Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while-driving-10751844.html
In article <ml852sFtme9U2@mid.individual.net>,
Mark Jackson <mjackson@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 7:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while-driving-10751844.html
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
"It's important for devices to have internet connectivity so the
manufacturer can patch remote exploits." - Randall Munroe
http://columbiaclosings.com/pix/memes/just_say_no.png
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while-driving-10751844.html
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
In article <ml852sFtme9U2@mid.individual.net>,
Mark Jackson <mjackson@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 7:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while-dri ving-10751844.html
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
"It's important for devices to have internet connectivity so the >>manufacturer can patch remote exploits." - Randall Munroe
http://columbiaclosings.com/pix/memes/just_say_no.png
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while-drivi ng-10751844.html
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
Yeep !
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while-driving-10751844.html
In article <ml852sFtme9U2@mid.individual.net>,
Mark Jackson <mjackson@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 7:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while-driving-10751844.html
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
"It's important for devices to have internet connectivity so the
manufacturer can patch remote exploits." - Randall Munroe
http://columbiaclosings.com/pix/memes/just_say_no.png
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 16:14:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
Do they at least move to the side of the road and shut down the
vehicle while doing so?
Or do they just let the vehicle go merrily on by itself while the
update is being done?
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while-driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West
Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after leaving
the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter
how weird the alternatives get.
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while-driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West
Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after leaving
the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter
how weird the alternatives get. (Currently, I can walk to the stores I
need to get to. And use Amazon for what they don't have. But who can
say what the future holds?)
On 15/10/2025 17:16, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while-driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West
Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after leaving
the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter
how weird the alternatives get.
A car that does the driving for you?
I don't know if any are also offering to go off afterwards to park or recharge themselves. Though I suppose that the current autonomous taxis
in some cities must be doing something like that?
Then again, I couldn't find out what vehicles run on in the future
Mega-City of "Judge Dredd" - they could be powered from the road - but
with a shortage of apartments (at least perhaps until a series of catasrophes reduces the population cumulatively?), they just live in
their vehicle. And with not enough parking space either - these are
literal mobile homes.
Unless I imagined this. Somebody did.
They may have been called mo-pads?
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 16:14:59 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too. Very annoying.
Do they at least move to the side of the road and shut down the
vehicle while doing so?
Or do they just let the vehicle go merrily on by itself while the
update is being done?
On 15/10/2025 17:16, Paul S Person wrote:Yeep indeed!
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
ÿÿÿÿÿ https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too.ÿ Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while-
driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West
Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after leaving
the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter
how weird the alternatives get.
A car that does the driving for you?
I don't know if any are also offering to go off
afterwards to park or recharge themselves.
Though I suppose that the current autonomous
taxis in some cities must be doing something
like that?
On 10/15/2025 3:47 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
On 15/10/2025 17:16, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too.ÿ Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid >>>>> drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while- >>>>> driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
Yeep indeed!
My car is currently downloading an OTA update, but it wont
install it until I give permission, and wouldn't do so while
driving.
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West
Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after leaving
the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter
how weird the alternatives get.
A car that does the driving for you?
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
I drive a Tesla with "Supervised Full Self driving". Yes, that's
a bit of a contradiction in terms.
I don't have the latest hardware or software. While I absolutely
have to ride herd on it, making sure its not messing up, for 99%
of the time on the road, it does just fine, and *greatly*
reduces driving fatigue.
Its gotten noticeably better over the 6 months I've been using FSD.
The problems I've seen are failure to recognize emergency vehicles and school busses, occasional use of the incorrect lanes at intersections,
and being super hesitant at unprotected left turns. All of which are apparently addressed in v14 (I'm at v12)
I don't know if any are also offering to go off afterwards to park or
recharge themselves. Though I suppose that the current autonomous taxis
in some cities must be doing something like that?
The latest version (14.1), which I don't have, apparently does have a 'banish' function, whereby you can cause it to go out and find a
parking spot autonomously. I don't know in what circumstances it can be used, or how well it works.
My car already has a 'summon' function, which allows me to cause the
car to leave parking and come to me, based on the GPS location in my
phone. It works, but its mostly a party trick.
It can't charge itself. Apparently the cybercabs that Tesla has been
showing off can, by parking over an inductive pad.
pt
On 10/14/2025 7:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-while-driving-10751844.html
That sucks.
In my Tesla, it does need WiFi connectivity to download an OTA update,
but I could just park near Starbucks or use the hotspot on my phone
if I didn't want to give it the house WiFi.
It will download updates autonomously, but it won't apply them
until I tell it to. I typically do so at 11:30 PM (which is the
default time it offers). Takes about 45 minutes.
On 10/15/2025 3:47 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
On 15/10/2025 17:16, Paul S Person wrote:Yeep indeed!
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
ÿÿÿÿÿ https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too.ÿ Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid >>>>> drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-
while- driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
My car is currently downloading an OTA update, but it wont
install it until I give permission, and wouldn't do so while
driving.
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West
Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after leaving
the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter
how weird the alternatives get.
A car that does the driving for you?
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
I drive a Tesla with "Supervised Full Self driving". Yes, that's
a bit of a contradiction in terms.
I don't have the latest hardware or software. While I absolutely
have to ride herd on it, making sure its not messing up, for 99%
of the time on the road, it does just fine, and *greatly*
reduces driving fatigue. Its gotten noticeably better over the 6
months I've been using FSD.
The problems I've seen are failure to recognize emergency vehicles
and school busses, occasional use of the incorrect lanes at
intersections, and being super hesitant at unprotected left
turns. All of which are apparently addressed in v14 (I'm at v12)
I don't know if any are also offering to go off
afterwards to park or recharge themselves.
Though I suppose that the current autonomous
taxis in some cities must be doing something
like that?
The latest version (14.1), which I don't have, apparently
does have a 'banish' function, whereby you can cause it to
go out and find a parking spot
autonomously. I don't know in what circumstances it can
be used, or how well it works.
My car already has a 'summon' function, which allows me
to cause the car to leave parking and come to me, based
on the GPS location in my phone. It works, but its mostly
a party trick.
It can't charge itself. Apparently the cybercabs that
Tesla has been showing off can, by parking over an
inductive pad.
On 10/15/2025 6:52 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 10/15/2025 3:47 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:Self-driving cars such as Waymo taxis have a number of other problems
On 15/10/2025 17:16, Paul S Person wrote:Yeep indeed!
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
ÿÿÿÿÿ https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too.ÿ Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid >>>>>> drives in the USA to fail ? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-
while- driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
My car is currently downloading an OTA update, but it wont
install it until I give permission, and wouldn't do so while
driving.
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West
Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after leaving >>>> the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter
how weird the alternatives get.
A car that does the driving for you?
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
I drive a Tesla with "Supervised Full Self driving". Yes, that's
a bit of a contradiction in terms.
I don't have the latest hardware or software. While I absolutely
have to ride herd on it, making sure its not messing up, for 99%
of the time on the road, it does just fine, and *greatly*
reduces driving fatigue. Its gotten noticeably better over the 6
months I've been using FSD.
The problems I've seen are failure to recognize emergency vehicles
and school busses, occasional use of the incorrect lanes at
intersections, and being super hesitant at unprotected left
turns. All of which are apparently addressed in v14 (I'm at v12)
I don't know if any are also offering to go off
afterwards to park or recharge themselves.
Though I suppose that the current autonomous
taxis in some cities must be doing something
like that?
The latest version (14.1), which I don't have, apparently
does have a 'banish' function, whereby you can cause it to
go out and find a parking spot
autonomously. I don't know in what circumstances it can
be used, or how well it works.
My car already has a 'summon' function, which allows me
to cause the car to leave parking and come to me, based
on the GPS location in my phone. It works, but its mostly
a party trick.
It can't charge itself. Apparently the cybercabs that
Tesla has been showing off can, by parking over an
inductive pad.
with things like making U-turns in the middle of blocks, stopping in the middle of the street for people to get out and such.ÿ Enough so that new laws are being debated about how to ticket the owners of them for
traffic violations.
On 2025-10-16 01:52:22 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/15/2025 3:47 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
On 15/10/2025 17:16, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too.?ÿ Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ƒ?? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid >>>>>> drives in the USA to fail ƒ?? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps-
while- driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
Yeep indeed!
My car is currently downloading an OTA update, but it wont
install it until I give permission, and wouldn't do so while
driving.
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West
Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after leaving >>>> the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter
how weird the alternatives get.
A car that does the driving for you?
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
I drive a Tesla with "Supervised Full Self driving". Yes, that's
a bit of a contradiction in terms.
I don't have the latest hardware or software. While I absolutely
have to ride herd on it, making sure its not messing up, for 99%
of the time on the road, it does just fine, and *greatly*
reduces driving fatigue.
Not if you using it properly it won't, since you *meant* to be paying
just as much attention as if you're driving ... you may as well just
drive it yourself anyway. A pointless waste of an extra NZ$11,000 to
have the idiocy included.
On 15/10/2025 17:16, Paul S Person wrote:
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter
how weird the alternatives get.
A car that does the driving for you?
I don't know if any are also offering to go off
afterwards to park or recharge themselves.
Though I suppose that the current autonomous
taxis in some cities must be doing something
like that?
Then again, I couldn't find out what vehicles
run on in the future Mega-City of "Judge Dredd" -
they could be powered from the road - but with
a shortage of apartments (at least perhaps until
a series of catasrophes reduces the population
cumulatively?), they just live in their vehicle.
