On 4/2/2026 7:26 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
On 4/2/2026 11:40 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Watch those goalposts just zip around....
Come to Texas during a solid freeze and I will show you.
No, you can't.ÿÿ I have solar panels and they work just fine
at 116F.
Until the sun goes down.
And if you are already running all of the backup gas turbines,
peakers, and battery plants, your customers are going to be pissed off
when they get blacked out.
Sorry, you lost me.
On 4/2/2026 11:28 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/1/2026 5:06 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 4/1/2026 12:57 PM, s|b wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2026 15:48:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go back to >>>>>>> sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Solar panels and wind turbines are doing a pretty good job.
They work until it gets too cold, less than 25 F, or over 105 F here >>>>> in Texas,
You keep saying this.
And somehow it's still not true.
William Hyde
Come to Texas during a solid freeze and I will show you.
No, you can't. I have solar panels and they work just fine
at 116F.
Read up on the Duck's Back Curve.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_curve
On 4/2/2026 11:28 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
No, you can't. I have solar panels and they work just fine
at 116F.
Until the sun goes down.
And if you are already running all of the backup gas turbines, peakers,
and battery plants, your customers are going to be pissed off when they
get blacked out.
On 2026-04-02, Scott Lurndal wrote:back to
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/1/2026 4:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 4/1/26 10:57, s|b wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2026 15:48:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go
but surely and it willsailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Solar panels and wind turbines are doing a pretty good job.
ÿÿÿÿGeothermal power is coming online slowly
until thepush fossil fuels off the scene eventually.ÿ And it will last
800 mile core of the earth stops spinning.
Geothermal is super high maintenance. I don't know of a single >>>geothermal plant that the heat exchangers last ten years in.
And an oil refinery isn't "super high maintenance"?
"Geothermal ground loop heat exchangers typically have a
lifespan of over 50 years, with many lasting up to 100
years due to durable high-density polyethylene (HDPE) pipes."
Hey, at least unlike solar power or wind power, oil is always available
24/7 and won't be subject to any disruption at all!
( https://enwp.org/WP:SARC )
( https://enwp.org/WP:SARC )
On Thu, 02 Apr 2026 23:36:35 +0100, Nuno Silva
<nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 2026-04-02, Scott Lurndal wrote:back to
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/1/2026 4:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
=20
=20
On 4/1/26 10:57, s|b wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2026 15:48:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
The world is built on energy.=C2=A0 I guess that you want to go =
but surely and it will=20sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Solar panels and wind turbines are doing a pretty good job.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Geothermal power is coming online slowly =
push fossil fuels off the scene eventually.=C2=A0 And it will last = >until the
800 mile core of the earth stops spinning.
Geothermal is super high maintenance. I don't know of a single=20 >>>>geothermal plant that the heat exchangers last ten years in.
And an oil refinery isn't "super high maintenance"?
"Geothermal ground loop heat exchangers typically have a
lifespan of over 50 years, with many lasting up to 100
years due to durable high-density polyethylene (HDPE) pipes."
Hey, at least unlike solar power or wind power, oil is always available >>24/7 and won't be subject to any disruption at all!
( https://enwp.org/WP:SARC )
Only if the Straits of Hormuz are open.
On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 13:40:46 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Until the sun goes down.
So you get a battery. No that long ago I read China is making good
progress on sodium-ion batteries.
On 4/2/2026 3:27 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 4/1/2026 5:06 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 4/1/2026 12:57 PM, s|b wrote:
On Tue, 31 Mar 2026 15:48:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go back to >>>>>>> sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Solar panels and wind turbines are doing a pretty good job.
They work until it gets too cold, less than 25 F, or over 105 F
here in Texas,
You keep saying this.
And somehow it's still not true.
William Hyde
Come to Texas during a solid freeze and I will show you.
So Texans do not prepare properly for cold weather.ÿ What else is new?
You can always run away with Cruz when the weather gets nippy.
Other jurisdictions manage to use wind turbines in colder and even
warmer weather.ÿ Solar panels also.
When I left Texas, it was in the middle of a campaign for county
engineer.ÿ The campaign issue was not ability, qualifications, or
experience, but just who was the most conservative candidate.ÿ Perhaps
ERCOT hires on the same basis.
William Hyde
You can put heaters in the wind turbines to keep them from icing and tripping on vibration, most people north of the Mason-Dixon line do. But
the heaters use almost as much power as the wind turbines generate on a
not blustery day (Winnie the Pooh reference there).
turbines in Texas have heaters in them because their owners are willing
to take the infrequent generation loss.
And the wind does not generally blow above 105 F or so.ÿ So the wind turbines make little or no power as the heat increases.
On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 13:40:46 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 4/2/2026 11:28 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
No, you can't. I have solar panels and they work just fine
at 116F.
(I have no idea how many øC that is and can not be bothered to find
out.)
And if you are already running all of the backup gas turbines, peakers,
and battery plants, your customers are going to be pissed off when they
get blacked out.
The EU is talking about building small nuclear reactors. Trump is
pushing countries away from oil; those who haven't heavily invested in renewables are rethinking this now. This in combination with those
smaller reactors might be the next best thing.
On 2026-04-03, s|b wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 13:40:46 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 4/2/2026 11:28 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
No, you can't. I have solar panels and they work just fine
at 116F.
(I have no idea how many øC that is and can not be bothered to find
out.)
Units says 46.(6) øC:
You have: tempF(116)
You want: tempC
46.666667
[...]
And if you are already running all of the backup gas turbines, peakers, >>> and battery plants, your customers are going to be pissed off when they >>> get blacked out.
The EU is talking about building small nuclear reactors. Trump is
pushing countries away from oil; those who haven't heavily invested in
renewables are rethinking this now. This in combination with those
smaller reactors might be the next best thing.
Sadly the same propaganda machine that boosts Trump and MAGA is probably >still boosting anti-renewables propaganda.
I suspect the small modular nuclear reactors are also a
bubble right now. The technology isn't difficult, but
everything else from high-assay low enriched fuel production [*]
to waste disposal (SMRs produce more waste per KWh than
the larger reactors) and security is.
to waste disposal (SMRs produce more waste per KWh than
the larger reactors) and security is.
More waste per pound, but less radioactive waste. Unfortunately the
laws regarding handling and disposal of low-level radioactive waste
in the US are very confusing and don't take into account a lot of
factors that can affect long-term hazard.
The fuel production is an issue.
Security... I don't know... here we have a risk profile that is much
smaller than that of a larger plant but is it small enough? The key
to security is to reduce the risk profile and not the vulnerability
profile.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:...
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five-countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth, then
Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude oil and lease
condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d),
So, with known US reserves of 46.4 BB, producing at 13.58 MBD,
that's a bit less than 10 years before it all runs out.
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five-
countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth,
then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude oil and lease
condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d),
comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51
mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible for
39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
ÿÿÿÿÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting the
whole world.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go back to
sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
ÿÿÿÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
ÿÿÿÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
ÿÿÿÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply
because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
ÿÿÿÿbliss
On 3/31/26 21:58, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:ÿÿÿÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
ÿÿÿÿÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
ÿÿÿÿÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting
the whole world.
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go back to
sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
ÿÿÿÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
ÿÿÿÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
ÿÿÿÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply
because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
These are older messages which I was saving until I had the chance to post them here on this subject.
BETA Technologies raises $368M to fund electric aircraft development. <https://investors.beta.team ? news-events ? press-releases ? detail ?
85 ? beta-technologies-r>
As I said before I am well aware that the present world is
built on energy but I will never believe that something that poisons
the air we breathe no matter how subtly is worth using for
our human convenience when it will eventually disrupt our society
and our technological civilization.
BETA Technologies raises $368M to fund electric aircraft development. <corrupted url full of high-bit characters removed here>
BETA Technologies raises $368M to fund electric aircraft development.
My employers are doing this too. The good news is that it allows distributed propulsion and there are a lot of things you can do with a lot of small engines that you can't do with a couple of really big ones. The bad news
is that battery energy density still kills you. Batteries are still a
far cry from jet fuel, although they improve every day.
