• UK's Ofcom Says 1A Does Not Protect Americans from UK Censorship Law

    From BTR1701@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 16 00:40:42 2025

    https://order-order.com/2025/10/13/ofcom-fines-4chan-20000-for-violating-online-safety-act/

    Ofcom has whacked US-based 4chan with a œ20,000 fine for failing to respond to the watchdog's request for its "illegal harms risk assessment" in compliance with the new Online Safety Act. The first fine of its kind since the Act was introduced.

    The internet sheriff has told 4chan it will also start charging œ100 per day from tomorrow:

    "The provider of 4chan has not responded to our request for
    a copy of its illegal harms risk assessment, nor a second request
    relating to its qualifying worldwide revenue. As a result, Ofcom
    has fined 4chan œ20,000. We will also impose a daily penalty of
    œ100 per day, starting from tomorrow, for either 60 days or
    until 4chan provides us with this information, whichever is sooner."

    Ofcom's Director of Enforcement Suzanne Cater today warned the fine "sends a clear message that anyone violating the act can expect the same treatment". Preston Byrne, a lawyer representing 4chan, said the company isn?t taking this lying down:

    "?4chan's constitutional rights remain completely unaffected
    by this foreign e-mail. 4chan will obey UK censorship laws when
    pigs fly. In the meantime, there's litigation pending in DC which
    Ofcom hasn't yet answered. We'll see Ofcom in court."

    The lawsuit, which 4chan filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, rejected Ofcom's demands. It stated that 4chan is an American
    company with no establishment, assets, or operations in the United Kingdom and stated that American businesses are protected by the 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution. Ofcom responded that a United States District
    Court has no jurisdiction over a subdivision of the British government, citing sovereign immunity.

    In addition, in responding to 4chan's claim of protection under the 1st Amendment, Ofcom made the stunning claim that the 1st Amendment is irrelevant and that UK law supersedes U.S. law. Indeed, it would seem to be making the claim the UK law supersedes the laws of all nations worldwide and is supreme:

    "We do not accept this point. (That American businesses
    are protected by the 1st Amendment.) The Online Safety
    Act explicitly grants Ofcom the legal authority to regulate
    online safety for individuals in the United Kingdom, and this
    expressly includes conducting investigations into, and
    imposing penalties for, non-compliance by providers of
    online services that qualify under the Act.

    "The Act expressly anticipates that it will have extra-territorial
    effect, stating at section 204(1): 'References in this Act to
    an internet service, a user-to-user service or a search service
    include such a service provided from outside the United Kingdom.'

    "It is clear, therefore, that providers of services based
    outside the United Kingdom can have duties under the Act
    and that Ofcom can enforce those duties using powers
    provided to it in the Act. We also note 4chan's claim that it is
    protected from enforcement action taken by Ofcom because
    of the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. However the
    1st Amendment binds only the U.S. government and not
    overseas bodies, such as Ofcom, and therefore, it does not
    affect Ofcom's power to enforce the Act in this case."

    I'm not sure what Ofcom's lawyers are telling them, but perhaps they should enlist the services of an American law firm that specializes in Constitutional law, because what they claim is absolutely full of shit.

    American's do not lose their 1st Amendment rights merely because they put up a website on the internet. Not only does the 1st Amendment protect their speech, we also have a statute, passed by Congress about 15 years ago, that prohibits American courts from enforcing foreign judgments for speech that is protected by the 1st Amendment. So I have no idea how Ofcom plans on collecting its
    fines against 4chan.

    It's also amusing that Ofcom thinks it can sue Americans, but that Americans can't sue them back by claiming sovereign immunity:

    OFCOM: "You have no rights under US law; UK law is all that matters. However, we will run and hide behind the protections of US law if you challenge us."

    For his part, 4chan's attorney tweeted:

    In view of Ofcom not seeing sense after our last response,
    which advised them about the futility of this effort under
    US law, this time around I thanked Ofcom for providing
    excellent bedding for my pet hamster.

    Utterly unserious agency



    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Wed Oct 15 20:51:56 2025
    On 2025-10-15 8:40 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:

    https://order-order.com/2025/10/13/ofcom-fines-4chan-20000-for-violating-online-safety-act/

    Ofcom has whacked US-based 4chan with a œ20,000 fine for failing to respond to
    the watchdog's request for its "illegal harms risk assessment" in compliance with the new Online Safety Act. The first fine of its kind since the Act was introduced.

