Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.

Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:

While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.

When I got back from vacation I watched "The Prisoner," a 1967 British
spy series starring Patrick McGoohan as a secret agent who resigns and
is taken to a secret village where he is held prisoner and interrogated
by a different psychedelic technique each week.

That was warm up for finally starting my much-anticipated James Bond
viewing. So far, I have managed to make my way through the original
Sean Connery Bond movies, and "On Her Majesty's Secret Service," and the original "Casino Royale."

I watched "Casino Royale" with a pretty good commentary track that
pointed out the various plot holes and nonsense with the movie. I particularly liked when they would point out a character who would walk
out a door and never be seen again or a character who entered a room who hadn't been in the movie for a good 40 minutes without explanation.


For vacation I did the usual. I went down to Disneyland, but for only 2
days. 2 days was not nearly enough time to do everything!

Then I headed to Vegas for the big annual Star Trek convention. In
addition to the usual Trek actors they had a *lot* of non-Trek actors
there this year. They had several Star Wars actors, including Billy Dee Williams.

They had two actors from Space 1999, Nick Tate who at 83 and Barbara
Bain, who at *93* were both very active and talkative.

They had "Flash Gordon" (Sam Jones) and "Dale Arden" (Melody Anderson).
I had seen Jones a couple of times before, but this was my first time
getting to meet Ms. Anderson. She was so nice and funny.

There was a very minor controversy when during William Shatner's panel
someone in the audience kept doing something that annoyed him.

Apparently he asked them to stop several times and they wouldn't. Some
say Shatner stormed off the stage, others say he just wrapped up
normally but a little early. I saw a clip of it posted online, and it
looked like he just wrapped up normally to me. I was there for the
first half of his panel but I wasn't in the room when it all went down.
That's always my luck.

See for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymZdJx54BN8

Overall, it was a pretty good convention. A few convention goers were complaining about all the non-Trek actors, but I loved it.

One thing that did tick me off was Colm Meaney was supposed to be a
guest. I pre-paid for his autograph, then he cancelled. The event
organizer refunded the autograph fee, but did not refund the service
charge. I complained that I wanted *all* of my money back and they
basically said no, because they didn't have to.

What are they, Ferengi? Are they running the convention based on the
Rules of Acquisition? Anyway, life's too short, I'm just going to drop
it. And publicly complain about it.

And that's pretty much what I've been up to the past month. I'll try to
post regularly again.



--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in >this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.

I get that feeling too at times.

Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:

While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.

Something I've been meaning to do. I've seen all the Matrix movies but
not the last few Terminator movies. They are on my list but just
haven't gotten around to watching them.

When I got back from vacation I watched "The Prisoner," a 1967 British
spy series starring Patrick McGoohan as a secret agent who resigns and
is taken to a secret village where he is held prisoner and interrogated
by a different psychedelic technique each week.

An excellent series that I've seen multiple times over the years.

That was warm up for finally starting my much-anticipated James Bond >viewing. So far, I have managed to make my way through the original
Sean Connery Bond movies, and "On Her Majesty's Secret Service," and the >original "Casino Royale."

I watched "Casino Royale" with a pretty good commentary track that
pointed out the various plot holes and nonsense with the movie. I >particularly liked when they would point out a character who would walk
out a door and never be seen again or a character who entered a room who >hadn't been in the movie for a good 40 minutes without explanation.

I still need to get around to watching the latest set of James Bond
movies with Daniel Craig. While I've seen trailers and snippets of his
movies I haven't yet actually watched an entire James Bond movie with
Craig.

For vacation I did the usual. I went down to Disneyland, but for only 2 >days. 2 days was not nearly enough time to do everything!

You need a week and a extra few thousand dollars. ;)

Then I headed to Vegas for the big annual Star Trek convention. In
addition to the usual Trek actors they had a *lot* of non-Trek actors
there this year. They had several Star Wars actors, including Billy Dee >Williams.

They had two actors from Space 1999, Nick Tate who at 83 and Barbara
Bain, who at *93* were both very active and talkative.

I'm always amazed at people who manage to be both physically and
mentally active in their 90s. I watched a video of Herb Alpert in a
music video who was in his 80s at the time and is on tour now in his
90s. Amazing.

