk tale goblins,
little people.
Well, Snow White called them Dwarves but I say, Goblins! :-)
More like kids forced to work in mines. :P
That didn't stop Doctor Who making up explanations of
'alien' with other legendary stuff.
Maybe the Goblins will be back when we hear more about baby
Ruby's back-story? I'm sure there will be more fantasy
elements involved in that!
I just hope they make up some alien source explanation, or
other dimension leaking through, or something else that fits
Doctor Who.
Mickmane wrote on 2/3/24 8:51 pm:
I forgot who Vastra was.
Vastra was a lizard or snake skinned woman who usually went
around with a black veil pulled down over her face ....
usually accompanied by her Cockney girlfriend/lover
Mickmane wrote:
On 28.02.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Mickmane wrote:
I never heard about them flying around in a ship in the sky.
The Green Goblin used to fly around in the sky!!!
(Please tell me you've heard of The Green Goblin!)
Nope.
Norman Osborn? THE Green Goblin?!!!
I don't think Rumpelstilzchen counts as a goblin. Apart
from that, I ran into them only in games. :)
Games, books, films, they've been everywhere. The Orcs in
Tolkien's TLOTR are Goblins... they're just called Orcs! ;-)
Yeah, but they're not the traditional folk tale goblins,
little people.
Artistic licence! Tolkien made some adaptations as he already
had little people in his 'Middle-Earth'.
Well, Snow White called them Dwarves but I say, Goblins! :-)
More like kids forced to work in mines. :P
Goblins with shovels!!! :-)
Maybe the Goblins will be back when we hear more about baby
Ruby's back-story? I'm sure there will be more fantasy
elements involved in that!
I just hope they make up some alien source explanation, or
other dimension leaking through, or something else that fits
Doctor Who.
The Goblins were able to travel through time so people could
make a logical assumption that they were futuristic aliens.
Mickmane wrote on 2/3/24 8:51 pm:
On 28.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
Oh, and that the Regeneration gene comes from being conceived in a
travelling TARDIS. :)
Not proven. All of that is in a speculative conversation between
the Doctor and Vastra, then we move on without exploring the idea
further, ever.
River Song was a Timelord, she shared one (more?) regenerations to
save the Doctor.
Anyone know how many hearts she had?
I forgot who Vastra was.
Vastra was a lizard or snake skinned woman who usually went around
with a black veil pulled down over her face .... usually accompanied
by her Cockney girlfriend/lover and one of those 'Mr Potatoehead'
servants.
(Hmm! Before I send a post my SeaMonkey does a Spellcheck and, this
time, stopped at 'Potatoehead' .... and offered 'Pothead' as a
correction!!) --
Mickmane wrote on 29/2/24 6:32 am:
On 28.02.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Yeap, 'Doctor Who' *IS* all about different dimensions .....Maybe the Goblins will be back when we hear more about baby Ruby's
back-story? I'm sure there will be more fantasy elements involved
in that!
I just hope they make up some alien source explanation, or other
dimension leaking through, or something else that fits Doctor Who.
I mean when was the last time you saw Flying Trains in London or when
did you read in a reputable History Book of 'The Ironsides' that
helped defend London during World War II??
In “The Star Beast”, the Doctor miraculously gains the ability to generate
defensive energy shields with a sonic screwdriver - that can then be moved around by hand. A wheelchair can shoot rockets without any annoying third
law of motion kickback.
In “Wild Blue Yonder”, the TARDIS leaves a TARDIS - shaped indent in the wall of a room in a spaceship, like a mouse shaped deformation in a frying pan in a Tom and Jerry short. Matter appears and disappears out of nowhere
as the aliens from beyond space deform and change size randomly.
In “The Giggle”, the Toymaker bends reality, turning bullets into balloons
and flowers, spinning people out of control, creating doorways in the floor that disappear, yet at a crucial moment is unable to turn his hand into a large catcher’s mitt … and one individual becomes two by PULLING HIM APART
BY THE ARMS. Later, the new Doctor wields a hammer and knocks a whole new TARDIS into existence out of nothing.
In “The Church on Ruby Road”, the Doctor emerges unscathed from having a giant Christmas decoration dropped on him. Giant sailing ships fly
undetected through the skies of London manned by beings who survive on coincidence and sustained by tiny amounts of luck - an unlucky baby is a three day feast for hundreds, including Jabba the Hutt’s ugly cousin. The Doctor has absolutely no basis for knowing any of the things he knows, and the goblins aren’t aliens - they’re just fantasy goblins, and they vanish like tears in rain when thwarted by the Doctor’s magical powers.