And with not enough parking space either - these
are literal mobile homes.
Unless I imagined this. Somebody did.
They may have been called mo-pads?
There have been news stories about idiotic self-driving cars /
robo-taxis that have caused issues. There was one were lots of them all >seemed to congregate in a particular street, often honking their horns,
etc. which annoyed the people living there.
Then again, I couldn't find out what vehicles run on in the future
Mega-City of "Judge Dredd" - they could be powered from the road - but
with a shortage of apartments (at least perhaps until a series of
catasrophes reduces the population cumulatively?), they just live in
their vehicle. And with not enough parking space either - these are
literal mobile homes.
There are trials in various countries of electric cars that arespots.
continuously charged driving along the road, but such a scheme would be >hideously expensive and distruptive while roads are dug up to bury the >cables and charging pads, so is unlikely to every happen except in
small specific areas.
Another option being trialled is wireless charging pads in parking
The reality is that the silly greeny push towards electric cars creates
far more peoroblems than they "solve", and don't even solve the ones
claimed anyway.
I'm wondering if the dealers can load the old version of the software
via their tool for the affected users, it definitely should be
possible in a sane world but, well, car manufacturer and sanity isn't
always compatible.
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 10:26:16 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
wrote:
<snippo, self-driving vehicles>
There have been news stories about idiotic self-driving cars /
robo-taxis that have caused issues. There was one were lots of them all
seemed to congregate in a particular street, often honking their horns,
etc. which annoyed the people living there.
This is a phenomenon mention in the film /I, Robot/: the tendency to congregate.
I see it most weeks at the laundromat: the wheeled clothes baskets
tend to end up in the same area. Sometimes there are little ones among
the big ones, looking a lot like a family. But of course they are not.
Personally, I've always felt that a 3" mortar was the obvious solution
to such problems, whether from vehicle or house. But that's just me.
Then again, I couldn't find out what vehicles run on in the future
Mega-City of "Judge Dredd" - they could be powered from the road - but
with a shortage of apartments (at least perhaps until a series of
catasrophes reduces the population cumulatively?), they just live in
their vehicle. And with not enough parking space either - these are
literal mobile homes.
<snippo pun>
There are trials in various countries of electric cars that are
continuously charged driving along the road, but such a scheme would be
hideously expensive and distruptive while roads are dug up to bury the
cables and charging pads, so is unlikely to every happen except in
small specific areas.
Another option being trialled is wireless charging pads in parking spots.
Our city is installing charging stations along some streets. But I
don't think there is any "wireless" about it.
As you note rather hysterically below, this is stressing the
electrical grid. The server farms and "AI" chatbots aren't helping any either.
One interesting factoid is that studies have apparently shown that
grazing animals (sheep, cows) actually do better grazing around power-producing windmills. Which means the landowners can lease the
land twice: once for the windmills, and once for the grazing. Well,
maybe.
The reality is that the silly greeny push towards electric cars creates
far more peoroblems than they "solve", and don't even solve the ones
claimed anyway.
Careful: your ideology is showing. And that kills worthwhile
discussion.
But both are improving as time goes by. My car installed an OTA
update just last night.
Do you think these are insoluble problems?
On 10/16/25 09:25, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 10:26:16 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
wrote:
<snippo, self-driving vehicles>
There have been news stories about idiotic self-driving cars /
robo-taxis that have caused issues. There was one were lots of them all
seemed to congregate in a particular street, often honking their horns,
etc. which annoyed the people living there.
This is a phenomenon mention in the film /I, Robot/: the tendency to
congregate.
I see it most weeks at the laundromat: the wheeled clothes baskets
tend to end up in the same area. Sometimes there are little ones among
the big ones, looking a lot like a family. But of course they are not.
Personally, I've always felt that a 3" mortar was the obvious solution
to such problems, whether from vehicle or house. But that's just me.
Then again, I couldn't find out what vehicles run on in the future
Mega-City of "Judge Dredd" - they could be powered from the road - but >>>> with a shortage of apartments (at least perhaps until a series of
catasrophes reduces the population cumulatively?), they just live in
their vehicle. And with not enough parking space either - these are
literal mobile homes.
<snippo pun>
There are trials in various countries of electric cars that are
continuously charged driving along the road, but such a scheme would be
hideously expensive and distruptive while roads are dug up to bury the
cables and charging pads, so is unlikely to every happen except in
small specific areas.
Another option being trialled is wireless charging pads in parking
spots.
Our city is installing charging stations along some streets. But I
don't think there is any "wireless" about it.
As you note rather hysterically below, this is stressing the
electrical grid. The server farms and "AI" chatbots aren't helping any
either.
One interesting factoid is that studies have apparently shown that
grazing animals (sheep, cows) actually do better grazing around
power-producing windmills. Which means the landowners can lease the
land twice: once for the windmills, and once for the grazing. Well,
maybe.
The reality is that the silly greeny push towards electric cars creates
far more peoroblems than they "solve", and don't even solve the ones
claimed anyway.
Careful: your ideology is showing. And that kills worthwhile
discussion.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ Also he should use his spell checker.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ As for the electric vehicles they solve a big problem in
California
ÿwhich is the price of the gasoline used in IC vehicles.ÿ If widely enough
ÿ adopted they may permit a modicum of the civilization we are used to
ÿ to continue for some time before the rise in Global Temperatures make
ÿ continuing to waste oxygen on IC engines clearly dangerous.
ÿÿÿÿbliss
...I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
We are all going to die.
On 10/16/2025 2:04 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
We are all going to die.
You are Senator Joni Ernst, and I claim my œ5.
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
But both are improving as time goes by. My car installed an OTA
update just last night.
Do you think these are insoluble problems?
I think there are insoluble problems with self-driving.
1. Human drivers are lousy.
2. Self-driving cars have to share the road with human drivers
3. Human drivers will always blame self-driving cars in an accident; that
is the standard for driving quality is much higher for the self-driving
car than for a human being.
On 10/16/2025 11:46 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 10/16/25 09:25, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 10:26:16 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
wrote:
<snippo, self-driving vehicles>
There have been news stories about idiotic self-driving cars /
robo-taxis that have caused issues. There was one were lots of them all >>>> seemed to congregate in a particular street, often honking their horns, >>>> etc. which annoyed the people living there.
This is a phenomenon mention in the film /I, Robot/: the tendency to
congregate.
I see it most weeks at the laundromat: the wheeled clothes baskets
tend to end up in the same area. Sometimes there are little ones among
the big ones, looking a lot like a family. But of course they are not.
Personally, I've always felt that a 3" mortar was the obvious solution
to such problems, whether from vehicle or house. But that's just me.
Then again, I couldn't find out what vehicles run on in the future
Mega-City of "Judge Dredd" - they could be powered from the road - but >>>>> with a shortage of apartments (at least perhaps until a series of
catasrophes reduces the population cumulatively?), they just live in >>>>> their vehicle. And with not enough parking space either - these are
literal mobile homes.
<snippo pun>
There are trials in various countries of electric cars that are
continuously charged driving along the road, but such a scheme would be >>>> hideously expensive and distruptive while roads are dug up to bury the >>>> cables and charging pads, so is unlikely to every happen except in
small specific areas.
Another option being trialled is wireless charging pads in parking
spots.
Our city is installing charging stations along some streets. But I
don't think there is any "wireless" about it.
As you note rather hysterically below, this is stressing the
electrical grid. The server farms and "AI" chatbots aren't helping any
either.
One interesting factoid is that studies have apparently shown that
grazing animals (sheep, cows) actually do better grazing around
power-producing windmills. Which means the landowners can lease the
land twice: once for the windmills, and once for the grazing. Well,
maybe.
The reality is that the silly greeny push towards electric cars creates >>>> far more peoroblems than they "solve", and don't even solve the ones
claimed anyway.
Careful: your ideology is showing. And that kills worthwhile
discussion.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ Also he should use his spell checker.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ As for the electric vehicles they solve a big problem in
California
ÿÿwhich is the price of the gasoline used in IC vehicles.ÿ If widely
enough
ÿÿ adopted they may permit a modicum of the civilization we are used to
ÿÿ to continue for some time before the rise in Global Temperatures make
ÿÿ continuing to waste oxygen on IC engines clearly dangerous.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
We are all going to die.
Lynn
On 10/16/2025 12:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
...
...I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Wow, you have zero credibility with your delusions about Musk.ÿ Makes me wonder about anything else that you say.
Lynn
On 10/16/2025 1:12 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
But both are improving as time goes by. My car installed an OTA
update just last night.
Do you think these are insoluble problems?
I think there are insoluble problems with self-driving.
1. Human drivers are lousy.
2. Self-driving cars have to share the road with human drivers
3. Human drivers will always blame self-driving cars in an accident; that
is the standard for driving quality is much higher for the self-driving
car than for a human being.
Tesla claims (and I take the claim with a LOT of salt) that the
cybercabs in Austin are having incidents at 1/10 to 1/8 the rate of
human driven cars. Again, I'd like to see some independent
confirmation.
Once automated driving systems are demonstrably safer than human
drivers, the insurance companies will drive adoption by charging
higher premiums if you insist on driving manually.
pt
On 10/16/2025 1:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 01:52:22 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/15/2025 3:47 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
On 15/10/2025 17:16, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too.?ÿ Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ƒ?? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid >>>>>>> drives in the USA to fail ƒ?? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps- while- >>>>>>> driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
Yeep indeed!