They had "Flash Gordon" (Sam Jones) and "Dale Arden" (Melody Anderson).
I had seen Jones a couple of times before, but this was my first time >getting to meet Ms. Anderson. She was so nice and funny.

Don't recall seeing her in anything other than that MOONLIGHT show.
Her bright eyes always stood out for me.

There was a very minor controversy when during William Shatner's panel >someone in the audience kept doing something that annoyed him.

Apparently he asked them to stop several times and they wouldn't. Some
say Shatner stormed off the stage, others say he just wrapped up
normally but a little early. I saw a clip of it posted online, and it >looked like he just wrapped up normally to me. I was there for the
first half of his panel but I wasn't in the room when it all went down. >That's always my luck.

See for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymZdJx54BN8

Overall, it was a pretty good convention. A few convention goers were >complaining about all the non-Trek actors, but I loved it.

One thing that did tick me off was Colm Meaney was supposed to be a
guest. I pre-paid for his autograph, then he cancelled. The event >organizer refunded the autograph fee, but did not refund the service
charge. I complained that I wanted *all* of my money back and they >basically said no, because they didn't have to.

What are they, Ferengi? Are they running the convention based on the
Rules of Acquisition? Anyway, life's too short, I'm just going to drop
it. And publicly complain about it.

And that's pretty much what I've been up to the past month. I'll try to >post regularly again.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in >this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.

I'm glad you're enjoying your vacation,

The way I deal with crossposted political threads is to subscribe to
certain newsgroups I don't want to read that account for nearly all the crossposting into rec.arts.tv. I junk all the articles in those groups,
which also junks their corresponding article number in groups they were crossposted to. My newsreader has that feature; not all newsreaders will
mark an article as read in each group in the crosspost with one action.

I read rec.arts.tv last; nearly all the off topic crossposts are already junked.

. . .

That was warm up for finally starting my much-anticipated James Bond >viewing. So far, I have managed to make my way through the original
Sean Connery Bond movies, and "On Her Majesty's Secret Service," and the >original "Casino Royale."

I watched "Casino Royale" with a pretty good commentary track that
pointed out the various plot holes and nonsense with the movie. I >particularly liked when they would point out a character who would walk
out a door and never be seen again or a character who entered a room who >hadn't been in the movie for a good 40 minutes without explanation.

There are two reasons to watch. Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass, and
the greatest assemblage of young actresses, one more beautiful than the
next, than any other movie from the '60s.

. . .

They had two actors from Space 1999, Nick Tate who at 83 and Barbara
Bain, who at *93* were both very active and talkative.

Good for her.

. . .

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On 8/22/2025 7:50 PM, shawn wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.

I get that feeling too at times.

There are a lot of people who used to post here who have left over the
years. I'd say that won't be me I'm going to power through. But now I
know how they felt. LOL. Must have something to do with getting older
and having less patience.

Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:

While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.

Something I've been meaning to do. I've seen all the Matrix movies but
not the last few Terminator movies. They are on my list but just
haven't gotten around to watching them.

When I got back from vacation I watched "The Prisoner," a 1967 British
spy series starring Patrick McGoohan as a secret agent who resigns and
is taken to a secret village where he is held prisoner and interrogated
by a different psychedelic technique each week.

An excellent series that I've seen multiple times over the years.

That was warm up for finally starting my much-anticipated James Bond
viewing. So far, I have managed to make my way through the original
Sean Connery Bond movies, and "On Her Majesty's Secret Service," and the
original "Casino Royale."

I watched "Casino Royale" with a pretty good commentary track that
pointed out the various plot holes and nonsense with the movie. I
particularly liked when they would point out a character who would walk
out a door and never be seen again or a character who entered a room who
hadn't been in the movie for a good 40 minutes without explanation.

I still need to get around to watching the latest set of James Bond
movies with Daniel Craig. While I've seen trailers and snippets of his
movies I haven't yet actually watched an entire James Bond movie with
Craig.

I didn't really pick up on this until the last Craig movie came out and
I watched them all back to back, but the Craig Bond movies are one
continuous story. They pretty much pick up where the last one ended,
with one character in particular, who I didn't realize it at first, is
in all the movies. I haven't watched "No Time to Die" since I saw it in
the theater and I'm forward to seeing it again. Actually, I'm looking
forward to seeing all of them again. Some I haven't watched in decades.
And I'm *really* enjoying going through them now.

