• Re: Found On BlueSky

    From Daniel Goldsmith@3:633/10 to All on Sat Apr 4 17:06:41 2026
    On 2026-03-29, Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 18:50:06 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    On 3/28/2026 6:11 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Sat, 28 Mar 2026 17:23:10 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    Didn?t your Government have to release some emergency reserves to
    keep things at that level? They can?t keep doing that indefinitely.

    Call me when the price hit $5.

    Stay tuned.

    It will take months to get those reserves out. And Biden sold off
    2/3rds of the reserves already.

    So it *would have* taken months to use up those reserves, if Biden
    hadn?t already got rid of most of them?

    National Average price (per the AAA) went above $4 on April 2.

    By today, April 4, it was already at $4.11.

    You can try to blame the last guy, but everyone knows *why* those prices
    at the pump are where they are, and it ain't coz he sold off the
    reserves.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Sat Apr 4 14:27:18 2026
    In article <10qrgf1$hfe$2@dgold.eu>, Daniel Goldsmith <news@dgold.eu> wrote: >National Average price (per the AAA) went above $4 on April 2.

    By today, April 4, it was already at $4.11.

    You can try to blame the last guy, but everyone knows *why* those prices
    at the pump are where they are, and it ain't coz he sold off the
    reserves.

    That's actually not bad, to be honest, and the supply is still here. I
    expect prices to rise a couple more dollars but I don't expect the kind
    of empty gas stations unable to get deliveries that we saw in the seventies
    and Thailand is seeing today.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 6 07:17:07 2026
    On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:27:18 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    ... I don't expect the kind of empty gas stations unable to get
    deliveries that we saw in the seventies and Thailand is seeing
    today.

    The manchild in the White House can?t seem to make up his mind,
    though: the other day he said he didn?t care about opening the Strait
    of Hormuz, let other countries worry about that, the USA can manage
    fine without it. Today he?s gone on a complete tantrum and is
    threatening to destroy all the power infrastructure and bridges in
    Iran if they don?t let the shipping through.

    Resorting to blackmail, in other words, since his military strikes
    don?t seem to be working.

    There are other things the US needs that go through that strait: like
    products made from petroleum, that the US cannot make for itself. One
    obvious one is fertilizer for the farms.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From James Nicoll@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 6 14:30:30 2026
    In article <10qvmli$1uf62$6@dont-email.me>,
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:27:18 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    ... I don't expect the kind of empty gas stations unable to get
    deliveries that we saw in the seventies and Thailand is seeing
    today.

    The manchild in the White House can?t seem to make up his mind,
    though: the other day he said he didn?t care about opening the Strait
    of Hormuz, let other countries worry about that, the USA can manage
    fine without it. Today he?s gone on a complete tantrum and is
    threatening to destroy all the power infrastructure and bridges in
    Iran if they don?t let the shipping through.

    Resorting to blackmail, in other words, since his military strikes
    don?t seem to be working.

    There are other things the US needs that go through that strait: like >products made from petroleum, that the US cannot make for itself. One
    obvious one is fertilizer for the farms.

    Food can't be that critical to Americans or Trump would not threaten
    to tariff Canadian potash. Probably a Holodomor-level famine would
    build character and help US parents sort their children in order of
    edibility.

    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 6 08:20:25 2026
    On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 07:17:07 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:27:18 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    ... I don't expect the kind of empty gas stations unable to get
    deliveries that we saw in the seventies and Thailand is seeing
    today.

    The manchild in the White House can?t seem to make up his mind,
    though: the other day he said he didn?t care about opening the Strait
    of Hormuz, let other countries worry about that, the USA can manage
    fine without it. Today he?s gone on a complete tantrum and is
    threatening to destroy all the power infrastructure and bridges in
    Iran if they don?t let the shipping through.

    As I have said, a petulant 5-year-old.

    Resorting to blackmail, in other words, since his military strikes
    don?t seem to be working.

    There are other things the US needs that go through that strait: like >products made from petroleum, that the US cannot make for itself. One
    obvious one is fertilizer for the farms.

    An article I saw a while back suggests that Iran will, indeed, let any
    nation's traffic through -- for an annual fee.

    IOW, Trump has provided them with a new source of income.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 6 15:53:50 2026
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:27:18 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    ... I don't expect the kind of empty gas stations unable to get
    deliveries that we saw in the seventies and Thailand is seeing
    today.