    The internet sheriff has told 4chan it will also start charging œ100 per day from tomorrow:

    "The provider of 4chan has not responded to our request for
    a copy of its illegal harms risk assessment, nor a second request
    relating to its qualifying worldwide revenue. As a result, Ofcom
    has fined 4chan œ20,000. We will also impose a daily penalty of
    œ100 per day, starting from tomorrow, for either 60 days or
    until 4chan provides us with this information, whichever is sooner."

    Ofcom's Director of Enforcement Suzanne Cater today warned the fine "sends a clear message that anyone violating the act can expect the same treatment". Preston Byrne, a lawyer representing 4chan, said the company isn?t taking this
    lying down:

    "?4chan's constitutional rights remain completely unaffected
    by this foreign e-mail. 4chan will obey UK censorship laws when
    pigs fly. In the meantime, there's litigation pending in DC which
    Ofcom hasn't yet answered. We'll see Ofcom in court."

    The lawsuit, which 4chan filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, rejected Ofcom's demands. It stated that 4chan is an American company with no establishment, assets, or operations in the United Kingdom and
    stated that American businesses are protected by the 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution. Ofcom responded that a United States District Court has no jurisdiction over a subdivision of the British government, citing
    sovereign immunity.

    In addition, in responding to 4chan's claim of protection under the 1st Amendment, Ofcom made the stunning claim that the 1st Amendment is irrelevant and that UK law supersedes U.S. law. Indeed, it would seem to be making the claim the UK law supersedes the laws of all nations worldwide and is supreme:

    "We do not accept this point. (That American businesses
    are protected by the 1st Amendment.) The Online Safety
    Act explicitly grants Ofcom the legal authority to regulate
    online safety for individuals in the United Kingdom, and this
    expressly includes conducting investigations into, and
    imposing penalties for, non-compliance by providers of
    online services that qualify under the Act.

    "The Act expressly anticipates that it will have extra-territorial
    effect, stating at section 204(1): 'References in this Act to
    an internet service, a user-to-user service or a search service
    include such a service provided from outside the United Kingdom.'

    "It is clear, therefore, that providers of services based
    outside the United Kingdom can have duties under the Act
    and that Ofcom can enforce those duties using powers
    provided to it in the Act. We also note 4chan's claim that it is
    protected from enforcement action taken by Ofcom because
    of the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. However the
    1st Amendment binds only the U.S. government and not
    overseas bodies, such as Ofcom, and therefore, it does not
    affect Ofcom's power to enforce the Act in this case."

    I'm not sure what Ofcom's lawyers are telling them, but perhaps they should enlist the services of an American law firm that specializes in Constitutional
    law, because what they claim is absolutely full of shit.

    American's do not lose their 1st Amendment rights merely because they put up a
    website on the internet. Not only does the 1st Amendment protect their speech,
    we also have a statute, passed by Congress about 15 years ago, that prohibits American courts from enforcing foreign judgments for speech that is protected by the 1st Amendment. So I have no idea how Ofcom plans on collecting its fines against 4chan.

    It's also amusing that Ofcom thinks it can sue Americans, but that Americans can't sue them back by claiming sovereign immunity:

    OFCOM: "You have no rights under US law; UK law is all that matters. However, we will run and hide behind the protections of US law if you challenge us."

    For his part, 4chan's attorney tweeted:

    In view of Ofcom not seeing sense after our last response,
    which advised them about the futility of this effort under
    US law, this time around I thanked Ofcom for providing
    excellent bedding for my pet hamster.

    Utterly unserious agency


    Wow, the sheer audacity of trying to punish Americans under British law
    given the protections Americans have under their own laws....

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From moviePig@3:633/10 to All on Wed Oct 15 22:45:08 2025
    On 10/15/2025 8:51 PM, Rhino wrote:
    On 2025-10-15 8:40 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:

    https://order-order.com/2025/10/13/ofcom-fines-4chan-20000-for-
    violating-online-safety-act/

    Ofcom has whacked US-based 4chan with a œ20,000 fine for failing to
    respond to
    the watchdog's request for its "illegal harms risk assessment" in
    compliance
    with the new Online Safety Act. The first fine of its kind since the
    Act was
    introduced.

