• When everything is digital.. this happens..

    From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to All on Fri Feb 24 19:14:00 2023
    Another interesting video/vinyl/cassettes (Canadian) survivor
    story..

    "When everything is digital, why we long for media we can hold
    in our hands"

    "People are rediscovering the value of DVDs, records after
    years of digitizing everything.

    by Natalie Stechyson CBC News Posted: Feb 23, 2023 4:00 AM

    "It's a feeling increasingly shared by consumers and collectors
    across Canada. After years of digitizing everything, people are
    rediscovering the value of physical assets. DVDs, vinyl records
    and film cameras are all experiencing a renaissance. Even
    cassette tapes are making a comeback.

    "Last year, for the second year in a row, vinyl albums outsold
    CD albums in the in the U.S., Billboard reported in January
    (and the manufacturers are struggling to keep pace with the
    growth). In terms of photography, Kodak said in 2022 that it
    "can't keep up" with the demand for film.

    "a lot of younger female customers buying records. Now, it's
    common to have 15-year olds coming in to buy everything from
    old re-issues to new releases"

    [FULL article: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/physical-media- dvd-vinyl-1.6755293 ]

    OR.. https://bbs.lc/mzDHd

    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Ogg on Sat Feb 25 10:04:00 2023
    Ogg wrote to All <=-

    "It's a feeling increasingly shared by consumers and collectors
    across Canada. After years of digitizing everything, people are rediscovering the value of physical assets. DVDs, vinyl records
    and film cameras are all experiencing a renaissance. Even
    cassette tapes are making a comeback.

    I miss album art and liner notes. CD jewel cases don't have the same
    impact.

    There's two issues here, IMO - one is the physical, tangible good that
    an album, DVD or cassette provides - see my previous note regarding
    liner notes. I noticed that 8-track tapes weren't included.

    The other is digital rights management - the shift from purchasing music
    to "obtaining a license". Before we just had to worry about not being
    able to make archival copies, backup copies, or copies intended for
    playback on a media not supported by the work of art - all things
    guaranteed by the copyright act of 1974.

    Now, publishers want to be able to rescind rights to previously-licensed
    media - Amazon has already done that on the Kindle store.

    When your media company goes out of business, good luck having your
    restricted media still be available, or play.

    Buy non-restricted digital media, burn it yourself to CD/DVD, and you
    get a little of both worlds.

    I still miss album art, though.




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  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Feb 25 11:45:16 2023
    When your media company goes out of business, good luck having your restricted media still be available, or play.

    I have a similar frustration with Apple here. I've purchased a ton over the years through the iTunes store and I'm fearful things will just continue to migrate to streaming services and the concept of purchasing and owning music or movies will basically die.

    I've noticed a steep decline in what the iTunes store offers as far as movies are concerned. In years past it seemed like anything you would search for could be found on iTunes, nowadays my searches keep turning up empty.

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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Feb 25 15:06:36 2023
    Re: Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Ogg on Sat Feb 25 2023 10:04 am

    The other is digital rights management - the shift from purchasing music to "obtaining a license". Before we just had to worry about not being
    able to make archival copies, backup copies, or copies intended for playback on a media not supported by the work of art - all things guaranteed by the copyright act of 1974.

    Now, publishers want to be able to rescind rights to previously-licensed media - Amazon has already done that on the Kindle store.

    When your media company goes out of business, good luck having your restricted media still be available, or play.

    That's one of the main reasons I still like to buy physical copies of media. I tend to rip it for easier playback on multiple devices these days, but I like having a physical copy that won't suddenly disappear.

    I've ripped all my music CDs to FLAC and MP3 - I've copied the MP3s to my various devices, and I keep both the MP3s and the FLACs on an external USB hard drive as a backup. I also have a Plex Media Server (which is one of the things I've copied my MP3s onto), and lately I've been ripping more of my movies from blu-ray (and DVD) to put on my Plex server. So I feel like I have the best of both worlds, owning a physical copy and being able to easily stream them from my own media server.

    Nightfox
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Ogg on Sat Feb 25 15:12:32 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Ogg to All on Fri Feb 24 2023 07:14 pm

    "When everything is digital, why we long for media we can hold
    in our hands"

    "People are rediscovering the value of DVDs, records after
    years of digitizing everything.

    I've often thought "digital" was a poor term for streamed media, since physical formats such as CD, DVD, etc. are digital media.. The first time I saw a DVD movie in the store that said "digital copy included", I thought, of course it includes a digital copy, DVD is a digital medium.. I didn't yet know "digital" was referring to an online streaming version.
    And by extension, "digitizing" doesn't really make much sense in the context above, as CDs, DVDs, etc. are already digital.

