• Idaho statute prohibits police from relying upon open fields doctrine w

    From Adam H. Kerman@3:633/10 to All on Sun Apr 12 16:08:38 2026
    Subject: Idaho statute prohibits police from relying upon open fields doctrine when conducting warrantless searches

    Huge victory for the privacy of land owners from police conducting
    warrantless searches in Idaho.

    In Hester v. United States (1924), the Supreme Court ruled that Fourth Amendment protection to the people "is not extended to the open fields."
    This was decided to make it easier to enforce prohibition laws when
    looking for stills, but then police began making warrantless searches
    for nyriad other reasons.

    With new legislation just signed into law, police can no longer rely
    upon the open fields doctrine when conducting warrantless searches. In
    order for evidence to be admissable, they'll have to show probable cause
    to obtain a warrant.

    This will not apply to searches conducted by the United States
    government.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngB6RJ2GFnQ

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From anim8rfsk@3:633/10 to All on Sun Apr 12 09:50:32 2026
    Subject: Re: Idaho statute prohibits police from relying upon open fields doctrine when conducting warrantless searches

    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    Huge victory for the privacy of land owners from police conducting warrantless searches in Idaho.

    In Hester v. United States (1924), the Supreme Court ruled that Fourth Amendment protection to the people "is not extended to the open fields."
    This was decided to make it easier to enforce prohibition laws when
    looking for stills, but then police began making warrantless searches
    for nyriad other reasons.

    With new legislation just signed into law, police can no longer rely
    upon the open fields doctrine when conducting warrantless searches. In
    order for evidence to be admissable, they'll have to show probable cause
    to obtain a warrant.

    This will not apply to searches conducted by the United States
    government.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngB6RJ2GFnQ


    If I were still drawing cartoons, I?d copy one of the television detector
    truck in England going down an Idaho Street saying ?potato? ?potato?
    ?potahto? ?potato?

    --
    The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BTR1701@3:633/10 to All on Sun Apr 12 19:18:05 2026
    Subject: Re: Idaho statute prohibits police from relying upon open fields doctrine when conducting warrantless searches

    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
    Huge victory for the privacy of land owners from police conducting warrantless searches in Idaho.

    In Hester v. United States (1924), the Supreme Court ruled that Fourth Amendment protection to the people "is not extended to the open fields."
    This was decided to make it easier to enforce prohibition laws

    Yes, this is one of those situations (like asset forfeiture and the Constitution-free zone at the border) where the Court just said, "Yeah,
    that 4th Amendment is nice and all but in this case it's a tremendous pain
    in the government's ass, the so the government just doesn't have to abide
    by it anymore." No pretense at 'interpretation'. Just flat-out making shit
    up out of thin air and nullifying a guaranteed constitutional right.

    when looking for stills, but then police began making warrantless searches for nyriad other reasons.

    With new legislation just signed into law, police can no longer rely
    upon the open fields doctrine when conducting warrantless searches. In
    order for evidence to be admissable, they'll have to show probable cause
    to obtain a warrant.

    This will not apply to searches conducted by the United States
    government.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngB6RJ2GFnQ

    I've always wondered what the extent of the Open Fields Doctrine was.

    We know the cops can enter when you're not there and the 4th Amendment
    doesn't apply. But if you come across them actively trespassing and tell
    them directly, "This is my property. You don't have my permission to be
    here. Please leave," can they legally ignore you? Does the doctrine not
    only give them a pass from the 4th Amendment warrant requirement but also invalidate *all* your rights to control access to your own property under
    state and local laws also?

    And when wildlife officials trespass onto your land and do things like
    attach surveillance cameras to trees, are you required to leave them in
    place when you find them? Does Open Fields require you to allow continuous government surveillance of your own land? If you can't remove the cameras,
    can you hang a tarp or stand up a piece of plywood in front of them so they can't see anything? Does the doctrine not only require you to tolerate your
    own surveillance government by the government but take active measures to enable its success?

    These are questions no one ever seems to address when it comes to the Open Fields Doctrine. But good on Idaho for recognizing what a legal abomination
    it is and taking steps to neuter it as much as they can.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@3:633/10 to All on Sun Apr 12 21:31:28 2026
    Subject: Re: Idaho statute prohibits police from relying upon open fields doctrine when conducting warrantless searches

    BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    Huge victory for the privacy of land owners from police conducting >>warrantless searches in Idaho.

    In Hester v. United States (1924), the Supreme Court ruled that Fourth >>Amendment protection to the people "is not extended to the open fields." >>This was decided to make it easier to enforce prohibition laws

    Yes, this is one of those situations (like asset forfeiture and the >Constitution-free zone at the border) where the Court just said, "Yeah,
    that 4th Amendment is nice and all but in this case it's a tremendous pain
    in the government's ass, the so the government just doesn't have to abide
    by it anymore." No pretense at 'interpretation'. Just flat-out making shit
    up out of thin air and nullifying a guaranteed constitutional right.

    Hester was one of those very short opinions written by Holmes, who never thought about consequences. Between this and Schenck v. US -- do not
    question what the President says is necessary for national security and
    shread freedom of the press -- why does he have such a good reputation?

    when looking for stills, but then police began making warrantless searches >>for nyriad other reasons.

    With new legislation just signed into law, police can no longer rely
    upon the open fields doctrine when conducting warrantless searches. In >>order for evidence to be admissable, they'll have to show probable cause
    to obtain a warrant.

    This will not apply to searches conducted by the United States
    government.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngB6RJ2GFnQ

    I've always wondered what the extent of the Open Fields Doctrine was.

    What's minimum acreage for a field? The garden behind a garden apartment
    or a small back yard? Minimum 10 acres? Everything beyond curtillage?

    We know the cops can enter when you're not there and the 4th Amendment >doesn't apply. But if you come across them actively trespassing and tell
    them directly, "This is my property. You don't have my permission to be
    here. Please leave," can they legally ignore you? Does the doctrine not
    only give them a pass from the 4th Amendment warrant requirement but also >invalidate *all* your rights to control access to your own property under >state and local laws also?

    According to videos from lawyers on YouTube, game wardens may ignore
    trespass warnings or will simply come back when they think the land
    owner won't catch them. Somehow they can make warrantless searches to
    enforce fish and game laws.

    And when wildlife officials trespass onto your land and do things like
    attach surveillance cameras to trees, are you required to leave them in
    place when you find them?

    There have been theft charges filed for removing game cameras. I don't
    know if anyone has ever been convicted after a trial.

    Does Open Fields require you to allow continuous
    government surveillance of your own land? If you can't remove the cameras, >can you hang a tarp or stand up a piece of plywood in front of them so they >can't see anything? Does the doctrine not only require you to tolerate your >own surveillance government by the government but take active measures to >enable its success?

    These are questions no one ever seems to address when it comes to the Open >Fields Doctrine. But good on Idaho for recognizing what a legal abomination >it is and taking steps to neuter it as much as they can.

    So nice that after more than a century, somebody acted. Would be nice if Congress and the other 49 legislatures passed similar privacy laws.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.13
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)