• "Powerless" by Harry Turtledove

    From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 16 21:22:58 2026
    "Powerless" by Harry Turtledove

    Charlie Simpkins is no Homer but he lives in the San Fernando
    Valley running a produce store for the West Coast Peoples
    Democratic Republic. He lives in a single bedroom apartment
    with wife Lucille, son Nikta and daughter Sally. They have a
    radio and he daily buys the Daily Worker and the LA Times, to
    be aware of how things are going.

    He is not a Communist Party member so the cigarettes
    to which he is addicted, the Progress brand are terrible.
    Only Party members can shop at stores that feature
    better products. They have no telephone, are on the
    waiting list for a Television set and never expect to be
    able to buy a car. He rides a bus to his workplace.

    One day he falls our of step with the latest Propaganda
    Campaign and discards a Poster which is supposed to be
    displayed in the front window of the shop. And so the
    story starts. The WCPDR is under the thumb of a fascistic Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist Premier in Sacramento. After
    a lot of problems that deviationist is replaced by a man
    from Spokane who has done some great things in Spokane
    increasing productivity. He allows small trading which
    puts money in the pocket of Simpkins and gets better
    produce for the people who shop at his place.

    I miss the usual Turtledove isolation of where
    History changed but the North American continent is divided
    into regional Peoples republics. From Canada through Mexico.
    The USSR rules them all as the only power which can move
    troops via ship and planes all over the world. They will
    intervene when they believe the Road to True Communism
    is not being followed. The South East Peoples Confederacy
    is lynching Negroes and when the local papers report that
    fact things begin to fall apart.

    Near the end of the book we learn what happened to the
    USA and it happened when the South won the Civil War.

    I think this is an important book and fear that people
    will neither read it or understand what Turtledove is
    saying. I understand it because of my wide reading in the
    1960s and paying attention to the Commies who ran my
    2nd favorite bookstore.

    This a hardcover from the SF Public Library less than
    300 pages. "Powerless" is an alternate history novel published
    in July 2025 by CaezekSF.com SF & Fantasy, priced at $33.99.
    It is also available in ebook at about a third of that price.

    bliss- study, practice, experience

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 17 14:19:07 2026
    On 8/16/2026 11:22 PM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    "Powerless" by Harry Turtledove

    Charlie Simpkins is no Homer but he lives in the San Fernando
    Valley running a produce store for the West Coast Peoples
    Democratic Republic.˙ He lives in a single bedroom apartment
    with wife Lucille, son Nikta and daughter Sally. They have a
    radio and he daily buys the Daily Worker and the LA Times, to
    be aware of how things are going.

    ˙˙˙˙˙ He is not a Communist Party member so the cigarettes
    to which he is addicted, the Progress brand are terrible.
    Only Party members can shop at stores that feature
    better products.˙ They have no telephone, are on the
    waiting list for a Television set and never expect to be
    able to buy a car.˙ He rides a bus to his workplace.

    ˙˙˙˙˙ One day he falls our of step with the latest Propaganda
    Campaign and discards a Poster which is supposed to be
    displayed in the front window of the shop.˙ And so the
    story starts.˙ The WCPDR is under the thumb of a fascistic Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist Premier in Sacramento.˙ After
    a lot of problems that deviationist is replaced by a man
    from Spokane who has done some great things in Spokane
    increasing productivity.˙ He allows small trading which
    puts money in the pocket of Simpkins and gets better
    ˙produce for the people who shop at his place.

    ˙˙˙˙˙ I miss the usual Turtledove isolation of where
    History changed but the North American continent is divided
    into regional Peoples republics. From Canada through Mexico.
    The USSR rules them all as the only power which can move
    troops via ship and planes all over the world. They will
    intervene when they believe the Road to True Communism
    is not being followed.˙ The South East Peoples Confederacy
    is lynching Negroes and when the local papers report that
    fact things begin to fall apart.

    ˙˙˙˙˙ Near the end of the book we learn what happened to the
    USA and it happened when the South won the Civil War.

    ˙˙˙˙˙ I think this is an important book and fear that people
    will neither read it or understand what Turtledove is
    saying. I understand it because of my wide reading in the
    1960s and paying attention to the Commies who ran my
    2nd favorite bookstore.