    But anyway, rant aside, I've never bought any movies only from an online streaming service. I've heard a couple stories where someone bought a movie from an online streaming service, and that movie later was removed, so they weren't able to access & watch it anymore. If I buy something, I expect to have it around at any time.

    Aside from that, there can be other issues with streaming services, such as bufering, and the occasional outage from the service and/or your internet provider.

    I'm not entirely surprised to hear people are rediscovering the value of owning physical media.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to Poindexter Fortran on Sat Feb 25 15:14:35 2023
    BY: poindexter FORTRAN (21:4/122)

    |11pF|09> |10When your media company goes out of business, good luck having your|07
    |11pF|09> |10restricted media still be available, or play.|07
    I want a rule where companies cant take back access earlier than 5 years else the customer gets the media purchase price for free. People get at least a 5 year lease on the content.

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  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to Esc on Sat Feb 25 15:15:54 2023
    BY: esc (21:4/173)

    |11e|09> |10I have a similar frustration with Apple here. I've purchased a ton over|07
    |11e|09> |10the years through the iTunes store and I'm fearful things will just|07
    |11e|09> |10continue to migrate to streaming services and the concept of purchasing|07
    |11e|09> |10and owning music or movies will basically die.|07
    I am starting to buy blu rays even from other regions in the world since licencing rules for streaming is a pisser. The BBC/ITV owns a streaming service to air stuff outside the UK, but some of their shows are not on their service. So I have to buy the blu rays if i can find them.


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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Matthew Munson on Sat Feb 25 20:57:19 2023
    Re: Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Matthew Munson to Poindexter Fortran on Sat Feb 25 2023 03:14 pm

    I want a rule where companies cant take back access earlier than 5 years else the customer gets the media purchase price for free. People get at least a 5 year lease on the content.

    I think the implication is still that you've bought the movie, rather than leasing it. They should at least be honest about what you're paying for (a purchase, or a lease).

    Nightfox
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Matthew Munson on Sat Feb 25 20:58:27 2023
    Re: Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Matthew Munson to Esc on Sat Feb 25 2023 03:15 pm

    I am starting to buy blu rays even from other regions in the world since licencing rules for streaming is a pisser. The BBC/ITV owns a streaming service to air stuff outside the UK, but some of their shows are not on their service. So I have to buy the blu rays if i can find them.

    There are a few titles that haven't been released in the US at all. I've bought a couple blu-rays from the UK that were released there but not here.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Matthew Munson on Sun Feb 26 11:06:00 2023
    Hello Matthew Munson!

    I want a rule where companies cant take back access earlier than
    5 years else the customer gets the media purchase price for free. People get at least a 5 year lease on the content.

    Streaming is "home theatre". So, just as you would not "own" a
    movie for the price of admission at a commercial theatre, you
    only get to lease the film at home.

    Streaming for "lease" is much more powerful for companies.
    There is no way they would want to diminish it by enacting any
    limitations.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Nightfox on Sun Feb 26 11:07:00 2023
    Hello Nightfox!

    There are a few titles that haven't been released in the US at all. I've bought a couple blu-rays from the UK that were released there but not
    here.

    I enountered similar. Banacek on DVD was never released
    outside region 1, and only available for region 2, yet it was
    an American TV series.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)
  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to Ogg on Sun Feb 26 09:15:24 2023
    BY: Ogg (21:4/106.21)

    |11O|09> |10Streaming for "lease" is much more powerful for companies. |07 |11O|09> |10There is no way they would want to diminish it by enacting any |07 |11O|09> |10limitations.|07
    People should have a mininum time they get their content. It would suck if you paid 29.99 for a video game download and then they pull it from the store where you cant get a new copy if your machine went down.


    --- WWIV 5.8.0.3681[Windows]
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Ogg on Sun Feb 26 11:10:34 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Ogg to Matthew Munson on Sun Feb 26 2023 11:06 am

    Streaming is "home theatre". So, just as you would not "own" a
    movie for the price of admission at a commercial theatre, you
    only get to lease the film at home.

    Most streaming services include a "streaming" price and a "purchase" price, with the purchase price being comparable to a DVD purchase. When the purchase disappears, I'd get the FTC involved for unfair trade practices (in the US)
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Nightfox on Sun Feb 26 13:58:19 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Nightfox to Ogg on Sat Feb 25 2023 03:12 pm


    But anyway, rant aside, I've never bought any movies only from an online str

    Wait until you find out you can buy game online and have its music licenses revoked years after.

