"A Rage for Revenge (War Against the Chtorr, Book 3)" by David Gerroldhttps://www.amazon.com/Rage-Revenge-Against-Chtorr-Book/dp/0553278444/
Book number three of a four book science fiction alien invasion series.
I reread the well printed and well bound MMPB published by Bantam
Spectra Books in 1989 that I bought new in 1989. I own a copy of book >number four and plan to reread it soon.
The book is dedicated to "for Frank Robinson, with love". There is also
a thank you list for several people including Robert and Ginny Heinlein,
Jerry Pournelle, and Richard Fontana, I suspect alpha readers andbooks.
discussion buddies.
This is very hard sci-fi. Do not pick up this book without having many >hours available to you to finish it. Once started, the book sucks you
in gradually so that you say, "just one more chapter". When you finish
the book at 5:50 am the next morning, you will be exhausted as if you
had just run a 10K. This also applies to the preceding and follow-on
I have read this book at least three times. Maybe four times. I lost
count many years ago.
The first book starts off with a series of plagues that devastate the
human population across the Earth. Then the weird plants start growing >everywhere. Then the huge one meter to five meter long alien
carnivorous worms show up and starting eating people, cows, horses, etc.
The worms are very difficult to destroy without a combat rated
flamethrower.
In the second book, Jim McCarthy is now a lieutenant in the Army Special
Forces. And things are getting worse. McCarthy and Duke are drafted
into an expedition into northern California to investigate secondary and
tertiary worm homes but their assault helicopter crashes when the
Chtorran airborn plants cause the jet engines to fail. Then things get
very tough when the bunny dogs riding the worms show up.
I would advise skipping this book. The subjects are horrible and not
for the faint at heart or the squeamish. All of the States in the USA >except Hawaii have worm infestations with worm huts all over the place. >Various cults of worm worshipers have sprung up of people actually
living with the worms and feeding their ... to the worms. There is also
aberrant sex in the book.
Gerrold has claimed many times over the years that there will be a fifth
book and a sixth book and a seventh book in the series. I will believe
it when I see it. He stated once to us on his email list that book 5 is
so insane that he just could not finish several chapters in the middle--
of the book. However, there is a taunting preview of book 5, "A Method
for Madness", at:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060321170726/http://www.gerrold.com/chtorr -5/page.htm
I am hoping that if Gerrold does not finish the books then his son will >publish the books when he passes on. Who knows ? Gerrold is very
sensitive about people asking when he is going to publish the remaining >books in the series.
There is another review by James Nicoll at:
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/the_world_stood_still
My rating: 5 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.6 out of 5 stars (45 reviews)
Lynn
On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 19:01:46 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
"A Rage for Revenge (War Against the Chtorr, Book 3)" by David Gerrold
https://www.amazon.com/Rage-Revenge-Against-Chtorr-Book/dp/0553278444/ >>
Book number three of a four book science fiction alien invasion series.
I reread the well printed and well bound MMPB published by Bantam
Spectra Books in 1989 that I bought new in 1989. I own a copy of book
number four and plan to reread it soon.
The book is dedicated to "for Frank Robinson, with love". There is also
a thank you list for several people including Robert and Ginny Heinlein,
Jerry Pournelle, and Richard Fontana, I suspect alpha readers and
discussion buddies.
This is very hard sci-fi. Do not pick up this book without having many
hours available to you to finish it. Once started, the book sucks you
in gradually so that you say, "just one more chapter". When you finish
the book at 5:50 am the next morning, you will be exhausted as if you
had just run a 10K. This also applies to the preceding and follow-on books. >>
I have read this book at least three times. Maybe four times. I lost
count many years ago.
The first book starts off with a series of plagues that devastate the
human population across the Earth. Then the weird plants start growing
everywhere. Then the huge one meter to five meter long alien
carnivorous worms show up and starting eating people, cows, horses, etc.
The worms are very difficult to destroy without a combat rated
flamethrower.
In the second book, Jim McCarthy is now a lieutenant in the Army Special
Forces. And things are getting worse. McCarthy and Duke are drafted
into an expedition into northern California to investigate secondary and
tertiary worm homes but their assault helicopter crashes when the
Chtorran airborn plants cause the jet engines to fail. Then things get
very tough when the bunny dogs riding the worms show up.