My car is currently downloading an OTA update, but it wont
install it until I give permission, and wouldn't do so while
driving.
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West
Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after leaving >>>>> the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter >>>>> how weird the alternatives get.
A car that does the driving for you?
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Really? Starlink isn't hooking up people to the Internet all over the
world?
SpaceX isn't providing the cheapest space launches, and is so popular
it is now the miles-ahead launch provider in the world, with more than
half of total launches worldwide?
Tesla cars don't continue to rack up awards?
I'll grant you X/Twitter, which he turned into a cesspool.
Your hatred of Musk's (absolutely atrocious) politics have clearly
clouded your judgement. I hate his politics too.
When I bought my car in 2019, Greta Thunberg was driving one, and
Musk was the darling of climate change activists. It remains the
best car I've ever owned, and actually improves with time.
Though Musk took a huge face/heel turn, the car didn't.
I drive a Tesla with "Supervised Full Self driving". Yes, that's
a bit of a contradiction in terms.
I don't have the latest hardware or software. While I absolutely
have to ride herd on it, making sure its not messing up, for 99%
of the time on the road, it does just fine, and *greatly*
reduces driving fatigue.
Not if you using it properly it won't, since you *meant* to be paying
just as much attention as if you're driving ... you may as well just
drive it yourself anyway. A pointless waste of an extra NZ$11,000 to
have the idiocy included.
I'm actually paying $99 USD/month for FSD.
Full purchase would be 8k.
You are speaking with zero experience, while I know what I'm talking
about from personal experience.
Yes, I have to pay attention, but constantly having to adjust speed and steering are a cognitive load as well as paying attention for upcoming trouble.
Even when I had 'Autopilot', which only manages speed and lane-keeping,
but not navigation and intersections, I arrived at the end of a long
drive much less tired then when driving manually.
It continues to improve. I only hope Musk does, too.
pt
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 10:26:16 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
wrote:
<snippo, self-driving vehicles>
There have been news stories about idiotic self-driving cars
robo-taxis that have caused issues. There was one were lots of themhorns,>etc. which annoyed the people living there.
seemed to congregate in a particular street, often honking their
This is a phenomenon mention in the film /I, Robot/: the tendency to congregate.
I see it most weeks at the laundromat: the wheeled clothes baskets
tend to end up in the same area. Sometimes there are little ones among
the big ones, looking a lot like a family. But of course they are not.
Personally, I've always felt that a 3" mortar was the obvious solution
to such problems, whether from vehicle or house. But that's just me.
Then again, I couldn't find out what vehicles run on in the future>>
Mega-City of "Judge Dredd" - they could be powered from the road -
with a shortage of apartments (at least perhaps until a series
catasrophes reduces the population cumulatively?), they just live
their vehicle. And with not enough parking space either - these
literal mobile homes.
<snippo pun>
There are trials in various countries of electric cars that
continuously charged driving along the road, but such a schemewould be>hideously expensive and distruptive while roads are dug up to
bury the>cables and charging pads, so is unlikely to every happen
except in>small specific areas.
Another option being trialled is wireless charging pads in parking spots.
Our city is installing charging stations along some streets. But I
don't think there is any "wireless" about it.
As you note rather hysterically below, this is stressing the
electrical grid. The server farms and "AI" chatbots aren't helping any either.
One interesting factoid is that studies have apparently shown that
grazing animals (sheep, cows) actually do better grazing around power-producing windmills. Which means the landowners can lease the
land twice: once for the windmills, and once for the grazing. Well,
maybe.
The reality is that the silly greeny push towards electric cars creates
far more peoroblems than they "solve", and don't even solve the ones
claimed anyway.
Careful: your ideology is showing. And that kills worthwhile
discussion.
As for the electric vehicles they solve a big problem in California
which is the price of the gasoline used in IC vehicles. If widely
enough adopted they may permit a modicum of the civilization we are
used to to continue for some time before the rise in Global
Temperatures make continuing to waste oxygen on IC engines clearly dangerous.
On 10/16/25 11:04, Lynn McGuire wrote:<snip>
<snip>
We are all going to die.
Lynn
Yes we are all going to die but does that mean we must leave a mess
that the Earth may never recover from behind us when we go?
On 10/16/2025 12:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
...
...I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Wow, you have zero credibility with your delusions about Musk. Makes
me wonder about anything else that you say.
Lynn
On 2025-10-16 20:55:06 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said:
On 10/16/25 11:04, Lynn McGuire wrote:<snip>
<snip>
We are all going to die.
Lynn
Yes we are all going to die but does that mean we must leave a mess
that the Earth may never recover from behind us when we go?
The Earth will always recover eventually, thanks to Mother Nature.
Humans aren't worth bothering to save - they're too greedy, too selfish,
and for a supposed "intelligent" species, too stupid.
On 2025-10-16 20:55:06 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said:
On 10/16/25 11:04, Lynn McGuire wrote:<snip>
<snip>
We are all going to die.
Lynn
Yes we are all going to die but does that mean we must leave a mess
that the Earth may never recover from behind us when we go?
The Earth will always recover eventually, thanks to Mother Nature.
Humans aren't worth bothering to save - they're too greedy, too selfish,
and for a supposed "intelligent" species, too stupid.
On 10/16/2025 1:12 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Cryptoengineerÿ <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
But both are improving as time goes by. My car installed an OTA
update just last night.
Do you think these are insoluble problems?
I think there are insoluble problems with self-driving.
1. Human drivers are lousy.
2. Self-driving cars have to share the road with human drivers
3. Human drivers will always blame self-driving cars in an accident; that
ÿÿÿ is the standard for driving quality is much higher for the self-
driving
ÿÿÿ car than for a human being.
Tesla claims (and I take the claim with a LOT of salt) that the
cybercabs in Austin are having incidents at 1/10 to 1/8 the rate of
human driven cars. Again, I'd like to see some independent
confirmation.
Once automated driving systems are demonstrably safer than human
drivers, the insurance companies will drive adoption by charging
higher premiums if you insist on driving manually.
On 2025-10-16 15:01:53 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/16/2025 1:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 01:52:22 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/15/2025 3:47 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
On 15/10/2025 17:16, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too.?ÿ Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ƒ?? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with >>>>>>>> hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ƒ?? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps- >>>>>>>> while- driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
Yeep indeed!
My car is currently downloading an OTA update, but it wont
install it until I give permission, and wouldn't do so while
driving.
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West
Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after
leaving
the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter >>>>>> how weird the alternatives get.
A car that does the driving for you?
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Really? Starlink isn't hooking up people to the Internet all over the
world?
And many of those satelittes are failing.
On 2025-10-16 16:46:53 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said:
As for the electric vehicles they solve a big problem in California
which is the price of the gasoline used in IC vehicles.ÿ If widely
enough adopted they may permit a modicum of the civilization we are
used to to continue for some time before the rise in Global
Temperatures make continuing to waste oxygen on IC engines clearly
dangerous.
I'm assuming you mean the price of petrol goes up as fewer people buy
it, which is probably true since the petrol station and companies still
need to make the same profit from fewer customers.
The problem is that more electric cars also means the elctric companies
have to produce more electricity, which means they have to spend more
money to meet that increasing demand, and therefore will charge EVERYONE more for the elctricity.
It's pretty much a lose-lose situation.
On 2025-10-16 16:25:28 +0000, Paul S Person said:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 10:26:16 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
wrote:
<snippo, self-driving vehicles>
There have been news stories about idiotic self-driving cars />robo-
taxis that have caused issues. There was one were lots of them
seemed to congregate in a particular street, often honking theirhorns,>etc. which annoyed the people living there.
This is a phenomenon mention in the film /I, Robot/: the tendency to
congregate.
I see it most weeks at the laundromat: the wheeled clothes baskets
tend to end up in the same area. Sometimes there are little ones among
the big ones, looking a lot like a family. But of course they are not.
Personally, I've always felt that a 3" mortar was the obvious solution
to such problems, whether from vehicle or house. But that's just me.
Then again, I couldn't find out what vehicles run on in the future>>
Mega-City of "Judge Dredd" - they could be powered from the road -
live in>> their vehicle. And with not enough parking space either -with a shortage of apartments (at least perhaps until a series
catasrophes reduces the population cumulatively?), they just
these are>> literal mobile homes.
<snippo pun>
There are trials in various countries of electric cars that
continuously charged driving along the road, but such a schemewould be>hideously expensive and distruptive while roads are dug up
to bury the>cables and charging pads, so is unlikely to every happen
except in>small specific areas.
Another option being trialled is wireless charging pads in parking
spots.
Our city is installing charging stations along some streets. But I
don't think there is any "wireless" about it.
As you note rather hysterically below, this is stressing the
electrical grid. The server farms and "AI" chatbots aren't helping any
either.
One interesting factoid is that studies have apparently shown that
grazing animals (sheep, cows) actually do better grazing around
power-producing windmills. Which means the landowners can lease the
land twice: once for the windmills, and once for the grazing. Well,
maybe.
Nope. Because the greenies are trying to force farmers to pay fart taxes
for their livestock, so most farmers will simply stop bother to have
sheep, cows, etc. at all. Of course, the greenies don't care because
they're vegetarian / vegan anyway, but they haven't thought through that
it would also likely mean the near-extinction of all those domesticated animals.
