• (Tears) Earth Is Room Enough by Isaac Asimov

    From James Nicoll@3:633/10 to All on Sun Apr 5 13:21:12 2026
    Earth Is Room Enough by Isaac Asimov

    An assortment of science fiction stories set on Earth.

    https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/or-whats-a-heaven-for
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 6 02:05:35 2026
    On 4/5/2026 8:21 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Earth Is Room Enough by Isaac Asimov

    An assortment of science fiction stories set on Earth.

    https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/or-whats-a-heaven-for

    I read this book over 50 years ago and I still have the copy.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From quadi@3:633/10 to All on Fri Apr 10 05:30:43 2026
    On Sun, 05 Apr 2026 13:21:12 +0000, James Nicoll wrote:

    Earth Is Room Enough by Isaac Asimov

    I myself thought Franchise was quite a silly story. However, since the
    19th Amendment wasn't going anywhere, I simply assumed that Multivac would calculate how women, as well as men, would vote; it just happened that
    male voters were more informative for some reason.

    The Dead Past and Someday were my favorite stories in that collection.

    Incidentally, while your article has two footnotes, only a reference to
    the first appears in the article.

    I cannot agree with the second. The world *needs* the United States of America. Badly. It has currently abdicated its function, but this is a temporary condition which presumably will end at the time of the next Presidential election. If not by the mid-term elections, which is not
    entirely outside the realm of possibility (even though being too sure of
    that is still something that smacks of wishful thinking to me).

    John Savard

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Packer@3:633/10 to All on Fri Apr 10 07:27:31 2026
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 05:30:43 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    On Sun, 05 Apr 2026 13:21:12 +0000, James Nicoll wrote:

    Earth Is Room Enough by Isaac Asimov

    I myself thought Franchise was quite a silly story. However, since the
    19th Amendment wasn't going anywhere, I simply assumed that Multivac
    would calculate how women, as well as men, would vote; it just happened
    that male voters were more informative for some reason.

    The Dead Past and Someday were my favorite stories in that collection.

    Incidentally, while your article has two footnotes, only a reference to
    the first appears in the article.

    I cannot agree with the second. The world *needs* the United States of America. Badly. It has currently abdicated its function, but this is a temporary condition which presumably will end at the time of the next Presidential election. If not by the mid-term elections, which is not entirely outside the realm of possibility (even though being too sure of
    that is still something that smacks of wishful thinking to me).

    John Savard

    Think of the U.S. as having become temporarily a site-specific
    art installation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Site-specific_art

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Fri Apr 10 08:37:59 2026
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 05:30:43 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    The world *needs* the United States of America. Badly.

    At one time, it was thought that the world *needs* the Bitish Empire.
    Badly.

    And before that others would have felt the same about the Spanish. And
    before them, the Ottomans. And the Romans. And Alexander the Great.
    And so on and so on and so on.

    Empires come and go. The fact that there is no obvious single
    superpower to take the place of the USA is, on balance, a Good Thing.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri Apr 10 08:36:26 2026
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 05:30:43 -0000 (UTC), quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 05 Apr 2026 13:21:12 +0000, James Nicoll wrote:

    Earth Is Room Enough by Isaac Asimov

    I myself thought Franchise was quite a silly story. However, since the
    19th Amendment wasn't going anywhere, I simply assumed that Multivac
    would
    calculate how women, as well as men, would vote; it just happened that
    male voters were more informative for some reason.

    The Dead Past and Someday were my favorite stories in that collection.

    Incidentally, while your article has two footnotes, only a reference to
    the first appears in the article.

    I cannot agree with the second. The world *needs* the United States of >America. Badly. It has currently abdicated its function, but this is a >temporary condition which presumably will end at the time of the next >Presidential election. If not by the mid-term elections, which is not >entirely outside the realm of possibility (even though being too sure of

    that is still something that smacks of wishful thinking to me).

    I don't expect to see a recovery for some time.

    And, while I doubt that the Republicans can do anything to improve
    their position, the Democrats still have seven months to figure out
    how to lose the mid-terms. And they are good at that.

    Also, if the Democrats win the mid-terms, everything that goes wrong
    after that will be blamed on them because they are in charge. For the longer-run good of the country, it would be better to have the
    Republicans in charge through 2030 so the blame can be placed where it
    belongs and Trump will have the opportunity to foul things up so badly
    that no amount of Democratic Party effort -- no, not even unleasing
    Bernie and Hillary -- will keep them from winning in 2030.

    There's a lot of highy-biased nonsense out there on all sides. But one
    thing is sure: it would be a lot better for everyone if the
    /Republicans/ -- preferably staunch MAGA Republicans -- brought
    articles of impeachment against Trump -- and barred him from future
    public office as well as convicting him (with help from the
    Democrats).
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Fri Apr 10 15:15:52 2026
    On 4/10/2026 3:37 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 05:30:43 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    The world *needs* the United States of America. Badly.

    At one time, it was thought that the world *needs* the Bitish Empire.
    Badly.

    And before that others would have felt the same about the Spanish. And
    before them, the Ottomans. And the Romans. And Alexander the Great.
    And so on and so on and so on.

    Empires come and go. The fact that there is no obvious single
    superpower to take the place of the USA is, on balance, a Good Thing.