    The internet sheriff has told 4chan it will also start charging œ100
    per day
    from tomorrow:

    ÿÿÿÿÿ "The provider of 4chan has not responded to our request for
    ÿÿÿÿÿ a copy of its illegal harms risk assessment, nor a second request
    ÿÿÿÿÿ relating to its qualifying worldwide revenue. As a result, Ofcom
    ÿÿÿÿÿ has fined 4chan œ20,000. We will also impose a daily penalty of
    ÿÿÿÿÿ œ100 per day, starting from tomorrow, for either 60 days or
    ÿÿÿÿÿ until 4chan provides us with this information, whichever is
    sooner."

    Ofcom's Director of Enforcement Suzanne Cater today warned the fine
    "sends a
    clear message that anyone violating the act can expect the same
    treatment".
    Preston Byrne, a lawyer representing 4chan, said the company isn?t
    taking this
    lying down:

    ÿÿÿÿÿ "?4chan's constitutional rights remain completely unaffected
    ÿÿÿÿÿ by this foreign e-mail. 4chan will obey UK censorship laws when
    ÿÿÿÿÿ pigs fly. In the meantime, there's litigation pending in DC which
    ÿÿÿÿÿ Ofcom hasn't yet answered. We'll see Ofcom in court."

    The lawsuit, which 4chan filed in the U.S. District Court for the
    District of
    Columbia, rejected Ofcom's demands. It stated that 4chan is an American
    company with no establishment, assets, or operations in the United
    Kingdom and
    stated that American businesses are protected by the 1st Amendment to the
    United States Constitution. Ofcom responded that a United States District
    Court has no jurisdiction over a subdivision of the British
    government, citing
    sovereign immunity.

    In addition, in responding to 4chan's claim of protection under the 1st
    Amendment, Ofcom made the stunning claim that the 1st Amendment is
    irrelevant
    and that UK law supersedes U.S. law. Indeed, it would seem to be
    making the
    claim the UK law supersedes the laws of all nations worldwide and is
    supreme:

    ÿÿÿÿÿ "We do not accept this point. (That American businesses
    ÿÿÿÿÿ are protected by the 1st Amendment.) The Online Safety
    ÿÿÿÿÿ Act explicitly grants Ofcom the legal authority to regulate
    ÿÿÿÿÿ online safety for individuals in the United Kingdom, and this
    ÿÿÿÿÿ expressly includes conducting investigations into, and
    ÿÿÿÿÿ imposing penalties for, non-compliance by providers of
    ÿÿÿÿÿ online services that qualify under the Act.

    ÿÿÿÿÿ "The Act expressly anticipates that it will have extra-territorial
    ÿÿÿÿÿ effect, stating at section 204(1): 'References in this Act to
    ÿÿÿÿÿ an internet service, a user-to-user service or a search service
    ÿÿÿÿÿ include such a service provided from outside the United Kingdom.'

    ÿÿÿÿÿ "It is clear, therefore, that providers of services based
    ÿÿÿÿÿ outside the United Kingdom can have duties under the Act
    ÿÿÿÿÿ and that Ofcom can enforce those duties using powers
    ÿÿÿÿÿ provided to it in the Act. We also note 4chan's claim that it is
    ÿÿÿÿÿ protected from enforcement action taken by Ofcom because
    ÿÿÿÿÿ of the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. However the
    ÿÿÿÿÿ 1st Amendment binds only the U.S. government and not
    ÿÿÿÿÿ overseas bodies, such as Ofcom, and therefore, it does not
    ÿÿÿÿÿ affect Ofcom's power to enforce the Act in this case."

    I'm not sure what Ofcom's lawyers are telling them, but perhaps they
    should
    enlist the services of an American law firm that specializes in
    Constitutional
    law, because what they claim is absolutely full of shit.

    American's do not lose their 1st Amendment rights merely because they
    put up a
    website on the internet. Not only does the 1st Amendment protect their
    speech,
    we also have a statute, passed by Congress about 15 years ago, that
    prohibits
    American courts from enforcing foreign judgments for speech that is
    protected
    by the 1st Amendment. So I have no idea how Ofcom plans on collecting its
    fines against 4chan.

    It's also amusing that Ofcom thinks it can sue Americans, but that
    Americans
    can't sue them back by claiming sovereign immunity:

    OFCOM: "You have no rights under US law; UK law is all that matters.
    However,
    we will run and hide behind the protections of US law if you challenge
    us."