    ˙˙˙˙˙ This a hardcover from the SF Public Library less than
    300 pages. "Powerless" is an alternate history novel published
    in July 2025 by CaezekSF.com SF & Fantasy, priced at $33.99.
    It is also available in ebook at about a third of that price.

    ˙˙˙˙bliss- study, practice, experience

    I have yet to read any Turtledove books. I just cannot get excited
    about any of them.
    https://www.amazon.com/Powerless-Harry-Turtledove/dp/1647101492

    My wife watched "The Man In The High Tower" recently and liked it. Me,
    meh. It was weird seeing a 70 year old Adolf Hitler and the eugenics
    program weirded me out.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 17 14:24:05 2026
    On 8/17/26 12:19, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 8/16/2026 11:22 PM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    "Powerless" by Harry Turtledove

    Charlie Simpkins is no Homer but he lives in the San Fernando
    Valley running a produce store for the West Coast Peoples
    Democratic Republic.˙ He lives in a single bedroom apartment
    with wife Lucille, son Nikta and daughter Sally. They have a
    radio and he daily buys the Daily Worker and the LA Times, to
    be aware of how things are going.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ He is not a Communist Party member so the cigarettes
    to which he is addicted, the Progress brand are terrible.
    Only Party members can shop at stores that feature
    better products.˙ They have no telephone, are on the
    waiting list for a Television set and never expect to be
    able to buy a car.˙ He rides a bus to his workplace.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ One day he falls our of step with the latest Propaganda
    Campaign and discards a Poster which is supposed to be
    displayed in the front window of the shop.˙ And so the
    story starts.˙ The WCPDR is under the thumb of a fascistic
    Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist Premier in Sacramento.˙ After
    a lot of problems that deviationist is replaced by a man
    from Spokane who has done some great things in Spokane
    increasing productivity.˙ He allows small trading which
    puts money in the pocket of Simpkins and gets better
    ˙˙produce for the people who shop at his place.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ I miss the usual Turtledove isolation of where
    History changed but the North American continent is divided
    into regional Peoples republics. From Canada through Mexico.
    The USSR rules them all as the only power which can move
    troops via ship and planes all over the world. They will
    intervene when they believe the Road to True Communism
    is not being followed.˙ The South East Peoples Confederacy
    is lynching Negroes and when the local papers report that
    fact things begin to fall apart.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ Near the end of the book we learn what happened to the
    USA and it happened when the South won the Civil War.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ I think this is an important book and fear that people
    will neither read it or understand what Turtledove is
    saying. I understand it because of my wide reading in the
    1960s and paying attention to the Commies who ran my
    2nd favorite bookstore.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ This a hardcover from the SF Public Library less than
    300 pages. "Powerless" is an alternate history novel published
    in July 2025 by CaezekSF.com SF & Fantasy, priced at $33.99.
    It is also available in ebook at about a third of that price.

    ˙˙˙˙˙bliss- study, practice, experience

    I have yet to read any Turtledove books.˙ I just cannot get excited
    about any of them.
    ˙˙ https://www.amazon.com/Powerless-Harry-Turtledove/dp/1647101492

    My wife watched "The Man In The High Tower" recently and liked it.˙ Me,
    meh.˙ It was weird seeing a 70 year old Adolf Hitler and the eugenics program weirded me out.

    Lynn

    I have never seen the movie and in my day there was no expectation that
    such work would be made into movies.
    I did see "Naked Lunch" the film attempting to translate
    the Burroughs fiction into cinema.
    I have read all of Dick including the non-science
    fiction/fantasy works. i have read as much of Turtledove and
    find it far more accessible than Dick's sometimes drug-inspired
    stories. I also like Flint's Ring of Fire stores. In my younger
    days I enjoyed Simak but felt he was poor at endings. Since then
    I have read some translated Japanese fiction and find similar
    inconclusive conclusions which extends to the manga and anime.

    I read a lot of translated Japanese History and historical
    biographical and auto-biographical history. I cite always,
    "Drifting Lives" and "Showa A History of Japan". That ist is an autobiographical story of a manga artist and how the author/artist
    was exploited and gained some success. That is one thick volume.
    ` The 2nd is abour a man born in time to be drafted
    into the Japanese Imperial Army and tough enough to endure his
    officer's abuse and suicide charges, lose an arm and come out
    the other side to become essentially the Walt Disney of Japan
    with at least one theme park. He was lucky enough to publish
    his story of the reign of the man we called "Hirohito" just as
    that man, the Showa emperor died. That is 4 very thick
    volumes.

    bliss - study, practice, experience...


