• Re: [long]Hidden dimensions could explain where mass comes from

    From quadi@3:633/10 to All on Sun Apr 12 00:21:18 2026
    On Thu, 08 Jan 2026 08:54:11 -0800, Paul S Person wrote:

    When the Higgs boson was found, it is my understanding that a whole lot theories died because it contradicted their predictions. Thus, science marches on with the survivors.

    Didn't they just find a particle that had about the right mass to
    correspond with the mass the theories about the Higgs boson said it ought
    to have? Well, no doubt they also knew it was actually a boson.

    But as far as that particle actually taking part in the interaction that
    leads to massive particles existing... surely nobody has really found
    proof, or even much in the way of evidence, for that, aside from it having
    the right mass?

    Which means that the putative Higgs boson could be just another particle,
    and all the competing theories of where mass came from, even if out of the spotlight, are still very much alive.

    John Savard


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  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Sun Apr 12 06:44:23 2026
    On Sun, 12 Apr 2026 00:21:18 -0000 (UTC), quadi wrote:

    Didn't they just find a particle that had about the right mass to
    correspond with the mass the theories about the Higgs boson said it ought
    to have?

    Bit more than that: it also had the predicted even parity and zero spin.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Higgs_boson#Search_and_discovery>

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  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Sun Apr 12 23:52:46 2026
    On 12 Apr 2026 14:38:14 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

    Only about 1-9% of the mass of everyday objects comes from the Higgs
    field. The remaining ~91-99% comes from the energy of the strong
    nuclear force (quantum chromodynamics, or QCD) that binds quarks
    together inside protons and neutrons.

    I think quarks actually have more mass than the particles they make
    up.

    Why are there no free quarks? Why are they always bound into
    multiquark particles? Because the force between them is so strong, the
    energy you put in trying to pull them apart creates more quarks, which
    means you just end up with more multiquark particles, and no free
    quarks.

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  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Mon Apr 13 09:02:38 2026
    On Sun, 12 Apr 2026 23:52:46 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On 12 Apr 2026 14:38:14 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

    Only about 1-9% of the mass of everyday objects comes from the Higgs
    field. The remaining ~91-99% comes from the energy of the strong
    nuclear force (quantum chromodynamics, or QCD) that binds quarks
    together inside protons and neutrons.

    I think quarks actually have more mass than the particles they make
    up.

    Why are there no free quarks? Why are they always bound into
    multiquark particles? Because the force between them is so strong, the
    energy you put in trying to pull them apart creates more quarks, which
    means you just end up with more multiquark particles, and no free
    quarks.

    This eventually has some interesting thoughts about quarks: <https://www.sciencenews.org/article/particle-collider-shuts-down-brookha

    search for "quark-gluon plasma" and you will find this:

    But in a scientific shocker, the state of matter RHIC found was not a
    gas of free-floating quarks and gluons, as scientists expected the
    quark-gluon plasma to be. Instead, the quarks and gluons interacted
    with one another as in a liquid. In fact, RHIC revealed, the
    quark-gluon plasma is a near-perfect liquid, meaning that it has
    vanishingly small viscosity and can flow with almost no resistance.
    ?It has a very distinct persona,? Deshpande says. ?It likes to
    flow.?

    Note that these are quarks and gluons /outside/ the proton.

    and the there is "color glass condensate", which the replacement to
    the Brookhaven collider will explore:

    When studied at low energies, protons appear as simple, three-quark
    objects. At higher energies, the sea of transient quarks and
    antiquarks comes into play. At the highest energies, like those at
    RHIC and eventually the Electron-Ion Collider, scientists believe the
    proton becomes clogged with multitudes of gluons, making a dense wall
    called a color glass condensate.

    and then there is this:

    Perhaps the weirdest thing about the color glass condensate is that
    when the gluons condense into these globs, they somehow shake off
    their quantum nature. ?You think of the stuff inside a proton as being
    this intensely quantum mechanical stuff, right? All these quarks and
    gluons kind of fluctuating around,? Venugopalan says. But, he says,
    the ?globs of glue? that make up the color glass condensate behave
    like classical, not quantum, objects. That means studying the color
    glass condensate could also help scientists study where the boundary
    lies between the quantum world and the classical world, another major
    quandary of physics.

    which I presume is based on math, since the color glass condensate has
    yet to be produced.

    That's wierder that usual for quantum mechanics: at a certain energy
    level, the proton is made up, not of quarks and gluons, but of things
    that act like condensate matter.

    And some people think that it really /isn't/ "turtles all the way
    down" -- that is, they thing that exploring such items as the
    structure of the proton will eventually produce a complete
    understanding with no lower levels to explore.

    Note: as I am a subscriber, even though I was able to access the
    article without signing in, there is no guarantee that non-subscribers
    can do so (this depends on the article).
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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