For vacation I did the usual. I went down to Disneyland, but for only 2
days. 2 days was not nearly enough time to do everything!

You need a week and a extra few thousand dollars. ;)

True! I already know I'm going next year and I plan to be there for
several days for the D23 Expo. It's going to be expensive. Saving up
now! LOL



--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in >this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.

Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:

While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.

Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the
Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.

Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:

While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.

Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D

I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as
good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by
the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads. I was also not
happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2, but then again, all the sequels after T2 ignored T2.

I also like all the Matrix movies. I know it's not a popular thing to
admit, but I liked Matrix 2, more than the first one. I still don't get
what people had against the second movie. Now granted, Matrix 3 has
issue. I won't deny that.

This was my first time watching Matrix 4 since I saw it in the theater.
I went into it more or less looking forward to see it again because I
didn't remember it. Overall, it was OK I guess. The movie was a cash
grab sequel the studio forced the director to make. I know this is true because they literally said it in the movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymTCT1p4cbw

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
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On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb" <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically, >>> I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in >>> this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity >>> and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I >>> did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.

Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights: >>>
While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.

Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the
Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D

I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as
good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by
the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.

The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they
ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE that was a true reboot of the franchise.

(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've chosen to exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which goes a long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2

How did it ignore T2?



--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
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On 8/22/25 7:50 PM, shawn wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.

I get that feeling too at times.

I skip most political posts, and killfile nearly all crossposts. Problem mostly solved.



--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb" <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically, >>>> I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in >>>> this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill >>>> files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity >>>> and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the >>>> next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I >>>> did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went >>>> on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.

Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights: >>>>
While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.

Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the >>> Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D >>

I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as
good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by
the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.

The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE that
was a true reboot of the franchise.

(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've chosen to exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which goes a long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2

How did it ignore T2?

John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or
if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. senator.

According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline, but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down. The first
movie said they only sent one person back in time. That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time.
Now it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple timelines. Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On 8/24/2025 4:08 PM, Arthur Lipscomb wrote:

On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:

ÿ On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
ÿ <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

ÿ Hello All,

ÿ Apparently my absence was noticed.ÿ Let me briefly explain.
Basically,
ÿ I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was
reading in
ÿ this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what >>>>> kill
ÿ files are for.ÿ But at a certain point I was tired of all the
negativity
ÿ and decided I didn't want to read any more.ÿ And the next day and >>>>> the
ÿ next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here.
Although I
ÿ did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity.ÿ And then I >>>>> went
ÿ on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>
ÿ Let me try to catch up.

ÿ There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the
highlights:

ÿ While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.

ÿ Oh, my GOD!ÿÿ You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and
all the
ÿ Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid
negativity?ÿ :D

I actually like all the Terminator movies.ÿ I'm not saying they are as
good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by
the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.

The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they
ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK
FATE that
was a true reboot of the franchise.

(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've
chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which
goes a
long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2

How did it ignore T2?

John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet.ÿ Or
if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. senator.

According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen.ÿ I guess you can say
alternate timeline, but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down.ÿ The first movie said they only sent one person back in time.ÿ That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time.
ÿNow it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple timelines.ÿÿ Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.

The TV series actually addressed this. A couple of the future
resistance fighters who had been sent to the "present" talked about the differences in their timelines from each other's.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On 8/24/2025 4:52 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

On 8/24/2025 4:08 PM, Arthur Lipscomb wrote:

On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:

ÿ On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
ÿ <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

ÿ Hello All,

ÿ Apparently my absence was noticed.ÿ Let me briefly explain.
Basically,
ÿ I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was
reading in
ÿ this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's
what kill
ÿ files are for.ÿ But at a certain point I was tired of all the
negativity
ÿ and decided I didn't want to read any more.ÿ And the next day
and the
ÿ next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here.
Although I
ÿ did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity.ÿ And then >>>>>> I went
ÿ on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>>
ÿ Let me try to catch up.

ÿ There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the
highlights:

ÿ While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.