    See, some game companies buy the rights for the music they incorporate to their game for a limited span of time. When the license expires, the game can no longer use that music. IN the case of games that need a permanent connection to work, they tipically replace your music automatically without asking.

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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Arelor on Sun Feb 26 12:32:49 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Sun Feb 26 2023 01:58 pm

    Wait until you find out you can buy game online and have its music licenses revoked years after.

    See, some game companies buy the rights for the music they incorporate to their game for a limited span of time. When the license expires, the game can no longer use that music. IN the case of games that need a permanent connection to work, they tipically replace your music automatically without asking.

    I think I've heard about that. That's a bit crazy.. I mainly play PC games, and I haven't noticed that happen with any of the PC games I've played (and I do buy downloadable games on Steam sometimes).
    The most recent console I have is a Nintndo Wii.

    Nightfox
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  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Nightfox on Sun Feb 26 15:57:00 2023
    Hello Nightfox!

    ** On Saturday 25.02.23 - 15:12, Nightfox wrote to Ogg:

    I've often thought "digital" was a poor term for streamed
    media, since physical formats such as CD, DVD, etc. are
    digital media.. The first time I saw a DVD movie in the
    store that said "digital copy included",..

    I've always seen that clarified by "DOWNLOADABLE digital".


    But anyway, rant aside, I've never bought any movies only
    from an online streaming service. I've heard a couple
    stories where someone bought a movie from an online
    streaming service, and that movie later was removed, so
    they weren't able to access & watch it anymore. If I buy
    something, I expect to have it around at any time.

    I've "rented" a viewing of a handful of films or documentaries,
    but then I recorded a copy for later viewing suitable to MY
    schedule at the same time! <g>


    Aside from that, there can be other issues with streaming
    services, such as bufering, and the occasional outage from
    the service and/or your internet provider.

    I've heard that happen too often at people's homes.


    I'm not entirely surprised to hear people are rediscovering
    the value of owning physical media.

    The physical copy is ideal for campers, cottagers, RVers (and
    even my rural self where I don't need nor want internet 24/7),
    ..where access to a fast internet is simply not possible. I
    qualified to be part of the first rollout of Musk's Starlink,
    but even the "introductory" price was pretty high.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)
  • From Ogg@21:3/110.10 to esc on Sun Feb 26 16:35:00 2023
    Hello esc!

    ** On Saturday 25.02.23 - 11:45, esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN:

    When your media company goes out of business, good luck
    having your restricted media still be available, or play.

    I have a similar frustration with Apple here. I've
    purchased a ton over the years through the iTunes store and
    I'm fearful things will just continue to migrate to
    streaming services and the concept of purchasing and owning
    music or movies will basically die.

    I took the liberty to convert most of my precious purchases to
    mp3.

    However, if you have downloaded copies of your purchases, they
    should still play fine irregardless what iTunes does; you don't
    need to be signed online to play local downloads.


    I've noticed a steep decline in what the iTunes store
    offers as far as movies are concerned. In years past it
    seemed like anything you would search for could be found on
    iTunes, nowadays my searches keep turning up empty.

    I never used their movie service, so I wouldn't know. Maybe
    they are phasing out the movies ever so gradually. Do the movie
    downloads work the same as the music and you get to "keep" and
    play the movie any time you want without being connected online
    and NOT require logging in to watch?



    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: fsxnet/2 (21:3/110.10)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Ogg on Sun Feb 26 13:54:10 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Ogg to Nightfox on Sun Feb 26 2023 03:57 pm

    I've often thought "digital" was a poor term for streamed
    media, since physical formats such as CD, DVD, etc. are
    digital media.. The first time I saw a DVD movie in the
    store that said "digital copy included",..

    I've always seen that clarified by "DOWNLOADABLE digital".

    Interesting.. I've never seen that.

    I've "rented" a viewing of a handful of films or documentaries,
    but then I recorded a copy for later viewing suitable to MY
    schedule at the same time! <g>

    :) I think it's interesting what the laws technically allow. It's probably different in other countries, but in the US, I'm pretty sure it's technically legal and okay to record broadcast media from TV (which is why DVRs are legal to buy and sell) - Even though I'm sure all the content broadcast on TV is copyrighted, people are allowed to DVR it. Years ago, there was a court ruling saying that the use of VCRs for non-commercial recording was legal, which I suppose is what set that in motion.

    The physical copy is ideal for campers, cottagers, RVers (and
    even my rural self where I don't need nor want internet 24/7),
    ..where access to a fast internet is simply not possible. I
    qualified to be part of the first rollout of Musk's Starlink,
    but even the "introductory" price was pretty high.