I would advise skipping this book. The subjects are horrible and not
for the faint at heart or the squeamish. All of the States in the USA
except Hawaii have worm infestations with worm huts all over the place.
Various cults of worm worshipers have sprung up of people actually
living with the worms and feeding their ... to the worms. There is also
aberrant sex in the book.
Sounds like Gerrold all right. Book 4 didn't, by any chance, come out
after he decided to emulate the later Heinlein, did it?
Looks like the unavailability of this series on Kindle may have saved
me some time and effort. I got enough of Gerrold's sex descriptions in
other books that were on Kindle. I skipped the last two on my list
because they sounded like the same-old same-old.
But his earlier work (even the TV-series-scripts adapted to novels)
were not bad, and most were quite good. I would buy more of several
series should he ever bother to continue the stories. In
pre-late-Heinlein mode, that is.
Gerrold has claimed many times over the years that there will be a fifth
book and a sixth book and a seventh book in the series. I will believe
it when I see it. He stated once to us on his email list that book 5 is
so insane that he just could not finish several chapters in the middle
of the book. However, there is a taunting preview of book 5, "A Method
for Madness", at:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060321170726/http://www.gerrold.com/chtorr-5/page.htm
I am hoping that if Gerrold does not finish the books then his son will
publish the books when he passes on. Who knows ? Gerrold is very
sensitive about people asking when he is going to publish the remaining
books in the series.
There is another review by James Nicoll at:
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/the_world_stood_still
My rating: 5 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.6 out of 5 stars (45 reviews)
Lynn
I would advise skipping this book. The subjects are horrible and not
for the faint at heart or the squeamish. All of the States in the USA >>except Hawaii have worm infestations with worm huts all over the place. >>Various cults of worm worshipers have sprung up of people actually
living with the worms and feeding their ... to the worms. There is also >>aberrant sex in the book.
Sounds like Gerrold all right. Book 4 didn't, by any chance, come out
after he decided to emulate the later Heinlein, did it?
On 2025-11-30, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
I would advise skipping this book. The subjects are horrible and not
for the faint at heart or the squeamish. All of the States in the USA
except Hawaii have worm infestations with worm huts all over the place.
Various cults of worm worshipers have sprung up of people actually
living with the worms and feeding their ... to the worms. There is also >>> aberrant sex in the book.
Sounds like Gerrold all right. Book 4 didn't, by any chance, come out
after he decided to emulate the later Heinlein, did it?
I've mostly forgotten the details, but I think the books started
to veer off a simple "heroic humans fight evil bugs" template and
the protagonist went through a major self-finding phase.
The sex can't have been all that interesting or I would remember
it. ;-) Some body swapping with the telepathy thing, ending up in
a body of the opposite sex, IIRC?
That said, there was a very Heinleinesque feel to the last book I thought, though I can recall very little of it now.
While I would certainly buy a new Chtorr book, I would much rather have
a new Steerswoman, an eventuality which seems equally unlikely.
On 11/30/2025 3:14 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:not
On 2025-11-30, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
I would advise skipping this book. The subjects are horrible and
USAfor the faint at heart or the squeamish. All of the States in the
place.except Hawaii have worm infestations with worm huts all over the
alsoVarious cults of worm worshipers have sprung up of people actually
living with the worms and feeding their ... to the worms. There is
aberrant sex in the book.
Sounds like Gerrold all right. Book 4 didn't, by any chance, come out
after he decided to emulate the later Heinlein, did it?
I've mostly forgotten the details, but I think the books started
to veer off a simple "heroic humans fight evil bugs" template and
the protagonist went through a major self-finding phase.
The sex can't have been all that interesting or I would remember
it. ;-) Some body swapping with the telepathy thing, ending up in
a body of the opposite sex, IIRC?
The aberrant sex in the third book is adults having sex with children
and feeding the children to the worms as a sacrifice to the their gods,
the worms. They teach the children that their sole purpose in life is to
feed the worms.