    For his part, 4chan's attorney tweeted:

    ÿÿÿÿÿ In view of Ofcom not seeing sense after our last response,
    ÿÿÿÿÿ which advised them about the futility of this effort under
    ÿÿÿÿÿ US law, this time around I thanked Ofcom for providing
    ÿÿÿÿÿ excellent bedding for my pet hamster.

    ÿÿÿÿÿ Utterly unserious agency


    Wow, the sheer audacity of trying to punish Americans under British law given the protections Americans have under their own laws....

    The Brits claim it's to defeat kiddie porn, which is beginning to
    acquire 'Godwin's Law' stature in its ability to shame and silence open opposition. This could be a Skokie moment.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Wed Oct 15 23:27:00 2025
    On 2025-10-15 8:40 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:

    https://order-order.com/2025/10/13/ofcom-fines-4chan-20000-for-violating-online-safety-act/

    Ofcom has whacked US-based 4chan with a œ20,000 fine for failing to respond to
    the watchdog's request for its "illegal harms risk assessment" in compliance with the new Online Safety Act. The first fine of its kind since the Act was introduced.

    The internet sheriff has told 4chan it will also start charging œ100 per day from tomorrow:

    "The provider of 4chan has not responded to our request for
    a copy of its illegal harms risk assessment, nor a second request
    relating to its qualifying worldwide revenue. As a result, Ofcom
    has fined 4chan œ20,000. We will also impose a daily penalty of
    œ100 per day, starting from tomorrow, for either 60 days or
    until 4chan provides us with this information, whichever is sooner."

    Ofcom's Director of Enforcement Suzanne Cater today warned the fine "sends a clear message that anyone violating the act can expect the same treatment". Preston Byrne, a lawyer representing 4chan, said the company isn?t taking this
    lying down:

    "?4chan's constitutional rights remain completely unaffected
    by this foreign e-mail. 4chan will obey UK censorship laws when
    pigs fly. In the meantime, there's litigation pending in DC which
    Ofcom hasn't yet answered. We'll see Ofcom in court."

    The lawsuit, which 4chan filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, rejected Ofcom's demands. It stated that 4chan is an American company with no establishment, assets, or operations in the United Kingdom and
    stated that American businesses are protected by the 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution. Ofcom responded that a United States District Court has no jurisdiction over a subdivision of the British government, citing
    sovereign immunity.

    In addition, in responding to 4chan's claim of protection under the 1st Amendment, Ofcom made the stunning claim that the 1st Amendment is irrelevant and that UK law supersedes U.S. law. Indeed, it would seem to be making the claim the UK law supersedes the laws of all nations worldwide and is supreme:

    "We do not accept this point. (That American businesses
    are protected by the 1st Amendment.) The Online Safety
    Act explicitly grants Ofcom the legal authority to regulate
    online safety for individuals in the United Kingdom, and this
    expressly includes conducting investigations into, and
    imposing penalties for, non-compliance by providers of
    online services that qualify under the Act.

    "The Act expressly anticipates that it will have extra-territorial
    effect, stating at section 204(1): 'References in this Act to
    an internet service, a user-to-user service or a search service
    include such a service provided from outside the United Kingdom.'

    "It is clear, therefore, that providers of services based
    outside the United Kingdom can have duties under the Act
    and that Ofcom can enforce those duties using powers
    provided to it in the Act. We also note 4chan's claim that it is
    protected from enforcement action taken by Ofcom because
    of the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. However the
    1st Amendment binds only the U.S. government and not
    overseas bodies, such as Ofcom, and therefore, it does not
    affect Ofcom's power to enforce the Act in this case."

    I'm not sure what Ofcom's lawyers are telling them, but perhaps they should enlist the services of an American law firm that specializes in Constitutional
    law, because what they claim is absolutely full of shit.

    American's do not lose their 1st Amendment rights merely because they put up a
    website on the internet. Not only does the 1st Amendment protect their speech,
    we also have a statute, passed by Congress about 15 years ago, that prohibits American courts from enforcing foreign judgments for speech that is protected by the 1st Amendment. So I have no idea how Ofcom plans on collecting its fines against 4chan.

    It's also amusing that Ofcom thinks it can sue Americans, but that Americans can't sue them back by claiming sovereign immunity:

    OFCOM: "You have no rights under US law; UK law is all that matters. However, we will run and hide behind the protections of US law if you challenge us."