    Even with access to a fast reliable internet connection at home, I still like owning a copy of my media that I can play any time. I've had a couple instances where streaming media would start to buffer, or it (mainly Netflix) would tell me their service is too busy and telling me to try again later, etc.. And I also wouldn't want to buy a movie on a streaming service, only for them to revoke or remove it later.

    I'll just put my stuff on my own media server at home. :)

    Nightfox
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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Sun Feb 26 08:06:00 2023
    Nightfox wrote to Matthew Munson <=-

    There are a few titles that haven't been released in the US at all.
    I've bought a couple blu-rays from the UK that were released there but
    not here.

    I haven't bought a Blu-Ray player. Do they still do that region locking
    that DVD players do?



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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Feb 26 15:09:15 2023
    Re: Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sun Feb 26 2023 08:06 am

    There are a few titles that haven't been released in the US at all.
    I've bought a couple blu-rays from the UK that were released there
    but not here.

    I haven't bought a Blu-Ray player. Do they still do that region locking that DVD players do?

    No blu-ray player? O_o
    Yes, blu-ray players still have region locking, but there are fewer regions than with DVD. There are only 3 regions:

    Region A: North America, South America, U.S. Territories, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and other areas of Southeast Asia

    Region B: Europe, Africa, Middle East, Australia, and New Zealand.

    Region C: Asia (except for Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and other areas of Southeast Asia)


    But for 4K blu-ray discs, I've heard 4K blu-ray discs/players only have one region and thus will play anywhere.

    Nightfox
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  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Matthew Munson on Sun Feb 26 17:07:00 2023
    Hello Matthew Munson!

    People should have a mininum time they get their content.
    It would suck if you paid 29.99 for a video game download
    and then they pull it from the store where you cant get a
    new copy if your machine went down.

    Well.. for another one-time $29.99 you can get a program that
    will "save" a copy for you. ;)

    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Feb 26 17:10:00 2023
    Hello poindexter FORTRAN!

    Most streaming services include a "streaming" price and a "purchase" price, with the purchase price being comparable to a DVD purchase.

    Ah.. yes, based on that definition, it should be an ownership
    and freedom to watch at any time (including into perpetuity).
    But I would bet that their definition of "purchase" is
    different in the small print that no one reads. :/


    When the purchase disappears, I'd get the FTC involved for
    unfair trade practices

    I would bet that no one cares, yet.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Nightfox on Mon Feb 27 09:32:43 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Nightfox to Arelor on Sun Feb 26 2023 12:32 pm

    I think I've heard about that. That's a bit crazy.. I mainly play PC games The most recent console I have is a Nintndo Wii.


    I think the most well known case was GTA IV's. It probably was because they use a lot of non-original music. They got licenses on a lease for lots of popular songs from mainstreamish music houses. If you were playing GTA and got on a car, you could tun the car's radio and listen to this real world music. Until they removed it, that's it.


    I guess that is unlikely to happen with original audio tracks developed for the game, specifically.


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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Ogg on Mon Feb 27 09:45:18 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Ogg to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Feb 26 2023 05:10 pm


    When the purchase disappears, I'd get the FTC involved for
    unfair trade practices

    I would bet that no one cares, yet.


    I bet the people who cares, does care so much as not to buy their media from sellers that may make it magically disappear.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Arelor on Mon Feb 27 07:46:56 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Mon Feb 27 2023 09:32 am

    I think the most well known case was GTA IV's. It probably was because they use a lot of non-original music. They got licenses on a lease for lots of popular songs from mainstreamish music houses. If you were playing GTA and got on a car, you could tun the car's radio and listen to this real world music. Until they removed it, that's it.

    That would be a shame if they removed the music. I have the GTA game (vice city?) that someone gave me. I'd load it up occasionally and enjoy the 80s music playing in the cars.

    It gave it a real Miami Vice feeling. In the cheesiest, best way possible.
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
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  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Arelor on Mon Feb 27 13:29:00 2023
    Hello Arelor!

    When the purchase disappears, I'd get the FTC involved for
    unfair trade practices

    I would bet that no one cares, yet.


    I bet the people who cares, does care so much as not to buy their media from sellers that may make it magically disappear.

    But that is a small dent in the machine. The streaming
    companies have no lack of subscribers.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Nightfox on Mon Feb 27 14:38:00 2023
    Hello Nightfox!

    ** On Sunday 26.02.23 - 13:54, Nightfox wrote to Ogg:

    broadcast on TV is copyrighted, people are allowed to DVR
    it. Years ago, there was a court ruling saying that the
    use of VCRs for non-commercial recording was legal, which I
    suppose is what set that in motion.