    The manchild in the White House can?t seem to make up his mind,
    though: the other day he said he didn?t care about opening the Strait
    of Hormuz, let other countries worry about that, the USA can manage
    fine without it. Today he?s gone on a complete tantrum and is
    threatening to destroy all the power infrastructure and bridges in
    Iran if they don?t let the shipping through.

    Resorting to blackmail, in other words, since his military strikes
    don?t seem to be working.

    There are other things the US needs that go through that strait: like products made from petroleum, that the US cannot make for itself. One
    obvious one is fertilizer for the farms.

    And, strangely enough, Aluminum.

    Trump put a tariff on Canadian aluminum, making it unaffordable, or
    nearly so, in the US. So they were buying their aluminum from the gulf region.


    It's just plain common sense to prefer to get your essential materials
    from a set of murderous dictatorships, many of whose citizens loathe
    you, rather than from a democratic ally.

    Any fool can see that it is unfair that we have abundant hydro power,
    so we can sell aluminum - largely made by US companies - to the US more cheaply that some domestic producers. How dare we!

    As a result Canada has entered into a deal with the EU which locks up
    much of our aluminum production for a decade.

    So with the strait closed, there's now an aluminum shortage, Europe has
    a secure supply from Canada, but the US is looking at high prices and shortages. True, they could buy more from Canada, but as above, there
    isn't as much available as there was in the distant days of 2024.

    No wonder Trump wants a fifty percent increase in the defense budget.
    He'll need more for aluminum alone. I wonder where they'll source it
    next. North Korea? Russia? Hell?

    I think this is isomorphic to several "I Love Lucy" sitcoms.


    William Hyde


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 6 18:02:38 2026
    On 4/6/2026 7:30 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <10qvmli$1uf62$6@dont-email.me>,
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:27:18 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    ... I don't expect the kind of empty gas stations unable to get
    deliveries that we saw in the seventies and Thailand is seeing
    today.

    The manchild in the White House can???t seem to make up his mind,
    though: the other day he said he didn???t care about opening the Strait
    of Hormuz, let other countries worry about that, the USA can manage
    fine without it. Today he???s gone on a complete tantrum and is
    threatening to destroy all the power infrastructure and bridges in
    Iran if they don???t let the shipping through.

    Resorting to blackmail, in other words, since his military strikes
    don???t seem to be working.

    There are other things the US needs that go through that strait: like
    products made from petroleum, that the US cannot make for itself. One
    obvious one is fertilizer for the farms.

    Food can't be that critical to Americans or Trump would not threaten
    to tariff Canadian potash.

    Only if you assume Trump is not senile and a megalomaniac.

    Probably a Holodomor-level famine would
    build character and help US parents sort their children in order of edibility.

    The recently enacted "improvements" to various social safety net
    programs like SNAP (aka Food Stamps) are already moving us towards that
    since he has stated that the only thing the Federal government should be
    doing is the military and the states should handle everything else.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 7 08:22:54 2026
    On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 18:02:38 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    On 4/6/2026 7:30 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <10qvmli$1uf62$6@dont-email.me>,
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:27:18 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    ... I don't expect the kind of empty gas stations unable to get
    deliveries that we saw in the seventies and Thailand is seeing
    today.

    The manchild in the White House can???t seem to make up his mind,
    though: the other day he said he didn???t care about opening the
    Strait
    of Hormuz, let other countries worry about that, the USA can manage
    fine without it. Today he???s gone on a complete tantrum and is
    threatening to destroy all the power infrastructure and bridges in
    Iran if they don???t let the shipping through.

    Resorting to blackmail, in other words, since his military strikes
    don???t seem to be working.

    There are other things the US needs that go through that strait: like
    products made from petroleum, that the US cannot make for itself. One
    obvious one is fertilizer for the farms.

    Food can't be that critical to Americans or Trump would not threaten
    to tariff Canadian potash.

    Only if you assume Trump is not senile and a megalomaniac.

    Probably a Holodomor-level famine would
    build character and help US parents sort their children in order of
    edibility.

    The recently enacted "improvements" to various social safety net
    programs like SNAP (aka Food Stamps) are already moving us towards that >since he has stated that the only thing the Federal government should be

    doing is the military and the states should handle everything else.

    I would point out that the reason the Feds got into this area at all
    was because something like 1 out of 6 young white men from the South
    being considered for the military by the Selective Service in WWII
    were /too underdeveloped to serve/ due to their diet growing up. IIRC, "rickets" were mentioned.