On 2025-10-16 15:01:53 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/16/2025 1:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 01:52:22 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/15/2025 3:47 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
On 15/10/2025 17:16, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too.?ÿ Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ƒ?? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with >>>>>>>> hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ƒ?? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps- >>>>>>>> while- driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
Yeep indeed!
My car is currently downloading an OTA update, but it wont
install it until I give permission, and wouldn't do so while
driving.
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West
Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after
leaving
the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter >>>>>> how weird the alternatives get.
A car that does the driving for you?
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Really? Starlink isn't hooking up people to the Internet all over the
world?
And many of those satelittes are failing.
SpaceX isn't providing the cheapest space launches, and is so popular
it is now the miles-ahead launch provider in the world, with more than
half of total launches worldwide?
And many of those launches fail, often spectacularly.
Tesla cars don't continue to rack up awards?
Nope, they don't. In fact, they are complained about by almost everyone
for all sorts of idiotic decisions Tesla have made - including stupid
things like charing extra for a real steering wheel or turn indicator,
doors that can't be opened after a crash, etc.
I'll grant you X/Twitter, which he turned into a cesspool.
He would do ... Muskrat lives in a cesspool.ÿ :-p
Your hatred of Musk's (absolutely atrocious) politics have clearly
clouded your judgement. I hate his politics too.
Nothing to do with his politics, since I've never bothered to read
anything about them (other than knowing he was briefly Trump the Chump's bum-chum). The man himself is a raving, drug-addled lunatic.
When I bought my car in 2019, Greta Thunberg was driving one, and
Musk was the darling of climate change activists. It remains the
best car I've ever owned, and actually improves with time.
Though Musk took a huge face/heel turn, the car didn't.
Sales were originally high simply because it was the new fad on the
block, but sales are now dropping through the floor as everyone finally realise the cars are crap and the man in charge is a greedy lunatic.
On 10/16/2025 1:07 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 10/16/2025 1:12 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:I don't know if we are going to reach the point where a non-sentient software bundle can be a better driver than a human.ÿ Humans having
Cryptoengineerÿ <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
But both are improving as time goes by. My car installed an OTA
update just last night.
Do you think these are insoluble problems?
I think there are insoluble problems with self-driving.
1. Human drivers are lousy.
2. Self-driving cars have to share the road with human drivers
3. Human drivers will always blame self-driving cars in an accident;
that
ÿÿÿ is the standard for driving quality is much higher for the self-
driving
ÿÿÿ car than for a human being.
Tesla claims (and I take the claim with a LOT of salt) that the
cybercabs in Austin are having incidents at 1/10 to 1/8 the rate of
human driven cars. Again, I'd like to see some independent
confirmation.
Once automated driving systems are demonstrably safer than human
drivers, the insurance companies will drive adoption by charging
higher premiums if you insist on driving manually.
actual situational awareness and the near infinity of things that
_could_ cause a vehicle trouble makes me skeptical, at least for MANY
years to come.
The driving software will become more sentient and frankly I have seen
human drivers do stupid things nearly every time I am around to watch
them.
On 2025-10-16 15:01:53 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/16/2025 1:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 01:52:22 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Really? Starlink isn't hooking up people to the Internet all over the
world?
And many of those satelittes are failing.
SpaceX isn't providing the cheapest space launches, and is so popular
it is now the miles-ahead launch provider in the world, with more than
half of total launches worldwide?
And many of those launches fail, often spectacularly.
Tesla cars don't continue to rack up awards?
Nope, they don't. In fact, they are complained about by almost everyone
for all sorts of idiotic decisions Tesla have made - including stupid
things like charing extra for a real steering wheel or turn indicator,
doors that can't be opened after a crash, etc.
On 10/16/2025 1:07 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 10/16/2025 1:12 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:I don't know if we are going to reach the point where a non-sentient software bundle can be a better driver than a human.ÿ Humans having
Cryptoengineerÿ <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
But both are improving as time goes by. My car installed an OTA
update just last night.
Do you think these are insoluble problems?
I think there are insoluble problems with self-driving.
1. Human drivers are lousy.
2. Self-driving cars have to share the road with human drivers
3. Human drivers will always blame self-driving cars in an accident;
that
ÿÿÿ is the standard for driving quality is much higher for the self-
driving
ÿÿÿ car than for a human being.
Tesla claims (and I take the claim with a LOT of salt) that the
cybercabs in Austin are having incidents at 1/10 to 1/8 the rate of
human driven cars. Again, I'd like to see some independent
confirmation.
Once automated driving systems are demonstrably safer than human
drivers, the insurance companies will drive adoption by charging
higher premiums if you insist on driving manually.
actual situational awareness and the near infinity of things that
_could_ cause a vehicle trouble makes me skeptical, at least for MANY
years to come.
On 2025-10-16 20:55:06 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said:
On 10/16/25 11:04, Lynn McGuire wrote:<snip>
<snip>
We are all going to die.
Lynn
Yes we are all going to die but does that mean we must leave a mess
that the Earth may never recover from behind us when we go?
The Earth will always recover eventually, thanks to Mother Nature.
Humans aren't worth bothering to save - they're too greedy, too selfish,
and for a supposed "intelligent" species, too stupid.
On 10/16/2025 6:52 PM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 15:01:53 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/16/2025 1:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 01:52:22 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/15/2025 3:47 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
On 15/10/2025 17:16, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too.?ÿ Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ƒ?? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with >>>>>>>>> hybrid
drives in the USA to fail ƒ?? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps- >>>>>>>>> while- driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
Yeep indeed!
My car is currently downloading an OTA update, but it wont
install it until I give permission, and wouldn't do so while
driving.
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West >>>>>>> Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after
leaving
the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No
matter
how weird the alternatives get.
A car that does the driving for you?
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Really? Starlink isn't hooking up people to the Internet all over the
world?
And many of those satelittes are failing.
Oh well, it looks like rasfw has a new troll - his first posts
were last month.
Sadly, he's not an interesting or intelligent one, unlike some
of the Great Trolls of old, he merely naysays anything to get
a rise out of people.
Don't feed him.
pt
On 10/16/2025 6:52 PM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 15:01:53 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/16/2025 1:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 01:52:22 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Really? Starlink isn't hooking up people to the Internet all over the
world?
And many of those satelittes are failing.
Oh well, it looks like rasfw has a new troll - his first posts
were last month.
Sadly, he's not an interesting or intelligent one, unlike some
of the Great Trolls of old, he merely naysays anything to get
a rise out of people.
Don't feed him.
On 2025-10-16 16:25:28 +0000, Paul S Person said:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 10:26:16 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
wrote:
<snippo, self-driving vehicles>
There have been news stories about idiotic self-driving cars />robo-
taxis that have caused issues. There was one were lots of them
seemed to congregate in a particular street, often honking theirhorns,>etc. which annoyed the people living there.
Nope. Because the greenies are trying to force farmers to pay fart taxes
for their livestock, so most farmers will simply stop bother to have
sheep, cows, etc. at all. Of course, the greenies don't care because
they're vegetarian / vegan anyway, but they haven't thought through that
it would also likely mean the near-extinction of all those domesticated animals.
On 2025-10-16 18:07:25 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:
On 10/16/2025 12:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
...
...I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Wow, you have zero credibility with your delusions about Musk.ÿ Makes
me wonder about anything else that you say.
Lynn
Even Muskrat's own employees say his most of his silly ideas are
unworkable or can't be done as quickly / easily as he believes. Of
course, the lunatic then simply fires them for saying that.
On 10/16/2025 1:07 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 10/16/2025 1:12 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:I don't know if we are going to reach the point where a non-sentient
Cryptoengineerÿ <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
But both are improving as time goes by. My car installed an OTA
update just last night.
Do you think these are insoluble problems?
I think there are insoluble problems with self-driving.
1. Human drivers are lousy.
2. Self-driving cars have to share the road with human drivers
3. Human drivers will always blame self-driving cars in an accident;
that
ÿÿÿ is the standard for driving quality is much higher for the self-
driving
ÿÿÿ car than for a human being.
Tesla claims (and I take the claim with a LOT of salt) that the
cybercabs in Austin are having incidents at 1/10 to 1/8 the rate of
human driven cars. Again, I'd like to see some independent
confirmation.
Once automated driving systems are demonstrably safer than human
drivers, the insurance companies will drive adoption by charging
higher premiums if you insist on driving manually.
software bundle can be a better driver than a human.ÿ Humans having
actual situational awareness and the near infinity of things that
_could_ cause a vehicle trouble makes me sceptical, at least for MANY
years to come.
I'll grant you X/Twitter, which he turned into a cesspool.
Your hatred of Musk's (absolutely atrocious) politics have clearly
clouded your judgement. I hate his politics too.
On 10/16/2025 6:52 PM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 15:01:53 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/16/2025 1:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 01:52:22 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/15/2025 3:47 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
On 15/10/2025 17:16, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 21:20:05 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2025 6:20 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-10-14, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Pearls Before Swine: Cell Phone Updates
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2025/10/14
Cars and trucks are updating now too.?ÿ Very annoying.
"OTA software update bricks Jeeps ƒ?? while driving
A software update for the telemetry unit has caused Jeeps with hybrid >>>>>>>>> drives in the USA to fail ƒ?? some on the highway."
https://www.heise.de/en/news/OTA-software-update-bricks-Jeeps- while-
driving-10751844.html
Yeep !