On 2026-04-04, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:small
BETA Technologies raises $368M to fund electric aircraft development.
My employers are doing this too. The good news is that it allows distributed
propulsion and there are a lot of things you can do with a lot of
newsengines that you can't do with a couple of really big ones. The bad
is that battery energy density still kills you. Batteries are still a
far cry from jet fuel, although they improve every day.
Start with the problems you can solve. When people hear electric
aircraft, they think wide-body jets crossing the Atlantic and dismiss
the whole topic. When I hear electric aircraft, I think island
hopping across archipelagos. There has to be a market for that.
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:41:24 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
On 2026-04-04, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
BETA Technologies raises $368M to fund electric aircraft development.
My employers are doing this too. The good news is that it allows distributed
propulsion and there are a lot of things you can do with a lot of small
engines that you can't do with a couple of really big ones. The bad news >>> is that battery energy density still kills you. Batteries are still a
far cry from jet fuel, although they improve every day.
Start with the problems you can solve. When people hear electric
aircraft, they think wide-body jets crossing the Atlantic and dismiss
the whole topic. When I hear electric aircraft, I think island
hopping across archipelagos. There has to be a market for that.
I wonder if electric dirigibles would work?
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
I suspect the small modular nuclear reactors are also a
bubble right now. The technology isn't difficult, but
everything else from high-assay low enriched fuel production [*]
to waste disposal (SMRs produce more waste per KWh than
the larger reactors) and security is.
More waste per pound, but less radioactive waste.
Security... I don't know... here we have a risk profile that is much
smaller than that of a larger plant but is it small enough?
On 3/31/2026 2:47 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:...
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five-countries/ >>>
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth, then
Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude oil and lease
condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d),
So, with known US reserves of 46.4 BB, producing at 13.58 MBD,
that's a bit less than 10 years before it all runs out.
What is your definition for "known" ?
Is it booked which is a legal and accounting term ?
Or is it some oldtimer who worked in the patch and has three fingers on
one hand and two fingers on the other hand ?
Nevertheless, many experts will tell you that the USA has around 200
years of crude oil at the current production rate.
The real question is how do we get the crude oil and natural gas to
market in the Rockies ? Getting pipelines and trucks in the Rockies to >service a well is difficult and expensive.
On 2026-04-04, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
BETA Technologies raises $368M to fund electric aircraft development.
My employers are doing this too. The good news is that it allows distributed
propulsion and there are a lot of things you can do with a lot of small
engines that you can't do with a couple of really big ones. The bad news
is that battery energy density still kills you. Batteries are still a
far cry from jet fuel, although they improve every day.
Start with the problems you can solve. When people hear electric
aircraft, they think wide-body jets crossing the Atlantic and dismiss
the whole topic. When I hear electric aircraft, I think island
hopping across archipelagos. There has to be a market for that.
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:41:24 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber ><naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
On 2026-04-04, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:small
BETA Technologies raises $368M to fund electric aircraft development.
My employers are doing this too. The good news is that it allows = >distributed
propulsion and there are a lot of things you can do with a lot of =
engines that you can't do with a couple of really big ones. The bad = >news
is that battery energy density still kills you. Batteries are still a= >=20
far cry from jet fuel, although they improve every day.
Start with the problems you can solve. When people hear electric
aircraft, they think wide-body jets crossing the Atlantic and dismiss
the whole topic. When I hear electric aircraft, I think island
hopping across archipelagos. There has to be a market for that.
I wonder if electric dirigibles would work?
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:41:24 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
On 2026-04-04, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
BETA Technologies raises $368M to fund electric aircraft development.
My employers are doing this too. The good news is that it allows distributed
propulsion and there are a lot of things you can do with a lot of small
engines that you can't do with a couple of really big ones. The bad news >>> is that battery energy density still kills you. Batteries are still a
far cry from jet fuel, although they improve every day.
Start with the problems you can solve. When people hear electric
aircraft, they think wide-body jets crossing the Atlantic and dismiss
the whole topic. When I hear electric aircraft, I think island
hopping across archipelagos. There has to be a market for that.
I wonder if electric dirigibles would work?
I wonder if electric dirigibles would work?
I wonder if electric dirigibles would work?
The real question is how do we get the crude oil and natural gas to
market in the Rockies ? Getting pipelines and trucks in the Rockies to
service a well is difficult and expensive.
No the real question is how do we reduce, then eliminate the use of fossil fuels for energy production. We already know how (e.g. renewable sources of electrical power, conservation, et alia). It's just a matter of time.
Go ask Germany and the UK how well their renewable power generation is >doing. Especially the extraordinary costs and the lack of
dispatchability. Germany was incredibly stupid and even shut down their >nuclear power plants. Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power
plants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:41:24 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber ><naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
On 2026-04-04, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
BETA Technologies raises $368M to fund electric aircraft development.
My employers are doing this too. The good news is that it allows >distributed
propulsion and there are a lot of things you can do with a lot of small
engines that you can't do with a couple of really big ones. The bad news >>> is that battery energy density still kills you. Batteries are still a
far cry from jet fuel, although they improve every day.
Start with the problems you can solve. When people hear electric
aircraft, they think wide-body jets crossing the Atlantic and dismiss
the whole topic. When I hear electric aircraft, I think island
hopping across archipelagos. There has to be a market for that.
I wonder if electric dirigibles would work?
On 4/4/2026 1:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:to
...
The real question is how do we get the crude oil and natural gas to
market in the Rockies ? Getting pipelines and trucks in the Rockies
fossilservice a well is difficult and expensive.
No the real question is how do we reduce, then eliminate the use of
sources offuels for energy production. We already know how (e.g. renewable
electrical power, conservation, et alia). It's just a matter of time.
Go ask Germany and the UK how well their renewable power generation is >doing. Especially the extraordinary costs and the lack of
dispatchability. Germany was incredibly stupid and even shut down their
nuclear power plants. Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power
plants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
You are with less than 10% of the people in the USA. Most people are
very used to the lights coming on when they turn the light switch on.
Good luck with phasing out fossil fuels in the USA.
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 21:13:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/4/2026 1:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...
The real question is how do we get the crude oil and natural gas to
market in the Rockies ? Getting pipelines and trucks in the Rockies to >>>> service a well is difficult and expensive.
No the real question is how do we reduce, then eliminate the use of fossil >>> fuels for energy production. We already know how (e.g. renewable sources of
electrical power, conservation, et alia). It's just a matter of time.
Go ask Germany and the UK how well their renewable power generation is >>doing. Especially the extraordinary costs and the lack of >>dispatchability. Germany was incredibly stupid and even shut down their >>nuclear power plants. Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power >>plants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
You are with less than 10% of the people in the USA. Most people are
very used to the lights coming on when they turn the light switch on.
Good luck with phasing out fossil fuels in the USA.
And yet the plain fact is that fossil fuels are not renewable. When
they are gone, they are gone forever.
So, indeed, eventually we will find something else.
Because you are right: the lights must stay on.
In article <4bv4tk13ogip024tg5id5ts3msina4n939@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 21:13:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/4/2026 1:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...
The real question is how do we get the crude oil and natural gas to
market in the Rockies ? Getting pipelines and trucks in the Rockies to >>>>> service a well is difficult and expensive.
No the real question is how do we reduce, then eliminate the use of fossil >>>> fuels for energy production. We already know how (e.g. renewable sources of
electrical power, conservation, et alia). It's just a matter of time.
Go ask Germany and the UK how well their renewable power generation is
doing. Especially the extraordinary costs and the lack of
dispatchability. Germany was incredibly stupid and even shut down their >>> nuclear power plants. Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power
plants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
You are with less than 10% of the people in the USA. Most people are
very used to the lights coming on when they turn the light switch on.
Good luck with phasing out fossil fuels in the USA.
And yet the plain fact is that fossil fuels are not renewable. When
they are gone, they are gone forever.
So, indeed, eventually we will find something else.
Because you are right: the lights must stay on.