    It would be a death match between China and ... China.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Fri Apr 10 15:18:36 2026
    On 4/10/2026 10:36 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 05:30:43 -0000 (UTC), quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 05 Apr 2026 13:21:12 +0000, James Nicoll wrote:

    Earth Is Room Enough by Isaac Asimov

    I myself thought Franchise was quite a silly story. However, since the
    19th Amendment wasn't going anywhere, I simply assumed that Multivac would >> calculate how women, as well as men, would vote; it just happened that
    male voters were more informative for some reason.

    The Dead Past and Someday were my favorite stories in that collection.

    Incidentally, while your article has two footnotes, only a reference to
    the first appears in the article.

    I cannot agree with the second. The world *needs* the United States of
    America. Badly. It has currently abdicated its function, but this is a
    temporary condition which presumably will end at the time of the next
    Presidential election. If not by the mid-term elections, which is not
    entirely outside the realm of possibility (even though being too sure of
    that is still something that smacks of wishful thinking to me).

    I don't expect to see a recovery for some time.

    And, while I doubt that the Republicans can do anything to improve
    their position, the Democrats still have seven months to figure out
    how to lose the mid-terms. And they are good at that.

    Also, if the Democrats win the mid-terms, everything that goes wrong
    after that will be blamed on them because they are in charge. For the longer-run good of the country, it would be better to have the
    Republicans in charge through 2030 so the blame can be placed where it belongs and Trump will have the opportunity to foul things up so badly
    that no amount of Democratic Party effort -- no, not even unleasing
    Bernie and Hillary -- will keep them from winning in 2030.

    There's a lot of highy-biased nonsense out there on all sides. But one
    thing is sure: it would be a lot better for everyone if the
    /Republicans/ -- preferably staunch MAGA Republicans -- brought
    articles of impeachment against Trump -- and barred him from future
    public office as well as convicting him (with help from the
    Democrats).

    You know, the Repuglicans did that once to Richard Nixon. They will
    never do it again. The dumbrocrats modern day version of Jimmy Carter
    would be Newscum, or AOC "shudder", and everyone knows this.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Fri Apr 10 13:31:06 2026


    On 4/10/26 13:18, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 4/10/2026 10:36 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 05:30:43 -0000 (UTC), quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 05 Apr 2026 13:21:12 +0000, James Nicoll wrote:

    Earth Is Room Enough by Isaac Asimov

    I myself thought Franchise was quite a silly story. However, since the
    19th Amendment wasn't going anywhere, I simply assumed that Multivac
    would
    calculate how women, as well as men, would vote; it just happened that
    male voters were more informative for some reason.

    The Dead Past and Someday were my favorite stories in that collection.

    Incidentally, while your article has two footnotes, only a reference to
    the first appears in the article.

    I cannot agree with the second. The world *needs* the United States of
    America. Badly. It has currently abdicated its function, but this is a
    temporary condition which presumably will end at the time of the next
    Presidential election. If not by the mid-term elections, which is not
    entirely outside the realm of possibility (even though being too sure of >>> that is still something that smacks of wishful thinking to me).

    I don't expect to see a recovery for some time.

    And, while I doubt that the Republicans can do anything to improve
    their position, the Democrats still have seven months to figure out
    how to lose the mid-terms. And they are good at that.

    Also, if the Democrats win the mid-terms, everything that goes wrong
    after that will be blamed on them because they are in charge. For the
    longer-run good of the country, it would be better to have the
    Republicans in charge through 2030 so the blame can be placed where it
    belongs and Trump will have the opportunity to foul things up so badly
    that no amount of Democratic Party effort -- no, not even unleasing
    Bernie and Hillary -- will keep them from winning in 2030.

    There's a lot of highy-biased nonsense out there on all sides. But one
    thing is sure: it would be a lot better for everyone if the
    /Republicans/ -- preferably staunch MAGA Republicans -- brought
    articles of impeachment against Trump -- and barred him from future
    public office as well as convicting him (with help from the
    Democrats).

    You know, the Repuglicans did that once to Richard Nixon.ÿ They will
    never do it again.ÿ The dumbrocrats modern day version of Jimmy Carter
    would be Newscum, or AOC "shudder", and everyone knows this.

    Lynn


    Newsom is a long way from Jimmie Carter as look at his past connection to a right wing female. I would rather not have him for a president despite his good performance as a state governor. He has lapsed several times from proper conduct and is not so great on Fossil Fuels.

    There are at least two governors from the Mid-West and the East Coast that seem viable candidates.

    bliss


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nuno Silva@3:633/10 to All on Fri Apr 10 22:02:08 2026
    On 2026-04-10, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    On 4/10/2026 10:36 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 05:30:43 -0000 (UTC), quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 05 Apr 2026 13:21:12 +0000, James Nicoll wrote:

    Earth Is Room Enough by Isaac Asimov

    I myself thought Franchise was quite a silly story. However, since the
    19th Amendment wasn't going anywhere, I simply assumed that Multivac would >>> calculate how women, as well as men, would vote; it just happened that
    male voters were more informative for some reason.

    The Dead Past and Someday were my favorite stories in that collection.

    Incidentally, while your article has two footnotes, only a reference to
    the first appears in the article.

    I cannot agree with the second. The world *needs* the United States of
    America. Badly. It has currently abdicated its function, but this is a
    temporary condition which presumably will end at the time of the next
    Presidential election. If not by the mid-term elections, which is not
    entirely outside the realm of possibility (even though being too sure of >>> that is still something that smacks of wishful thinking to me).

    I don't expect to see a recovery for some time.