All of the above managed to remain highly entertaining and felt a lot like
Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear change towards accepting the truly unbelievable as part of the stories. I’d hoped that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had been damped down by Chibnall (one of the few
positives of his era for me), but it seems RTD is now tripling down on it.
How do we feel about that?
Disclaimer - none of the above was written by or researched using ChatGPT
or any other AI crutch. It’s all my own work.
The True Doctor wrote on 4/3/24 1:24 pm:
On 25/02/2024 10:54, The Last Doctor wrote:
<Snip>
Doctor Who - but there has been a massive gear change towards
accepting the truly unbelievable as part of the stories. I’d hoped
that trend - driven mainly by Moffat - had been damped down by
Chibnall (one of the few positives of his era for me), but it seems
RTD is now tripling down on it.
How do we feel about that?
Doctor Who ended in 2017 and this is clearly not real Doctor Who. It
is all part of Clara's dream in Last Christmas, and all we need is
for her to wake up as Capladi walks out of the shower.
Hmm! Do you, Aggy, have a THING about Male Nudity or something??
The Last Doctor let us know:
Matter appears and disappears out of nowhere
as the aliens from beyond space deform and change
size randomly.
Here’s an actual example to illustrate my point:
Matter appears out of nowhere as Kerensky’s chicken grows
to adulthood instead of just starving to death faster. Pure cartoon
logic, but we don’t notice it because of
the technobabble
about time bubbles and because the special effects aren’t realistic
enough to show how unrealistic it is.
The Church on Ruby Road was not entertaining in any way shape
or for. It was a degenerate woke lecture on homosexuality and
social services so as to rot people's minds so they don't
question anything, and sexually groom children.
On 03.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Norman Osborn? THE Green Goblin?!!!
Osborn? Wasn't that some UNIT employee, that then had 2
versions, and they didn't tell which one was whatstheirname
copy of the original?
Or was Clara's last name Osborn? I keep confusing that name.
Artistic licence! Tolkien made some adaptations as he already
had little people in his 'Middle-Earth'.
Goblins are what you find in games, and if you like Fantasy
books and whatnot these days. But not the ones that even got
their own protected area somewhere in Ireland for real!
Basically, Tolkien elves aren't folk tale elves, and neither
are their company from the respective stories.
Mickmane wrote:
On 03.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
The Goblins were able to travel through time so people could
make a logical assumption that they were futuristic aliens.
What?
.. /me reads again... What? ... Hm...
Do you mean that they travelled back to get baby Ruby?
Yes, that's exactly what the Goblins did. The Doctor stopped
them and then left baby Ruby on the doorstep of the church.
Not good enough, and not someone saying so in the show.
It was in the show!!! The Goblins travelled in time. So
logically, aliens of some description... even if they have been
on Earth thousands of years to be part of Earth folk-lore!
Mickmane wrote on 4/3/24 8:05 am:
On 03.03.24, Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
In one of the 'Doctor Who' stories, Daleks (which were calledI mean when was the last time you saw Flying Trains in London or
when did you read in a reputable History Book of 'The Ironsides'
that helped defend London during World War II??
You lost me.
Ironsides by PM 'Winston Churchill') were helping to defend U.K. and
I seem to recall there were 'flying' trains in that episode as well.
And the name of the Episode was ........??
Mickmane wrote:
On 03.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Norman Osborn? THE Green Goblin?!!!
Osborn? Wasn't that some UNIT employee, that then had 2
versions, and they didn't tell which one was whatstheirname
copy of the original?
That was Osgood... like Peter!
Norman Osborn was the "Green Goblin".
Or was Clara's last name Osborn? I keep confusing that name.
That was Oswald... like Mosley!
Artistic licence! Tolkien made some adaptations as he already
had little people in his 'Middle-Earth'.
Goblins are what you find in games, and if you like Fantasy
books and whatnot these days. But not the ones that even got
their own protected area somewhere in Ireland for real!
You've got to look after the 'little people'!
Basically, Tolkien elves aren't folk tale elves, and neither
are their company from the respective stories.
It J.R.R. Tolkien says they're elves, they're elves!
In article <xn0oixmmt2xgvg9001@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Mickmane wrote:
Basically, Tolkien elves aren't folk tale elves, and neither
are their company from the respective stories.