In article <slrn10ipctj.22ds.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
On 2025-11-30, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
I would advise skipping this book. The subjects are horrible and not
USAfor the faint at heart or the squeamish. All of the States in the
place.except Hawaii have worm infestations with worm huts all over the
alsoVarious cults of worm worshipers have sprung up of people actually >>>>living with the worms and feeding their ... to the worms. There is
aberrant sex in the book.
Sounds like Gerrold all right. Book 4 didn't, by any chance, come out
after he decided to emulate the later Heinlein, did it?
I've mostly forgotten the details, but I think the books started
to veer off a simple "heroic humans fight evil bugs" template and
the protagonist went through a major self-finding phase.
The sex can't have been all that interesting or I would remember
it. ;-) Some body swapping with the telepathy thing, ending up in
a body of the opposite sex, IIRC?
It would be hard to outdo _The Man Who Folded Himself_.
That said, there was a very Heinleinesque feel to the last book Ithought,
though I can recall very little of it now.--
While I would certainly buy a new Chtorr book, I would much rather have
a new Steerswoman, an eventuality which seems equally unlikely.
On 2025-11-30, Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
That said, there was a very Heinleinesque feel to the last book I thought, >> though I can recall very little of it now.
While I would certainly buy a new Chtorr book, I would much rather have
a new Steerswoman, an eventuality which seems equally unlikely.
At least both Gerrold and Kirstein are still alive.
I would also prefer a new Steerswoman; I don't see any hope for humanity, or indeed any Earth-native species in Chtorr.
-dsr-
On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 16:20:45 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/30/2025 3:14 PM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
On 2025-11-30, Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
I would advise skipping this book. The subjects are horrible and not >>>>> for the faint at heart or the squeamish. All of the States in the USA >>>>> except Hawaii have worm infestations with worm huts all over the place. >>>>> Various cults of worm worshipers have sprung up of people actually
living with the worms and feeding their ... to the worms. There is also >>>>> aberrant sex in the book.
Sounds like Gerrold all right. Book 4 didn't, by any chance, come out
after he decided to emulate the later Heinlein, did it?
I've mostly forgotten the details, but I think the books started
to veer off a simple "heroic humans fight evil bugs" template and
the protagonist went through a major self-finding phase.
The sex can't have been all that interesting or I would remember
it. ;-) Some body swapping with the telepathy thing, ending up in
a body of the opposite sex, IIRC?
The aberrant sex in the third book is adults having sex with children
and feeding the children to the worms as a sacrifice to the their gods,
the worms. They teach the children that their sole purpose in life is to
feed the worms.
Well, /that's/ a culture that's going to die out all on its own.
On 12/1/2025 7:52 AM, -dsr- wrote:
On 2025-11-30, Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
That said, there was a very Heinleinesque feel to the last book I
thought,
though I can recall very little of it now.
While I would certainly buy a new Chtorr book, I would much rather have
a new Steerswoman, an eventuality which seems equally unlikely.
At least both Gerrold and Kirstein are still alive.
I would also prefer a new Steerswoman; I don't see any hope for
humanity, or
indeed any Earth-native species in Chtorr.
-dsr-
One hope for humanity is offworld.
On 12/1/2025 6:20 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 12/1/2025 7:52 AM, -dsr- wrote:Where the Chtorr came from....
On 2025-11-30, Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
That said, there was a very Heinleinesque feel to the last book I
thought,
though I can recall very little of it now.
While I would certainly buy a new Chtorr book, I would much rather have >>>> a new Steerswoman, an eventuality which seems equally unlikely.
At least both Gerrold and Kirstein are still alive.
I would also prefer a new Steerswoman; I don't see any hope for
humanity, or
indeed any Earth-native species in Chtorr.
-dsr-
One hope for humanity is offworld.
Ted Nolan wrote:
Christian Weisgerber wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
I would advise skipping this book. The subjects are horrible and not >>>>>for the faint at heart or the squeamish. All of the States in the USA >>>>>except Hawaii have worm infestations with worm huts all over the place. >>>>>Various cults of worm worshipers have sprung up of people actually >>>>>living with the worms and feeding their ... to the worms. There is also >>>>>aberrant sex in the book.
Sounds like Gerrold all right. Book 4 didn't, by any chance, come out
after he decided to emulate the later Heinlein, did it?