    And, while I doubt that the Republicans can do anything to improve
    their position, the Democrats still have seven months to figure out
    how to lose the mid-terms. And they are good at that.

    Also, if the Democrats win the mid-terms, everything that goes wrong
    after that will be blamed on them because they are in charge. For the
    longer-run good of the country, it would be better to have the
    Republicans in charge through 2030 so the blame can be placed where it
    belongs and Trump will have the opportunity to foul things up so badly
    that no amount of Democratic Party effort -- no, not even unleasing
    Bernie and Hillary -- will keep them from winning in 2030.

    There's a lot of highy-biased nonsense out there on all sides. But one
    thing is sure: it would be a lot better for everyone if the
    /Republicans/ -- preferably staunch MAGA Republicans -- brought
    articles of impeachment against Trump -- and barred him from future
    public office as well as convicting him (with help from the
    Democrats).

    You know, the Repuglicans did that once to Richard Nixon. They will
    never do it again. The dumbrocrats modern day version of Jimmy Carter
    would be Newscum, or AOC "shudder", and everyone knows this.

    Republicans once did refuse to do that to Nixon for long enough that his impeachment only became a certainty when the smoking gun tape was too
    much for them back then. Nowdays they'd probably just double down and
    continue refusing to impeach.

    By the time GOP members grew a spine to rein in Nixon, he resigned.


    It sure would be good if GOP itself handled Trump. But Democrats taking
    the lead sure is better than the alternative?

    --
    Nuno Silva

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Fri Apr 10 22:24:47 2026
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    On 4/10/2026 10:36 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

    There's a lot of highy-biased nonsense out there on all sides. But one
    thing is sure: it would be a lot better for everyone if the
    /Republicans/ -- preferably staunch MAGA Republicans -- brought
    articles of impeachment against Trump -- and barred him from future
    public office as well as convicting him (with help from the
    Democrats).

    You know, the Repuglicans did that once to Richard Nixon. They will
    never do it again. The dumbrocrats modern day version of Jimmy Carter
    would be Newscum, or AOC "shudder", and everyone knows this.

    Ah, name calling. That's very grown up of you.

    Nixon didn't get all he deserved, that's for sure. He should
    have been in jail, not pardoned.

    Your blind hatred and ignorance of history is broad and deep.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Fri Apr 10 19:17:38 2026
    quadi wrote:
    On Sun, 05 Apr 2026 13:21:12 +0000, James Nicoll wrote:

    Earth Is Room Enough by Isaac Asimov

    I myself thought Franchise was quite a silly story. However, since the
    19th Amendment wasn't going anywhere, I simply assumed that Multivac would calculate how women, as well as men, would vote; it just happened that
    male voters were more informative for some reason.

    The Dead Past and Someday were my favorite stories in that collection.

    Incidentally, while your article has two footnotes, only a reference to
    the first appears in the article.

    I cannot agree with the second. The world *needs* the United States of America.

    "If the Austro-Hungarian Empire did not exist, it would have been
    necessary to invent it."

    William Hyde



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sat Apr 11 08:09:31 2026
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 15:18:36 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 4/10/2026 10:36 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

    <snippo tips on how the Dems can lose in 2026>

    There's a lot of highy-biased nonsense out there on all sides. But one
    thing is sure: it would be a lot better for everyone if the
    /Republicans/ -- preferably staunch MAGA Republicans -- brought
    articles of impeachment against Trump -- and barred him from future
    public office as well as convicting him (with help from the
    Democrats).

    You know, the Repuglicans did that once to Richard Nixon. They will
    never do it again. The dumbrocrats modern day version of Jimmy Carter
    would be Newscum, or AOC "shudder", and everyone knows this.

    I remember that. I actually watched some of the sessions on TV, one of
    the few times I have used the TV for that purpose.

    But (as noted below) all they did was vote to impeach him. Whether,
    had he not resigned, the Senate would have convicted him and, if so,
    barred him from future public office is unknown.

    So, no, they didn't actually do what I suggested to Nixon. They didn't
    even get to the first step.

    Trump, OTOH, has been impeached how many times? With no discernable
    result?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From quadi@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 05:30:47 2026
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 15:15:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 4/10/2026 3:37 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Empires come and go. The fact that there is no obvious single
    superpower to take the place of the USA is, on balance, a Good Thing.

    It would be a death match between China and ... China.

    Without the United States, Taiwan really has no hope of successfully
    defending itself against a determined attack by the PRC.

    John Savard

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From quadi@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 05:46:16 2026
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 08:37:59 +0000, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Empires come and go. The fact that there is no obvious single superpower
    to take the place of the USA is, on balance, a Good Thing.

    There are two other countries, besides the United States, with strategic nuclear capabilities and significant conventional military capabilities as well. Russia and the People's Republic of China. Both are tyrannies with
    no objection to intimidation and aggression against other countries.

    It is a Bad Thing that there is no one around to stop them.

    The United States had been the defender of threatened small democracies,
    like South Korea, Taiwan, and Israel.

    It failed South Vietnam, and it failed Ukraine as well. On the other hand, Israel seems to have failed its allies in the Gaza Strip.

    Still, Trump is still supportive of Israel, and he seems to still
    recognize the PRC as an enemy. But by ending aid to Ukraine, and
    supporting Viktor Orban in Hungary, he is definitely on the wrong side of history in that conflict.