It J.R.R. Tolkien says they're elves, they're elves!
From which serial?
Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
On 05.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Norman Osborn was the "Green Goblin".
I should maybe ask google who that is.
A Spider-Man villain.
Or was Clara's last name Osborn? I keep confusing that name.
That was Oswald... like Mosley!
Mosley?
Oswald Mosley. A British fascist politician from the 1930s.
Mickmane wrote:
On 05.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Mickmane wrote:
Osborn? Wasn't that some UNIT employee, that then had 2
versions, and they didn't tell which one was whatstheirname
copy of the original?
That was Osgood... like Peter!
Oh, now I wonder who Peter Osgood was.
He was my boyhood hero! :-)
On 05.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Mickmane wrote:
On 05.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Mickmane wrote:
Osborn? Wasn't that some UNIT employee, that then had 2
versions, and they didn't tell which one was whatstheirname
copy of the original?
That was Osgood... like Peter!
Oh, now I wonder who Peter Osgood was.
He was my boyhood hero! :-)
You're being cryptic.
On 05.03.24, solar penguin <solar.penguin@gmail.com> wrote:
Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
On 05.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Norman Osborn was the "Green Goblin".I should maybe ask google who that is.
A Spider-Man villain.
Ah! Thanks. :)
Not sure if I watched that movie.
Binky bleated:
In article <xn0oj1kvf6uycmy002@reader.xsnews.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
In article <xn0oj1gts6pj34w000@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Mickmane wrote:
On 05.03.24, solar penguin <solar.penguin@gmail.com> wrote:
Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
On 05.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Norman Osborn was the "Green Goblin".I should maybe ask google who that is.
A Spider-Man villain.
Ah! Thanks. :)
Not sure if I watched that movie.
Well, the Marvel comics originally as well as the Spider-Man
movies. He was a very famous villain... but obviously not
famous enough!
In movies and the 1960s TV show!!
The comics first though, obviously. (The Amazing Spider-Man)
(As everything else was pretty much based on those storylines
anyway.)
1904s and 1950s of course!
How many 1904s were there?
In article <usdidj$1a53m$1@dont-email.me>,
The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
solar penguin <solar.penguin@gmail.com> wrote:
Binky bleated:
In article <xn0oj1kvf6uycmy002@reader.xsnews.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
In article <xn0oj1gts6pj34w000@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Mickmane wrote:
On 05.03.24, solar penguin <solar.penguin@gmail.com> wrote:
Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
On 05.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Norman Osborn was the "Green Goblin".I should maybe ask google who that is.
A Spider-Man villain.
Ah! Thanks. :)
Not sure if I watched that movie.
Well, the Marvel comics originally as well as the Spider-Man
movies. He was a very famous villain... but obviously not
famous enough!
In movies and the 1960s TV show!!
The comics first though, obviously. (The Amazing Spider-Man)
(As everything else was pretty much based on those storylines
anyway.)
1904s and 1950s of course!
How many 1904s were there?
I don’t know but it’s hardly relevant to Spider-Man, a character created in
1962.
And the Bat?
Mickmane wrote:
On 05.03.24, solar penguin <solar.penguin@gmail.com> wrote:
Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
On 05.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Norman Osborn was the "Green Goblin".I should maybe ask google who that is.
A Spider-Man villain.
Ah! Thanks. :)
Not sure if I watched that movie.
Well, the Marvel comics originally as well as the Spider-Man
movies. He was a very famous villain... but obviously not
famous enough!
Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
On 05.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Mickmane wrote:
Oh, now I wonder who Peter Osgood was.
He was my boyhood hero! :-)
You're being cryptic.
A football (soccer) player for Chelsea and England in the 1960s and
1970s.
The True Doctor wrote:
The Church on Ruby Road was not entertaining in any way shape
or for. It was a degenerate woke lecture on homosexuality and
social services so as to rot people's minds so they don't
question anything, and sexually groom children.
I get a bit worried about people who seem so obsessed with the
sexual grooming of children that they examine episodes of a TV
show specifically looking for evidence of it!!!
The Doctor wrote:
In article <xn0oixmgt2x87sn000@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
The True Doctor wrote:
The Church on Ruby Road was not entertaining in any way
shape or for. It was a degenerate woke lecture on
homosexuality and social services so as to rot people's
minds so they don't question anything, and sexually groom
children.