    For his part, 4chan's attorney tweeted:

    In view of Ofcom not seeing sense after our last response,
    which advised them about the futility of this effort under
    US law, this time around I thanked Ofcom for providing
    excellent bedding for my pet hamster.

    Utterly unserious agency



    I learned something interesting just now. I had always thought that
    OFCOM's job was to regulate broadcasting and the Internet in the UK but
    it seems they have a broader remit. They've apparently just fined the
    Royal Mail 21 million pounds because they are failing to get a
    sufficient percentage of mail delivered according to the Post Office's
    own delivery targets. Apparently, the Post Office is NOT even fighting
    that and agrees that letters and parcels are not being delivered in a sufficiently timely fashion. (They promise to hire more people and use
    more efficient methods to improve their service.)

    The fact that OFCOM apparently oversees the Post Office too makes me
    wonder what else they oversee....

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BTR1701@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 16 04:36:29 2025
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
    On 2025-10-15 8:40 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:

    https://order-order.com/2025/10/13/ofcom-fines-4chan-20000-for-violating-online-safety-act/

    Ofcom has whacked US-based 4chan with a œ20,000 fine for failing to respond to
    the watchdog's request for its "illegal harms risk assessment" in compliance >> with the new Online Safety Act. The first fine of its kind since the Act was >> introduced.

    The internet sheriff has told 4chan it will also start charging œ100 per day >> from tomorrow:

    "The provider of 4chan has not responded to our request for
    a copy of its illegal harms risk assessment, nor a second request
    relating to its qualifying worldwide revenue. As a result, Ofcom
    has fined 4chan œ20,000. We will also impose a daily penalty of
    œ100 per day, starting from tomorrow, for either 60 days or
    until 4chan provides us with this information, whichever is sooner."

    Ofcom's Director of Enforcement Suzanne Cater today warned the fine "sends a >> clear message that anyone violating the act can expect the same treatment". >> Preston Byrne, a lawyer representing 4chan, said the company isn?t taking this
    lying down:

    "?4chan's constitutional rights remain completely unaffected
    by this foreign e-mail. 4chan will obey UK censorship laws when
    pigs fly. In the meantime, there's litigation pending in DC which
    Ofcom hasn't yet answered. We'll see Ofcom in court."

    The lawsuit, which 4chan filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of
    Columbia, rejected Ofcom's demands. It stated that 4chan is an American
    company with no establishment, assets, or operations in the United Kingdom and
    stated that American businesses are protected by the 1st Amendment to the
    United States Constitution. Ofcom responded that a United States District
    Court has no jurisdiction over a subdivision of the British government, citing
    sovereign immunity.

    In addition, in responding to 4chan's claim of protection under the 1st
    Amendment, Ofcom made the stunning claim that the 1st Amendment is irrelevant
    and that UK law supersedes U.S. law. Indeed, it would seem to be making the >> claim the UK law supersedes the laws of all nations worldwide and is supreme:

    "We do not accept this point. (That American businesses
    are protected by the 1st Amendment.) The Online Safety
    Act explicitly grants Ofcom the legal authority to regulate
    online safety for individuals in the United Kingdom, and this
    expressly includes conducting investigations into, and
    imposing penalties for, non-compliance by providers of
    online services that qualify under the Act.

    "The Act expressly anticipates that it will have extra-territorial
    effect, stating at section 204(1): 'References in this Act to
    an internet service, a user-to-user service or a search service
    include such a service provided from outside the United Kingdom.'

    "It is clear, therefore, that providers of services based
    outside the United Kingdom can have duties under the Act
    and that Ofcom can enforce those duties using powers
    provided to it in the Act. We also note 4chan's claim that it is
    protected from enforcement action taken by Ofcom because
    of the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. However the
    1st Amendment binds only the U.S. government and not
    overseas bodies, such as Ofcom, and therefore, it does not
    affect Ofcom's power to enforce the Act in this case."

    I'm not sure what Ofcom's lawyers are telling them, but perhaps they should >> enlist the services of an American law firm that specializes in Constitutional
    law, because what they claim is absolutely full of shit.

    American's do not lose their 1st Amendment rights merely because they put up a
    website on the internet. Not only does the 1st Amendment protect their speech,
    we also have a statute, passed by Congress about 15 years ago, that prohibits
    American courts from enforcing foreign judgments for speech that is protected
    by the 1st Amendment. So I have no idea how Ofcom plans on collecting its
    fines against 4chan.