Do they, though? Other societies have encountered challenges they
could not or were not willing to meet: Harappa, the late Bronze
Age cultures of the Eastern Mediterranean, the Classic Maya,
Roman Britain and so on and so forth. Perhaps Americans, faced
with the choice of replacing oil or vanishing, will simply
choose to perish. It will be interesting to see which they
opt for.
Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power
plants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
I wonder if electric dirigibles would work?
Unfortunately, LTA craft are inherently large, slow, fragile kites,
and probably cannot compete (outside of specific niches) with HTA.
In article <4bv4tk13ogip024tg5id5ts3msina4n939@4ax.com>,Rockies to
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 21:13:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/4/2026 1:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...
The real question is how do we get the crude oil and natural gas to
market in the Rockies ? Getting pipelines and trucks in the
sources ofservice a well is difficult and expensive.
No the real question is how do we reduce, then eliminate the use of fossil
fuels for energy production. We already know how (e.g. renewable
time.electrical power, conservation, et alia). It's just a matter of
Go ask Germany and the UK how well their renewable power generation is
theirdoing. Especially the extraordinary costs and the lack of >>>dispatchability. Germany was incredibly stupid and even shut down
nuclear power plants. Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power >>>plants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
You are with less than 10% of the people in the USA. Most people are >>>very used to the lights coming on when they turn the light switch on. >>>Good luck with phasing out fossil fuels in the USA.
And yet the plain fact is that fossil fuels are not renewable. When
they are gone, they are gone forever.
So, indeed, eventually we will find something else.
Because you are right: the lights must stay on.
Do they, though? Other societies have encountered challenges they
could not or were not willing to meet: Harappa, the late Bronze
Age cultures of the Eastern Mediterranean, the Classic Maya,
Roman Britain and so on and so forth. Perhaps Americans, faced
with the choice of replacing oil or vanishing, will simply
choose to perish. It will be interesting to see which they
opt for.
On Sun, 5 Apr 2026 15:33:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:
In article <4bv4tk13ogip024tg5id5ts3msina4n939@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 21:13:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/4/2026 1:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...
Go ask Germany and the UK how well their renewable power generation is >>>>doing. Especially the extraordinary costs and the lack of >>>>dispatchability. Germany was incredibly stupid and even shut down their >>>>nuclear power plants. Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power >>>>plants after they restarted their coal power plants first.The real question is how do we get the crude oil and natural gas to >>>>>> market in the Rockies ? Getting pipelines and trucks in the Rockies to >>>>>> service a well is difficult and expensive.
No the real question is how do we reduce, then eliminate the use of fossil
fuels for energy production. We already know how (e.g. renewable >sources of
electrical power, conservation, et alia). It's just a matter of time. >>>>
You are with less than 10% of the people in the USA. Most people are >>>>very used to the lights coming on when they turn the light switch on. >>>>Good luck with phasing out fossil fuels in the USA.
And yet the plain fact is that fossil fuels are not renewable. When
they are gone, they are gone forever.
So, indeed, eventually we will find something else.
Because you are right: the lights must stay on.
Do they, though? Other societies have encountered challenges they
could not or were not willing to meet: Harappa, the late Bronze
Age cultures of the Eastern Mediterranean, the Classic Maya,
Roman Britain and so on and so forth. Perhaps Americans, faced
with the choice of replacing oil or vanishing, will simply
choose to perish. It will be interesting to see which they
opt for.
Although this thread is framed by the context of the USA, when we run
out of fossil fuels, /everybody/ will run out of fossil fuels. As with >Gibbon's explanation of why modern (well, modern to him) Europe cannot
fall to Eastern barbarian attacks as the Western Empire did, multiple >societies provide multiple leaders, some of whom will find a way to
cope with the problem.
On 2026-04-05, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power
plants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
Well, as alternate history it is actually on-topic here.
Go ask Germany and the UK how well their renewable power generation is doing.Here in the UK it is held to be going pretty well. Support is about
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five-
countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth,
then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude oil and lease
condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d),
comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51
mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible for
39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
ÿÿÿÿÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting the
whole world.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go back to
sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
ÿÿÿÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
ÿÿÿÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
ÿÿÿÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply
because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
ÿÿÿÿbliss
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five-
countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth,
then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude oil and lease
condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d), >>>>> comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51
mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible
for 39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
ÿÿÿÿÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting
the whole world.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go back to
sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
ÿÿÿÿÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
ÿÿÿÿÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
ÿÿÿÿÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply
because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ?ÿ I hear that the
cost is up to $40 billion now.
Lynn
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five-
countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth,
then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude oil and lease
condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d), >>>>> comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51
mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible for >>>>> 39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
ÿÿÿÿÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting the >>>> whole world.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go back to
sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
ÿÿÿÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
ÿÿÿÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
ÿÿÿÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply
because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
ÿÿÿÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ? I hear that the
cost is up to $40 billion now.
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> writes:
On 2026-04-05, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power
plants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
Well, as alternate history it is actually on-topic here.
Lynn's worldview is somewhat warped by his worship of the trump,
and his reliance on garbage websites (gatwaydumbshit, wattsnotupwiththat,
et alia) spouting nonsense clickbait (and profiting greatly therefrom).
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five-
countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth, >>>>>> then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude oil and lease
condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d), >>>>>> comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51
mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible for >>>>>> 39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
ÿÿÿÿÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting the >>>>> whole world.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go back to
sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
ÿÿÿÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
ÿÿÿÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
ÿÿÿÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply
because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
ÿÿÿÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ? I hear that the
cost is up to $40 billion now.
It is being built. And when your precious oil runs out, and it is guaranteed to, we'll be laughing at the fools in texas.
On 4/6/2026 6:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five-
countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth, >>>>>>> then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude oil and lease >>>>>>> condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d), >>>>>>> comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51 >>>>>>> mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible for >>>>>>> 39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
ÿÿÿÿÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting the >>>>>> whole world.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go back to
sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
ÿÿÿÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
ÿÿÿÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
ÿÿÿÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply
because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
ÿÿÿÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ? I hear that the
cost is up to $40 billion now.
It is being built. And when your precious oil runs out, and it is guaranteed
to, we'll be laughing at the fools in texas.
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion. Wow !
On 4/6/2026 6:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five-
countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth, >>>>>>> then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude oil and lease >>>>>>> condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d), >>>>>>> comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51 >>>>>>> mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible for >>>>>>> 39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting >>>>>> the
whole world.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿbliss
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go back to
sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
ÿ ÿÿÿÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
ÿ ÿÿÿÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
ÿ ÿÿÿÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
ÿ ÿÿÿÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply
because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
ÿ ÿÿÿÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ?ÿ I hear that the
cost is up to $40 billion now.
It is being built.ÿ And when your precious oil runs out, and it is
guaranteed
to, we'll be laughing at the fools in texas.
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion.ÿ Wow!
Lynn
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/6/2026 6:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the Worldƒ??s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five- >>>>>>>> countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth, >>>>>>>> then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the worldƒ??s largest producer of crude oil and lease >>>>>>>> condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d), >>>>>>>> comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51 >>>>>>>> mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible for >>>>>>>> 39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting the
whole world.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿbliss
The world is built on energy.?ÿ I guess that you want to go back to >>>>>> sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply
because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ? I hear that the >>>> cost is up to $40 billion now.
It is being built. And when your precious oil runs out, and it is guaranteed
to, we'll be laughing at the fools in texas.
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion. Wow !
10% of Musk's net worth. Yawn.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/6/2026 6:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five- >>>>>>>> countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth, >>>>>>>> then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude oil and lease >>>>>>>> condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d), >>>>>>>> comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51 >>>>>>>> mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible for >>>>>>>> 39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
ÿÿÿÿÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting the >>>>>>> whole world.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go back to >>>>>> sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
ÿÿÿÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
ÿÿÿÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
ÿÿÿÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply
because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
ÿÿÿÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ? I hear that the >>>> cost is up to $40 billion now.
It is being built. And when your precious oil runs out, and it is guaranteed
to, we'll be laughing at the fools in texas.