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From James Nicoll@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 17 22:34:43 2026
    In article <115vu5n$1bbjk$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    snip

    I read a lot of translated Japanese History and historical
    biographical and auto-biographical history. I cite always,
    "Drifting Lives" and "Showa A History of Japan". That ist is an >autobiographical story of a manga artist and how the author/artist
    was exploited and gained some success. That is one thick volume.
    ` The 2nd is abour a man born in time to be drafted
    into the Japanese Imperial Army and tough enough to endure his
    officer's abuse and suicide charges, lose an arm and come out
    the other side to become essentially the Walt Disney of Japan
    with at least one theme park.

    [snip]

    At one point, the author found himself relegated to rear
    echalon band duty. He wasn't happy with this so he asked
    for and got a transfer to an active war zone from an officer
    who was trying very hard to suggest a transfer was a bad idea
    without actually saying that.

    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 17 21:27:34 2026
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    My wife watched "The Man In The High Tower" recently and liked it. Me,
    meh. It was weird seeing a 70 year old Adolf Hitler and the eugenics >program weirded me out.

    It's supposed to! But you should read the book, which is much more weird
    than the film adaptation. It is hard to adapt a story with an untrustworthy narrator to film.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Mon Aug 17 20:22:57 2026
    On 8/17/26 15:34, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <115vu5n$1bbjk$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    snip

    I read a lot of translated Japanese History and historical
    biographical and auto-biographical history. I cite always,
    "Drifting Lives" and "Showa A History of Japan". That ist is an
    autobiographical story of a manga artist and how the author/artist
    was exploited and gained some success. That is one thick volume.
    ` The 2nd is abour a man born in time to be drafted
    into the Japanese Imperial Army and tough enough to endure his
    officer's abuse and suicide charges, lose an arm and come out
    the other side to become essentially the Walt Disney of Japan
    with at least one theme park.

    [snip]

    At one point, the author found himself relegated to rear
    echalon band duty. He wasn't happy with this so he asked
    for and got a transfer to an active war zone from an officer
    who was trying very hard to suggest a transfer was a bad idea
    without actually saying that.

    Well Shigeru Musa was dense and nearly autistic at that time of
    his life. He could not take a hint and was a bad student frequently late
    to class. Tough though in the wars between the kid gangs.

    You have read at least a part of Showa.

    It does have at least one error of calculation of the length of Taisho reign. I assume it was done by a translator who was unaware of
    the historical facts. Taisho emperor was a sickly fellow who died young.
    That fell between the end of the Meji reign and the ascension of the
    young Hirohito to the throne.
    I think though that the most interesting character is Musa Shigeru, later Mizuki Shigeru, the author.

    bliss- study, practice, experience

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From James Nicoll@3:633/10 to All on Tue Aug 18 13:12:04 2026
    In article <1160j6j$1gu3g$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 8/17/26 15:34, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <115vu5n$1bbjk$1@dont-email.me>,
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    snip

    I read a lot of translated Japanese History and historical
    biographical and auto-biographical history. I cite always,
    "Drifting Lives" and "Showa A History of Japan". That ist is an
    autobiographical story of a manga artist and how the author/artist
    was exploited and gained some success. That is one thick volume.
    ` The 2nd is abour a man born in time to be drafted
    into the Japanese Imperial Army and tough enough to endure his
    officer's abuse and suicide charges, lose an arm and come out
    the other side to become essentially the Walt Disney of Japan
    with at least one theme park.

    [snip]

    At one point, the author found himself relegated to rear
    echalon band duty. He wasn't happy with this so he asked
    for and got a transfer to an active war zone from an officer
    who was trying very hard to suggest a transfer was a bad idea
    without actually saying that.

    Well Shigeru Musa was dense and nearly autistic at that time of
    his life. He could not take a hint and was a bad student frequently late
    to class. Tough though in the wars between the kid gangs.

    You have read at least a part of Showa.