Yeep indeed!
My car is currently downloading an OTA update, but it wont
install it until I give permission, and wouldn't do so while
driving.
I haven't owned a car since 1982, and that was what was then West >>>>>>> Germany.
I haven't driven a vehicle since 1983, when I moved home after leaving >>>>>>> the Army.
This sort of thing does /not/ inspire me to resume driving. No matter >>>>>>> how weird the alternatives get.
A car that does the driving for you?
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Really? Starlink isn't hooking up people to the Internet all over the
world?
And many of those satelittes are failing.
Oh well, it looks like rasfw has a new troll - his first posts
were last month.
Sadly, he's not an interesting or intelligent one, unlike some
of the Great Trolls of old, he merely naysays anything to get
a rise out of people.
Don't feed him.
pt
On 17/10/25 13:45, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 10/16/2025 6:52 PM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 15:01:53 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/16/2025 1:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 01:52:22 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible. >>>>>> I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies >>>>>> build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Really? Starlink isn't hooking up people to the Internet all over the
world?
And many of those satelittes are failing.
Oh well, it looks like rasfw has a new troll - his first posts
were last month.
Sadly, he's not an interesting or intelligent one, unlike some
of the Great Trolls of old, he merely naysays anything to get
a rise out of people.
Don't feed him.
He has been here for a long time but rarely posts. I think he is just unhappily bitter rather than trolling. Your comments on your Tesla have always been interesting. I have a Tesla Powerwall which I believe is not faulty but I am human and therefore stupid.
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
On 2025-10-16 15:01:53 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/16/2025 1:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 01:52:22 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Really? Starlink isn't hooking up people to the Internet all over the
world?
And many of those satelittes are failing.
There are about 4500 operational starlink satellites.
About 1000 have been deorbited, or are in decaying
orbits. Most of these are first generation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Launches
Deorbited satellites burn up in the atmosphere, in theory.
A larger concern is related to collisions and the consequential
orbital debris. The satellites have made more than 10
thousand propulsive maneuvers to avoid debris, mostly from
the Russian anti-satellite weapons test.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Increased_risk_of_satellite_collision
There are also impacts on observational earth-based astronomy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Impact_on_astronomy
SpaceX isn't providing the cheapest space launches, and is so popular
it is now the miles-ahead launch provider in the world, with more than
half of total launches worldwide?
And many of those launches fail, often spectacularly.
Not a single launch of operational Starlink satellites has
failed. You seem to be conflating the Starship test launch
failures with Starlink. The starlink satellites to date
have been launched from the Falcon 9 rocket, which has
an outstanding launch success record.
Tesla cars don't continue to rack up awards?
Nope, they don't. In fact, they are complained about by almost everyone
for all sorts of idiotic decisions Tesla have made - including stupid
things like charing extra for a real steering wheel or turn indicator,
doors that can't be opened after a crash, etc.
Do you complain when GMC does the same for a gas pickup truck? They
do, you know, charge for upgrades and extras.
The door handles are a design problem, to be sure.
On 10/16/25 15:57, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 16:25:28 +0000, Paul S Person said:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 10:26:16 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
wrote:
<snippo, self-driving vehicles>
There have been news stories about idiotic self-driving cars />robo-
taxis that have caused issues. There was one were lots of them
seemed to congregate in a particular street, often honking theirhorns,>etc. which annoyed the people living there.
This is a phenomenon mention in the film /I, Robot/: the tendency to
congregate.
I see it most weeks at the laundromat: the wheeled clothes baskets
tend to end up in the same area. Sometimes there are little ones among
the big ones, looking a lot like a family. But of course they are not.
Personally, I've always felt that a 3" mortar was the obvious solution
to such problems, whether from vehicle or house. But that's just me.
Then again, I couldn't find out what vehicles run on in the future>> >>>>> Mega-City of "Judge Dredd" - they could be powered from the road -
with a shortage of apartments (at least perhaps until a series >>>>> of>> catasrophes reduces the population cumulatively?), they just live >>>>> in>> their vehicle. And with not enough parking space either - these >>>>> are>> literal mobile homes.
<snippo pun>
There are trials in various countries of electric cars thatOur city is installing charging stations along some streets. But I
continuously charged driving along the road, but such a schemewould be>hideously expensive and distruptive while roads are dug up to >>>> bury the>cables and charging pads, so is unlikely to every happen
except in>small specific areas.
Another option being trialled is wireless charging pads in parking spots. >>>
don't think there is any "wireless" about it.
As you note rather hysterically below, this is stressing the
electrical grid. The server farms and "AI" chatbots aren't helping any
either.
One interesting factoid is that studies have apparently shown that
grazing animals (sheep, cows) actually do better grazing around
power-producing windmills. Which means the landowners can lease the
land twice: once for the windmills, and once for the grazing. Well,
maybe.
Nope. Because the greenies are trying to force farmers to pay fart
taxes for their livestock, so most farmers will simply stop bother to
have sheep, cows, etc. at all. Of course, the greenies don't care
because they're vegetarian / vegan anyway, but they haven't thought
through that it would also likely mean the near-extinction of all those
domesticated animals.
As long as there are people willing to pay the cost of producing meat including taxes at the market counter there will be farmers/ranchers growing meat animals for slaughter and sale.
I am fairly green but am a obiligate carnivore.
If I cannot afford to buy it in a store I might go hunting...
bliss
On 17/10/25 11:57, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 16:25:28 +0000, Paul S Person said:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 10:26:16 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
wrote:
<snippo, self-driving vehicles>
There have been news stories about idiotic self-driving cars />robo-
taxis that have caused issues. There was one were lots of them
seemed to congregate in a particular street, often honking theirhorns,>etc. which annoyed the people living there.
1. There was a noise problem for apartment dwellers near a parking lot.
This issue was solved.
2. As a prank, someone ordered 50 Waymos to a dead end street.
Not an issue
.
snip
Nope. Because the greenies are trying to force farmers to pay fart taxes
for their livestock, so most farmers will simply stop bother to have
sheep, cows, etc. at all. Of course, the greenies don't care because
they're vegetarian / vegan anyway, but they haven't thought through that
it would also likely mean the near-extinction of all those domesticated
animals.
Help. I am starting to miss "D".
When you say greenies, you mean the previous NZ coalition government.
When you say farmers, you mean dairy farmers.
All greenies are vegetarian makes as much sense as all male opera goers
are practising homosexuals.
Do sheep emit sufficient methane to matter?
Of course, the silver lining once the clouds of methane have disappeared
with the near extinction of domesticated animals, is that NZ highways
will become roads again instead of motocross tracks, rivers will be able
to be swum in, the Atlas Group will stop interfering in NZ politics, the
guys in charge of the USA from Poland and Belarus ancestry will argue
for a two state solution, the CIA will be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize
.... oops, that last one just happened.
On 10/16/25 16:08, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 16:46:53 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said:
As for the electric vehicles they solve a big problem in California
which is the price of the gasoline used in IC vehicles.? If widely
enough adopted they may permit a modicum of the civilization we are
used to to continue for some time before the rise in Global
Temperatures make continuing to waste oxygen on IC engines clearly
dangerous.
I'm assuming you mean the price of petrol goes up as fewer people buy
it, which is probably true since the petrol station and companies still
need to make the same profit from fewer customers.
No in California we use specially formulated gasoline to help reduce toxic emmissions. So of course the refineries change more for gasoline
made according to California standards. By the way that is for the season where lots of driving happens. At other time the gasoline used is not specially formulated and the Fossil Fuel profiteers keep the prices up
to what the market will bear.
The problem is that more electric cars also means the elctric companies
have to produce more electricity, which means they have to spend more
money to meet that increasing demand, and therefore will charge
EVERYONE more for the elctricity.
It's pretty much a lose-lose situation.
So far gasoline is much more expensive than electricity.
The electrical generation companies are increasing their capacities so that they have more to sell to the people living in the hotter areas of California in the Summer.
bliss
On 10/16/25 16:12, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 20:55:06 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said:
On 10/16/25 11:04, Lynn McGuire wrote:<snip>
<snip>
We are all going to die.
Lynn
Yes we are all going to die but does that mean we must leave a mess
that the Earth may never recover from behind us when we go?
The Earth will always recover eventually, thanks to Mother Nature.
An unproven assumption. MN may be dead if it gets too hot for her constituent parts.
Humans aren't worth bothering to save - they're too greedy, too
selfish, and for a supposed "intelligent" species, too stupid.
Perhaps you are correct but more likely than not merely impressed by nihilism.
bliss
On 10/16/2025 6:12 PM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 20:55:06 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said:
On 10/16/25 11:04, Lynn McGuire wrote:<snip>
<snip>
We are all going to die.
Lynn
Yes we are all going to die but does that mean we must leave a mess
that the Earth may never recover from behind us when we go?
The Earth will always recover eventually, thanks to Mother Nature.
Humans aren't worth bothering to save - they're too greedy, too
selfish, and for a supposed "intelligent" species, too stupid.
Wow, that is incredibly negative. But, considering the source...
Lynn
has done before.
On 2025-10-17 03:38:16 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:
On 10/16/2025 6:12 PM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 20:55:06 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said:
On 10/16/25 11:04, Lynn McGuire wrote:<snip>
<snip>
We are all going to die.
Lynn
Yes we are all going to die but does that mean we must leave a mess
that the Earth may never recover from behind us when we go?
