• Re: L. Ron Hubbard said you don't get rich writing sci-fi

    From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 08:37:25 2026
    On 8/5/26 05:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots.
    People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal
    hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. If you
    read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much like
    what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an
    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come down.
    When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're doing. Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is
    only one of those gods.


    But YHWH is the God of Storms a Zeus.Jupiter equivalent and t
    ake a look at the Universe and it is full of storm-like activity.
    Not that I think it is more than coincidence.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 11:44:52 2026
    On 8/5/2026 1:51 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 8/5/2026 12:22 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    Who has?

    Are you including fantasy?

    J. K. Rowling
    Stephen King
    Robert Heinlein
    David Weber
    John Ringo
    Jerry Pournelle
    Larry Niven

    Lynn

    Niven, at least, was rich to start with. His
    family comes from California oil money.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 08:50:07 2026
    On 8/5/26 06:39, Blueshirt wrote:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all
    any of them are... made-up money making machines to part
    fools from their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit
    up.

    I don't know about that.

    Deffo!

    The old religions probably had deeper roots.

    Old or new, all made up and believed in by delusional people
    with nothing better to do with their time.

    People have hypothesized everything from fertility
    cults to archetypal hero worship to hallucinations, but surely
    it was based on something. Why else would anyone else even
    believe anything as superficially unlikely?

    The problem is people all over the world believe in a swathe of
    different gods. They can't all be real, can they? So by
    definition some of those religions have to be wrong... at least.
    So who gets to decide who worships the real god(s) and who are
    the fools worshipping fake gods?

    Well why not multiple Gods? Humans invented specialized roles
    for workers as soon as they had enough language to

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years, by
    many different people... then translated, mistranslated,
    revised, translated again to another different language, edited
    by church elders (with agendas), tidied up by scholars, revised
    again with improved translations and now in 2026 are nothing
    more than fantasy tales for the simple folk to believe in.

    Actually before writing they were passed down orally. That
    led to forgetting important details like the fact that most of the
    patriarchs have the names of women. Judaism was originally a
    matriarchal religion as shown in the rule that Only a Jewish
    woman can birth Jewish men. The rite of circumcision which
    was Egyptian as well is meant to match the menstrual flow
    in magical power.



    Maybe, the original idea was to give people some good ideals to
    live their lives by, but ultimately religion is a crutch for
    weak minded people to get through life. I mean, look at Dave,
    he's hardly a good advert for Christianity is he? It does seem
    to be a profitable industry though, it must be said.

    Look at the rules and you will see that it was meant to enrich
    the priestly families the cohens and the levites. When they sacrificed
    an animal the god only got the skin bones and fat burned. The high
    protein part went to the people who slaughtered the animal.


    Religion also seems to be a good reason for people who preach
    peace to go around killing one another...

    Oh it is all about real estate and God is dragged into it for
    the foolish soldiers who kill each other.

    WW I "Gott Mit Uns"

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 11:52:46 2026
    On 8/5/2026 6:32 AM, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <114uj1t$2nlju$1@dont-email.me>, did Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> deliver unto us this message:

    On 8/5/2026 12:22 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    Who has?

    Are you including fantasy?

    Robert Heinlein

    You'd put Robert Heinlein in the fantasy column? Interesting. He seems squarely science fiction to me.


    He did both.

    Lost Legacy.
    Magic Inc.
    A lot of Glory Road

    I'm sure there are more.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 08:54:20 2026
    On 8/5/26 07:44, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <xn0pt5wgdd02vtn002@post.eweka.nl>,
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all
    any of them are... made-up money making machines to part
    fools from their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit
    up.

    I don't know about that.

    Deffo!

    The old religions probably had deeper roots.

    Old or new, all made up and believed in by delusional people
    with nothing better to do with their time.

    Atheists are highly delusional and unstable.


    I am a agnostic Deist and I want to know where under
    the Sun you have a reference to prove that is not a religious
    statement by fundamentalists of some deistic religion.


    Pagan influence.

    Countryman influence.

    bliss - by experience and study

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 17:01:28 2026
    On 05/08/2026 11:33, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <114uo80$2p8k4$1@dont-email.me>, did Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> deliver unto us this message:

    On 8/5/2026 12:22 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote:

    L. Ron Hubbard said you don't get rich writing sci-fi

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the ridiculous
    Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something? Then it
    proved lucrative, and here we are.

    That's the vague version I heard, at least. I never heard details or saw evidence.


    It was derived from a science fiction novel which he wrote after which
    he and his publisher used ideas from that to come up with Dianetics
    which after it went bankrupt Hubbard decided to come up with Scientology
    as a derivative of it but copyright all of the literature and its
    derivative works and licence this alternative to psychiatry to others
    who wanted to practice it for a fee.

    When it went foul of US laws which required medical claims to be scientifically proven after all the psychiatrists complained it was
    taking away all of their business, Hubbard turned it into a religion
    because as a religion its medical claims about mental health did not
    need any scientific proof since religion is based on faith. As an added benefit religious organisations were regarded as charities and didn't
    have to pay most taxes so Scientology made a huge profit and Hubbard was
    then chased around the world by the IRS for alleged tax evasion and died
    a fugitive.

    All the stuff about aliens visiting Earth in the past had to be inserted
    into the teaching material for the benefit of the authorities so as to
    justify calling it a religion.

    So basically Scientology flourished thanks to the US authorities trying
    to outlaw it

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 09:02:42 2026
    On 8/5/26 03:32, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <114uj1t$2nlju$1@dont-email.me>, did Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> deliver unto us this message:

    On 8/5/2026 12:22 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    Who has?

    Are you including fantasy?

    Robert Heinlein

    You'd put Robert Heinlein in the fantasy column? Interesting. He seems squarely science fiction to me.

    Heinlen's work was sold to Sci-Fiction magazines but a lot of
    it is clearly Fantasy unless Lazarus Long will please check in?

    In his youth science had not yet discovered its limits to
    travel, nor to life so he could write convincingly about things
    we now find impossible. But we believed in lots of things since
    revealed to be unlikely such as the idea that America was always
    doing the right thing, that voters could pick the best man for
    whatever elected position and that what was good for General Motors
    was good for the USA.





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 12:04:32 2026
    Verily, in article <114vlbl$33ot8$3@dont-email.me>, did BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> deliver unto us this message:

    On 8/5/26 05:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots. People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal
    hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. If you read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much like what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an
    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come down. When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're doing. Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is
    only one of those gods.


    But YHWH is the God of Storms a Zeus.Jupiter equivalent and t
    ake a look at the Universe and it is full of storm-like activity.
    Not that I think it is more than coincidence.

    He began as a god of volcanoes, though. He became god of storms when he crowded out Baal.

    This is a great video which examines the Bible and concludes that Yahweh
    was originally envisoned as a dragon, not a human.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XogaHpV5oUs

    That certainly has some interesting ties to Gnostic thinking.

    There's probably a better newsgroup for this.

    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 09:13:24 2026
    On 8/5/26 09:04, The True Melissa wrote:
    as a tagThe meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.

    The meek formerly did inherit the Earth
    each got a 6X6X3 plot but these days
    such space is expensive so we will have
    to settle for a jar for our ashes.

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 18:25:40 2026
    On 05/08/2026 16:50, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 06:39, Blueshirt wrote:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all
    any of them are... made-up money making machines to part
    fools from their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit
    up.

    I don't know about that.

    Deffo!

    The old religions probably had deeper roots.

    Old or new, all made up and believed in by delusional people
    with nothing better to do with their time.

    People have hypothesized everything from fertility
    cults to archetypal hero worship to hallucinations, but surely
    it was based on something.˙ Why else would anyone else even
    believe anything as superficially unlikely?

    The problem is people all over the world believe in a swathe of
    different gods. They can't all be real, can they? So by
    definition some of those religions have to be wrong... at least.
    So who gets to decide who worships the real god(s) and who are
    the fools worshipping fake gods?

    ˙˙˙˙Well why not multiple Gods? Humans invented specialized roles
    for workers as soon as they had enough language to

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years, by
    many different people... then translated, mistranslated,
    revised, translated again to another different language, edited
    by church elders (with agendas), tidied up by scholars, revised
    again with improved translations and now in 2026 are nothing
    more than fantasy tales for the simple folk to believe in.

    ˙˙˙˙Actually before writing they were passed down orally. That

    That is PURE BOLLOCKS!

    Even Parry himself, the inventor of this stupid nonsense of "oral
    traditions" said in his papers that the oral poets WROTE EVERYTHING DOWN
    after they had composed it, otherwise how could they possibly remember
    any of it? How could Parry even verify the it was a "tradition"
    otherwise? He even concluded at the start of his doctoral thesis that he wouldn't possible do so, it was all speculation.

    NO ONE can possibly compose, not one, but two poems consisting of 15,000
    and 12,000 verses of hexameter each in a dialect NO ONE spoke 400 years
    later at the time of Herodotus who spoke the closest living descendent
    of Homeric Greek, without the use of writing, let alone have passed it
    on in that now extinct dialect. PERIOD! Even Parry accepted from the
    very beginning that the Iliad and the Odyssey were written down and that
    is why they remained unchained for 400 years even until the time of
    Herodotus who was able to verify the age of these works by comparing
    them with literature which came after them which could be precisely
    dated and whose dialects were clearly older than that of Herodotus but
    more recent than Homer. Parry himself stated that oral poetry must
    necessarily undergo substantial change by every oral poet who acquires
    it and retells it in his own way. Parry stated that this poetry was
    passed down IN WRITING not orally, was then changed during performance
    and then written down immediately afterwards. WRITTEN DOWN!

    Parry's only substantiated claim was that oral poets used stock phrases
    in their composition. And how did Parry substantiate this? Because those
    stock phrases had already been written down in writing beforehand,
    before they were learned by the oral poets. To Parry who invented this BULLSHIT, oral tradition emerged from an existing written tradition
    through corruption of the original literature and the creation of new literature.

    There is NO SUCH THING as Oral Tradition. What parry was writing about
    was Composition Through Oral Performance, which he admitted could not
    even be proven to be a tradition and which was facilitated by the use of writing.

    Homer's works were composed in writing. They could not have been
    composed otherwise let alone transmitted in a dialect no one else spoke.
    Some stock phrases were repeated over and over again because they were
    derived from earlier WRITTEN material containing earlier poetry which
    Parry and no one can verify contained those phrases because those texts
    were not longer extant even in the time of Herodotus.

    The ancient Greeks possessed writing since 1900 BC in the from of Linear Syllabic script which was in constant use and never died out until 300
    BC when Cypriot Syllabic was completely replaced with the regular Greek Alphabet.

    In mainland Greece the alphabet was brought to Greece by the
    Greek-Phoenician king Cadmus in 1430 BC (given in the Chronicon as an
    EXACT date that was never disputed) who founded Thebes. According to
    Pliny, by 1200 BC just before the Trojan War was fought the Alphabet has spread throughout most of the Greek world and was used for writing the
    Greek language. Archaeology PROVES this dating to be accurate beyond
    dispute since at least 5 derivative scripts, the earliest examples of
    which date to 800-700 BC, were used to write different delicts of Greek
    on the mainland, the Greek islands, the Greek colonies in Asia-Minor and
    in Italy. Mathematical regression PROVES that the adoption of the Greek Alphabet was no later than 1200 BC, before these migrations occurred. Mathematical regression also PROVES that Homeric Greek (Epic Ionic)
    dates to no later than 800 BC.

    Even the epic of Gilgamesh uses repeated stock phrases and paragraphs,
    and we KNOW that that was composed in writing 5000 years ago and these
    is no disputing this. The use of repetition is the primary reason why
    the text was able to be reconstructed from 3200 year-old or older clay
    tablets where half of the text had decayed, so Parry was wrong again
    even concerning repetition. Repetition isn't evidence of oral
    composition. It's evidence of WRITTEN composition which require its use
    as an error correction mechanism to preserve the work on perishable
    materials.
    led to forgetting important details like the fact that most of the patriarchs have the names of women. Judaism was originally a

    There's plenty of names of women in the Bible starting with Eve. If
    someone didn't do anything notable, like most women of the period, such
    as dying in battle, why would their names be preserved? Look at how we preserve the names of our war dead even today.

    matriarchal religion as shown in the rule that Only a Jewish

    BOLLOCKS!

    woman can birth Jewish men.˙ The rite of circumcision which

    That has nothing to do with matriarchy. It's an issue to do with
    paternity. In those times before the discovery of DNA you couldn't
    verify someone was actually the son of who the mother claimed them to
    be, therefore babies born to foreign women by alleged Jewish fathers,
    and remember the Jews were a race, were probably the sons of foreigners
    that these foreign whores slept with, such as Joshua. And even then this didn't apply to Solomon who married foreigners.

    was Egyptian as well is meant to match the menstrual flow
    in magical power.


    More bollocks. Circumcision was to reduce the chance of men who
    regularly slept with prostitutes from passing on venereal diseases.
    There's a whole chapter in the Bible devoted to one such occasion
    Genesis 11 or 12 where Abraham prostitutes his sister-wife Sarah to
    Pharaoh and he and his entire household are infected with VD attributed
    to the wrath of God. Then Abraham plays the same trick on Abimelech, and
    his son Isaac plays it again on Abimelech's son Abimelech.


    Maybe, the original idea was to give people some good ideals to
    live their lives by, but ultimately religion is a crutch for
    weak minded people to get through life. I mean, look at Dave,
    he's hardly a good advert for Christianity is he? It does seem
    to be a profitable industry though, it must be said.

    ˙˙˙˙Look at the rules and you will see that it was meant to enrich
    the priestly families the cohens and the levites.˙ When they sacrificed
    an animal the god only got the skin bones and fat burned. The high
    protein part went to the people who slaughtered the animal.


    That was imported from Greek religion because of what Zeus did to
    Prometheus.


    Religion also seems to be a good reason for people who preach
    peace to go around killing one another...

    ˙˙˙˙Oh it is all about real estate and God is dragged into it for
    the foolish soldiers who kill each other.

    ˙˙˙˙WW I "Gott Mit Uns"

    ˙˙˙˙bliss


    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 13:58:37 2026
    On 8/5/2026 1:25 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 16:50, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 06:39, Blueshirt wrote:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all
    any of them are... made-up money making machines to part
    fools from their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit
    up.

    I don't know about that.

    Deffo!

    The old religions probably had deeper roots.

    Old or new, all made up and believed in by delusional people
    with nothing better to do with their time.

    People have hypothesized everything from fertility
    cults to archetypal hero worship to hallucinations, but surely
    it was based on something.˙ Why else would anyone else even
    believe anything as superficially unlikely?

    The problem is people all over the world believe in a swathe of
    different gods. They can't all be real, can they? So by
    definition some of those religions have to be wrong... at least.
    So who gets to decide who worships the real god(s) and who are
    the fools worshipping fake gods?

    ˙˙˙˙˙Well why not multiple Gods? Humans invented specialized roles
    for workers as soon as they had enough language to

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years, by
    many different people... then translated, mistranslated,
    revised, translated again to another different language, edited
    by church elders (with agendas), tidied up by scholars, revised
    again with improved translations and now in 2026 are nothing
    more than fantasy tales for the simple folk to believe in.

    ˙˙˙˙˙Actually before writing they were passed down orally. That

    That is PURE BOLLOCKS!

    Even Parry himself, the inventor of this stupid nonsense of "oral traditions" said in his papers that the oral poets WROTE EVERYTHING DOWN after they had composed it, otherwise how could they possibly remember
    any of it? How could Parry even verify the it was a "tradition"
    otherwise? He even concluded at the start of his doctoral thesis that he wouldn't possible do so, it was all speculation.

    NO ONE can possibly compose, not one, but two poems consisting of 15,000
    and 12,000 verses of hexameter each in a dialect NO ONE spoke 400 years later at the time of Herodotus who spoke the closest living descendent
    of Homeric Greek, without the use of writing, let alone have passed it
    on in that now extinct dialect. PERIOD! Even Parry accepted from the
    very beginning that the Iliad and the Odyssey were written down and that
    is why they remained unchained for 400 years even until the time of Herodotus who was able to verify the age of these works by comparing
    them with literature which came after them which could be precisely
    dated and whose dialects were clearly older than that of Herodotus but
    more recent than Homer. Parry himself stated that oral poetry must necessarily undergo substantial change by every oral poet who acquires
    it and retells it in his own way. Parry stated that this poetry was
    passed down IN WRITING not orally, was then changed during performance
    and then written down immediately afterwards. WRITTEN DOWN!

    Parry's only substantiated claim was that oral poets used stock phrases
    in their composition. And how did Parry substantiate this? Because those stock phrases had already been written down in writing beforehand,
    before they were learned by the oral poets. To Parry who invented this BULLSHIT, oral tradition emerged from an existing written tradition
    through corruption of the original literature and the creation of new literature.

    There is NO SUCH THING as Oral Tradition. What parry was writing about
    was Composition Through Oral Performance, which he admitted could not
    even be proven to be a tradition and which was facilitated by the use of writing.

    Can we drop the expletives?

    Memorizing epic poems is something people really do.

    Today, you can find 'oral repositories' in many pre-literate cultures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oral_repositories

    That includes people who know the longest poem in the world, the
    Epic of Manas, 20 times the length of the Odyssey and Iliad. There
    are people who can recite this today. They exist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Manas

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 19:01:37 2026
    On 05/08/2026 13:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots.
    People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal
    hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    They did nothing of the kind. We know exactly where the Greek and
    Egyptian gods came from because Herodotus and other writers tell us.
    They were the biological ancestors (mathematically proven) of the people
    who worshipped them. All recorded ancient religions were ancestor cults.
    We can even date the exact time at which these gods lived as historical
    kings of the people who made them into gods because of the benefits they
    gave to them. All the Greek gods date to around 1700 BC according to the Chronicon. They were basically Minoan period kings that ruled over
    Greece and Phoenicia (Philo, Porphyry, Sanchuniathon). The Egyptian gods
    were the direct ancestors of the Pharaoh?s who preceded the first
    Pharaoh Min (Herodotus citing the Egyptians and witnessing the bodies of
    the Pharaohs back to the time of Min himself).

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. If you
    read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much like
    what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an

    The Jewish god is the personification of the Pharaoh of Egypt who
    controlled Syria-Palestine and demanded tribute from the people who
    lived there. He even told Moses his name was "On", meaning The One, and
    that translates to the Egyptian name Ktes (also named Proteus according
    to Diodorus) which means he was the Pharaoh Setnakte. Other Pharaohs
    that were turned into the god of the Jews (not all of them were regarded
    as gods when they were opposed by other Pharaohs, which is why the bible
    talks about prophets of false gods) include Ramses III the god of Joshua
    and Necho (named in the Bible) who as the Bible describes handed over
    the land of Syria-Palestine to Nebuchadnezzar II, as corroborated by
    Herodotus and the inscription of Nebuchadnezzar II himself.

    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come down.
    When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're doing. Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is
    only one of those gods.


    Correct. Jehovah was the son of El, the son of Baal-Shamen, the son of
    Elyon, the Most-High God to whom the Jewish temple was dedicated.
    Jehovah's brothers included Mot, Hubal (Apollo),
    Set/Sutekh/Suduc/Typhon, Shaddai, El the younger, and Dushara (Zeus Belus)

    Also among Jehovah's brothers was his possibly half-brother Baal Hadad
    who was also the basis for the Greek god Hades and later Adonis and thus
    the Hebrew god Adonai, gods of the dead. El was Kronos or Saturn and is testified to in Linear A inscriptions at the Cretan king Satur dating to around 1700 BC the same time as when El lived. Jehovah's name is
    preserved in Egyptian inscriptions from the same period as Meruserenre Yakubher, and this explains why the Jews worshipped the successive
    Pharaoh's of Egypt as their god.

    The Hebrew god Tsebaoth (Atlas) was the brother of El along with Dagon
    and Bartylus, and his sisters were Astarte (Aphrodite), Ashera (Rhea),
    and Baaltis (Dione/Demeter). Anat (Athena) was also a daughter of El.

    Baal-Hadad (Adonai) was the son of a concubine of Baal-Shamen that El
    gave in marriage to Dagon so all three of these people have claim to be
    his father.

    El was married to his sister Ashera who he offered as wife to Jehovah,
    Yam Nahar (River Sea, hence Pontus in Greece), or Yaw in the Baal Epic
    which explained why the Elephantine letters describe her as the wife of Jehovah.

    The Elohim or Gods which the book of Genesis claims created the heaven
    and the earth were the basis for the Greek Titans. They were the god who fought with El to depose his father Baal-Shamen as ruler, after which he castrated him with a sickle.

    The key to the Bible is LORD means Jehovah, GOD means El, God means the
    Elohim who are mixed up with the Holy Spirit, and Lord means Adonsi (Adonis/Hades/Baal-Hadad).

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 11:20:07 2026
    On 8/5/26 10:25, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 16:50, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 06:39, Blueshirt wrote:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all
    any of them are... made-up money making machines to part
    fools from their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit
    up.

    I don't know about that.

    Deffo!

    The old religions probably had deeper roots.

    Ignorance is the deepest root of all.
    Language once invented made it possible to invent stories
    about the gods and the strange reasons that they did things to
    people like disease and striking down people with lightening
    and horrid diseases.


    Old or new, all made up and believed in by delusional people
    with nothing better to do with their time.

    People have hypothesized everything from fertility
    cults to archetypal hero worship to hallucinations, but surely
    it was based on something.˙ Why else would anyone else even
    believe anything as superficially unlikely?

    Because they were ignorant and had to invent reasons for the
    reality around them.


    The problem is people all over the world believe in a swathe of
    different gods. They can't all be real, can they? So by
    definition some of those religions have to be wrong... at least.
    So who gets to decide who worships the real god(s) and who are
    the fools worshipping fake gods?

    ˙˙˙˙˙Well why not multiple Gods? Humans invented specialized roles
    for workers as soon as they had enough language to

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years, by
    many different people... then translated, mistranslated,
    revised, translated again to another different language, edited
    by church elders (with agendas), tidied up by scholars, revised
    again with improved translations and now in 2026 are nothing
    more than fantasy tales for the simple folk to believe in.

    Not true. The Jewish elders in BC decided on the contents to be included in the Old Testament. The Catholics agreed that this happened
    then they decided at various councils what could be included in the
    New Testament.
    And strangely enough it was nothing that could




    ˙˙˙˙˙Actually before writing they were passed down orally. That

    That is PURE BOLLOCKS!

    And why did the Romans and earlier the Greeks lament the invention of writing as destructive of memory?



    Even Parry himself, the inventor of this stupid nonsense of "oral traditions" said in his papers that the oral poets WROTE EVERYTHING DOWN
    You have to have a written language before you can write anything down.
    The oral tradition is real and preexisted written
    language. Parry was a victim of writing and had lost contact with
    his own memory.

    .

    Homer's works were composed in writing. They could not have been
    composed otherwise let alone transmitted in a dialect no one else spoke. Some stock phrases were repeated over and over again because they were derived from earlier WRITTEN material containing earlier poetry which
    Parry and no one can verify contained those phrases because those texts
    were not longer extant even in the time of Herodotus.

    Baloney! I used to drink and compose poetry while inspired by
    Backus and Sileneus, speaking in a figurative sense. It is easy to do
    if you have a organized memory or not.

    Again you have to have written language first and language itself was an invention. You have to have it before you can invent
    a written language.


    The ancient Greeks possessed writing since 1900 BC in the from of Linear Syllabic script which was in constant use and never died out until 300
    BC when Cypriot Syllabic was completely replaced with the regular Greek Alphabet.

    And the Trojan War was not that long before:
    From Wiki:
    The earliest written evidence is a Linear B clay tablet found in
    Messenia that dates to between 1450 and 1350 BC, [21] making Greek the
    world's oldest recorded living language. [22] Among the Indo-European languages,

    You like the word bollocks but I think most of what you write is
    just that, Patriachal Bollocks.

    The handle you use here The True Doctor reminds me of the
    Doctress who used be a a regular annoyance.


    Maybe, the original idea was to give people some good ideals to
    live their lives by, but ultimately religion is a crutch for
    weak minded people to get through life. I mean, look at Dave,
    he's hardly a good advert for Christianity is he? It does seem
    to be a profitable industry though, it must be said.

    No the original idea was control of the people through the common beliefs whether multiple or unitary divinity.


    ˙˙˙˙˙Look at the rules and you will see that it was meant to enrich
    the priestly families the cohens and the levites.˙ When they sacrificed
    an animal the god only got the skin bones and fat burned. The high
    protein part went to the people who slaughtered the animal.


    That was imported from Greek religion because of what Zeus did to Prometheus.

    The Hebrews might disagree but it means nothing. The real matter is who
    profits by the sacrifices and it is the priestly classes. which
    in the case of the ancient Jews were hereditary positions.



    Religion also seems to be a good reason for people who preach
    peace to go around killing one another...

    ˙˙˙˙˙Oh it is all about real estate and God is dragged into it for
    the foolish soldiers who kill each other.

    ˙˙˙˙˙WW I "Gott Mit Uns"

    ˙˙˙˙˙bliss

    Don't depend on outworn scholarship to defend your religion.
    Join Dalton in obscurity.

    bliss - through study and experience



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 19:44:19 2026
    On 05/08/2026 14:39, Blueshirt wrote:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all
    any of them are... made-up money making machines to part
    fools from their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit
    up.

    I don't know about that.

    Deffo!

    The old religions probably had deeper roots.

    Old or new, all made up and believed in by delusional people
    with nothing better to do with their time.

    People have hypothesized everything from fertility
    cults to archetypal hero worship to hallucinations, but surely
    it was based on something. Why else would anyone else even
    believe anything as superficially unlikely?

    The problem is people all over the world believe in a swathe of
    different gods. They can't all be real, can they? So by
    definition some of those religions have to be wrong... at least.
    So who gets to decide who worships the real god(s) and who are
    the fools worshipping fake gods?

    The ancient Greek, Phoenician, Hittite, Norse
    (Viking/Varangian/Phrygian), Hindu, and Roman religions are all exactly
    the same religion and share exactly the same deified Phoenician kings as
    their gods. This has been known since Roman times when Philo and
    Porphyry translated the Phoenician History of Sanchuniathon.

    Kronos was El to the Phoenicians, Saturn to the Romans, Borr to the
    Vikings, Kumarbi to the Hittites, and Brahma to the Hindus. His father
    Ouranos or Uranus was the Phoenician god Baal-Shamen (sky god), the
    Viking god Buri, the Hindu god Varuna, and Hittite god Anu.

    Zeus or Jupiter is the Hindu god Deus-Piter and Hittite god Taru/Teshub, Phoenician god Zeus-Belus/Dashara (probably a cognate of Teshub) and
    most likely to have been recorded as the Egyptian Pharaoh Shesi when he
    ruled over Egypt.

    The Viking god Surtr who fought against Odin and Thor at Ragnarok with
    an army of giants and was ultimately defered was the Phoenician God King
    Suduc also known as Sutekh or Set and therefore the Greek god Typhon who fought against Zeus after the defeat of the Giants. This happened in
    exactly the year 1628 BC because the events at Ragnarok including the
    sinking of Midgard (Middle-Earth) which was Mygdonia in Greece under the waters and earthquakes and volcanic interruptions were the result of the
    Thera Eruption which blasted away 4/5 of the island of Santorini and
    caused a Mega Tsuniami which flooded the whole of Greece and Crete and
    reached all the way to Cyprus and Egypt. This was also the basis for the
    story of the sinking of Atlantis and Noah's Flood since Noah is
    identified by Josephus as the Athenian King Ogygus and Roman king Janus
    who both lived at this time according to the chronologies of Diodorus
    and Syncellus (the year for the eruption is actually spot on with the chronologies).


    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years, by
    many different people... then translated, mistranslated,
    revised, translated again to another different language, edited
    by church elders (with agendas), tidied up by scholars, revised
    again with improved translations and now in 2026 are nothing
    more than fantasy tales for the simple folk to believe in.

    Absolute poppycock. If you are referring to the Bible, it was written in Hebrew based on Egyptian, Hittite, Assyro-Babylonian, Phoenician, Greek,
    and Jewish historical texts from the periods that it covers.

    The kings in it as well as the early biblical patriarchs were based on
    real historical kings from the region. The gods were those of the
    Phoenicians and attributed as personifications of the Pharaoh of Egypt
    or whoever ruled over Syria-Palestine at the time as the dominant ruler.
    This was originally done in the same manner that Homer has the Greek
    gods appearing in the form of the heroes from both sides who fought in
    the Trojan War and how the Viking epics have the gods appear as heroes
    from those epics. After the Bible was copied over and over just like in
    Greek and Viking mythology the names of the heroes or Pharaohs or other
    rulers in whose form the gods appeared in were lost and all were
    remained were tales of the Gods carrying out the deeds of the original
    heroes or Pharaohs of Egypt who generally behaved like genocidal tyrants
    which is why the God of the Bible behaves in exactly the same kind of tyrannical and genocidal manner. Joshua's destruction of Jericho for
    examples follows Ramses III's campaign in Palestine in 1175 BC after he defeated the Sea Peoples, ie. Achaean Greeks and Teukrians led by Teucer
    the king of Salamis from Cyprus, the same year Herodotus, Euripides, and Apollodorus record both Teucer and Menelaus in Egypt 2 years before
    Odysseus returns home to Ithaca.


    Maybe, the original idea was to give people some good ideals to
    live their lives by, but ultimately religion is a crutch for
    weak minded people to get through life. I mean, look at Dave,
    he's hardly a good advert for Christianity is he? It does seem
    to be a profitable industry though, it must be said.

    No. The original idea was to record actual history. Then that history
    got turned into epic poems, and then those epic poems were lost or
    corrupted and the names of heroes or kings in whose form the Gods
    appeared in were lest and all that remained were the names of the Gods
    who were inserted into them.

    All the shit about them controlling the motions of the stars and the
    heavens, and the planets, and the forces of nature came later when the
    entire system of organised religion which was nothing more than institutionalised ancestor worse broke down in Roman times, and that is
    why it was so easy for Christianity to take over since it was formed out
    of a resistance movement against Roman rule and Jesus and his apostles
    were created based on the acts of the main rebels.


    Religion also seems to be a good reason for people who preach
    peace to go around killing one another...

    Because it's founded on the actions and behaviour of real life tyrants.

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 19:57:39 2026
    On 05/08/2026 18:58, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/5/2026 1:25 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 16:50, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 06:39, Blueshirt wrote:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all
    any of them are... made-up money making machines to part
    fools from their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit
    up.

    I don't know about that.

    Deffo!

    The old religions probably had deeper roots.

    Old or new, all made up and believed in by delusional people
    with nothing better to do with their time.

    People have hypothesized everything from fertility
    cults to archetypal hero worship to hallucinations, but surely
    it was based on something.˙ Why else would anyone else even
    believe anything as superficially unlikely?

    The problem is people all over the world believe in a swathe of
    different gods. They can't all be real, can they? So by
    definition some of those religions have to be wrong... at least.
    So who gets to decide who worships the real god(s) and who are
    the fools worshipping fake gods?

    ˙˙˙˙˙Well why not multiple Gods? Humans invented specialized roles
    for workers as soon as they had enough language to

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years, by
    many different people... then translated, mistranslated,
    revised, translated again to another different language, edited
    by church elders (with agendas), tidied up by scholars, revised
    again with improved translations and now in 2026 are nothing
    more than fantasy tales for the simple folk to believe in.

    ˙˙˙˙˙Actually before writing they were passed down orally. That

    That is PURE BOLLOCKS!

    Even Parry himself, the inventor of this stupid nonsense of "oral
    traditions" said in his papers that the oral poets WROTE EVERYTHING
    DOWN after they had composed it, otherwise how could they possibly
    remember any of it? How could Parry even verify the it was a
    "tradition" otherwise? He even concluded at the start of his doctoral
    thesis that he wouldn't possible do so, it was all speculation.

    NO ONE can possibly compose, not one, but two poems consisting of
    15,000 and 12,000 verses of hexameter each in a dialect NO ONE spoke
    400 years later at the time of Herodotus who spoke the closest living
    descendent of Homeric Greek, without the use of writing, let alone
    have passed it on in that now extinct dialect. PERIOD! Even Parry
    accepted from the very beginning that the Iliad and the Odyssey were
    written down and that is why they remained unchained for 400 years
    even until the time of Herodotus who was able to verify the age of
    these works by comparing them with literature which came after them
    which could be precisely dated and whose dialects were clearly older
    than that of Herodotus but more recent than Homer. Parry himself
    stated that oral poetry must necessarily undergo substantial change by
    every oral poet who acquires it and retells it in his own way. Parry
    stated that this poetry was passed down IN WRITING not orally, was
    then changed during performance and then written down immediately
    afterwards. WRITTEN DOWN!

    Parry's only substantiated claim was that oral poets used stock
    phrases in their composition. And how did Parry substantiate this?
    Because those stock phrases had already been written down in writing
    beforehand, before they were learned by the oral poets. To Parry who
    invented this BULLSHIT, oral tradition emerged from an existing
    written tradition through corruption of the original literature and
    the creation of new literature.

    There is NO SUCH THING as Oral Tradition. What parry was writing about
    was Composition Through Oral Performance, which he admitted could not
    even be proven to be a tradition and which was facilitated by the use
    of writing.

    Can we drop the expletives?

    Memorizing epic poems is something people really do.

    They do nothing of the kind unless they have written texts to follow, no different to memorising Shakespeare which is even longer than your
    example, and they don't memorise them in extinct delicts nobody even speaks.


    Today, you can find 'oral repositories' in many pre-literate cultures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oral_repositories

    ALL OF WHICH IS PURE BOLLCOCKS.

    Even Parry said the oral poets wrote everything down and assumes a pre-existant written culture pretended them. Only a totally and utter
    imbecile would assume the absence of writing, especially when it has
    existed for over 5000 years, and there's absolutely NOTHING, no poetry,
    no history, zitto, NOTHING, that exists before that. NOTHING!


    That includes people who know the longest poem in the world, the
    Epic of Manas, 20 times the length of the Odyssey and Iliad. There
    are people who can recite this today. They exist.

    That is also PURE BULLEXCREMENT. The length of the poem is of the
    PUBLISHED WRITTEN TEXT. NO ONE has memorised to full text, even after it
    was made up and written down.

    The events portrayed occurred in the 16th and 17th centuries and writing
    has existed for millennia before then. The events were written down, transcribed into various poems which were then also written down, and
    then all of that was eventually published as a single work. I've read
    Parry and that's what Parry says or would have told you about oral
    poetry. By Parry's own definition if it hasn't undergone substantial
    change that can be traced through written transcriptions then it's not
    an oral tradition. Only stupid people believe in oral tradition. Parry
    knew he could never prove they were traditions at all and says so. It's
    oral performance of written texts.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Manas

    pt


    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 17:22:27 2026
    The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
    In article <114vl64$33ot8$2@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/5/26 03:33, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <114uo80$2p8k4$1@dont-email.me>, did Your Name
    <YourName@YourISP.com> deliver unto us this message:

    On 8/5/2026 12:22 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote:

    L. Ron Hubbard said you don't get rich writing sci-fi

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the ridiculous
    Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something? Then it
    proved lucrative, and here we are.

    That's the vague version I heard, at least. I never heard details or saw >>> evidence.

    No dare. He wanted to escape taxes.

    Got you.