    I have read all of it, as well as Onward Towards Our Noble Deaths.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tony Nance@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 19 15:41:43 2026
    On 8/17/26 3:19 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 8/16/2026 11:22 PM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    "Powerless" by Harry Turtledove

    Charlie Simpkins is no Homer but he lives in the San Fernando
    Valley running a produce store for the West Coast Peoples
    Democratic Republic.˙ He lives in a single bedroom apartment
    with wife Lucille, son Nikta and daughter Sally. They have a
    radio and he daily buys the Daily Worker and the LA Times, to
    be aware of how things are going.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ He is not a Communist Party member so the cigarettes
    to which he is addicted, the Progress brand are terrible.
    Only Party members can shop at stores that feature
    better products.˙ They have no telephone, are on the
    waiting list for a Television set and never expect to be
    able to buy a car.˙ He rides a bus to his workplace.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ One day he falls our of step with the latest Propaganda
    Campaign and discards a Poster which is supposed to be
    displayed in the front window of the shop.˙ And so the
    story starts.˙ The WCPDR is under the thumb of a fascistic
    Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist Premier in Sacramento.˙ After
    a lot of problems that deviationist is replaced by a man
    from Spokane who has done some great things in Spokane
    increasing productivity.˙ He allows small trading which
    puts money in the pocket of Simpkins and gets better
    ˙˙produce for the people who shop at his place.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ I miss the usual Turtledove isolation of where
    History changed but the North American continent is divided
    into regional Peoples republics. From Canada through Mexico.
    The USSR rules them all as the only power which can move
    troops via ship and planes all over the world. They will
    intervene when they believe the Road to True Communism
    is not being followed.˙ The South East Peoples Confederacy
    is lynching Negroes and when the local papers report that
    fact things begin to fall apart.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ Near the end of the book we learn what happened to the
    USA and it happened when the South won the Civil War.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ I think this is an important book and fear that people
    will neither read it or understand what Turtledove is
    saying. I understand it because of my wide reading in the
    1960s and paying attention to the Commies who ran my
    2nd favorite bookstore.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ This a hardcover from the SF Public Library less than
    300 pages. "Powerless" is an alternate history novel published
    in July 2025 by CaezekSF.com SF & Fantasy, priced at $33.99.
    It is also available in ebook at about a third of that price.

    ˙˙˙˙˙bliss- study, practice, experience

    I have yet to read any Turtledove books.˙ I just cannot get excited
    about any of them.
    ˙˙ https://www.amazon.com/Powerless-Harry-Turtledove/dp/1647101492


    While I have enjoyed a few alt history works (not many), in general, I
    have never enjoyed alt history as a genre, so I have also not been
    enticed by most of Turtledove's output.

    BUT: I have read exactly two of his, both of which I enjoyed, but not
    enough to pursue others:

    The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump, which doesn't feel like alt history to
    me, and which is more like Lord Darcy (Randall Garrett), or Operation
    Chaos & Operation Luna (Poul Anderson). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_of_the_Toxic_Spell_Dump

    Agent of Byzantium, which is a fix-up of 6 stories following the same protagonist, set on the 14th Century, where (quoting from Wikipedia)
    "The stories are set in an alternate 14th century, where Islam never
    existed and the great ancient empires of Byzantium (the Eastern Roman
    Empire) and Sassanid Persia survive." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_of_Byzantium

    Tony



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 19 13:14:43 2026
    On 8/19/26 12:41, Tony Nance wrote:
    On 8/17/26 3:19 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 8/16/2026 11:22 PM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    "Powerless" by Harry Turtledove