ÿ Oh, my GOD!ÿÿ You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and
all the
ÿ Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid
negativity?ÿ :D

I actually like all the Terminator movies.ÿ I'm not saying they are as >>>> good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by >>>> the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.

The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they
ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK
FATE that
was a true reboot of the franchise.

(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've
chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which
goes a
long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2

How did it ignore T2?

John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet.
Or if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a
U.S. senator.

According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen.ÿ I guess you can say
alternate timeline, but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down.ÿ The
first movie said they only sent one person back in time.ÿ That movie
made money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back
in time. ÿÿNow it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through
multiple timelines.ÿÿ Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and
Genisys.

The TV series actually addressed this.ÿ A couple of the future
resistance fighters who had been sent to the "present" talked about the differences in their timelines from each other's.

Yeah, I almost mentioned the TV series. I liked that aspect of the
characters actually mentioning being from different timelines. "I never experienced that timeline."

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb" <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill >>>>> files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the >>>>> next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went >>>>> on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>
Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:

While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.

Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the
Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D

I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as
good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by >>> the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.

The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they
ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE >> that
was a true reboot of the franchise.

(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which goes a >> long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2

How did it ignore T2?

John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or
if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. senator.

According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,

Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion.

but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down. The first movie said they only sent one person back in time. That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time.
Now it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple timelines. Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.

Continuity must bend the needs of studio bank accounts.



--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

anim8rfsk <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically, >>>> I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in >>>> this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill >>>> files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity >>>> and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I >>>> did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went >>>> on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.

Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights: >>>>
While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.

Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the >>> Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D

I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as
good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by
the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads. I was also not
happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2, but then again, all the
sequels after T2 ignored T2.

What about the TV series?

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Easynews - www.easynews.com (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 22:50:50 -0400, shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

I'm always amazed at people who manage to be both physically and
mentally active in their 90s. I watched a video of Herb Alpert in a
music video who was in his 80s at the time and is on tour now in his
90s. Amazing.

My grandmother didn't learn how to ride a bike until age 65 then rode
for 20 years. What finally did her in at 91 was getting hip checked by
a woman in a walker who didn't have it fully under control,
hip-checked her with her walker which caused her to fall and break her
hip (her 3rd time but she had recovered from the first two)

I've been away for a week (anybody miss me?) after flying off to
Ontario along with the rest of the family on the west coast and in
England for my mother in law's 90th. Only 3 of my clan didn't make it
to 80 - one was my paternal grandfather who made it to 71 despite
being a 2 pack a day unfiltered home rolled smoker for 40 years (and
if you guess the cause of death you're almost certainly right) my
father at 79 who had dementia issues and my mother who was run over by
a runaway motor home at 75.

Family odds are by no means perfect but I am hopeful.

(Depending on which doctor you believe my wife - who was a strict
anti-vaxxer - either died of COVID or heart failure at 65)

Statistics are helpful but not predictive - my mother was well on
target to outdo her mother and was in excellent shape when the motor
home struck her.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Easynews - www.easynews.com (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 20:29:55 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

There are a lot of people who used to post here who have left over the >years. I'd say that won't be me I'm going to power through. But now I
know how they felt. LOL. Must have something to do with getting older
and having less patience.

Don't let the bastards drag you down - I first posted to Usenet in
1992 and have been an opinionated SOB ever since :) (Before that I had
spent 10 years on local dial-up bulletin boards)

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Easynews - www.easynews.com (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Thu, 28 Aug 2025 18:43:08 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 20:29:55 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb ><arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

There are a lot of people who used to post here who have left over the >>years. I'd say that won't be me I'm going to power through. But now I >>know how they felt. LOL. Must have something to do with getting older >>and having less patience.

Don't let the bastards drag you down - I first posted to Usenet in
1992 and have been an opinionated SOB ever since :) (Before that I had
spent 10 years on local dial-up bulletin boards)

Only 1992? You young whippersnapper. ;)

Got my start in 1988 with the JDYX server that had dial up connections
to a terminal server giving shell access to a Unix server. Though I
think I saw it first back in 1981 or 82 at college where they had a
feed being displayed on a monitor. They also had a feed being
displayed the Associated Press.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Thu, 28 Aug 2025 18:41:21 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 22:50:50 -0400, shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

I'm always amazed at people who manage to be both physically and
mentally active in their 90s. I watched a video of Herb Alpert in a
music video who was in his 80s at the time and is on tour now in his
90s. Amazing.