    Even before Trump, though, immediately after Crimea, the United States
    should have lined the borders of Ukraine with U.S. troops, so as to
    prevent what happened now - just as it had prevented a Soviet invasion of
    the German Federal Republic during the Cold War. Instead, it let Russia proceed with creating a _fait accompli_, making a decisive response potentially provocative.

    Did the United States forget what worked during the Cold War? That is the obvious conclusion. But there is another possible explanation.

    After all, the United States waited until Pearl Harbor to join the great
    war to save human civilization from Nazism. Yet, it fought Communism in
    Korea and Vietnam. Which is analogous to the United States sending its
    armed forces to battle Italy in Ethiopia, or to fight the Nazis in the
    Spanish Civil War.

    A possible reason for the different responses is suggested by such events
    as the Red Scare of the 1920s, and McCarthyism later.

    There are dictators in some foreign countries? So what? There have been dictatorial governments since the beginning of civilization. But a
    government with slogans like "Workers of the world unite! You have nothing
    to lose but your chains!" - well, _that's_ an existential threat to businessmen wealthy enough to make significant donations to political
    parties.

    So the U.S. lost interest in being the "world's policeman" as soon as the
    bad guys weren't on the left.

    What the world needs isn't an empire that bosses everyone else around. It needs free men to be stronger than the tyrants who would crush freedom.

    John Savard


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From quadi@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 05:55:45 2026
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 15:18:36 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    You know, the Repuglicans did that once to Richard Nixon. They will
    never do it again. The dumbrocrats modern day version of Jimmy Carter
    would be Newscum, or AOC "shudder", and everyone knows this.

    It took me a few moments to realize that what this means is that you think that Alexandria Occasio-Cortez and Gavin Newsom would be such disasters
    for the nation that the Republicans are wise to continue to stick with
    Trump.

    I'll admit that Alexandria Occasio-Cortez would not be my first choice for
    the next President of the United States, but worse than Trump?

    On the other hand, I'll definitely admit, unlike some of the more extreme Democrats, that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Un, and several others
    of that ilk definitely are worse than Trump, and by a good margin as well.
    So far. But with the antics of his ICE agents, to suspect that the clock
    is ticking towards the time when he might join their league... is not as insane as it no doubt seems to you.

    And it's not only Pete Hegseth, but several generals have been replaced as well. It may be getting late for the U.S. to be able to right its course.

    John Savard

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 06:07:03 2026
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 05:46:16 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    Russia and the People's Republic of China. Both are tyrannies with
    no objection to intimidation and aggression against other countries.

    It is a Bad Thing that there is no one around to stop them.

    The United States had been the defender of threatened small
    democracies, like South Korea, Taiwan, and Israel.

    South Korea was a UN-sanctioned operation. Israel is not.

    As for Taiwan ... where was the US when Hong Kong lost its autonomy?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 09:23:18 2026
    quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> wrote:
    There are dictators in some foreign countries? So what? There have been >dictatorial governments since the beginning of civilization. But a >government with slogans like "Workers of the world unite! You have nothing >to lose but your chains!" - well, _that's_ an existential threat to >businessmen wealthy enough to make significant donations to political >parties.

    Stalin realized this, which is where the whole "Communism in One Country"
    and the dissolution of the Comintern came from. It was in every way an attempt to make the Soviet Union more palatable for other nations to accept.

    So the U.S. lost interest in being the "world's policeman" as soon as the >bad guys weren't on the left.

    Not at all, we just picked "terrorism" and "drugs" as our reasons for it, rather than "communism." It changed in form, and there WAS a very brief
    time between the fall off the wall and 9-11 when we could feel calm and normal, but it never really went away.

    What the world needs isn't an empire that bosses everyone else around. It >needs free men to be stronger than the tyrants who would crush freedom.

    This is ostensibly what America has meant to promote, even if it has sadly never worked out that way.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 08:40:46 2026
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 05:55:45 -0000 (UTC), quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 15:18:36 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    On the other hand, I'll definitely admit, unlike some of the more
    extreme
    Democrats, that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Un, and several others

    of that ilk definitely are worse than Trump, and by a good margin as
    well.
    So far. But with the antics of his ICE agents, to suspect that the clock

    is ticking towards the time when he might join their league... is not as

    insane as it no doubt seems to you.

    They were/are worse because they were/are /competent leaders/.

    Trump's incompetence is holding him back. And I don't expect that to
    change.

    BTW, my core observation holds:
    attacking Iran resulted in his dominating the headlines for weeks
    announcing a cease-fire has resulted in his dominating the headlines
    now
    and the fact that what, if anything, the cease-fire means, is doing
    the same

    It's /all/ about dominating the headlines. Everything Trump does. None
    of it has any other motivation.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BCFD 36@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 10:47:04 2026
    On 4/12/26 23:07, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 05:46:16 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    Russia and the People's Republic of China. Both are tyrannies with
    no objection to intimidation and aggression against other countries.

    It is a Bad Thing that there is no one around to stop them.

    The United States had been the defender of threatened small
    democracies, like South Korea, Taiwan, and Israel.

    South Korea was a UN-sanctioned operation. Israel is not.

    As for Taiwan ... where was the US when Hong Kong lost its autonomy?

    If I remember correctly, Hong Kong was basically leased to the Brits for
    99 years. The lease was up and wasn't being renewed, so the Brits
    honored their contract and went home. Not really good for the people of
    Hong Kong, but the Brits acted honorably on the international stage. The current US regime has no such honor.