The Earth will always recover eventually, thanks to Mother Nature.
Humans aren't worth bothering to save - they're too greedy, too
selfish, and for a supposed "intelligent" species, too stupid.
Wow, that is incredibly negative.ÿ But, considering the source...
Lynn
Just look around ... wars, terrorists, criminals, big business, ...
Yes, there are some good people around, but there are also a lot of
scumbags.
orbits. Most of these are first generation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Launches
Deorbited satellites burn up in the atmosphere, in theory.
A larger concern is related to collisions and the consequential
orbital debris. The satellites have made more than 10
thousand propulsive maneuvers to avoid debris, mostly from
the Russian anti-satellite weapons test.
They don't have to be perfect - they merely have to statistically
safer than human drivers. I agree that unless we get AGI that can
fit in a car, there will be situations where a human can handle
a situation that a car can't.
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
They don't have to be perfect - they merely have to statistically
safer than human drivers. I agree that unless we get AGI that can
fit in a car, there will be situations where a human can handle
a situation that a car can't.
That's the problem. People will demand they be perfect. They can't just
be better, they have to be perfect for the general public to accept them.
When somebody runs over a pedestrian it doesn't even make the newspaper in
a big city. It might make page three of the weekly paper here in rural Virginia, along with the article about the high schooler who got a scholarship
to Yale and the new hotdog shop opening.
But when an automated car runs over a pedestrian, it makes the national news and if it doesn't lead it comes close to it.
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
On 2025-10-16 15:01:53 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
On 10/16/2025 1:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 01:52:22 +0000, Cryptoengineer said:
I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Really? Starlink isn't hooking up people to the Internet all over the
world?
And many of those satelittes are failing.
There are about 4500 operational starlink satellites.
About 1000 have been deorbited, or are in decaying
orbits. Most of these are first generation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Launches
Deorbited satellites burn up in the atmosphere, in theory.
A larger concern is related to collisions and the consequential
orbital debris. The satellites have made more than 10
thousand propulsive maneuvers to avoid debris, mostly from
the Russian anti-satellite weapons test.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Increased_risk_of_satellite_collision
There are also impacts on observational earth-based astronomy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Impact_on_astronomy
SpaceX isn't providing the cheapest space launches, and is so popular
it is now the miles-ahead launch provider in the world, with more than
half of total launches worldwide?
And many of those launches fail, often spectacularly.
Not a single launch of operational Starlink satellites has
failed. You seem to be conflating the Starship test launch
failures with Starlink. The starlink satellites to date
have been launched from the Falcon 9 rocket, which has
an outstanding launch success record.
Tesla cars don't continue to rack up awards?
Nope, they don't. In fact, they are complained about by almost everyone
for all sorts of idiotic decisions Tesla have made - including stupid
things like charing extra for a real steering wheel or turn indicator,
doors that can't be opened after a crash, etc.
Do you complain when GMC does the same for a gas pickup truck? They
do, you know, charge for upgrades and extras.
The door handles are a design problem, to be sure.
Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
The driving software will become more sentient and frankly I have seen
human drivers do stupid things nearly every time I am around to watch
them.
This is the problem, yes. I as a human am on the lookout for humans doing stupid things. Machines have a harder time of that. And when the machine and the human get into an accident, the machine has a harder time arguing
the human is at fault.
On 17/10/25 12:14, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 18:07:25 +0000, Lynn McGuire said:
On 10/16/2025 12:22 AM, Your Name wrote:
...
...I don't know why people are so skeptical that it will be possible.
I realize Musk isn't popular, but assuming everything his companies
build are bad as a result, is just silly.
Mainly because everything his companies build *is* bad and
unsurprisingly never match the lunatic Muskrat's claims.
Wow, you have zero credibility with your delusions about Musk.ÿ Makes
me wonder about anything else that you say.
Lynn
Even Muskrat's own employees say his most of his silly ideas are
unworkable or can't be done as quickly / easily as he believes. Of
course, the lunatic then simply fires them for saying that.
When you say his own employees, do you mean all of them or just your
fellow janitorial staff?
But when an automated car runs over a pedestrian, it makes the national news >> and if it doesn't lead it comes close to it.
Once they run over enough people it will begin to be seen as normal,
then as acceptable as any other automobile accident.
Seem improbable? It's working for Trump.
On 17/10/25 13:41, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 10/16/2025 1:07 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 10/16/2025 1:12 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:I don't know if we are going to reach the point where a non-sentient
Cryptoengineerÿ <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
But both are improving as time goes by. My car installed an OTA
update just last night.
Do you think these are insoluble problems?
I think there are insoluble problems with self-driving.
1. Human drivers are lousy.
2. Self-driving cars have to share the road with human drivers
3. Human drivers will always blame self-driving cars in an accident;
that
ÿÿÿ is the standard for driving quality is much higher for the self-
driving
ÿÿÿ car than for a human being.
Tesla claims (and I take the claim with a LOT of salt) that the
cybercabs in Austin are having incidents at 1/10 to 1/8 the rate of
human driven cars. Again, I'd like to see some independent
confirmation.
Once automated driving systems are demonstrably safer than human
drivers, the insurance companies will drive adoption by charging
higher premiums if you insist on driving manually.
software bundle can be a better driver than a human.ÿ Humans having
actual situational awareness and the near infinity of things that
_could_ cause a vehicle trouble makes me sceptical, at least for MANY
years to come.
My understanding is that the recent major advances in AI quality have
been because of the access to and use of massive amounts of data. Won't
the same apply to driving skills of software bundles not made of meat?
(A sub thread cross reference to the near extinction of NZ farm animals
due to the influence of vegan would be rulers.)
On 2025-10-17 00:40:28 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said:
On 10/16/25 16:12, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 20:55:06 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said:
On 10/16/25 11:04, Lynn McGuire wrote:<snip>
<snip>
We are all going to die.
Lynn
Yes we are all going to die but does that mean we must leave a mess
that the Earth may never recover from behind us when we go?
The Earth will always recover eventually, thanks to Mother Nature.
ÿÿÿÿAn unproven assumption. MN may be dead if it gets too hot for her
constituent parts.
Not really. There would be mass extinctions, especially of the larger animals, but Mother Nature will survive and start again, as she already
has done before.
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
They don't have to be perfect - they merely have to statistically
safer than human drivers. I agree that unless we get AGI that can
fit in a car, there will be situations where a human can handle
a situation that a car can't.
That's the problem. People will demand they be perfect. They can't just
be better, they have to be perfect for the general public to accept them.
When somebody runs over a pedestrian it doesn't even make the newspaper in
a big city. It might make page three of the weekly paper here in rural Virginia, along with the article about the high schooler who got a scholarship
to Yale and the new hotdog shop opening.
But when an automated car runs over a pedestrian, it makes the national news and if it doesn't lead it comes close to it.
--scott
Of course there will, that's whay I said "near-extinction". The number
of farm animals will drop drastically. But counter to that is lab-grown
meat (not vege-made substitutes, but real meat) which will mean people
can still buy meat products without any animals or fart taxes involved.
On 17/10/25 11:57, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-16 16:25:28 +0000, Paul S Person said:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 10:26:16 +1300, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
wrote:
<snippo, self-driving vehicles>
There have been news stories about idiotic self-driving cars />robo-
taxis that have caused issues. There was one were lots of them
seemed to congregate in a particular street, often honking theirhorns,>etc. which annoyed the people living there.
1. There was a noise problem for apartment dwellers near a parking lot.
This issue was solved.
2. As a prank, someone ordered 50 Waymos to a dead end street.
Not an issue
The driving software will become more sentient and frankly I have seen
human drivers do stupid things nearly every time I am around to watch
them.
Also walkers, bicyclers, and motor vehicles operators of 1, 2, 3, 4wheeled
motor vehicles are uniformly ignoring the environment in which they
operate which
is filled with heavier machines with erratic operators.
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 18:08:25 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
<snippo: self-driving cars vs human-driven cars>
The driving software will become more sentient and frankly I have seen
human drivers do stupid things nearly every time I am around to watch
them.
You haven't seen stupid driving unless you've been in Seattle near a
hill after a snow storm.
On 10/17/25 05:47, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Cryptoengineerÿ <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
They don't have to be perfect - they merely have to statistically
safer than human drivers. I agree that unless we get AGI that can
fit in a car, there will be situations where a human can handle
a situation that a car can't.
That's the problem.ÿ People will demand they be perfect.ÿ They can't just
be better, they have to be perfect for the general public to accept them.
When somebody runs over a pedestrian it doesn't even make the
newspaper in
a big city.ÿ It might make page three of the weekly paper here in rural
Virginia, along with the article about the high schooler who got a
scholarship
to Yale and the new hotdog shop opening.
ÿÿÿÿThese days you are lucky to have a Newspaper in a major conurbation.
ÿÿÿÿThe accidents are frequently covered on TV in San Francisco and sometimes the
SF Chronicle will give the accident and susequent problems space
especially if the
term "DUI" comes up.ÿ The incidents covered involving the driverless vehicles show
that people are interferring with vehicles more often than vehicles are interfering
with people. Auto-navigating Cars have not been designed to deal wit anti-car
protesters.
On 10/17/2025 8:47 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
They don't have to be perfect - they merely have to statistically
safer than human drivers. I agree that unless we get AGI that can
fit in a car, there will be situations where a human can handle
a situation that a car can't.