My grandmother didn't learn how to ride a bike until age 65 then rode
for 20 years. What finally did her in at 91 was getting hip checked by
a woman in a walker who didn't have it fully under control,
hip-checked her with her walker which caused her to fall and break her
hip (her 3rd time but she had recovered from the first two)

I've been away for a week (anybody miss me?)

No because I expect it from you. ;)

It seems your tendency is to go silent and then post replies to all
the subjects in the past week. So it's a flood of posts once a week.
LOL.

after flying off to
Ontario along with the rest of the family on the west coast and in
England for my mother in law's 90th. Only 3 of my clan didn't make it
to 80 - one was my paternal grandfather who made it to 71 despite
being a 2 pack a day unfiltered home rolled smoker for 40 years (and
if you guess the cause of death you're almost certainly right) my
father at 79 who had dementia issues and my mother who was run over by
a runaway motor home at 75.

Family odds are by no means perfect but I am hopeful.

(Depending on which doctor you believe my wife - who was a strict
anti-vaxxer - either died of COVID or heart failure at 65)

Statistics are helpful but not predictive - my mother was well on
target to outdo her mother and was in excellent shape when the motor
home struck her.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb" <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>>
Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:

While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies. >>>>>

Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the
Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D

I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as >>>> good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by >>>> the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.

The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they >>> ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE >>> that
was a true reboot of the franchise.

(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which goes a
long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2

How did it ignore T2?

John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or
if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S.
senator.

According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,

Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion.

True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that
T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want
to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't
they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will
always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads
the resistance.

But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet
because Judgement Day never happens. At some point in a not too distant future, a different AI destroys the world. OK. So what sent back the
3rd Terminator that killed John? Why wasn't a third, fourth, fifth
protector *also* sent back to protect John? Skynet doesn't exist and
Legion is a whole other AI that has nothing to do with the Connor
family. Schwarzenegger's model doesn't even exist in the Legion timeline.

So the in movie explanation is he's from a failed timeline. But what timeline? In order for the timeline to fail, it has to first have
existed. The Skynet timeline was terminated (pun intended) by the
events of T2. If there was an unseen timeline that sent the alternate Schwarzenegger model, well that timeline did succeed in killing John.
John isn't necessary for the creation of Skynet. So he's living or
dying is irrelevant from the position of creating Skynet.

It should be skynet in the future, not Legion.

But the plot hole gets bigger. Because if there was only the third Schwarzenegger model that went back and killed John, OK, you can
fanwank that away as that's the failed timeline. Whatever. Except we
know from dialogue in the movie that there were *multiple* terminators
that continued to be sent through time and Sarah was killing them for
years. So whose sending them back through time? It has to be either
Skynet or Legion.

They didn't think this through. If Skynet succeeds in killing John.
He's not there to lead the resistance. Skynet wins. If there is an
alternate timeline where Skynet does not exist, then Skynet can't have
sent the third (or the first two really) Terminators back through time
to kill John.

The first movie is a closed timeloop. It works perfectly that way. The second movie nudges things a little, but remains a closed timeloop.
After that it becomes an open timeline, but it's build on the foundation
of the closed timeloop from the first two movies. And it doesn't make
sense anymore.

I'm not saying you can't have multiple timelines. There's an infinite
number of AIs popping up and an infinite number of future leaders that
destroy them. Wash, repeat. I'm just saying multiple timelines
spawning from a closed loop timelines doesn't make sense. It's one or
the other.

but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down. The first
movie said they only sent one person back in time. That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time.
Now it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple
timelines. Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.

Continuity must bend the needs of studio bank accounts.

And that explains everything I said above.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Aug 29, 2025 at 9:24:23 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb" <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>>>
Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:

While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies. >>>>>>

Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the
Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D

I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as >>>>> good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for >>>>> unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by
the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.

The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they >>>> ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE
that
was a true reboot of the franchise.

(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've
chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which >>>> goes a
long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2

How did it ignore T2?

John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or >>> if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. >>> senator.