I get a bit worried about people who seem so obsessed with
the sexual grooming of children that they examine episodes
of a TV show specifically looking for evidence of it!!!
Any proof?
You can read can't you?
One person here keeps mentioning sexual-grooming in relation to
episodes of Doctor Who. Nobody else seems to have picked up on
these elements in the show, so that person must be REALLY
looking hard.
Mickmane wrote:
On 08.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Mickmane wrote:
On 05.03.24, solar penguin <solar.penguin@gmail.com> wrote:
A Spider-Man villain.
Ah! Thanks. :)
Not sure if I watched that movie.
Well, the Marvel comics originally as well as the Spider-Man
movies. He was a very famous villain... but obviously not
famous enough!
I'm not sure I'd even heard about Superman, never mind
Spiderman. :)
So, what was it like living on the Moon in the 1970's, 80's and
90's?
Daniel65 wrote:
Blueshirt wrote on 9/3/24 8:52 am:
Mickmane wrote:
On 08.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Well, the Marvel comics originally as well as the
Spider-Man movies. He was a very famous villain... but
obviously not famous enough!
I'm not sure I'd even heard about Superman, never mind
Spiderman. :)
So, what was it like living on the Moon in the 1970's, 80's
and 90's?
Gee Whiz, you started 'Superman' late, Blueshirt!!
George Reeves did Superman from 1951 to 1958!!
I can't read something before I was born! Plus, the comment was
aimed at the 'caveman' that wasn't sure if he'd ever heard of
Superman or Spider-Man! :-)
As a Marvel kid my first experience with Superman was the
cross-over stuff with Spider-Man in the mid-70's. (The Battle of
the Century) I didn't buy DC stuff...
The True Doctor wrote:
On 05/03/2024 11:30, Blueshirt wrote:
One person here keeps mentioning sexual-grooming in relation
to episodes of Doctor Who. Nobody else seems to have picked
up on these elements in the show, so that person must be
REALLY looking hard.
Have you watched YouTube recently? Almost every channel has
picked up on these woke perverts sexually grooming children.
It's obvious that an adult is not going to change their
sexuality because of it, so it's clear that these perverts are
trying to groom children.
YouTube? You take your world view from YouTube content that is
made to be sensationalist to make money for the creators? You do
understand that's how it works, right? (Maybe you don't, as your
YouTube channel doesn't make you any money?)
At a guess I'd say that Doctor Who YouTube content that is plain
and simple doesn't attract as many 'views' as outrageously
titled OTT opinion pieces which other creators just copy. Just
because you watch something on YouTube it doesn't make it
correct!
The True Doctor wrote:
On 04/03/2024 20:15, Blueshirt wrote:
The True Doctor wrote:
The Church on Ruby Road was not entertaining in any way
shape or for. It was a degenerate woke lecture on
homosexuality and social services so as to rot people's
minds so they don't question anything, and sexually groom
children.
I get a bit worried about people who seem so obsessed with
the sexual grooming of children that they examine episodes
of a TV show specifically looking for evidence of it!!!
I get a bit worried when people working on shows made for
children make it so glaringly obvious. Woke perverts.
You are entitled to your view but I wouldn't say it was
"glaringly obvious" as you are the only person that I have seen
mention it! Surely if 'sexual grooming' in Doctor Who was as
blatant as you say it is I would be reading about it in
other places?
The True Doctor wrote:
On 08/03/2024 21:59, Blueshirt wrote:
The True Doctor wrote:
I get a bit worried when people working on shows made for
children make it so glaringly obvious. Woke perverts.
You are entitled to your view but I wouldn't say it was
"glaringly obvious" as you are the only person that I have
seen mention it! Surely if 'sexual grooming' in Doctor Who
was as blatant as you say it is I would be reading about it
in other places?
It's all over YouTube and X/Twitter
Again, seeing something on YouTube and X/Twitter does not make
something true.
Some people are taking elements of what they saw and
sensationalising it for views/likes (etc.) Any normal person
that sees stuff they don't like on a TV show just switches
off... they don't keep watching it again, and again, and again,
and then constantly make YouTube videos about it.
If a TV show offends you, why watch it? The only logical answer
is that you watch it to be offended. I think you are a bit of a
snowflake.
Daniel65 wrote:
Blueshirt wrote on 10/3/24 2:08 am:
Actually the connection was reasonable and legitimate, for
once...