    Here in Canada, a "tax" was imposed on blank recordable DVDs
    and CDs to accommodate that scenario.


    Even with access to a fast reliable internet connection at
    home, I still like owning a copy of my media that I can
    play any time. I've had a couple instances where streaming
    media would start to buffer, or it (mainly Netflix) would
    tell me their service is too busy and telling me to try
    again later, etc.. And I also wouldn't want to buy a movie
    on a streaming service, only for them to revoke or remove
    it later.

    A dilema for Audible users.. once they cancel the service, all
    their "purchases" disappear.

    But libro.fm is different:

    [1] All content is DRM-less.
    [2] You can pause a monthly subscription and resume later.
    [3] Your purchases are yours after download, even after
    cancellation.

    See https://libro.fm/ashlies ;)


    --


    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Ogg on Mon Feb 27 12:35:47 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Ogg to Nightfox on Mon Feb 27 2023 02:38 pm

    broadcast on TV is copyrighted, people are allowed to DVR
    it. Years ago, there was a court ruling saying that the
    use of VCRs for non-commercial recording was legal, which I
    suppose is what set that in motion.

    Here in Canada, a "tax" was imposed on blank recordable DVDs
    and CDs to accommodate that scenario.

    How do they know you're going to use recordable DVDs and CDs for that though? All the really popular DVR boxes I've seen don't even use optical media. Even back when DVD-Rs were popular, DVRs such as the Tivo recorded to a hard drive. And as far as CDs, you wouldn't record video to a CD, and I've never seen anything that would record an audio broadcast to CD-R.

    A dilema for Audible users.. once they cancel the service, all
    their "purchases" disappear.

    That's stupid.. So you still have to subscribe in order to watch content that you've already purchased and 'own'.

    But libro.fm is different:

    [1] All content is DRM-less.
    [2] You can pause a monthly subscription and resume later.
    [3] Your purchases are yours after download, even after
    cancellation.

    See https://libro.fm/ashlies ;)

    That's good. :)

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Ogg on Tue Feb 28 16:56:12 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Ogg to esc on Sun Feb 26 2023 04:35 pm

    I took the liberty to convert most of my precious purchases to
    mp3.

    However, if you have downloaded copies of your purchases, they
    should still play fine irregardless what iTunes does; you don't
    need to be signed online to play local downloads.

    I've purchased a couple music albums that were download-only in FLAC format, and they didn't have DRM. I feel comfortable with a DRM-free media purchase, since I can store it on a backup drive and do what I want with it, and don't need a specific player to play it.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Nightfox on Tue Feb 28 22:35:00 2023
    Hello Nightfox!

    ** On Monday 27.02.23 - 12:35, Nightfox wrote to Ogg:

    Here in Canada, a "tax" was imposed on blank recordable DVDs
    and CDs to accommodate that scenario.

    How do they know you're going to use recordable DVDs and
    CDs for that though?

    They don't. You could take the discs and use them as coasters
    for all they care! <g> I think the proper term for the tax
    scheme is "tariff". The tariff is designed for the purposes
    of compensating the recording industry and/or the artists for
    the likelyhood and intention that you may or may not have to
    copy their material.


    All the really popular DVR boxes I've seen don't even use
    optical media. Even back when DVD-Rs were popular, DVRs
    such as the Tivo recorded to a hard drive. And as far as
    CDs, you wouldn't record video to a CD, and I've never seen
    anything that would record an audio broadcast to CD-R.

    My first (and only) DVR records programming to an internal HDD
    and features the option to create DVDs from that material.

    I have a few CDs with playable (albiet outdated) video format,
    but they only play on a dedicated older CD/DVD player that I
    have capable of that. A more recent DVD player is unable to
    play those older video formats.


    A dilema for Audible users.. once they cancel the service, all
    their "purchases" disappear.

    That's stupid.. So you still have to subscribe in order to
    watch content that you've already purchased and 'own'.

    Yup. And with Audible, there is no "suspension" of service -
    it's a continuous fixed monthly fee whether you intend to
    purchase anymore audio books or not. Their audio files only
    play on their apps.


    See https://libro.fm/ashlies ;)

    That's good. :)

    Damn right! <g>


    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Ogg on Tue Feb 28 06:44:00 2023
    Ogg wrote to Nightfox <=-

    broadcast on TV is copyrighted, people are allowed to DVR
    it. Years ago, there was a court ruling saying that the
    use of VCRs for non-commercial recording was legal, which I
    suppose is what set that in motion.

    Here in Canada, a "tax" was imposed on blank recordable DVDs
    and CDs to accommodate that scenario.