That's the problem. People will demand they be perfect. They can't just
be better, they have to be perfect for the general public to accept them.
When somebody runs over a pedestrian it doesn't even make the newspaper in >> a big city. It might make page three of the weekly paper here in rural
Virginia, along with the article about the high schooler who got a scholarship
to Yale and the new hotdog shop opening.
But when an automated car runs over a pedestrian, it makes the national news >> and if it doesn't lead it comes close to it.
Once they run over enough people it will begin to be seen as normal,
then as acceptable as any other automobile accident.
Seem improbable? It's working for Trump.
Oh well, it looks like rasfw has a new troll - his first postsI think "Your Name" is in rec.arts.comics.strips -
were last month.
I couldn't find out what vehicles
run on in the future Mega-City of "Judge Dredd" -
they could be powered from the road - but with
a shortage of apartments (at least perhaps until
a series of catasrophes reduces the population
cumulatively?), they just live in their vehicle.
And with not enough parking space either - these
are literal mobile homes.
Unless I imagined this.ÿ Somebody did.
They may have been called mo-pads?
On 17/10/2025 01:45, Cryptoengineer wrote:
Oh well, it looks like rasfw has a new troll - his first postsI think "Your Name" is in rec.arts.comics.strips -
were last month.
in which case, Lynn fetched them in to rasfw.
Robert Carnegie wrote:
Cryptoengineer wrote:
Oh well, it looks like rasfw has a new troll - his first postsI think "Your Name" is in rec.arts.comics.strips -
were last month.
in which case, Lynn fetched them in to rasfw.
I believe they've been posting to rasfw for a long long long long time.
On 10/17/25 05:47, Scott Dorsey wrote:
newspaper inWhen somebody runs over a pedestrian it doesn't even make the
rurala big city. It might make page three of the weekly paper here in
Virginia, along with the article about the high schooler who got a scholarship
to Yale and the new hotdog shop opening.
These days you are lucky to have a Newspaper in a major conurbation.
The accidents are frequently covered on TV in San Francisco and
sometimes the
SF Chronicle will give the accident and susequent problems space
especially if the
term "DUI" comes up. The incidents covered involving the driverless >vehicles show
that people are interferring with vehicles more often than vehicles are >interfering
with people. Auto-navigating Cars have not been designed to deal wit >anti-car
protesters.
On Fri, 17 Oct 2025 08:54:48 -0700, Bobbie Sellers ><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 10/17/25 05:47, Scott Dorsey wrote:
<snippo, self-driving cars are new and so hog the news>
newspaper inWhen somebody runs over a pedestrian it doesn't even make the =
rurala big city. It might make page three of the weekly paper here in =
Virginia, along with the article about the high schooler who got a = >scholarship
to Yale and the new hotdog shop opening.
These days you are lucky to have a Newspaper in a major conurbation.
The accidents are frequently covered on TV in San Francisco and=20 >>sometimes the
SF Chronicle will give the accident and susequent problems space=20 >>especially if the
term "DUI" comes up. The incidents covered involving the driverless=20 >>vehicles show
that people are interferring with vehicles more often than vehicles are=20 >>interfering
with people. Auto-navigating Cars have not been designed to deal wit=20 >>anti-car
protesters.
An excellent illustration of the failure of programmers to consider
all the possibilities.
MN may be dead if it gets too hot for her
constituent parts.
On Fri, 17 Oct 2025 08:54:48 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 10/17/25 05:47, Scott Dorsey wrote:
<snippo, self-driving cars are new and so hog the news>
When somebody runs over a pedestrian it doesn't even make the newspaper in >>> a big city. It might make page three of the weekly paper here in rural
Virginia, along with the article about the high schooler who got a
scholarship to Yale and the new hotdog shop opening.
These days you are lucky to have a Newspaper in a major conurbation.
The accidents are frequently covered on TV in San Francisco and
sometimes the SF Chronicle will give the accident and susequent
problems space especially if the term "DUI" comes up. The incidents
covered involving the driverless vehicles show that people are
interferring with vehicles more often than vehicles are interfering
with people. Auto-navigating Cars have not been designed to deal with
anti-car protesters.
An excellent illustration of the failure of programmers to consider
all the possibilities.
Kind of like when Microsoft decided that "640KB RAM was all anybody
could ever need".
It's not just software either. Most don't use all the gimmicks that over-complicate new cars, and even want to turn off those annoying
gimmicks. Same with appliances around the home - nobody needs a
"smart" / "AI" kettle!
640KB probably would be enough ... except that Microsloth keeps bloating their awful software.ÿ :-p
The Commodore 64 only had 64K of RAM, but is probably more than enough
for the majority of users' needs (emails, web browsing, word processing, etc.)
Not that Microsloth are alone in bloating software - the original MacOS could run off a 400K / 800K floppy disk and still have room for your documents. Even on my ancient Mac, this MacOS now takes up around 47GB (including space used for things like caches). Similarly, software like Photoshop has become massive in size.
In all cases, the majority of people don't even know about, let alone
use, all the gimmicks in the software.
It's not just software either. Most don't use all the gimmicks that over-complicate new cars, and even want to turn off those annoying
gimmicks. Same with appliances around the home - nobody needs a
"smart" / "AI" kettle!
On 10/16/2025 11:52 PM, Titus G wrote:
On 17/10/25 13:41, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 10/16/2025 1:07 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 10/16/2025 1:12 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:I don't know if we are going to reach the point where a non-sentient
Cryptoengineerÿ <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
But both are improving as time goes by. My car installed an OTA
update just last night.
Do you think these are insoluble problems?
I think there are insoluble problems with self-driving.
1. Human drivers are lousy.
2. Self-driving cars have to share the road with human drivers
3. Human drivers will always blame self-driving cars in an accident; >>>>> that
ÿÿÿÿ is the standard for driving quality is much higher for the self- >>>>> driving
ÿÿÿÿ car than for a human being.
Tesla claims (and I take the claim with a LOT of salt) that the
cybercabs in Austin are having incidents at 1/10 to 1/8 the rate of
human driven cars. Again, I'd like to see some independent
confirmation.
Once automated driving systems are demonstrably safer than human
drivers, the insurance companies will drive adoption by charging
higher premiums if you insist on driving manually.
software bundle can be a better driver than a human.ÿ Humans having
actual situational awareness and the near infinity of things that
_could_ cause a vehicle trouble makes me sceptical, at least for MANY
years to come.
My understanding is that the recent major advances in AI quality have
been because of the access to and use of massive amounts of data. Won't
the same apply to driving skills of software bundles not made of meat?
(A sub thread cross reference to the near extinction of NZ farm animals
due to the influence of vegan would be rulers.)
The Teslas use a neural net. Training that neural net requires vast
amounts of data and a huge amount of compute, but once the nodes and
weights are set and downloaded to the car, operating the net is
less resource intensive.
The computers in the car are still pretty powerful.
Here's a deep dive: https://www.autopilotreview.com/tesla-hardware-4-rolling-out-to-new- vehicles/
On 2025-10-18 16:22:58 +0000, Paul S Person said:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2025 08:54:48 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
<bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 10/17/25 05:47, Scott Dorsey wrote:
<snippo, self-driving cars are new and so hog the news>
When somebody runs over a pedestrian it doesn't even make the
newspaper in
a big city.ÿ It might make page three of the weekly paper here in rural >>>> Virginia, along with the article about the high schooler who got a
scholarship to Yale and the new hotdog shop opening.
These days you are lucky to have a Newspaper in a major conurbation.
The accidents are frequently covered on TV in San Francisco and
sometimes the SF Chronicle will give the accident and susequent
problems space especially if the term "DUI" comes up.ÿ The incidents
covered involving the driverless vehicles show that people are
interferring with vehicles more often than vehicles are interfering
with people. Auto-navigating Cars have not been designed to deal with
anti-car protesters.
An excellent illustration of the failure of programmers to consider
all the possibilities.
Kind of like when Microsoft decided that "640KB RAM was all anybody
could ever need".
640KB probably would be enough ... except that Microsloth keeps bloating their awful software.ÿ :-p
The Commodore 64 only had 64K of RAM, but is probably more than enough
for the majority of users' needs (emails, web browsing, word processing, etc.)
Not that Microsloth are alone in bloating software - the original MacOS could run off a 400K / 800K floppy disk and still have room for your documents. Even on my ancient Mac, this MacOS now takes up around 47GB (including space used for things like caches). Similarly, software like Photoshop has become massive in size.
In all cases, the majority of people don't even know about, let alone
use, all the gimmicks in the software.
It's not just software either. Most don't use all the gimmicks that over-complicate new cars, and even want to turn off those annoying
gimmicks. Same with appliances around the home - nobody needs a
"smart" / "AI" kettle!
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2025 08:54:48 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
<bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 10/17/25 05:47, Scott Dorsey wrote:
<snippo, self-driving cars are new and so hog the news>
newspaper inWhen somebody runs over a pedestrian it doesn't even make the =
rurala big city. It might make page three of the weekly paper here in =
scholarshipVirginia, along with the article about the high schooler who got a =
to Yale and the new hotdog shop opening.
These days you are lucky to have a Newspaper in a major conurbation. >>> The accidents are frequently covered on TV in San Francisco and=20
sometimes the
SF Chronicle will give the accident and susequent problems space=20
especially if the
term "DUI" comes up. The incidents covered involving the driverless=20
vehicles show
that people are interferring with vehicles more often than vehicles are=20 >>> interfering
with people. Auto-navigating Cars have not been designed to deal wit=20
anti-car
protesters.