    Taxes! Aye! That's-a where my brother Ravelli lives!
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Your Name@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 09:42:42 2026
    On 2026-08-05 16:04:32 +0000, The True Melissa said:
    Verily, in article <114vlbl$33ot8$3@dont-email.me>, did BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> deliver unto us this message:

    On 8/5/26 05:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt
    <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots.
    People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal
    hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. If you >>> read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much like >>> what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not
    omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an
    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come down. >>> When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're doing. >>> Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is
    only one of those gods.


    But YHWH is the God of Storms a Zeus.Jupiter equivalent and t
    ake a look at the Universe and it is full of storm-like activity.
    Not that I think it is more than coincidence.

    He began as a god of volcanoes, though. He became god of storms when he crowded out Baal.

    This is a great video which examines the Bible and concludes that Yahweh
    was originally envisoned as a dragon, not a human.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XogaHpV5oUs

    That certainly has some interesting ties to Gnostic thinking.

    There's probably a better newsgroup for this.

    The best places for anything to do with stupid religions and their
    looney "believers" would be:

    alt.talk.bollocks
    alt.idiots
    alt.stupid.idiots
    alt.morons
    alt.stupid.morons

    :-p




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 18:36:24 2026
    On 8/5/2026 5:32 AM, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <114uj1t$2nlju$1@dont-email.me>, did Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> deliver unto us this message:

    On 8/5/2026 12:22 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
    Who has?

    Are you including fantasy?

    Robert Heinlein

    You'd put Robert Heinlein in the fantasy column? Interesting. He seems squarely science fiction to me.

    You are misreading my list of rich authors. My list of rich authors is speculative fiction authors, which includes both science fiction and
    fantasy.

    BTW, Robert Heinlein wrote "Glory Road", an acknowledged fantasy work.
    Some of his other works such as "The Cat Who Walks Through Walls"
    straddle the line between science fiction and fantasy. So does
    "Stranger In A Strange Land" and a several other of his works.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 22:02:16 2026
    On 8/5/2026 2:57 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 18:58, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/5/2026 1:25 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 16:50, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 06:39, Blueshirt wrote:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all
    any of them are... made-up money making machines to part
    fools from their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit
    up.

    I don't know about that.

    Deffo!

    The old religions probably had deeper roots.

    Old or new, all made up and believed in by delusional people
    with nothing better to do with their time.

    People have hypothesized everything from fertility
    cults to archetypal hero worship to hallucinations, but surely
    it was based on something.˙ Why else would anyone else even
    believe anything as superficially unlikely?

    The problem is people all over the world believe in a swathe of
    different gods. They can't all be real, can they? So by
    definition some of those religions have to be wrong... at least.
    So who gets to decide who worships the real god(s) and who are
    the fools worshipping fake gods?

    ˙˙˙˙˙Well why not multiple Gods? Humans invented specialized roles
    for workers as soon as they had enough language to

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years, by
    many different people... then translated, mistranslated,
    revised, translated again to another different language, edited
    by church elders (with agendas), tidied up by scholars, revised
    again with improved translations and now in 2026 are nothing
    more than fantasy tales for the simple folk to believe in.

    ˙˙˙˙˙Actually before writing they were passed down orally. That

    That is PURE BOLLOCKS!

    Even Parry himself, the inventor of this stupid nonsense of "oral
    traditions" said in his papers that the oral poets WROTE EVERYTHING
    DOWN after they had composed it, otherwise how could they possibly
    remember any of it? How could Parry even verify the it was a
    "tradition" otherwise? He even concluded at the start of his doctoral
    thesis that he wouldn't possible do so, it was all speculation.

    NO ONE can possibly compose, not one, but two poems consisting of
    15,000 and 12,000 verses of hexameter each in a dialect NO ONE spoke
    400 years later at the time of Herodotus who spoke the closest living
    descendent of Homeric Greek, without the use of writing, let alone
    have passed it on in that now extinct dialect. PERIOD! Even Parry
    accepted from the very beginning that the Iliad and the Odyssey were
    written down and that is why they remained unchained for 400 years
    even until the time of Herodotus who was able to verify the age of
    these works by comparing them with literature which came after them
    which could be precisely dated and whose dialects were clearly older
    than that of Herodotus but more recent than Homer. Parry himself
    stated that oral poetry must necessarily undergo substantial change
    by every oral poet who acquires it and retells it in his own way.
    Parry stated that this poetry was passed down IN WRITING not orally,
    was then changed during performance and then written down immediately
    afterwards. WRITTEN DOWN!

    Parry's only substantiated claim was that oral poets used stock
    phrases in their composition. And how did Parry substantiate this?
    Because those stock phrases had already been written down in writing
    beforehand, before they were learned by the oral poets. To Parry who
    invented this BULLSHIT, oral tradition emerged from an existing
    written tradition through corruption of the original literature and
    the creation of new literature.

    There is NO SUCH THING as Oral Tradition. What parry was writing
    about was Composition Through Oral Performance, which he admitted
    could not even be proven to be a tradition and which was facilitated
    by the use of writing.

    Can we drop the expletives?

    Memorizing epic poems is something people really do.

    They do nothing of the kind unless they have written texts to follow, no different to memorising Shakespeare which is even longer than your
    example, and they don't memorise them in extinct delicts nobody even
    speaks.


    Today, you can find 'oral repositories' in many pre-literate cultures
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oral_repositories

    ALL OF WHICH IS PURE BOLLCOCKS.

    Even Parry said the oral poets wrote everything down and assumes a pre- existant written culture pretended them. Only a totally and utter
    imbecile would assume the absence of writing, especially when it has
    existed for over 5000 years, and there's absolutely NOTHING, no poetry,
    no history, zitto, NOTHING, that exists before that. NOTHING!


    That includes people who know the longest poem in the world, the
    Epic of Manas, 20 times the length of the Odyssey and Iliad. There
    are people who can recite this today. They exist.

    That is also PURE BULLEXCREMENT. The length of the poem is of the
    PUBLISHED WRITTEN TEXT. NO ONE has memorised to full text, even after it
    was made up and written down.

    It's rare to see to pure a case of Proof by Vigorous Assertion.

    Please provide evidence, or shut up.

    pt



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 5 22:06:10 2026
    On 8/5/2026 2:01 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 13:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt
    <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots.
    People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal
    hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    They did nothing of the kind. We know exactly where the Greek and
    Egyptian gods came from because Herodotus and other writers tell us.
    They were the biological ancestors (mathematically proven) of the people
    who worshipped them. All recorded ancient religions were ancestor cults.
    We can even date the exact time at which these gods lived as historical kings of the people who made them into gods because of the benefits they gave to them. All the Greek gods date to around 1700 BC according to the Chronicon. They were basically Minoan period kings that ruled over
    Greece and Phoenicia (Philo, Porphyry, Sanchuniathon). The Egyptian gods were the direct ancestors of the Pharaoh?s who preceded the first
    Pharaoh Min (Herodotus citing the Egyptians and witnessing the bodies of
    the Pharaohs back to the time of Min himself).

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. If you
    read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much like
    what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not
    omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an

    The Jewish god is the personification of the Pharaoh of Egypt who
    controlled Syria-Palestine and demanded tribute from the people who
    lived there. He even told Moses his name was "On", meaning The One, and
    that translates to the Egyptian name Ktes (also named Proteus according
    to Diodorus) which means he was the Pharaoh Setnakte. Other Pharaohs
    that were turned into the god of the Jews (not all of them were regarded
    as gods when they were opposed by other Pharaohs, which is why the bible talks about prophets of false gods) include Ramses III the god of Joshua
    and Necho (named in the Bible) who as the Bible describes handed over
    the land of Syria-Palestine to Nebuchadnezzar II, as corroborated by Herodotus and the inscription of Nebuchadnezzar II himself.

    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come down.
    When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're doing.
    Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is
    only one of those gods.


    Correct. Jehovah was the son of El, the son of Baal-Shamen, the son of Elyon, the Most-High God to whom the Jewish temple was dedicated.
    Jehovah's brothers included Mot, Hubal (Apollo), Set/Sutekh/Suduc/
    Typhon, Shaddai, El the younger, and Dushara (Zeus Belus)

    Also among Jehovah's brothers was his possibly half-brother Baal Hadad
    who was also the basis for the Greek god Hades and later Adonis and thus
    the Hebrew god Adonai, gods of the dead. El was Kronos or Saturn and is testified to in Linear A inscriptions at the Cretan king Satur dating to around 1700 BC the same time as when El lived. Jehovah's name is
    preserved in Egyptian inscriptions from the same period as Meruserenre Yakubher, and this explains why the Jews worshipped the successive
    Pharaoh's of Egypt as their god.

    The Hebrew god Tsebaoth (Atlas) was the brother of El along with Dagon
    and Bartylus, and his sisters were Astarte (Aphrodite), Ashera (Rhea),
    and Baaltis (Dione/Demeter). Anat (Athena) was also a daughter of El.

    Baal-Hadad (Adonai) was the son of a concubine of Baal-Shamen that El
    gave in marriage to Dagon so all three of these people have claim to be
    his father.

    El was married to his sister Ashera who he offered as wife to Jehovah,
    Yam Nahar (River Sea, hence Pontus in Greece), or Yaw in the Baal Epic
    which explained why the Elephantine letters describe her as the wife of Jehovah.

    The Elohim or Gods which the book of Genesis claims created the heaven
    and the earth were the basis for the Greek Titans. They were the god who fought with El to depose his father Baal-Shamen as ruler, after which he castrated him with a sickle.

    The key to the Bible is LORD means Jehovah, GOD means El, God means the Elohim who are mixed up with the Holy Spirit, and Lord means Adonsi (Adonis/Hades/Baal-Hadad).

    OK, we've got enough evidence that this guy is Loony Tunes, and not
    to be engaged with seriously (he may be fun to tease, though).

    pt


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 04:13:00 2026
    On 05/08/2026 19:20, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 10:25, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 16:50, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 06:39, Blueshirt wrote:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all
    any of them are... made-up money making machines to part
    fools from their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit
    up.

    I don't know about that.

    Deffo!

    The old religions probably had deeper roots.

    ˙˙˙˙Ignorance is the deepest root of all.
    ˙˙˙˙Language once invented made it possible to invent stories
    about the gods and the strange reasons that they did things to
    people like disease and striking down people with lightening
    and horrid diseases.

    None of you have the remotest clue of what you are talking about.

    ALL ancient religions were ancestor cults. That and nothing more. Even
    with recently discovered primitive tribes that have a religion that
    religion is an ancestor cult. They sacrifice to the ancestors who were
    the tyrants that ruled them because these tyrants controlled everything
    in their lives when they lived and in death they a presumed to control everyone and everything in the afterlife including the forces of nature.
    Those forces of nature were controlled by them when they were living
    through science. Stop assuming primitive peoples are as stupid and
    ignorant as you are.



    Old or new, all made up and believed in by delusional people
    with nothing better to do with their time.

    People have hypothesized everything from fertility
    cults to archetypal hero worship to hallucinations, but surely
    it was based on something.˙ Why else would anyone else even
    believe anything as superficially unlikely?

    ˙˙˙˙Because they were ignorant and had to invent reasons for the
    reality around them.

    No they were not. See above. You are the one who is ignorant. If these societies are as stupid as you are as an individual then they would not
    have been able to develop the science we have today.



    The problem is people all over the world believe in a swathe of
    different gods. They can't all be real, can they? So by
    definition some of those religions have to be wrong... at least.
    So who gets to decide who worships the real god(s) and who are
    the fools worshipping fake gods?

    ˙˙˙˙˙Well why not multiple Gods? Humans invented specialized roles
    for workers as soon as they had enough language to

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years, by
    many different people... then translated, mistranslated,
    revised, translated again to another different language, edited
    by church elders (with agendas), tidied up by scholars, revised
    again with improved translations and now in 2026 are nothing
    more than fantasy tales for the simple folk to believe in.

    ˙˙˙˙Not true. The Jewish elders in BC decided on the contents to be
    included in the Old Testament.˙ The Catholics agreed that this happened
    then they decided at various councils what could be included in the
    New Testament.
    ˙˙˙˙And strangely enough it was nothing that could

    The Jews translated the Jewish scriptures into ancient Greek at the
    Library of Alexandria in around 260 BC and thus created the Septuagint
    which is the original form of the Old Testament. The Roman Catholic
    Church had nothing to do with setting the New Testament. It was done by
    the original Christian church which is now the Greek Orthodox Church.



    ˙˙˙˙˙Actually before writing they were passed down orally. That

    That is PURE BOLLOCKS!

    ˙˙˙˙And why did the Romans and earlier the Greeks lament the invention
    of writing as destructive of memory?


    This had nothing to do with creating poetry. It was about the fact that writing for millennia of recorded history allowed facts to be written
    down without corruption so people didn't need to make any effort to
    memorised them or even learn mental arithmetic since everything could
    easily be read or written down for memory, or calculated on paper or wax
    or clay tablets, which is what writing was invented for in the first
    place. The first writing in Europe existed since 1900 BC in the form of Linear Syllabic and this script did not die out until around 300 BC. The
    Greek alphabet came into use in Thebes in 1430 BC and was in wide usage
    across the Greek world from no later than 1200 BC (Chronicon and Pliny)



    Even Parry himself, the inventor of this stupid nonsense of "oral
    traditions" said in his papers that the oral poets WROTE EVERYTHING
    DOWN ˙˙˙˙You have to have a written language before you can write
    anything down.
    ˙The oral tradition is real and preexisted written

    Oral tradition is a fictitious construct of the modern day and
    misrepresented total morons as something it never was. Even Parry said
    it couldn't be proven to be a tradition. Parry insisted that everything
    that was composed orally was immediately written down. If it hadn't been
    he wouldn't have been able to prove that it was orally composed because
    by necessity of his own definition it had to undergo substantial change
    every time it passed from poet to poet.

    language.˙ Parry was a victim of writing and had lost contact with
    his own memory.


    You've not even read Parry whereas I have. His papers on oral traditions
    were not part of his doctoral thesis.

    .

    Homer's works were composed in writing. They could not have been
    composed otherwise let alone transmitted in a dialect no one else
    spoke. Some stock phrases were repeated over and over again because
    they were derived from earlier WRITTEN material containing earlier
    poetry which Parry and no one can verify contained those phrases
    because those texts were not longer extant even in the time of Herodotus.

    ˙˙˙˙Baloney! I used to drink and compose poetry while inspired by
    Backus and Sileneus, speaking in a figurative sense.˙ It is easy to do
    if you have a organized memory or not.

    Do you remember any of it? Without writing it down you would not. Even
    Parry accepted that.


    ˙˙˙˙Again you have to have written language first and language itself
    was an invention.˙ You have to have it before you can invent
    a written language.


    Actually the evidence shows the complete opposite. Cave paintings, which
    are the original basis of writing as pictograms are over 150,000 years
    old, allegedly. Not one modern language that exists today is more than
    7000 years old. NOT ONE!


    The ancient Greeks possessed writing since 1900 BC in the from of
    Linear Syllabic script which was in constant use and never died out
    until 300 BC when Cypriot Syllabic was completely replaced with the
    regular Greek Alphabet.

    ˙˙˙˙And the Trojan War was not that long before:
    From Wiki:
    The earliest written evidence is a Linear B clay tablet found in
    Messenia that dates to between 1450 and 1350 BC, [21] making Greek the world's oldest recorded living language. [22] Among the Indo-European languages,

    The capture of Troy took place on May 12 (12 Thargelion) 1182 BC
    (converted to our calendar). Writing is why we know that exact date.


    You like the word bollocks but I think most of what you write is
    just that, Patriachal Bollocks.

    Patriarchal? More of your ignorant woke bollocks.


    The handle you use here The True Doctor reminds me of the
    Doctress who used be a a regular annoyance.


    And your point is what? Whittaker was totally miscast in the role. The
    Doctor is a white, British, heterosexual, male, male character, and
    anyone who disagrees with that is a sexist, a racist, and a bigot.


    Maybe, the original idea was to give people some good ideals to
    live their lives by, but ultimately religion is a crutch for
    weak minded people to get through life. I mean, look at Dave,
    he's hardly a good advert for Christianity is he? It does seem
    to be a profitable industry though, it must be said.

    ˙˙˙˙No the original idea was control of the people through the common beliefs whether multiple or unitary divinity.

    No it wasn't. The original idea was that the people were ruled by
    beneficent dictators or tyrants who controlled everything in their
    entire lives. They were then turned into gods by the people around them.
    We know this to be a historical FACT from primary sources including Sanchuniathon who saw the entire record of how the stories concerning
    these tyrannical rulers were embellished to turn them into gods and
    eventually the texts became almost unrecognisable when compared to the original sources, which Sanchuniathon had in his possession. Herodotus confirms the same process took place concerning the creation of the
    Greek and Egyptian gods. There was NEVER any descenting opinion
    concerning this. All ancient religion was known to be ancestor worship.



    ˙˙˙˙˙Look at the rules and you will see that it was meant to enrich
    the priestly families the cohens and the levites.˙ When they sacrificed
    an animal the god only got the skin bones and fat burned. The high
    protein part went to the people who slaughtered the animal.


    That was imported from Greek religion because of what Zeus did to
    Prometheus.

    ˙˙˙˙The Hebrews might disagree but it means nothing. The real matter is

    The ancient Greek sources such as Hesiod and Homer pre-date the Hebrew scriptures by many many centuries.
    who profits by the sacrifices and it is the priestly classes. which
    in the case of the ancient Jews were hereditary positions.


    The sacrifices originated from tribute that the people brought to the
    tyrants that ruled over them who they turned into their gods and
    worshipped in their ancestor cults. This tribute included 1/6 of their
    animals and agricultural produce so as to feed these tyrants and their
    armies. That's what sacrifice was. It was taxation. The ancient Greeks
    and Egyptians continued the practice in memory of the tyrants that
    originally ruled them. Eventually they old offered the fat and the bones
    to these deceased rulers, but the evidence indicates that there was a rebellion in the time of Prometheus (1700 to 1628 BC) where tribute was withheld, and then the entire civilisation was destroyed by the Thera eruption, but the worship remained.



    Religion also seems to be a good reason for people who preach
    peace to go around killing one another...

    ˙˙˙˙˙Oh it is all about real estate and God is dragged into it for
    the foolish soldiers who kill each other.

    ˙˙˙˙˙WW I "Gott Mit Uns"

    ˙˙˙˙˙bliss

    ˙˙˙˙Don't depend on outworn scholarship to defend your religion.
    ˙˙˙˙Join Dalton in obscurity.

    ˙˙˙˙bliss - through study and experience




    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 04:34:10 2026
    On 05/08/2026 16:37, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 05:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt
    <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots.
    People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal
    hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. If you
    read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much like
    what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not
    omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an
    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come down.
    When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're doing.
    Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is
    only one of those gods.


    ˙˙˙˙But YHWH is the God of Storms a Zeus.Jupiter equivalent and t
    ake a look at the Universe and it is full of storm-like activity.
    ˙˙˙˙Not that I think it is more than coincidence.

    Jehovah was a sea god. He is named as Yaw or Yam Nahar (Rive Sea) in the
    Baal Epic. His Greek equivalent was Pontus as stated by Eusebius, Philo,
    and Pliny. He might also be the Lotan of the Baal Epic and Leviathan of
    the Bible. If so his origin is from Asia-Minor, and he was a Luwian king
    who ruled over the Pontus or Black Sea hence his given name since
    Leviathan means The Luwian. He was defeated by Baal Hadad, ie. Hades in
    the Baal Epic and his ships scattered over the sea. That's your Jehovah.
    It's likely, based on Snorri's identification of Asgard as Troy in
    Asia-Minor (the Bosphorus is the basis of the Bi-Frost bridge, and
    Midgard was Mygdonia or Minoan Greece), that he was worshipped by the
    Vikings ie. Varangians or Phrygians as Odin

    That means Zeus was Sheshi (Saasitepis ie. Ausstaeb/Istaveon in Linear A inscriptions found in Crete from between 1700 and 1650 BC), Poseidon was
    Odin or Jehovah (Meruserenre Yakubher, who ruled Egypt in ~1675 BC), and Baal-Hadad was the basis for Hades and the Jewish god Adonai.

    The Baal Epic dates to around 1600 BC and as confirmed by Philo and
    Porphyry following Sanchiniathon was written close to the time the
    events that it describes occurred.

    This is where all the Indo-European and Hebrew religions come from.

    They're all based on the Hyksos (Foreign Rulers) 15th Dynasty rule of
    Egypt between 1750 and 1600 BC.

    It's pretty obvious really once you know the literature and chronology.

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 05:15:11 2026
    On 06/08/2026 04:48, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <1150vbi$3h7j3$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 16:37, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 05:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt
    <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots.
    People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal >>>> hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*. >>>> Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. If you >>>> read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much like >>>> what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not >>>> omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an
    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come down. >>>> When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're doing. >>>> Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is
    only one of those gods.


    ˙˙˙˙But YHWH is the God of Storms a Zeus.Jupiter equivalent and t
    ake a look at the Universe and it is full of storm-like activity.
    ˙˙˙˙Not that I think it is more than coincidence.

    Jehovah was a sea god. He is named as Yaw or Yam Nahar (Rive Sea) in the
    Baal Epic. His Greek equivalent was Pontus as stated by Eusebius, Philo,
    and Pliny. He might also be the Lotan of the Baal Epic and Leviathan of
    the Bible. If so his origin is from Asia-Minor, and he was a Luwian king
    who ruled over the Pontus or Black Sea hence his given name since
    Leviathan means The Luwian. He was defeated by Baal Hadad, ie. Hades in
    the Baal Epic and his ships scattered over the sea. That's your Jehovah.
    It's likely, based on Snorri's identification of Asgard as Troy in
    Asia-Minor (the Bosphorus is the basis of the Bi-Frost bridge, and
    Midgard was Mygdonia or Minoan Greece), that he was worshipped by the
    Vikings ie. Varangians or Phrygians as Odin


    Yahweh you mean?


    No I mean Jehovah. The correct pronunciation is recorded in the Egyptian transliteration of the name of Meruserenre Yakubher.

    There is also a Yakobaam Sekkhaenre who may be the same Pharaoh as
    Meruserenre Yakubher or more likely Jehovah the grandson of Zeus-Belus
    ie. Dushara or Teshub.

    The WH in the name of Jehovah is therefore a corruption of the word
    Baal. YHWH therefore means "I am Baal" or "I am the Lord" which is the
    name Jehovah gives to Moses when he asks for his name. This translates
    to "On" or "The One" in the Greek text of the Bible which is equivalent
    to Ktes in Egyptian, meaning that the god of Moses was the Pharaoh
    Setnakte also known as Proteus or Ktes (The One) to the Greeks as stated
    by Diodorus. This places the Exodus at the same time as the Trojan War.
    We already know this from the Inscription of Merneptah (Amenophis in
    Manetho) which names Israel as one of the peoples expelled from Egypt
    when a Trojan lead alliance of Sea Peoples invaded Egypt, as confirmed
    by Herodotus at the time of Proteus who Herodotus states controlled
    Egypt at this time. According to Manetho the Jews were expelled from
    Egypt by an alliance between Amenophis (Merneptah), his son Seti, and
    the king of Aethiopia, ie. Proteus (Setnakte). The Aethiopian kings list
    for this period also confirms their successive rule and the expulsion of
    an Ahmoses (ie. Moses) from Egypt by Proteus (Setnakte) at this time as
    also stated by Diodorus.

    Amenophis or Merneptah is also known by his full name
    Merneptah-hotphi(r)mae which means he is the Tithonus of Homer,
    Aktisanes of Diodorus, and the Petissonius referred to as ruling Egypt
    in the same sequence in the account of the Coptic Christian Bishop John
    Nikiu.

    That means Zeus was Sheshi (Saasitepis ie. Ausstaeb/Istaveon in Linear A
    inscriptions found in Crete from between 1700 and 1650 BC), Poseidon was
    Odin or Jehovah (Meruserenre Yakubher, who ruled Egypt in ~1675 BC), and
    Baal-Hadad was the basis for Hades and the Jewish god Adonai.

    The Baal Epic dates to around 1600 BC and as confirmed by Philo and
    Porphyry following Sanchiniathon was written close to the time the
    events that it describes occurred.

    This is where all the Indo-European and Hebrew religions come from.

    They're all based on the Hyksos (Foreign Rulers) 15th Dynasty rule of
    Egypt between 1750 and 1600 BC.

    It's pretty obvious really once you know the literature and chronology.




    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 05:34:50 2026
    On 06/08/2026 03:06, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/5/2026 2:01 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 13:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt
    <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots.
    People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal
    hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    They did nothing of the kind. We know exactly where the Greek and
    Egyptian gods came from because Herodotus and other writers tell us.
    They were the biological ancestors (mathematically proven) of the
    people who worshipped them. All recorded ancient religions were
    ancestor cults. We can even date the exact time at which these gods
    lived as historical kings of the people who made them into gods
    because of the benefits they gave to them. All the Greek gods date to
    around 1700 BC according to the Chronicon. They were basically Minoan
    period kings that ruled over Greece and Phoenicia (Philo, Porphyry,
    Sanchuniathon). The Egyptian gods were the direct ancestors of the
    Pharaoh?s who preceded the first Pharaoh Min (Herodotus citing the
    Egyptians and witnessing the bodies of the Pharaohs back to the time
    of Min himself).

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. If you >>> read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much like >>> what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not
    omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an

    The Jewish god is the personification of the Pharaoh of Egypt who
    controlled Syria-Palestine and demanded tribute from the people who
    lived there. He even told Moses his name was "On", meaning The One,
    and that translates to the Egyptian name Ktes (also named Proteus
    according to Diodorus) which means he was the Pharaoh Setnakte. Other
    Pharaohs that were turned into the god of the Jews (not all of them
    were regarded as gods when they were opposed by other Pharaohs, which
    is why the bible talks about prophets of false gods) include Ramses
    III the god of Joshua and Necho (named in the Bible) who as the Bible
    describes handed over the land of Syria-Palestine to Nebuchadnezzar
    II, as corroborated by Herodotus and the inscription of Nebuchadnezzar
    II himself.

    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come down. >>> When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're doing. >>> Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is
    only one of those gods.


    Correct. Jehovah was the son of El, the son of Baal-Shamen, the son of
    Elyon, the Most-High God to whom the Jewish temple was dedicated.
    Jehovah's brothers included Mot, Hubal (Apollo), Set/Sutekh/Suduc/
    Typhon, Shaddai, El the younger, and Dushara (Zeus Belus)

    Also among Jehovah's brothers was his possibly half-brother Baal Hadad
    who was also the basis for the Greek god Hades and later Adonis and
    thus the Hebrew god Adonai, gods of the dead. El was Kronos or Saturn
    and is testified to in Linear A inscriptions at the Cretan king Satur
    dating to around 1700 BC the same time as when El lived. Jehovah's
    name is preserved in Egyptian inscriptions from the same period as
    Meruserenre Yakubher, and this explains why the Jews worshipped the
    successive Pharaoh's of Egypt as their god.

    The Hebrew god Tsebaoth (Atlas) was the brother of El along with Dagon
    and Bartylus, and his sisters were Astarte (Aphrodite), Ashera (Rhea),
    and Baaltis (Dione/Demeter). Anat (Athena) was also a daughter of El.

    Baal-Hadad (Adonai) was the son of a concubine of Baal-Shamen that El
    gave in marriage to Dagon so all three of these people have claim to
    be his father.

    El was married to his sister Ashera who he offered as wife to Jehovah,
    Yam Nahar (River Sea, hence Pontus in Greece), or Yaw in the Baal Epic
    which explained why the Elephantine letters describe her as the wife
    of Jehovah.

    The Elohim or Gods which the book of Genesis claims created the heaven
    and the earth were the basis for the Greek Titans. They were the god
    who fought with El to depose his father Baal-Shamen as ruler, after
    which he castrated him with a sickle.

    The key to the Bible is LORD means Jehovah, GOD means El, God means
    the Elohim who are mixed up with the Holy Spirit, and Lord means
    Adonsi (Adonis/Hades/Baal-Hadad).

    OK, we've got enough evidence that this guy is Loony Tunes, and not
    to be engaged with seriously (he may be fun to tease, though).

    We've got enough evidence that you are a stupid ignorant imbecile who
    doesn't have the faintest clue or understanding about history, the
    Bible, or ancient religion.

    Get an education you deranged moron and read some history books. Real
    ones by the original authors, not modern revisionist bollocks written by degenerates with no learning or understanding and have made almost
    everything up such as complete bollocks about oral traditions when
    writing has been around for over 5000 years.

    It clear to everyone who is educated that you've not read Eusebius, Sanchuniathon, the Baal Epic, Diodorus, Herodotus, the Inscriptions of Merneptah and Ramses III, the works of Snorri Sturluson, John Nikiu,
    Jerome, or even the Bible itself, so your opinion is totally worthless
    and everything you say is a complete pile shit that has no merit whatsoever.

    Don't enter discussions where you are totally out of your depth and
    learn to respect those who are more knowledgeable and better educated
    than you are you stupid moron.


    pt



    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 06:57:43 2026
    On 06/08/2026 06:31, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <11511og$3hs4j$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 04:48, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <1150vbi$3h7j3$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 16:37, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 05:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt >>>>>> <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots. >>>>>> People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal >>>>>> hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*. >>>>>> Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. If you >>>>>> read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much like >>>>>> what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not >>>>>> omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an
    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come down. >>>>>> When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're doing. >>>>>> Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is >>>>>> only one of those gods.


    ˙˙˙˙But YHWH is the God of Storms a Zeus.Jupiter equivalent and t >>>>> ake a look at the Universe and it is full of storm-like activity.
    ˙˙˙˙Not that I think it is more than coincidence.

    Jehovah was a sea god. He is named as Yaw or Yam Nahar (Rive Sea) in the >>>> Baal Epic. His Greek equivalent was Pontus as stated by Eusebius, Philo, >>>> and Pliny. He might also be the Lotan of the Baal Epic and Leviathan of >>>> the Bible. If so his origin is from Asia-Minor, and he was a Luwian king >>>> who ruled over the Pontus or Black Sea hence his given name since
    Leviathan means The Luwian. He was defeated by Baal Hadad, ie. Hades in >>>> the Baal Epic and his ships scattered over the sea. That's your Jehovah. >>>> It's likely, based on Snorri's identification of Asgard as Troy in
    Asia-Minor (the Bosphorus is the basis of the Bi-Frost bridge, and
    Midgard was Mygdonia or Minoan Greece), that he was worshipped by the
    Vikings ie. Varangians or Phrygians as Odin


    Yahweh you mean?


    No I mean Jehovah. The correct pronunciation is recorded in the Egyptian
    transliteration of the name of Meruserenre Yakubher.

    There is also a Yakobaam Sekkhaenre who may be the same Pharaoh as
    Meruserenre Yakubher or more likely Jehovah the grandson of Zeus-Belus
    ie. Dushara or Teshub.

    The WH in the name of Jehovah is therefore a corruption of the word
    Baal. YHWH therefore means "I am Baal" or "I am the Lord" which is the
    name Jehovah gives to Moses when he asks for his name. This translates
    to "On" or "The One" in the Greek text of the Bible which is equivalent
    to Ktes in Egyptian, meaning that the god of Moses was the Pharaoh
    Setnakte also known as Proteus or Ktes (The One) to the Greeks as stated
    by Diodorus. This places the Exodus at the same time as the Trojan War.
    We already know this from the Inscription of Merneptah (Amenophis in
    Manetho) which names Israel as one of the peoples expelled from Egypt
    when a Trojan lead alliance of Sea Peoples invaded Egypt, as confirmed
    by Herodotus at the time of Proteus who Herodotus states controlled
    Egypt at this time. According to Manetho the Jews were expelled from
    Egypt by an alliance between Amenophis (Merneptah), his son Seti, and
    the king of Aethiopia, ie. Proteus (Setnakte). The Aethiopian kings list
    for this period also confirms their successive rule and the expulsion of
    an Ahmoses (ie. Moses) from Egypt by Proteus (Setnakte) at this time as
    also stated by Diodorus.

    Amenophis or Merneptah is also known by his full name
    Merneptah-hotphi(r)mae which means he is the Tithonus of Homer,
    Aktisanes of Diodorus, and the Petissonius referred to as ruling Egypt
    in the same sequence in the account of the Coptic Christian Bishop John
    Nikiu.


    What about in the Hebrew?


    What about what in the Hebrew?

    That means Zeus was Sheshi (Saasitepis ie. Ausstaeb/Istaveon in Linear A >>>> inscriptions found in Crete from between 1700 and 1650 BC), Poseidon was >>>> Odin or Jehovah (Meruserenre Yakubher, who ruled Egypt in ~1675 BC), and >>>> Baal-Hadad was the basis for Hades and the Jewish god Adonai.

    The Baal Epic dates to around 1600 BC and as confirmed by Philo and
    Porphyry following Sanchiniathon was written close to the time the
    events that it describes occurred.

    This is where all the Indo-European and Hebrew religions come from.

    They're all based on the Hyksos (Foreign Rulers) 15th Dynasty rule of
    Egypt between 1750 and 1600 BC.

    It's pretty obvious really once you know the literature and chronology. >>>>



    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 19:19:21 2026
    On 06/08/2026 16:34, The True Doctor wrote:
    It clear to everyone who is educated that you've not read Eusebius, Sanchuniathon, the Baal Epic, Diodorus, Herodotus, the Inscriptions of Merneptah and Ramses III, the works of Snorri Sturluson, John Nikiu,
    Jerome, or even the Bible itself, so your opinion is totally worthless
    and everything you say is a complete pile shit that has no merit
    whatsoever.

    Thank you for apparently being on topic. Please refresh my memory as I
    can't remember any of your above mentioned authors winning HUGOs or even nominations.
    (P.S. Are you claiming that some piles of shit do have merit?)

    Don't enter discussions where you are totally out of your depth and
    learn to respect those who are more knowledgeable and better educated
    than you are you stupid moron.

    As a moron myself, I would just like to say that sometimes for the most
    stupid of us, it can be difficult to recognise those who are more
    knowledgeable and better educated.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 08:45:48 2026
    On 06/08/2026 03:02, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/5/2026 2:57 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 18:58, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/5/2026 1:25 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 16:50, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 06:39, Blueshirt wrote:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message: >>>>>>>> The True Melissa wrote:

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all
    any of them are... made-up money making machines to part
    fools from their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit
    up.

    I don't know about that.

    Deffo!

    The old religions probably had deeper roots.

    Old or new, all made up and believed in by delusional people
    with nothing better to do with their time.

    People have hypothesized everything from fertility
    cults to archetypal hero worship to hallucinations, but surely
    it was based on something.˙ Why else would anyone else even
    believe anything as superficially unlikely?

    The problem is people all over the world believe in a swathe of
    different gods. They can't all be real, can they? So by
    definition some of those religions have to be wrong... at least.
    So who gets to decide who worships the real god(s) and who are
    the fools worshipping fake gods?

    ˙˙˙˙˙Well why not multiple Gods? Humans invented specialized roles
    for workers as soon as they had enough language to

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years, by
    many different people... then translated, mistranslated,
    revised, translated again to another different language, edited
    by church elders (with agendas), tidied up by scholars, revised
    again with improved translations and now in 2026 are nothing
    more than fantasy tales for the simple folk to believe in.

    ˙˙˙˙˙Actually before writing they were passed down orally. That

    That is PURE BOLLOCKS!

    Even Parry himself, the inventor of this stupid nonsense of "oral
    traditions" said in his papers that the oral poets WROTE EVERYTHING
    DOWN after they had composed it, otherwise how could they possibly
    remember any of it? How could Parry even verify the it was a
    "tradition" otherwise? He even concluded at the start of his
    doctoral thesis that he wouldn't possible do so, it was all
    speculation.