    Here, too. The recording industry lobbied for a levy on any blank
    recordable CD, because, as you know, recordable CDs caused the great
    media crash of 1990 - you remember medic companies all filing for
    bankrupcy, the images of locked office buildings, the media executives
    jumping out of buildings, thousands of artists and media executives
    unable to work or feed their families...

    Oh, wait, that didn't happen - and I had to pay a levy to crappy record
    labels to make CD backups.




    ... Apotheosis was the beginning before the beginning.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Ogg on Wed Mar 1 06:01:00 2023
    Ogg wrote to Nightfox <=-

    A dilema for Audible users.. once they cancel the service, all
    their "purchases" disappear.

    That's stupid.. So you still have to subscribe in order to
    watch content that you've already purchased and 'own'.

    Yup. And with Audible, there is no "suspension" of service -
    it's a continuous fixed monthly fee whether you intend to
    purchase anymore audio books or not. Their audio files only
    play on their apps.


    With Audible, you can cancel your subscription and still listen to
    purchased content. You can also buy content for a price, if I'm not
    mistaken. The subscription allows you points each month to apply against
    a purchase, exclusives and I think discounted narration on Kindle books
    you already own.



    ... FOR SYSOP USE ONLY - Do not write below this line.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Ogg on Wed Mar 1 13:58:36 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Ogg to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Feb 26 2023 05:10 pm

    Most streaming services include a "streaming" price and a "purchase"
    price, with the purchase price being comparable to a DVD purchase.

    When the purchase disappears, I'd get the FTC involved for
    unfair trade practices

    I would bet that no one cares, yet.

    I think that's the problem.. Companies are doing this kind of thing that can screw over customers, but not enough people care.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Arelor on Wed Mar 1 13:59:37 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Arelor to Ogg on Mon Feb 27 2023 09:45 am

    When the purchase disappears, I'd get the FTC involved for
    unfair trade practices

    I would bet that no one cares, yet.

    I bet the people who cares, does care so much as not to buy their media from sellers that may make it magically disappear.

    Unfortunately, I think the people who care enough to not buy from them are few in number. These companies are still making lots of money from people buying from them and subscribing to their services.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Ogg@21:3/110.10 to Nightfox on Thu Mar 2 19:39:00 2023
    Hello Nightfox!

    ** On Tuesday 28.02.23 - 16:56, Nightfox wrote to Ogg:

    I've purchased a couple music albums that were download-
    only in FLAC format, and they didn't have DRM. I feel
    comfortable with a DRM-free media purchase, since I can
    store it on a backup drive and do what I want with it, and
    don't need a specific player to play it.

    FLAC is wonderful. I don't think it can be DRMed.

    I experimented in producing CDs with FLAC originals after
    converting the files to Apple's version, ALAC. The burned CD
    and the original master were indistiguishable, to me.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: fsxnet/2 (21:3/110.10)
  • From Ogg@21:3/110.10 to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Mar 2 20:08:00 2023
    With Audible, you can cancel your subscription and still
    listen to purchased content.

    News to me. So, the app doesn't call the mothership to
    authorize play?


    You can also buy content for a price, if I'm not mistaken.

    I think the term is a la carte. Libro.fm has that too.


    The subscription allows you points each month to apply
    against a purchase, exclusives and I think discounted
    narration on Kindle books you already own.

    Sounds like the same points model with Libro.fm.

    But it I recall, if you cancel Audible, you loose your points.

    Conversely with Libro.fm, if you suspend your service (to avoid
    getting auto-billed on the membership) you still retain those
    points when you resume the membership.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: fsxnet/2 (21:3/110.10)
  • From Ogg@21:3/110.10 to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Mar 2 20:09:00 2023
    Hello pF!

    Here, too. The recording industry lobbied for a levy on
    any blank recordable CD, because, as you know, recordable
    CDs caused the great media crash of 1990 - you remember
    medic companies all filing for bankrupcy, the images of
    locked office buildings, the media executives jumping out
    of buildings, thousands of artists and media executives
    unable to work or feed their families...

    The industry sure made a big outcry of lost monies when mp3
    emerged. But their industry was NOT overly affected at all.
    Plenty of profits were still being made.


    Oh, wait, that didn't happen - and I had to pay a levy to
    crappy record labels to make CD backups.

    I'm sure it was just an "opportunity" for the industry to get a
    piece of the home-recording action.

    --

    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: fsxnet/2 (21:3/110.10)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Ogg on Fri Mar 3 05:57:00 2023
    Ogg wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    With Audible, you can cancel your subscription and still
    listen to purchased content.

