On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 09:01:36 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer
<mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/you-seer-of-visions

With all the chatter about the U.S. taking over Canada it
should not be forgotten that Cecil Rhodes wanted America to be
reunited into the British empire and Churchill in effect
suggested the same thing in the "Iron Curtain" speech of
1946.

That must have gone over well with Truman who was with Churchill in
Fulton that day!

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sat, 07 Feb 2026 09:13:25 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 09:01:36 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer ><mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/you-seer-of-visions

With all the chatter about the U.S. taking over Canada it
should not be forgotten that Cecil Rhodes wanted America to be
reunited into the British empire and Churchill in effect
suggested the same thing in the "Iron Curtain" speech of
1946.

That must have gone over well with Truman who was with Churchill in
Fulton that day!

IIRC, Churchill offered (twice!) to cede Northern Ireland to Eire if
Eire would join the Allies. That didn't work either.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Paul S Person wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2026 09:13:25 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 09:01:36 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer
<mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/you-seer-of-visions

With all the chatter about the U.S. taking over Canada it
should not be forgotten that Cecil Rhodes wanted America to be
reunited into the British empire and Churchill in effect
suggested the same thing in the "Iron Curtain" speech of
1946.

That must have gone over well with Truman who was with Churchill in
Fulton that day!

IIRC, Churchill offered (twice!) to cede Northern Ireland to Eire if
Eire would join the Allies. That didn't work either.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if so, he kept it out of his memoirs.

And I think that, even during the war, that would have led to a motion
of non-confidence which would likely have passed.

William Hyde

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sun, 8 Feb 2026 17:18:19 -0500, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
wrote:

Paul S Person wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2026 09:13:25 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 09:01:36 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer
<mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/you-seer-of-visions

With all the chatter about the U.S. taking over Canada it
should not be forgotten that Cecil Rhodes wanted America to be
reunited into the British empire and Churchill in effect
suggested the same thing in the "Iron Curtain" speech of
1946.

That must have gone over well with Truman who was with Churchill in
Fulton that day!

IIRC, Churchill offered (twice!) to cede Northern Ireland to Eire if
Eire would join the Allies. That didn't work either.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if so, he kept it out of his

memoirs.

And I think that, even during the war, that would have led to a motion
of non-confidence which would likely have passed.

This page addresses it <https://www.churchillarchive.com/churchill-and-ireland-introduction>
but it may be hard to find the material, as it has a lot of pre-WW II
stuff, but I did find these notes (which have footnotes in the
original):

"On the advice of some of his Cabinet, Churchill agreed that it should
be proposed to end partition to bring Ireland into the war. He sent
the minister Malcolm MacDonald, who was highly respected by de Valera,
to Dublin in early June 1940 with a somewhat sketchy scheme for
reunification. De Valera responded with a far-fetched call for the
speedy end of partition and neutrality for the entire island, which
MacDonald dismissed."

and

"Churchill would make another ? somewhat excitable ? apparent offer
of
Irish unity when the United States entered the war. He cabled de
Valera, "Now is your chance. Now or never. ?A Nation once again?"."

It is suggested that the real problem was that Valera wanted a truly /independent/ Ireland, while Churchill had a tightly-bound dominion in
mind.

There was also the minor problem of having to do with the toxic
terrorist politics in the North.

I should point out that, had the Germans had the ability to keep it
supplied, Eire would have made an /excellent/ fixed aircraft carrier
and staging area for an invasion of Britain. Also, IIRC, the Germans
had supported the Irish during WWI. So closing the door on that
possibility may or may not have been a factor. Probably not, as the
supply would have been by sea, and Britain still ruled the waves. At
least, they did in the vicinity of Ireland and Britain.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Paul S Person wrote:

On Sun, 8 Feb 2026 17:18:19 -0500, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
wrote:

Paul S Person wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2026 09:13:25 -0800, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 09:01:36 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer
<mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/you-seer-of-visions

With all the chatter about the U.S. taking over Canada it
should not be forgotten that Cecil Rhodes wanted America to be
reunited into the British empire and Churchill in effect
suggested the same thing in the "Iron Curtain" speech of
1946.

That must have gone over well with Truman who was with Churchill in
Fulton that day!

IIRC, Churchill offered (twice!) to cede Northern Ireland to Eire if
Eire would join the Allies. That didn't work either.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if so, he kept it out of his memoirs. >>
And I think that, even during the war, that would have led to a motion
of non-confidence which would likely have passed.

This page addresses it <https://www.churchillarchive.com/churchill-and-ireland-introduction>
but it may be hard to find the material, as it has a lot of pre-WW II
stuff, but I did find these notes (which have footnotes in the
original):

"On the advice of some of his Cabinet, Churchill agreed that it should
be proposed to end partition to bring Ireland into the war. He sent
the minister Malcolm MacDonald, who was highly respected by de Valera,
to Dublin in early June 1940 with a somewhat sketchy scheme for reunification. De Valera responded with a far-fetched call for the
speedy end of partition and neutrality for the entire island, which
MacDonald dismissed."

and

"Churchill would make another ? somewhat excitable ? apparent offer of
Irish unity when the United States entered the war. He cabled de
Valera, "Now is your chance. Now or never. ?A Nation once again?"."

It is suggested that the real problem was that Valera wanted a truly /independent/ Ireland, while Churchill had a tightly-bound dominion in
mind.

This is indeed consistent with his memoirs. Not to cede Northern
Ireland, but to unite the UK with Eire in some way. Not something the
Irish were ever likely to agree to, as Churchill knew, but it was worth
a try.

The real targets were former British naval bases on the Irish coast.
Use of them by the RN and RAF would have saved thousands of lives,
millions of tons of cargo, and possibly shortened the war.

I'm sure the British considered just occupying them, but held off for a variety of reasons, not least US public opinion. IIRC this option is
not mentioned in his memoirs, but then it would not have been politic to mention it.

There was also the minor problem of having to do with the toxic
terrorist politics in the North.

I should point out that, had the Germans had the ability to keep it
supplied, Eire would have made an /excellent/ fixed aircraft carrier
and staging area for an invasion of Britain.

Irish citizens in the tens of thousands served in the British forces
against the Nazis, though they had no obligation to do so. Any attempt
a the above would have resulted in instant civil war and, if the wrong
side seemed to be winning, occupation by the British.

William Hyde



--- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)