From: scott@slp53.sl.home

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

On 7/22/2025 6:23 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

“Latest Arctic Ice Measurements Are In! — Someone Get Al Gore A Tissue”

https://clashdaily.com/2025/07/latest-arctic-ice-measurements-are-in-
someone-get-al-gore-a-tissue/

“Before that, Al Gore had confidently predicted that the sea ice would >>> be gone in just a few years, both in his ‘documentary’ (the one that >>> lost some court battles concerning its claims) and his ‘Day After
Tomorrow’ cataclysm movie where the polar ice slid into the ocean,
causing New York to freeze over.”

Ah, Lynn.  You and reality are at best distant acquaintances.

Actually, as this is an SF group, and alternate realities are a common
subject of SF, let us consider an alternate universe where Lynn and
Trump are right about everything.

Let's see. Could we write books based on the following?

(1) Donald Trump is a self-made man

(2) By selling the US oil at below world prices for fifty years, Canada
is ripping off the US.

(3) Biden appointed Jerome Powell

(3a) Biden was president in 2017

(4) The US will fall apart in five years.

(5) Fentanyl is flooding into the US from Canada (maybe we pack it in
the pipelines?).

(5) The world is not growing warmer

(5a) North America's fires are due to lazy people who don't rake
forests, unlike the industrious folk of the 1990s.

(6) USMCA is the greatest trade deal of all time.  All credit to Pres
Trump.

(7) USMCA is the worst trade deal of all time. All blame to someone else.

We could go on.  But what should be the pen name?  I'd go with "Angery
American", but that is taken.

William Hyde

Dude, you wound me unto the quick !

The truth hurts, donut?

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From: jdnicoll@panix.com

In article <109tn3m$2bls2$1@dont-email.me>,
Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

(nonsense from Lynn zappped)

Any chance people can keep their lines short enough I don't
have to refort by hand when replying?

Actually what you consider real I consider working with
the abstraction of the fossil fuels that are ruining the planet
for multi-cellular life.

While a mass extinction would be in many senses undesirable, the
fossil record suggests it's actually pretty hard to kill _all_
of the complex lifeforms. The Permian gave it the good old
college try and only got 57% of biological families, 62% of genera,
81% of marine species, and 70% of terrestrial vertebrate species...
and almost wiped out roaches. Still left 43% of families, 38%
of genera, 19% of marine species, and a good 30% of terrestrial
vertebrate species. And the roaches.

Now, I wouldn't want to be a large mammal while the ecosystems
are imploding but if humans want to make the lifestyle choice
not to be a 1 kg burrowing omnivore, they have to accept the
consequences.

Mars suggests you might be able to sterilize Earth with a large
enough impact, big enough to blow off the atmosphere and quench
the planetary magnetic field and Venus says cracking out all the
CO2 in the crust would also be efficacious.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

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From: scott@slp53.sl.home

Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> writes:

We used to mine asphalt in California but I think all we have left are
seeps.
We also mined mercury and some other things more or less noxious. Some
of the mines were on the rivers that feed Shasta Dam and while they were >plugged
according to the understanding ot the day the souble chemicals may be
leaking out.

A lot of the mercury used for gold refining during the gold
rush was mined in Santa Clara county, there are still contaminated
streams and perc ponds in San Jose. Alamaden Quicksilver
county park contains remnants of some of the QS mines.

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From: kludge@panix.com

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

I consider myself blessed by God. My eyes are failing me so I will be
having cataract surgery in a couple of weeks. I feel that God has
blessed the USA so much that we have surgeons and hospitals that can
help us out.

I can accept this, but it would make me wonder why God has blessed Japan
so much more than the USA in that regard.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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From: kludge@panix.com

Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

On 9/11/25 15:14, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

I consider myself blessed by God. My eyes are failing me so I will be
having cataract surgery in a couple of weeks. I feel that God has
blessed the USA so much that we have surgeons and hospitals that can
help us out.

I can accept this, but it would make me wonder why God has blessed Japan
so much more than the USA in that regard.

Really Japan is ahead on surgeons and hospitals?
If so the following may explain it.

It is ahead in the matter of eye surgery. I can't speak about other procedures. I have extreme nearsightedness which runs in the family and several ancestors with retinal detachment as a result. I spoke with a
number of optometrists who all told me that it was a shame I wasn't in Japan.