    It's also amusing that Ofcom thinks it can sue Americans, but that Americans >> can't sue them back by claiming sovereign immunity:

    OFCOM: "You have no rights under US law; UK law is all that matters. However,
    we will run and hide behind the protections of US law if you challenge us." >>
    For his part, 4chan's attorney tweeted:

    In view of Ofcom not seeing sense after our last response,
    which advised them about the futility of this effort under
    US law, this time around I thanked Ofcom for providing
    excellent bedding for my pet hamster.

    Utterly unserious agency



    I learned something interesting just now. I had always thought that
    OFCOM's job was to regulate broadcasting and the Internet in the UK but
    it seems they have a broader remit. They've apparently just fined the
    Royal Mail 21 million pounds because they are failing to get a
    sufficient percentage of mail delivered according to the Post Office's
    own delivery targets. Apparently, the Post Office is NOT even fighting
    that and agrees that letters and parcels are not being delivered in a sufficiently timely fashion. (They promise to hire more people and use
    more efficient methods to improve their service.)

    The fact that OFCOM apparently oversees the Post Office too makes me
    wonder what else they oversee....

    Apparently they oversee the United States, at least in their own minds.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From danny burstein@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 16 12:16:36 2025
    In <10cpom3$4efm$1@dont-email.me> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> writes:
    [snip]

    I learned something interesting just now. I had always thought that
    OFCOM's job was to regulate broadcasting and the Internet in the UK but
    it seems they have a broader remit. They've apparently just fined the
    Royal Mail 21 million pounds because they are failing to get a
    sufficient percentage of mail delivered according to the Post Office's
    own delivery targets. Apparently, the Post Office is NOT even fighting
    that and agrees that letters and parcels are not being delivered in a >sufficiently timely fashion. (They promise to hire more people and use
    more efficient methods to improve their service.)

    The fact that OFCOM apparently oversees the Post Office too makes me
    wonder what else they oversee....

    Just wait until you look at the Texas Rail Road Commission....



    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    dannyb@panix.com
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From anim8rfsk@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 16 05:56:25 2025
    moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
    On 10/15/2025 8:51 PM, Rhino wrote:
    On 2025-10-15 8:40 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:

    https://order-order.com/2025/10/13/ofcom-fines-4chan-20000-for-
    violating-online-safety-act/

    Ofcom has whacked US-based 4chan with a œ20,000 fine for failing to
    respond to
    the watchdog's request for its "illegal harms risk assessment" in
    compliance
    with the new Online Safety Act. The first fine of its kind since the
    Act was
    introduced.

    The internet sheriff has told 4chan it will also start charging œ100
    per day
    from tomorrow:

    ÿÿÿÿÿ "The provider of 4chan has not responded to our request for
    ÿÿÿÿÿ a copy of its illegal harms risk assessment, nor a second request
    ÿÿÿÿÿ relating to its qualifying worldwide revenue. As a result, Ofcom
    ÿÿÿÿÿ has fined 4chan œ20,000. We will also impose a daily penalty of
    ÿÿÿÿÿ œ100 per day, starting from tomorrow, for either 60 days or
    ÿÿÿÿÿ until 4chan provides us with this information, whichever is
    sooner."

    Ofcom's Director of Enforcement Suzanne Cater today warned the fine
    "sends a
    clear message that anyone violating the act can expect the same
    treatment".
    Preston Byrne, a lawyer representing 4chan, said the company isn?t
    taking this
    lying down:

    ÿÿÿÿÿ "?4chan's constitutional rights remain completely unaffected
    ÿÿÿÿÿ by this foreign e-mail. 4chan will obey UK censorship laws when
    ÿÿÿÿÿ pigs fly. In the meantime, there's litigation pending in DC which
    ÿÿÿÿÿ Ofcom hasn't yet answered. We'll see Ofcom in court."

    The lawsuit, which 4chan filed in the U.S. District Court for the
    District of
    Columbia, rejected Ofcom's demands. It stated that 4chan is an American
    company with no establishment, assets, or operations in the United
    Kingdom and
    stated that American businesses are protected by the 1st Amendment to the >>> United States Constitution. Ofcom responded that a United States District >>> Court has no jurisdiction over a subdivision of the British
    government, citing
    sovereign immunity.