Goblins -> Green Goblin -> Spider-Man
That's fairly direct for a thread on RADW.
Yeap, I'll give you that, but ....
Goblins -> Green Goblin -> Spider-Man -> Batman (or Aquaman or
Superman)
They're only a small step in each case!! ;-P
Noooooooooooooo!
From Marvel to DC is a BIG step! A very big step for a young boy
proud of his "FOOM" membership...
Blueshirt wrote on 11/3/24 5:21 am:
The True Doctor wrote:
On 10/03/2024 16:05, Blueshirt wrote:
<Snip>
Forget 2017 ..... wasn't RTD in-charge for the re-boot back in 2005??If a TV show offends you, why watch it? The only logical
answer is that you watch it to be offended. I think you are
a bit of a snowflake.
Why should I be forced to watch gay porn on Doctor Who because
of being a fan since childhood, when Doctor Who was never
supposed to be about any sort of sexuality, since it was aimed
at children? Perverts like RTD that have admitted to wanting
to groom children in order to get them to discover their
sexuality should be arrested and locked up.
NOBODY is forcing you to watch it! But YOU keep watching it
anyway. Switch it off if you don't like it! After all, according
to you the show finished in 2017. So I find it odd that you
continually watch something you clearly don't like and say
finished seven years ago!
Maybe he's been corrupting 'our' children since then!!
By his own admission he has. He explicitly stated in a episode
of Doctor Who Confidential or some other show or magazine that
he gets a thrill every time he hears of a child that has
discovered that it is homosexual.
Without being familiar with RTD's exact quote, I wouldn't be at
all surprised to find out that's not exactly what he said!
Mickmane wrote:
On 11.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
From Marvel to DC is a BIG step! A very big step for a young
boy proud of his "FOOM" membership...
I couldn't tell you which company made which comic. :)
Are you sure you spent your childhood on Earth?!
What's "FOOM"?
It was a Marvel fan club type of thing with it's own fanzine...
from the 1970's.
My FOOM membership card was one of my most treasure
possessions... until I lost* it at school one day after taking
it in to show off! I was devastated, long before I even knew
what the word meant!!!
* For lost read: Stolen by some snotty nosed little brat jealous
because he didn't have cool stuff.
On 12.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Are you sure you spent your childhood on Earth?!
LOL.
I used to say I'm an alien, abandoned or forgotten here. :P
But for this subject, I fail to see the importance of knowing
who made which comic. :)
I couldn't tell you which company publishes Asterix & Obelix,
or Fix und Foxi, or Dennis the Menace either. That I know who
makes Mikey Mouse is just because it's so intrusively well
known, echoes even entered my cave. ;P
My FOOM membership card was one of my most treasure
possessions... until I lost* it at school one day after
taking it in to show off! I was devastated, long before I
even knew what the word meant!!!
* For lost read: Stolen by some snotty nosed little brat
jealous because he didn't have cool stuff.
Boo.
Did you get it back?
Mickmane wrote:
On 12.03.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
Are you sure you spent your childhood on Earth?!
LOL.
I used to say I'm an alien, abandoned or forgotten here. :P
An alien will fit in well here! RADW is the Liquorice all-sorts
of Usenet.
But for this subject, I fail to see the importance of knowing
who made which comic. :)
For men in their fifties it's completely irrelevant, for ten
year old comic collectors it was a very serious business!!!
I couldn't tell you which company publishes Asterix & Obelix,
or Fix und Foxi, or Dennis the Menace either. That I know who
makes Mikey Mouse is just because it's so intrusively well
known, echoes even entered my cave. ;P
I never read Asterix but I remember the cartoons on the TV. I
wasn't really interested. Denis the Menace was BIG as was "The
Beano" comic that he was in, but I couldn't tell you who
published them either!
He has become a legendary character though as I still hear people
refer to naughty-ish boys by saying "he's a bit of a Denis the
Menace"...
Yes, I mean my mother! ;-)
My FOOM membership card was one of my most treasure
possessions... until I lost* it at school one day after
taking it in to show off! I was devastated, long before I
even knew what the word meant!!!
* For lost read: Stolen by some snotty nosed little brat
jealous because he didn't have cool stuff.
Boo.
Did you get it back?
Nah.
But I never took any of my comics in to school for break time
and others to read. If they wanted to read about Spider-Man, the
Fantastic Four or the X-Men, they could fuck off and buy their
own comics.
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