    NO ONE can possibly compose, not one, but two poems consisting of
    15,000 and 12,000 verses of hexameter each in a dialect NO ONE spoke
    400 years later at the time of Herodotus who spoke the closest
    living descendent of Homeric Greek, without the use of writing, let
    alone have passed it on in that now extinct dialect. PERIOD! Even
    Parry accepted from the very beginning that the Iliad and the
    Odyssey were written down and that is why they remained unchained
    for 400 years even until the time of Herodotus who was able to
    verify the age of these works by comparing them with literature
    which came after them which could be precisely dated and whose
    dialects were clearly older than that of Herodotus but more recent
    than Homer. Parry himself stated that oral poetry must necessarily
    undergo substantial change by every oral poet who acquires it and
    retells it in his own way. Parry stated that this poetry was passed
    down IN WRITING not orally, was then changed during performance and
    then written down immediately afterwards. WRITTEN DOWN!

    Parry's only substantiated claim was that oral poets used stock
    phrases in their composition. And how did Parry substantiate this?
    Because those stock phrases had already been written down in writing
    beforehand, before they were learned by the oral poets. To Parry who
    invented this BULLSHIT, oral tradition emerged from an existing
    written tradition through corruption of the original literature and
    the creation of new literature.

    There is NO SUCH THING as Oral Tradition. What parry was writing
    about was Composition Through Oral Performance, which he admitted
    could not even be proven to be a tradition and which was facilitated
    by the use of writing.

    Can we drop the expletives?

    Memorizing epic poems is something people really do.

    They do nothing of the kind unless they have written texts to follow,
    no different to memorising Shakespeare which is even longer than your
    example, and they don't memorise them in extinct delicts nobody even
    speaks.


    Today, you can find 'oral repositories' in many pre-literate cultures
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oral_repositories

    ALL OF WHICH IS PURE BOLLCOCKS.

    Even Parry said the oral poets wrote everything down and assumes a
    pre- existant written culture pretended them. Only a totally and utter
    imbecile would assume the absence of writing, especially when it has
    existed for over 5000 years, and there's absolutely NOTHING, no
    poetry, no history, zitto, NOTHING, that exists before that. NOTHING!


    That includes people who know the longest poem in the world, the
    Epic of Manas, 20 times the length of the Odyssey and Iliad. There
    are people who can recite this today. They exist.

    That is also PURE BULLEXCREMENT. The length of the poem is of the
    PUBLISHED WRITTEN TEXT. NO ONE has memorised to full text, even after
    it was made up and written down.

    It's rare to see to pure a case of Proof by Vigorous Assertion.

    Please provide evidence, or shut up.

    pt



    I've provided all the the evidence you need.

    Read Parry's doctoral thesis and papers. Not even he made the stupid and ignorant and uneducated assertions that you have made.

    Oral traditions are PURE BULLSHIT!!!

    Parry stated orally composed poetry WAS NECESSARILY WRITTEN DOWN.
    Anything otherwise would have invalidated his research since he would
    have NEVER been able to confirm it even existed since by Parry's own definition oral composition was ALWAYS changed by succeeding poets for
    it to be part of a tradition (read his fucking thesis), otherwise it
    could not be called oral poetry. Do you get it? Oral poetry must ALWAYS CHANGE. Do you understand that or are you totally stupid?

    There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that Homer composed his works by any
    means other than using writing. Doing so orally is IMPOSSIBLE and
    suggesting that it was is beyond all reason! If you claim otherwise, YOU
    have to prove it, not me. Only a total imbecile would claim that Homer
    created two 12,000+ verse poems and passed them on without change in a
    dialect no one else even spoke. Homer's work did not change and
    therefore by Parry's own definition it is not oral poetry or an oral tradition.

    Homer preserved his work in writing in a dialect that is 400 years older
    than the dialect spoken by Herodotus which is its closest successor. I
    don't need to prove that. It is a given undisputed fact stated by EVERY
    SINGLE ancient historian (look for the dates in the Chronicon and Parian Callander). You have to prove otherwise and only a totally stupid
    individual, a totally ignorant uneducated imbecile, would even remotely suggest that Homer passed his work on orally when WRITING EXISTED IN
    ANCIENT GREECE SINCE 1900 BC AND NEVER DIED OUT.

    The Greek alphabet was in used throughout Greece since at least 1200 BC
    as is stated by Pliny in his Natural History. If you dispute that claim
    then YOU not me have to prove it. The alphabet was brought to Greece by
    Cadmus in 1430 BC the year in which he founded Thebes as is stated in
    the Chronicon (Jerome's Latin translation of the original Greek by
    Eusebius). If you dispute that then YOU have to prove that the most
    copied text from antiquity says otherwise. It doesn't.

    ONLY A STUPID AND IGNORANT TOTAL AND UTTER IMBECILE would dare to
    suggest that in a society and culture that possessed writing for almost
    a millennium before Homer that he composed his works works orally
    without its use, and ONLY AN EVEN GREATER IMBECILE would dare to suggest
    that they were transmitted in any manner other than the use of WRITING
    in a dialect that not even Herodotus spoke 400 years later. Even the
    original accounts of the Trojan War were written down. We know that from
    book 2 of Herodotus' Histories since he verified the accounts from
    Egyptian records which from his description included the Merneptah Stela
    and the inscription and mural of Ramses III concerning the Sea Peoples
    named in the text as Achaeans and Teukrians from Cyprus.

    We also know about these events and what preceded them from Hittite
    texts which even name Odysseus (Attarsiya) as an Archean (Ahhiya)
    warlord who raided Asia-Minor during the reign of Arnuvanda III (c.1200
    BC) who was succeed by Suppiluliama II who forms the historical basis
    for Priam ({Su}Ppiruriama = Priam). If you dispute that YOU have to
    prove otherwise. The texts naming these people are readily available.

    We also have a record of every winner of the ancient Olympic Games
    dating from 776 BC (Eusebius' Chronicon). ONLY A TOTALLY AND OTHER MORON
    would dare to suggest that these were not written down. Homer wrote his
    works over a century before that. Wring simply didn't appear out of
    nowhere. The Proto-Siniatic script from which the Greek alphabet derives
    was developed in Egypt from 1900 BC as a way of writing the Phoenician language and by 1430 BC it had reached Greece and was in use throughout
    the Greek world by no later then 1200 BC.

    Those are the HISTORICAL FACTS!

    They are 100% UNDISPUTED and UNDISPUTABLE.

    Anything contrary to them is PURE FICTION!

    I only quote FACTS and REAL HISTORY!

    If you believe anything different then you are an IGNORANT FOOL!

    END OF DISCUSSION!

    You are totally out of your depth on this subject. You have been warned. Either accept that others know more than you do and have read every
    primary historical source on the subject and their word is superior to
    yours since you know nothing, or else quit. Prove that you know these
    texts better than I do. I have no patience for fools.

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 10:44:19 2026
    The True Doctor wrote:

    On 05/08/2026 14:39, Blueshirt wrote:

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years,
    by many different people... then translated, mistranslated,
    revised, translated again to another different language,
    edited by church elders (with agendas), tidied up by
    scholars, revised again with improved translations and now
    in 2026 are nothing more than fantasy tales for the simple
    folk to believe in.

    Absolute poppycock. If you are referring to the Bible, it was
    written in Hebrew based on Egyptian, Hittite,
    Assyro-Babylonian, Phoenician, Greek, and Jewish historical
    texts from the periods that it covers.

    Just because something is written down doesn't mean it is
    factual... I can write down a ton of crazy ideas, leave it for
    people in the future to be amazed at, yet it will still be a
    load of made-up nonsense.

    However, even accepting that the bible is based on ancient
    historical events - and they were documented accurately - with
    the amount of corruptions and exaggerations that have taken
    place with those stories over the centuries, (Including errors
    with the textual transmission and revisions that served theological/institutional interests.) the sheeple who follow the
    various branches of Christianity today are generally
    unknowledgeable about the primary sources of those ancient tales.
    So what they are left with today, on face value, is basically a
    book of fantasy tales and well meaning fables.

    The bible is a propaganda tool for the Christian religion to
    enrich itself with and the people running the various factions
    within it. L. Ron Hubbard knew what he was doing creating his
    own religion. People are generally simple and gullible. The
    weaknesses within their minds crave for something to follow and
    be a part of... and they will happily part with their money for
    that sense of belonging.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 09:18:32 2026
    On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 13:58:37 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 8/5/2026 1:25 PM, The True Doctor wrote:

    <snippo, this is getting excessively weird>

    Can we drop the expletives?

    Sadly, something seems to have triggered fear of a threat to a deeply
    held religious belief (in this case, the belief that everything was
    written down immediately by its author [1]).

    Memorizing epic poems is something people really do.

    Today, you can find 'oral repositories' in many pre-literate cultures >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oral_repositories

    That includes people who know the longest poem in the world, the
    Epic of Manas, 20 times the length of the Odyssey and Iliad. There
    are people who can recite this today. They exist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Manas

    Not, perhaps, entirely on topic (as I said, the prior discussion is
    confusing) but, in /Old Testament Theology, Gerhard von Radt has a
    chart tracing the development of the OT (this is, of course, from the perspective of Modern Scholarship) from the original oral traditions
    through various phases of collecting them and writing them down, and
    then finally producing an early version of the OT we have today.

    Closer to being on-topic are the claims that Aristotle's books and the
    Homeric poems were, indeed, reduced to writing from their oral form.
    These claims were written as if we have written proof from
    way-back-when -- ie, that some ancient author recorded the process for
    us.

    As to alleged memory problems -- I have read assertions that Homer was
    so popular that audiences memorized the poems and shouted out
    corrections if the bard messed up.

    And, lastly, there is a theory that human culture began when people
    started living long enough to make themselves useful (and so entitled
    to food) by caring for the kiddies. And how do you keep the kids out
    of the adult's hair? By telling them stories, some of which the Grimms
    may well have collected.

    [1] That isn't even true in music. I have CD set of Harpsichord works
    by one of the Scarlatti's that exists because his patron paid him to
    play his works in front of a skilled scribe who recorded the notes.
    The composer, himself, never wrote any of his music down. There are
    quite a lot of them, BTW. Imagine being able to write down the notes
    from hearing the music. The things people could do before technology
    took over!
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 09:26:23 2026
    On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 22:02:16 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 8/5/2026 2:57 PM, The True Doctor wrote:

    <snippo nonsense>

    It's rare to see to pure a case of Proof by Vigorous Assertion.

    And yet all you have to do is read the pamphlets and books put out
    during the Reformation to find the same sort of behavior (including
    worse invective).

    Of course, /they/ had an excuse: it was just How It Was Done. It was,
    IOW, a /style/. The (Allegedly) True Doctor, OTOH, has no excuse.

    The actual arguments are reminiscent of those used by Highly Educated
    Persons Who Just Knew How Things Were to "prove" that not only the
    Bible (a favorite target in many contexts) but also Homer and his
    poems and, indeed, all of Mycenean Greece never existed. This
    movement, of course, ran aground when Schlieman dug Troy up in Turkey.
    Followed by Mycenae and Knossos.

    As I said before: deeply held religious belief.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 09:29:14 2026
    On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 11:20:07 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    The Hebrews might disagree but it means nothing. The real matter is who

    profits by the sacrifices and it is the priestly classes. which
    in the case of the ancient Jews were hereditary positions.

    Ah. You cite Ayn Rand.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 18:19:17 2026
    On 06/08/2026 11:44, Blueshirt wrote:
    The True Doctor wrote:

    On 05/08/2026 14:39, Blueshirt wrote:

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years,
    by many different people... then translated, mistranslated,
    revised, translated again to another different language,
    edited by church elders (with agendas), tidied up by
    scholars, revised again with improved translations and now
    in 2026 are nothing more than fantasy tales for the simple
    folk to believe in.

    Absolute poppycock. If you are referring to the Bible, it was
    written in Hebrew based on Egyptian, Hittite,
    Assyro-Babylonian, Phoenician, Greek, and Jewish historical
    texts from the periods that it covers.

    Just because something is written down doesn't mean it is
    factual... I can write down a ton of crazy ideas, leave it for
    people in the future to be amazed at, yet it will still be a
    load of made-up nonsense.

    Just because there are stupid people today who are allowed to go and
    write anything they want whenever they want doesn't mean this happened
    in the past when writing cost a fortune in materials to accomplish and
    to preserve it and even bigger fortune which would have been
    astronomical. Only an imbecile would transpose today's values and ides
    to the past.

    No one is going to commission and preserve a work of fiction for
    thousands of years and not mark it as fiction for the purposes of entertainment. The Bible and other religious texts are not marked as
    fiction. They are clearly referenced as mythological HISTORY.

    If someone decided to turn the mythology into drama then it was called
    drama and the dramatic additions made clear, but it was still based on
    factual historical events and everyone knew exactly how they were
    adapted and what was originally said. Read Eusebius (Preparation of the Gospel) describing how Sanchuniathon possessed the original texts that
    all Phoenician religion was based on and how it was created and evolved
    by elevating the tyrants that ruled over the Phoenicians into the status
    of gods even in their own life times. These are described as historical
    facts not made up nonsense. Just because some people are too stupid or
    too ignorant to understand them doesn't mean that others are as stupid
    and as ignorant and as uneducated as these stupid persons might be.


    However, even accepting that the bible is based on ancient
    historical events - and they were documented accurately - with
    the amount of corruptions and exaggerations that have taken
    place with those stories over the centuries, (Including errors
    with the textual transmission and revisions that served theological/institutional interests.) the sheeple who follow the
    various branches of Christianity today are generally
    unknowledgeable about the primary sources of those ancient tales.

    The stupids clearly know nothing. This does not mean that everyone is as stupid as they are.

    So what they are left with today, on face value, is basically a
    book of fantasy tales and well meaning fables.

    No. Fantasy is not mythology and mythology is not fantasy. Mythology is
    based on real history and the identities of the historical facts,
    people, and events are preserved. These can easily be traced back and deconvolved. Fantasy is totally made up people, places, and events.

    Robert E. Howard stated that the reason he created Conan was that with
    fantasy he did not have to spend considerable amounts of time
    researching historical people, places, periods, cultures, and events to
    make everything accurate, and could therefore get on with the writing
    much faster by creating everything himself as he didn't have to stick to
    the facts.


    The bible is a propaganda tool for the Christian religion to
    enrich itself with and the people running the various factions
    within it. L. Ron Hubbard knew what he was doing creating his
    own religion. People are generally simple and gullible. The

    L. Ron Hubbard only turned Scientology into a religion because he was
    forced to do so by the authorities which wanted to regulate it as a
    medical product or service. The only way he could avoid being shut down
    for making unfounded scientific and medical claims was to declare
    Scientology to be a religion and thus get official protection from state regulation. He could sell his sensitive galvanometers for hundreds or thousands of dollars as religious artefacts without having to prove that
    they could detect your thoughts or emotions. It was all declared to be
    based on faith rather than science. As an added bonus he didn't even
    have to pay any sales tax or tax on his profits since religions were
    given charitable status. Those are the facts.

    weaknesses within their minds crave for something to follow and
    be a part of... and they will happily part with their money for
    that sense of belonging.

    The US authorities led by a bunch of pissed of psychiatrist and psychotherapists whose business L. Ron Hubbard took away were the ones
    who turned Scientology into a religion. The only business L. Ron Hubbard
    was engaged in was in selling sensitive galvanometers and teaching
    materials at overinflated prices. He never intended it to be a religion
    until he was forced into turning his business into one, and the stupids followed him even more fanatically as a result.

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 10:43:48 2026
    On 8/6/26 00:19, Titus G wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 16:34, The True Doctor wrote:
    It clear to everyone who is educated that you've not read Eusebius,
    Sanchuniathon, the Baal Epic, Diodorus, Herodotus, the Inscriptions of
    Merneptah and Ramses III, the works of Snorri Sturluson, John Nikiu,
    Jerome, or even the Bible itself, so your opinion is totally worthless
    and everything you say is a complete pile shit that has no merit
    whatsoever.

    Thank you for apparently being on topic. Please refresh my memory as I
    can't remember any of your above mentioned authors winning HUGOs or even nominations.
    (P.S. Are you claiming that some piles of shit do have merit?)

    Don't enter discussions where you are totally out of your depth and
    learn to respect those who are more knowledgeable and better educated
    than you are you stupid moron.

    As a moron myself, I would just like to say that sometimes for the most stupid of us, it can be difficult to recognise those who are more knowledgeable and better educated.


    Some piles of shit are better than other piles of shit and I think that
    some shit is really good shit. Maybe that is a quote from
    the comedian, George Carlin.

    Personally I have studied the Bible in 3 Protestant Sunday
    Schools in the 1940s and in a Catholic High School in the 1950s
    but my mother and I really cracked up over some of the lives of
    alleged Saints. We also liked "Pogo (the thoughtful) Possum" by
    old Walt Kelly, especially during the McCarthy Era.

    Some piles of shit are really funnier than other piles
    of excrement.

    bliss - by study, practice and experience

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 10:45:11 2026
    On 8/6/26 09:29, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 11:20:07 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    The Hebrews might disagree but it means nothing. The real matter is who >> profits by the sacrifices and it is the priestly classes. which
    in the case of the ancient Jews were hereditary positions.

    Ah. You cite Ayn Rand.

    No I cite my reading of the scriptures and commentaries by various thoughtful people.

    bliss


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 13:58:04 2026
    On 8/6/2026 12:34 AM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 03:06, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/5/2026 2:01 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 13:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt
    <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots.
    People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal >>>> hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*. >>>> Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    They did nothing of the kind. We know exactly where the Greek and
    Egyptian gods came from because Herodotus and other writers tell us.
    They were the biological ancestors (mathematically proven) of the
    people who worshipped them. All recorded ancient religions were
    ancestor cults. We can even date the exact time at which these gods
    lived as historical kings of the people who made them into gods
    because of the benefits they gave to them. All the Greek gods date to
    around 1700 BC according to the Chronicon. They were basically Minoan
    period kings that ruled over Greece and Phoenicia (Philo, Porphyry,
    Sanchuniathon). The Egyptian gods were the direct ancestors of the
    Pharaoh?s who preceded the first Pharaoh Min (Herodotus citing the
    Egyptians and witnessing the bodies of the Pharaohs back to the time
    of Min himself).

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. If
    you
    read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much
    like
    what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not >>>> omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an

    The Jewish god is the personification of the Pharaoh of Egypt who
    controlled Syria-Palestine and demanded tribute from the people who
    lived there. He even told Moses his name was "On", meaning The One,
    and that translates to the Egyptian name Ktes (also named Proteus
    according to Diodorus) which means he was the Pharaoh Setnakte. Other
    Pharaohs that were turned into the god of the Jews (not all of them
    were regarded as gods when they were opposed by other Pharaohs, which
    is why the bible talks about prophets of false gods) include Ramses
    III the god of Joshua and Necho (named in the Bible) who as the Bible
    describes handed over the land of Syria-Palestine to Nebuchadnezzar
    II, as corroborated by Herodotus and the inscription of
    Nebuchadnezzar II himself.

    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come
    down.
    When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're
    doing.
    Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is
    only one of those gods.


    Correct. Jehovah was the son of El, the son of Baal-Shamen, the son
    of Elyon, the Most-High God to whom the Jewish temple was dedicated.
    Jehovah's brothers included Mot, Hubal (Apollo), Set/Sutekh/Suduc/
    Typhon, Shaddai, El the younger, and Dushara (Zeus Belus)

    Also among Jehovah's brothers was his possibly half-brother Baal
    Hadad who was also the basis for the Greek god Hades and later Adonis
    and thus the Hebrew god Adonai, gods of the dead. El was Kronos or
    Saturn and is testified to in Linear A inscriptions at the Cretan
    king Satur dating to around 1700 BC the same time as when El lived.
    Jehovah's name is preserved in Egyptian inscriptions from the same
    period as Meruserenre Yakubher, and this explains why the Jews
    worshipped the successive Pharaoh's of Egypt as their god.

    The Hebrew god Tsebaoth (Atlas) was the brother of El along with
    Dagon and Bartylus, and his sisters were Astarte (Aphrodite), Ashera
    (Rhea), and Baaltis (Dione/Demeter). Anat (Athena) was also a
    daughter of El.

    Baal-Hadad (Adonai) was the son of a concubine of Baal-Shamen that El
    gave in marriage to Dagon so all three of these people have claim to
    be his father.

    El was married to his sister Ashera who he offered as wife to
    Jehovah, Yam Nahar (River Sea, hence Pontus in Greece), or Yaw in the
    Baal Epic which explained why the Elephantine letters describe her as
    the wife of Jehovah.

    The Elohim or Gods which the book of Genesis claims created the
    heaven and the earth were the basis for the Greek Titans. They were
    the god who fought with El to depose his father Baal-Shamen as ruler,
    after which he castrated him with a sickle.

    The key to the Bible is LORD means Jehovah, GOD means El, God means
    the Elohim who are mixed up with the Holy Spirit, and Lord means
    Adonsi (Adonis/Hades/Baal-Hadad).

    OK, we've got enough evidence that this guy is Loony Tunes, and not
    to be engaged with seriously (he may be fun to tease, though).

    We've got enough evidence that you are a stupid ignorant imbecile who doesn't have the faintest clue or understanding about history, the
    Bible, or ancient religion.

    I'll simply ask you to provide checkable references to your claim
    that Parry said the Homeric poems were composed in written form.

    It doesn't seem consistent with what I know of him.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 20:55:33 2026
    On 06/08/2026 17:18, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 13:58:37 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 8/5/2026 1:25 PM, The True Doctor wrote:

    <snippo, this is getting excessively weird>

    Can we drop the expletives?

    Sadly, something seems to have triggered fear of a threat to a deeply
    held religious belief (in this case, the belief that everything was
    written down immediately by its author [1]).

    And yet another clueless imbecile who is totally out of his depth and
    ignores all the warnings not to expose his complete and utter stupidity forcing me to waste even more of my time explaining to him why he is
    totally wrong and knows absolutely nothing. That's the reason for the
    fucking expletives. Instead of accepting a greater authority who has
    proven that he read and knows more than him on the subject he parrots
    out the same unfounded BULLSHIT ad nausium in order to fool the most
    gullible and the stupid because he's even stupider than they are.
    >> Memorizing epic poems is something people really do.

    Today, you can find 'oral repositories' in many pre-literate cultures
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oral_repositories

    That includes people who know the longest poem in the world, the
    Epic of Manas, 20 times the length of the Odyssey and Iliad. There
    are people who can recite this today. They exist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Manas

    Not, perhaps, entirely on topic (as I said, the prior discussion is confusing) but, in /Old Testament Theology, Gerhard von Radt has a
    chart tracing the development of the OT (this is, of course, from the perspective of Modern Scholarship) from the original oral traditions

    More ignorant BOLLOCKS. Anyone who refers to oral traditions which all
    studies have shown not to be capable of transmitting information
    unchanged, and by definition (see Parry) can't, is a CLUELESS IMBECILIC BRAINWASHED FOOL that knows nothing about history or how it was
    recorded. Read Parry's fucking doctoral thesis and papers you fucking
    ignorant moron and stop spreading fallacies which have no scientific foundation or validity whatsoever. You don't even know what an oral
    tradition actually is and yet you parrot out your BULLSHIT over and over
    again as if they existed without the existence of writing. Parry if you fucking read him said ALL oral poetry was written down by necessity. And
    yet ignorant morons such as yourself try to give the opposite impression contrary to why the individual who came up with his nonsense which he
    accepted was unprovable (read the fucking thesis) said himself.

    through various phases of collecting them and writing them down, and
    then finally producing an early version of the OT we have today.

    WRONG! The Bible was constructed from written histories. We already know
    where this history came from because it was fucking WRITTEN DOWN by the Egyptians, the Assyro-Babylonians, the Persians, and the ancient Greeks
    and can be cross-referenced and verified. Even Josephus was able to
    verify the Exodus depicted a historical event which was recorded by
    Manetho in his history of Egypt and which we know today was in reference
    to the invasion of Egypt by foreign invaders in the reign of Merneptah (Amenophis) an their eventual expulsion including the tribe of Israel
    itself as named in the Mesha Stela.

    How can anyone in their right mind claim that the OT was composed by
    oral poets when they had historical texts to follow?

    First apart from the Psalms there is no poetry in it at all. Therefore
    from Parry BY DEFINITION it is NOT an oral tradition. Have you read
    Parry? Stop there. You need not go any further, unless you're a complete
    and utter fucking moron.

    Second the Hebrew/Phoenician alphabet has existed without interruption
    since it was developed in 1900 BC. Before this alphabet Phoenician is
    recorded as being written in cuneiform. Why would the Jews not have
    written their history down when they had access to writing without interruption for the entire period of history the Bible covers, namely
    from 1800 BC onwards. Do not try to dispute that figure by claiming Adam
    lived for hundreds of years because you will show everyone here that you
    are an event bigger ignorant fucking fool than they originally imagined. Adam's years are counted in lunar months. Read Pliny's Natural History
    which shows this to be true or perform a linear regression of historical events listed in the Bible (which can all be cross referenced against Assyro-Bablylonian, Egyptian, Persian, and Greco-Roman history) against biblical generations and extrapolate the date for Adam mathematically.

    Closer to being on-topic are the claims that Aristotle's books and the Homeric poems were, indeed, reduced to writing from their oral form.

    They were ALWAYS recorded in written form from the moment they were
    composed and Aristotle doesn't dispute this or say anything to
    contradict it. Stop spreading LIES concerning what he said. Reference
    the exact quote or else withdraw your invalid claim. ALL Ancient
    historians are united in stating that ALL of Homer's works were composed
    and passed on in writing.

    Read Plutarch's biography of Lycurgus you fucking ignorant clueless
    imbecile. Lycurgus brought back the works of Homer to Sparta in 868 BC
    (400 years before Herodotus) from the posterity of Creophylus the
    student of Homer. This implies that both Creophylus and Homer were dead.
    How can you Lycurgus have brought those works to Sparta in anything but written from when both Homer and his student who his passed his works to
    were DEAD? How could Lycurgus learn oral poetry from a DEAD MAN? Come on explain this to me... HOW? YOU FUCKING IGNORANT NARROW MINDED FOOL.

    How else could these works be passed down in a dialect which ALL studies
    show was no longer spoken after 800 BC and which Herodotus know was 400
    years older than when he wrote his histories because he spoke it's
    closest successor? STOP PROVING YOUR FUCKING IGNORANCE AND TOTAL
    STUPIDITY AND STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE BY PERPETUATING A PACK OF FUCKING DOWNRIGHT LIES.

    Do you want to tell me that the life story of Sparta's lawgiver
    Lycurgus, and the laws he created for Sparta before the advent of the Olympiads, were transmitted by oral tradition too, through oral poetry
    instead of being written down? ARE YOU TOTALLY STUPID?

    Are you now going to dispute the dating of the time of Lycurgus which
    both Herodotus and the Chronicon place at the date at which I sate above?

    Do you want to dispute these dates? I dare you. Do you think that you
    know more about ancient history than the ancients did themselves?

    Quote from the Chronicon, "819 BC: Lycurgus codifies the laws for the Lacedaemonians. (Procas Sylvius) The son of Aventinus the previous king
    [of Latium]."

    Do you understand what that means? Lycurgus lived in 819 BC. Homer lived
    two generations before him. What do you think the word 'codifies' means?
    Does it mean Lycurgus decided to compose an oral poem, which by
    definition was subject to constant change, or that he WROTE DOWN the
    laws he created for Sparta so they could not be changed on a whim
    depending on who the courts and Ephors were putting on trial? They were written down you ignorant fool. WRITTEN DOWN so they would be immutable.

    Writing existed at the time of Homer. There is no question of doubt
    about it. The Greek Alphabet based on the Phoenician alphabet brought to Greece by Cadmus in 1430 BC was universal throughout the Greek world
    since 1200 BC as is stated by Pliny in his natural history. There is NO DISPUTE surrounding any of these facts.

    These claims were written as if we have written proof from
    way-back-when -- ie, that some ancient author recorded the process for
    us.

    Erm... I've just given you the proof. See above. The only thing that
    you've proved is your total and utter ignorance.

    Have you read The Contest Between Hesiod and Homer? No, obviously you
    haven't and most likely didn't even know that this text describing the
    origin of both Hesiod and Homer and their works even existed. The
    process is recorded. Get that into your stupid little brain. Homer
    composed the Iliad and Odyssey, in 1500 and 1200 lines respectively, in
    around 930 BC, wrote them down, passed them on to Creophylus his student
    by around about 900 BC and after Creophylus was already dead Homers
    works were passed on to Lycurgus in 868 BC, when he took them to Sparta
    and they became well known. (The Parian Calendar dates Homer to either
    908 or 880 BC for when he first appeared.)

    We can presume Lycurgus died in 819 BC when his laws and Spartan
    constitution were codified in writing so that they would not be subject
    to change by anyone that came after him. The laws were then adopted in
    796 BC (as stated in the Chronicon) according to Apllodorus.

    Do you seriously think that the Spartans sang poems about Lucurgus's
    laws for two decades after his death before adopting his laws or that on
    the contrary he put them in writing with the wish that they would adopt
    them even in his posterity? Show my how ignorant and stupid you are.

    From the Chronicon again, "764 BC: Cynaethon, the Lacedaemonian poet,
    who wrote the Telegonia, is well-known."

    Do you understand what that means? Do you know what the Telegonia is?

    The Telegonia or Telegony takes place after the Odyssey ends and tells
    of the final adventures and death of Odysseus after he returned home. Do
    you supposed that Homer could have possibly been any later than the date
    of the work he follows his own work?

    From the Chronicon again: "776 BC: From the captivity of Troy, until
    the first Olympiad, 405 years. The Elians hold a contest every fifth
    year, with four years elapsed between, in which four annual leaders are created; Iphitus, son of Praxonides or of Haemo, was the first to create
    this system of Olympiads. From this time, Greek history is believed to
    be true in the matter of dates: for before this, as it seemed to
    everyone, they have advanced different opinions."

    So the date for the composition of the Telegony by Cynaethon is
    UNDISPUTED! U-N-D-I-S-P-U-T-E-D!

    Do you think the Spartans or the Elians wrote a poem about the dating
    from the Olympiads or do you think that they wrote the fucking dates
    down and the notable events that happened during each Olympiad, which is exactly the same way that the Egyptians and Assyro-Babylonians kept
    their calendars?

    They fucking used WRITING!

    That's the history. Accept it or remain ignorant forever.


    As to alleged memory problems -- I have read assertions that Homer was
    so popular that audiences memorized the poems and shouted out
    corrections if the bard messed up.

    BOLLOCKS! There are no such assertions. NONE! They are made up by fools
    who've never read a single ancient Greek historial text and rely on the
    word of imbeciles perpetuating lies. What the Greek texts actually say,
    and I suspect that you are referring to Plato's Ion (which is not
    considered to be genuine) is that the works of Homer were WRITTEN DOWN
    and studied by school children at school, and they were so popular that
    some children were able to quote selected passages from them by memory
    after learning them from the texts. How else could the have memorised
    them? Try it completely orally, without any reference whatsoever to a
    written text you moron.

    What these boys did was no different to actors memorising the plays
    written by Euripides or Aristophanes or any other playwright by looking
    at the scripts they were given and learning the lines.


    And, lastly, there is a theory that human culture began when people
    started living long enough to make themselves useful (and so entitled
    to food) by caring for the kiddies. And how do you keep the kids out
    of the adult's hair? By telling them stories, some of which the Grimms
    may well have collected.

    There is no such theory. What was actually said by Herodotus who you
    clearly have not read, is that after people settled down and become
    farmers instead of hunting and gathering they had more time on their
    hands to study and philosophise, and as a result advanced their,
    learning, science, literature, culture and understanding.


    [1] That isn't even true in music. I have CD set of Harpsichord works
    by one of the Scarlatti's that exists because his patron paid him to
    play his works in front of a skilled scribe who recorded the notes.
    The composer, himself, never wrote any of his music down. There are
    quite a lot of them, BTW. Imagine being able to write down the notes
    from hearing the music. The things people could do before technology
    took over!

    This proves nothing. Paul McCartney can't read music notation either or
    write it down or play anything from it and nor can most people. But what
    he can do is write down the lyrics of his own songs and read them back
    again and so can any 4 year old child.

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Your Name@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 09:15:43 2026
    On 2026-08-06 10:44:19 +0000, Blueshirt said:
    The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 14:39, Blueshirt wrote:

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years, by many
    different people... then translated, mistranslated, revised, translated >>> again to another different language, edited by church elders (with
    agendas), tidied up by
    scholars, revised again with improved translations and now in 2026 are
    nothing more than fantasy tales for the simple folk to believe in.

    Absolute poppycock. If you are referring to the Bible, it was written
    in Hebrew based on Egyptian, Hittite, Assyro-Babylonian, Phoenician,
    Greek, and Jewish historical texts from the periods that it covers.

    Just because something is written down doesn't mean it is factual... I
    can write down a ton of crazy ideas, leave it for people in the future
    to be amazed at, yet it will still be a load of made-up nonsense.

    Yep. Someone idiot in the future will find a copy of Harry Potter and
    think wizards were real (some loonies today already think Harry Potter
    is real!).



    However, even accepting that the bible is based on ancient historical
    events - and they were documented accurately - with the amount of corruptions and exaggerations that have taken place with those stories
    over the centuries, (Including errors with the textual transmission and revisions that served theological/institutional interests.) the sheeple
    who follow the various branches of Christianity today are generally unknowledgeable about the primary sources of those ancient tales. So
    what they are left with today, on face value, is basically a book of
    fantasy tales and well meaning fables.

    The bible is a propaganda tool for the Christian religion to enrich
    itself with and the people running the various factions within it. L.
    Ron Hubbard knew what he was doing creating his own religion. People
    are generally simple and gullible. The weaknesses within their minds
    crave for something to follow and be a part of... and they will happily
    part with their money for that sense of belonging.

    I don't know about "happy". In the early days, people were forced to
    give up their money and land to the church. In some cases, if they
    didn't convert to whichever looney religion the "missionaries" were
    peddling, the non-believers were simply killed.





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Your Name@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 09:17:52 2026
    On 2026-08-06 17:43:48 +0000, BobbieSellers said:

    On 8/6/26 00:19, Titus G wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 16:34, The True Doctor wrote:
    It clear to everyone who is educated that you've not read Eusebius,
    Sanchuniathon, the Baal Epic, Diodorus, Herodotus, the Inscriptions of
    Merneptah and Ramses III, the works of Snorri Sturluson, John Nikiu,
    Jerome, or even the Bible itself, so your opinion is totally worthless
    and everything you say is a complete pile shit that has no merit
    whatsoever.

    Thank you for apparently being on topic. Please refresh my memory as I
    can't remember any of your above mentioned authors winning HUGOs or
    even nominations. (P.S. Are you claiming that some piles of shit do
    have merit?)

    Don't enter discussions where you are totally out of your depth and
    learn to respect those who are more knowledgeable and better educated
    than you are you stupid moron.

    As a moron myself, I would just like to say that sometimes for the most
    stupid of us, it can be difficult to recognise those who are more
    knowledgeable and better educated.

    Some piles of shit are better than other piles of shit and I think that some shit is really good shit. Maybe that is a quote from the
    comedian, George Carlin.

    "One man's crap is another man's fertiliser." is another version.