The US is a really good place to be very very sick, but it's a pretty
awful place to be slightly sick. The state of the art in medical care in
the US is very high, but most people don't get or need the state of the
art and it doesn't trickle down very well.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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From: scott@slp53.sl.home

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:

On 9/12/2025 12:09 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
...

     I am not well off so I have to wait until nearly the end of

November

for my cataract evaluation.  I hope that it will be operable as
something is
obscuring my vision which leds to frequent un-noticed typos and I have
to look over each post carefully to make sure I have not inadvertantly
typed "fruit for "free".  I use this example because in a SF book the
error
was made and went to final publication so that the free men became fruit >>> men.

For what it is worth I had cataract surgery (lens replacement) on my
eyes last year.  I had been forced to wait a LONG time before doing so
because of lack of health insurance.  By the time I was finally able to
get the surgeries I was basically blind in one eye and losing vision in
the other.  The lens replacement surgery is pretty close to routine now
with the odds of a bad outcome being very low.

I was "lucky" in that I had finally gotten a job that paid enough that
with the discounts/subsidies available on the ACA Marketplace I could
scrape together enough to pay premiums and the "out of pocket" expenses.

But it was close to too late.  If I had to do it with what the Big Ugly
Bill is doing to health insurance I wouldn't have been able to and would
be completely blind now.

Lynn may feel blessed but the politicians and policies he so strongly
supports are deliberately taking healthcare away from as many as
possible.  In large part because the MAGA movement is partly based on
the old Eugenics "let the weak die off!" with the wealthy and lucky
helping to kill them off.

Bobbie, I hope that you get your cataract fixed. They are a total mess.

Paying for medical health is a total nightmare in the USA. I have no
idea how to fix this. Even Medicare For All will be a disaster in my
opinion as that will be a Single Payer system.

Why would you think a single payer system would be a disaster?

50% of your medical costs (or more) are simple overhead from each
of the dozen intermediaries that are involved in paying the providers.

The for-profit insurance company (e.g. united health) absorbs almost
30% of your premium, just so they can deny coverage to preserve their
profits and princely CEO compensation.

Medicare overhead is in the single digit percentage.

Then there is the overhead for the physicican billing
service, and all the arcane billing intermediaries, the
transportation (ambulance) providers.

If medical professionals were saleried generously, rather than compensated
per procedure, costs would go down considerably.

If the government covered part or all of medical school, it would
open up opportunities for the non-wealthy to serve. Perhaps with
certain requirements on serving underserved areas for some period
of time (e.g. all the rural and suburban hospitals that will likely
close due to the Big Ugly Bill).

? For me, I love being on

Medicare but my Part B, part D, and Part G are costing me $350 per

Yes, the insurance companies lobbied congress to make sure they
could suck more dollars out of the system, rather than medicare
just handling it all themselves, like they used to before the
GOP dismantled that and replaced it with private for-profit
companies, inevitably leading to higher costs and lesser benefit
to the retired.

month. My wife is the same. A bargain compared to my $1,200/month that
I was paying for Obamacare. I do pay $550 per month to Obamacare for
our disabled 37 year old daughter who lives with my wife and I.

I was on Obamacare for the last two years before I turned 65.

It is called the Affordable Care Act, and originate in
congress.

It sucked
and it sucked bad. I lost all of my doctors except my eye doctor. I
lost my favorite hospital.

A common complaint from conservatives. Not backed up by much
non-anecdotal evidence, however.

I distinctly remember Obama stating that if
I wanted to keep my doctor, I could.

Another misattribution by conservative commentators, not backed
by actual fact.

He lied.

Congress didn't craft the ACA to allowed you to keep your
doctor, if that indeed was the case. For which the blame
should be assigned to congress. Yes, the President was
incorrect in his statements (many of which preceeded the
passage of the ACA). But ultimately, law is created by
congress (although the orange clown is testing that part of
the constitution, to our collective detriment).

"The Affordable Care Act tried to allow existing health plans
to continue under a complicated process called "grandfathering,"
which basically said insurance companies could keep selling plans
if they followed certain rules."

"The problem for insurers was that the ACA rules were strict.
If the plans deviated even a little, they would lose their
grandfathered status. In practice, that meant insurers canceled
plans that didn't meet new standards."

Again, blame the congress who wrote and passed the affordable
care act.

I feel blessed because I survived two heart attacks with the aid of much >medical intervention at ages 49 and 53. My great grandfather passed
away in 1937 at the age of 57 with his second heart attack, just a few
miles away from here. Maybe I will continue to survive my heart issues
and now my new lung issues for a while.