    --
    ----------------

    Dave Scruggs
    Senior Software Engineer - Lockheed Martin, et. al (mostly Retired)
    Captain - Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
    Board of Directors - Boulder Creek Fire Protection District (What was I thinking?)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From quadi@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 22:38:31 2026
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 06:07:03 +0000, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    As for Taiwan ... where was the US when Hong Kong lost its autonomy?

    Aside from expressing disapproval, the U.S. couldn't do anything practical without starting World War III.

    In 1997, a public statement from China noted, in effect, that the "one country, two systems" statement was not _of the essence_ of the handover agreement; the PRC had not agreed that Britain could take Hong Kong back
    if it didn't fulfill it.

    Without the New Territories, which Britain only leased from the PRC, Hong
    Kong was not viable, so Britain felt it had limited options.

    John Savard

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From quadi@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 22:42:14 2026
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 10:47:04 -0700, BCFD 36 wrote:

    Not really good for the people of
    Hong Kong, but the Brits acted honorably on the international stage.

    There is no honor in abandoning free people to tyranny, simply in order to abide by an agreement made with a tyrant.

    So if the PRC didn't have nukes, carrying out regime change there would
    have been entirely right and proper. It would have been good for the
    people of Tibet and the Uyghurs as well as the Chinese people.

    The 99 year lease which expired was only on the "New Territories", but
    without them, the rest of Hong Kong couldn't really have managed on its
    own. That, though, is just a detail.

    John Savard

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From quadi@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 22:49:13 2026
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 09:23:18 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> wrote:

    What the world needs isn't an empire that bosses everyone else around.
    It needs free men to be stronger than the tyrants who would crush
    freedom.

    This is ostensibly what America has meant to promote, even if it has
    sadly never worked out that way.

    I wouldn't say "never" without qualifying it, say with "completely". I
    think it's mostly worked out that way for much of U.S. history, despite
    many grievous faults and imperfections - even under Eisenhower, often
    cited as a "good" Republican, the U.S. overthrew Arbenz, plunging
    Guatemala into misery for decades, as just one example.

    The U.S. is even still performing its deterrent function to some extent
    under Trump, although given his threats against Canada and Greenland, I
    cannot be sure how long this will continue. My current advice for Canada
    is for it to obtain its very own strategic nuclear deterrent as soon as possible, so as to ensure its sovereignty and freedom regardless of what Trump's shifting moods may do.

    John Savard


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From quadi@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 23:02:34 2026
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 08:40:46 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:

    They were/are worse because they were/are /competent leaders/.

    Trump's incompetence is holding him back. And I don't expect that to
    change.

    His incompetence is a factor. And I can't impute much in the way of moral compunctions to him.

    But the United States still has a free press, and it apparently will have elections that are... free by historical standards, if not present-day
    ones. Although historically the Federal Government didn't do the work of
    the Ku Klux Klan for it.

    But they have come for the non-citizens.

    But it is possible to speak up without risking being sent to a death camp.

    The pattern does appear obvious. It does strongly appear as though the
    intent is indeed to turn the United States of America into a full-blown dictatorship. But doing so openly would spark a rebellion by a people who
    may be divided on many issues, but who still share a common love of
    liberty. So it has to look as though it's the liberals who want to take
    away the freedom of the conservatives - and that Trump is the guardian of their freedom. Not the enemy of everyone's freedom.

    There are rich donors behind Trump, and they're competent. Trump spread
    the stolen election lie, but I think January 6 could have been their idea. Since Vance once criticized Trump before joining him, I don't know if they trust Vance; they may have another choice for Trump's successor waiting in
    the wings. I can't guess, if so, who he is, or what he will look like. He could even look reasonable and moderate and still be dangerous.

    John Savard

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 20:18:29 2026
    On 4/13/2026 6:42 PM, quadi wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 10:47:04 -0700, BCFD 36 wrote:

    Not really good for the people of
    Hong Kong, but the Brits acted honorably on the international stage.

    There is no honor in abandoning free people to tyranny, simply in order to abide by an agreement made with a tyrant.

    So if the PRC didn't have nukes, carrying out regime change there would
    have been entirely right and proper. It would have been good for the
    people of Tibet and the Uyghurs as well as the Chinese people.

    The 99 year lease which expired was only on the "New Territories", but without them, the rest of Hong Kong couldn't really have managed on its
    own. That, though, is just a detail.

    John Savard

    John, you are by far the most hawkish person in this group. You're very
    willing to spill American blood, often on issues which don't affect us
    at all.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 14 15:54:19 2026
    On 14/04/2026 05:47, BCFD 36 wrote:
    On 4/12/26 23:07, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 05:46:16 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    Russia and the People's Republic of China. Both are tyrannies with
    no objection to intimidation and aggression against other countries.

    It is a Bad Thing that there is no one around to stop them.

    The United States had been the defender of threatened small
    democracies, like South Korea, Taiwan, and Israel.

    South Korea was a UN-sanctioned operation. Israel is not.

    As for Taiwan ... where was the US when Hong Kong lost its autonomy?

    If I remember correctly, Hong Kong was basically leased to the Brits for
    99 years.

    Britain invaded China when China tried to stop the British supplying
    drugs. As part of the peace deal, Britain seized Hong Kong for 99 years.
    Just like the US taking Guantanamo Bay from Spain/Cuba.