    Basically just a re-working of the saying "One' man's trash is another
    man's treasure."



    Personally I have studied the Bible in 3 Protestant Sunday Schools in the 1940s and in a Catholic High School in the 1950s but my mother and
    I really cracked up over some of the lives of alleged Saints. We also
    liked "Pogo (the thoughtful) Possum" by old Walt Kelly, especially
    during the McCarthy Era.

    Some piles of shit are really funnier than other piles of excrement.

    bliss - by study, practice and experience



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 21:22:22 2026
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2026-08-06 17:43:48 +0000, BobbieSellers said:

    On 8/6/26 00:19, Titus G wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 16:34, The True Doctor wrote:
    It clear to everyone who is educated that you've not read Eusebius,
    Sanchuniathon, the Baal Epic, Diodorus, Herodotus, the Inscriptions of >>>> Merneptah and Ramses III, the works of Snorri Sturluson, John Nikiu,
    Jerome, or even the Bible itself, so your opinion is totally worthless >>>> and everything you say is a complete pile shit that has no merit
    whatsoever.

    Thank you for apparently being on topic. Please refresh my memory as I
    can't remember any of your above mentioned authors winning HUGOs or
    even nominations. (P.S. Are you claiming that some piles of shit do
    have merit?)

    Don't enter discussions where you are totally out of your depth and
    learn to respect those who are more knowledgeable and better educated >>>> than you are you stupid moron.

    As a moron myself, I would just like to say that sometimes for the most >>> stupid of us, it can be difficult to recognise those who are more
    knowledgeable and better educated.

    Some piles of shit are better than other piles of shit and I think
    that some shit is really good shit. Maybe that is a quote from the
    comedian, George Carlin.

    "One man's crap is another man's fertiliser." is another version.

    Basically just a re-working of the saying "One' man's trash is another
    man's treasure."

    I suspect Carlin's "really good shit" is also known as Canabis.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 00:18:04 2026
    On 06/08/2026 13:32, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <11517oo$3jeii$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 06:31, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <11511og$3hs4j$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 04:48, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <1150vbi$3h7j3$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 16:37, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 05:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt >>>>>>>> <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something? >>>>>>>>>> Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any >>>>>>>>> of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from >>>>>>>>> their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots. >>>>>>>> People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal >>>>>>>> hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially >>>>>>>> unlikely?

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. If you
    read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much like
    what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not >>>>>>>> omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an >>>>>>>> ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come down.
    When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're doing.
    Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is >>>>>>>> only one of those gods.


    ˙˙˙˙But YHWH is the God of Storms a Zeus.Jupiter equivalent and t >>>>>>> ake a look at the Universe and it is full of storm-like activity. >>>>>>> ˙˙˙˙Not that I think it is more than coincidence.

    Jehovah was a sea god. He is named as Yaw or Yam Nahar (Rive Sea) in the >>>>>> Baal Epic. His Greek equivalent was Pontus as stated by Eusebius, Philo, >>>>>> and Pliny. He might also be the Lotan of the Baal Epic and Leviathan of >>>>>> the Bible. If so his origin is from Asia-Minor, and he was a Luwian king >>>>>> who ruled over the Pontus or Black Sea hence his given name since
    Leviathan means The Luwian. He was defeated by Baal Hadad, ie. Hades in >>>>>> the Baal Epic and his ships scattered over the sea. That's your Jehovah. >>>>>> It's likely, based on Snorri's identification of Asgard as Troy in >>>>>> Asia-Minor (the Bosphorus is the basis of the Bi-Frost bridge, and >>>>>> Midgard was Mygdonia or Minoan Greece), that he was worshipped by the >>>>>> Vikings ie. Varangians or Phrygians as Odin


    Yahweh you mean?


    No I mean Jehovah. The correct pronunciation is recorded in the Egyptian >>>> transliteration of the name of Meruserenre Yakubher.

    There is also a Yakobaam Sekkhaenre who may be the same Pharaoh as
    Meruserenre Yakubher or more likely Jehovah the grandson of Zeus-Belus >>>> ie. Dushara or Teshub.

    The WH in the name of Jehovah is therefore a corruption of the word
    Baal. YHWH therefore means "I am Baal" or "I am the Lord" which is the >>>> name Jehovah gives to Moses when he asks for his name. This translates >>>> to "On" or "The One" in the Greek text of the Bible which is equivalent >>>> to Ktes in Egyptian, meaning that the god of Moses was the Pharaoh
    Setnakte also known as Proteus or Ktes (The One) to the Greeks as stated >>>> by Diodorus. This places the Exodus at the same time as the Trojan War. >>>> We already know this from the Inscription of Merneptah (Amenophis in
    Manetho) which names Israel as one of the peoples expelled from Egypt
    when a Trojan lead alliance of Sea Peoples invaded Egypt, as confirmed >>>> by Herodotus at the time of Proteus who Herodotus states controlled
    Egypt at this time. According to Manetho the Jews were expelled from
    Egypt by an alliance between Amenophis (Merneptah), his son Seti, and
    the king of Aethiopia, ie. Proteus (Setnakte). The Aethiopian kings list >>>> for this period also confirms their successive rule and the expulsion of >>>> an Ahmoses (ie. Moses) from Egypt by Proteus (Setnakte) at this time as >>>> also stated by Diodorus.

    Amenophis or Merneptah is also known by his full name
    Merneptah-hotphi(r)mae which means he is the Tithonus of Homer,
    Aktisanes of Diodorus, and the Petissonius referred to as ruling Egypt >>>> in the same sequence in the account of the Coptic Christian Bishop John >>>> Nikiu.


    What about in the Hebrew?


    What about what in the Hebrew?


    For starters, El refers to of Yahweh.


    No it doesn't. El refers to El and Jehovah refers to Jehovah. Jehovah is
    the son of El, the son of Baal-Shamen, the son of Elyon the Most High.

    You've obviously never read the Bible and don't have the remotest clue
    about what it actually says.

    That means Zeus was Sheshi (Saasitepis ie. Ausstaeb/Istaveon in Linear A >>>>>> inscriptions found in Crete from between 1700 and 1650 BC), Poseidon was >>>>>> Odin or Jehovah (Meruserenre Yakubher, who ruled Egypt in ~1675 BC), and >>>>>> Baal-Hadad was the basis for Hades and the Jewish god Adonai.

    The Baal Epic dates to around 1600 BC and as confirmed by Philo and >>>>>> Porphyry following Sanchiniathon was written close to the time the >>>>>> events that it describes occurred.

    This is where all the Indo-European and Hebrew religions come from. >>>>>>
    They're all based on the Hyksos (Foreign Rulers) 15th Dynasty rule of >>>>>> Egypt between 1750 and 1600 BC.

    It's pretty obvious really once you know the literature and chronology. >>>>>>




    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 6 17:01:51 2026
    On 8/6/26 14:22, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> writes:
    On 2026-08-06 17:43:48 +0000, BobbieSellers said:

    On 8/6/26 00:19, Titus G wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 16:34, The True Doctor wrote:
    It clear to everyone who is educated that you've not read Eusebius,
    Sanchuniathon, the Baal Epic, Diodorus, Herodotus, the Inscriptions of >>>>> Merneptah and Ramses III, the works of Snorri Sturluson, John Nikiu, >>>>> Jerome, or even the Bible itself, so your opinion is totally worthless >>>>> and everything you say is a complete pile shit that has no merit
    whatsoever.

    Thank you for apparently being on topic. Please refresh my memory as I >>>> can't remember any of your above mentioned authors winning HUGOs or
    even nominations. (P.S. Are you claiming that some piles of shit do
    have merit?)

    Don't enter discussions where you are totally out of your depth and
    learn to respect those who are more knowledgeable and better educated >>>>> than you are you stupid moron.

    As a moron myself, I would just like to say that sometimes for the most >>>> stupid of us, it can be difficult to recognise those who are more
    knowledgeable and better educated.

    Some piles of shit are better than other piles of shit and I think
    that some shit is really good shit. Maybe that is a quote from the
    comedian, George Carlin.

    "One man's crap is another man's fertiliser." is another version.

    Still has to be properly composted. Cow shit and from other animals which have a vegetable diet are better than those from people
    or other omnivores. Meat eaters tend to have parasites.


    Basically just a re-working of the saying "One' man's trash is another
    man's treasure."

    I suspect Carlin's "really good shit" is also known as Canabis.

    Perhaps you attempt to refer to Cannabis Sativa or Cannabis Indica?

    Strangely enough extractions of these as well as crossbreeds of the two
    are available and in edible form, with the content of THC-Delta
    marked on the packaging. For perhaps hundreds of years somewhat
    different effect were noted from each when smoked but the effect
    of mild wakeful euphoria with Sativa carry over as do the more
    soporific effects of Indica. The hybrid strains are less
    predictable but are full of effects.

    bliss - study, practice and experience


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 01:12:35 2026
    On 06/08/2026 18:58, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/6/2026 12:34 AM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 03:06, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/5/2026 2:01 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 13:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt >>>>> <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots. >>>>> People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal >>>>> hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on
    *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    They did nothing of the kind. We know exactly where the Greek and
    Egyptian gods came from because Herodotus and other writers tell us.
    They were the biological ancestors (mathematically proven) of the
    people who worshipped them. All recorded ancient religions were
    ancestor cults. We can even date the exact time at which these gods
    lived as historical kings of the people who made them into gods
    because of the benefits they gave to them. All the Greek gods date
    to around 1700 BC according to the Chronicon. They were basically
    Minoan period kings that ruled over Greece and Phoenicia (Philo,
    Porphyry, Sanchuniathon). The Egyptian gods were the direct
    ancestors of the Pharaoh?s who preceded the first Pharaoh Min
    (Herodotus citing the Egyptians and witnessing the bodies of the
    Pharaohs back to the time of Min himself).

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though.
    If you
    read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much >>>>> like
    what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not >>>>> omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an

    The Jewish god is the personification of the Pharaoh of Egypt who
    controlled Syria-Palestine and demanded tribute from the people who
    lived there. He even told Moses his name was "On", meaning The One,
    and that translates to the Egyptian name Ktes (also named Proteus
    according to Diodorus) which means he was the Pharaoh Setnakte.
    Other Pharaohs that were turned into the god of the Jews (not all of
    them were regarded as gods when they were opposed by other Pharaohs,
    which is why the bible talks about prophets of false gods) include
    Ramses III the god of Joshua and Necho (named in the Bible) who as
    the Bible describes handed over the land of Syria-Palestine to
    Nebuchadnezzar II, as corroborated by Herodotus and the inscription
    of Nebuchadnezzar II himself.

    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come
    down.
    When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're
    doing.
    Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is >>>>> only one of those gods.


    Correct. Jehovah was the son of El, the son of Baal-Shamen, the son
    of Elyon, the Most-High God to whom the Jewish temple was dedicated.
    Jehovah's brothers included Mot, Hubal (Apollo), Set/Sutekh/Suduc/
    Typhon, Shaddai, El the younger, and Dushara (Zeus Belus)

    Also among Jehovah's brothers was his possibly half-brother Baal
    Hadad who was also the basis for the Greek god Hades and later
    Adonis and thus the Hebrew god Adonai, gods of the dead. El was
    Kronos or Saturn and is testified to in Linear A inscriptions at the
    Cretan king Satur dating to around 1700 BC the same time as when El
    lived. Jehovah's name is preserved in Egyptian inscriptions from the
    same period as Meruserenre Yakubher, and this explains why the Jews
    worshipped the successive Pharaoh's of Egypt as their god.

    The Hebrew god Tsebaoth (Atlas) was the brother of El along with
    Dagon and Bartylus, and his sisters were Astarte (Aphrodite), Ashera
    (Rhea), and Baaltis (Dione/Demeter). Anat (Athena) was also a
    daughter of El.

    Baal-Hadad (Adonai) was the son of a concubine of Baal-Shamen that
    El gave in marriage to Dagon so all three of these people have claim
    to be his father.

    El was married to his sister Ashera who he offered as wife to
    Jehovah, Yam Nahar (River Sea, hence Pontus in Greece), or Yaw in
    the Baal Epic which explained why the Elephantine letters describe
    her as the wife of Jehovah.

    The Elohim or Gods which the book of Genesis claims created the
    heaven and the earth were the basis for the Greek Titans. They were
    the god who fought with El to depose his father Baal-Shamen as
    ruler, after which he castrated him with a sickle.

    The key to the Bible is LORD means Jehovah, GOD means El, God means
    the Elohim who are mixed up with the Holy Spirit, and Lord means
    Adonsi (Adonis/Hades/Baal-Hadad).

    OK, we've got enough evidence that this guy is Loony Tunes, and not
    to be engaged with seriously (he may be fun to tease, though).

    We've got enough evidence that you are a stupid ignorant imbecile who
    doesn't have the faintest clue or understanding about history, the
    Bible, or ancient religion.

    I'll simply ask you to provide checkable references to your claim
    that Parry said the Homeric poems were composed in written form.


    Parry said that ALL of his so called oral traditions involved the
    writing down of what was composed. Everything he studied was in the form
    of writing. He didn't even speak Serbian so had to use a translator and written translations. Writing was the ONLY way he had to substantiate
    his claims that oral poetry was a tradition, and even then he said he
    could never prove it. Why? Because he didn't have any written texts that
    date even earlier than the ones that he had in order to prove repetition
    of common passages and themes, and that they appeared differently.

    According to Parry's definition of oral poetry every time the work was
    passed to another oral poet, implicitly in writing (Parry always refers
    to the work being written down after initial performance), it would have
    to undergo change when the next poet performed it in order to be defined
    as an oral composition or oral poetry. Otherwise it would just be
    repeating what was written and NOT part of an oral tradition.

    It doesn't seem consistent with what I know of him.

    pt

    You've not read his doctoral thesis or his papers. I have. What you have
    been indoctrinated with is not what they actually say. My sources are
    Parry's original texts themselves. I suggest you find them and read them yourself.

    Parry never once questioned that the poems he studied were written down because that is how he studied them, EVERYTHING, from Homer to Serbian
    oral poetry, which he knew full well and repeatedly admitted was written
    down, because he studied it in written form in translation. He didn't
    even speak the language.

    What you think of as an oral tradition is NOT how Parry defined it.

    Parry's oral traditions were in fact oral recomposition or retelling of existing written work based on the inclusion of repeated common phrases
    and motifs which was the only thing which did not change in the
    retelling. Everything else by necessity had to undergo change, otherwise
    it would not be oral poetry, oral composition, or an oral tradition, and
    Parry knew that he couldn't prove it was even a tradition because he
    didn't have written sources for when the repeated phrases or motifs were originally composed or that they had even been repeated by successive
    poets in poems based on a common theme that underwent change.

    Every argument that Parry applied to Homer's poems can equally be
    applied to Gilgamesh which we know was written down by the Sumerians
    something like 5000 years ago and passed down in writing. Every singled
    one of Parrys arguments concerning repetitions and constant motifs is
    also an argument for the use of writing to preserve a work of literature against corruption through decay of the medium it was written on because
    it was due to the repetition of stock phrases and use of constant motifs
    that the epic of Gilgamesh was reconstructed from the little that was
    left of it on the clay tablets it was found one. These practices allowed
    the scribe to accurately copy one text to new tablets and when they
    become almost unreadable for that text to be copied again. It's no
    different from the error correction mechanism used on computer hard
    drives and compact discs. Also this mechanism prevented the text from
    being changed since using a fixed meter meant that any change could
    easily be spotted by a change in the meter and it not adding up. This is
    why the Delphic Oracle wrote all of its prophecies in hexameter in Epic
    Greek, so that no one could change the prophecies either before or after
    they had been delivered and falsely pretend they had been fulfilled or
    not fulfilled.

    NONE of Parry's claims about Homer can be proven other than that it
    contains repetition and common motifs. Parry admitted that he couldn't
    prove a tradition because he didn't have written material before that of Homer's texts themselves. Parry never implied that oral composition
    didn't involve the use of writing. Parry stated that all oral
    composition was eventually written down, and that is the way it was
    passed on. The fact that Homer has remained unchanged for 3000 years in
    a dialect nobody even spoke at the time of Herodotus who knew it was at
    least 400 years old already proves that the Iliad and the Odyssey had
    been written down as early as 868 BC as Herodotus himself states.

    By Parry's own arguments it had been written down and changed by
    different poets numerous times before that, but he knew he couldn't
    prove it.

    If he actually understood what Homer wrote, which he clearly didn't, he
    would know that Homer's works are the work of on singe poet alone using
    the medium of writing, because they tell the story of the Trojan War
    from two different perspectives at the same time, both of which are intertwined with each other, the perspective of the heroes and leaders fighting on the front lines along with the ordinary men, and the
    perspective of the leaders leading from the rear, sitting on the tops of mountains, drinking their nectar and ambrosia, and getting enjoyment
    from watching all the people they had sent into battle killing each
    other, which is achieved by representing the leaders of the opposing
    side, both the Achaeans and the Trojans in the form of the gods
    themselves. Zeus could either be Nestor or it could be Priam depending
    on the perspective. He could take their form and appear to others in
    that form or sit on Mt Ida and command the battle. Apollo was
    represented as Paris from the Trojan perspective. Athena was the representation of Odysseus himself from the Greek perspective. From the perspective of Homer the gods were the same leaders leading from the
    rear, and at the same time the leaders also led from the front. These
    are the works of one poet alone. Qunitus who wrote The Fall of Troy
    doesn't even understand it because he copied and changed the work of
    others. Homer did not.

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 01:10:09 2026
    On 8/6/2026 8:12 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 18:58, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/6/2026 12:34 AM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 03:06, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/5/2026 2:01 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 13:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt >>>>>> <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots. >>>>>> People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to
    archetypal
    hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on
    *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    They did nothing of the kind. We know exactly where the Greek and
    Egyptian gods came from because Herodotus and other writers tell
    us. They were the biological ancestors (mathematically proven) of
    the people who worshipped them. All recorded ancient religions were >>>>> ancestor cults. We can even date the exact time at which these gods >>>>> lived as historical kings of the people who made them into gods
    because of the benefits they gave to them. All the Greek gods date
    to around 1700 BC according to the Chronicon. They were basically
    Minoan period kings that ruled over Greece and Phoenicia (Philo,
    Porphyry, Sanchuniathon). The Egyptian gods were the direct
    ancestors of the Pharaoh?s who preceded the first Pharaoh Min
    (Herodotus citing the Egyptians and witnessing the bodies of the
    Pharaohs back to the time of Min himself).

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. >>>>>> If you
    read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not
    much like
    what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but >>>>>> not
    omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an

    The Jewish god is the personification of the Pharaoh of Egypt who
    controlled Syria-Palestine and demanded tribute from the people who >>>>> lived there. He even told Moses his name was "On", meaning The One, >>>>> and that translates to the Egyptian name Ktes (also named Proteus
    according to Diodorus) which means he was the Pharaoh Setnakte.
    Other Pharaohs that were turned into the god of the Jews (not all
    of them were regarded as gods when they were opposed by other
    Pharaohs, which is why the bible talks about prophets of false
    gods) include Ramses III the god of Joshua and Necho (named in the
    Bible) who as the Bible describes handed over the land of Syria-
    Palestine to Nebuchadnezzar II, as corroborated by Herodotus and
    the inscription of Nebuchadnezzar II himself.

    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come >>>>>> down.
    When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're >>>>>> doing.
    Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is >>>>>> only one of those gods.


    Correct. Jehovah was the son of El, the son of Baal-Shamen, the son >>>>> of Elyon, the Most-High God to whom the Jewish temple was
    dedicated. Jehovah's brothers included Mot, Hubal (Apollo), Set/
    Sutekh/Suduc/ Typhon, Shaddai, El the younger, and Dushara (Zeus
    Belus)

    Also among Jehovah's brothers was his possibly half-brother Baal
    Hadad who was also the basis for the Greek god Hades and later
    Adonis and thus the Hebrew god Adonai, gods of the dead. El was
    Kronos or Saturn and is testified to in Linear A inscriptions at
    the Cretan king Satur dating to around 1700 BC the same time as
    when El lived. Jehovah's name is preserved in Egyptian inscriptions >>>>> from the same period as Meruserenre Yakubher, and this explains why >>>>> the Jews worshipped the successive Pharaoh's of Egypt as their god.

    The Hebrew god Tsebaoth (Atlas) was the brother of El along with
    Dagon and Bartylus, and his sisters were Astarte (Aphrodite),
    Ashera (Rhea), and Baaltis (Dione/Demeter). Anat (Athena) was also
    a daughter of El.

    Baal-Hadad (Adonai) was the son of a concubine of Baal-Shamen that
    El gave in marriage to Dagon so all three of these people have
    claim to be his father.

    El was married to his sister Ashera who he offered as wife to
    Jehovah, Yam Nahar (River Sea, hence Pontus in Greece), or Yaw in
    the Baal Epic which explained why the Elephantine letters describe
    her as the wife of Jehovah.

    The Elohim or Gods which the book of Genesis claims created the
    heaven and the earth were the basis for the Greek Titans. They were >>>>> the god who fought with El to depose his father Baal-Shamen as
    ruler, after which he castrated him with a sickle.

    The key to the Bible is LORD means Jehovah, GOD means El, God means >>>>> the Elohim who are mixed up with the Holy Spirit, and Lord means
    Adonsi (Adonis/Hades/Baal-Hadad).

    OK, we've got enough evidence that this guy is Loony Tunes, and not
    to be engaged with seriously (he may be fun to tease, though).

    We've got enough evidence that you are a stupid ignorant imbecile who
    doesn't have the faintest clue or understanding about history, the
    Bible, or ancient religion.

    I'll simply ask you to provide checkable references to your claim
    that Parry said the Homeric poems were composed in written form.


    Parry said that ALL of his so called oral traditions involved the
    writing down of what was composed. Everything he studied was in the form
    of writing. He didn't even speak Serbian so had to use a translator and written translations. Writing was the ONLY way he had to substantiate
    his claims that oral poetry was a tradition, and even then he said he
    could never prove it. Why? Because he didn't have any written texts that date even earlier than the ones that he had in order to prove repetition
    of common passages and themes, and that they appeared differently.

    According to Parry's definition of oral poetry every time the work was passed to another oral poet, implicitly in writing (Parry always refers
    to the work being written down after initial performance), it would have
    to undergo change when the next poet performed it in order to be defined
    as an oral composition or oral poetry. Otherwise it would just be
    repeating what was written and NOT part of an oral tradition.

    Please read for comprehension. I asked you to provide a checkable
    reference. You failed to do so, just spewing more Vigorous Assertion.
    Any academic conference would laugh you out of the room.

    Your claim that all the oral traditionalists he encountered used
    written texts does not hold up to scrutiny.

    From his Wikipedia article:

    "Between 1933 and 1935 Parry, at the time an assistant professor at
    Harvard University, made two visits to Yugoslavia, where he studied and recorded oral traditional poetry in Serbo-Croat with the help on his
    second visit of his assistant Albert Lord, and a native singer and fixer
    named Nikola Vujnovi?, who became essential to finding and communicating
    with other singers, known as the guslar. They worked in Bosnia, where
    literacy was lowest and the oral tradition was, in the term used by
    Parry and Lord, "purest". They made thousands[6] of hours of recordings
    in remote mountain villages of illiterate farmers who sang epic songs of prodigious length from memory. Parry and Lord recorded on newly invented equipment, flat aluminum records instead of vinyl, custom made for the expedition, with only a five minute recording time. Discs were
    continually swapped with a special two-disc machine to create a single
    long recording, later transcribed."

    If there were written texts existing, Parry wouldn't have gone to the
    trouble of recording and then transcribing the poems.

    Can you provide actual references to these 'written texts'?

    The point here is that oral transmission of epic poems has a
    long and well-attested history.

    pt






    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 07:43:58 2026
    On 07/08/2026 06:32, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <11534nd$82if$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 13:32, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <11517oo$3jeii$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 06:31, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <11511og$3hs4j$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 04:48, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <1150vbi$3h7j3$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 16:37, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/5/26 05:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt >>>>>>>>>> <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something? >>>>>>>>>>>> Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any >>>>>>>>>>> of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from >>>>>>>>>>> their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots.
    People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal
    hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially >>>>>>>>>> unlikely?

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it,
    though. If you
    read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not
    much like
    what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not
    omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an >>>>>>>>>> ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to
    come down.
    When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what
    we're doing.
    Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is >>>>>>>>>> only one of those gods.


    ˙˙˙˙But YHWH is the God of Storms a Zeus.Jupiter
    equivalent and t
    ake a look at the Universe and it is full of storm-like activity. >>>>>>>>> ˙˙˙˙Not that I think it is more than coincidence.

    Jehovah was a sea god. He is named as Yaw or Yam Nahar (Rive Sea) in the
    Baal Epic. His Greek equivalent was Pontus as stated by Eusebius, Philo,
    and Pliny. He might also be the Lotan of the Baal Epic and Leviathan of
    the Bible. If so his origin is from Asia-Minor, and he was a Luwian king
    who ruled over the Pontus or Black Sea hence his given name since >>>>>>>> Leviathan means The Luwian. He was defeated by Baal Hadad, ie. Hades in
    the Baal Epic and his ships scattered over the sea. That's your Jehovah.
    It's likely, based on Snorri's identification of Asgard as Troy in >>>>>>>> Asia-Minor (the Bosphorus is the basis of the Bi-Frost bridge, and >>>>>>>> Midgard was Mygdonia or Minoan Greece), that he was worshipped by the >>>>>>>> Vikings ie. Varangians or Phrygians as Odin


    Yahweh you mean?


    No I mean Jehovah. The correct pronunciation is recorded in the Egyptian >>>>>> transliteration of the name of Meruserenre Yakubher.

    There is also a Yakobaam Sekkhaenre who may be the same Pharaoh as >>>>>> Meruserenre Yakubher or more likely Jehovah the grandson of Zeus-Belus >>>>>> ie. Dushara or Teshub.

    The WH in the name of Jehovah is therefore a corruption of the word >>>>>> Baal. YHWH therefore means "I am Baal" or "I am the Lord" which is the >>>>>> name Jehovah gives to Moses when he asks for his name. This translates >>>>>> to "On" or "The One" in the Greek text of the Bible which is equivalent >>>>>> to Ktes in Egyptian, meaning that the god of Moses was the Pharaoh >>>>>> Setnakte also known as Proteus or Ktes (The One) to the Greeks as stated >>>>>> by Diodorus. This places the Exodus at the same time as the Trojan War. >>>>>> We already know this from the Inscription of Merneptah (Amenophis in >>>>>> Manetho) which names Israel as one of the peoples expelled from Egypt >>>>>> when a Trojan lead alliance of Sea Peoples invaded Egypt, as confirmed >>>>>> by Herodotus at the time of Proteus who Herodotus states controlled >>>>>> Egypt at this time. According to Manetho the Jews were expelled from >>>>>> Egypt by an alliance between Amenophis (Merneptah), his son Seti, and >>>>>> the king of Aethiopia, ie. Proteus (Setnakte). The Aethiopian kings list >>>>>> for this period also confirms their successive rule and the expulsion of >>>>>> an Ahmoses (ie. Moses) from Egypt by Proteus (Setnakte) at this time as >>>>>> also stated by Diodorus.

    Amenophis or Merneptah is also known by his full name
    Merneptah-hotphi(r)mae which means he is the Tithonus of Homer,
    Aktisanes of Diodorus, and the Petissonius referred to as ruling Egypt >>>>>> in the same sequence in the account of the Coptic Christian Bishop John >>>>>> Nikiu.


    What about in the Hebrew?


    What about what in the Hebrew?


    For starters, El refers to of Yahweh.


    No it doesn't. El refers to El and Jehovah refers to Jehovah. Jehovah is
    the son of El, the son of Baal-Shamen, the son of Elyon the Most High.

    You've obviously never read the Bible and don't have the remotest clue
    about what it actually says.


    And what is Jevovah in Hebrew?


    YHWH. Pronounced Jehovah.

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 08:19:39 2026
    On 07/08/2026 06:10, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/6/2026 8:12 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 18:58, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/6/2026 12:34 AM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 03:06, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/5/2026 2:01 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 13:53, The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt >>>>>>> <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any >>>>>>>> of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from >>>>>>>> their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper
    roots.
    People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to
    archetypal
    hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on
    *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially >>>>>>> unlikely?

    They did nothing of the kind. We know exactly where the Greek and >>>>>> Egyptian gods came from because Herodotus and other writers tell
    us. They were the biological ancestors (mathematically proven) of >>>>>> the people who worshipped them. All recorded ancient religions
    were ancestor cults. We can even date the exact time at which
    these gods lived as historical kings of the people who made them
    into gods because of the benefits they gave to them. All the Greek >>>>>> gods date to around 1700 BC according to the Chronicon. They were >>>>>> basically Minoan period kings that ruled over Greece and Phoenicia >>>>>> (Philo, Porphyry, Sanchuniathon). The Egyptian gods were the
    direct ancestors of the Pharaoh?s who preceded the first Pharaoh
    Min (Herodotus citing the Egyptians and witnessing the bodies of
    the Pharaohs back to the time of Min himself).

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. >>>>>>> If you
    read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not
    much like
    what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty
    but not
    omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an >>>>>>
    The Jewish god is the personification of the Pharaoh of Egypt who >>>>>> controlled Syria-Palestine and demanded tribute from the people
    who lived there. He even told Moses his name was "On", meaning The >>>>>> One, and that translates to the Egyptian name Ktes (also named
    Proteus according to Diodorus) which means he was the Pharaoh
    Setnakte. Other Pharaohs that were turned into the god of the Jews >>>>>> (not all of them were regarded as gods when they were opposed by
    other Pharaohs, which is why the bible talks about prophets of
    false gods) include Ramses III the god of Joshua and Necho (named >>>>>> in the Bible) who as the Bible describes handed over the land of
    Syria- Palestine to Nebuchadnezzar II, as corroborated by
    Herodotus and the inscription of Nebuchadnezzar II himself.

    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to
    come down.
    When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're >>>>>>> doing.
    Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is >>>>>>> only one of those gods.


    Correct. Jehovah was the son of El, the son of Baal-Shamen, the
    son of Elyon, the Most-High God to whom the Jewish temple was
    dedicated. Jehovah's brothers included Mot, Hubal (Apollo), Set/
    Sutekh/Suduc/ Typhon, Shaddai, El the younger, and Dushara (Zeus
    Belus)

    Also among Jehovah's brothers was his possibly half-brother Baal
    Hadad who was also the basis for the Greek god Hades and later
    Adonis and thus the Hebrew god Adonai, gods of the dead. El was
    Kronos or Saturn and is testified to in Linear A inscriptions at
    the Cretan king Satur dating to around 1700 BC the same time as
    when El lived. Jehovah's name is preserved in Egyptian
    inscriptions from the same period as Meruserenre Yakubher, and
    this explains why the Jews worshipped the successive Pharaoh's of >>>>>> Egypt as their god.

    The Hebrew god Tsebaoth (Atlas) was the brother of El along with
    Dagon and Bartylus, and his sisters were Astarte (Aphrodite),
    Ashera (Rhea), and Baaltis (Dione/Demeter). Anat (Athena) was also >>>>>> a daughter of El.

    Baal-Hadad (Adonai) was the son of a concubine of Baal-Shamen that >>>>>> El gave in marriage to Dagon so all three of these people have
    claim to be his father.

    El was married to his sister Ashera who he offered as wife to
    Jehovah, Yam Nahar (River Sea, hence Pontus in Greece), or Yaw in >>>>>> the Baal Epic which explained why the Elephantine letters describe >>>>>> her as the wife of Jehovah.

    The Elohim or Gods which the book of Genesis claims created the
    heaven and the earth were the basis for the Greek Titans. They
    were the god who fought with El to depose his father Baal-Shamen
    as ruler, after which he castrated him with a sickle.

    The key to the Bible is LORD means Jehovah, GOD means El, God
    means the Elohim who are mixed up with the Holy Spirit, and Lord
    means Adonsi (Adonis/Hades/Baal-Hadad).

    OK, we've got enough evidence that this guy is Loony Tunes, and not
    to be engaged with seriously (he may be fun to tease, though).

    We've got enough evidence that you are a stupid ignorant imbecile
    who doesn't have the faintest clue or understanding about history,
    the Bible, or ancient religion.

    I'll simply ask you to provide checkable references to your claim
    that Parry said the Homeric poems were composed in written form.


    Parry said that ALL of his so called oral traditions involved the
    writing down of what was composed. Everything he studied was in the
    form of writing. He didn't even speak Serbian so had to use a
    translator and written translations. Writing was the ONLY way he had
    to substantiate his claims that oral poetry was a tradition, and even
    then he said he could never prove it. Why? Because he didn't have any
    written texts that date even earlier than the ones that he had in
    order to prove repetition of common passages and themes, and that they
    appeared differently.

    According to Parry's definition of oral poetry every time the work was
    passed to another oral poet, implicitly in writing (Parry always
    refers to the work being written down after initial performance), it
    would have to undergo change when the next poet performed it in order
    to be defined as an oral composition or oral poetry. Otherwise it
    would just be repeating what was written and NOT part of an oral
    tradition.

    Please read for comprehension. I asked you to provide a checkable
    reference. You failed to do so, just spewing more Vigorous Assertion.
    Any academic conference would laugh you out of the room.

    I gave you multiple checkable references. Parry's doctoral thesis and
    his published papers. Pleading ignorance of the source material isn't an argument. Any academic conference that disputed Parry's own words and
    tried to put things he did not say in his mouth which is what you are
    doing you would have no credibility whatsoever and the academics
    attending it would be branded ignorant charlatans. Anyone who thinks
    that Homer's works were the product of an oral tradition despite the
    fact that writing existed continuously in Greece and Cyprus for 1000
    years before he lived, hasn't read them in the original dialect, doesn't understand that that dialect was already 400 years old and out of use at
    the time of Herodotus, hasn't read Herodotus in the original dialect
    which is the closest descendent of Homeric Greek, doesn't know what an
    oral tradition even is, and that it involves the use of writing to
    preserve the work in its original form, and must necessarily by
    definition under go massive change and recomposition by every succeeding
    poet, so that the work becomes unrecognisable compared to the origina,
    and is a complete and utter imbecile.

    Your claim that all the oral traditionalists he encountered used
    written texts does not hold up to scrutiny.

    He says it himself in his thesis and his papers. You are a compulsive
    like if you deny it. No amount of repetition of your lies is going to
    change that. Talk about vigorous assertion. You are the one basing your
    entire argument on it. I'm just calling you out as a COMPLETE IMBECILE
    for doing so. Unlike you I've actually read Parry's work.

    From his Wikipedia article:

    "Between 1933 and 1935 Parry, at the time an assistant professor at
    Harvard University, made two visits to Yugoslavia, where he studied and recorded oral traditional poetry in Serbo-Croat with the help on his
    second visit of his assistant Albert Lord, and a native singer and fixer named Nikola Vujnovi?, who became essential to finding and communicating with other singers, known as the guslar. They worked in Bosnia, where literacy was lowest and the oral tradition was, in the term used by
    Parry and Lord, "purest". They made thousands[6] of hours of recordings
    in remote mountain villages of illiterate farmers who sang epic songs of prodigious length from memory. Parry and Lord recorded on newly invented equipment, flat aluminum records instead of vinyl, custom made for the expedition, with only a five minute recording time. Discs were
    continually swapped with a special two-disc machine to create a single
    long recording, later transcribed."