We've all benefited from the advances in medical care during our
lifetime. Much of which is threatened by the current congress
and administration. Stents, in particular have extended lifespans
for heart patients significantly since they were approved by the
FDA in 1994.

But so long as the system is profit driven, outcomes will favor
profitibility, rather than the health of the patient, sadly.

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From: kludge@panix.com

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

Our current medical science can only extend life by 20 to 40 years. You
will still have to face God someday.

Sometimes much much longer. A lot of children who would have died at birth
now live to a long and ripe age.

Don't think of medical science as extending the -maximum- lifespan because really we don't have any way of doing much of that. Think of it as extending the -average- lifespan and it does that very very well.

Meaning more people will face God as older and hopefully wiser people, rather than having to face Him as an infant.

So much of that benefit comes from public health improvements too. Not
that medication and surgery developments haven't helped a lot.

God has blessed many countries over the millennia, evil countries too.
Read the Book Of Daniel, it is amazing.

There are no evil countries, there are only evil people. And maybe there
are only misguided people.

I am reminded of a story that takes place on a generation ship, written from the standpoint of a nearly-blind man who is given a handmade pair of glasses
by a physician who tries to keep alive some of the old knowledge. But I
cannot for the life of me remember the name of the thing.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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From: robertaw@drizzle.com

In article <2k2bckpkfv5414dc2s4g4ovdgh4ti023pc@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 12 Sep 2025 19:40:20 -0400, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

Scott Lurndal wrote:

(Snip)

<snippo more>

Perhaps he realizes, as I do, that this proposal:

If medical professionals were saleried generously, rather than compensated >> per procedure, costs would go down considerably.

means that the gummint would have to take over /all medical
facilities, practitioners, suppliers, other parts of our medical
industry/. Make no mistake: this isn't about insurance; it's about
control. Granted, we would (after some effort) have an actual medical
system.

Not necessarily; Group Health paid its doctors and staff salaries and
did not compensate them per procedure. That didn't stop their costs over decades increasing at about the same rate as every other
hospital/physician group in the USA.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. -------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

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From: kludge@panix.com

Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

If medical professionals were saleried generously, rather than compensated
per procedure, costs would go down considerably.

means that the gummint would have to take over /all medical
facilities, practitioners, suppliers, other parts of our medical
industry/. Make no mistake: this isn't about insurance; it's about
control. Granted, we would (after some effort) have an actual medical
system.

Not necessarily; Group Health paid its doctors and staff salaries and
did not compensate them per procedure. That didn't stop their costs over >decades increasing at about the same rate as every other
hospital/physician group in the USA.

This is true and it likely resulted in a lot fewer unnecessary surgical procedure but probably no fewer unnecessary tests. Admittedly it's hard
to really know when a test is actually unnecessary which is part of why
they get done.

Also... the government does not need to take over anything other than
payment. It's not as if the rest of the developed world doesn't already
have working systems. Copy the Canadian system. Copy the UK system but
fund it properly. Even the Italians, who are usually the poster children
for dysfunctional governments, have a functional and effective national
health care system.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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From: scott@slp53.sl.home

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:

Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

If medical professionals were saleried generously, rather than compensated
per procedure, costs would go down considerably.

means that the gummint would have to take over /all medical
facilities, practitioners, suppliers, other parts of our medical
industry/. Make no mistake: this isn't about insurance; it's about
control. Granted, we would (after some effort) have an actual medical
system.

Not necessarily; Group Health paid its doctors and staff salaries and
did not compensate them per procedure. That didn't stop their costs over >>decades increasing at about the same rate as every other
hospital/physician group in the USA.

This is true and it likely resulted in a lot fewer unnecessary surgical >procedure but probably no fewer unnecessary tests. Admittedly it's hard
to really know when a test is actually unnecessary which is part of why
they get done.

The other factor to consider is that the insurance company likely
pocketed the difference rather than reducing cost to the
patient.

Also... the government does not need to take over anything other than >payment. It's not as if the rest of the developed world doesn't already
have working systems. Copy the Canadian system. Copy the UK system but
fund it properly. Even the Italians, who are usually the poster children
for dysfunctional governments, have a functional and effective national >health care system.

Indeed. And Italy will happily treat visitors as well.