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion. Wow !
10% of Musk's net worth. Yawn.
On 4/6/26 19:20, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 4/6/2026 6:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ?ÿ I hear that the >>>> cost is up to $40 billion now.
It is being built.ÿ And when your precious oil runs out, and it is
guaranteed
to, we'll be laughing at the fools in texas.
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
Why do you call San Franciso to Los Angeles, no where? even vice
versa from LA to SF is not nowhere.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion.ÿ Wow!
On 4/6/26 14:25, Lynn McGuire wrote:
theSo how is that train to nowhere in California going ?? I hear that
thecost is up to $40 billion now.
Every modern nation but the USA has high speed rail at least between
significant cities in that nation and sometime between nations. We in
USA could replace trucking with rail deliveries with expansion and >modifications of the existing rail networks.
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:fourth,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/6/2026 6:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five- >>>>>>>>> countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant
and leasethen Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude oil
(mb/d),condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day
9.51comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at
responsible formb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were
of.39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿNothing to be particularly proud
products thereof are polluting theÿÿÿÿÿFilthy petrochemicals and the
back towhole world.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go
which yousailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿWe gave devised other means of transport
the job.refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
ÿÿÿÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do
power toÿÿÿÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind
the past simplymove across the oceans.
ÿÿÿÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to
thebecause it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
ÿÿÿÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ? I hear that
thancost is up to $40 billion now.
It is being built. And when your precious oil runs out, and it is guaranteed
to, we'll be laughing at the fools in texas.
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion. Wow !
10% of Musk's net worth. Yawn.
I don't think Lynn has ever even been to California, but for those
who wonder at the price tag, the high speed rail needs to cross two
mountain chains (read tunnels), and several major fault lines over more
400 miles.
In article <p2k7tkdkt04ck8cnpeentkkhd3dv4c0r9t@4ax.com>,to
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2026 15:33:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:
In article <4bv4tk13ogip024tg5id5ts3msina4n939@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 21:13:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire >>>><lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/4/2026 1:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...
The real question is how do we get the crude oil and natural gas
Rockies tomarket in the Rockies ? Getting pipelines and trucks in the
of fossilservice a well is difficult and expensive.
No the real question is how do we reduce, then eliminate the use
time.fuels for energy production. We already know how (e.g. renewable >>sources of
electrical power, conservation, et alia). It's just a matter of
is
Go ask Germany and the UK how well their renewable power generation
theirdoing. Especially the extraordinary costs and the lack of >>>>>dispatchability. Germany was incredibly stupid and even shut down
nuclear power plants. Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power
areplants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
You are with less than 10% of the people in the USA. Most people
on.very used to the lights coming on when they turn the light switch
Good luck with phasing out fossil fuels in the USA.
And yet the plain fact is that fossil fuels are not renewable. When >>>>they are gone, they are gone forever.
So, indeed, eventually we will find something else.
Because you are right: the lights must stay on.
Do they, though? Other societies have encountered challenges they
could not or were not willing to meet: Harappa, the late Bronze
Age cultures of the Eastern Mediterranean, the Classic Maya,
Roman Britain and so on and so forth. Perhaps Americans, faced
with the choice of replacing oil or vanishing, will simply
choose to perish. It will be interesting to see which they
opt for.
Although this thread is framed by the context of the USA, when we run
out of fossil fuels, /everybody/ will run out of fossil fuels. As with >>Gibbon's explanation of why modern (well, modern to him) Europe cannot
fall to Eastern barbarian attacks as the Western Empire did, multiple >>societies provide multiple leaders, some of whom will find a way to
cope with the problem.
Even granting that there is a way to cope, that does not necessarily
follow. Consider how the late Bronze Age cultures of the Eastern >Mediterranean survived the collapse in recognizable form.
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 15:16:43 -0700, Bobbie Sellers ><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 4/6/26 14:25, Lynn McGuire wrote:
<the eternal topic: Mr Oil vs the world>
theSo how is that train to nowhere in California going ?=A0 I hear that = >the=20
cost is up to $40 billion now.
Every modern nation but the USA has high speed rail at least between >>significant cities in that nation and sometime between nations. We in =
USA could replace trucking with rail deliveries with expansion and=20 >>modifications of the existing rail networks.
What makes you think the USA is a modern nation? Perhaps the Torch of >Modernity has passed us by, leaving us in the Backwater of History.
Nukes and all.
We /could/ replace trucks with trains but we would have to have tracks
that are maintained to prevent the various rail disasters that have
occurred over the past several years.
On Tue, 07 Apr 2026 14:15:40 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/6/2026 6:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the Worldƒ??s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five- >>>>>>>>>> countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth, >>>>>>>>>> then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the worldƒ??s largest producer of crude oil and lease >>>>>>>>>> condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d), >>>>>>>>>> comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51 >>>>>>>>>> mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible for >>>>>>>>>> 39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting the
whole world.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿbliss
The world is built on energy.?ÿ I guess that you want to go back to >>>>>>>> sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply >>>>>>> because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ? I hear that the >>>>>> cost is up to $40 billion now.
It is being built. And when your precious oil runs out, and it is guaranteed
to, we'll be laughing at the fools in texas.
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion. Wow !
10% of Musk's net worth. Yawn.
I don't think Lynn has ever even been to California, but for those
who wonder at the price tag, the high speed rail needs to cross two
mountain chains (read tunnels), and several major fault lines over more than >> 400 miles.
IOW, earthquake-related disruptions are /guaranteed/.
Great planning, guys!
On Tue, 07 Apr 2026 14:15:40 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion. Wow !
10% of Musk's net worth. Yawn.
I don't think Lynn has ever even been to California, but for those
who wonder at the price tag, the high speed rail needs to cross two >>mountain chains (read tunnels), and several major fault lines over more = >than
400 miles.
IOW, earthquake-related disruptions are /guaranteed/.
Great planning, guys!
I don't think Lynn has ever even been to California, but for those
who wonder at the price tag, the high speed rail needs to cross two
mountain chains (read tunnels), and several major fault lines over more than >400 miles.
What makes you think the USA is a modern nation? Perhaps the Torch of >Modernity has passed us by, leaving us in the Backwater of History.
Nukes and all.
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
What makes you think the USA is a modern nation? Perhaps the Torch of
Modernity has passed us by, leaving us in the Backwater of History.
Nukes and all.
Are you saying we're a postmodern nation? That could be!
--scott
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2026 14:15:40 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion. Wow !
10% of Musk's net worth. Yawn.
I don't think Lynn has ever even been to California, but for those
who wonder at the price tag, the high speed rail needs to cross two
mountain chains (read tunnels), and several major fault lines over more = >> than
400 miles.
IOW, earthquake-related disruptions are /guaranteed/.
Great planning, guys!
Not sure what your point is, but the vast majority of
earthquakes in california are less than magnitude 4,
which would not have any effect on a properly constructed
tunnel (other than temporary closure for inspection).
See the recent tunnel project between Austria
and Italy through the alps for an example of such.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_Base_Tunnel
The far less frequent damaging quakes can be engineered
for or around. For example, the HSR line never crosses
the San Andreas fault. It will tunnel over the lower end
of the Calaveras fault near Gilroy, which isn't as
dangerous as the Hayward or San Andreas faults.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_of_California_High-Speed_Rail
There will be several tunnels from the Antelope valley
into the Los Angeles basin, east of I5 along the highway
14 route.
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
I don't think Lynn has ever even been to California, but for those
who wonder at the price tag, the high speed rail needs to cross two
mountain chains (read tunnels), and several major fault lines over more than >> 400 miles.
It would be nice if they would just get one section at a time operating, though. Start small and expand.
--scott
On 4/4/2026 1:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...
The real question is how do we get the crude oil and natural gas to
market in the Rockies ?ÿ Getting pipelines and trucks in the Rockies to
service a well is difficult and expensive.
No the real question is how do we reduce, then eliminate the use of
fossil
fuels for energy production.ÿ We already know how (e.g. renewable
sources of
electrical power, conservation, et alia). It's just a matter of time.