I've mostly forgotten the details, but I think the books started
to veer off a simple "heroic humans fight evil bugs" template and
the protagonist went through a major self-finding phase.
The sex can't have been all that interesting or I would remember
it. ;-) Some body swapping with the telepathy thing, ending up in
a body of the opposite sex, IIRC?
It would be hard to outdo _The Man Who Folded Himself_.
I found that one ... idiotic. I didn't so much get the feeling that
the main character gradually understood his position as that Gerrold
only figured it out at the end and then decided to pretend that he had
known it all along. Note that this is just my impression; Gerrold
could indeed have had it figured out from the beginning.
From the sex standpoint, both /Jacob/ and /Moonstar Odyssey/
(available as /Moonstar: Jobe, Book One/; there is no Book Two; this
is the first book of a one-book series) rival anything Heinlein did.
Since it wasn't intrinsically interesting, I soon got bored, driving
on only on the chance that something worth reading would eventually
happen. And, in a way, it did. Less so in /Jacob/.
That said, there was a very Heinleinesque feel to the last book I thought, >>though I can recall very little of it now.
While I would certainly buy a new Chtorr book, I would much rather have
a new Steerswoman, an eventuality which seems equally unlikely.
Paul S Person wrote:
Idiocy is in the eye of the beholder.
Are ALL YOU ZOMBIES and THE MAN WHO FOLDED HIMSELF the sole SF self-sex >stories tangled in time travel?
Precedence does not imply provenance.
Self-sex science fiction was first formulated by RAH. He predictably
kept his narrative basic and bare bones by using only four time loop >characters: Jane, the baby, the unmarried mother, and the bartender.
Gerrold embellishes by expanding his ensemble of time loop
characters. Calculating the character count could prove difficult in
the case of THE MAN WHO FOLDED HIMSELF.
On Tue, 2 Dec 2025 17:21:08 -0000 (UTC), "Don" <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo: Sex and Time Travel and /The Man Who Folded Himself/>
Idiocy is in the eye of the beholder.
Whatever.
<snippo>
Are ALL YOU ZOMBIES and THE MAN WHO FOLDED HIMSELF the sole SF self-sex >stories tangled in time travel?
Precedence does not imply provenance.
Self-sex science fiction was first formulated by RAH. He predictably
kept his narrative basic and bare bones by using only four time loop >characters: Jane, the baby, the unmarried mother, and the bartender.
Gerrold embellishes by expanding his ensemble of time loop
characters. Calculating the character count could prove difficult in
the case of THE MAN WHO FOLDED HIMSELF.
I believe the precise answer is -- infinite. Possibly uncountable.
As to "--All You Zombies--", this is a short story, which explains its shortness compared to /The Man Who Folded Himself/, which is a novel.
It was made into the film /Predestination/, which feels like a good
Heinlein story done exactly (I've never read the story so cannot say
how close they are). But, of course, adapting a short story to a film
is likely to follow the original better (unless, of course, the
filmmakers decide to go off in their own direction instead of doing
something so boring as actually telling the same story) than a novel
because there is enough screen time to include most if not all of the
short story.
As to the number of characters, I would say it has essentially /one/. Although other characters exist (most prominently the Agency guy).
That, after all, is the point of the story. Or at least of the film.
Paul S Person wrote:
Don wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo: Sex and Time Travel and /The Man Who Folded Himself/>
Idiocy is in the eye of the beholder.
Whatever.
<snippo>
Are ALL YOU ZOMBIES and THE MAN WHO FOLDED HIMSELF the sole SF self-sex
stories tangled in time travel?
Precedence does not imply provenance.
Self-sex science fiction was first formulated by RAH. He predictably
kept his narrative basic and bare bones by using only four time loop
characters: Jane, the baby, the unmarried mother, and the bartender.
Gerrold embellishes by expanding his ensemble of time loop
characters. Calculating the character count could prove difficult in
the case of THE MAN WHO FOLDED HIMSELF.
I believe the precise answer is -- infinite. Possibly uncountable.
As to "--All You Zombies--", this is a short story, which explains its
shortness compared to /The Man Who Folded Himself/, which is a novel.
