• Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

    From Adam H. Kerman@3:633/10 to All on Sun Oct 19 18:45:56 2025
    Portugal is really really sorry about their role in the Spanish
    Inquisition and is busily rewriting history. Really really, really and
    truly sorry.

    As we know, Ferdinand and Isabella (especially Isabella) forced Jews and
    Moors to convert or face expulsion from Spain. As a technical matter,
    their marriage led to a cooperative but still separate rule of their
    underlying kingdoms (five, if I recall) but Spain wouldn't unite into
    a single kingdom till later. I don't know the history of why Portugal
    retained its own separate kingdom.

    The Jews and Moors were expelled in 1492, and many went to Portugal. But
    just a few years later, Portugal did their own expulsion.

    I had no idea but for the last few years, if a rabbi certifies that your ancestors had lived in Portugal before the expulsion, you can get
    citizenship and a passport. Of course there was a huge scandal with one
    rabbi doing a certification mill to defraud the Portuguese government.

    There are legitimate archives searches performed by neutral archivists
    to support claims but the taint of scandal remains and certain
    politicians used the scandal to end the practice in an anti-immigration
    push. My ancestors wouldn't have been Sephardic (Spanish) so nothing to
    do with me.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Turning_Portuguese

    https://www.portugalist.com/portuguese-citizenship-for-sephardic-jews/

    For our next trick, everyone with ancestors officially tortured by the
    king's men in nearly all countries in Europe on behalf of the Church for suspicion of heresy can file a tort claim with a government. Europe
    really really really wants to pretend the Middle Ages never happened.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Sun Oct 19 18:23:28 2025
    On 2025-10-19 2:45 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Portugal is really really sorry about their role in the Spanish
    Inquisition and is busily rewriting history. Really really, really and
    truly sorry.

    As we know, Ferdinand and Isabella (especially Isabella) forced Jews and Moors to convert or face expulsion from Spain. As a technical matter,
    their marriage led to a cooperative but still separate rule of their underlying kingdoms (five, if I recall) but Spain wouldn't unite into
    a single kingdom till later. I don't know the history of why Portugal retained its own separate kingdom.

    The Jews and Moors were expelled in 1492, and many went to Portugal. But
    just a few years later, Portugal did their own expulsion.

    I've seen a few videos on the Reconquista, the 700 year (!!) effort by
    the Iberian kingdoms to drive out the Muslims but none of them has given
    an inkling of a hint of a suspicion for why Ferdinand and Isabella felt
    they also had to drive out the Jews. I remain baffled by this. Was it
    just standard anti-Semitism of was there more to it? Were Jews actually working with the Muslims to oppress the native Iberians? >
    I had no idea but for the last few years, if a rabbi certifies that your ancestors had lived in Portugal before the expulsion, you can get
    citizenship and a passport. Of course there was a huge scandal with one
    rabbi doing a certification mill to defraud the Portuguese government.

    You might be interested to hear that one video I saw recently says
    there's a school of thought that Christopher Columbus himself might have
    been Jewish. (I didn't bookmark the video otherwise I'd post the link.) >
    There are legitimate archives searches performed by neutral archivists
    to support claims but the taint of scandal remains and certain
    politicians used the scandal to end the practice in an anti-immigration
    push. My ancestors wouldn't have been Sephardic (Spanish) so nothing to
    do with me.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Turning_Portuguese

    https://www.portugalist.com/portuguese-citizenship-for-sephardic-jews/

    For our next trick, everyone with ancestors officially tortured by the
    king's men in nearly all countries in Europe on behalf of the Church for suspicion of heresy can file a tort claim with a government. Europe
    really really really wants to pretend the Middle Ages never happened.

    It's as ridiculous as the Europeans that scoured the Middle East a few
    years back trying to find anyone who might be a descendant of an Arab
    that fought in the Crusades so that they could apologize to them for
    what the (Europeans') ancestors had done to them.

    YOU CAN'T UNDO HISTORY: shit happened and there were severely
    unfortunate consequences but you can't undo what happened by apologies
    or with money. I don't particularly object to the apologies, especially
    when delivered by sincere people at their own expense, but using tax
    money so that governments can deliver official apologies is just
    expensive virtue-signalling. Using tax money to pay compensation is absurd.

    Forcing descendants of slave owners to pay compensation to descendants
    of slaves is ridiculous. The descendants of slave owners - and lets face
    it, the money would essentially come from everyone (including the
    descendants of slaves themselves), even if their ancestors had nothing
    to do with slavery - did nothing wrong and the recipients of the money
    did nothing to deserve it. It's probably reasonable to compensate any
    living slaves but I don't see any reason to compensate their defendants.

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@3:633/10 to All on Sun Oct 19 22:44:39 2025
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
    On 2025-10-19 2:45 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    Portugal is really really sorry about their role in the Spanish
    Inquisition and is busily rewriting history. Really really, really and >>truly sorry.

    As we know, Ferdinand and Isabella (especially Isabella) forced Jews and >>Moors to convert or face expulsion from Spain. As a technical matter,
    their marriage led to a cooperative but still separate rule of their >>underlying kingdoms (five, if I recall) but Spain wouldn't unite into
    a single kingdom till later. I don't know the history of why Portugal >>retained its own separate kingdom.

    The Jews and Moors were expelled in 1492, and many went to Portugal. But >>just a few years later, Portugal did their own expulsion.

    I've seen a few videos on the Reconquista, the 700 year (!!) effort by
    the Iberian kingdoms to drive out the Muslims but none of them has given
    an inkling of a hint of a suspicion for why Ferdinand and Isabella felt
    they also had to drive out the Jews. I remain baffled by this. Was it
    just standard anti-Semitism of was there more to it?

    Jews are Christ killers. The Church said so.

    Were Jews actually working with the Muslims to oppress the native Iberians?

    I had no idea but for the last few years, if a rabbi certifies that your >>ancestors had lived in Portugal before the expulsion, you can get >>citizenship and a passport. Of course there was a huge scandal with one >>rabbi doing a certification mill to defraud the Portuguese government.

    You might be interested to hear that one video I saw recently says
    there's a school of thought that Christopher Columbus himself might have >been Jewish. (I didn't bookmark the video otherwise I'd post the link.)

    Plenty of his crew certainly were.

    . . .

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)