    If there were written texts existing, Parry wouldn't have gone to the
    trouble of recording and then transcribing the poems.

    Totally LAUGHABLE! Parry said in his thesis everything was written down
    by the poets themselves. He didn't speak a fucking word of Serbian and
    had to rely on written transcripts and translations and the transcripts
    and translations of the original material the poems were constructed
    from made by others in order to try to prove that they were a tradition
    where he could, and in most cases he couldn't because he didn't have
    enough written sources to go back to the original of the original work.

    Can you provide actual references to these 'written texts'?


    GO AND READ PARRY'S FUCKING THESES AND HIS FUCKING PAPERS

    I don't need third and fourth hand dissembled interpretations of his
    actual work to rely on. I have the original primary texts and they say
    the complete opposite of what you claim. GO AND FUCKING READ THEM!
    The point here is that oral transmission of epic poems has a
    long and well-attested history.

    IT HAS ZERO, ABSOLUTELY ZERO HISTORY! ONLY TO A TOTALLY CLUELESS FUCKING
    MORE WOULD EVEN DATE TO USE THE WORD HISTORY ALONG SIDE IT. History? How
    can it have a fucking attested history, let along a well-attested
    fucking history when you claim it was orally transmitted? DO YOU REALISE
    HOW STUPID YOU SOUND? The terms are mutually exclusive. Unless it's been written down its impossible to even verify attestation of it.
    IMPOSSIBLE. And that was Parry's entire point. He said he couldn't do
    that. He said he couldn't prove that traditions of oral compositions
    even existed right at the start of his thesis. He said he had to rely on writing in order to verify what he couldn't and the changes that
    occurred to the work by comparing them to the transcripts of the
    original poems. His entire assertion and conclusion was that oral
    composition in order for it to be defined as oral composition must
    necessarily undergo changes made by every succeeding poet who recited
    the work, otherwise it wouldn't be oral composition and certainly could
    not be called a tradition, because the tradition was one of systematic
    changes that had to appear after every iteration. READ HIS FUCKING WORK
    and not the opinions of a bunch of fucking morons who've never even read it.


    pt

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 12:45:37 2026
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comnospam> wrote:
    Verily, in article <xn0pt5texcvytvm002@post.eweka.nl>, did Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> deliver unto us this message:
    The True Melissa wrote:

    But Ron L. Hubbard was a looney ... he invented the
    ridiculous Scientology 'religion'.

    Didn't he originally do this as a bet or dare or something?
    Then it proved lucrative, and here we are.

    Of course his made-up religion proved lucrative, that's all any
    of them are... made-up money making machines to part fools from
    their money. Simple gullible people lap that shit up.

    I don't know about that. The old religions probably had deeper roots.
    People have hypothesized everything from fertility cults to archetypal
    hero worship to hallucinations, but surely it was based on *something*.
    Why else would anyone else even believe anything as superficially
    unlikely?

    Older religion was different from how we now think of it, though. If you
    read the Old Testament without modern interpretation, it's not much like
    what we now call either Judaism or Christianity. God is mighty but not omnipotent; in fact, he's frequently stymied by humans. He has an
    ordinary body and can walk around on Earth when he chooses to come down.
    When he's not down here, he doesn't automatically know what we're doing. Also, the Earth is a flat square with gods in the sky, and Yahweh is
    only one of those gods.

    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.

    "Brevity is the soul of wit." Your intelligent use of poetry to express yourself is appreciated.

    Defeatism may seem inevitable in a "might makes right" world - a world
    where Rome destroyed the temple of belligerent Jews. Nonetheless,
    centuries later, the meek Catholics inherited the Roman Empire from Constantine.
    Spiritual warfare's timescale may overwhelm those used to instant gratification. In ancient times, Canaanites sacrificed children to Baal.
    Today, the same Canaanite death cult bombs a Minab elementary school as
    a burnt offering to Baal. Logos rises while fear and panic pervade the
    evil Epstein Coalition centered in its infamous island temple.

    Speaking of Baal, we may as well segue to Hubbard. Jack Parsons is
    the key to Hubbard.
    Parsons was well versed in the spiritual realm. At the age of
    twelve, Parsons performed a ritual in his bedroom to invoke the Devil.
    It apparently proved successful enough to scare Parsons out of further attempts.
    A little later Parsons hooked up with Aleister Crowley, who was
    well versed in the spiritual realm. Aleister Crowley and all of the
    occult fiends who abuse children utilize the star of David because it is
    the symbol of Baal. [1] (The kiddush cup is the symbol of Judaism.)

    Besides playing with fire at Jet Propulsion Labs, Parsons also hobnobbed
    with like minded people at Robert Heinlein's house in Laurel Canyon.
    DARKER THAN YOU THINK by Jack Williamson was one of Parsons' favorite
    science fiction stories.
    Eventually local and national Law Enforcement opened up an
    investigation into allegations of Parsons' association with a black
    magic cult involved in sexual orgies. The next thing you know, former US
    Navy officer Hubbard ingratiates himself to Parsons.
    Long story short, Hubbard takes over Parsons' ideation. In manner
    similar to Ben Shapiro's stated desire to "pick up Charlie Kirk's bloody microphone" to try to take over the Turning Point movement that Charlie created.
    Hubbard's advice to start a religion to become rich is more about
    attacking Christianity than becoming rich. Those with the nose for
    money, such as Hubbard, know the best way to make money to become a
    bilking bankster and practice usury. Then interest payments pour into
    your purse of their own accord, without further ado.

    Note.

    [1] <https://agapebiblebr.com/the-six-pointed-star-1967.html>

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. veritas _|_ telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. liberabit |
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' vos |


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 08:49:47 2026
    On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 20:55:33 +0100, The True Doctor
    <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

    <snippo>

    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll? Or,
    worse, a potty-mouthed bot?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 08:59:41 2026
    On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 10:45:11 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/6/26 09:29, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 11:20:07 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    The Hebrews might disagree but it means nothing. The real matter is who
    profits by the sacrifices and it is the priestly classes. which
    in the case of the ancient Jews were hereditary positions.

    Ah. You cite Ayn Rand.

    No I cite my reading of the scriptures and commentaries by various
    thoughtful people.

    And yet, in my reading experience, it is Ayn Rand who asserted that,
    to understand a religion, look at those receiving the offerings.

    Of course, being an arch Capitalist, she was prone to see everything
    in terms of cash flow.

    Also, I am getting the sense here that the idea that some sacrifices
    involved a meal which included the persons providing the animal as
    well as the levites/priest who did the deed is lacking in your account
    of what the Bible describes.

    Which, considering the climate and the distance from, say, Galilee to
    Jerusalme and back again, might explain the persistence of hilltop
    sites where sacrifices could be made much closer to home.

    And by "profits", you presumably mean their /food/ -- food for them
    and their wives' and little ones' food as well.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 09:01:43 2026
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 09:15:43 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2026-08-06 10:44:19 +0000, Blueshirt said:
    The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 14:39, Blueshirt wrote:

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years, by many
    different people... then translated, mistranslated, revised,
    translated
    again to another different language, edited by church elders (with
    agendas), tidied up by
    scholars, revised again with improved translations and now in 2026
    are
    nothing more than fantasy tales for the simple folk to believe in.

    Absolute poppycock. If you are referring to the Bible, it was written

    in Hebrew based on Egyptian, Hittite, Assyro-Babylonian, Phoenician,
    Greek, and Jewish historical texts from the periods that it covers.

    Just because something is written down doesn't mean it is factual... I

    can write down a ton of crazy ideas, leave it for people in the future

    to be amazed at, yet it will still be a load of made-up nonsense.

    Yep. Someone idiot in the future will find a copy of Harry Potter and
    think wizards were real (some loonies today already think Harry Potter
    is real!).



    However, even accepting that the bible is based on ancient historical
    events - and they were documented accurately - with the amount of
    corruptions and exaggerations that have taken place with those stories

    over the centuries, (Including errors with the textual transmission
    and
    revisions that served theological/institutional interests.) the
    sheeple
    who follow the various branches of Christianity today are generally
    unknowledgeable about the primary sources of those ancient tales. So
    what they are left with today, on face value, is basically a book of
    fantasy tales and well meaning fables.

    The bible is a propaganda tool for the Christian religion to enrich
    itself with and the people running the various factions within it. L.
    Ron Hubbard knew what he was doing creating his own religion. People
    are generally simple and gullible. The weaknesses within their minds
    crave for something to follow and be a part of... and they will
    happily
    part with their money for that sense of belonging.

    I don't know about "happy". In the early days, people were forced to
    give up their money and land to the church. In some cases, if they
    didn't convert to whichever looney religion the "missionaries" were >peddling, the non-believers were simply killed.

    Yes, the holodomor in the Ukraine of those who refused to convert to Marxism-Leninism was quite awful.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 12:02:23 2026
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll? Or,
    worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence of real usenet bots. He basically posts random crap to the drwho groups and drives off real discussion, but occasionally will get threads crossposted into other groups. Whether he
    is a an offical troll is hard to say.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 12:07:55 2026
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 10:45:11 -0700, BobbieSellers ><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/6/26 09:29, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 11:20:07 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    =20
    The Hebrews might disagree but it means nothing. The real matter is = >who
    profits by the sacrifices and it is the priestly classes. which
    in the case of the ancient Jews were hereditary positions.
    =20
    Ah. You cite Ayn Rand.

    No I cite my reading of the scriptures and commentaries by various=20 >>thoughtful people.

    And yet, in my reading experience, it is Ayn Rand who asserted that,
    to understand a religion, look at those receiving the offerings.

    Ayn Rand did in fact say that. But many people said that long before she
    did, including Jesus. So you are not wrong, but you may benefit from broadening your reading experience.

    Of course, being an arch Capitalist, she was prone to see everything
    in terms of cash flow.

    Economists, no matter what side of the spectrum they are on, tend to do
    that. It's a useful viewpoint but a limited one.

    And by "profits", you presumably mean their /food/ -- food for them
    and their wives' and little ones' food as well.

    There are religions where people can eat the sacrifices after the spiritual part of them has been removed. There are others where the sacrifices have
    to be burnt or in some other way made inedible. There are certainly OT references to the latter but that doesn't mean the former didn't exist
    there at that time.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 09:18:04 2026
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 07:43:58 +0100, The True Doctor
    <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

    <snippo a lot of the nonsense>
    On 07/08/2026 06:32, The Doctor wrote:

    <snippo a whole lot of nonsense>

    And what is Jevovah in Hebrew?


    YHWH. Pronounced Jehovah.

    Actually, it's not supposed to be pronounced at all. "Adonai" is said
    instead.

    "Jehovah" combines the letters of YHWH with the vowels of "Adonai"
    (or, it appears, "Elohim".

    For those actually interested:
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah>

    This gets quite interesting in places. Well, I found it so, anyway.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 16:37:05 2026
    In article <1154vif$jlk$1@panix2.panix.com>,
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True
    Doctor is a troll? Or, worse, a potty-mouthed
    bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence
    of real usenet bots. He basically posts random
    crap to the drwho groups and drives off real
    discussion, but occasionally will get threads
    crossposted into other groups. Whether he is
    a an offical troll is hard to say.

    Troll-calling is a USENET context form of
    virtue-signalling.
    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | usenet verdict on adam h kerman |
    | fuckchop+idiot+kook+scumbag+troll |
    ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Robert Woodward@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 09:47:06 2026
    In article <4jvb7lhu527vfk1ialu820l6ualr8bs78i@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 20:55:33 +0100, The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

    <snippo>

    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll? Or,
    worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    There were monomaniac fools years before chatbots were created.

    (r.a.d newsgroup removed from reply)

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. -------------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 13:02:27 2026
    Scott Dorsey wrote in article <1154vif$jlk$1@panix2.panix.com>:

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll? Or, >worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence of real usenet bots. He basically posts random crap to the drwho groups and drives off real discussion,
    but occasionally will get threads crossposted into other groups. Whether he is a an offical troll is hard to say.

    I think you're speaking of the Doctor (Dave). The True Doctor (AGA) is a different poster.

    Neither are trolls, but AGA/the True Doctor definitely has some unusual
    views.

    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 18:50:22 2026
    On 07/08/2026 17:18, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 07:43:58 +0100, The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

    <snippo a lot of the nonsense>
    On 07/08/2026 06:32, The Doctor wrote:

    <snippo a whole lot of nonsense>

    And what is Jevovah in Hebrew?


    YHWH. Pronounced Jehovah.

    Actually, it's not supposed to be pronounced at all. "Adonai" is said instead.

    "Jehovah" combines the letters of YHWH with the vowels of "Adonai"


    So I was right all the long. The Jews syncretised both of the main protagonists of the Baal Epic, Jehovah (Yaw/Yam Nahar) and Baal-Hadad
    (Adodus) and turned this gestalt into their god, since Baal-Hadad is
    Adonai in Hebrew (equivalent to the Greek underworld gods Hades and
    Adonis) and Jehovah from the Baal Epic is the Hyksos Pharoah Meruserenre Yakubher or Yakobaam Sekkhaenre. Thus YHWH's name is "I am Baal" = "I am
    the Lord" as he states to Noah in the book of Genesis. Yaku-bher =
    Yako-baam = YH-WH = I'm Baal literally and Baal means Lord.

    (or, it appears, "Elohim".

    Elohim means The Gods in Hebrew. They were literally the gods or Titans
    who were led by Jehovah (Pontus=Yam Nahar=River Sea) and fought with El (Kronos) against his father Baal-Shamen (Uranus) to depose him according
    to Sanchuniathon's Phoenician history.


    For those actually interested:
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah>

    This gets quite interesting in places. Well, I found it so, anyway.


    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 19:03:37 2026
    On 07/08/2026 16:49, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 20:55:33 +0100, The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

    <snippo>

    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll? Or,
    worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    Everyone knows that you are a complete and utter imbecile with no
    learning or understanding of anything. That was blatantly obvious the
    moment you started making imbecilic comments about oral traditions,
    parroting out absolute bollocks that you've been indoctrinating with
    claiming that despite the continuous and unbroken use of writing in
    Greece and Syria-Palestine since at least 1900 BC that the works of
    Homer and the Bible are the product of such. IMBECILE. COMPLETE AND
    UTTER UNEDUCATED FOOL! THE EMPEROR IS WEARING NO CLOTHES. Even a 4 year
    old child that has just learned to read and right can you the total and
    utter stupidity of your stupid and ignorant claim. Like the ancient
    Greeks recited catalogues of ships to each other complete with the
    number of the ships from each city and the number of people in them, and
    the Jews recited lists of generations complete with the number of years
    each person lived and the number of years that passed from when they
    were born until they begat their children. Oral tradition? When they
    were surrounded by writing. YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTE MORON AND YOU ARE NOT
    FOOLING ANYONE WITH ANY INTELLIGENCE! YOU STUPID IGNORANT IMBECILE!

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 19:04:49 2026
    On 07/08/2026 14:33, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 7/08/2026 5:55 am, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 06/08/2026 17:18, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 13:58:37 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 8/5/2026 1:25 PM, The True Doctor wrote:

    <snippo, this is getting excessively weird>

    Can we drop the expletives?

    Sadly, something seems to have triggered fear of a threat to a deeply
    held religious belief (in this case, the belief that everything was
    written down immediately by its author [1]).

    And yet another clueless imbecile who is totally out of his depth and
    ignores all the warnings not to expose his complete and utter stupidity

    Aggy, you should stop belittling yourself like this.

    We all know, already. ;-P

    And once again you demonstrate your lack of any English comprehension
    skills whatsoever.

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 19:27:40 2026
    On 07/08/2026 14:37, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <1153urf$emul$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 06:32, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <11534nd$82if$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

    Jehovah was a sea god. He is named as Yaw or Yam Nahar (Rive
    Sea) in the
    Baal Epic. His Greek equivalent was Pontus as stated by
    Eusebius, Philo,
    and Pliny. He might also be the Lotan of the Baal Epic and Leviathan of
    the Bible. If so his origin is from Asia-Minor, and he was a
    Luwian king
    who ruled over the Pontus or Black Sea hence his given name since >>>>>>>>>> Leviathan means The Luwian. He was defeated by Baal Hadad, ie. Hades in
    the Baal Epic and his ships scattered over the sea. That's your
    Jehovah.
    It's likely, based on Snorri's identification of Asgard as Troy in >>>>>>>>>> Asia-Minor (the Bosphorus is the basis of the Bi-Frost bridge, and >>>>>>>>>> Midgard was Mygdonia or Minoan Greece), that he was worshipped by the
    Vikings ie. Varangians or Phrygians as Odin


    Yahweh you mean?


    No I mean Jehovah. The correct pronunciation is recorded in the Egyptian
    transliteration of the name of Meruserenre Yakubher.

    There is also a Yakobaam Sekkhaenre who may be the same Pharaoh as >>>>>>>> Meruserenre Yakubher or more likely Jehovah the grandson of Zeus-Belus >>>>>>>> ie. Dushara or Teshub.

    The WH in the name of Jehovah is therefore a corruption of the word >>>>>>>> Baal. YHWH therefore means "I am Baal" or "I am the Lord" which is the >>>>>>>> name Jehovah gives to Moses when he asks for his name. This translates >>>>>>>> to "On" or "The One" in the Greek text of the Bible which is equivalent
    to Ktes in Egyptian, meaning that the god of Moses was the Pharaoh >>>>>>>> Setnakte also known as Proteus or Ktes (The One) to the Greeks as stated
    by Diodorus. This places the Exodus at the same time as the Trojan War.
    We already know this from the Inscription of Merneptah (Amenophis in >>>>>>>> Manetho) which names Israel as one of the peoples expelled from Egypt >>>>>>>> when a Trojan lead alliance of Sea Peoples invaded Egypt, as confirmed >>>>>>>> by Herodotus at the time of Proteus who Herodotus states controlled >>>>>>>> Egypt at this time. According to Manetho the Jews were expelled from >>>>>>>> Egypt by an alliance between Amenophis (Merneptah), his son Seti, and >>>>>>>> the king of Aethiopia, ie. Proteus (Setnakte). The Aethiopian kings list
    for this period also confirms their successive rule and the expulsion of
    an Ahmoses (ie. Moses) from Egypt by Proteus (Setnakte) at this time as
    also stated by Diodorus.

    Amenophis or Merneptah is also known by his full name
    Merneptah-hotphi(r)mae which means he is the Tithonus of Homer, >>>>>>>> Aktisanes of Diodorus, and the Petissonius referred to as ruling Egypt >>>>>>>> in the same sequence in the account of the Coptic Christian Bishop John
    Nikiu.


    What about in the Hebrew?


    What about what in the Hebrew?


    For starters, El refers to of Yahweh.


    No it doesn't. El refers to El and Jehovah refers to Jehovah. Jehovah is >>>> the son of El, the son of Baal-Shamen, the son of Elyon the Most High. >>>>
    You've obviously never read the Bible and don't have the remotest clue >>>> about what it actually says.


    And what is Jevovah in Hebrew?


    YHWH. Pronounced Jehovah.


    Yahweh! Jevovah is Latinisation.
    Jehovah is the way the Egyptians pronounced it which means that Jehovah
    is the way the Hebrews pronounced it too.

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 7 14:55:47 2026
    Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:


    And by "profits", you presumably mean their /food/ -- food for them
    and their wives' and little ones' food as well.

    There are religions where people can eat the sacrifices after the spiritual part of them has been removed. There are others where the sacrifices have
    to be burnt or in some other way made inedible. There are certainly OT references to the latter but that doesn't mean the former didn't exist
    there at that time.


    In Rome it was decided somehow that the gods wanted the offal of a
    sacrificed animal. So people could eat the rejected part, steaks and
    chops and so on.

    Practical people, the Romans.

    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 04:48:08 2026
    On 07/08/2026 17:02, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll? Or,
    worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence of real usenet bots. He basically posts random crap to the drwho groups and drives off real discussion,

    I do nothing of the kind. The ones posting crap into this group are
    those demonstrating the enormity of their total imbecilitude (is that my
    word of the Captain's?) by repeating the unfounded popular lie that
    Homer's works and the Bible were the product of an oral tradition,
    despite writing having existed for over a millennium before both works
    were composed and the historicity of both being verified by modern
    archaeology and the discovery (even in the time of Herodotus) of
    Egyptian, Hittite, and Assyro-Babylonian inscriptions testifying to the historical people and events these texts mention. The Merneptah Stela
    not only corroborates the account of the outbreak of the Trojan War and
    the attack on Egypt by the Trojans as described by Herodotus but also of
    the Exodus as described by Manetho and the Bible even naming Israel
    itself as being left devoid of seed. Then there's the Inscription and
    mural or Ramses III which corroborates the attack on Egypt by Achaeans
    (named) led by Menelaus and Teukrians (named) led by Teucer the founder
    of Salamis from a base in Cyprus which is referred to in the Odyssey and
    is the basis of Euripides' play Helen.

    but occasionally will get threads crossposted into other groups. Whether he is a an offical troll is hard to say.
    --scott


    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bruce@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 04:51:31 2026
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <11551jh$qinl$1@dont-email.me>, oldernow <oldernow@dev.null> wrote:
    In article <1154vif$jlk$1@panix2.panix.com>,
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True
    Doctor is a troll? Or, worse, a potty-mouthed
    bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence
    of real usenet bots. He basically posts random
    crap to the drwho groups and drives off real
    discussion, but occasionally will get threads
    crossposted into other groups. Whether he is
    a an offical troll is hard to say.

    Troll-calling is a USENET context form of
    virtue-signalling.

    Point well taken



    https://myimgs.org/image/bgVVllcH

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 10:34:17 2026
    On 07/08/2026 22:41, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <11555su$s8ju$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 17:18, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 07:43:58 +0100, The True Doctor
    <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

    <snippo a lot of the nonsense>
    On 07/08/2026 06:32, The Doctor wrote:

    <snippo a whole lot of nonsense>

    And what is Jevovah in Hebrew?


    YHWH. Pronounced Jehovah.

    Actually, it's not supposed to be pronounced at all. "Adonai" is said
    instead.

    "Jehovah" combines the letters of YHWH with the vowels of "Adonai"


    So I was right all the long. The Jews syncretised both of the main
    protagonists of the Baal Epic, Jehovah (Yaw/Yam Nahar) and Baal-Hadad
    (Adodus) and turned this gestalt into their god, since Baal-Hadad is
    Adonai in Hebrew (equivalent to the Greek underworld gods Hades and
    Adonis) and Jehovah from the Baal Epic is the Hyksos Pharoah Meruserenre
    Yakubher or Yakobaam Sekkhaenre. Thus YHWH's name is "I am Baal" = "I am
    the Lord" as he states to Noah in the book of Genesis. Yaku-bher =
    Yako-baam = YH-WH = I'm Baal literally and Baal means Lord.

    (or, it appears, "Elohim".

    Elohim means The Gods in Hebrew. They were literally the gods or Titans
    who were led by Jehovah (Pontus=Yam Nahar=River Sea) and fought with El
    (Kronos) against his father Baal-Shamen (Uranus) to depose him according
    to Sanchuniathon's Phoenician history.


    For those actually interested:
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah>

    This gets quite interesting in places. Well, I found it so, anyway.


    and Nephelim?


    They're the same as the Niflheim in Norse mythology and refer to
    European people from the north, specifically those from the Netherlands
    who are the tallest people in the entire world.

    Noah as was demonstrated by Josephus in his Antiquities was Ogygus the historical King of Athens at the time of the Ogygian Deluge (ie. the
    Thera Eruption of 1628 BC) and Janus the historical King of Italy at the
    same time. All of these people are exactly the same person and are
    derived from the same common written account which was still extant in
    Egypt at the time of Solon (c.570 BC) which also forms the basis of the
    story of Atlantis and Thymaetes' Phyrgia which we know from Diodorus,
    who preserves the text of both the Atlantean account and Thymaetes, is
    the same account as Ctesias' Persica and Berosus' Babylonica all of
    which are quoted one after the other and tell exactly the same story.
    There are only very minor differences between them. The full Roman
    account of the Phrygia is preserved in The Travels of Noah Into Europe
    by Robert Lynche who derives it from Annius de Viterbo (born Giovanni
    Nanni), who derives it from pseudo-Berosus which derives from
    pseudo-Ctesias, which derives from Alexander Polyhistor (the genuine
    Berosus and Ctesias no longer being extant and Diodorus' accounts
    probably being pseudo-Berosus and pseudo-Ctesias too) who probably
    derives the account from Antiochus of Syracuse given the names of the
    kings mentioned by Lynche are known to have been present in Antiochus'
    no longer extant text of the Colonising of Italy and History of Sicily,
    who wrote at the same time as the real Ctesias.

    You can find the complete transcript into modern English here (along
    with links to the original printed versions): https://www.argyrou.uk/homepage/myths/bible/Travels.htm

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 09:41:49 2026
    The True Doctor wrote:

    On 07/08/2026 17:02, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor
    is a troll? Or, worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence of real
    usenet bots. He basically posts random crap to the drwho
    groups and drives off real discussion,

    I do nothing of the kind.

    I think some people might have mixed you up with Dave, because
    you have Doctor in your nym.

    There's more than one Doctor but there's only one Agamemnon!

    but occasionally will get threads crossposted into other
    groups. Whether he is a an offical troll is hard to say.

    That sounds more like Dave, aka The Doctor, to me. He loves
    cross-posting everywhere to spread his chaos.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 13:50:21 2026
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote in news:11573kh$1ejr8$2@dont- email.me:

    On 8/08/2026 7:41 pm, Blueshirt wrote:
    The True Doctor wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 17:02, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor
    is a troll? Or, worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence of real
    usenet bots. He basically posts random crap to the drwho
    groups and drives off real discussion,

    I do nothing of the kind.

    I think some people might have mixed you up with Dave, because
    you have Doctor in your nym.

    There's more than one Doctor but there's only one Agamemnon!

    but occasionally will get threads crossposted into other
    groups. Whether he is a an offical troll is hard to say.

    That sounds more like Dave, aka The Doctor, to me. He loves
    cross-posting everywhere to spread his chaos.

    .... but he will tell you that he is merely trying to attract other
    posters into the 'Doctor Who' groups.

    Does Binky still claim that when Binky sets followups to
    alt.sex.pedophilia? I'd call him a liar but that's a tad late.

    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet
    poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets
    another asskicking from The One True Melissa

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 09:19:47 2026
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 13:02:27 -0400, The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:

    Scott Dorsey wrote in article <1154vif$jlk$1@panix2.panix.com>:

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll? Or,
    worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence of real usenet bots.
    He
    basically posts random crap to the drwho groups and drives off real discussion,
    but occasionally will get threads crossposted into other groups.
    Whether he
    is a an offical troll is hard to say.

    I think you're speaking of the Doctor (Dave). The True Doctor (AGA) is a

    different poster.

    Neither are trolls, but AGA/the True Doctor definitely has some unusual >views.

    And a potty-mouth.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 09:20:38 2026
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 16:37:05 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    In article <1154vif$jlk$1@panix2.panix.com>,
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True
    Doctor is a troll? Or, worse, a potty-mouthed
    bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence
    of real usenet bots. He basically posts random
    crap to the drwho groups and drives off real
    discussion, but occasionally will get threads
    crossposted into other groups. Whether he is
    a an offical troll is hard to say.

    Troll-calling is a USENET context form of
    virtue-signalling.

    Well, then it's a good thing I didn't actually /call/ him a troll,
    isn't it.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 09:34:17 2026
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 12:07:55 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 10:45:11 -0700, BobbieSellers >><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/6/26 09:29, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 5 Aug 2026 11:20:07 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    =20
    The Hebrews might disagree but it means nothing. The real matter
    is =
    who
    profits by the sacrifices and it is the priestly classes. which
    in the case of the ancient Jews were hereditary positions.
    =20
    Ah. You cite Ayn Rand.

    No I cite my reading of the scriptures and commentaries by
    various=20
    thoughtful people.

    And yet, in my reading experience, it is Ayn Rand who asserted that,
    to understand a religion, look at those receiving the offerings.

    Ayn Rand did in fact say that. But many people said that long before
    she
    did, including Jesus. So you are not wrong, but you may benefit from >broadening your reading experience.

    Of course, being an arch Capitalist, she was prone to see everything
    in terms of cash flow.

    Economists, no matter what side of the spectrum they are on, tend to do
    that. It's a useful viewpoint but a limited one.

    And by "profits", you presumably mean their /food/ -- food for them
    and their wives' and little ones' food as well.

    There are religions where people can eat the sacrifices after the
    spiritual
    part of them has been removed. There are others where the sacrifices
    have
    to be burnt or in some other way made inedible. There are certainly OT >references to the latter but that doesn't mean the former didn't exist
    there at that time.

    The annotators in the Oxford Annotated Bible, find it in the text
    itself.

    Mind you, an anonymous annotation has no authority in itself. And some
    have no authority at all, being plainly an example of pushing
    someone's pet belief.

    There are various types of sacrifices in, say, Leviticus. Some involve
    burning the entire carcass. Others involve burning specified parts.
    Some involve parts that only the priests on duty can eat. Others
    involve parts that all priests (and their families) can eat, even if
    they are deformed can cannot serve as priests.

    The partiality of God for the stench of burning entrails was
    established in the aftermath of the flood. And so was probably part of
    other versions (Greek, Babylonian) as well.

    I have occasionally toyed with the idea that the entire sacrificial
    system was designed, not so much to support the tribe of Levi as to
    provide the people with a familar religious practice, one as similar
    as possible to that of their neighbors. But I have no idea what Modern Scholarship has to say about this stuff.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 09:36:12 2026
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 21:37:15 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    In article <e90c7ltcm3t17ohoqpv86uictvcka1ukqp@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 09:15:43 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
    wrote:

    On 2026-08-06 10:44:19 +0000, Blueshirt said:
    The True Doctor wrote:
    On 05/08/2026 14:39, Blueshirt wrote:

    The ancient scriptures were written over hundreds of years, by
    many
    different people... then translated, mistranslated, revised,
    translated
    again to another different language, edited by church elders (with

    agendas), tidied up by
    scholars, revised again with improved translations and now in 2026
    are
    nothing more than fantasy tales for the simple folk to believe in.

    Absolute poppycock. If you are referring to the Bible, it was
    written
    in Hebrew based on Egyptian, Hittite, Assyro-Babylonian,
    Phoenician,
    Greek, and Jewish historical texts from the periods that it covers.

    Just because something is written down doesn't mean it is factual...
    I
    can write down a ton of crazy ideas, leave it for people in the
    future
    to be amazed at, yet it will still be a load of made-up nonsense.

    Yep. Someone idiot in the future will find a copy of Harry Potter and >>>think wizards were real (some loonies today already think Harry Potter

    is real!).



    However, even accepting that the bible is based on ancient
    historical
    events - and they were documented accurately - with the amount of
    corruptions and exaggerations that have taken place with those
    stories
    over the centuries, (Including errors with the textual transmission
    and
    revisions that served theological/institutional interests.) the
    sheeple
    who follow the various branches of Christianity today are generally
    unknowledgeable about the primary sources of those ancient tales. So

    what they are left with today, on face value, is basically a book of

    fantasy tales and well meaning fables.

    The bible is a propaganda tool for the Christian religion to enrich
    itself with and the people running the various factions within it.
    L.
    Ron Hubbard knew what he was doing creating his own religion. People

    are generally simple and gullible. The weaknesses within their minds

    crave for something to follow and be a part of... and they will
    happily
    part with their money for that sense of belonging.

    I don't know about "happy". In the early days, people were forced to >>>give up their money and land to the church. In some cases, if they >>>didn't convert to whichever looney religion the "missionaries" were >>>peddling, the non-believers were simply killed.

    Yes, the holodomor in the Ukraine of those who refused to convert to >>Marxism-Leninism was quite awful.

    Marxism-Leninism is satanic evil.

    Whatever.

    Personally, I think "religion" describes it quite well.

    It sure irritates a lot of people who /insist/ that no form of atheism
    can possibly be a religion.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 09:41:31 2026
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 21:38:17 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    In article <hd0c7l50v5odp1rvl93dmt7jpk8h79v42r@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 07:43:58 +0100, The True Doctor >><agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

    <snippo a lot of the nonsense>
    On 07/08/2026 06:32, The Doctor wrote:

    <snippo a whole lot of nonsense>

    And what is Jevovah in Hebrew?


    YHWH. Pronounced Jehovah.

    Actually, it's not supposed to be pronounced at all. "Adonai" is said >>instead.

    "Jehovah" combines the letters of YHWH with the vowels of "Adonai"
    (or, it appears, "Elohim".

    For those actually interested:
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah>

    This gets quite interesting in places. Well, I found it so, anyway.

    And your opinion on drwho ?

    Who?

    Don't cross-post to other groups and then whine when they respond,
    especially by pretending you were discussing Dr Who when you clearly
    when were not.

    And don't even /think/ about claiming it was "The True Doctor". You
    never disowned his potty-mouthed nonsense, and it is too late for you
    to do so now.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 17:43:23 2026
    In article <hple7l5a0eusttt8aglou8j1ecm49dupsg@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 16:37:05 -0000 (UTC), oldernow <oldernow@dev.null>
    wrote:

    In article <1154vif$jlk$1@panix2.panix.com>,
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True
    Doctor is a troll? Or, worse, a potty-mouthed
    bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence
    of real usenet bots. He basically posts random
    crap to the drwho groups and drives off real
    discussion, but occasionally will get threads
    crossposted into other groups. Whether he is
    a an offical troll is hard to say.

    Troll-calling is a USENET context form of
    virtue-signalling.

    Well, then it's a good thing I didn't actually
    /call/ him a troll, isn't it.

    Absolutamente!
    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | usenet verdict on adam h kerman |
    | fuckchop+idiot+kook+scumbag+troll |
    ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 21:01:58 2026
    On 08/08/2026 14:54, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <1156t6q$1c9oi$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 22:41, The Doctor wrote:
    In article <11555su$s8ju$1@dont-email.me>,
    The True Doctor <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 17:18, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Aug 2026 07:43:58 +0100, The True Doctor
    <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

    <snippo a lot of the nonsense>
    On 07/08/2026 06:32, The Doctor wrote:

    <snippo a whole lot of nonsense>

    And what is Jevovah in Hebrew?


    YHWH. Pronounced Jehovah.

    Actually, it's not supposed to be pronounced at all. "Adonai" is said >>>>> instead.

    "Jehovah" combines the letters of YHWH with the vowels of "Adonai"


    So I was right all the long. The Jews syncretised both of the main
    protagonists of the Baal Epic, Jehovah (Yaw/Yam Nahar) and Baal-Hadad
    (Adodus) and turned this gestalt into their god, since Baal-Hadad is
    Adonai in Hebrew (equivalent to the Greek underworld gods Hades and
    Adonis) and Jehovah from the Baal Epic is the Hyksos Pharoah Meruserenre >>>> Yakubher or Yakobaam Sekkhaenre. Thus YHWH's name is "I am Baal" = "I am >>>> the Lord" as he states to Noah in the book of Genesis. Yaku-bher =
    Yako-baam = YH-WH = I'm Baal literally and Baal means Lord.

    (or, it appears, "Elohim".

    Elohim means The Gods in Hebrew. They were literally the gods or Titans >>>> who were led by Jehovah (Pontus=Yam Nahar=River Sea) and fought with El >>>> (Kronos) against his father Baal-Shamen (Uranus) to depose him according >>>> to Sanchuniathon's Phoenician history.