According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,

Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance >> against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion. >>

True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that
T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want
to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't
they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads
the resistance.

But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet because Judgement Day never happens.

Well, that depends on what version of the movie you watch. In the version that 99% of the people saw in the theater, it's unknown whether Judgment Day is prevented or not. The scene with Grandma Sarah and Senator John where she
tells us that JD never happened was cut for the theatrical release. It's unclear whether that's canon in the Terminator Cinematic Universe or not.

At some point in a not too distant
future, a different AI destroys the world. OK. So what sent back the
3rd Terminator that killed John? Why wasn't a third, fourth, fifth protector *also* sent back to protect John?

Yes, that's the question I had. I assumed that the Resistance just didn't know about all of Skynet's assassins and just countered the ones they could.

Skynet doesn't exist and
Legion is a whole other AI that has nothing to do with the Connor
family. Schwarzenegger's model doesn't even exist in the Legion timeline.

So the in movie explanation is he's from a failed timeline. But what timeline? In order for the timeline to fail, it has to first have
existed. The Skynet timeline was terminated (pun intended) by the
events of T2. If there was an unseen timeline that sent the alternate Schwarzenegger model, well that timeline did succeed in killing John.
John isn't necessary for the creation of Skynet. So he's living or
dying is irrelevant from the position of creating Skynet.

All these are good questions but they're questions that inevitably result from any time travel/causality story. The very fact that they're inexplicable paradoxes is one of the reasons time travel is thought to be impossible. I don't count that as a strike against the movie.

It should be skynet in the future, not Legion.

But the plot hole gets bigger. Because if there was only the third Schwarzenegger model that went back and killed John, OK, you can
fanwank that away as that's the failed timeline. Whatever. Except we
know from dialogue in the movie that there were *multiple* terminators
that continued to be sent through time and Sarah was killing them for
years. So whose sending them back through time? It has to be either
Skynet or Legion.

They didn't think this through. If Skynet succeeds in killing John.
He's not there to lead the resistance. Skynet wins. If there is an alternate timeline where Skynet does not exist, then Skynet can't have
sent the third (or the first two really) Terminators back through time
to kill John.

The first movie is a closed timeloop. It works perfectly that way. The second movie nudges things a little, but remains a closed timeloop.
After that it becomes an open timeline, but it's build on the foundation
of the closed timeloop from the first two movies. And it doesn't make
sense anymore.

I'm not saying you can't have multiple timelines. There's an infinite number of AIs popping up and an infinite number of future leaders that destroy them. Wash, repeat. I'm just saying multiple timelines
spawning from a closed loop timelines doesn't make sense. It's one or
the other.

but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down. The first >>> movie said they only sent one person back in time. That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time. >>> Now it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple
timelines. Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.

Continuity must bend to the needs of studio bank accounts.

And that explains everything I said above.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically, >>>>>>> I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill >>>>>>> files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the >>>>>>> next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I >>>>>>> did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went >>>>>>> on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>>>
Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:

While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.

Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the >>>>>> Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D >>>>>

I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as >>>>> good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by >>>>> the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.

The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they >>>> ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE >>>> that
was a true reboot of the franchise.

(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which goes a
long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2

How did it ignore T2?

John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or
if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. >>> senator.

According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,

Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance >> against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion.

True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that
T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want
to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't
they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads
the resistance.

But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet because Judgement Day never happens. At some point in a not too distant future,

Next Sunday, AD

a different AI destroys the world. OK. So what sent back the
3rd Terminator that killed John? Why wasn't a third, fourth, fifth protector *also* sent back to protect John? Skynet doesn't exist and
Legion is a whole other AI that has nothing to do with the Connor
family. Schwarzenegger's model doesn't even exist in the Legion timeline.

So the in movie explanation is he's from a failed timeline. But what timeline? In order for the timeline to fail, it has to first have
existed. The Skynet timeline was terminated (pun intended) by the
events of T2. If there was an unseen timeline that sent the alternate Schwarzenegger model, well that timeline did succeed in killing John.
John isn't necessary for the creation of Skynet. So he's living or
dying is irrelevant from the position of creating Skynet.

It should be skynet in the future, not Legion.

