• Re: (Tears) A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess

    From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 30 22:03:11 2026
    On 9/27/2026 6:57 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess

    A violent teen participates in cutting-edge research.

    https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/orange-is-the-new-bleak

    I saw the movie 40 ? years ago. I have passed on the book these many years.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 30 21:20:22 2026
    On 9/30/26 20:03, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 9/27/2026 6:57 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess

    A violent teen participates in cutting-edge research.

    https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/orange-is-the-new-bleak

    I saw the movie 40 ? years ago.ÿ I have passed on the book these many
    years.

    Lynn

    I read the book first then then movie unless my memory is
    worse than I think it is. I did not much like the movie but that
    was on other grounds than the story.

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 1 09:49:04 2026
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:
    On 9/30/26 20:03, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    I saw the movie 40 ? years ago.ÿ I have passed on the book these many
    years.

    I read the book first then then movie unless my memory is
    worse than I think it is. I did not much like the movie but that
    was on other grounds than the story.

    The movie is relatively true to the book but adds a style of imagery that
    I could never have imagined reading the book. In some ways the look of
    the film becomes dominant over the story. I don't think that's bad, but
    it makes the film into a very different experience than the book. This is
    one of very few examples where I recommend the book and movie equally.

    The movie is kind of hard to take in parts but it's supposed to be. The
    book is too, although with the book you can skip over the disturbing parts. Maybe that's a point in favor of the movie, that it forces you to watch. --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 1 14:52:54 2026
    On 2026-10-01, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    I read the book first then then movie unless my memory is
    worse than I think it is. I did not much like the movie but that
    was on other grounds than the story.

    I think it was the second time I saw the movie that I realized that
    when the droogs are speeding down the road, they are also driving
    on the wrong side. Because England.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 1 11:58:13 2026
    Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
    On 2026-10-01, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote:

    I read the book first then then movie unless my memory is
    worse than I think it is. I did not much like the movie but that
    was on other grounds than the story.

    I think it was the second time I saw the movie that I realized that
    when the droogs are speeding down the road, they are also driving
    on the wrong side. Because England.

    They're all total kams!
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 1 16:04:42 2026
    WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
    On Sep 27, 2026, Christian Weisgerber wrote
    (in article<slrn11birnc.2l40.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>):

    On 2026-09-27, s|b<me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
    A violent teen participates in cutting-edge research.

    https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/orange-is-the-new-bleak

    They made an appendix of the words/slang being used:
    <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:A_Clockwork_Orange>

    ... a lot of which is transparent if you know Russian, as that
    appendix shows. Or you can turn it around and pick up some Russian
    vocabulary that way.

    Horrowshow.

    Thank you for this excellent, extremely interesting (to me) sub-thread.
    It's always delightful for Science Fiction stories to do double duty by exposing me to some foreign language along the way.
    You guys may know of HORROR SHOW by Christopher Ricks. It's a novel
    and movie review that originally appeared in the 6 April 1972 New York
    Review of Books. Ricks is worthy of my time because he respects Poe.
    Speaking of movies, buyer beware: "Americans have less and less in
    common as a people, but we all watch the same TV shows and the same
    movies." - Tina Brown. In Other Words, he who makes movies and TV shows controls the helm of the USA. Ergo Charles III mentioning Shakespeare by
    name within the first thirty seconds of his first speech to Parliament
    as King.
    LITTLE MADELEINE by Simon Morden is a Catholic Science Fiction
    (CatSF) short story that inverts A CLOCKWORK ORANGE. In it the victim of ultra-violence serves as protagonist:

    "Going somewhere, Long Tall Sally?"
    She turned and made herself thin, trying to shimmy past.
    She succeeded in half falling into another body, and she was
    pushed roughly back.
    "Asked you a question, rude not to answer."
    Behind Madeleine's eyes, the gunfire glittered again.
    She barely heard the soft click of a lockblade swinging into
    position.
    "Do you want me to cut you? Is that it? You going to force
    me to put my tag on your cheeks, let everyone know that you're
    my property? Is that it, freaky? Or is it that you've never
    been had, and you're aching for it.?
    "Let me by," she said, in a whisper. "Please."
    "What's that, freaky? Can't hear you from down here, where
    the normal people live." His voice was the grinding of glass,
    the creak of corrugated iron. "If I cut you another mouth,
    perhaps you'll talk louder."
    "I'm going to be late. I have to get to school."
    "Teacher's pet, freaky. Got a nice rosy apple in that bag?
    Better take a look."
    Not her books. Her discs would become Frisbees and her book,
    her precious book, cigarette paper for some foul concoction a
    two-cent pusher was passing off as hash.