    This led to the RDA and other Federal dietary rules. Although SNAP may
    have come from other motivations, it was and it remains a fact that
    /if you want to have an Army in 18 years/ you have to /feed the kids
    properly today/.

    But there is no point in pointing that out, for Trump is immune to
    reality.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 7 08:25:38 2026
    On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 15:53:50 -0400, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 14:27:18 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    ... I don't expect the kind of empty gas stations unable to get
    deliveries that we saw in the seventies and Thailand is seeing
    today.

    The manchild in the White House can?t seem to make up his mind,
    though: the other day he said he didn?t care about opening the
    Strait
    of Hormuz, let other countries worry about that, the USA can manage
    fine without it. Today he?s gone on a complete tantrum and is
    threatening to destroy all the power infrastructure and bridges in
    Iran if they don?t let the shipping through.

    Resorting to blackmail, in other words, since his military strikes
    don?t seem to be working.

    There are other things the US needs that go through that strait: like
    products made from petroleum, that the US cannot make for itself. One
    obvious one is fertilizer for the farms.

    And, strangely enough, Aluminum.

    Trump put a tariff on Canadian aluminum, making it unaffordable, or
    nearly so, in the US. So they were buying their aluminum from the gulf >region.


    It's just plain common sense to prefer to get your essential materials
    from a set of murderous dictatorships, many of whose citizens loathe
    you, rather than from a democratic ally.

    Any fool can see that it is unfair that we have abundant hydro power,
    so we can sell aluminum - largely made by US companies - to the US more

    cheaply that some domestic producers. How dare we!

    As a result Canada has entered into a deal with the EU which locks up
    much of our aluminum production for a decade.

    So with the strait closed, there's now an aluminum shortage, Europe has
    a secure supply from Canada, but the US is looking at high prices and >shortages. True, they could buy more from Canada, but as above, there
    isn't as much available as there was in the distant days of 2024.

    No wonder Trump wants a fifty percent increase in the defense budget.
    He'll need more for aluminum alone. I wonder where they'll source it
    next. North Korea? Russia? Hell?

    I think this is isomorphic to several "I Love Lucy" sitcoms.

    An excellent illustration that stupidity is its own reward.

    As to the defence budget -- as long as it prohibits him to spend even
    a single penny of it attacking Iran and it is fully paid by tax
    increases on 1%-ers, I see no problem.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 7 15:02:37 2026
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    The recently enacted "improvements" to various social safety net
    programs like SNAP (aka Food Stamps) are already moving us towards that >since he has stated that the only thing the Federal government should be >doing is the military and the states should handle everything else.

    Indeed, the plan is to roll back to the Golden Age of the 1890s when
    most corporate legislation was done by states, and so consequently
    national corporations would just shop around. So what if the Pennsylvania Railway is not paying taxes for their operations in New York? They don't
    have to, because they are incorporated in Pennsylvania. So what if the Pennsylvania railway is polluting in Ohio? It doesn't matter because
    they are incorporated in Pennsylvania. Once the corporations got bigger than the states, they couldn't control them.

    Teddy Roosevelt did a marvelous job of moving those laws up to the Federal level, and it took fifty years for it to actually happen in some places,
    but it did.

    Now we have come to an era where corporations aren't just larger than the states, they are larger than nations, and it has become impossible for
    nations to control them.

    ObSF: Ironclads by Adrian Tchaikowsky.
    --scott



    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 7 13:11:45 2026


    On 4/7/26 12:02, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    The recently enacted "improvements" to various social safety net
    programs like SNAP (aka Food Stamps) are already moving us towards that
    since he has stated that the only thing the Federal government should be
    doing is the military and the states should handle everything else.

    Indeed, the plan is to roll back to the Golden Age of the 1890s when
    most corporate legislation was done by states, and so consequently
    national corporations would just shop around. So what if the Pennsylvania Railway is not paying taxes for their operations in New York? They don't have to, because they are incorporated in Pennsylvania. So what if the Pennsylvania railway is polluting in Ohio? It doesn't matter because
    they are incorporated in Pennsylvania. Once the corporations got bigger than the states, they couldn't control them.

    Teddy Roosevelt did a marvelous job of moving those laws up to the Federal level, and it took fifty years for it to actually happen in some places,
    but it did.

    Now we have come to an era where corporations aren't just larger than the states, they are larger than nations, and it has become impossible for nations to control them.

    ObSF: Ironclads by Adrian Tchaikowsky.
    --scott

    It is not impossible to control the corporations but the legislators whom they put into office have no desire to control them.