An excellent illustration of the failure of programmers to consider
all the possibilities.
Care to elaborate on that? The universe of possibilities is infinite.
On 18/10/25 04:14, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 10/16/2025 11:52 PM, Titus G wrote:
On 17/10/25 13:41, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 10/16/2025 1:07 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 10/16/2025 1:12 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:I don't know if we are going to reach the point where a non-sentient
Cryptoengineerÿ <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
But both are improving as time goes by. My car installed an OTA
update just last night.
Do you think these are insoluble problems?
I think there are insoluble problems with self-driving.
1. Human drivers are lousy.
2. Self-driving cars have to share the road with human drivers
3. Human drivers will always blame self-driving cars in an accident; >>>>>> that
ÿÿÿÿ is the standard for driving quality is much higher for the self- >>>>>> driving
ÿÿÿÿ car than for a human being.
Tesla claims (and I take the claim with a LOT of salt) that the
cybercabs in Austin are having incidents at 1/10 to 1/8 the rate of
human driven cars. Again, I'd like to see some independent
confirmation.
Once automated driving systems are demonstrably safer than human
drivers, the insurance companies will drive adoption by charging
higher premiums if you insist on driving manually.
software bundle can be a better driver than a human.ÿ Humans having
actual situational awareness and the near infinity of things that
_could_ cause a vehicle trouble makes me sceptical, at least for MANY
years to come.
My understanding is that the recent major advances in AI quality have
been because of the access to and use of massive amounts of data. Won't
the same apply to driving skills of software bundles not made of meat?
(A sub thread cross reference to the near extinction of NZ farm animals
due to the influence of vegan would be rulers.)
The Teslas use a neural net. Training that neural net requires vast
amounts of data and a huge amount of compute, but once the nodes and
weights are set and downloaded to the car, operating the net is
less resource intensive.
The computers in the car are still pretty powerful.
Here's a deep dive:
https://www.autopilotreview.com/tesla-hardware-4-rolling-out-to-new-
vehicles/
A bit too deep for me so I skimmed it and watched part of the impressive Autopilot Review in the
Tesla FSD v14 Out ? First Impressions
sub section. Thank you.
On 10/18/25 14:46, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-18 16:22:58 +0000, Paul S Person said:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2025 08:54:48 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
<bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 10/17/25 05:47, Scott Dorsey wrote:
<snippo, self-driving cars are new and so hog the news>
When somebody runs over a pedestrian it doesn't even make the newspaper in
a big city.ÿ It might make page three of the weekly paper here in rural >>>>> Virginia, along with the article about the high schooler who got a
scholarship to Yale and the new hotdog shop opening.
These days you are lucky to have a Newspaper in a major conurbation.
The accidents are frequently covered on TV in San Francisco and
sometimes the SF Chronicle will give the accident and susequent
problems space especially if the term "DUI" comes up.ÿ The incidents
covered involving the driverless vehicles show that people are
interferring with vehicles more often than vehicles are interfering
with people. Auto-navigating Cars have not been designed to deal with >>>> anti-car protesters.
An excellent illustration of the failure of programmers to consider
all the possibilities.
Kind of like when Microsoft decided that "640KB RAM was all anybody
could ever need".
640KB probably would be enough ... except that Microsloth keeps
bloating their awful software.ÿ :-p
The Commodore 64 only had 64K of RAM, but is probably more than enough
for the majority of users' needs (emails, web browsing, word
processing, etc.)
We did not do email except thru BBS on the C=64. There was no Web to browse.
We did do word processing with inserted formatting. People used it to
write games, other programs and so forth because it had for that time excellent graphic capability.
The Amiga came along and it was not originally designed for Internet use.
It did not even come with facilities for hard drive use. i got a GVP+
SCSI host card with in the "+" room for 8 GB of ram on sims. But
AmigaOS had a modular design and updates after AOS 1.3 added some
capability for hard drive use and for internet security. But AmigaOS
3.9 did not have any memory management capabillity and the result was
you could not depend on a program like a text processor and a Web
browser running together without crashing. It was very good at Web
browsing and Usenet and email. but again no memory management. Memory management was omitted in the adoption of TriOS to AmigaOS because it
was designed to run on a single 68000 CPU with graphics and sound
offloaded to co-processors. This design was made to be less expensive
to the consumer and to the builders of the Amiga hardware.
Not that Microsloth are alone in bloating software - the original MacOS
could run off a 400K / 800K floppy disk and still have room for your
documents. Even on my ancient Mac, this MacOS now takes up around 47GB
(including space used for things like caches). Similarly, software like
Photoshop has become massive in size.
I don't call that bloatware but i use Linux. I cannot run Photoshop let alone afford it. I got my C-64 new, my Amiga computers were all
at least second-hand. Memory chips/simms and Hard drives were
fabulously expensive and that was before inflation had set in hard.
In all cases, the majority of people don't even know about, let alone
use, all the gimmicks in the software.
Of course not. Most people do not realize the possibilities of image modifications.
It's not just software either. Most don't use all the gimmicks that
over-complicate new cars, and even want to turn off those annoying
gimmicks. Same with appliances around the home - nobody needs a "smart"
/ "AI" kettle!
Yes and I want to turn off AI intrusion into my Firefox as I find it annoying. When I enter a URL or clickon it I want to go there not be bothered by an AI telling me it can or cannot preview it.
Some people could use AI in the kitchen though because I have one friend
who cannot boil water because he forgets to deal with it. Residual
brain damage from a childhood accident.
bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2025.10 Linux 6.12.53-pclos1- KDE
Plasma 6.4.5
On 2025-10-19 02:20:29 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said:
On 10/18/25 14:46, Your Name wrote:
On 2025-10-18 16:22:58 +0000, Paul S Person said:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2025 08:54:48 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
<bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 10/17/25 05:47, Scott Dorsey wrote:
<snippo, self-driving cars are new and so hog the news>
When somebody runs over a pedestrian it doesn't even make the
newspaper in
a big city.?ÿ It might make page three of the weekly paper here in >>>>>> rural
Virginia, along with the article about the high schooler who got a >>>>>> scholarship to Yale and the new hotdog shop opening.
These days you are lucky to have a Newspaper in a major conurbation. >>>>> The accidents are frequently covered on TV in San Francisco and
sometimes the SF Chronicle will give the accident and susequent
problems space especially if the term "DUI" comes up.?ÿ The
incidents covered involving the driverless vehicles show that
people are interferring with vehicles more often than vehicles are
interfering with people. Auto-navigating Cars have not been
designed to deal with anti-car protesters.
An excellent illustration of the failure of programmers to consider
all the possibilities.
Kind of like when Microsoft decided that "640KB RAM was all anybody
could ever need".
640KB probably would be enough ... except that Microsloth keeps
bloating their awful software.?ÿ :-p
The Commodore 64 only had 64K of RAM, but is probably more than
enough for the majority of users' needs (emails, web browsing, word
processing, etc.)
ÿÿÿÿWe did not do email except thru BBS on the C=64. There was no Web
to browse.
No, but there's no real reason the C64 couldn't do email and web
browsing then (if it had existed) or even now ... other than the fact
that websites have also become very over-bloated, and again mostly with gimmicky nonsense.
We did do word processing with inserted formatting.ÿ People used it to
write games, other programs and so forth because it had for that time
excellent graphic capability.
ÿÿÿÿThe Amiga came along and it was not originally designed for
Internet use.
It did not even come with facilities for hard drive use.ÿ i got a GVP+
SCSI host card with in the "+" room for 8 GB of ram on sims.ÿ But
AmigaOS had a modular design and updates after AOS 1.3 added some
capability for hard drive use and for internet security. But AmigaOS
3.9 did not have any memory management capabillity and the result was
you could not depend on a program like a text processor and a Web
browser running together without crashing.ÿ It was very good at Web
browsing and Usenet and email. but again no memory management.ÿ Memory
management was omitted in the adoption of TriOS to AmigaOS because it
was designed to run on a single 68000 CPU with graphics and sound
offloaded to co-processors. This design was made to be less expensive
to the consumer and to the builders of the Amiga hardware.
Nor do they attempt to write books or compile .pdf files for whatever reason.
Not that Microsloth are alone in bloating software - the original
MacOS could run off a 400K / 800K floppy disk and still have room for
your documents. Even on my ancient Mac, this MacOS now takes up
around 47GB (including space used for things like caches). Similarly,
software like Photoshop has become massive in size.
ÿÿÿÿI don't call that bloatware but i use Linux.ÿ I cannot run
Photoshop let alone afford it.ÿÿ I got my C-64 new, my Amiga computers
were all at least second-hand. Memory chips/simms and Hard drives were
fabulously expensive and that was before inflation had set in hard.
In all cases, the majority of people don't even know about, let alone
use, all the gimmicks in the software.
ÿÿÿÿOf course not. Most people do not realize the possibilities of image
modifications.
| Sysop: | Tetrazocine |
|---|---|
| Location: | Melbourne, VIC, Australia |
| Users: | 14 |
| Nodes: | 8 (0 / 8) |
| Uptime: | 15:52:30 |
| Calls: | 178 |
| Files: | 21,502 |
| Messages: | 78,201 |