    A furry CatSF short story, DYADS by Pick and Loewen, may be of interest
    to Wolf Fans, or at least Fox Fans. It's set on an alien world called
    Cathuria where Thalendri, fox-like sentients, mate for life:

    As expected, the subject was interconversions, especially
    human-to-Eternal-Dance converts. Thalendri mated for life,
    pair-bonded by reciprocal pheromones. Lust was as rare a
    sin to them as vanity was common; their word for prostitute,
    besher/besherai, literally meant "unable to scent-bond," and
    was closely related to the root word for insanity-kesh.
    Humans were just the opposite; without hardwired pair-bonding
    instincts, unable to mix the sacred and the erotic, when they
    converted to the Thalendri faith or some human approximation
    they eventually drifted into a sex-worshipping fertility cult
    worthy of Baalism.

    A slight shadow of Islamophobia stains DYADS. Epstein Coalition
    colonialism with its accompanying genocide of Palestinians makes my
    tolerance for Islamophobia slight.

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. veritas _|_ telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. liberabit |
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' vos |


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From John Savard@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 8 12:27:23 2026
    On Sun, 27 Sep 2026 11:57:15 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess

    A violent teen participates in cutting-edge research.

    https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/orange-is-the-new-bleak

    I have not watched the movie nor read the book. But based on what I
    heard about the movie, I felt it, and presumably the book, was very wrongheaded.

    A man who commits rape, even once, deserves any punishment he might be
    given, including death by the most hideous tortures concievable. Thus,
    to claim that rehabilitating the protagonist by the means used in the
    book was "wrong" simply does not make sense. Except in the sense that
    such an elaborate means of rehabilitation, instead of, say, a bullet
    to the head, is a wrong waste of taxpayer money.

    John Savard

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 8 10:10:12 2026
    John Savard <quadibloc@invalid.com> wrote:
    A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess

    A violent teen participates in cutting-edge research.

    https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/orange-is-the-new-bleak

    I have not watched the movie nor read the book. But based on what I
    heard about the movie, I felt it, and presumably the book, was very >wrongheaded.

    Watch the movie or read the book. You might not like them, but they will
    make you think. They do not make any value judgements about the process,
    but only show what happens. The viewer, reader, or reviewer is free to
    make their own value judgments.

    A man who commits rape, even once, deserves any punishment he might be
    given, including death by the most hideous tortures concievable. Thus,
    to claim that rehabilitating the protagonist by the means used in the
    book was "wrong" simply does not make sense. Except in the sense that
    such an elaborate means of rehabilitation, instead of, say, a bullet
    to the head, is a wrong waste of taxpayer money.

    There are people in the movie/book who make that argument but the movie/book does not make that argument itself overall.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Fri Oct 9 12:36:16 2026
    On 09/10/2026 01:27, John Savard wrote:

    A man who commits rape, even once, deserves any punishment he might be
    given, including death by the most hideous tortures concievable.

    One of the most conceivable hideous tortures rape. (The Sparrow. Mary
    Doria Russell.)

    to the head, is a wrong waste of taxpayer money.

    What is the right way to waste taxpayer money?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From WolfFan@3:633/10 to All on Sat Oct 10 15:46:07 2026
    On Oct 8, 2026, Titus G wrote
    (in article <11a99dk$9rpa$3@dont-email.me>):

    On 09/10/2026 01:27, John Savard wrote:

    A man who commits rape, even once, deserves any punishment he might be given, including death by the most hideous tortures concievable.

    One of the most conceivable hideous tortures rape. (The Sparrow. Mary
    Doria Russell.)

    to the head, is a wrong waste of taxpayer money.

    What is the right way to waste taxpayer money?

    Vatgirls. He?d waste tapayer money on vatgirls.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Sat Oct 10 13:03:44 2026
    On 10/10/26 12:46, WolfFan wrote:
    On Oct 8, 2026, Titus G wrote
    (in article <11a99dk$9rpa$3@dont-email.me>):

    On 09/10/2026 01:27, John Savard wrote:

    A man who commits rape, even once, deserves any punishment he might be
    given, including death by the most hideous tortures concievable.

    One of the most conceivable hideous tortures rape. (The Sparrow. Mary
    Doria Russell.)

    to the head, is a wrong waste of taxpayer money.

    What is the right way to waste taxpayer money?

    Vatgirls. He?d waste tapayer money on vatgirls.


    I love the old slogan, "Disarm rapists" by which I mean
    surgical removal of the organ of offense. After all "if thy
    hand offend thee cut it off" should be applicable to the
    if you assault someone you lose the organ with which you do that.

    Of course many rapists are actually suffering from
    "erectile dysfunction" and resort to various objects to
    substitute for the flaccid member. So maybe brain surgery
    as well.

    bliss - mean old lady

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)