    In addition, in responding to 4chan's claim of protection under the 1st
    Amendment, Ofcom made the stunning claim that the 1st Amendment is
    irrelevant
    and that UK law supersedes U.S. law. Indeed, it would seem to be
    making the
    claim the UK law supersedes the laws of all nations worldwide and is
    supreme:

    ÿÿÿÿÿ "We do not accept this point. (That American businesses
    ÿÿÿÿÿ are protected by the 1st Amendment.) The Online Safety
    ÿÿÿÿÿ Act explicitly grants Ofcom the legal authority to regulate
    ÿÿÿÿÿ online safety for individuals in the United Kingdom, and this
    ÿÿÿÿÿ expressly includes conducting investigations into, and
    ÿÿÿÿÿ imposing penalties for, non-compliance by providers of
    ÿÿÿÿÿ online services that qualify under the Act.

    ÿÿÿÿÿ "The Act expressly anticipates that it will have extra-territorial >>> ÿÿÿÿÿ effect, stating at section 204(1): 'References in this Act to
    ÿÿÿÿÿ an internet service, a user-to-user service or a search service
    ÿÿÿÿÿ include such a service provided from outside the United Kingdom.'

    ÿÿÿÿÿ "It is clear, therefore, that providers of services based
    ÿÿÿÿÿ outside the United Kingdom can have duties under the Act
    ÿÿÿÿÿ and that Ofcom can enforce those duties using powers
    ÿÿÿÿÿ provided to it in the Act. We also note 4chan's claim that it is
    ÿÿÿÿÿ protected from enforcement action taken by Ofcom because
    ÿÿÿÿÿ of the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. However the
    ÿÿÿÿÿ 1st Amendment binds only the U.S. government and not
    ÿÿÿÿÿ overseas bodies, such as Ofcom, and therefore, it does not
    ÿÿÿÿÿ affect Ofcom's power to enforce the Act in this case."

    I'm not sure what Ofcom's lawyers are telling them, but perhaps they
    should
    enlist the services of an American law firm that specializes in
    Constitutional
    law, because what they claim is absolutely full of shit.

    American's do not lose their 1st Amendment rights merely because they
    put up a
    website on the internet. Not only does the 1st Amendment protect their
    speech,
    we also have a statute, passed by Congress about 15 years ago, that
    prohibits
    American courts from enforcing foreign judgments for speech that is
    protected
    by the 1st Amendment. So I have no idea how Ofcom plans on collecting its >>> fines against 4chan.

    It's also amusing that Ofcom thinks it can sue Americans, but that
    Americans
    can't sue them back by claiming sovereign immunity:

    OFCOM: "You have no rights under US law; UK law is all that matters.
    However,
    we will run and hide behind the protections of US law if you challenge
    us."

    For his part, 4chan's attorney tweeted:

    ÿÿÿÿÿ In view of Ofcom not seeing sense after our last response,
    ÿÿÿÿÿ which advised them about the futility of this effort under
    ÿÿÿÿÿ US law, this time around I thanked Ofcom for providing
    ÿÿÿÿÿ excellent bedding for my pet hamster.

    ÿÿÿÿÿ Utterly unserious agency


    Wow, the sheer audacity of trying to punish Americans under British law
    given the protections Americans have under their own laws....

    The Brits claim it's to defeat kiddie porn, which is beginning to
    acquire 'Godwin's Law' stature in its ability to shame and silence open opposition. This could be a Skokie moment.


    It?s Cox Communications go to excuse. ?We limit your upload speed to 10% of your download speed to make sure nobody is hosting porn on our system?



    --
    The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BTR1701@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 16 16:49:37 2025
    On Oct 16, 2025 at 5:16:36 AM PDT, "danny burstein" <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

    In <10cpom3$4efm$1@dont-email.me> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> writes:
    [snip]

    I learned something interesting just now. I had always thought that
    OFCOM's job was to regulate broadcasting and the Internet in the UK but
    it seems they have a broader remit. They've apparently just fined the
    Royal Mail 21 million pounds because they are failing to get a
    sufficient percentage of mail delivered according to the Post Office's
    own delivery targets. Apparently, the Post Office is NOT even fighting
    that and agrees that letters and parcels are not being delivered in a
    sufficiently timely fashion. (They promise to hire more people and use
    more efficient methods to improve their service.)

    The fact that OFCOM apparently oversees the Post Office too makes me
    wonder what else they oversee....

    Just wait until you look at the Texas Rail Road Commission....

    The Texas Railroad Commission purports to regulate the speech and activities
    of citizens of other countries? Do tell...