But the plot hole gets bigger. Because if there was only the third Schwarzenegger model that went back and killed John, OK, you can
fanwank that away as that's the failed timeline. Whatever. Except we
know from dialogue in the movie that there were *multiple* terminators
that continued to be sent through time and Sarah was killing them for
years. So whose sending them back through time? It has to be either
Skynet or Legion.

They didn't think this through. If Skynet succeeds in killing John.
He's not there to lead the resistance. Skynet wins. If there is an alternate timeline where Skynet does not exist, then Skynet can't have
sent the third (or the first two really) Terminators back through time
to kill John.

The first movie is a closed timeloop. It works perfectly that way. The second movie nudges things a little, but remains a closed timeloop.
After that it becomes an open timeline, but it's build on the foundation
of the closed timeloop from the first two movies. And it doesn't make
sense anymore.

I'm not saying you can't have multiple timelines. There's an infinite number of AIs popping up and an infinite number of future leaders that destroy them. Wash, repeat. I'm just saying multiple timelines
spawning from a closed loop timelines doesn't make sense. It's one or
the other.

but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down. The first
movie said they only sent one person back in time. That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time. >>> Now it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple
timelines. Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.

Continuity must bend the needs of studio bank accounts.

And that explains everything I said above.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
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BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

On Aug 29, 2025 at 9:24:23 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb" <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill >>>>>>>> files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the >>>>>>>> next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went >>>>>>>> on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>>>>
Let me try to catch up.

There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:

While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies. >>>>>>>

Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the
Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D

I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as >>>>>> good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by >>>>>> the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.

The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they >>>>> ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE >>>>> that
was a true reboot of the franchise.

(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've
chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which >>>>> goes a
long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2

How did it ignore T2?

John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or >>>> if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. >>>> senator.

According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,

Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance >>> against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion. >>>

True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that
T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want
to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't
they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be
prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will
always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads
the resistance.

But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet
because Judgement Day never happens.

Well, that depends on what version of the movie you watch. In the version that
99% of the people saw in the theater, it's unknown whether Judgment Day is prevented or not. The scene with Grandma Sarah and Senator John where she tells us that JD never happened

The version I vastly prefer


was cut for the theatrical release. It's

unclear whether that's canon in the Terminator Cinematic Universe or not.

At some point in a not too distant
future, a different AI destroys the world. OK. So what sent back the
3rd Terminator that killed John? Why wasn't a third, fourth, fifth
protector *also* sent back to protect John?

Yes, that's the question I had. I assumed that the Resistance just didn't know
about all of Skynet's assassins and just countered the ones they could.

Skynet doesn't exist and
Legion is a whole other AI that has nothing to do with the Connor
family. Schwarzenegger's model doesn't even exist in the Legion timeline.

So the in movie explanation is he's from a failed timeline. But what
timeline? In order for the timeline to fail, it has to first have
existed. The Skynet timeline was terminated (pun intended) by the
events of T2. If there was an unseen timeline that sent the alternate
Schwarzenegger model, well that timeline did succeed in killing John.
John isn't necessary for the creation of Skynet. So he's living or
dying is irrelevant from the position of creating Skynet.

All these are good questions but they're questions that inevitably result from
any time travel/causality story. The very fact that they're inexplicable paradoxes is one of the reasons time travel is thought to be impossible. I don't count that as a strike against the movie.

It should be skynet in the future, not Legion.

But the plot hole gets bigger. Because if there was only the third
Schwarzenegger model that went back and killed John, OK, you can
fanwank that away as that's the failed timeline. Whatever. Except we
know from dialogue in the movie that there were *multiple* terminators
that continued to be sent through time and Sarah was killing them for
years. So whose sending them back through time? It has to be either
Skynet or Legion.

They didn't think this through. If Skynet succeeds in killing John.
He's not there to lead the resistance. Skynet wins. If there is an
alternate timeline where Skynet does not exist, then Skynet can't have
sent the third (or the first two really) Terminators back through time
to kill John.

The first movie is a closed timeloop. It works perfectly that way. The
second movie nudges things a little, but remains a closed timeloop.
After that it becomes an open timeline, but it's build on the foundation
of the closed timeloop from the first two movies. And it doesn't make
sense anymore.