    Charlie Simpkins is no Homer but he lives in the San Fernando
    Valley running a produce store for the West Coast Peoples
    Democratic Republic.˙ He lives in a single bedroom apartment
    with wife Lucille, son Nikta and daughter Sally. They have a
    radio and he daily buys the Daily Worker and the LA Times, to
    be aware of how things are going.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ He is not a Communist Party member so the cigarettes
    to which he is addicted, the Progress brand are terrible.
    Only Party members can shop at stores that feature
    better products.˙ They have no telephone, are on the
    waiting list for a Television set and never expect to be
    able to buy a car.˙ He rides a bus to his workplace.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ One day he falls our of step with the latest Propaganda
    Campaign and discards a Poster which is supposed to be
    displayed in the front window of the shop.˙ And so the
    story starts.˙ The WCPDR is under the thumb of a fascistic
    Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist Premier in Sacramento.˙ After
    a lot of problems that deviationist is replaced by a man
    from Spokane who has done some great things in Spokane
    increasing productivity.˙ He allows small trading which
    puts money in the pocket of Simpkins and gets better
    ˙˙produce for the people who shop at his place.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ I miss the usual Turtledove isolation of where
    History changed but the North American continent is divided
    into regional Peoples republics. From Canada through Mexico.
    The USSR rules them all as the only power which can move
    troops via ship and planes all over the world. They will
    intervene when they believe the Road to True Communism
    is not being followed.˙ The South East Peoples Confederacy
    is lynching Negroes and when the local papers report that
    fact things begin to fall apart.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ Near the end of the book we learn what happened to the
    USA and it happened when the South won the Civil War.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ I think this is an important book and fear that people
    will neither read it or understand what Turtledove is
    saying. I understand it because of my wide reading in the
    1960s and paying attention to the Commies who ran my
    2nd favorite bookstore.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ This a hardcover from the SF Public Library less than
    300 pages. "Powerless" is an alternate history novel published
    in July 2025 by CaezekSF.com SF & Fantasy, priced at $33.99.
    It is also available in ebook at about a third of that price.

    ˙˙˙˙˙bliss- study, practice, experience

    I have yet to read any Turtledove books.˙ I just cannot get excited
    about any of them.
    ˙˙˙ https://www.amazon.com/Powerless-Harry-Turtledove/dp/1647101492


    While I have enjoyed a few alt history works (not many), in general, I
    have never enjoyed alt history as a genre, so I have also not been
    enticed by most of Turtledove's output.

    BUT: I have read exactly two of his, both of which I enjoyed, but not
    enough to pursue others:

    The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump, which doesn't feel like alt history to
    me, and which is more like Lord Darcy (Randall Garrett), or Operation
    Chaos & Operation Luna (Poul Anderson). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_of_the_Toxic_Spell_Dump

    Agent of Byzantium, which is a fix-up of 6 stories following the same protagonist, set on the 14th Century, where (quoting from Wikipedia)
    "The stories are set in an alternate 14th century, where Islam never
    existed and the great ancient empires of Byzantium (the Eastern Roman Empire) and Sassanid Persia survive." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_of_Byzantium

    Tony

    I have read most of "Agent of Byzantium". But his Cross Time Traders series and "The Valley-West Side " is very good though
    meant for younger readers. The most dystopian of the alternate
    histories is Welcome to the DisUnited states of America where
    warring the States forces have nuclear weapons and no uniformity
    of Individual Rights under the constitution so Slavery is legal
    here and there. That is part of the Cross Time Traders series
    where the Traders have to move gingerly across the borders.

    I am sorry you do not care for alternate history
    but I enjoy it very much because it did not happen. I enjoy
    real history as well because it is done and we do not have
    to deal with the horrible times where families were split
    by war and folly.

    Powerless depicts a world in which the Confederacy
    won that Civil War. The USA disintegrated after that and was
    not able to help the Allies defeat the succesive attacks by
    German Fascism and the USSR which has at least the former
    USA tightly under control. The dystopia of such a world
    reminds me ot the 1940s but most of the time we had telephones.
    And we always had access to automobiles of course. So
    it is a drab and impoverished world in many ways.

    bliss


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 14:31:47 2026
    On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 14:19:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    My wife watched "The Man In The High Tower" recently and liked it. Me,
    meh. It was weird seeing a 70 year old Adolf Hitler and the eugenics >program weirded me out.

    Is this "The Man in the High Castle" or is this something different?

    If the former I'm a Vancouver native and saw a LOT of familiar scenary
    - for instance one of the major characters was killed in a local park
    about 2 miles from my home and it was REALLY weird seeing the old
    Vancouver main post office (which is now owned by Amazon) used as the
    Nazi headquarters where they had the gate to the alternate dimension.
    Since I routinely used to go to that post office for shipping large
    parcels it was very strange seeing such a familiar building being used
    as a Nazi HQ.

    They used a separate part of Vancouver for the scenes involving the
    Japanese occupation and while they were good weren't as good as the
    Nazi scenes.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 17:25:17 2026
    On 8/21/2026 4:31 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 14:19:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    My wife watched "The Man In The High Tower" recently and liked it. Me,
    meh. It was weird seeing a 70 year old Adolf Hitler and the eugenics
    program weirded me out.