It was made into the film /Predestination/, which feels like a good
Heinlein story done exactly (I've never read the story so cannot say
how close they are). But, of course, adapting a short story to a film
is likely to follow the original better (unless, of course, the
filmmakers decide to go off in their own direction instead of doing
something so boring as actually telling the same story) than a novel
short story.
As to the number of characters, I would say it has essentially /one/.
Although other characters exist (most prominently the Agency guy).
That, after all, is the point of the story. Or at least of the film.
Agency guy? IIRC, the story, other than scene extras, had only 1
character (who, because of time travel, shows up twice in many scenes, perhaps even thrice once or twice). So is this Agency guy someone the
script writer added or is it the same character again?
In article <lto0jk54dgjlvumbg6vd4m6dvnhug26kna@4ax.com>,self-sex
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 2 Dec 2025 17:21:08 -0000 (UTC), "Don" <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo: Sex and Time Travel and /The Man Who Folded Himself/>
Idiocy is in the eye of the beholder.
Whatever.
<snippo>
Are ALL YOU ZOMBIES and THE MAN WHO FOLDED HIMSELF the sole SF
stories tangled in time travel?
Precedence does not imply provenance.
Self-sex science fiction was first formulated by RAH. He predictably
kept his narrative basic and bare bones by using only four time loop
characters: Jane, the baby, the unmarried mother, and the bartender.
Gerrold embellishes by expanding his ensemble of time loop
characters. Calculating the character count could prove difficult in
the case of THE MAN WHO FOLDED HIMSELF.
I believe the precise answer is -- infinite. Possibly uncountable.
As to "--All You Zombies--", this is a short story, which explains its
shortness compared to /The Man Who Folded Himself/, which is a novel.
It was made into the film /Predestination/, which feels like a good
Heinlein story done exactly (I've never read the story so cannot say
how close they are). But, of course, adapting a short story to a film
is likely to follow the original better (unless, of course, the
filmmakers decide to go off in their own direction instead of doing
something so boring as actually telling the same story) than a novel
because there is enough screen time to include most if not all of the
short story.
As to the number of characters, I would say it has essentially /one/.
Although other characters exist (most prominently the Agency guy).
That, after all, is the point of the story. Or at least of the film.
Agency guy? IIRC, the story, other than scene extras, had only 1
character (who, because of time travel, shows up twice in many scenes, >perhaps even thrice once or twice). So is this Agency guy someone the
script writer added or is it the same character again?
Robert Woodward wrote:self-sex
Paul S Person wrote:
Don wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo: Sex and Time Travel and /The Man Who Folded Himself/>
Idiocy is in the eye of the beholder.
Whatever.
<snippo>
Are ALL YOU ZOMBIES and THE MAN WHO FOLDED HIMSELF the sole SF
itsstories tangled in time travel?
Precedence does not imply provenance.
Self-sex science fiction was first formulated by RAH. He predictably
kept his narrative basic and bare bones by using only four time loop
characters: Jane, the baby, the unmarried mother, and the bartender.
Gerrold embellishes by expanding his ensemble of time loop
characters. Calculating the character count could prove difficult in
the case of THE MAN WHO FOLDED HIMSELF.
I believe the precise answer is -- infinite. Possibly uncountable.
As to "--All You Zombies--", this is a short story, which explains
shortness compared to /The Man Who Folded Himself/, which is a novel.
It was made into the film /Predestination/, which feels like a good
Heinlein story done exactly (I've never read the story so cannot say
how close they are). But, of course, adapting a short story to a film
is likely to follow the original better (unless, of course, the
filmmakers decide to go off in their own direction instead of doing
something so boring as actually telling the same story) than a novel
short story.
As to the number of characters, I would say it has essentially /one/.
Although other characters exist (most prominently the Agency guy).
That, after all, is the point of the story. Or at least of the film.
Agency guy? IIRC, the story, other than scene extras, had only 1
character (who, because of time travel, shows up twice in many scenes,
perhaps even thrice once or twice). So is this Agency guy someone the
script writer added or is it the same character again?
Good question. Allow me to clear up character count confusion.
My "time loop character" is separate and distinct from the narrative's
one character. Each independent idiosyncratic identity instantiation
(eg Jane, the baby, the unmarried mother, and the bartender) of the one >narrative character counts as one "time loop character."
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