I'm not saying you can't have multiple timelines. There's an infinite
number of AIs popping up and an infinite number of future leaders that
destroy them. Wash, repeat. I'm just saying multiple timelines
spawning from a closed loop timelines doesn't make sense. It's one or
the other.

but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down. The first >>>> movie said they only sent one person back in time. That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time. >>>> Now it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple
timelines. Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.

Continuity must bend to the needs of studio bank accounts.

And that explains everything I said above.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Easynews - www.easynews.com (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Aug 29, 2025 at 10:33:29 AM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

On Aug 29, 2025 at 9:24:23 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2

How did it ignore T2?

John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or >>>>> if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. >>>>> senator.

According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,

Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance
against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion. >>>>

True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that >>> T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want
to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't
they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be >>> prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will >>> always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads >>> the resistance.

But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet >>> because Judgement Day never happens.

Well, that depends on what version of the movie you watch. In the version >> that
99% of the people saw in the theater, it's unknown whether Judgment Day is >> prevented or not. The scene with Grandma Sarah and Senator John where she >> tells us that JD never happened

The version I vastly prefer.

BTW, happy anniversary of Skynet’s moment of self-awareness! (2:14AM - August 29th, 1997)



--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

On Aug 29, 2025 at 10:33:29 AM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

On Aug 29, 2025 at 9:24:23 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2

How did it ignore T2?

John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or >>>>>> if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. >>>>>> senator.

According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,

Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance
against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion. >>>>>

True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that >>>> T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want >>>> to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't >>>> they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be >>>> prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will >>>> always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads >>>> the resistance.

But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet >>>> because Judgement Day never happens.

Well, that depends on what version of the movie you watch. In the version >>> that
99% of the people saw in the theater, it's unknown whether Judgment Day is >>> prevented or not. The scene with Grandma Sarah and Senator John where she >>> tells us that JD never happened

The version I vastly prefer.

BTW, happy anniversary of Skynet’s moment of self-awareness! (2:14AM - August
29th, 1997)

The exact moment I regained posting ability



--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Easynews - www.easynews.com (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On 8/29/2025 5:49 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

On Aug 29, 2025 at 10:33:29 AM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote: >>

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

On Aug 29, 2025 at 9:24:23 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2 >>>>>>>>

How did it ignore T2?

John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or >>>>>>> if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S.
senator.

According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say >>>>>>> alternate timeline,

Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance
against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion.

True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that >>>>> T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want >>>>> to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't >>>>> they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be >>>>> prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will >>>>> always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads >>>>> the resistance.

But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet >>>>> because Judgement Day never happens.

Well, that depends on what version of the movie you watch. In the version >>>> that
99% of the people saw in the theater, it's unknown whether Judgment Day is >>>> prevented or not. The scene with Grandma Sarah and Senator John where she >>>> tells us that JD never happened

The version I vastly prefer.

BTW, happy anniversary of Skynet’s moment of self-awareness! (2:14AM - August
29th, 1997)

The exact moment I regained posting ability

Thereby proving that Skynet's kryptonite is your cable company.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

On 8/29/2025 5:49 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

On Aug 29, 2025 at 10:33:29 AM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote: >>>

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

On Aug 29, 2025 at 9:24:23 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:

I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2 >>>>>>>>>

How did it ignore T2?

John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or
if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S.
senator.

According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say >>>>>>>> alternate timeline,

Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance
against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion.

True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that >>>>>> T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want >>>>>> to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't >>>>>> they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be >>>>>> prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains >>>>>> how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will >>>>>> always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads >>>>>> the resistance.

But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet >>>>>> because Judgement Day never happens.

Well, that depends on what version of the movie you watch. In the version >>>>> that
99% of the people saw in the theater, it's unknown whether Judgment Day is
prevented or not. The scene with Grandma Sarah and Senator John where she >>>>> tells us that JD never happened

The version I vastly prefer.

BTW, happy anniversary of Skynet’s moment of self-awareness! (2:14AM - August
29th, 1997)

The exact moment I regained posting ability

Thereby proving that Skynet's kryptonite is your cable company.

Cox Communications cripples everybody. How else can they stop the spread of porn?

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Easynews - www.easynews.com (3:633/280.2@fidonet)