    The lease was up and wasn't being renewed, so the Brits
    honored their contract and went home. Not really good for the people of
    Hong Kong, but the Brits acted honorably on the international stage. The current US regime has no such honor.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 14 17:31:37 2026
    On 14/04/2026 10:42, quadi wrote:

    further proof of the wisdom behind your choice of nickname, Four Bricks
    in an Otherwise Empty Skull.

    The 99 year lease which expired was only on the "New Territories", but without them, the rest of Hong Kong couldn't really have managed on its
    own. That, though, is just a detail.

    And facts and details are again irrelevant to Fourbricks unwavering
    dedication to USA propaganda.

    John Savard


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 14 08:03:21 2026
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 09:23:18 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> wrote:

    So the U.S. lost interest in being the "world's policeman" as soon
    as the bad guys weren't on the left.

    Not at all, we just picked "terrorism" and "drugs" as our reasons
    for it, rather than "communism."

    Notice the drugs, in particular, are all coming from countries which
    receive a steady flood of smuggled weapons from the USA. The Americans
    insist on going into those countries to tell them how to run
    drug-enforcement operations, but will not accept any advice on how to
    put a stop to its own role as the source of the guns.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Gary R. Schmidt@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 14 23:18:47 2026
    On 13/04/2026 16:07, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 05:46:16 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    Russia and the People's Republic of China. Both are tyrannies with
    no objection to intimidation and aggression against other countries.

    It is a Bad Thing that there is no one around to stop them.

    The United States had been the defender of threatened small
    democracies, like South Korea, Taiwan, and Israel.

    South Korea was a UN-sanctioned operation. Israel is not.

    As for Taiwan ... where was the US when Hong Kong lost its autonomy?

    Autonomy? The lease ran out, that's all.

    And if you are stupid enough to believe that the PRC was going to let
    Honkers go it's merry way unrestrained I have this bridge to sell you...

    Cheers,
    Gary B-)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 14 06:36:32 2026
    On 4/13/2026 10:47 AM, BCFD 36 wrote:
    On 4/12/26 23:07, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 05:46:16 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    Russia and the People's Republic of China. Both are tyrannies with
    no objection to intimidation and aggression against other countries.

    It is a Bad Thing that there is no one around to stop them.

    The United States had been the defender of threatened small
    democracies, like South Korea, Taiwan, and Israel.

    South Korea was a UN-sanctioned operation. Israel is not.

    As for Taiwan ... where was the US when Hong Kong lost its autonomy?

    If I remember correctly, Hong Kong was basically leased to the Brits for
    99 years. The lease was up and wasn't being renewed, so the Brits
    honored their contract and went home. Not really good for the people of
    Hong Kong, but the Brits acted honorably on the international stage. The current US regime has no such honor.

    And the terms of the turnover included that Hong Kong would keep its
    local government and a large degree of autonomy.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 14 06:37:53 2026
    On 4/14/2026 1:03 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 09:23:18 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid> wrote:

    So the U.S. lost interest in being the "world's policeman" as soon
    as the bad guys weren't on the left.

    Not at all, we just picked "terrorism" and "drugs" as our reasons
    for it, rather than "communism."

    Notice the drugs, in particular, are all coming from countries which
    receive a steady flood of smuggled weapons from the USA. The Americans
    insist on going into those countries to tell them how to run
    drug-enforcement operations, but will not accept any advice on how to
    put a stop to its own role as the source of the guns.

    We like to export our 2nd Amendment....

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 14 08:17:03 2026
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 22:42:14 -0000 (UTC), quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 10:47:04 -0700, BCFD 36 wrote:

    Not really good for the people of
    Hong Kong, but the Brits acted honorably on the international stage.

    There is no honor in abandoning free people to tyranny, simply in order
    to
    abide by an agreement made with a tyrant.

    So if the PRC didn't have nukes, carrying out regime change there would
    have been entirely right and proper. It would have been good for the
    people of Tibet and the Uyghurs as well as the Chinese people.

    The 99 year lease which expired was only on the "New Territories", but >without them, the rest of Hong Kong couldn't really have managed on its
    own. That, though, is just a detail.

    Why, quadi, I have long known that you are wierd, but I never dreamed
    you were MAGA.

    And were the dreaded commies running China in 1900? Which is when a 99
    year lease ending in 1999 would have begun.

    Didn't think so.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 14 08:19:57 2026
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 10:47:04 -0700, BCFD 36 <bcfd36@cruzio.com> wrote:

    On 4/12/26 23:07, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 05:46:16 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    Russia and the People's Republic of China. Both are tyrannies with
    no objection to intimidation and aggression against other countries.

    It is a Bad Thing that there is no one around to stop them.

    The United States had been the defender of threatened small
    democracies, like South Korea, Taiwan, and Israel.

    South Korea was a UN-sanctioned operation. Israel is not.

    As for Taiwan ... where was the US when Hong Kong lost its autonomy?

    If I remember correctly, Hong Kong was basically leased to the Brits for

    99 years. The lease was up and wasn't being renewed, so the Brits
    honored their contract and went home. Not really good for the people of
    Hong Kong, but the Brits acted honorably on the international stage. The

    current US regime has no such honor.

    Something some people here do not recognize as a good thing.

    The last Republican President with a sense of honor was the elder
    Bush, who promised he would /not/ extend the liberation of Kuwait to
    remove Saddam from power -- and kept his word.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 14 08:20:48 2026
    On Tue, 14 Apr 2026 06:36:32 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    On 4/13/2026 10:47 AM, BCFD 36 wrote:
    On 4/12/26 23:07, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 05:46:16 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    Russia and the People's Republic of China. Both are tyrannies with
    no objection to intimidation and aggression against other countries.