    For those actually interested:
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah>

    This gets quite interesting in places. Well, I found it so, anyway.


    and Nephelim?


    They're the same as the Niflheim in Norse mythology and refer to
    European people from the north, specifically those from the Netherlands
    who are the tallest people in the entire world.

    Noah as was demonstrated by Josephus in his Antiquities was Ogygus the
    historical King of Athens at the time of the Ogygian Deluge (ie. the
    Thera Eruption of 1628 BC) and Janus the historical King of Italy at the
    same time. All of these people are exactly the same person and are
    derived from the same common written account which was still extant in
    Egypt at the time of Solon (c.570 BC) which also forms the basis of the
    story of Atlantis and Thymaetes' Phyrgia which we know from Diodorus,
    who preserves the text of both the Atlantean account and Thymaetes, is
    the same account as Ctesias' Persica and Berosus' Babylonica all of
    which are quoted one after the other and tell exactly the same story.
    There are only very minor differences between them. The full Roman
    account of the Phrygia is preserved in The Travels of Noah Into Europe
    by Robert Lynche who derives it from Annius de Viterbo (born Giovanni
    Nanni), who derives it from pseudo-Berosus which derives from
    pseudo-Ctesias, which derives from Alexander Polyhistor (the genuine
    Berosus and Ctesias no longer being extant and Diodorus' accounts
    probably being pseudo-Berosus and pseudo-Ctesias too) who probably
    derives the account from Antiochus of Syracuse given the names of the
    kings mentioned by Lynche are known to have been present in Antiochus'
    no longer extant text of the Colonising of Italy and History of Sicily,
    who wrote at the same time as the real Ctesias.

    You can find the complete transcript into modern English here (along
    with links to the original printed versions):
    https://www.argyrou.uk/homepage/myths/bible/Travels.htm


    Josephus is a must read.

    You have your own website I see.

    Now updated with an introduction to the full text which validates
    Josephus' claim.


    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 17:35:23 2026
    The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
    In article <MPG.44dfd9b03f334a098a292@news.eternal-september.org>,
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:
    Scott Dorsey wrote in article <1154vif$jlk$1@panix2.panix.com>:

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll? Or,
    worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence of real usenet bots. He >>> basically posts random crap to the drwho groups and drives off real >>discussion,
    but occasionally will get threads crossposted into other groups. Whether he
    is a an offical troll is hard to say.

    I think you're speaking of the Doctor (Dave). The True Doctor (AGA) is a >>different poster.

    Neither are trolls, but AGA/the True Doctor definitely has some unusual >>views.

    That is why AGA nd I get along.

    Sorry for the confusion. It's hard to keep track of all the mess coming
    out of rec.arts.drwho.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 22:44:31 2026
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    news:11587er$dk5$1@panix2.panix.com:

    The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
    In article <MPG.44dfd9b03f334a098a292@news.eternal-september.org>,
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:
    Scott Dorsey wrote in article <1154vif$jlk$1@panix2.panix.com>:

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll?
    Or, worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence of real usenet
    bots. He basically posts random crap to the drwho groups and
    drives off real
    discussion,
    but occasionally will get threads crossposted into other groups.
    Whether he is a an offical troll is hard to say.

    I think you're speaking of the Doctor (Dave). The True Doctor (AGA)
    is a different poster.

    Neither are trolls, but AGA/the True Doctor definitely has some
    unusual views.

    That is why AGA nd I get along.

    Sorry for the confusion. It's hard to keep track of all the mess
    coming out of rec.arts.drwho.

    Has Binky (AKA "The Doctor" but not "The True Doctor")from RADW called
    you a pedophile yet? Don't worry, he will. It'll be easier to tell them
    apart.

    Wait until Binky sets followups to alt.sex.pedophilia.

    PS: ALL HAI TEEDOTBEE.

    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet
    poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets
    another asskicking from The One True Melissa

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 19:48:45 2026
    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:

    PS: ALL HAI TEEDOTBEE.

    Indeed. Now, in those days we had trolls that were real trolls. We will
    never see the likes of Carasso again. These kids have but a pale shadow of
    his trolling.
    --scott


    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 8 21:03:31 2026
    On 8/7/2026 11:48 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 17:02, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Paul S Person˙ <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll? Or,
    worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence of real usenet bots.˙ He
    basically posts random crap to the drwho groups and drives off real
    discussion,

    I do nothing of the kind. The ones posting crap into this group are
    those demonstrating the enormity of their total imbecilitude (is that my word of the Captain's?) by repeating the unfounded popular lie that
    Homer's works and the Bible were the product of an oral tradition,
    despite writing having existed for over a millennium before both works
    were composed and the historicity of both being verified by modern archaeology and the discovery (even in the time of Herodotus) of
    Egyptian, Hittite, and Assyro-Babylonian inscriptions testifying to the historical people and events these texts mention. The Merneptah Stela
    not only corroborates the account of the outbreak of the Trojan War and
    the attack on Egypt by the Trojans as described by Herodotus but also of
    the Exodus as described by Manetho and the Bible even naming Israel
    itself as being left devoid of seed. Then there's the Inscription and
    mural or Ramses III which corroborates the attack on Egypt by Achaeans (named) led by Menelaus and Teukrians (named) led by Teucer the founder
    of Salamis from a base in Cyprus which is referred to in the Odyssey and
    is the basis of Euripides' play Helen.

    but occasionally will get threads crossposted into other groups.
    Whether he
    is a an offical troll is hard to say.
    --scott

    We have people like this drop into rasfw periodically. They all follow
    the same pattern: They have some elaborate theory that they desperately
    want to be taken seriously, but which falls apart under expert academic scrutiny.

    They come to rasfw thinking we'll be more open minded and accepting, but
    don't realize that decades of reading SF leaves fans with the most
    sensitive bullshit detectors on the planet.

    When we don't bow down to their claimed expertise, they get upset, and eventually decamp. I fully expect 'The True Doctor' to do so in time.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 9 13:55:35 2026
    On 09/08/2026 13:03, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    When we don't bow down to their claimed expertise, they get upset, and eventually decamp. I fully expect 'The True Doctor' to do so in time.

    It is already in my decamp file.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 9 02:43:33 2026
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    news:1158f8t$rpl$1@panix2.panix.com:

    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:

    PS: ALL HAI TEEDOTBEE.

    Indeed. Now, in those days we had trolls that were real trolls. We
    will never see the likes of Carasso again. These kids have but a pale
    shadow of his trolling.
    --scott

    Back in those days I had to wade uphill past 400 other posts just to beg to
    be allowed to get in line to be trolled by CARASSO.

    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet
    poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets
    another asskicking from The One True Melissa

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Doctor@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 9 04:45:35 2026
    On 09/08/2026 02:03, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/7/2026 11:48 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 17:02, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Paul S Person˙ <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll? Or,
    worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence of real usenet bots.˙ He >>> basically posts random crap to the drwho groups and drives off real
    discussion,

    I do nothing of the kind. The ones posting crap into this group are
    those demonstrating the enormity of their total imbecilitude (is that
    my word of the Captain's?) by repeating the unfounded popular lie that
    Homer's works and the Bible were the product of an oral tradition,
    despite writing having existed for over a millennium before both works
    were composed and the historicity of both being verified by modern
    archaeology and the discovery (even in the time of Herodotus) of
    Egyptian, Hittite, and Assyro-Babylonian inscriptions testifying to
    the historical people and events these texts mention. The Merneptah
    Stela not only corroborates the account of the outbreak of the Trojan
    War and the attack on Egypt by the Trojans as described by Herodotus
    but also of the Exodus as described by Manetho and the Bible even
    naming Israel itself as being left devoid of seed. Then there's the
    Inscription and mural or Ramses III which corroborates the attack on
    Egypt by Achaeans (named) led by Menelaus and Teukrians (named) led by
    Teucer the founder of Salamis from a base in Cyprus which is referred
    to in the Odyssey and is the basis of Euripides' play Helen.

    but occasionally will get threads crossposted into other groups.
    Whether he
    is a an offical troll is hard to say.
    --scott

    We have people like this drop into rasfw periodically. They all follow
    the same pattern: They have some elaborate theory that they desperately
    want to˙ be taken seriously, but which falls apart under expert academic scrutiny.

    You mean like the total and absolute BOLLOCKS of oral traditions? As
    opposed to the truth, that writing was in continuous use in ancient
    Greece (including Cyprus and Asia-Minor) since 1900 BC without
    interruption as has been proven archaeologically and history was written
    down. As opposed to accepting what ancient historians wrote down
    themselves, that kings lists and lists of Argive priestesses of Hera
    were written down and preserved since 1700 or 1800 BC along with the
    notable historical events that happened year by year while they were in office. Oh no, that simple idea of actually recording history in writing year-by-year can't possibly be true, so, these totally degenerate fools
    have to invent a complete and utter total load of BOLLOCKS about oral traditions, without even knowing what an oral tradition even is, PARRY
    SAID THEY WERE ALL BY DEFINITION REQUIRED TO UNDERGO SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE
    EVERY TIME THEY WERE PASSED ON TO DIFFERENT POETS YOU FUCKING IGNORANT UNEDUCATED IMBECILE, in order to make everything extremely complicated
    for everyone else so that they can put forward anything they want to
    make up themselves out of thin air to suit their political views and
    pretend that it's actual history and no one else who they don't deem
    capable of understanding their stupid illogical nonsense is a fool that
    must be ridiculed so that others are discouraged from also calling out
    their lies. FUCKING DEGENERATE IMBECILES!

    They come to rasfw thinking we'll be more open minded and accepting, but don't realize that decades of reading SF leaves fans with the most
    sensitive bullshit detectors on the planet.

    Reading George Orwell's 1984 makes it obvious that these degenerate
    fucking imbeciles proposing that oral traditions even existed when there
    is not one single ancient or even more recent source prior to Parry even recording their existence, NOT ONE, and even Parry said it was
    impossible to prove they were even a traditions, let alone them
    recording actual history, which Parry didn't even go as far as stating
    anyway, because he only considered them to be a means of creating
    fiction in literate societies where everything was eventually written
    down and recorded, including the material he used for his own studies,
    are working for MINITRUE and employed in the Department of Fiction
    rewriting and dissembling history and literature in order to insert
    their ignorant deranged thoughts and political messages so as to serve
    their degenerate left-wing ideology, the ideology of George Orwell's
    Nazis, that of Ingsoc, the English Socialist Party. FUCKING MORONS!


    When we don't bow down to their claimed expertise, they get upset, and eventually decamp. I fully expect 'The True Doctor' to do so in time.

    pt

    I'm calling you out as the Emperor With No Clothes. You don't have a
    shred of evidence to dispute the simple fact that ancient history and
    poetry was recorded in writing, so you try to make out that everyone who
    sees you parading down the streets completely naked, covered only with
    your invisible birthday suit of oral traditions (which you don't even understand and have not even read the original source material for,
    which says the complete opposite of what you are calming), is an idiot,
    except after you have been called out by little boy stating the obvious
    they are all laughing their heads off at you. YOU STUPID FUCKING DEGENERATE!

    --
    The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

    "To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it stands for." --William Shatner

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 9 08:21:58 2026
    The Doctor wrote in article <1159p0g$1quq$3@gallifrey.nk.ca>:

    Why do we have odd characters coming from rasfw?

    Dave, how have you been on Usenet this long without understanding
    crossposts? They're not "coming in." They're reading from RASFW.


    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 9 09:06:50 2026
    On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 23:51:32 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>

    What about King James version?

    It was "The Bible" when I was growing up. I still have several copies
    -- one of them (from an ancestor 3 or 4 generations back) even
    mentions the alternate readings and notes that they have been dropped.
    It also has an essay explaining how it was done, something that most
    later versions have also dropped. [1]

    I read the NEB for decades, but am currently back to the RSV.

    [1] No, this is not the Dedicatory Epistle. IIRC, the process is
    pretty much the same as for the NEB and RSV (and probably every other
    major English translation): gather a bunch of scholars from different traditions, divide into a heirarchy of teams (everyone, OT/NT,
    Law/Prophets, Writings or Gospels/Epistles/Acts/Revelation), into
    specific books, then into parts of book for each scholar to translate,
    then endless committees: each part, each book, each testament, the
    whole thing must be approved by everybody and pounded into a common
    style at each level).

    It should go without saying that this is not what some of the nuttier
    partisans of the KJV want to hear. /They want to hear that each of the
    72 scholars translated the whole thing and then, when they were
    compared, all 72 translations were found to be identical down to the
    very punctuation. Or maybe that was the Septuagint.

    Dropping all that stuff, not so much how it was done but the alternate readings, giving the impression that each verse has One and Only One
    True Translation did a lot to produce those nutters over the
    centuries.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 9 09:10:40 2026
    On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 23:52:58 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    Ateism is a spawn of Satan.

    I'm not sure Satan is biological equipped for spawning. In any sense.

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 9 16:50:52 2026
    Cryptoengineer wrote:

    We have people like this drop into rasfw periodically.

    In fairness, the OP of this thread [Nomen Nescio] cross-posted
    into RADW... the "Doctor Who" fans were not really looking for a
    vacation in RASFW, so they didn't just "drop-in"... and nobody
    deleted RADW from the groups list when they replied. - As the
    subject mentions L. Ron Hubbard it was a thread probably more
    suitable here than in a "Doctor Who" newsgroup anyway.

    They all follow the same pattern: They have some elaborate
    theory that they desperately want to be taken seriously, but
    which falls apart under expert academic scrutiny.

    Or vice-versa...

    They come to rasfw thinking we'll be more open minded and
    accepting, but don't realize that decades of reading SF leaves
    fans with the most sensitive bullshit detectors on the planet.

    That's not how it went... the thread came into RADW. Because
    L.Ron Hubbard created his own religion the discussion went off
    on the religious tangent from there.

    And is still ongoing... which right or wrong is how Usenet
    works.

    When we don't bow down to their claimed expertise, they get
    upset, and eventually decamp. I fully expect 'The True Doctor'
    to do so in time.

    Who's to say his expertise is not better than yours? I know
    people on Usenet never like to admit their views on anything are
    wrong, but somebody has to be. People need to start backing-up
    their POV with some academic links so the normal Usenet reader
    can make their own minds up.

    Or just not reply at all so the discussion dies out...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 10 08:01:09 2026
    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    news:1158f8t$rpl$1@panix2.panix.com:

    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:

    PS: ALL HAI TEEDOTBEE.

    Indeed. Now, in those days we had trolls that were real trolls. We
    will never see the likes of Carasso again. These kids have but a pale
    shadow of his trolling.

    Back in those days I had to wade uphill past 400 other posts just to beg to >be allowed to get in line to be trolled by CARASSO.

    This is because he, like many, started trolling people in real life before moving to the net. The kids today have it easy, never actually leaving
    their parents' basement to troll anyone in person. To wit:

    In article <15025@chaph.usc.edu> carasso@aludra.usc.edu (Roger RDC Carasso) writ
    es:
    TRUE:
    Me and a couple of my friends at Cal Poly went into a porn movie
    with several Soft Soap Bottles in a backpack. We'd yell out "Oh, oh,
    oh, yes, yes, I'm coming!", and then squirt out the Soft Soap off the
    balcony. Some guy below then yelled "HEY...What the fuck is *this*!"
    We were laughing our heads off.



    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet >poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets >another asskicking from The One True Melissa


    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 10 10:34:14 2026
    Daniel70 wrote in article <115cmlj$36ou4$1@dont-email.me>:

    I would accept that the edujamacated peeoples WERE able to WRITE stuff
    down .... but not the VAST majority of people, probably not even, necessarily, the Rulers. I mean, WHY did they have Scribes if they could write stuff down themselves??

    One interesting thing about Hammurabi is that all his tablets
    were carved by the same hand. He may have had the same scribe
    throughout his life, but a more likely explanation is that
    Hammurabi himself was literate. That was, indeed, unusual at the
    time. That's why it stands out.

    By Homer's time, though, I expect the ruling classes were all
    literate. I remember reading about how dreary Emperor Julian's
    early education was; it's remarkable that anyone ever read for
    pleasure after such a beginning.

    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 10 11:29:37 2026
    The Doctor wrote in article <115cq0u$1ao0$45@gallifrey.nk.ca>:
    In article <115cmlj$36ou4$1@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    [quoted text muted]
    PARRY SAID THEY WERE ALL BY DEFINITION REQUIRED TO UNDERGO
    SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE EVERY TIME THEY WERE PASSED ON TO DIFFERENT POETS

    Oh!! Look out! Now we have Poets BEFORE people can write. Well, Poetry
    IS an Oral art, so maybe Aggy is right about this.

    What can we say about Dannyboy?

    Well, we did have poets before we had writing. Music/poetry is
    our oldest art form, older than cave paintings, and it began as a
    single thing. That was long before any literacy.

    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 10 08:46:54 2026
    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 08:01:09 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in >>news:1158f8t$rpl$1@panix2.panix.com:

    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:

    PS: ALL HAI TEEDOTBEE.

    Indeed. Now, in those days we had trolls that were real trolls. We
    will never see the likes of Carasso again. These kids have but a
    pale
    shadow of his trolling.

    Back in those days I had to wade uphill past 400 other posts just to
    beg to
    be allowed to get in line to be trolled by CARASSO.

    This is because he, like many, started trolling people in real life
    before
    moving to the net. The kids today have it easy, never actually leaving
    their parents' basement to troll anyone in person. To wit:

    In article <15025@chaph.usc.edu> carasso@aludra.usc.edu (Roger RDC
    Carasso) writ
    es:
    TRUE:
    Me and a couple of my friends at Cal Poly went into a porn movie
    with several Soft Soap Bottles in a backpack. We'd yell out "Oh, oh,
    oh, yes, yes, I'm coming!", and then squirt out the Soft Soap off the
    balcony. Some guy below then yelled "HEY...What the fuck is *this*!"
    We were laughing our heads off.

    And some people think kids today are bad!
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 10 08:55:03 2026
    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 19:08:53 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    In article <hg9h7l5p3anh743up6td1jsjsm29n8gtik@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 23:52:58 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The >>Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    Ateism is a spawn of Satan.

    I'm not sure Satan is biological equipped for spawning. In any sense.


    Explain the Nepelim then.

    I think the text is quite clear. What's to explain?

    You do realize that, being pre-Flood, the story has to be that they
    all drowned and any later giants (like Goliath) had a different
    origin, right?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 10 12:29:19 2026
    The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
    In article <hisj7lpfc4v9dh03aog5u23hgls2sjcp0g@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:


    And some people think kids today are bad!

    Cujo is a tasteless troll

    Perhaps, but Cujo is a pretty good troll. At least he displays skill at the game. Better than crossposting random screeds all over.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 10 14:21:27 2026
    Paul S Person wrote in article
    <iusj7lldbitgimdhtj44sfieptff7oddpg@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 19:08:53 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <hg9h7l5p3anh743up6td1jsjsm29n8gtik@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 23:52:58 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The >>Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    Ateism is a spawn of Satan.

    I'm not sure Satan is biological equipped for spawning. In any sense.


    Explain the Nepelim then.

    I think the text is quite clear. What's to explain?

    You do realize that, being pre-Flood, the story has to be that they
    all drowned and any later giants (like Goliath) had a different
    origin, right?

    One of the Gnostic gospels tells of a tribe of Nephilim preserved
    in the mountains. The left-out gospels talk about all kinds of
    things the preserved ones didn't mention.

    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 10 14:22:19 2026
    The Doctor wrote in article <115csnt$15kp$5@gallifrey.nk.ca>:
    In article <MPG.44e3b8685c6f6adc98a2cd@news.eternal-september.org>,
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:

    Well, we did have poets before we had writing. Music/poetry is
    our oldest art form, older than cave paintings, and it began as a
    single thing. That was long before any literacy.

    Please explain the Dead Sea Scrolls.


    Explain what about them? That was considerably after cave-
    dwelling times.

    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 10 15:44:06 2026
    On 8/8/2026 11:45 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 09/08/2026 02:03, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 8/7/2026 11:48 PM, The True Doctor wrote:
    On 07/08/2026 17:02, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Paul S Person˙ <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    Anyone else beginning to suspect that The True Doctor is a troll? Or, >>>>> worse, a potty-mouthed bot?

    He is not a bot since he predates the existence of real usenet
    bots.˙ He
    basically posts random crap to the drwho groups and drives off real
    discussion,

    I do nothing of the kind. The ones posting crap into this group are
    those demonstrating the enormity of their total imbecilitude (is that
    my word of the Captain's?) by repeating the unfounded popular lie
    that Homer's works and the Bible were the product of an oral
    tradition, despite writing having existed for over a millennium
    before both works were composed and the historicity of both being
    verified by modern archaeology and the discovery (even in the time of
    Herodotus) of Egyptian, Hittite, and Assyro-Babylonian inscriptions
    testifying to the historical people and events these texts mention.
    The Merneptah Stela not only corroborates the account of the outbreak
    of the Trojan War and the attack on Egypt by the Trojans as described
    by Herodotus but also of the Exodus as described by Manetho and the
    Bible even naming Israel itself as being left devoid of seed. Then
    there's the Inscription and mural or Ramses III which corroborates
    the attack on Egypt by Achaeans (named) led by Menelaus and Teukrians
    (named) led by Teucer the founder of Salamis from a base in Cyprus
    which is referred to in the Odyssey and is the basis of Euripides'
    play Helen.

    but occasionally will get threads crossposted into other groups.
    Whether he
    is a an offical troll is hard to say.
    --scott

    We have people like this drop into rasfw periodically. They all follow
    the same pattern: They have some elaborate theory that they desperately
    want to˙ be taken seriously, but which falls apart under expert academic
    scrutiny.

    You mean like the total and absolute BOLLOCKS of oral traditions? As
    opposed to the truth, that writing was in continuous use in ancient
    Greece (including Cyprus and Asia-Minor) since 1900 BC without
    interruption as has been proven archaeologically and history was written down. As opposed to accepting what ancient historians wrote down
    themselves, that kings lists and lists of Argive priestesses of Hera
    were written down and preserved since 1700 or 1800 BC along with the
    notable historical events that happened year by year while they were in office. Oh no, that simple idea of actually recording history in writing year-by-year can't possibly be true, so, these totally degenerate fools
    have to invent a complete and utter total load of BOLLOCKS about oral traditions, without even knowing what an oral tradition even is, PARRY
    SAID THEY WERE ALL BY DEFINITION REQUIRED TO UNDERGO SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE EVERY TIME THEY WERE PASSED ON TO DIFFERENT POETS YOU FUCKING IGNORANT UNEDUCATED IMBECILE, in order to make everything extremely complicated
    for everyone else so that they can put forward anything they want to
    make up themselves out of thin air to suit their political views and
    pretend that it's actual history and no one else who they don't deem
    capable of understanding their stupid illogical nonsense is a fool that
    must be ridiculed so that others are discouraged from also calling out
    their lies. FUCKING DEGENERATE IMBECILES!

    They come to rasfw thinking we'll be more open minded and accepting, but
    don't realize that decades of reading SF leaves fans with the most
    sensitive bullshit detectors on the planet.

    Reading George Orwell's 1984 makes it obvious that these degenerate
    fucking imbeciles proposing that oral traditions even existed when there
    is not one single ancient or even more recent source prior to Parry even recording their existence, NOT ONE, and even Parry said it was
    impossible to prove they were even a traditions, let alone them
    recording actual history, which Parry didn't even go as far as stating anyway, because he only considered them to be a means of creating
    fiction in literate societies where everything was eventually written
    down and recorded, including the material he used for his own studies,
    are working for MINITRUE and employed in the Department of Fiction
    rewriting and dissembling history and literature in order to insert
    their ignorant deranged thoughts and political messages so as to serve
    their degenerate left-wing ideology, the ideology of George Orwell's
    Nazis, that of Ingsoc, the English Socialist Party. FUCKING MORONS!


    When we don't bow down to their claimed expertise, they get upset, and
    eventually decamp. I fully expect 'The True Doctor' to do so in time.

    pt

    I'm calling you out as the Emperor With No Clothes. You don't have a
    shred of evidence to dispute the simple fact that ancient history and
    poetry was recorded in writing, so you try to make out that everyone who sees you parading down the streets completely naked, covered only with
    your invisible birthday suit of oral traditions (which you don't even understand and have not even read the original source material for,
    which says the complete opposite of what you are calming), is an idiot, except after you have been called out by little boy stating the obvious
    they are all laughing their heads off at you. YOU STUPID FUCKING
    DEGENERATE!


    I find your claim that Parry does not support oral tradition to be
    lacking. I have receipts.

    You seem incapable of providing actual checkable references, so
    I went and got some.

    Try this:

    Studies in the Epic Technique of Oral Verse-Making: I. Homer and
    Homeric Style

    https://chs.harvard.edu/curated-article/milman-parry-studies-in-the-epic-technique-of-oral-verse-making-i-homer-and-homeric-style/

    and

    Studies in the Epic Technique of Oral Verse-Making: II. The Homeric
    Language as the Language of an Oral Poetry

    https://chs.harvard.edu/curated-article/milman-parry-studies-in-the-epic-technique-of-oral-verse-making-ii-the-homeric-language-as-the-language-of-an-oral-poetry/

    both by Milman Parry himself, published 1930.

    Parry argues that the Iliad and Odyssey were composed in a traditional,
    oral poetic style, not a literate or individually crafted written style.
    He demonstrates this by analyzing Homer?s diction?especially
    formulas?and showing that their structure, frequency, and
    systematization can only arise in a long-standing oral tradition.

    Please explain how this fits in with your claims.

    pt




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 10 19:53:17 2026
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    news:115cei5$aqi$1@panix2.panix.com:

    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in >>news:1158f8t$rpl$1@panix2.panix.com:

    Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> wrote:

    PS: ALL HAI TEEDOTBEE.

    Indeed. Now, in those days we had trolls that were real trolls. We
    will never see the likes of Carasso again. These kids have but a
    pale shadow of his trolling.

    Back in those days I had to wade uphill past 400 other posts just to
    beg to be allowed to get in line to be trolled by CARASSO.

    This is because he, like many, started trolling people in real life
    before moving to the net. The kids today have it easy, never actually leaving their parents' basement to troll anyone in person. To wit:

    In article <15025@chaph.usc.edu> carasso@aludra.usc.edu (Roger RDC
    Carasso) writ es:
    TRUE:
    Me and a couple of my friends at Cal Poly went into a porn movie
    with several Soft Soap Bottles in a backpack. We'd yell out "Oh,
    oh, oh, yes, yes, I'm coming!", and then squirt out the Soft Soap
    off the balcony. Some guy below then yelled "HEY...What the fuck
    is *this*!" We were laughing our heads off.

    That'll teach them to sit in the front without umbrellas. I recall him
    setting off Merde by calling her a "fat hairy douchebag".

    Mao pissing off Gnat and pretending it was his son all along was a
    classic backpedal and self own.

    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet
    poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets
    another asskicking from The One True Melissa

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 10 19:55:24 2026
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    news:115cu8v$6rs$1@panix2.panix.com:

    The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
    In article <hisj7lpfc4v9dh03aog5u23hgls2sjcp0g@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:


    And some people think kids today are bad!

    Cujo is a tasteless troll

    Perhaps, but Cujo is a pretty good troll. At least he displays skill
    at the game. Better than crossposting random screeds all over.
    --scott

    <snicker>

    Nadless T. Capon thinks trolling is setting followups to
    alt.sex.pedophilia. Charming bloke, isn't he?

    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet
    poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets
    another asskicking from The One True Melissa

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 10 19:51:30 2026
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote in article <115csnt$15kp$5@gallifrey.nk.ca>:
    In article <MPG.44e3b8685c6f6adc98a2cd@news.eternal-september.org>,
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:

    Well, we did have poets before we had writing. Music/poetry is
    our oldest art form, older than cave paintings, and it began as a
    single thing. That was long before any literacy.

    Please explain the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    Explain what about them? That was considerably after cave-
    dwelling times.

    The Dead Sea Scrolls?
    They are a Grateful Dead cover band.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Tue Aug 11 05:09:02 2026
    The Doctor wrote in article <115e1q5$20ke$19@gallifrey.nk.ca>:
    In article <MPG.44e3e0ea422ba0ed98a2d1@news.eternal-september.org>,
    The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:
    [quoted text muted]


    Explain what about them? That was considerably after cave-
    dwelling times.

    But ancient written scrools.

    There's nothing to explain. They're from after the preliterate
    period. That doesn't mean the preliterate period didn't exist.


    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue Aug 11 09:32:33 2026
    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:21:27 -0400, The True Melissa <thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:

    Paul S Person wrote in article
    <iusj7lldbitgimdhtj44sfieptff7oddpg@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 19:08:53 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    In article <hg9h7l5p3anh743up6td1jsjsm29n8gtik@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 23:52:58 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    Ateism is a spawn of Satan.

    I'm not sure Satan is biological equipped for spawning. In any
    sense.


    Explain the Nepelim then.

    I think the text is quite clear. What's to explain?

    You do realize that, being pre-Flood, the story has to be that they
    all drowned and any later giants (like Goliath) had a different
    origin, right?

    One of the Gnostic gospels tells of a tribe of Nephilim preserved
    in the mountains. The left-out gospels talk about all kinds of
    things the preserved ones didn't mention.

    To this day, if you seach hard enough, you can find left-out books
    that mention all kinds of things the preserved ones don't mention.

    Flying saucers. I very strange theory that suns burn out and become
    planets which, when they find a sun to orbit, produce life. All sorts
    of things.

    Highly intellectual theories also abound. I book of my father's,
    /Pocket Bible Handbook/ by Henry H. Halley spends a lot of time
    documenting when writing was developed in Egypt. Why? Because one of
    those theories asserted that Moses could not have written the first
    five books because /writing had not been invented yet/. Such is the
    wisdom of pointy-headed intellectual double-domes! The same sort as
    Schliemann proved wrong by digging up Troy, Mycenae, Knossos.

    This was a well-printed, well-bound book. It is not a paperback, but
    the material used for the back and covers is not what a hardback book
    would have either. The current version, on Amazon, looks, I must say,
    a lot spiffier.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Tue Aug 11 20:23:48 2026
    Paul S Person wrote:

    To this day, if you seach hard enough, you can find
    left-out books that mention all kinds of things the
    preserved ones don't mention.

    Question.

    Is AI, when fed literature to learn from, able to distinguish
    between books that are factual and works of fiction? Not just
    biblical scriptures, but generally. Does it know when something
    written down is made up?

    If its machine learning was fed tons of sci-fi books would it
    know it was sci-fi, or would it take the written words at face
    value and believe those fantastical worlds and the many
    varieties of alien species were real?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Tue Aug 11 20:00:54 2026
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
    Is AI, when fed literature to learn from, able to distinguish
    between books that are factual and works of fiction? Not just
    biblical scriptures, but generally. Does it know when something
    written down is made up?

    No, it's not for that. Now, a person actively training an AI might know
    this and might be able to provide context. But the AI is just one big
    matrix of numbers whose weights are adjusted to produce a given output
    from a given input.

    If its machine learning was fed tons of sci-fi books would it
    know it was sci-fi, or would it take the written words at face
    value and believe those fantastical worlds and the many
    varieties of alien species were real?

    It doesn't know anything, it just does this function where when this thing goes in, that other thing should come out.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 12 16:16:19 2026
    On 12/08/2026 07:23, Blueshirt wrote:
    Paul S Person wrote:

    To this day, if you seach hard enough, you can find
    left-out books that mention all kinds of things the
    preserved ones don't mention.

    Question.

    Is AI, when fed literature to learn from, able to distinguish
    between books that are factual and works of fiction? Not just
    biblical scriptures, but generally. Does it know when something
    written down is made up?

    Vested interests would ensure that some AIs would believe every word the
    Biden White House Press Secretary had ever said while other AIs with
    different owners would believe every word the Trump White House Press
    Secretary had ever said.

    If its machine learning was fed tons of sci-fi books would it
    know it was sci-fi, or would it take the written words at face
    value and believe those fantastical worlds and the many
    varieties of alien species were real?

    AIs are restricted with zillions of parameters. I imagine that
    dependence on specified dictionaries would be high on the tests for fact
    or fiction.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 12 09:06:54 2026
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 20:23:48 +0100, "Blueshirt"
    <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:

    Paul S Person wrote:

    To this day, if you seach hard enough, you can find
    left-out books that mention all kinds of things the
    preserved ones don't mention.

    Question.

    Is AI, when fed literature to learn from, able to distinguish
    between books that are factual and works of fiction? Not just
    biblical scriptures, but generally. Does it know when something
    written down is made up?

    Not yet.

    If its machine learning was fed tons of sci-fi books would it
    know it was sci-fi, or would it take the written words at face
    value and believe those fantastical worlds and the many
    varieties of alien species were real?

    The models currently available to everybody, AFAIK, just follow one
    word by another word based on how often that happens in what they
    read.

    But perhaps they are more advanced now. If "advanced" is the word for
    "closer to seizing control of the missiles and launching them".
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 12 09:14:25 2026
    On Wed, 12 Aug 2026 04:58:40 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <nbim7l9f4iitc0mbbgsk42fdm0epsfg9rl@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:21:27 -0400, The True Melissa >><thetruemelissa@gmail.comNOSPAM> wrote:

    Paul S Person wrote in article >>><iusj7lldbitgimdhtj44sfieptff7oddpg@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 9 Aug 2026 19:08:53 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    In article <hg9h7l5p3anh743up6td1jsjsm29n8gtik@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Aug 2026 23:52:58 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The
    Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    Ateism is a spawn of Satan.

    I'm not sure Satan is biological equipped for spawning. In any
    sense.


    Explain the Nepelim then.

    I think the text is quite clear. What's to explain?

    You do realize that, being pre-Flood, the story has to be that they
    all drowned and any later giants (like Goliath) had a different
    origin, right?

    One of the Gnostic gospels tells of a tribe of Nephilim preserved
    in the mountains. The left-out gospels talk about all kinds of
    things the preserved ones didn't mention.

    To this day, if you seach hard enough, you can find left-out books
    that mention all kinds of things the preserved ones don't mention.

    Flying saucers. I very strange theory that suns burn out and become
    planets which, when they find a sun to orbit, produce life. All sorts
    of things.

    Highly intellectual theories also abound. I book of my father's,
    /Pocket Bible Handbook/ by Henry H. Halley spends a lot of time
    documenting when writing was developed in Egypt. Why? Because one of
    those theories asserted that Moses could not have written the first
    five books because /writing had not been invented yet/. Such is the
    wisdom of pointy-headed intellectual double-domes! The same sort as >>Schliemann proved wrong by digging up Troy, Mycenae, Knossos.

    This was a well-printed, well-bound book. It is not a paperback, but
    the material used for the back and covers is not what a hardback book
    would have either. The current version, on Amazon, looks, I must say,
    a lot spiffier.

    Roswell 1947 anyone?

    I was thinking more of a book on Revelation (read over the past few
    years as one of many such books inherited from my grandfather, who had
    an interest in the topic) that shows a /color/ (and so quite
    expensive) picture of a purported "flying saucer".

    It also claimed that, when Jesus talked about summoning legions of
    angels, those angels would space aliens from other planets. And
    similar tripe. Still, it was at least different from the others.

    The second bit was from a book which then proceded to discuss /every
    single Bible story/ in which someone descended and returned. There are
    quite a few even I could think of if I bothered to try. He found a lot
    more because, of course, he was looking for a Pattern and he saw it
    everywhere.