Go ask Germany and the UK how well their renewable power generation is doing.ÿ Especially the extraordinary costs and the lack of
dispatchability.ÿ Germany was incredibly stupid and even shut down their nuclear power plants.ÿ Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power
plants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
You are with less than 10% of the people in the USA.ÿ Most people are
very used to the lights coming on when they turn the light switch on.
Good luck with phasing out fossil fuels in the USA.
Lynn
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
I don't think Lynn has ever even been to California, but for those
who wonder at the price tag, the high speed rail needs to cross two >>mountain chains (read tunnels), and several major fault lines over more than >>400 miles.
It would be nice if they would just get one section at a time operating, >though. Start small and expand.
On 4/4/2026 10:13 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 4/4/2026 1:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...
The real question is how do we get the crude oil and natural gas to
market in the Rockies ?ÿ Getting pipelines and trucks in the Rockies to >>>> service a well is difficult and expensive.
No the real question is how do we reduce, then eliminate the use of
fossil
fuels for energy production.ÿ We already know how (e.g. renewable
sources of
electrical power, conservation, et alia). It's just a matter of time.
Go ask Germany and the UK how well their renewable power generation is
doing.ÿ Especially the extraordinary costs and the lack of
dispatchability.ÿ Germany was incredibly stupid and even shut down their
nuclear power plants.ÿ Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power
plants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
You are with less than 10% of the people in the USA.ÿ Most people are
very used to the lights coming on when they turn the light switch on.
Good luck with phasing out fossil fuels in the USA.
Lynn
During the whole of 2024, renewables supplied over 50% of the UK's
total electricity.
That's a lot of greenhouse gases NOT being emitted.
Yes, you still need peakers and/or storage, but don't let the
perfect be the enemy of the good.
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 16:09:50 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:
In article <p2k7tkdkt04ck8cnpeentkkhd3dv4c0r9t@4ax.com>,of fossil
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2026 15:33:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James >>>Nicoll) wrote:
In article <4bv4tk13ogip024tg5id5ts3msina4n939@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 21:13:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire >>>>><lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/4/2026 1:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...
The real question is how do we get the crude oil and natural gas to >>>>>>>> market in the Rockies ? Getting pipelines and trucks in the Rockies to
service a well is difficult and expensive.
No the real question is how do we reduce, then eliminate the use
fuels for energy production. We already know how (e.g. renewable >>>sources ofGo ask Germany and the UK how well their renewable power generation is >>>>>>doing. Especially the extraordinary costs and the lack of >>>>>>dispatchability. Germany was incredibly stupid and even shut down their >>>>>>nuclear power plants. Now Germany is restarting their nuclear power >>>>>>plants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
electrical power, conservation, et alia). It's just a matter of time. >>>>>>
You are with less than 10% of the people in the USA. Most people are >>>>>>very used to the lights coming on when they turn the light switch on. >>>>>>Good luck with phasing out fossil fuels in the USA.
And yet the plain fact is that fossil fuels are not renewable. When >>>>>they are gone, they are gone forever.
So, indeed, eventually we will find something else.
Because you are right: the lights must stay on.
Do they, though? Other societies have encountered challenges they
could not or were not willing to meet: Harappa, the late Bronze
Age cultures of the Eastern Mediterranean, the Classic Maya,
Roman Britain and so on and so forth. Perhaps Americans, faced
with the choice of replacing oil or vanishing, will simply
choose to perish. It will be interesting to see which they
opt for.
Although this thread is framed by the context of the USA, when we run
out of fossil fuels, /everybody/ will run out of fossil fuels. As with >>>Gibbon's explanation of why modern (well, modern to him) Europe cannot >>>fall to Eastern barbarian attacks as the Western Empire did, multiple >>>societies provide multiple leaders, some of whom will find a way to
cope with the problem.
Even granting that there is a way to cope, that does not necessarily >>follow. Consider how the late Bronze Age cultures of the Eastern >>Mediterranean survived the collapse in recognizable form.
OK, /what/ does not follow?
On 4/7/26 12:05, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
What makes you think the USA is a modern nation? Perhaps the Torch of
Modernity has passed us by, leaving us in the Backwater of History.
Nukes and all.
Are you saying we're a postmodern nation? That could be!
--scott
Indeed we went from a representative form of a Democratic Republic
to a decadent empire in just one long lifetime. The election of 47
seems to
ensure our further decline as he breaks with our allies and we may end
up without any Pacific extension as he is an American Firster. Which political viewpoint or creed was imagined to be eliminated by 1945.
bliss - who won't be here as the West Coast is flooded by the rising
Pacific Ocean
On 2026-04-07, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 4/7/26 12:05, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
What makes you think the USA is a modern nation? Perhaps the Torch of
Modernity has passed us by, leaving us in the Backwater of History.
Nukes and all.
Are you saying we're a postmodern nation? That could be!
--scott
Indeed we went from a representative form of a Democratic Republic
to a decadent empire in just one long lifetime. The election of 47
seems to
That one thing keeps puzzling me. Why does the man himself and his team,
who claim the 2020 election was "stolen" from them, number Trump the
47th president? Shouldn't they be all numbering him 45th?
ensure our further decline as he breaks with our allies and we may end
up without any Pacific extension as he is an American Firster. Which
political viewpoint or creed was imagined to be eliminated by 1945.
bliss - who won't be here as the West Coast is flooded by the rising
Pacific Ocean
On Tue, 07 Apr 2026 14:15:40 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/6/2026 6:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the Worldƒ??s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five- >>>>>>>>>> countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth, >>>>>>>>>> then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the worldƒ??s largest producer of crude oil and lease >>>>>>>>>> condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d), >>>>>>>>>> comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51 >>>>>>>>>> mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible for >>>>>>>>>> 39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting the
whole world.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿbliss
The world is built on energy.?ÿ I guess that you want to go back to >>>>>>>> sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply >>>>>>> because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ? I hear that the >>>>>> cost is up to $40 billion now.
It is being built. And when your precious oil runs out, and it is guaranteed
to, we'll be laughing at the fools in texas.
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion. Wow !
10% of Musk's net worth. Yawn.
I don't think Lynn has ever even been to California, but for those
who wonder at the price tag, the high speed rail needs to cross two
mountain chains (read tunnels), and several major fault lines over more than >> 400 miles.
IOW, earthquake-related disruptions are /guaranteed/.
Great planning, guys!
On 4/7/2026 8:40 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2026 14:15:40 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/6/2026 6:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the Worldƒ??s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five- >>>>>>>>>>> countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant >>>>>>>>>>> fourth,
then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the worldƒ??s largest producer of crude oil and >>>>>>>>>>> lease
condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day >>>>>>>>>>> (mb/d),
comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at >>>>>>>>>>> 9.51
mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were
responsible for
39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are >>>>>>>>>> polluting the
whole world.
ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿbliss
The world is built on energy.?ÿ I guess that you want to go >>>>>>>>> back to
sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
ÿÿ ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel >>>>>>>> poisoning you prefer.
ÿÿ ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
ÿÿ ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
ÿÿ ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply >>>>>>>> because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
ÿÿ ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ?ÿ I hear
that the
cost is up to $40 billion now.
It is being built.ÿ And when your precious oil runs out, and it is >>>>>> guaranteed
to, we'll be laughing at the fools in texas.
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion.ÿ Wow !
10% of Musk's net worth.ÿ Yawn.
I don't think Lynn has ever even been to California, but for those
who wonder at the price tag, the high speed rail needs to cross two
mountain chains (read tunnels), and several major fault lines over
more than
400 miles.
IOW, earthquake-related disruptions are /guaranteed/.
Great planning, guys!
Frankly the same can be said of ANY human construction in California and history proves it.
JR Tokai Unveils Solar Initiative for Bullet Train Barriers
Jan 6, 2025 05:28 PM ET
JR Tokai pioneers sustainability by installing perovskite solar cells along the Tokaido Shinkansen, harnessing solar power to illuminate the future of rail travel.