    It is a Bad Thing that there is no one around to stop them.

    The United States had been the defender of threatened small
    democracies, like South Korea, Taiwan, and Israel.

    South Korea was a UN-sanctioned operation. Israel is not.

    As for Taiwan ... where was the US when Hong Kong lost its autonomy?

    If I remember correctly, Hong Kong was basically leased to the Brits
    for
    99 years. The lease was up and wasn't being renewed, so the Brits
    honored their contract and went home. Not really good for the people
    of
    Hong Kong, but the Brits acted honorably on the international stage.
    The
    current US regime has no such honor.

    And the terms of the turnover included that Hong Kong would keep its
    local government and a large degree of autonomy.

    Which they did ... for a while.

    Totalitarianism always reveals itself. It has no honor.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 14 12:06:52 2026


    On 4/14/26 08:17, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 22:42:14 -0000 (UTC), quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 10:47:04 -0700, BCFD 36 wrote:

    Not really good for the people of
    Hong Kong, but the Brits acted honorably on the international stage.

    There is no honor in abandoning free people to tyranny, simply in order to >> abide by an agreement made with a tyrant.

    So if the PRC didn't have nukes, carrying out regime change there would
    have been entirely right and proper. It would have been good for the
    people of Tibet and the Uyghurs as well as the Chinese people.

    The 99 year lease which expired was only on the "New Territories", but
    without them, the rest of Hong Kong couldn't really have managed on its
    own. That, though, is just a detail.

    Why, quadi, I have long known that you are wierd, but I never dreamed
    you were MAGA.

    And were the dreaded commies running China in 1900? Which is when a 99
    year lease ending in 1999 would have begun.

    Didn't think so.

    The lease would have been with the last Imperial Chinese Govenment.

    They were the same sort of Tyranny that the British Empire imposed on its colonies.

    Of course over the nets 50 years things would change. China was finally industrialising in a painful way over the next 44 years.
    Then when the Lease ran out a fresh regime had taken over.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 14 17:15:15 2026
    On 4/14/2026 8:20 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Apr 2026 06:36:32 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    On 4/13/2026 10:47 AM, BCFD 36 wrote:
    On 4/12/26 23:07, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 05:46:16 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    Russia and the People's Republic of China. Both are tyrannies with
    no objection to intimidation and aggression against other countries. >>>>>
    It is a Bad Thing that there is no one around to stop them.

    The United States had been the defender of threatened small
    democracies, like South Korea, Taiwan, and Israel.

    South Korea was a UN-sanctioned operation. Israel is not.

    As for Taiwan ... where was the US when Hong Kong lost its autonomy?

    If I remember correctly, Hong Kong was basically leased to the Brits for >>> 99 years. The lease was up and wasn't being renewed, so the Brits
    honored their contract and went home. Not really good for the people of
    Hong Kong, but the Brits acted honorably on the international stage. The >>> current US regime has no such honor.

    And the terms of the turnover included that Hong Kong would keep its
    local government and a large degree of autonomy.

    Which they did ... for a while.

    Totalitarianism always reveals itself. It has no honor.

    Ya, everyone knew China would crack down. Hence the UK welcoming as
    many fleeing as they could. The only questions were how quickly and
    violently the crack down would be.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 14 20:48:42 2026
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
    Ya, everyone knew China would crack down. Hence the UK welcoming as
    many fleeing as they could. The only questions were how quickly and >violently the crack down would be.

    The UK was not so welcoming at first, and was issuing "Overseas British" passports that would allow Hong Kong residents to live in a lot of other Commonwealth countries but not Britain. All of the rich Chinese people
    in Hong Kong moved to Vancouver. Later on the British became a bit more
    open.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 15 03:26:07 2026
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 23:02:34 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    But the United States still has a free press ...

    Other countries do it better. There is too much self-censorship in
    American media.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 15 03:28:09 2026
    On Tue, 14 Apr 2026 06:37:53 -0700, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

    On 4/14/2026 1:03 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Notice the drugs, in particular, are all coming from countries
    which receive a steady flood of smuggled weapons from the USA. The
    Americans insist on going into those countries to tell them how to
    run drug-enforcement operations, but will not accept any advice on
    how to put a stop to its own role as the source of the guns.

    We like to export our 2nd Amendment....

    Killing your children is your own affair. But looking the other way
    while weapons are illegally crossing your borders means you are no
    longer being a good neighbour to those around you who didn?t ask for
    this.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 15 08:31:02 2026
    On Tue, 14 Apr 2026 12:06:52 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:



    On 4/14/26 08:17, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 22:42:14 -0000 (UTC), quadi <quadibloc@ca.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 10:47:04 -0700, BCFD 36 wrote:

    Not really good for the people of
    Hong Kong, but the Brits acted honorably on the international stage.

    There is no honor in abandoning free people to tyranny, simply in
    order to
    abide by an agreement made with a tyrant.

    So if the PRC didn't have nukes, carrying out regime change there
    would
    have been entirely right and proper. It would have been good for the
    people of Tibet and the Uyghurs as well as the Chinese people.

    The 99 year lease which expired was only on the "New Territories",
    but
    without them, the rest of Hong Kong couldn't really have managed on
    its
    own. That, though, is just a detail.

    Why, quadi, I have long known that you are wierd, but I never dreamed
    you were MAGA.