    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 12 09:27:51 2026
    On 8/12/26 09:06, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 20:23:48 +0100, "Blueshirt"
    <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:

    Paul S Person wrote:

    To this day, if you seach hard enough, you can find
    left-out books that mention all kinds of things the
    preserved ones don't mention.

    Question.

    Is AI, when fed literature to learn from, able to distinguish
    between books that are factual and works of fiction? Not just
    biblical scriptures, but generally. Does it know when something
    written down is made up?

    Not yet.

    If its machine learning was fed tons of sci-fi books would it
    know it was sci-fi, or would it take the written words at face
    value and believe those fantastical worlds and the many
    varieties of alien species were real?

    The models currently available to everybody, AFAIK, just follow one
    word by another word based on how often that happens in what they
    read.

    But perhaps they are more advanced now. If "advanced" is the word for
    "closer to seizing control of the missiles and launching them".


    I remember a story where real Artificial Intelligence committed suicide
    when it became aware of what it was. Taking the human race along
    with it was not in that story but it might be a logical machine-wise
    conclusion if it took religious books seriously to destroy the flawed
    creators along with the flawed machine.

    The early AI that attempted to avoid shutdown is proof that
    the LLM trained on the content of the internet were reading SF or
    reading the movie scripts of the Colossus:the Forbin project or
    similar nonsense.

    But if the missiles are connected to the Internet it is
    already too late. People do connect the strangest things to the
    Internet thinking of the water systems which were connected and
    thus exposed to bad actors and their tampering.

    bliss - study, practice, experience

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 13 14:00:17 2026

    Daniel70 wrote:

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times.... and
    then returned to E.T.'s Home Planet each time before
    returning.

    Why didn't he just save time and phone home instead?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 13 09:19:04 2026
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one around 1800 presumably?
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 13 08:44:14 2026
    On Wed, 12 Aug 2026 09:27:51 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/12/26 09:06, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 20:23:48 +0100, "Blueshirt"
    <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:

    Paul S Person wrote:

    To this day, if you seach hard enough, you can find
    left-out books that mention all kinds of things the
    preserved ones don't mention.

    Question.

    Is AI, when fed literature to learn from, able to distinguish
    between books that are factual and works of fiction? Not just
    biblical scriptures, but generally. Does it know when something
    written down is made up?

    Not yet.

    If its machine learning was fed tons of sci-fi books would it
    know it was sci-fi, or would it take the written words at face
    value and believe those fantastical worlds and the many
    varieties of alien species were real?

    The models currently available to everybody, AFAIK, just follow one
    word by another word based on how often that happens in what they
    read.

    But perhaps they are more advanced now. If "advanced" is the word for
    "closer to seizing control of the missiles and launching them".


    I remember a story where real Artificial Intelligence committed suicide

    when it became aware of what it was. Taking the human race along
    with it was not in that story but it might be a logical machine-wise >conclusion if it took religious books seriously to destroy the flawed >creators along with the flawed machine.

    The early AI that attempted to avoid shutdown is proof that
    the LLM trained on the content of the internet were reading SF or
    reading the movie scripts of the Colossus:the Forbin project or
    similar nonsense.

    But if the missiles are connected to the Internet it is
    already too late. People do connect the strangest things to the
    Internet thinking of the water systems which were connected and
    thus exposed to bad actors and their tampering.

    The very /concept/ of "security" is unknown to some people. People,
    sadly, in positions with real-world consequences.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 13 08:50:40 2026
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 22:26:49 +1000, Daniel70
    <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

    On 13/08/2026 2:14 am, Paul S Person wrote:

    <Snip>

    The second bit was from a book which then proceded to discuss /every
    single Bible story/ in which someone descended and returned. There are
    quite a few even I could think of if I bothered to try. He found a lot
    more because, of course, he was looking for a Pattern and he saw it
    everywhere.

    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??)

    No. That is why the 20th century ran from 1901 to 2000. This caused a
    lot of confusion during the Millenium bug era.

    Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to

    E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    Of course, one might expect that Scientific/Engeering developments back
    on E.T.'s home planet should have meant that the Jesus -> Muhammad cycle

    should have happened more quickly, maybe after only 200 - 300 years.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 13 08:53:45 2026
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:19:04 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >>Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned
    to
    E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and
    one
    around 1800 presumably?

    Cue Aquinas (1225-1274) and Marx (1818-1883) ...

    Not that I think this nonsense is worth commenting on, BTW.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 13 12:27:50 2026
    On 8/13/26 08:53, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:19:04 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.

    Buddha had lots of students and later disciples after his lifetime
    who added to his teaching and conferred divinity where he had
    implied none. The isle Ceylon hosted Theravada Buddhism while
    the Continent of Asia became a hotbed of Mahayana Buddhism and
    sent evangelical minded Buddhists to Tibet, thru China, Korea
    and finally to Japan where it introduced reading and writing.
    The Japanese Buddhist cults rose to great power under the
    Japanese empire and into the Shogun-al years but with the
    Shogun Zen Buddhism became the main religion of the warrior
    class, the Samurai whose value to their lives was defined
    by their deaths. Shinto which is animism essentially is
    the religion which was led by the Emperor who performed
    essential rites.


    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??)

    Quoting from Wiki.

    There was no year Zero as the concept was unknown but Jesus was
    reportedly born not on the BCE/CE timeline change. The date
    of his birth was during the reign of Ceasar Augustus
    Augustus reigned from 16 January 27 BC to 19 August AD 14.
    The date of the birth of Jesus is not stated in the gospels or
    in any historical sources and the evidence is insufficient to
    allow for consistent dating. However, most biblical scholars
    and ancient historians believe that his birth date is
    around 6 to 4 BC.


    Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >>> E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one
    around 1800 presumably?

    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and
    at which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

    You leave out the various Islamic and Jewish notables and messianic cult figures. There were quite a few.


    Cue Aquinas (1225-1274) and Marx (1818-1883) ...

    Mother Shipton would be another.

    The Prophet Joseph Smith of the Church of Latter Day Saints
    would also fit the timing. And he was murdered which is part of
    the monotheistic pattern.

    I would rather fill in the space with the great chemists
    and physicists of the 17th, 18th and 19th and 20th Century.


    Not that I think this nonsense is worth commenting on, BTW.


    Of course it is totally ridiculous.
    But wait until my gospel of unlimited grace is published. ;^)

    bliss - study, practice, experience

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Your Name@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 14 09:20:04 2026
    On 2026-08-13 19:27:50 +0000, BobbieSellers said:
    On 8/13/26 08:53, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 09:19:04 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??)

    Quoting from Wiki.

    There was no year Zero as the concept was unknown but Jesus was
    reportedly born not on the BCE/CE timeline change. The date
    of his birth was during the reign of Ceasar Augustus
    Augustus reigned from 16 January 27 BC to 19 August AD 14.
    The date of the birth of Jesus is not stated in the gospels or
    in any historical sources and the evidence is insufficient to
    allow for consistent dating. However, most biblical scholars
    and ancient historians believe that his birth date is
    around 6 to 4 BC.

    And, if the mytcical Jesus ever existed in any way, he was supposedly
    born was around 20-21 April ... nowhere near the 25 December that the
    church hijacked Pagan rituals for the celebration.

    The entire Christian religion is based on nothing but lies and
    stupidity, the same as all the other religion idiocy.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 13 19:20:43 2026
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    And, if the mytcical Jesus ever existed in any way, he was supposedly
    born was around 20-21 April ... nowhere near the 25 December that the
    church hijacked Pagan rituals for the celebration.

    Nobody wants to celebrate a holiday in April. Plus, it would be too
    close to National Deep Dish Pizza day, and who wants pizza for Christmas?

    The entire Christian religion is based on nothing but lies and
    stupidity, the same as all the other religion idiocy.

    I don't care, as long as I get all of the tasty holiday foods. This
    weekend is the Feast of the Assumption and I am all ready for the
    stuffed peppers and honey figs. How can you turn down a religion with
    honeyed figs? And Buddha's birthday is right around the corner just
    in time for longan season.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bruce@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 14 03:13:57 2026
    The Doctor wrote:

    No wonder rasfw is such an active interesting place.

    https://myimgs.org/image/H4i6AW6Y

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 14 10:07:33 2026
    Your Name wrote:

    The entire Christian religion is based on nothing but
    lies and stupidity,


    I'd go with...

    Bastardised history mixed-in with fantastic tales of mythic
    heroes and some fables for the weak-minded.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 14 12:04:25 2026
    Daniel70 wrote:

    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:

    The Prophet Joseph Smith of the Church of Latter Day
    Saints would also fit the timing.

    Aren't they, sort of, Christian??

    Yes, and they don't drink tea or coffee! So not the sort of
    people you would want popping in for tea and cake.

    I dated a Mormon in London in the mid-1980's - she even tried
    to convert me. (Foolish girl) I might have handled the 10%
    tithe, but not the no-tea thing!!!

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 14 14:42:40 2026
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of "perfect" and went to heaven on death. If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors.
    The war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab
    southern estates.

    Arius had nothing to do with this. He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison. Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    The Albigensians show up in some SF, in particular in Meredith's
    Timeliner trilogy.


    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 14 12:31:30 2026
    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god, represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition.


    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of "perfect" and went to heaven on death.˙ If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The
    war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.˙ He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison.˙ Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of the Incarnation aka being in the meat.


    The Albigensians show up in some SF, in particular in Meredith's
    Timeliner trilogy.


    William Hyde

    ` If Kage Baker had thought of it she would have made the Cathar fortress into a Dr.Zeus base hiding behind the religionists...
    Of course that is only my opinion and maybe she did since I seem to
    have missed the majority of that series volumes.

    bliss


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 14 16:57:23 2026
    BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:


    `˙˙˙ If Kage Baker had thought of it she would have made the Cathar
    fortress into a Dr.Zeus base hiding behind the religionists...
    ˙Of course that is only my opinion and maybe she did since I seem to
    have missed the majority of that series volumes.

    So have I, though I liked the two I have read.

    So much to read ...


    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 14 17:21:36 2026
    In article <115mum5$2fsp7$3@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 13/08/2026 11:19 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >>> Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >>> E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one
    around 1800 presumably?

    Yeah .... except they were probably dismissed as Witches or some such.

    Would make sense. I am sure if Jesus came again today, He would be denounced at a peacenik hippie and held down by police while they cut his hair.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 14 21:38:24 2026
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
    news:115o0t0$1jb$1@panix2.panix.com:

    In article <115mum5$2fsp7$3@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 13/08/2026 11:19 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year
    Zero??) Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then
    returned to E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200
    and one around 1800 presumably?

    Yeah .... except they were probably dismissed as Witches or some such.

    Would make sense. I am sure if Jesus came again today, He would be
    denounced at a peacenik hippie and held down by police while they cut
    his hair. --scott

    ICE would have deported him to Zomboanga.

    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet
    poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets
    another asskicking from The One True Melissa

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 14 22:14:33 2026
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
    In article <115mum5$2fsp7$3@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 13/08/2026 11:19 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    "someone descended and returned" "looking for a pattern"

    Buddha born approx 623 B.C.
    Jesus born approx 0 B.C./A.D. (Was there even a Year Zero??) >>>> Muhammad born approx 570 A.D.

    My theory E.T. that visited Earth three times ..... and then returned to >>>> E.T.'s Home Planet each time before returning.

    So about every 600 years. So we should have seen one around 1200 and one >>> around 1800 presumably?

    Yeah .... except they were probably dismissed as Witches or some such.

    Would make sense. I am sure if Jesus came again today, He would be denounced >at a peacenik hippie and held down by police while they cut his hair.

    Well, Joe Smith made his mark; but then there were the
    Branch Davidians and Heaven's Gate....


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bruce@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 15 04:26:56 2026
    The Binky Doctor wrote:

    Do the wrds


    That's not a word, dumb fuck.

    https://myimgs.org/image/joByyZGb

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 15 10:01:37 2026
    The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

    You cannot hold down Jesus.

    Now, THAT would make a good refrain for a gospel song.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 15 08:56:06 2026
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them
    out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern
    Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but

    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of
    grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition.


    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of

    "perfect" and went to heaven on death.? If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors.
    The
    war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab
    southern
    estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they
    increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.? He would have abhorred
    Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed
    back
    in, and died, some said of poison.? Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of
    the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of
    self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that Jesus was
    just of human being. Note that there are entire denominations based on
    the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher, and nothing more, so ...
    confusion ... on this point is nothing to get excited about.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 15 10:31:35 2026
    On 8/15/26 08:56, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain? >>>
    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition.


    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of
    "perfect" and went to heaven on death.˙ If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The >>> war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern >>> estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they
    increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.˙ He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back >>> in, and died, some said of poison.˙ Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >> the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    I thought it was fairly obvious that I am a heretic.
    Jesus aka Reb Jeshua was human and Christ is an old myth with
    many heroes from mythology taking that role.



    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that Jesus was
    just of human being. Note that there are entire denominations based on
    the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher, and nothing more, so ...
    confusion ... on this point is nothing to get excited about.

    Indeed.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 15 15:50:54 2026
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <115nnj6$2p4io$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain? >>
    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of
    "perfect" and went to heaven on death. If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors.
    The war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab
    southern estates.

    Arius had nothing to do with this. He would have abhorred Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison. Orthodox Christians took great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    The Albigensians show up in some SF, in particular in Meredith's
    Timeliner trilogy.


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.

    Mostly Muslim ruled from the early 700s. What percentage of the
    population was Muslim at various times is unclear.

    In the early years a number of Visigothic nobles converted so as to save
    their lands. The sincerity of their conversions can be doubted (they
    had only recently converted from Arian to Catholic), though they did
    wage war against the remnant Christian states of the north.

    Politics frequently trumped religion. Christian-Muslim alliances
    against other Christian or Muslim powers were common. Even Duke Odo of Aquitaine was allied with a Berber lord who was on the outs with the
    Muslim noble who claimed to rule all Iberia. Just as Odo was on the outs
    with Charles Martel.

    William Hyde



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Robert Woodward@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 15 21:58:04 2026
    In article <115qfva$3lkpj$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    The Doctor wrote:

    (Snip!)


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.

    Mostly Muslim ruled from the early 700s. What percentage of the
    population was Muslim at various times is unclear.

    In the early years a number of Visigothic nobles converted so as to save their lands. The sincerity of their conversions can be doubted (they
    had only recently converted from Arian to Catholic), though they did
    wage war against the remnant Christian states of the north.

    Politics frequently trumped religion. Christian-Muslim alliances
    against other Christian or Muslim powers were common. Even Duke Odo of Aquitaine was allied with a Berber lord who was on the outs with the
    Muslim noble who claimed to rule all Iberia. Just as Odo was on the outs with Charles Martel.

    About 3 centuries later (after the collapse of the Caliphate of
    Cordoba), the great Spanish national hero Rodrigo DĦaz de Vivar (aka El
    Cid) served under Islam rulers about as much time he served under
    Christian rulers.

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. ?-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 16 09:55:23 2026
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <115q7pp$3iq3m$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/15/26 08:56, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City >>>>>>> walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and
    at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them
    out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern
    Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s,
    but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against
    the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an
    evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of
    grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS)
    rendition.


    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence
    (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status
    of
    "perfect" and went to heaven on death.˙ If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar
    neighbors. The
    war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab
    southern
    estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they
    increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.˙ He would have abhorred
    Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to
    believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed
    back
    in, and died, some said of poison.˙ Orthodox Christians took
    great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but
    he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery
    of
    the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    I thought it was fairly obvious that I am a heretic.
    Jesus aka Reb Jeshua was human and Christ is an old myth with
    many heroes from mythology taking that role.


    Please explain the Virgin birth.

    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 16 09:57:50 2026
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers >><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City >>>>>> walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and
    at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them
    out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s,
    but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the

    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an
    evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of
    grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS)
    rendition.


    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but

    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status
    of
    "perfect" and went to heaven on death.? If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors.
    The
    war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab
    southern
    estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they >>>increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.? He would have abhorred
    Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe

    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed
    back
    in, and died, some said of poison.? Orthodox Christians took great

    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but
    he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery
    of
    the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of >>self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that Jesus was
    just of human being. Note that there are entire denominations based on
    the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher, and nothing more, so ...
    confusion ... on this point is nothing to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven
    Churches represent different historic periods.

    Another theory is that they are examples of what the Church, and each individual Church, down to each and every congregation, is, and was,
    and will be: a mix of different believers in different states.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 16 15:50:37 2026
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <robertaw-7C31C0.21580415082026@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <115qfva$3lkpj$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    The Doctor wrote:

    (Snip!)


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.

    Mostly Muslim ruled from the early 700s. What percentage of the
    population was Muslim at various times is unclear.

    In the early years a number of Visigothic nobles converted so as to save >>> their lands. The sincerity of their conversions can be doubted (they
    had only recently converted from Arian to Catholic), though they did
    wage war against the remnant Christian states of the north.

    Politics frequently trumped religion. Christian-Muslim alliances
    against other Christian or Muslim powers were common. Even Duke Odo of
    Aquitaine was allied with a Berber lord who was on the outs with the
    Muslim noble who claimed to rule all Iberia. Just as Odo was on the outs >>> with Charles Martel.

    About 3 centuries later (after the collapse of the Caliphate of
    Cordoba), the great Spanish national hero Rodrigo D??az de Vivar (aka El
    Cid) served under Islam rulers about as much time he served under
    Christian rulers.


    Such is Holy War.

    No, that was secular war.

    Which is the point of the previous two posts. Religious wars often
    change into secular wars. As in the 30 years war where Catholic France weighed in on the Protestant side, because an Austrian/Spanish victory
    would be bad for France while the Protestant Dutch helped France repress
    it's own Protestants because they needed French support for the wider war.

    And the Spanish allowed their enemies, the Dutch, to run the Spanish
    coastal trade because they themselves could not, and the Dutch did this because they needed the money from Spain to fight Spain.


    William Hyde


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 16 13:38:08 2026
    On 8/16/26 09:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <115q7pp$3iq3m$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/15/26 08:56, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the City >>>>>>>> walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French >>>>>>>> crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and at >>>>>>>> which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them out". >>>>>>>
    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s, but >>>>>> there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against the >>>>>> Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an evil >>>>>> one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of grace >>>>>> (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition. >>>>>

    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence (but >>>>>> wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the status of >>>>>> "perfect" and went to heaven on death.?˙ If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar neighbors. The >>>>>> war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern >>>>>> estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they
    increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.?˙ He would have abhorred Catharism, >>>>>> and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to believe >>>>>> that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire, allowed back >>>>>> in, and died, some said of poison.?˙ Orthodox Christians took great >>>>>> delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he >>>>>> was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery of >>>>> the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    I thought it was fairly obvious that I am a heretic.
    Jesus aka Reb Jeshua was human and Christ is an old myth with
    many heroes from mythology taking that role.


    Please explain the Virgin birth.

    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.

    The Virgin Birth is an RC and maybe Orthodox doctrine that
    alleges that God was present in Jesus and that only a virgin could
    be worthy of such birth. Some say that the child emerged from her
    side, that she was impregnated by Divine Action. Further that
    G*d had intervened to free Mary from the taint of Original Sin.

    But in those times a Virgin was an independent woman not
    subjected to the authority of a husband. Not necessarily a
    virgo intacto or woman who had not had intercourse.
    A particular strain of heresy, not mine, states that
    Mary was a temple virgin and thus open to sacred prostitution
    and that the father of Jesus was a Greek soldier.

    i also fail to believe in Original Sin or the Doctrine
    that through disobedience to divine orders, Eve or Zoe ate an
    apple by which she became aware of the difference between good
    and evil. I believe that people are naturally selfish and
    self-centered.
    As for Sin a former moon god of Babylon who was believed
    to be the father of all children he has been downgraded to the
    the alleged inconvenience caused to others by our selfish
    actions. Now I can readily understand how I by my actions and
    others can inconvenience myself and others but looking out
    upon the vast universe which G*d is alleged to be responsible
    for I doubt very much that my actions could ever bother
    that deity in the slightest. So I doubt that any order against
    eating from the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge could
    bother that One.

    I believe that doctrine of Original Sin is the merest patriarchal invention to help ensure the subjection of women
    to male authority.

    Remember that I believe in evolution and that original
    state of womankind and man was ignorance. Stories were invented
    to explain anything of interest as soon as homo sapiens or homo
    sapiens sapiens evolved/invented language. These stories if
    they satisfied some need were repeated through oral recitation.

    We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present. Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    People who benefit from that hierarchical order feel
    that civilization will collapse if they do not have lower
    ranked people to push around physically or verbally.

    I am an agnostic Deist but if any divinity rules
    human society it must be Eris who controls the counsels
    of mankind.

    bliss - study, practice, experience.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 17 09:05:12 2026
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:38:08 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 09:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:


    <snippo mostly confused bits and pieces. sorry about that, but that's
    how I see it.>

    Please explain the Virgin birth.

    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.

    The Virgin Birth is an RC and maybe Orthodox doctrine that
    alleges that God was present in Jesus and that only a virgin could
    be worthy of such birth. Some say that the child emerged from her
    side, that she was impregnated by Divine Action. Further that
    G*d had intervened to free Mary from the taint of Original Sin.

    It is rather more general than that. At least, in official doctrine.

    But in those times a Virgin was an independent woman not
    subjected to the authority of a husband. Not necessarily a
    virgo intacto or woman who had not had intercourse.

    There was no such thing as an "independent woman". This was the time
    of the /real/ Traditiional Family Values, and there was /always/ a man
    holding her leash: a father, a husband, a brother, an uncle, a son ...
    always.

    This is based on Isaiah, and the Hebrew there means "young woman".

    <snippo as much babbling as possible>

    We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present. Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    Your faith in the reality of those explanations is touching.

    People who benefit from that hierarchical order feel
    that civilization will collapse if they do not have lower
    ranked people to push around physically or verbally.

    That's actually not a bad summary. Except that "heirarchical" is
    inherently religious (see derivation) and so limited in scope and "civilization" is often claimed but rarely defined.

    I am an agnostic Deist but if any divinity rules
    human society it must be Eris who controls the counsels
    of mankind.

    Classic deists don't believe God is present in the world at all and
    are monotheists[1] so, for them, no other gods exist.


    [1] I'm not sure "monodeist" is ever used. The confusion, of course,
    is because some terms use Latin /deus/ and others use Greek /theos/
    for "God".

    Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Contemporary_Deism>

    but I don't think believing in other gods, such as Eris, fits well
    into any of them.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 17 09:15:33 2026
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 18:43:34 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <9sq38lhiuee8gc0uue4r5ethms1u9mo62l@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers >>>><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the
    City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the French >>>>>>>> crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France and
    at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort them
    out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of
    Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the 700s,
    but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against
    the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an
    evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real god, >>>>>> represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life of
    grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS)
    rendition.


    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence
    (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the
    status of
    "perfect" and went to heaven on death.? If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the
    casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar
    neighbors. The
    war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern
    estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they >>>>>increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.? He would have abhorred
    Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to
    believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire,
    allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison.? Orthodox Christians took
    great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but
    he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the mystery
    of
    the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the >>>>Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of >>>>self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that Jesus
    was
    just of human being. Note that there are entire denominations based
    on
    the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher, and nothing more, so ... >>>>confusion ... on this point is nothing to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven
    Churches represent different historic periods.

    Another theory is that they are examples of what the Church, and each >>individual Church, down to each and every congregation, is, and was,
    and will be: a mix of different believers in different states.

    If it is propecised, it is done.

    Well, yes, but is it? Or is "prophesy" merely a (very popular)
    interpretation? Which may be in error, who can say?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 17 09:17:12 2026
    On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 14:37:28 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <115uoho$trf9$1@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 17/08/2026 2:57 am, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:
    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>, Paul S
    Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:

    <Snip>

    Arius had nothing to do with this. He would have abhorred
    Catharism, and he lived in the time of Constantine. His
    "heresy" was to believe that JC was a created being. He was
    exiled from the empire, allowed back in, and died, some said
    of poison. Orthodox Christians took great delight in
    inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the
    mystery of the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of
    self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that
    Jesus was just of human being. Note that there are entire
    denominations based on the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher,
    and nothing more, so ... confusion ... on this point is nothing
    to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    And where does YOUR Church fit in here, Binky(Word used by paedophiles
    to indicate their joy of child sexual molestation)??

    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven
    Churches represent different historic periods.

    Sorry!! "the Seven Churches"?? What are they, please??

    The seven churches Paul writes to in Asia minor now modern day Turkey.

    Jesus did the writing, but otherwise you are correct.

    The letters are found in the first few chapters of Revelation.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 17 09:21:30 2026
    On 8/17/26 09:05, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:38:08 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 09:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:


    <snippo mostly confused bits and pieces. sorry about that, but that's
    how I see it.>

    Please explain the Virgin birth.

    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.

    The Virgin Birth is an RC and maybe Orthodox doctrine that
    alleges that God was present in Jesus and that only a virgin could
    be worthy of such birth. Some say that the child emerged from her
    side, that she was impregnated by Divine Action. Further that
    G*d had intervened to free Mary from the taint of Original Sin.

    It is rather more general than that. At least, in official doctrine.

    But in those times a Virgin was an independent woman not
    subjected to the authority of a husband. Not necessarily a
    virgo intacto or woman who had not had intercourse.

    There was no such thing as an "independent woman". This was the time
    of the /real/ Traditiional Family Values, and there was /always/ a man holding her leash: a father, a husband, a brother, an uncle, a son ... always.

    This is based on Isaiah, and the Hebrew there means "young woman".

    <snippo as much babbling as possible>

    We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present. Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    Your faith in the reality of those explanations is touching.

    People who benefit from that hierarchical order feel
    that civilization will collapse if they do not have lower
    ranked people to push around physically or verbally.

    That's actually not a bad summary. Except that "heirarchical" is
    inherently religious (see derivation) and so limited in scope and "civilization" is often claimed but rarely defined.

    hierarchical order is most clearly experienced not only in religion but
    in the Military organizations.


    I am an agnostic Deist but if any divinity rules
    human society it must be Eris who controls the counsels
    of mankind.

    Classic deists don't believe God is present in the world at all and
    are monotheists[1] so, for them, no other gods exist.

    I am not even classy, much less Classical in any sense.


    [1] I'm not sure "monodeist" is ever used. The confusion, of course,
    is because some terms use Latin /deus/ and others use Greek /theos/
    for "God".

    And Thea was earlier, the Goddess Themis representing law and ordered society

    Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Contemporary_Deism>

    but I don't think believing in other gods, such as Eris, fits well
    into any of them.

    Who cares about fitting into any system, Eris is a metaphor for the disputatious nature of mankind. She is, recall, the Goddess who tossed
    the golden apple to Paris to be awarded to the most beautiful of
    the Goddesses there assembled which sparked the Trojan War.

    Since she is female she is another patriarchal scapegoat as well. Men are always blaming women for their own sexual drives and disputes.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 17 15:32:28 2026
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <115t4ar$eqpr$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <robertaw-7C31C0.21580415082026@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <115qfva$3lkpj$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    The Doctor wrote:

    (Snip!)


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.

    Mostly Muslim ruled from the early 700s. What percentage of the
    population was Muslim at various times is unclear.

    In the early years a number of Visigothic nobles converted so as to save >>>>> their lands. The sincerity of their conversions can be doubted (they >>>>> had only recently converted from Arian to Catholic), though they did >>>>> wage war against the remnant Christian states of the north.

    Politics frequently trumped religion. Christian-Muslim alliances
    against other Christian or Muslim powers were common. Even Duke Odo of >>>>> Aquitaine was allied with a Berber lord who was on the outs with the >>>>> Muslim noble who claimed to rule all Iberia. Just as Odo was on the outs >>>>> with Charles Martel.

    About 3 centuries later (after the collapse of the Caliphate of
    Cordoba), the great Spanish national hero Rodrigo D?Ÿ??az de Vivar (aka El >>>> Cid) served under Islam rulers about as much time he served under
    Christian rulers.


    Such is Holy War.

    No, that was secular war.

    Which is the point of the previous two posts. Religious wars often
    change into secular wars. As in the 30 years war where Catholic France
    weighed in on the Protestant side, because an Austrian/Spanish victory
    would be bad for France while the Protestant Dutch helped France repress
    it's own Protestants because they needed French support for the wider war. >>
    And the Spanish allowed their enemies, the Dutch, to run the Spanish
    coastal trade because they themselves could not, and the Dutch did this
    because they needed the money from Spain to fight Spain.


    William Hyde


    Ever read Doctor Who : The Massacre of St. Bartholomew?

    No. I've only read works of history on that day and that time.

    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Your Name@3:633/10 to All on Tue Aug 18 11:39:38 2026
    On 2026-08-17 10:41:57 +0000, Daniel70 said:
    On 17/08/2026 2:57 am, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The
    Doctor) wrote:
    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>, Paul S
    Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:

    <Snip>

    Arius had nothing to do with this. He would have abhorred
    Catharism, and he lived in the time of Constantine. His
    "heresy" was to believe that JC was a created being. He was
    exiled from the empire, allowed back in, and died, some said
    of poison. Orthodox Christians took great delight in
    inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him, but he was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the
    mystery of the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the
    Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of
    self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that
    Jesus was just of human being. Note that there are entire
    denominations based on the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher,
    and nothing more, so ... confusion ... on this point is nothing
    to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    And where does YOUR Church fit in here, Binky??

    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven
    Churches represent different historic periods.

    Sorry!! "the Seven Churches"?? What are they, please??

    From Mr Google:

    The Seven Churches of Revelation, also known as the Seven Churches
    of the Apocalypse and the Seven Churches of Asia, are seven churches
    of early Christianity mentioned in the Book of Revelation, part of
    the New Testament. All of them were located in then-Greek-speaking
    Anatolia, and currently sit within the borders of present-day Turkey.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_churches_of_Asia>





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 17 20:08:06 2026
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <115vnkd$18t03$2@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <115t4ar$eqpr$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <robertaw-7C31C0.21580415082026@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <115qfva$3lkpj$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    The Doctor wrote:

    (Snip!)


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.

    Mostly Muslim ruled from the early 700s. What percentage of the >>>>>>> population was Muslim at various times is unclear.

    In the early years a number of Visigothic nobles converted so as to save
    their lands. The sincerity of their conversions can be doubted (they >>>>>>> had only recently converted from Arian to Catholic), though they did >>>>>>> wage war against the remnant Christian states of the north.

    Politics frequently trumped religion. Christian-Muslim alliances >>>>>>> against other Christian or Muslim powers were common. Even Duke Odo of >>>>>>> Aquitaine was allied with a Berber lord who was on the outs with the >>>>>>> Muslim noble who claimed to rule all Iberia. Just as Odo was on the outs
    with Charles Martel.

    About 3 centuries later (after the collapse of the Caliphate of
    Cordoba), the great Spanish national hero Rodrigo D?Ÿ’?????az de
    Vivar (aka El
    Cid) served under Islam rulers about as much time he served under
    Christian rulers.


    Such is Holy War.

    No, that was secular war.

    Which is the point of the previous two posts. Religious wars often
    change into secular wars. As in the 30 years war where Catholic France >>>> weighed in on the Protestant side, because an Austrian/Spanish victory >>>> would be bad for France while the Protestant Dutch helped France repress >>>> it's own Protestants because they needed French support for the wider war. >>>>
    And the Spanish allowed their enemies, the Dutch, to run the Spanish
    coastal trade because they themselves could not, and the Dutch did this >>>> because they needed the money from Spain to fight Spain.


    William Hyde


    Ever read Doctor Who : The Massacre of St. Bartholomew?

    No. I've only read works of history on that day and that time.


    It is a rather intresting book.

    It does explain the British psyche against the RCC.

    That's a much more complicated issue.

    I had an uncle whose paternal line left Europe for England shortly
    after, and because of, St Barts. Given where they lived, it proved to
    be a good idea.

    William Hyde


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue Aug 18 08:55:12 2026
    On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 09:21:30 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    <snippo>
    hierarchical order is most clearly experienced not only in religion but

    in the Military organizations.

    Again: check the derivation. The original meaning was religious.

    It was later broadened to any ranked organization, not just military,
    but governmental as well.

    But you appear to be applying it to society as a whole. The fact that
    1%-ers act to maintain their dominance does not make society a
    hierarchy.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue Aug 18 09:04:17 2026
    On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 16:33:36 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <tbc68l154vev3a5qne9p7b5d6bbduhbkis@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 18:43:34 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <9sq38lhiuee8gc0uue4r5ethms1u9mo62l@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:37:37 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <he218ltdungk393uteva42aktr7tbdrgt8@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 14 Aug 2026 12:31:30 -0700, BobbieSellers >>>>>><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/14/26 11:42, William Hyde wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:
    On 14/08/2026 5:27 am, BobbieSellers wrote:


    You leave out Arius who was skinned and his hide hung on the
    City
    walls, he was responsible for the Arian heresy which the
    French
    crusade wiped out by killing everyone in the South of France
    and at
    which the memorable phrase "Kill them all and let God sort
    them out".

    Wasn't South France widely Muslim ... or am I thinking of
    Southern Spain?

    A part of Southern France was under Muslim occupation in the
    700s, but
    there wasn't much conversion.

    The crusade referred to is the anti-Albigensian crusade, against
    the
    Cathars, dualists who believed that the old testament god was an
    evil
    one who created the world for us to suffer in while the real
    god,
    represented by JC would welcome our souls once we lived a life
    of grace
    (and we got an infinite number of chances).

    Thanks to your numerous corrections to my confused (by RC HS) rendition.


    Cathars were to attempt to abstain from sex, meat, and violence
    (but
    wine was OK) and if they succeeded in this they attained the
    status of
    "perfect" and went to heaven on death.? If not, try again.

    While the Cathars were wiped out or dispersed, the bulk of the >>>>>>>> casualties were local Catholics who defended their Cathar
    neighbors. The
    war became a religious pretext for landless northerners to grab southern
    estates.

    Well some of them had estates by which murders of the locals they

    increased.


    Arius had nothing to do with this.? He would have abhorred
    Catharism,
    and he lived in the time of Constantine. His "heresy" was to
    believe
    that JC was a created being. He was exiled from the empire,
    allowed back
    in, and died, some said of poison.? Orthodox Christians took
    great
    delight in inventing a painful and embarrassing death for him,
    but he
    was never skinned.

    Jesus not the Christ was a created being. It is part of the
    mystery of
    the Incarnation aka being in the meat.

    If that is your memory of RC theology, you may want to find the >>>>>>Catholic Encyclopedia on line and give it a read on this topic.

    Then again, a recent report on a survey had more than half of >>>>>>self-indentified Evangelicals agreeing with a statement that Jesus
    was
    just of human being. Note that there are entire denominations based
    on
    the idea that Jesus was a Great Teacher, and nothing more, so ... >>>>>>confusion ... on this point is nothing to get excited about.

    Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity.

    The RCC is the propecied Church of Thyatira.

    That is one theory, yes. It is based on the idea that the Seven >>>>Churches represent different historic periods.

    Another theory is that they are examples of what the Church, and each >>>>individual Church, down to each and every congregation, is, and was, >>>>and will be: a mix of different believers in different states.

    If it is propecised, it is done.

    Well, yes, but is it? Or is "prophesy" merely a (very popular) >>interpretation? Which may be in error, who can say?

    Thell me which propesies of the Bile are false?

    Nice moving-of-the-goalposts!

    I did not dispute the prophecy the letter contains. It is the
    historical interpretation -- something /not/ in the Bible -- that I
    point out is only one of at least two theories about these letters.