Central Japan Railway Co. (JR Tokai) is set to install perovskite solar cells on noise barriers along the Tokaido Shinkansen Line, covering approximately 650 kilometers of track. The electricity generated from these cells is intended to power lighting at stations and other rail facilities. Demonstration experiments will begin this month at a research center in Komaki, Aichi Prefecture, in collaboration with Sekisui Chemical.
Trump may be innumerate which would be a
proximate cause of a lot of his misteps and we
know he is pretty much illiterate except for
his bedside book of Adoph Hitler's speeches.
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:that =
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 15:16:43 -0700, Bobbie Sellers >><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 4/6/26 14:25, Lynn McGuire wrote:
<the eternal topic: Mr Oil vs the world>
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ?=A0 I hear
=the=20
cost is up to $40 billion now.
Every modern nation but the USA has high speed rail at least between >>>significant cities in that nation and sometime between nations. We in
and=20the
USA could replace trucking with rail deliveries with expansion
modifications of the existing rail networks.
What makes you think the USA is a modern nation? Perhaps the Torch of >>Modernity has passed us by, leaving us in the Backwater of History.
Nukes and all.
We /could/ replace trucks with trains but we would have to have tracks
that are maintained to prevent the various rail disasters that have >>occurred over the past several years.
Take the federal dollars gifted to airports and instead use it
for track maintenance and right-of-way improvements. Make the
flyers pay for airports[*]. Electrify the major right-of-way
rail corridors and convert to high-speed standards where
feasible.
Several of the recent rail disasters have been caused by
trains with abnormally (by historical standards) long
consists, often up to 15000 feet (three miles) long, which
has knock-on effects on train control (particularly
stopping distance).
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
What makes you think the USA is a modern nation? Perhaps the Torch of >>Modernity has passed us by, leaving us in the Backwater of History.
Nukes and all.
Are you saying we're a postmodern nation? That could be!
On 4/7/26 08:40, Paul S Person wrote:https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five-
On Tue, 07 Apr 2026 14:15:40 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/6/2026 6:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
fourth,countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant
oil and leasethen Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude
9.51condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d),
comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at
responsible formb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were
proud of.39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿNothing to be particularly
products thereof are polluting theÿÿÿÿÿFilthy petrochemicals and the
back towhole world.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go
transport which yousailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿWe gave devised other means of
do the job.refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel >>>>>>>> poisoning you prefer.
ÿÿÿÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will
power toÿÿÿÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind
the past simplymove across the oceans.
ÿÿÿÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to
that thebecause it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
ÿÿÿÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ? I hear
guaranteedcost is up to $40 billion now.
It is being built. And when your precious oil runs out, and it is
more thanto, we'll be laughing at the fools in texas.
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion. Wow !
10% of Musk's net worth. Yawn.
I don't think Lynn has ever even been to California, but for those
who wonder at the price tag, the high speed rail needs to cross two
mountain chains (read tunnels), and several major fault lines over
400 miles.
IOW, earthquake-related disruptions are /guaranteed/.
Great planning, guys!
Earthquake and wild fires disrupt highway traffic. With quake damage
the rails at the damage site may have to be replaced and the roadbed
reset but wild fires can do
the damage to the rails and the roadbed should be fireproof enough to
resist that.
The people who love California will never leave because of those things.
No more than the people in Seattle will leave because of the proximity
to a volcano.
In article <9i9atk1eu2nridq91h7582i7v4s8csk6e4@4ax.com>,gas to
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 16:09:50 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:
In article <p2k7tkdkt04ck8cnpeentkkhd3dv4c0r9t@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2026 15:33:53 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James >>>>Nicoll) wrote:
In article <4bv4tk13ogip024tg5id5ts3msina4n939@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 21:13:39 -0500, Lynn McGuire >>>>>><lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/4/2026 1:08 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
...
The real question is how do we get the crude oil and natural
Rockies tomarket in the Rockies ? Getting pipelines and trucks in the
renewableof fossilservice a well is difficult and expensive.
No the real question is how do we reduce, then eliminate the use
fuels for energy production. We already know how (e.g.
time.sources of
electrical power, conservation, et alia). It's just a matter of
generation is
Go ask Germany and the UK how well their renewable power
theirdoing. Especially the extraordinary costs and the lack of >>>>>>>dispatchability. Germany was incredibly stupid and even shut down
powernuclear power plants. Now Germany is restarting their nuclear
areplants after they restarted their coal power plants first.
You are with less than 10% of the people in the USA. Most people
on.very used to the lights coming on when they turn the light switch
withGood luck with phasing out fossil fuels in the USA.
And yet the plain fact is that fossil fuels are not renewable. When >>>>>>they are gone, they are gone forever.
So, indeed, eventually we will find something else.
Because you are right: the lights must stay on.
Do they, though? Other societies have encountered challenges they >>>>>could not or were not willing to meet: Harappa, the late Bronze
Age cultures of the Eastern Mediterranean, the Classic Maya,
Roman Britain and so on and so forth. Perhaps Americans, faced
with the choice of replacing oil or vanishing, will simply
choose to perish. It will be interesting to see which they
opt for.
Although this thread is framed by the context of the USA, when we run >>>>out of fossil fuels, /everybody/ will run out of fossil fuels. As
cannotGibbon's explanation of why modern (well, modern to him) Europe
fall to Eastern barbarian attacks as the Western Empire did, multiple >>>>societies provide multiple leaders, some of whom will find a way to >>>>cope with the problem.
Even granting that there is a way to cope, that does not necessarily >>>follow. Consider how the late Bronze Age cultures of the Eastern >>>Mediterranean survived the collapse in recognizable form.
OK, /what/ does not follow?
That if a number of polities face the same crisis, that at least one
of them will find a solution. Maybe they will fuck it up. Maybe there
is no solution.
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 4/7/26 08:40, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 07 Apr 2026 14:15:40 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/6/2026 6:24 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the Worldƒ??s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries" >>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five- >>>>>>>>>>>> countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth, >>>>>>>>>>>> then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the worldƒ??s largest producer of crude oil and lease
condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d),
comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51 >>>>>>>>>>>> mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible for
39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting the
whole world.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿbliss
The world is built on energy.?ÿ I guess that you want to go back to >>>>>>>>>> sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you >>>>>>>>> refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel >>>>>>>>> poisoning you prefer.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job. >>>>>>>>> ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply >>>>>>>>> because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ? I hear that the >>>>>>>> cost is up to $40 billion now.
It is being built. And when your precious oil runs out, and it is guaranteed
to, we'll be laughing at the fools in texas.
I do hope that the new train to nowhere gets finished.
And the current estimated cost is $135 billion. Wow !
10% of Musk's net worth. Yawn.
I don't think Lynn has ever even been to California, but for those
who wonder at the price tag, the high speed rail needs to cross two
mountain chains (read tunnels), and several major fault lines over more than
400 miles.
IOW, earthquake-related disruptions are /guaranteed/.
Great planning, guys!
Earthquake and wild fires disrupt highway traffic. With quake damage
the rails at the damage site may have to be replaced and the roadbed
reset but wild fires can do
the damage to the rails and the roadbed should be fireproof enough to
resist that.
The people who love California will never leave because of those things.
No more than the people in Seattle will leave because of the proximity >> to a volcano.
Wildfires happen every year up here. Small earthquakes happen from
time to time. Earthquakes that are actually /felt/ occur every few
decades [1]. The Big One and Mt Rainier happen very few centuries.
And, while our earthquake repair capabilities may not match
California's (the need is less), a major earthquake could take months
to recover from. If, say, it ripped out a few bridges, collapsed a few tunnels, and wrecked several miles of track. Not to mention derailed
trains and other equipment.
[1] My parents claimed I liked laughing at the drapes in the 1949
quake. I was two at the time, so I don't remember.
In 1965, I was walking to Roosevelt HS when the sidewalk buckled in
front of me. It stayed that way for years.
The Nisqually quake in 2001 damaged the downtown, as I saw when I
reported for jury duty a few months later, and led to tougher building
codes. All it did locally was energize a DVD to try to escape. It made
it to the top of the shelf beneath the case it was in.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes_in_Washington>
shows them as 6.7 or 6.8.