    News to me. So, the app doesn't call the mothership to
    authorize play?

    It probably does. You still need an account to play the media, but no subscription needed to access previously purchased content. I get
    a subscription when they offer a promotion, then cancel shortly
    afterwards and still can access content.

    You can also buy content for a price, if I'm not mistaken.

    I think the term is a la carte. Libro.fm has that too.

    But it I recall, if you cancel Audible, you loose your points.

    Conversely with Libro.fm, if you suspend your service (to avoid
    getting auto-billed on the membership) you still retain those
    points when you resume the membership.

    That's handy.




    ... Curious ideas wait for stranger times
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Ogg on Fri Mar 3 09:44:44 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Ogg to Nightfox on Thu Mar 02 2023 07:39 pm

    FLAC is wonderful. I don't think it can be DRMed.

    I experimented in producing CDs with FLAC originals after
    converting the files to Apple's version, ALAC. The burned CD
    and the original master were indistiguishable, to me.

    That sounds right, as FLAC uses lossless compression.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Ogg on Fri Mar 3 09:47:45 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Ogg to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Mar 02 2023 08:09 pm

    The industry sure made a big outcry of lost monies when mp3
    emerged. But their industry was NOT overly affected at all.
    Plenty of profits were still being made.

    People often talk about the iPod as revolutionizing portable music, but even before the iPod was released, I remember seeing at least one MP3 player on the market, the Diamond Rio. It was sold in regular retail stores like Best Buy etc.. I remember seeing them at my local Best Buy (actually it may have been Future Shop at the time, before they closed and were replaced by Best Buy).

    I remember reading somewhere that the music industry wanted to halt sales of the Diamond Rio because of worry about ease of listening to downloaded music that wasn't paid for.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Oldbieone@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Fri Mar 3 13:05:49 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Nightfox to Ogg on Fri Mar 03 2023 09:47 am

    People often talk about the iPod as revolutionizing portable music, but even before the iPod was released, I remember seeing at least one MP3 player on t market, the Diamond Rio. It was sold in regular retail stores like Best Buy

    I had one of these, I think it was a PMP300 if I'm remembering correctly. Abysmally small storage capacity.....

    I remember reading somewhere that the music industry wanted to halt sales of the Diamond Rio because of worry about ease of listening to downloaded music that wasn't paid for.

    The RIAA filed a suit against Diamond, IIRC. Not sure it went anywhere though, but I do recall that the reason floated around in magazines at the time for the low on-board storage capacity was an attempt to "play nice" with the recording industry, even though you could insert an SD for additional storage.

    As it came out of the box, I think you could get maybe 10 tracks on it. I remember having to expand the storage to get it usable as an everyday gizmo. It wasn't long before it replaced the tapes in my car though.
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Matthew Munson@21:4/108 to Oldbieone on Fri Mar 3 22:09:45 2023
    BY: Oldbieone (21:4/122)

    |11O|09> |10As it came out of the box, I think you could get maybe 10 tracks on it.|07
    |11O|09> |10I remember having to expand the storage to get it usable as an everyday|07
    |11O|09> |10gizmo. It wasn't long before it replaced the tapes in my car though.|07
    I bought a NetMD by Sony, it was better than the Diamond Rio. Best Buy tried to promote Windows XP by saying you can buy a Diamond Rio for like 49.99, but they all never came in the store at the time I ordered Windows XP upgrade for my PC back in 2001.


    --- WWIV 5.8.0.3681[Windows]
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Oldbieone@21:4/122 to Matthew Munson on Fri Mar 3 22:43:22 2023
    Re: Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Matthew Munson to Oldbieone on Fri Mar 03 2023 10:09 pm

    I bought a NetMD by Sony, it was better than the Diamond Rio. Best Buy
    tried to promote Windows XP by saying you can buy a Diamond Rio for like 49.99, but they all never came in the store at the time I ordered Windows
    XP upgrade for my PC back in 2001.

    I think you're right on the NetMD coming out in 2000 or 2001, it was definitely later than the Rio, which I got in '99 as we were preparing for the good old Y2K and crunching on crusty COBOL systems.

    Ah...memories!! :)

    There's no doubt the Sony kicked it's a** though!
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Oldbieone on Sat Mar 4 10:07:28 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Oldbieone to Nightfox on Fri Mar 03 2023 01:05 pm

    The RIAA filed a suit against Diamond, IIRC. Not sure it went anywhere though, but I do recall that the reason floated around in magazines at the time for the low on-board storage capacity was an attempt to "play nice" with the recording industry, even though you could insert an SD for additional storage.