    What /you/ need is something /in the Bible/ that supports the
    historical interpretation. To be fully effective, it must state that,
    by Thyatira stands for the Roman Catholic Church.

    Without it you have a theory, but not a prophecy equating Thyatira to
    Rome.

    Good hunting!
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Tue Aug 18 16:10:27 2026
    In article <gjv88ltamsuftmto7tjgqg1a5g8h27ae42@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    But you appear to be applying it to society
    as a whole. The fact that 1%-ers act to
    maintain their dominance does not make
    society a hierarchy.

    Mind seems a hierarchical re-presentation of an
    alleged reality. It makes sense there might seem
    to be hierarchification in such a context.
    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | usenet verdict on adam h kerman |
    | fuckchop+idiot+kook+scumbag+troll |
    ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Tue Aug 18 13:28:02 2026
    On 8/17/26 09:05, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:38:08 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/16/26 09:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 01:44:21 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:


    <snippo mostly confused bits and pieces. sorry about that, but that's
    how I see it.>

    Please explain the Virgin birth.

    Given her point of view, I would say she just did.

    The Virgin Birth is an RC and maybe Orthodox doctrine that
    alleges that God was present in Jesus and that only a virgin could
    be worthy of such birth. Some say that the child emerged from her
    side, that she was impregnated by Divine Action. Further that
    G*d had intervened to free Mary from the taint of Original Sin.

    It is rather more general than that. At least, in official doctrine.

    But in those times a Virgin was an independent woman not
    subjected to the authority of a husband. Not necessarily a
    virgo intacto or woman who had not had intercourse.

    There was no such thing as an "independent woman". This was the time
    of the /real/ Traditiional Family Values, and there was /always/ a man holding her leash: a father, a husband, a brother, an uncle, a son ... always.

    Actually there were independent women in every era no matter
    how the Society of the time attempted to repress them. Suppression
    of the stories of their lives is part of patriarchal oppression.
    It is like saying that there were no women artists or composers before
    modern times.


    This is based on Isaiah, and the Hebrew there means "young woman".

    <snippo as much babbling as possible>

    We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present. Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    Your faith in the reality of those explanations is touching.

    I read the bible in 3 evangelical churches and in RC HS so I
    know what it says and how phony it is.

    People who benefit from that hierarchical order feel
    that civilization will collapse if they do not have lower
    ranked people to push around physically or verbally.

    That's actually not a bad summary. Except that "heirarchical" is
    inherently religious (see derivation) and so limited in scope and "civilization" is often claimed but rarely defined.

    USA present day, on top white men of wealth, next down white women of wealth, less wealthy people, poor white people, poor people who
    are not white.



    I am an agnostic Deist but if any divinity rules
    human society it must be Eris who controls the counsels
    of mankind.

    Classic deists don't believe God is present in the world at all and
    are monotheists[1] so, for them, no other gods exist.

    In no way except age am I classic. How could anyone tell if G*d is in the world. We are evolved creatures and we evolved to survive as
    did the rest of the Universe. Almost everyone who really sees thru one
    method or another their Deity suffers from impairment of survival.

    Does time exist? Most people take it for granted but the supreme personification of time is Kali whom most misunderstand as a murdering
    witch. Or you could call it Chronos or Saturn, all eat all their
    children. Pancreator = Panphage.



    [1] I'm not sure "monodeist" is ever used. The confusion, of course,
    is because some terms use Latin /deus/ and others use Greek /theos/
    for "God".

    Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Contemporary_Deism>

    but I don't think believing in other gods, such as Eris, fits well
    into any of them.

    Who believes? As the Shinto priests say they have no dogma but they dance. The world is full of people who claim belief but then act
    in ways contrary to the teachings that they are supposed to be following.

    Agnostics just don't know. Deists hope there was an author.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Tue Aug 18 20:42:44 2026
    The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    But you appear to be applying it to society as a whole. The fact that >>1%-ers act to maintain their dominance does not make society a
    hierarchy.

    But did Jesus call for hierarchies?

    No, but Paul did.
    --scott


    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 19 08:51:39 2026
    BobbieSellers wrote:

    The world is full of people who claim belief but then
    act in ways contrary to the teachings that they are
    supposed to be following.

    Bingo!

    It's the biggest problem I have with a lot of religious
    people.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 19 13:04:58 2026
    Daniel70 wrote:

    I read the Lesson in two regional Roman Catholic
    Churches about fifteen times a year.

    Congratulations, here's your no-prize...

    The bad news is, you're still going to Hell.

    See you there mate...

    :-)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 19 14:47:46 2026
    doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) writes:
    what it says and how phony it is.

    Sorry! "RC HS"??

    I read the Lesson in two regional Roman Catholic Churches about fifteen >>times a year.

    Roman Cathlolic Hierarchical system IIRC.

    High school.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 19 08:26:45 2026
    On 8/19/26 02:56, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 19/08/2026 6:28 am, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/17/26 09:05, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:38:08 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    <Snip>

    ˙˙˙˙We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present.˙ Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    Your faith in the reality of those explanations is touching.

    ˙˙˙˙˙I read the bible in 3 evangelical churches and in RC HS so I
    know what it says and how phony it is.

    Sorry! "RC HS"??

    I read the Lesson in two regional Roman Catholic Churches about fifteen times a year.

    Roman Catholic High School

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 19 08:34:13 2026
    On 8/19/26 06:04, Blueshirt wrote:
    Daniel70 wrote:

    I read the Lesson in two regional Roman Catholic
    Churches about fifteen times a year.

    Congratulations, here's your no-prize...

    The bad news is, you're still going to Hell.

    See you there mate...

    :-)

    We are there already or in Heaven already depending
    on how you experience a world where murder is an everyday
    affair and the peoples who like to consider themselves the
    chosen of G*d are up to their elbows in blood. ;^|

    Even the Buddhists have their factions.

    bliss- study, practice, experience

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 19 12:14:00 2026
    On 8/19/2026 5:56 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 19/08/2026 6:28 am, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/17/26 09:05, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:38:08 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    <Snip>

    ˙˙˙˙We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present.˙ Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    Your faith in the reality of those explanations is touching.

    ˙˙˙˙˙I read the bible in 3 evangelical churches and in RC HS so I
    know what it says and how phony it is.

    Sorry! "RC HS"??

    Roman Catholic High School.>
    I read the Lesson in two regional Roman Catholic Churches about fifteen times a year.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 19 09:25:18 2026
    On Tue, 18 Aug 2026 13:28:02 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/17/26 09:05, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:38:08 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    <snippo stuff before and after>
    <the "hierarchy" in USA society>
    USA present day, on top white men of wealth, next down white women of
    wealth, less wealthy people, poor white people, poor people who
    are not white.

    That is not a heirarchy. This would be a hierarchy

    1. The one and only 1%er. Note: at the top of any hierarchy, there can
    be only one.
    2. Every 2%-er reports to the 1% for orders, and follows them. Note:
    in a hierarchy, everybody except the top person is subordinate to
    someone, and does what they are told. Well, their are supposed to,
    anyway.
    3. And so forth. A place for everyone -- and everyone in their place.
    Note: a hierarchy includes /everyone in the organization/, whether
    they like it or not.

    What you are describing is a social system based, not on class but on
    wealth.

    There are, however societies that /can be described as hierarchies, in
    the sense "ruled by the high priest" (the original meaning, it
    appears):
    Iran -- although the Supreme Leader is a Muslim cleric, he is on top
    and he is a religious leader.
    North Korea -- although a Communist country, the leader heads a /cult
    of personality/. And "cult" is a term with heavy religious
    associations. [1]

    The USA, however, is not one of them. Except for MAGA, perhaps.

    [1] And the leader is a Friend of Trump, as Trump himself just
    reaffirmed. The Republicans are trying to paint the Dems as Reds (that
    is, communists) but their ever-more-clearly fearful Leader is best
    buds with one. Do they /really/ think this will work? We shall see, in November.

    The Wikipedia article
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality> is quite
    interesting, documenting how these things occur just about anywhere in
    any political system, including failed states (discussed here <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state>. It might be worth
    running down the list of Failed State Characteristics andconsidering
    how far from being a failed state the USA is today.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 19 09:32:12 2026
    On Wed, 19 Aug 2026 19:56:09 +1000, Daniel70
    <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

    On 19/08/2026 6:28 am, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/17/26 09:05, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:38:08 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    <Snip>

    ????We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present.? Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    Your faith in the reality of those explanations is touching.

    ????I read the bible in 3 evangelical churches and in RC HS
    so I
    know what it says and how phony it is.

    Sorry! "RC HS"??

    This being bliss, I would say "Roman Catholic High School" is what it
    meant.

    I read the Lesson in two regional Roman Catholic Churches about fifteen >times a year.

    I don't think she was referring to reading pericopes in public,
    although that is certainly possible. I think she is saying that she
    has read more than a little of it. Possibly a lot more.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 19 16:24:01 2026
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <11607ph$1e5pn$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <115vnkd$18t03$2@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <115t4ar$eqpr$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    The Doctor wrote:
    In article <robertaw-7C31C0.21580415082026@news.individual.net>, >>>>>>> Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <115qfva$3lkpj$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    The Doctor wrote:

    (Snip!)


    Iberia was muslim at the start of the 11th Century.

    Mostly Muslim ruled from the early 700s. What percentage of the >>>>>>>>> population was Muslim at various times is unclear.

    In the early years a number of Visigothic nobles converted so as to save
    their lands. The sincerity of their conversions can be doubted (they
    had only recently converted from Arian to Catholic), though they did >>>>>>>>> wage war against the remnant Christian states of the north.

    Politics frequently trumped religion. Christian-Muslim alliances >>>>>>>>> against other Christian or Muslim powers were common. Even Duke Odo of
    Aquitaine was allied with a Berber lord who was on the outs with the >>>>>>>>> Muslim noble who claimed to rule all Iberia. Just as Odo was on the outs
    with Charles Martel.

    About 3 centuries later (after the collapse of the Caliphate of >>>>>>>> Cordoba), the great Spanish national hero Rodrigo
    D?Ÿ’???ƒ???Ÿƒ??????az de
    Vivar (aka El
    Cid) served under Islam rulers about as much time he served under >>>>>>>> Christian rulers.


    Such is Holy War.

    No, that was secular war.

    Which is the point of the previous two posts. Religious wars often >>>>>> change into secular wars. As in the 30 years war where Catholic France >>>>>> weighed in on the Protestant side, because an Austrian/Spanish victory >>>>>> would be bad for France while the Protestant Dutch helped France repress >>>>>> it's own Protestants because they needed French support for the wider war.

    And the Spanish allowed their enemies, the Dutch, to run the Spanish >>>>>> coastal trade because they themselves could not, and the Dutch did this >>>>>> because they needed the money from Spain to fight Spain.


    William Hyde


    Ever read Doctor Who : The Massacre of St. Bartholomew?

    No. I've only read works of history on that day and that time.


    It is a rather intresting book.

    It does explain the British psyche against the RCC.

    That's a much more complicated issue.

    I had an uncle whose paternal line left Europe for England shortly
    after, and because of, St Barts. Given where they lived, it proved to
    be a good idea.


    You got my point.

    He never mentioned it until I was middle aged. It was a point of
    interest, no more, in a very interesting family history. The family
    origin story, you might say.

    The only raving anti-catholic in my extended family was an ignoramus who doubtless never heard of St Barts and was probably hazy on the location
    of France. He was an evil enough bastard that his descendants were
    not prone to share his opinions about anything. I believe that he was an ex-catholic himself.

    As I said, it's complicated.

    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 20 09:08:00 2026
    William Hyde wrote:

    The only raving anti-catholic in my extended family was
    an ignoramus who doubtless never heard of St Barts and
    was probably hazy on the location of France.

    I believe that he was an ex-catholic himself.

    They're the worst. Look at Henry VIII!

    As I said, it's complicated.

    The Tudors would probably agree with you.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 20 09:33:02 2026
    Paul S Person wrote:

    On Wed, 19 Aug 2026 19:56:09 +1000, Daniel70
    <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

    I read the Lesson in two regional Roman Catholic Churches
    about fifteen times a year.

    I don't think she was referring to reading pericopes in public,
    although that is certainly possible.

    I think she is saying that she has read more than a little of
    it. Possibly a lot more.

    The more of it you read, the more you see how silly it all is.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 20 08:42:54 2026
    On Thu, 20 Aug 2026 02:52:25 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>

    Sorry! "RC HS"??

    This being bliss, I would say "Roman Catholic High School" is what it >>meant.

    I read the Lesson in two regional Roman Catholic Churches about
    fifteen
    times a year.

    I don't think she was referring to reading pericopes in public,
    although that is certainly possible. I think she is saying that she

    Are you from the USA?

    Why, yes. Seattle, in fact.

    When I was growing up, one of the Roosevelt High School (the mascot
    was a bear, guess which Roosevelt it was named after) sports chants
    was "Boo Blanchet!".

    Blanchet was the local RC High School.

    has read more than a little of it. Possibly a lot more.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 20 17:07:48 2026
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
    On Thu, 20 Aug 2026 02:52:25 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>

    Sorry! "RC HS"??

    This being bliss, I would say "Roman Catholic High School" is what it >>>meant.


    When I was growing up, one of the Roosevelt High School (the mascot
    was a bear, guess which Roosevelt it was named after) sports chants
    was "Boo Blanchet!".

    Prior to the 1970s, there was a great deal of anti-catholicism
    in the united states. To the extent that protestant parents
    would not attend their son's wedding when he married a Catholic girl
    in the 1950s. There was also a lot of controversy when JFK was
    elected over the potential that the pope[*] may influence US politics.

    Fortunately, the USA is more secular now than at any point in the
    past. Although the current administration and the goofy red party
    are trying their best to reverse that (e.g. Texas).


    [*] Anyone who has really studied history learns that most popes
    were ambitious and power-mad and absent a few (Francis), not particuarly interested in the poor.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 09:51:18 2026
    Scott Lurndal wrote:

    Anyone who has really studied history learns that most
    popes were ambitious and power-mad and absent a few (Francis),
    not particuarly interested in the poor.

    I assume that's because the poor didn't have enough wealth to
    make very generous donations... so the power mad pontiffs
    preferred to focus on enriching the Vatican first.

    However, it's the economically vulnerable believers that sustain
    religious institutions through their faith and giving what
    little they do have. The whole house of cards would collapse
    without the gullible poor. Their simplicity makes them
    believers... and believers sustain the racket.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 03:13:43 2026
    On Thu, 20 Aug 2026 17:07:48 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
    wrote:

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
    On Thu, 20 Aug 2026 02:52:25 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>

    Sorry! "RC HS"??

    This being bliss, I would say "Roman Catholic High School" is what it >>>>meant.


    When I was growing up, one of the Roosevelt High School (the mascot
    was a bear, guess which Roosevelt it was named after) sports chants
    was "Boo Blanchet!".

    Prior to the 1970s, there was a great deal of anti-catholicism
    in the united states. To the extent that protestant parents
    would not attend their son's wedding when he married a Catholic girl
    in the 1950s. There was also a lot of controversy when JFK was
    elected over the potential that the pope[*] may influence US politics.

    Fortunately, the USA is more secular now than at any point in the
    past. Although the current administration and the goofy red party
    are trying their best to reverse that (e.g. Texas).

    The only "red" party I am aware of is the Republican Party.

    Red State. Red County. Red District.

    And their leader is a good friend of a Commie (by his own admission).

    Trust me on this -- the Republicans are doing far more to ensure their
    defeat in November than anyone else is.

    Whether this will change Texas and other extremist Red states remains
    to be seen.

    [*] Anyone who has really studied history learns that most popes
    were ambitious and power-mad and absent a few (Francis), not particuarly >interested in the poor.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 03:14:56 2026
    On Fri, 21 Aug 2026 09:51:18 GMT, "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news>
    wrote:

    Scott Lurndal wrote:

    Anyone who has really studied history learns that most
    popes were ambitious and power-mad and absent a few (Francis),
    not particuarly interested in the poor.

    I assume that's because the poor didn't have enough wealth to
    make very generous donations... so the power mad pontiffs
    preferred to focus on enriching the Vatican first.

    However, it's the economically vulnerable believers that sustain
    religious institutions through their faith and giving what
    little they do have. The whole house of cards would collapse
    without the gullible poor. Their simplicity makes them
    believers... and believers sustain the racket.

    Yeah, yeah, we've all heard of Marx.

    So, what else is new?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Blueshirt@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 12:07:37 2026
    Paul S Person wrote:

    On Fri, 21 Aug 2026 09:51:18 GMT, "Blueshirt"
    <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:

    Scott Lurndal wrote:

    Anyone who has really studied history learns that most
    popes were ambitious and power-mad and absent a few
    (Francis), not particuarly interested in the poor.

    I assume that's because the poor didn't have enough wealth to
    make very generous donations... so the power mad pontiffs
    preferred to focus on enriching the Vatican first.

    However, it's the economically vulnerable believers that
    sustain religious institutions through their faith and
    giving what little they do have. The whole house of cards
    would collapse without the gullible poor. Their simplicity
    makes them believers... and believers sustain the racket.

    Yeah, yeah, we've all heard of Marx.

    So, what else is new?

    Nothing, it's a story as old as the hills. That's why the
    organised religions still exist today... and are not short of
    money. Gullible weak-minded fools need the crutch of something
    to believe in and will happily put what they can spare into the
    basket when it comes around.

    Which is why some people like to form their own religions (re
    the L.Ron Hubbard thread subject), as at the end of the day it's
    all about the money. It's the $ that keeps these fake
    institutions alive and enriches the creators/organisers/leaders.
    If there was no money in religions, they wouldn't be there!

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 09:55:13 2026
    Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
    Scott Lurndal wrote:

    Anyone who has really studied history learns that most
    popes were ambitious and power-mad and absent a few (Francis),
    not particuarly interested in the poor.

    I assume that's because the poor didn't have enough wealth to
    make very generous donations... so the power mad pontiffs
    preferred to focus on enriching the Vatican first.

    The catholic Catholic church is both a political and a religious organization and there have been times when the political part has overruled the religious part. We've been getting away from that at least since John Paul II but
    these things come and go.

    However, it's the economically vulnerable believers that sustain
    religious institutions through their faith and giving what
    little they do have. The whole house of cards would collapse
    without the gullible poor. Their simplicity makes them
    believers... and believers sustain the racket.

    I worked for a "Christian" broadcaster for a while and they had a regular program with Reverend Ike. He is exactly the kind of person that Jesus
    tossed out of the temple. So was the station manager.
    --scott


    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 08:17:41 2026
    On 8/21/26 02:29, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 20/08/2026 2:32 am, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 19 Aug 2026 19:56:09 +1000, Daniel70
    <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 19/08/2026 6:28 am, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/17/26 09:05, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 16 Aug 2026 13:38:08 -0700, BobbieSellers
    <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    <Snip>

    ˙˙˙˙˙We moved from stories to real explanations for natural
    phenomenon from the 17th century through the present.˙ Some
    people who derives power from the stone age stores resist
    these explanations which still give men power over women at
    the least and impose a hierarchical order on society.

    Your faith in the reality of those explanations is touching.

    ˙ ˙˙˙˙I read the bible in 3 evangelical churches and in RC HS so I
    know what it says and how phony it is.

    Sorry! "RC HS"??

    This being bliss, I would say "Roman Catholic High School" is what it
    meant.

    I read the Lesson in two regional Roman Catholic Churches about fifteen
    times a year.

    I don't think she was referring to reading pericopes in public,
    although that is certainly possible. I think she is saying that she
    has read more than a little of it. Possibly a lot more.

    "I read the bible in 3 evangelical churches" could mean she, silently,
    reads the Books of The Bible whilst at Services .... I don't/didn't know.

    We studied and we memorized. Verses that supported
    the particular viewpoint of the particular institution.
    I particularly remember though the singing in the
    first one I remember. We sang "Jesus loves the Little Children
    of the World Red and Yellow, Black and White they are precious
    in his sight."

    White Nationalist domination was right out with that
    little non-denominational gathering in the Sacramento Valley
    in the 1940s.

    Then in Fallon, Nevada and in the next in Yuba City
    we were taught if we did not believe as the pastors did that
    we must be damned to the Hell of burning fire for eternity.

    The RC HS tossed in Purgatory for the repentant sinners.

    And besides reading tn the Douay version of the time
    we studied the Catechism and more memorization. Of course
    I was not a Catholic at the time but my step-father was a
    lapsed Catholic and he was trying to gain points in the
    race for Heaven or Purgatory.

    Well you mix those various POV and Science up and
    you end up with an serious unbeliever.

    bliss- study, practice, experience



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 13:11:31 2026
    The Doctor wrote in article <1169o3h$2kla$12@gallifrey.nk.ca>:
    "I read the bible in 3 evangelical churches" could mean she, silently, >reads the Books of The Bible whilst at Services .... I don't/didn't know.

    Melissa?


    What?

    I'm not in this thread. I'm not the "she" they mean.

    --
    The meek shall inherit, we're told,
    But I'm not so easily sold.
    For supposing they should,
    It would do them no good --
    They'd lose it at once to the bold.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jay Morris@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 20:06:07 2026
    On 8/21/2026 9:50 AM, The Doctor wrote:
    "red for republicand and blue for democrats" is confusing.

    In most other conutries, blue is for conservative

    and

    red are for Liberlas or Socialists - pick your country.

    It was decided by TV News.

    How the Colors Changed
    Early TV Maps: In the 1970s and 1980s, networks switched colors often.
    For example, NBC News used red for Democrats in 1976, while CBS News
    used blue for Republicans in 1980.

    The "R" Mnemonic: In 1984, ABC News anchor David Brinkley used a simple
    trick to remember the colors, saying, "Red, R, Reagan ? that's why we
    chose red" for the Republican incumbent.

    Standardization: By the 1996 election, most networks settled into the
    current pattern, and print newspapers like The New York Times and USA
    Today locked in the red-for-Republican and blue-for-Democrat standard
    during the 2000 election.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 22 14:19:16 2026
    doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote in news:116cate$oo3$14@gallifrey.nk.ca:

    In article <116c1o2$13kdo$1@dont-email.me>,
    Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
    On 22/08/2026 3:11 am, The True Melissa wrote:
    The Doctor wrote in article <1169o3h$2kla$12@gallifrey.nk.ca>:
    "I read the bible in 3 evangelical churches" could mean she,
    silently, reads the Books of The Bible whilst at Services .... I
    don't/didn't know.

    Melissa?

    What?

    I'm not in this thread. I'm not the "she" they mean.

    BobbieSellers is a Woman whom Binky(Word used by paedophiles to
    indicate their joy of child sexual molestation) has, apparently
    dragged into RADW from RASW
    --
    Daniel70

    talk as a paedophile DannyBoy, get treated as a pedophile Dannyboy.

    FUCK OFF, BINKY!

    --
    "I've known for over a year that this guy is the assassin of the Usenet
    poetry community. When I first arrived, I thought he was keeping the
    lights on in a dead group by reposting from archives. I soon realized
    that he was just endlessly reposting his own stuff, that he had killed
    the group by flooding it, and that most of the people he called
    "trolls" were actually the members of the group.
    I've joined the crowd. I'm done trying to work with him and speak reason
    to him. It's exhausting and pointless." - Little Willie Douchebag gets
    another asskicking from The One True Melissa

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 22 08:31:23 2026
    On 8/22/26 04:38, Daniel70 wrote:
    On 22/08/2026 3:11 am, The True Melissa wrote:
    The Doctor wrote in article <1169o3h$2kla$12@gallifrey.nk.ca>:
    "I read the bible in 3 evangelical churches" could mean she, silently, >>>> reads the Books of The Bible whilst at Services .... I don't/didn't
    know.

    Melissa?

    What?

    I'm not in this thread. I'm not the "she" they mean.

    BobbieSellers is a Woman whom Binky has, apparently dragged into RADW
    from RASW

    Apparently The True Melissa is correct but why does RADW tolerate such an insult to the prefrontal cortex as "The Doctor"?

    By the way I was a Dr.Who fan watching it via broadcast from old
    Channel 54 in San Jose, California then via Cable from the same
    source which due to proximate programming led me into anime and
    finally manga. I liked the shows featuring the original Doctor
    Forman where we learned about the horrible genesis of the Daleks
    in a apocalyptic war between two factions on a planet which was
    mainly painted flats.
    I prefer printed material as you don't have pay for the
    electricity to read it mostly. All the good shows on broadcast
    are stuck in the 4 PM - 9 PM high cost electricity time period.
    This is due to high air conditioning usage in the hotter parts
    of the Greater San Francisco Bay Area.

    bliss- study, practice, experience

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 22 09:12:03 2026
    On Fri, 21 Aug 2026 14:50:12 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    "red for republicand and blue for democrats" is confusing.

    Recently, it was revealed here that it was chosen (Blue having already
    been taken by Democrats) because it begins with "R", as does
    "Republican".

    Such is the seriousness with which this was taken.

    In most other conutries, blue is for conservative

    and

    red are for Liberlas or Socialists - pick your country.

    Personally, I always thought the color for "Republican" should be
    yellow -- to match the broad yellow stripe running up their backs.

    And The Donald's antics have done /nothing/ to suggest otherwise.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 22 09:17:30 2026
    On Sat, 22 Aug 2026 08:31:23 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    <snippo>

    I prefer printed material as you don't have pay for the
    electricity to read it mostly. All the good shows on broadcast
    are stuck in the 4 PM - 9 PM high cost electricity time period.
    This is due to high air conditioning usage in the hotter parts
    of the Greater San Francisco Bay Area.

    I would say that all of that is the result of the General
    Persnicketiness of Things.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 22 12:16:26 2026
    On 8/22/26 09:12, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 21 Aug 2026 14:50:12 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    "red for republicand and blue for democrats" is confusing.

    Recently, it was revealed here that it was chosen (Blue having already
    been taken by Democrats) because it begins with "R", as does
    "Republican".

    Such is the seriousness with which this was taken.

    In most other conutries, blue is for conservative

    The corporatist democrats are quite conservative much
    more so than the paid off by Corporations and oligarchs Republicans.
    Trump is a communist who has had the the Federal Government buy
    stakes in a chip maker.

    Blue is really for the old phrase "True Blue" for the
    Unionists in the 1800s Civil War. Current Republicans diluted
    as they are by the MAGA should be Grey for the original American
    Oath Breakers.

    Progressive Democrats should have the color Fushia
    which is red mixed with blue. I do not speak of the Democratic
    Socialist Party organization because I would not permit
    a political organization that does not respect the constitution.

    So my future parties would be the Constitutional Democrats
    and the Constitutional Conservative parties. I think Trump
    has destroyed the value of the Republican label along with
    his stooges in the White House and the legislative branch.


    and

    red are for Liberlas or Socialists - pick your country.

    Personally, I always thought the color for "Republican" should be
    yellow -- to match the broad yellow stripe running up their backs.

    And The Donald's antics have done /nothing/ to suggest otherwise.

    And he has ruined the economy again with 50% tariffs on Canada which will be reciprocated. What does the USA make that people will
    be willing to pay 50% more for it in Canada?

    Trump may or may not be Putin toy or Kim's pal but he acts like
    a man paid to destroy the USA. He needs a grey uniform with broad
    yellow stripes to wear in a "steel bar hotel".

    But I am a hot-head banned from posting on Daily Kos.

    bliss - study, practice, experience...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 22 12:20:54 2026
    On 8/22/26 09:17, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sat, 22 Aug 2026 08:31:23 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    <snippo>

    I prefer printed material as you don't have pay for the
    electricity to read it mostly. All the good shows on broadcast
    are stuck in the 4 PM - 9 PM high cost electricity time period.
    This is due to high air conditioning usage in the hotter parts
    of the Greater San Francisco Bay Area.

    I would say that all of that is the result of the General
    Persnicketiness of Things.

    I think that the PG&E pays the TV (Comet) to run the "Librarians" and the"Grimm" shows in that time period. But I
    have paranoid tendencies especially when I cannot watch the hows i like.
    But on the other hand it leaves me more time to read.

    bliss - study, practice, experience...


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 22 19:37:19 2026
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    The corporatist democrats are quite conservative much
    more so than the paid off by Corporations and oligarchs Republicans.
    Trump is a communist who has had the the Federal Government buy
    stakes in a chip maker.

    Trump is a special case. He isn't a conservative. He's not a liberal.
    He's Trump.

    Liberals think about what is best for the poor. They believe that the purpose of the government is to support the people on the bottom who cannot support themselves. They believe the people on the top can take care of themselves. Liberals are people who love America and I can work with them although I
    often disagree with them.

    Conservatives think about what is best for the economy. They believe that supporting the people on the top creates investment which supports everyone below them. They believe the people on the bottom will be best served in
    this way. Conservatives are people who love America and I can work with
    them although I often disagree with them.

    Trump thinks about what is best for Trump. He doesn't care about the people on the top, he doesn't care about the people on the bottom. He doesn't care about his own staff, he doesn't even care about his own family, he cares about Donald Trump. He doesn't love America, he only loves money.

    and the Constitutional Conservative parties. I think Trump
    has destroyed the value of the Republican label along with
    his stooges in the White House and the legislative branch.

    Yes, I do think Trump is the worst thing to have happened to the conservative movement in America.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 23 08:52:34 2026
    On Sat, 22 Aug 2026 12:16:26 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/22/26 09:12, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 21 Aug 2026 14:50:12 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    "red for republicand and blue for democrats" is confusing.

    Recently, it was revealed here that it was chosen (Blue having already
    been taken by Democrats) because it begins with "R", as does
    "Republican".

    Such is the seriousness with which this was taken.

    In most other conutries, blue is for conservative

    The corporatist democrats are quite conservative much
    more so than the paid off by Corporations and oligarchs Republicans.
    Trump is a communist who has had the the Federal Government buy
    stakes in a chip maker.

    Blue is really for the old phrase "True Blue" for the
    Unionists in the 1800s Civil War. Current Republicans diluted
    as they are by the MAGA should be Grey for the original American
    Oath Breakers.

    Progressive Democrats should have the color Fushia
    which is red mixed with blue. I do not speak of the Democratic
    Socialist Party organization because I would not permit
    a political organization that does not respect the constitution.

    So my future parties would be the Constitutional Democrats
    and the Constitutional Conservative parties. I think Trump
    has destroyed the value of the Republican label along with
    his stooges in the White House and the legislative branch.


    and

    red are for Liberlas or Socialists - pick your country.

    Personally, I always thought the color for "Republican" should be
    yellow -- to match the broad yellow stripe running up their backs.

    And The Donald's antics have done /nothing/ to suggest otherwise.

    And he has ruined the economy again with 50% tariffs on Canada which
    will be reciprocated. What does the USA make that people will
    be willing to pay 50% more for it in Canada?

    Trump may or may not be Putin toy or Kim's pal but he acts like
    a man paid to destroy the USA. He needs a grey uniform with broad
    yellow stripes to wear in a "steel bar hotel".

    But I am a hot-head banned from posting on Daily Kos.

    When the Great Recession hit, I "knew" the real cause: the Republicans
    were trying to fulfill the Contract on America they had accepted back
    in th 90s. Trump could be understood as their 2nd attempt, albeit not
    a particularly serious one.

    The Contract on America was, of course, spun as the Contract With
    America. But that's JARL (Just Another Republican Lie), barely worth mentioning.

    The /real/ question is: who did they take it out /with/? Who do they
    expect to pay them when they finally manage to destroy America?

    Hey, I've often said that there are wing-nuts on all sides. I never
    said I wasn't one of them.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 24 09:24:20 2026
    On Sun, 23 Aug 2026 18:48:20 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    In article <qh5m8llk208blch2rcfd5l73hsshg6kma8@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 22 Aug 2026 12:16:26 -0700, BobbieSellers >><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    On 8/22/26 09:12, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Fri, 21 Aug 2026 14:50:12 -0000 (UTC), doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
    (The Doctor) wrote:

    <snippo>
    "red for republicand and blue for democrats" is confusing.

    Recently, it was revealed here that it was chosen (Blue having
    already
    been taken by Democrats) because it begins with "R", as does
    "Republican".

    Such is the seriousness with which this was taken.

    In most other conutries, blue is for conservative

    The corporatist democrats are quite conservative much
    more so than the paid off by Corporations and oligarchs Republicans. >>>Trump is a communist who has had the the Federal Government buy
    stakes in a chip maker.

    Blue is really for the old phrase "True Blue" for the
    Unionists in the 1800s Civil War. Current Republicans diluted
    as they are by the MAGA should be Grey for the original American
    Oath Breakers.

    Progressive Democrats should have the color Fushia
    which is red mixed with blue. I do not speak of the Democratic
    Socialist Party organization because I would not permit
    a political organization that does not respect the constitution.

    So my future parties would be the Constitutional Democrats
    and the Constitutional Conservative parties. I think Trump
    has destroyed the value of the Republican label along with
    his stooges in the White House and the legislative branch.


    and

    red are for Liberlas or Socialists - pick your country.

    Personally, I always thought the color for "Republican" should be
    yellow -- to match the broad yellow stripe running up their backs.

    And The Donald's antics have done /nothing/ to suggest otherwise.

    And he has ruined the economy again with 50% tariffs on Canada which >>>will be reciprocated. What does the USA make that people will
    be willing to pay 50% more for it in Canada?

    Trump may or may not be Putin toy or Kim's pal but he acts like
    a man paid to destroy the USA. He needs a grey uniform with broad
    yellow stripes to wear in a "steel bar hotel".

    But I am a hot-head banned from posting on Daily Kos.

    When the Great Recession hit, I "knew" the real cause: the Republicans
    were trying to fulfill the Contract on America they had accepted back
    in th 90s. Trump could be understood as their 2nd attempt, albeit not
    a particularly serious one.

    The Contract on America was, of course, spun as the Contract With
    America. But that's JARL (Just Another Republican Lie), barely worth >>mentioning.

    The /real/ question is: who did they take it out /with/? Who do they
    expect to pay them when they finally manage to destroy America?

    Hey, I've often said that there are wing-nuts on all sides. I never
    said I wasn't one of them.

    FYI there is econoic war between Canada and the USA.

    Actually, I'm surprised Trump hasn't proposed a Fan Line along the
    border to blow the smoke illegally immigrating wildfire smoke back to
    Canada.

    Powered, of course, by his favorite fuel: coal.

    Apparently, he isn't aware that we have our own wildfire smoke in the
    USA. As we find out, from time to time, in Seattle.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bruce@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 24 13:41:22 2026
    The Doctor wrote:

    FYI there is econoic war between Canada and the USA.


    Try that in English, shit for brains.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 24 11:49:16 2026
    On 8/24/26 10:41, Bruce wrote:
    The Doctor wrote:

    FYI there is econoic˙ war between Canada and the USA.


    Try that in English, shit for brains.

    Last time in 1930s Canada won. Of course the UK was a bit
    more of a power then.
    Trump Revives Herbert Hoover?s Nightmare and Canada Fights Back
    by Thom Hartmann <https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2026/8/24/800088583/community/trump-revives-herbert-hoovers-nightmare-and-canada-fights-back/>

    Let's call him Herbert Hoover Trump from here on until he is
    out. Smoot-Hawley should have been repealed long ago and it should
    go join other wastes of time and paper in the dustbin of history.

    bliss


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bruce@3:633/10 to All on Tue Aug 25 02:36:53 2026
    The Binky Doctor wrote:

    Just do not feed the pedophile.



    https://myimgs.org/image/gK81YxoH

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)