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse, of
course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it holds
off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say 200
years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be off.
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which I
have been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
On 4/8/2026 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse, of
course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it holds
off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say 200
years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be off.
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which I
have been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
Considering that the Richter scale is logarithmic a scale 15 earthquake
just might actually do the impossible and sink the US West Coast into
the Pacific.
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
On 4/8/2026 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse, of
course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it holds
off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say 200
years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be off.
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which I
have been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
Considering that the Richter scale is logarithmic a scale 15 earthquake
just might actually do the impossible and sink the US West Coast into
the Pacific.
A common misconception.
The pacific plate is travelling northwards, not westwards.
That means that Los Angeles will be eventually be west of San Francisco,
and a few million years later, will be west of Seattle.
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
On 4/8/2026 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse, of
course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it holds
off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say 200
years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be off.
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which I
have been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
Considering that the Richter scale is logarithmic a scale 15 earthquake
just might actually do the impossible and sink the US West Coast into
the Pacific.
A common misconception.
The pacific plate is travelling northwards, not westwards.
That means that Los Angeles will be eventually be west of San Francisco,
and a few million years later, will be west of Seattle.
On 3/31/2026 11:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 13:48, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 3/31/2026 1:50 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 3/31/26 11:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
"Half the World?s Oil Comes From Just Five Countries"
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/half-the-worlds-oil-just-five-
countries/
USA is number one, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Canada is distant fourth,
then Iraq.
"The U.S. was the world?s largest producer of crude oil and lease
condensate in 2025, producing 13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d), >>>>> comfortably ahead of Russia at 9.87 mb/d and Saudi Arabia at 9.51
mb/ d. Combined together, those three countries were responsible
for 39% of global crude oil production in 2025."
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿNothing to be particularly proud of.
ÿÿÿÿÿFilthy petrochemicals and the products thereof are polluting
the whole world.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
The world is built on energy.ÿ I guess that you want to go back to
sailing ships and horse drawn wagons.
Lynn
ÿÿÿÿÿWe gave devised other means of transport which you
refuse to admit are better for the planet than the fossil fuel
poisoning you prefer.
ÿÿÿÿÿElectric trains, cars and trucks will do the job.
ÿÿÿÿÿModern ships that use Solar and Wind power to
move across the oceans.
ÿÿÿÿÿThat you ignore futuriity to cling to the past simply
because it enriched you and your peers is simple ignorance.
ÿÿÿÿÿbliss
So how is that train to nowhere in California going ?ÿ I hear that the
cost is up to $40 billion now.
Lynn
On 4/9/2026 7:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
On 4/8/2026 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse, of
course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it holds >>> off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say 200
years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be off.
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which I
have been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
Considering that the Richter scale is logarithmic a scale 15 earthquake
just might actually do the impossible and sink the US West Coast into
the Pacific.
A common misconception.
The pacific plate is travelling northwards, not westwards.
Yes, I know. My father was a geophysicist. I am quite aware of the
basics of plate tectonics. I used to "correct" people who thought that California would fall into the Pacific by telling them "No, its
everything EAST of the San Andreas that will fall into the Atlantic."
In article <10r9fsa$nqbv$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 4/9/2026 7:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:Yes, I know. My father was a geophysicist. I am quite aware of the
On 4/8/2026 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse, of
course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it holds >>>>> off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say 200
years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be off.
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which I
have been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
Considering that the Richter scale is logarithmic a scale 15 earthquake >>>> just might actually do the impossible and sink the US West Coast into
the Pacific.
A common misconception.
The pacific plate is travelling northwards, not westwards.
basics of plate tectonics. I used to "correct" people who thought that
California would fall into the Pacific by telling them "No, its
everything EAST of the San Andreas that will fall into the Atlantic."
Somebody, decades ago, publised a short story where that happened. It
might had been in F&SF or Galaxy. I doubt that it was in Analog.
In article <10r9fsa$nqbv$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 4/9/2026 7:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:Yes, I know. My father was a geophysicist. I am quite aware of the
On 4/8/2026 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse, of
course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it holds >> >>> off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say 200
years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be off.
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which I
have been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
Considering that the Richter scale is logarithmic a scale 15 earthquake >> >> just might actually do the impossible and sink the US West Coast into
the Pacific.
A common misconception.
The pacific plate is travelling northwards, not westwards.
basics of plate tectonics. I used to "correct" people who thought that
California would fall into the Pacific by telling them "No, its
everything EAST of the San Andreas that will fall into the Atlantic."
Somebody, decades ago, publised a short story where that happened. It
might had been in F&SF or Galaxy. I doubt that it was in Analog.
On 4/9/26 22:21, Robert Woodward wrote:
In article <10r9fsa$nqbv$1@dont-email.me>,
ÿ Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 4/9/2026 7:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:Yes, I know.ÿ My father was a geophysicist.ÿ I am quite aware of the
On 4/8/2026 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse, of
course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it
holds
off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say 200 >>>>>> years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be off.
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which I >>>>>> have been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
Considering that the Richter scale is logarithmic a scale 15
earthquake
just might actually do the impossible and sink the US West Coast into >>>>> the Pacific.
A common misconception.
The pacific plate is travelling northwards, not westwards.
basics of plate tectonics.ÿ I used to "correct" people who thought that
California would fall into the Pacific by telling them "No, its
everything EAST of the San Andreas that will fall into the Atlantic."
Somebody, decades ago, publised a short story where that happened. It
might had been in F&SF or Galaxy. I doubt that it was in Analog.
ÿÿÿÿNo that is unlikely more likely that the area East of the Sierra
Nevada range will sink into the Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico and the
Carribean.ÿ At least that is what I used
to tell people.ÿ More than likely the Pacific Ocean will submerge the Central Valley of
California and the lowlands of the coastof Southern California.ÿ Then
with all that
weight of water over the Central Valley we may have Quakes.ÿ I won't be
here
then at least not in this format.
ÿÿÿÿAnd I think the story was in Fantasy and Science Fiction Magazine.
It was
long before so much fuss was made about climate change.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ bliss
On 4/10/2026 1:42 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 4/9/26 22:21, Robert Woodward wrote:
In article <10r9fsa$nqbv$1@dont-email.me>,
ÿ Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 4/9/2026 7:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:Yes, I know.ÿ My father was a geophysicist.ÿ I am quite aware of the
On 4/8/2026 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse, of
course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it >>>>>>> holds
off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say 200 >>>>>>> years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be off. >>>>>>>
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which I >>>>>>> have been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
Considering that the Richter scale is logarithmic a scale 15
earthquake
just might actually do the impossible and sink the US West Coast into >>>>>> the Pacific.
A common misconception.
The pacific plate is travelling northwards, not westwards.
basics of plate tectonics.ÿ I used to "correct" people who thought that >>>> California would fall into the Pacific by telling them "No, its
everything EAST of the San Andreas that will fall into the Atlantic."
Somebody, decades ago, publised a short story where that happened. It
might had been in F&SF or Galaxy. I doubt that it was in Analog.
ÿÿÿÿNo that is unlikely more likely that the area East of the Sierra
Nevada range will sink into the Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico and the
Carribean.ÿ At least that is what I used
to tell people.ÿ More than likely the Pacific Ocean will submerge the
Central Valley of
California and the lowlands of the coastof Southern California.ÿ Then
with all that
weight of water over the Central Valley we may have Quakes.ÿ I won't be
here
then at least not in this format.
ÿÿÿÿAnd I think the story was in Fantasy and Science Fiction Magazine.
It was
long before so much fuss was made about climate change.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ bliss
I do recall a short story in which an area of the mid West sank,
re-creating the Western Interior Seaway that split North American
in the late Cretaceous.
On 4/10/2026 1:42 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 4/9/26 22:21, Robert Woodward wrote:
In article <10r9fsa$nqbv$1@dont-email.me>,
ÿ Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 4/9/2026 7:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:Yes, I know.ÿ My father was a geophysicist.ÿ I am quite aware of the
On 4/8/2026 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse, of
course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it >>>>>>> holds
off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say 200 >>>>>>> years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be off. >>>>>>>
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which I >>>>>>> have been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
Considering that the Richter scale is logarithmic a scale 15
earthquake
just might actually do the impossible and sink the US West Coast into >>>>>> the Pacific.