    Is this "The Man in the High Castle" or is this something different?
    Dadgumit, yes. Oh well, I got five out of the six words correct.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 22 00:07:49 2026
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    On 8/21/2026 4:31 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 14:19:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    My wife watched "The Man In The High Tower" recently and liked it. Me,
    meh. It was weird seeing a 70 year old Adolf Hitler and the eugenics
    program weirded me out.

    Is this "The Man in the High Castle" or is this something different? >Dadgumit, yes. Oh well, I got five out of the six words correct.

    One might point out that "Man in the High Castle" is by Philip K Dick,
    not Harry Turtledove.

    As for stories similar to Man in the High Castle, Deighton's _SS-GB_
    is an excellent, if dark tale. Wikipedia says that BBC did a series
    based on SS-GB.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tony Nance@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 20:46:15 2026
    On 8/19/26 4:14 PM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 8/19/26 12:41, Tony Nance wrote:
    On 8/17/26 3:19 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 8/16/2026 11:22 PM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    "Powerless" by Harry Turtledove

    Charlie Simpkins is no Homer but he lives in the San Fernando
    Valley running a produce store for the West Coast Peoples
    Democratic Republic.˙ He lives in a single bedroom apartment
    with wife Lucille, son Nikta and daughter Sally. They have a
    radio and he daily buys the Daily Worker and the LA Times, to
    be aware of how things are going.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ He is not a Communist Party member so the cigarettes
    to which he is addicted, the Progress brand are terrible.
    Only Party members can shop at stores that feature
    better products.˙ They have no telephone, are on the
    waiting list for a Television set and never expect to be
    able to buy a car.˙ He rides a bus to his workplace.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ One day he falls our of step with the latest Propaganda
    Campaign and discards a Poster which is supposed to be
    displayed in the front window of the shop.˙ And so the
    story starts.˙ The WCPDR is under the thumb of a fascistic
    Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist Premier in Sacramento.˙ After
    a lot of problems that deviationist is replaced by a man
    from Spokane who has done some great things in Spokane
    increasing productivity.˙ He allows small trading which
    puts money in the pocket of Simpkins and gets better
    ˙˙produce for the people who shop at his place.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ I miss the usual Turtledove isolation of where
    History changed but the North American continent is divided
    into regional Peoples republics. From Canada through Mexico.
    The USSR rules them all as the only power which can move
    troops via ship and planes all over the world. They will
    intervene when they believe the Road to True Communism
    is not being followed.˙ The South East Peoples Confederacy
    is lynching Negroes and when the local papers report that
    fact things begin to fall apart.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ Near the end of the book we learn what happened to the
    USA and it happened when the South won the Civil War.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ I think this is an important book and fear that people
    will neither read it or understand what Turtledove is
    saying. I understand it because of my wide reading in the
    1960s and paying attention to the Commies who ran my
    2nd favorite bookstore.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ This a hardcover from the SF Public Library less than
    300 pages. "Powerless" is an alternate history novel published
    in July 2025 by CaezekSF.com SF & Fantasy, priced at $33.99.
    It is also available in ebook at about a third of that price.

    ˙˙˙˙˙bliss- study, practice, experience

    I have yet to read any Turtledove books.˙ I just cannot get excited
    about any of them.
    ˙˙˙ https://www.amazon.com/Powerless-Harry-Turtledove/dp/1647101492


    While I have enjoyed a few alt history works (not many), in general, I
    have never enjoyed alt history as a genre, so I have also not been
    enticed by most of Turtledove's output.

    BUT: I have read exactly two of his, both of which I enjoyed, but not
    enough to pursue others:

    The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump, which doesn't feel like alt history
    to me, and which is more like Lord Darcy (Randall Garrett), or
    Operation Chaos & Operation Luna (Poul Anderson).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_of_the_Toxic_Spell_Dump

    Agent of Byzantium, which is a fix-up of 6 stories following the same
    protagonist, set on the 14th Century, where (quoting from Wikipedia)
    "The stories are set in an alternate 14th century, where Islam never
    existed and the great ancient empires of Byzantium (the Eastern Roman
    Empire) and Sassanid Persia survive."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_of_Byzantium

    Tony

    ˙˙˙˙I have read most of "Agent of Byzantium". But his Cross Time
    Traders series and "The Valley-West Side " is very good though
    meant for younger readers.