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 7 18:15:36 2026
    Paul S Person wrote:

    As to the defence budget -- as long as it prohibits him to spend even
    a single penny of it attacking Iran and it is fully paid by tax
    increases on 1%-ers, I see no problem.

    Iran has lost that new war smell.

    I think Yemen should be nervous.

    William Hyde


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 7 19:41:24 2026
    Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
    It is not impossible to control the corporations but the legislators
    whom they put into office have no desire to control them.

    That's only part of the problem. But look at a company like GE which has
    an enormous US presence but pays few US taxes. You'd think when the
    Panama Papers became public that people would start to stand up and take notice. Maybe I should incorporate in Aruba myself.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 7 19:43:15 2026
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    Paul S Person wrote:

    As to the defence budget -- as long as it prohibits him to spend even
    a single penny of it attacking Iran and it is fully paid by tax
    increases on 1%-ers, I see no problem.

    Iran has lost that new war smell.

    I think Yemen should be nervous.

    I think we should nuke.... <spins the spinner> France!
    Is that right?
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sn!pe@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 8 02:13:47 2026
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    [...]
    Iran has lost that new war smell.

    I think Yemen should be nervous.

    I think we should nuke.... <spins the spinner> France!
    Is that right?
    --scott

    Make sure that the wind is the North, please, then this Brit will be
    right behind you.

    --
    ^?^. Sn!pe, bird-brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 8 08:00:40 2026
    On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 19:41:24 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
    It is not impossible to control the corporations but the legislators >>whom they put into office have no desire to control them.

    That's only part of the problem. But look at a company like GE which
    has
    an enormous US presence but pays few US taxes. You'd think when the
    Panama Papers became public that people would start to stand up and take >notice. Maybe I should incorporate in Aruba myself.

    I seem to recall that an alternate taxing model exists to the one the
    USA is using designed to address the problem.

    But the /real/ problem is that, on the Federal level, the USA is a
    failed State.

    Something that is becoming clearer and clearer as time goes on.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 8 11:26:12 2026
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 19:41:24 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
    It is not impossible to control the corporations but the legislators >>>whom they put into office have no desire to control them.

    That's only part of the problem. But look at a company like GE which =
    has
    an enormous US presence but pays few US taxes. You'd think when the=20 >>Panama Papers became public that people would start to stand up and take >>notice. Maybe I should incorporate in Aruba myself.

    I seem to recall that an alternate taxing model exists to the one the
    USA is using designed to address the problem.

    But the /real/ problem is that, on the Federal level, the USA is a
    failed State.

    That's a complication. But the essential problem of national control over international corporations is much bigger than just the US.
    --scott


    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Sat Apr 11 16:23:48 2026
    On 09/04/2026 03:26, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 19:41:24 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
    It is not impossible to control the corporations but the legislators >>>> whom they put into office have no desire to control them.

    That's only part of the problem. But look at a company like GE which =
    has
    an enormous US presence but pays few US taxes. You'd think when the=20
    Panama Papers became public that people would start to stand up and take >>> notice. Maybe I should incorporate in Aruba myself.

    I seem to recall that an alternate taxing model exists to the one the
    USA is using designed to address the problem.

    But the /real/ problem is that, on the Federal level, the USA is a
    failed State.

    That's a complication. But the essential problem of national control over international corporations is much bigger than just the US.
    --scott

    Careless People by Sarah Wynn-Williams. Non fiction.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 15 22:42:29 2026
    On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 18:15:36 -0400, William Hyde wrote:

    Iran has lost that new war smell.

    I think Yemen should be nervous.

    Israel has been making saber-rattling-type noises towards Turkiye (or
    is that Trkiye?).

    Of course, that?s a NATO member. Maybe the attack will be timed neatly
    to come after the US?s final abandonment of NATO, so there won?t be an agreement for it to renege on when it doesn?t come to the aid of a
    NATO member.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 15 17:47:49 2026
    On 4/15/2026 3:42 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 18:15:36 -0400, William Hyde wrote:

    Iran has lost that new war smell.

    I think Yemen should be nervous.

    Israel has been making saber-rattling-type noises towards Turkiye (or
    is that Trkiye?).

    Other way 'round, Turkey has been saber-rattling at Israel.

    Of course, that?s a NATO member. Maybe the attack will be timed neatly
    to come after the US?s final abandonment of NATO, so there won?t be an agreement for it to renege on when it doesn?t come to the aid of a
    NATO member.


    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)