• Re: xkcd

    From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 23 01:47:28 2026
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:44:21 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    Postscript is very similar. Early PS printers had full fledged
    computer capabilities ...

    ?Early? or not, if they implemented PostScript, then by definition
    they had ?full-fledged computer capabilities?.

    Very soon, the security issues of having a networked computer that
    anyone could send executable code to led to the PS interpreters
    being locked down, with all the fun stuff removed.

    That would be PDF, not PostScript.

    Forth is basically ?just another low-level language?.

    PostScript has/had some interesting ideas in it, that are still worth
    looking at today.

    you forth love if honk then
    you PostScript love {honk} if

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 23 13:11:04 2026
    On 8/22/2026 9:47 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:44:21 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    Postscript is very similar. Early PS printers had full fledged
    computer capabilities ...

    ?Early? or not, if they implemented PostScript, then by definition
    they had ?full-fledged computer capabilities?.

    Very soon, the security issues of having a networked computer that
    anyone could send executable code to led to the PS interpreters
    being locked down, with all the fun stuff removed.

    That would be PDF, not PostScript.

    It was both. Early on PS programs could open network connections
    and send stuff to other systems, as well as manipulate file systems.

    Check this out:

    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-00470-5_28
    PostScript Undead: Pwning the Web with a 35 Years Old Language.

    I hand wrote some PS programs back in the day.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Sun Aug 23 14:03:30 2026
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 8/22/2026 9:47 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    That would be PDF, not PostScript.

    It was both. Early on PS programs could open network connections
    and send stuff to other systems, as well as manipulate file systems.

    pdf is really just a compressed ps in disguise. It is Turing complete
    like ps is, and all of the wonderful and terrible things that you can
    do with ps are possible with pdf.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 26 06:51:05 2026
    On Sun, 23 Aug 2026 13:11:04 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 8/22/2026 9:47 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:44:21 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    Postscript is very similar. Early PS printers had full fledged
    computer capabilities ...

    ?Early? or not, if they implemented PostScript, then by definition
    they had ?full-fledged computer capabilities?.

    Very soon, the security issues of having a networked computer that
    anyone could send executable code to led to the PS interpreters
    being locked down, with all the fun stuff removed.

    That would be PDF, not PostScript.

    It was both.

    PDF was designed so that pages could be sent directly to a PostScript
    printer for rendering, by prefixing them with a suitable custom
    prologue. The basic syntax was PostScript-compatible, after all.

    Early on PS programs could open network connections and send stuff
    to other systems, as well as manipulate file systems.

    I don?t recall Apple LaserWriters, or any of the other printers I
    used, having any ability to make network connections to other
    machines. Some PostScript printers/typesetters may have had/needed
    access to local filesystems, but I don?t see why they needed network capabilities in the language itself.

    Check this out:

    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-00470-5_28
    PostScript Undead: Pwning the Web with a 35 Years Old Language.

    So what is happening there? Are those sites running Ghostscript at
    their backends in a form accessible from the wider Internet with
    insufficient containment?

    I hand wrote some PS programs back in the day.

    I did a bunch. Even after I quit my former employer, they called me
    back for a few years afterwards to help generate a few thousand
    preprinted enrolment forms from individual student data for use at the
    start of the academic year.

    I was asked more than once to train one of their own staff to take
    over, but it seemed none of the candidates could cope with
    reverse-Polish notation ...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 26 08:39:02 2026
    On Wed, 26 Aug 2026 06:51:05 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Sun, 23 Aug 2026 13:11:04 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 8/22/2026 9:47 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:44:21 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    Postscript is very similar. Early PS printers had full fledged
    computer capabilities ...

    ?Early? or not, if they implemented PostScript, then by
    definition
    they had ?full-fledged computer capabilities?.

    Very soon, the security issues of having a networked computer that
    anyone could send executable code to led to the PS interpreters
    being locked down, with all the fun stuff removed.

    That would be PDF, not PostScript.

    It was both.

    PDF was designed so that pages could be sent directly to a PostScript
    printer for rendering, by prefixing them with a suitable custom
    prologue. The basic syntax was PostScript-compatible, after all.

    Early on PS programs could open network connections and send stuff
    to other systems, as well as manipulate file systems.

    I don?t recall Apple LaserWriters, or any of the other printers I
    used, having any ability to make network connections to other
    machines. Some PostScript printers/typesetters may have had/needed
    access to local filesystems, but I don?t see why they needed network >capabilities in the language itself.

    Check this out:

    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-00470-5_28
    PostScript Undead: Pwning the Web with a 35 Years Old Language.

    So what is happening there? Are those sites running Ghostscript at
    their backends in a form accessible from the wider Internet with
    insufficient containment?

    I hand wrote some PS programs back in the day.

    I did a bunch. Even after I quit my former employer, they called me
    back for a few years afterwards to help generate a few thousand
    preprinted enrolment forms from individual student data for use at the
    start of the academic year.

    I was asked more than once to train one of their own staff to take
    over, but it seemed none of the candidates could cope with
    reverse-Polish notation ...

    Thinking in terms of the stack helps.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 26 12:12:53 2026
    On 8/26/2026 2:51 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Sun, 23 Aug 2026 13:11:04 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    I hand wrote some PS programs back in the day.

    I did a bunch. Even after I quit my former employer, they called me
    back for a few years afterwards to help generate a few thousand
    preprinted enrolment forms from individual student data for use at the
    start of the academic year.

    I was asked more than once to train one of their own staff to take
    over, but it seemed none of the candidates could cope with
    reverse-Polish notation ...

    Having gone through college with an HP calculator (this was as
    slide rules and log tables were being phased out) definitely helped.

    pt


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Wed Aug 26 12:17:47 2026
    On 8/26/2026 11:39 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Wed, 26 Aug 2026 06:51:05 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Sun, 23 Aug 2026 13:11:04 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 8/22/2026 9:47 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 17:44:21 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    Postscript is very similar. Early PS printers had full fledged
    computer capabilities ...

    ?Early? or not, if they implemented PostScript, then by definition
    they had ?full-fledged computer capabilities?.

    Very soon, the security issues of having a networked computer that
    anyone could send executable code to led to the PS interpreters
    being locked down, with all the fun stuff removed.

    That would be PDF, not PostScript.

    It was both.

    PDF was designed so that pages could be sent directly to a PostScript
    printer for rendering, by prefixing them with a suitable custom
    prologue. The basic syntax was PostScript-compatible, after all.

    Early on PS programs could open network connections and send stuff
    to other systems, as well as manipulate file systems.

    I don?t recall Apple LaserWriters, or any of the other printers I
    used, having any ability to make network connections to other
    machines. Some PostScript printers/typesetters may have had/needed
    access to local filesystems, but I don?t see why they needed network
    capabilities in the language itself.

    Check this out:

    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-00470-5_28
    PostScript Undead: Pwning the Web with a 35 Years Old Language.

    So what is happening there? Are those sites running Ghostscript at
    their backends in a form accessible from the wider Internet with
    insufficient containment?
    I appears I am mis-remembering.

    pt


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)