    Good to know - thank you.


    The most dystopian of the alternate
    histories is Welcome to the DisUnited states of America where
    warring the States forces have nuclear weapons and no uniformity
    of Individual Rights under the constitution so Slavery is legal
    here and there.˙ That is part of the Cross Time Traders series
    where the Traders have to move gingerly across the borders.

    ˙˙˙˙I am sorry you do not care for alternate history

    Me too - there's a ton of it out there.
    Tony


    but I enjoy it very much because it did not happen. I enjoy
    real history as well because it is done and we do not have
    to deal with the horrible times where families were split
    by war and folly.

    ˙˙˙˙Powerless depicts a world in which the Confederacy
    won that Civil War. The USA disintegrated after that and was
    not able to help the Allies defeat the succesive attacks by
    German Fascism and the USSR which has at least the former
    USA tightly under control. The dystopia of such a world
    reminds me ot the 1940s but most of the time we had telephones.
    And we always had access to automobiles of course.˙ So
    it is a drab and impoverished world in many ways.

    ˙˙˙˙bliss



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tony Nance@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 20:51:21 2026
    On 8/19/26 5:17 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <11650tn$2t644$3@dont-email.me>,
    Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 8/17/26 3:19 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 8/16/2026 11:22 PM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    "Powerless" by Harry Turtledove

    Charlie Simpkins is no Homer but he lives in the San Fernando
    Valley running a produce store for the West Coast Peoples
    Democratic Republic.˙ He lives in a single bedroom apartment
    with wife Lucille, son Nikta and daughter Sally. They have a
    radio and he daily buys the Daily Worker and the LA Times, to
    be aware of how things are going.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ He is not a Communist Party member so the cigarettes
    to which he is addicted, the Progress brand are terrible.
    Only Party members can shop at stores that feature
    better products.˙ They have no telephone, are on the
    waiting list for a Television set and never expect to be
    able to buy a car.˙ He rides a bus to his workplace.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ One day he falls our of step with the latest Propaganda
    Campaign and discards a Poster which is supposed to be
    displayed in the front window of the shop.˙ And so the
    story starts.˙ The WCPDR is under the thumb of a fascistic
    Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist Premier in Sacramento.˙ After
    a lot of problems that deviationist is replaced by a man
    from Spokane who has done some great things in Spokane
    increasing productivity.˙ He allows small trading which
    puts money in the pocket of Simpkins and gets better
    ˙˙produce for the people who shop at his place.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ I miss the usual Turtledove isolation of where
    History changed but the North American continent is divided
    into regional Peoples republics. From Canada through Mexico.
    The USSR rules them all as the only power which can move
    troops via ship and planes all over the world. They will
    intervene when they believe the Road to True Communism
    is not being followed.˙ The South East Peoples Confederacy
    is lynching Negroes and when the local papers report that
    fact things begin to fall apart.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ Near the end of the book we learn what happened to the
    USA and it happened when the South won the Civil War.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ I think this is an important book and fear that people
    will neither read it or understand what Turtledove is
    saying. I understand it because of my wide reading in the
    1960s and paying attention to the Commies who ran my
    2nd favorite bookstore.

    ˙˙˙˙˙˙ This a hardcover from the SF Public Library less than
    300 pages. "Powerless" is an alternate history novel published
    in July 2025 by CaezekSF.com SF & Fantasy, priced at $33.99.
    It is also available in ebook at about a third of that price.

    ˙˙˙˙˙bliss- study, practice, experience

    I have yet to read any Turtledove books.˙ I just cannot get excited
    about any of them.
    ˙˙ https://www.amazon.com/Powerless-Harry-Turtledove/dp/1647101492


    While I have enjoyed a few alt history works (not many), in general, I
    have never enjoyed alt history as a genre, so I have also not been
    enticed by most of Turtledove's output.