    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From danny burstein@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 16 17:04:46 2025
    In <10cr7n1$hbiu$1@dont-email.me> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> writes:

    [snip]
    The fact that OFCOM apparently oversees the Post Office too makes me

    wonder what else they oversee....

    Just wait until you look at the Texas Rail Road Commission....

    The Texas Railroad Commission purports to regulate the speech and activities >of citizens of other countries? Do tell...

    Don't give them any ideas....

    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    dannyb@panix.com
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BTR1701@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 16 17:10:18 2025
    On Oct 16, 2025 at 10:04:46 AM PDT, "danny burstein" <dannyb@panix.com>
    wrote:

    In <10cr7n1$hbiu$1@dont-email.me> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> writes:

    [snip]
    The fact that OFCOM apparently oversees the Post Office too makes me

    wonder what else they oversee....

    Just wait until you look at the Texas Rail Road Commission....

    The Texas Railroad Commission purports to regulate the speech and activities >> of citizens of other countries? Do tell...

    Don't give them any ideas....

    I don't need to. According to you, they already make Ofcom look like pikers. I'd love to hear the details.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 16 17:33:15 2025
    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

    https://order-order.com/2025/10/13/ofcom-fines-4chan-20000-for-violating-online-safety-act/

    In addition, in responding to 4chan's claim of protection under the 1st >Amendment, Ofcom made the stunning claim that the 1st Amendment is irrelevant >and that UK law supersedes U.S. law. Indeed, it would seem to be making the >claim the UK law supersedes the laws of all nations worldwide and is supreme:

    Yay! George III has resumed his reign as King of America! I had no idea
    that could be done by standards enforcement.

    Am I now required to quarter a Muslim family from North Africa?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From danny burstein@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 16 17:34:33 2025
    In <10cr8tp$hbiu$4@dont-email.me> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> writes:

    On Oct 16, 2025 at 10:04:46 AM PDT, "danny burstein" <dannyb@panix.com> >wrote:

    In <10cr7n1$hbiu$1@dont-email.me> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> writes:

    [snip]
    The fact that OFCOM apparently oversees the Post Office too makes me

    wonder what else they oversee....

    Just wait until you look at the Texas Rail Road Commission....

    The Texas Railroad Commission purports to regulate the speech and activities
    of citizens of other countries? Do tell...

    Don't give them any ideas....

    I don't need to. According to you, they already make Ofcom look like pikers. >I'd love to hear the details.

    The Wiki description is a good start. Now visualize how they
    can easily use those defined powers for lots of extended evil...




    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    dannyb@panix.com
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BTR1701@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 16 17:41:29 2025
    On Oct 16, 2025 at 10:34:33 AM PDT, "danny burstein" <dannyb@panix.com>
    wrote:

    In <10cr8tp$hbiu$4@dont-email.me> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> writes:

    On Oct 16, 2025 at 10:04:46 AM PDT, "danny burstein" <dannyb@panix.com>
    wrote:

    In <10cr7n1$hbiu$1@dont-email.me> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> writes:

    [snip]
    The fact that OFCOM apparently oversees the Post Office too makes me >>>
    wonder what else they oversee....

    Just wait until you look at the Texas Rail Road Commission....

    The Texas Railroad Commission purports to regulate the speech and activities
    of citizens of other countries? Do tell...

    Don't give them any ideas....

    I don't need to. According to you, they already make Ofcom look like pikers. >> I'd love to hear the details.

    The Wiki description is a good start. Now visualize how they
    can easily use those defined powers for lots of extended evil...

    How they *could* use them, not how they *are* using them?

    Doesn't sound like they're worse than Ofcom to me.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From danny burstein@3:633/10 to All on Thu Oct 16 17:55:27 2025
    In <10crao9$hbiu$6@dont-email.me> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> writes:

    [snip]

    The Wiki description is a good start. Now visualize how they
    can easily use those defined powers for lots of extended evil...

    How they *could* use them, not how they *are* using them?

    Doesn't sound like they're worse than Ofcom to me.

    Are you really going to give a Texian instituion a challenge?

    Make sure you've got Oprah [a] on your side...

    [a] yeah, plenty, make that PLENTY, of problems with her,
    but she deserves credit for...

    https://www.britannica.com/story/a-brief-history-of-food-libel-laws

    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    dannyb@panix.com
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

    --- PyGate Linux v1.0
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)