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From: psperson@old.netcom.invalid

On Sat, 13 Sep 2025 09:48:19 -0700, Robert Woodward
<robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

In article <2k2bckpkfv5414dc2s4g4ovdgh4ti023pc@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 12 Sep 2025 19:40:20 -0400, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

Scott Lurndal wrote:

(Snip)

<snippo more>


Perhaps he realizes, as I do, that this proposal:

If medical professionals were saleried generously, rather than compensated
per procedure, costs would go down considerably.

means that the gummint would have to take over /all medical
facilities, practitioners, suppliers, other parts of our medical
industry/. Make no mistake: this isn't about insurance; it's about
control. Granted, we would (after some effort) have an actual medical
system.

Not necessarily; Group Health paid its doctors and staff salaries and
did not compensate them per procedure. That didn't stop their costs over >decades increasing at about the same rate as every other
hospital/physician group in the USA.

They were buying everything from basic utilities (power/water/waste
disposal) to this years brand-new equipment from the same suppliers as everybody else.

Medical inflation is so bad it /isn't even included/ in the main
inflation indexes. This is why many Social Security recipients
eventually have to choose between food and medicine: the COLAs are
based on a measure of inflation that does not include Medical
inflation -- and yet Medical tends to become a larger part of their
budget the older they get.

If Social Security had tried to keep up with medical costs, it would
have gone broke decades ago.

Back when I had a dentist, they (there were several) got a new machine
that would allow them to create (some) crowns in-house at considerable
savings -- to them. When I asked how much of the savings they were
passing on to their patients the dentist looked at me as if I were
speaking an unknown language.

Which, in a sense, I was: I was suggesting that a benefit accrue to
someone other than himself.

That's not why I left. But it did contribute to the deterioration of
my relationship with them.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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From: bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com

On 9/14/25 08:22, Scott Lurndal wrote:

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:

Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

If medical professionals were saleried generously, rather than compensated
per procedure, costs would go down considerably.

means that the gummint would have to take over /all medical
facilities, practitioners, suppliers, other parts of our medical
industry/. Make no mistake: this isn't about insurance; it's about
control. Granted, we would (after some effort) have an actual medical
system.

Not necessarily; Group Health paid its doctors and staff salaries and
did not compensate them per procedure. That didn't stop their costs over >>> decades increasing at about the same rate as every other
hospital/physician group in the USA.

This is true and it likely resulted in a lot fewer unnecessary surgical
procedure but probably no fewer unnecessary tests. Admittedly it's hard
to really know when a test is actually unnecessary which is part of why
they get done.

The other factor to consider is that the insurance company likely
pocketed the difference rather than reducing cost to the
patient.

Also... the government does not need to take over anything other than
payment. It's not as if the rest of the developed world doesn't already
have working systems. Copy the Canadian system. Copy the UK system but
fund it properly. Even the Italians, who are usually the poster children
for dysfunctional governments, have a functional and effective national
health care system.

Indeed. And Italy will happily treat visitors as well.

Sensible people realize that Public Health starts with individual health.
so sensible medicince demands the treatment of all no matter their residence status or ability to pay. You let a man with a deadly disease walk out into the public and infect other people and you are doing very stupid medicine.
So Trump et al insist that the taxpaying immigrants without documents
should be treated worse than criminals and get no health care.
Not that their employers may treat them like paid slaves as they
did whan i was young.

bliss

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From: kludge@panix.com

In article <10aarl6$2cmqi$3@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote: >On 15/09/25 03:17, Paul S Person wrote:

On Sat, 13 Sep 2025 21:12:29 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Sep 2025 18:14:05 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

I can accept this, but it would make me wonder why God has blessed Japan >>>> so much more than the USA in that regard.

Hmmm. I had cataract surgery 3 weeks ago. Does that "prove" Canada is
equally blessed by God? Uh...

At the moment, perhaps, even more so, if that were possible.

We, after all, have Trump; Canada does not.

Canada probably isn't stupid enough to vote for Trump.
(Nor Biden.)

Toronto voted for Rob Ford, though.
The man gives crackhead a bad name.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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From: scott@slp53.sl.home

Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> writes:

Even in Southern California we
have the Crystal Cathedral which I have heard of but never
seen

I was a guest at a (non-denominational) wedding at the Crystal Cathedral circa 1989. Impressive building. IIRC, the original
TV evangalist (Schuller) sect that built it is long gone. Wikipedia
suggests it is now a Catholic cathedral, after $100 million in
purchase and renovation costs.

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