    And were the dreaded commies running China in 1900? Which is when a 99
    year lease ending in 1999 would have begun.

    Didn't think so.

    The lease would have been with the last Imperial Chinese Govenment.

    They were the same sort of Tyranny that the British Empire imposed on
    its colonies.

    Of course over the nets 50 years things would change. China was finally
    industrialising in a painful way over the next 44 years.
    Then when the Lease ran out a fresh regime had taken over.

    Thank you for confirming that the lease was /not/ with the Commies.
    Well, not originally, anyway.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 15 08:32:50 2026
    On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:28:09 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Tue, 14 Apr 2026 06:37:53 -0700, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

    On 4/14/2026 1:03 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Notice the drugs, in particular, are all coming from countries
    which receive a steady flood of smuggled weapons from the USA. The
    Americans insist on going into those countries to tell them how to
    run drug-enforcement operations, but will not accept any advice on
    how to put a stop to its own role as the source of the guns.

    We like to export our 2nd Amendment....

    Killing your children is your own affair. But looking the other way
    while weapons are illegally crossing your borders means you are no
    longer being a good neighbour to those around you who didn?t ask for
    this.

    If we wanted to be good neighbors, we wouldn't have a Good Neighbor
    Policy, we would just /be good neighbors/.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 15 08:33:20 2026
    On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 03:26:07 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Mon, 13 Apr 2026 23:02:34 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    But the United States still has a free press ...

    Other countries do it better. There is too much self-censorship in
    American media.

    On all sides? IOW, taken as a whole?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 15 17:53:42 2026
    On 4/13/2026 12:30 AM, quadi wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 15:15:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 4/10/2026 3:37 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Empires come and go. The fact that there is no obvious single
    superpower to take the place of the USA is, on balance, a Good Thing.

    It would be a death match between China and ... China.

    Without the United States, Taiwan really has no hope of successfully defending itself against a determined attack by the PRC.

    John Savard

    There is more than one mainland China. To think that mainland China is
    a unified society is naive. Many people in China are not happy with the communist party running everything. Will they ever rise up, who knows ?

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 15 23:23:53 2026
    On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 17:53:42 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    There is more than one mainland China. To think that mainland China
    is a unified society is naive.

    It?s been a unified nation for longer than any other surviving society
    on Earth.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 15 20:16:39 2026
    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 17:53:42 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    There is more than one mainland China. To think that mainland China
    is a unified society is naive.

    It's been a unified nation for longer than any other surviving society
    on Earth.

    Well, the Han parts have been. The rest of it has not really been
    well integrated in although they get more (forcibly) integrated every day. --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 15 17:50:59 2026
    On 4/15/2026 3:53 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 4/13/2026 12:30 AM, quadi wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 15:15:52 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 4/10/2026 3:37 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Empires come and go. The fact that there is no obvious single
    superpower to take the place of the USA is, on balance, a Good Thing.

    It would be a death match between China and ... China.

    Without the United States, Taiwan really has no hope of successfully
    defending itself against a determined attack by the PRC.

    John Savard

    There is more than one mainland China.ÿ To think that mainland China is
    a unified society is naive.ÿ Many people in China are not happy with the communist party running everything.ÿ Will they ever rise up, who knows ?

    Last time they did it was called Tiananmen Square...

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 16 13:30:53 2026
    On 4/15/2026 7:23 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 17:53:42 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    There is more than one mainland China. To think that mainland China
    is a unified society is naive.

    It?s been a unified nation for longer than any other surviving society
    on Earth.

    No, it hasn't.

    Its been unified and broken up again several times.

    The most recent reunification was in 1949, and that's still
    incomplete.

    Since the initial unification in 220 BC, we've had:

    Three Kingdoms period: 220 AD - 280 AD

    16 Kingdoms: 304 - 439

    Northern & Southern Kingdoms: 420 - 589

    Five Dynasties and 10 Kingdoms 907 - 960

    Taiping Rebellion 1851 - 1864

    Chinese Civil War 1927 - 1949 (arguably still ongoing)

    pt



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 16 15:24:16 2026
    On 4/16/2026 12:30 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 4/15/2026 7:23 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 17:53:42 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    There is more than one mainland China. To think that mainland China
    is a unified society is naive.

    It?s been a unified nation for longer than any other surviving society
    on Earth.

    No, it hasn't.

    Its been unified and broken up again several times.

    The most recent reunification was in 1949, and that's still
    incomplete.

    Since the initial unification in 220 BC, we've had:

    Three Kingdoms period: 220 AD - 280 AD

    16 Kingdoms: 304 - 439

    Northern & Southern Kingdoms: 420 - 589

    Five Dynasties and 10 Kingdoms 907 - 960

    Taiping Rebellion 1851 - 1864

    Chinese Civil War 1927 - 1949 (arguably still ongoing)

    pt

    This is what I was referring to. A small island off the mainland of
    China of mostly mainlanders that are continuously threatened with forced reunification and/or extinction.

    I also wonder how many of the Tiananmen Square protestors are still alive.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 16 23:26:10 2026
    On Thu, 16 Apr 2026 13:30:53 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 4/15/2026 7:23 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Wed, 15 Apr 2026 17:53:42 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    There is more than one mainland China. To think that mainland
    China is a unified society is naive.

    It?s been a unified nation for longer than any other surviving
    society on Earth.

    No, it hasn't.

    Its been unified and broken up again several times.

    That?s still longer than any other surviving society on Earth.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)