    BUT: I have read exactly two of his, both of which I enjoyed, but not
    enough to pursue others:

    The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump, which doesn't feel like alt history to
    me, and which is more like Lord Darcy (Randall Garrett), or Operation
    Chaos & Operation Luna (Poul Anderson).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_of_the_Toxic_Spell_Dump

    Agent of Byzantium, which is a fix-up of 6 stories following the same
    protagonist, set on the 14th Century, where (quoting from Wikipedia)
    "The stories are set in an alternate 14th century, where Islam never
    existed and the great ancient empires of Byzantium (the Eastern Roman
    Empire) and Sassanid Persia survive."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_of_Byzantium


    Which would probably be a dangerous series to continue today.

    Aye - good point.


    He also did
    a fantasy series (or two subseries?) that was Byzantium with the
    serial numbers filed off, as well as a Byzantine straight historical
    novel (as Turtletaub iirc).

    He did some other not-really-alt-hist stuff like _Between The Rivers_
    which incorporates the ideas of "The Origin Of Consciousness In The
    Breakdown Of The Bicameral Mind" in a fantasy setting (he had previously played with the same ideas in an SF setting as part of, I believe, _Noninterference_.


    Good to know - thanks.

    Not long ago in a book store I saw -- spine-out only -- his 2020 book "Salamis", and I initially wondered how one would write an alt-history
    about lunch meats.[1]

    But then I figured, if anyone could do it, he could.
    Tony
    [1] Yes, I know.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tony Nance@3:633/10 to All on Fri Aug 21 21:01:33 2026
    On 8/21/26 6:25 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 8/21/2026 4:31 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 14:19:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    My wife watched "The Man In The High Tower" recently and liked it.˙ Me,
    meh.˙ It was weird seeing a 70 year old Adolf Hitler and the eugenics
    program weirded me out.

    Is this "The Man in the High Castle" or is this something different?
    Dadgumit, yes.˙ Oh well, I got five out of the six words correct.

    Lynn


    Sometimes five out of six is fine, and sometimes it is not...

    The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Autobahn
    Do Androids Dream of Electric Appliances?
    The Cat Who Walks Through Hoboken
    Harry Potter and the Deathly Pillows

    But we knew what you meant!
    Tony

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 22 15:49:13 2026
    Tony Nance wrote:
    .

    Not long ago in a book store I saw -- spine-out only -- his 2020 book "Salamis", and I initially wondered how one would write an alt-history
    about lunch meats.[1]

    But then I figured, if anyone could do it, he could.

    How incredibly blind of me. I never noticed that.

    I read a great deal of Turtledove, but just got tired of him. I do
    fondly recall a number of his works, though, including "Agent of
    Byzantium". I was once a bit of a Byzantine history nut, so his early
    work clicked with me.

    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Sat Aug 22 15:52:05 2026
    Tony Nance wrote:
    On 8/21/26 6:25 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 8/21/2026 4:31 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 14:19:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    My wife watched "The Man In The High Tower" recently and liked it.˙ Me, >>>> meh.˙ It was weird seeing a 70 year old Adolf Hitler and the eugenics
    program weirded me out.

    Is this "The Man in the High Castle" or is this something different?
    Dadgumit, yes.˙ Oh well, I got five out of the six words correct.

    Lynn


    Sometimes five out of six is fine, and sometimes it is not...

    The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Autobahn

    A horror novel?

    Do Androids Dream of Electric Appliances?
    The Cat Who Walks Through Hoboken

    I'd read that.

    Harry Potter and the Deathly Pillows

    There are already too many books about American politics.

    William Hyde



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Tony Nance@3:633/10 to All on Thu Aug 27 17:18:14 2026
    On 8/22/26 3:52 PM, William Hyde wrote:
    Tony Nance wrote:
    On 8/21/26 6:25 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 8/21/2026 4:31 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Mon, 17 Aug 2026 14:19:07 -0500, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    My wife watched "The Man In The High Tower" recently and liked it. >>>>> Me,
    meh.˙ It was weird seeing a 70 year old Adolf Hitler and the eugenics >>>>> program weirded me out.

    Is this "The Man in the High Castle" or is this something different?
    Dadgumit, yes.˙ Oh well, I got five out of the six words correct.

    Lynn


    Sometimes five out of six is fine, and sometimes it is not...

    The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Autobahn

    A horror novel?

    Ha! Could very well be.


    Do Androids Dream of Electric Appliances?
    The Cat Who Walks Through Hoboken

    I'd read that.

    Harry Potter and the Deathly Pillows

    There are already too many books about American politics.


    I was thinking more about Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition, but I like
    your take.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)