A common misconception.
The pacific plate is travelling northwards, not westwards.
basics of plate tectonics.ÿ I used to "correct" people who thought that >>>> California would fall into the Pacific by telling them "No, its
everything EAST of the San Andreas that will fall into the Atlantic."
Somebody, decades ago, publised a short story where that happened. It
might had been in F&SF or Galaxy. I doubt that it was in Analog.
ÿÿÿÿÿNo that is unlikely more likely that the area East of the Sierra
Nevada range will sink into the Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico and the
Carribean.ÿ At least that is what I used
to tell people.ÿ More than likely the Pacific Ocean will submerge the
Central Valley of
California and the lowlands of the coastof Southern California.ÿ Then
with all that
weight of water over the Central Valley we may have Quakes.ÿ I won't
be here
then at least not in this format.
ÿÿÿÿÿAnd I think the story was in Fantasy and Science Fiction
Magazine. It was
long before so much fuss was made about climate change.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ bliss
I do recall a short story in which an area of the mid West sank,
re-creating the Western Interior Seaway that split North American
in the late Cretaceous.
pt
On 4/10/2026 10:01 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 4/10/2026 1:42 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
ÿÿÿÿÿAnd I think the story was in Fantasy and Science Fiction
Magazine. It was
long before so much fuss was made about climate change.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ bliss
I do recall a short story in which an area of the mid West sank,
re-creating the Western Interior Seaway that split North American
in the late Cretaceous.
pt
The long fabled Northwest Passage.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/10/2026 10:01 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 4/10/2026 1:42 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
ÿÿÿÿÿAnd I think the story was in Fantasy and Science Fiction
Magazine. It was
long before so much fuss was made about climate change.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ bliss
I do recall a short story in which an area of the mid West sank,
re-creating the Western Interior Seaway that split North American
in the late Cretaceous.
pt
The long fabled Northwest Passage.
Only if you're a thousand miles away. Nebraska isn't in the arctic.
Your geography seems to be as bad as your knowledge of history.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 4/10/2026 10:01 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 4/10/2026 1:42 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
ÿÿÿÿÿAnd I think the story was in Fantasy and Science Fiction
Magazine. It was
long before so much fuss was made about climate change.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ bliss
I do recall a short story in which an area of the mid West sank,
re-creating the Western Interior Seaway that split North American
in the late Cretaceous.
pt
The long fabled Northwest Passage.
Only if you're a thousand miles away. Nebraska isn't in the arctic.
Your geography seems to be as bad as your knowledge of history.
In article <robertaw-293CF4.22214509042026@news.individual.net>,
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
In article <10r9fsa$nqbv$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 4/9/2026 7:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:Yes, I know. My father was a geophysicist. I am quite aware of the
On 4/8/2026 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse, of
course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it holds >> >>> off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say 200
years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be off.
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which I
have been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
Considering that the Richter scale is logarithmic a scale 15 earthquake >> >> just might actually do the impossible and sink the US West Coast into >> >> the Pacific.
A common misconception.
The pacific plate is travelling northwards, not westwards.
basics of plate tectonics. I used to "correct" people who thought that >> California would fall into the Pacific by telling them "No, its
everything EAST of the San Andreas that will fall into the Atlantic."
Somebody, decades ago, publised a short story where that happened. It >might had been in F&SF or Galaxy. I doubt that it was in Analog.
Ben Bova, A Slight Miscalculation, I think.
On 4/10/2026 10:01 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:of
On 4/10/2026 1:42 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 4/9/26 22:21, Robert Woodward wrote:
In article <10r9fsa$nqbv$1@dont-email.me>,
? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 4/9/2026 7:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:
On 4/8/2026 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse,
course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it
200holds
off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say
off.years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be
I
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which
intohave been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
Considering that the Richter scale is logarithmic a scale 15
earthquake
just might actually do the impossible and sink the US West Coast
of theYes, I know.? My father was a geophysicist.? I am quite awarethe Pacific.
A common misconception.
The pacific plate is travelling northwards, not westwards.
thought thatbasics of plate tectonics.? I used to "correct" people who
Atlantic."California would fall into the Pacific by telling them "No, its
everything EAST of the San Andreas that will fall into the
It
Somebody, decades ago, publised a short story where that happened.
the Sierramight had been in F&SF or Galaxy. I doubt that it was in Analog.
?????No that is unlikely more likely that the area East of
theNevada range will sink into the Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico and the
Carribean.? At least that is what I used
to tell people.? More than likely the Pacific Ocean will submerge
ThenCentral Valley of
California and the lowlands of the coastof Southern California.?
won'twith all that
weight of water over the Central Valley we may have Quakes.? I
Fictionbe here
then at least not in this format.
?????And I think the story was in Fantasy and Science
Magazine. It was
long before so much fuss was made about climate change.
???????? bliss
I do recall a short story in which an area of the mid West sank,
re-creating the Western Interior Seaway that split North American
in the late Cretaceous.
pt
The long fabled Northwest Passage.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 15:20:01 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
On 4/10/2026 10:01 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 4/10/2026 1:42 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 4/9/26 22:21, Robert Woodward wrote:
In article <10r9fsa$nqbv$1@dont-email.me>,
ÿ Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
On 4/9/2026 7:52 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:Somebody, decades ago, publised a short story where that happened. It >>>>> might had been in F&SF or Galaxy. I doubt that it was in Analog.
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> writes:Yes, I know.ÿ My father was a geophysicist.ÿ I am quite aware of the >>>>>> basics of plate tectonics.ÿ I used to "correct" people who thought that >>>>>> California would fall into the Pacific by telling them "No, its
On 4/8/2026 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 09:51:31 -0700, Bobbie Sellers
The Big One is expected to be 8.7?9.2, which is a lot worse, of >>>>>>>>> course. The strengthened building might make it survivable if it >>>>>>>>> holds
off long enough for most current buildings to be replaced, say 200 >>>>>>>>> years.
Of course, if the Big One is, say, 15, then all bets will be off. >>>>>>>>>
(Yes, I am aware that the maximum Richter scale magnitude, which I >>>>>>>>> have been using above, is "10". Theoretically, at least.)
Considering that the Richter scale is logarithmic a scale 15
earthquake
just might actually do the impossible and sink the US West Coast into >>>>>>>> the Pacific.
A common misconception.
The pacific plate is travelling northwards, not westwards.
everything EAST of the San Andreas that will fall into the Atlantic." >>>>>
ÿÿÿÿÿNo that is unlikely more likely that the area East of the Sierra >>>> Nevada range will sink into the Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico and the
Carribean.ÿ At least that is what I used
to tell people.ÿ More than likely the Pacific Ocean will submerge the
Central Valley of
California and the lowlands of the coastof Southern California.ÿ Then
with all that
weight of water over the Central Valley we may have Quakes.ÿ I won't
be here
then at least not in this format.
ÿÿÿÿÿAnd I think the story was in Fantasy and Science Fiction
Magazine. It was
long before so much fuss was made about climate change.
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ bliss
I do recall a short story in which an area of the mid West sank,
re-creating the Western Interior Seaway that split North American
in the late Cretaceous.
pt
The long fabled Northwest Passage.
Which, with the melting of the Arctic ice, is finally appearing for
real.
Promoting, among other things, Artic fish species with both Pacific
and Atlantic branches to mingle and produce mixed offspring.
Israel doesn't really care about Iran; that is just a minor skirmish in their >territorial war. Their only concern about Iran is that Iran is supporting >Palestinian groups and they are supporting Hezbollah which supports them. >They don't want peace, they want Palestine. (I speak here of the current >Israeli government which may not be the Israeli government in a couple years). >--scott
One word for you, William. Just one word. Are you listening? Plastics.
Think about it.
--scott
Another word micro and nano particles of plastic in every bit of food.
Put it all back in the ground with lots of rock over it.
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