    As it came out of the box, I think you could get maybe 10 tracks on it. I remember having to expand the storage to get it usable as an everyday gizmo. It wasn't long before it replaced the tapes in my car though.

    Did it actually have an SD card slot for additional storage? I didn't think SD cards existed at the time. For the time it was released, I imagined it may have used CompactFlash.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Oldbieone@21:4/122 to Nightfox on Sat Mar 4 12:02:31 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Nightfox to Oldbieone on Sat Mar 04 2023 10:07 am

    0 7
    Did it actually have an SD card slot for additional storage? I didn't think cards existed at the time. For the time it was released, I imagined it may have used CompactFlash.

    You're right, it was a flash card now I think about it. I seem to recall you could only add 32MB according to Diamond but if you got the right brand you could stick a 64MB in there. I'd have to look it up to be sure. I can't believe it was 24 years ago.

    Nothing like nostalgia to make you feel old :(
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Oldbieone on Sun Mar 5 15:27:18 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Oldbieone to Nightfox on Sat Mar 04 2023 12:02 pm

    You're right, it was a flash card now I think about it. I seem to recall you could only add 32MB according to Diamond but if you got the right brand you could stick a 64MB in there. I'd have to look it up to be sure. I can't believe it was 24 years ago.

    Nothing like nostalgia to make you feel old :(

    I know what you mean.. I remember in 1997 (or so) buying my original Voodoo graphics card for my PC, and later a Voodoo 2 and thought it was one of the greatest computer products ever. Any game that supported 3DFX ran so fast with a Voodoo card. And that doeesn't seem like that long ago..

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Nightfox on Sun Mar 5 23:41:47 2023
    I know what you mean.. I remember in 1997 (or so) buying my original Voodoo graphics card for my PC, and later a Voodoo 2 and thought it was one of the greatest computer products ever. Any game that supported
    3DFX ran so fast with a Voodoo card. And that doeesn't seem like that long ago..

    I still love Voodoo cards :) I have two Voodoo 2's in SLI, a couple of Voodoo 3's (but actually they're all in my amigas at the moment) and a 3500 tv card. The games with glide were so much fun.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to esc on Tue Mar 7 08:42:11 2023
    Re: Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: esc to Nightfox on Sun Mar 05 2023 11:41 pm

    I still love Voodoo cards :) I have two Voodoo 2's in SLI, a couple of Voodoo 3's (but actually they're all in my amigas at the moment) and a 3500 tv card. The games with glide were so much fun.

    Interesting, I didn't know any of the Voodoo cards would work in an Amiga. I've never owned an Amiga though.. I didn't know Amigas had PCI ports. And I would have thought the Voodoo cards would be too new for Amigas to have drivers for them (unless there are 3rd-party drivers?)

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Nightfox on Wed Mar 8 09:09:22 2023
    Hi Nightfox,

    Interesting, I didn't know any of the Voodoo cards would work in an
    Amiga. I've never owned an Amiga though.. I didn't know Amigas had
    PCI ports. And I would have thought the Voodoo cards would be too new
    for Amigas to have drivers for them (unless there are 3rd-party
    drivers?)

    The use of a "Buss Board", is how Amiga's can access "some" pci devices
    that have drivers. There's actually a good range of them.

    http://amiga.resource.cx/dir/bus



    \/orlon
    aka
    Stephen


    --- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
    * Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to vorlon on Tue Mar 7 16:49:20 2023
    Re: Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: vorlon to Nightfox on Wed Mar 08 2023 09:09 am

    Interesting, I didn't know any of the Voodoo cards would work in an
    Amiga. I've never owned an Amiga though.. I didn't know Amigas had

    The use of a "Buss Board", is how Amiga's can access "some" pci devices that have drivers. There's actually a good range of them.

    http://amiga.resource.cx/dir/bus

    That's interesting.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Nightfox on Tue Mar 7 21:44:41 2023
    Interesting, I didn't know any of the Voodoo cards would work in an
    Amiga. I've never owned an Amiga though.. I didn't know Amigas had PCI ports. And I would have thought the Voodoo cards would be too new for Amigas to have drivers for them (unless there are 3rd-party drivers?)

    Yeah, the Amiga's have some 3rd party busboards which can take some (limited) PCI cards. The voodoo 3 is compatible in this case. It's pretty niche and can't do terribly much but I love it for what it _can_ do, hehe

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Nightfox on Thu Mar 9 11:16:27 2023
    Hi Nightfox.

    Interesting, I didn't know any of the Voodoo cards would work in
    an Amiga. I've never owned an Amiga though.. I didn't know Amigas

    The use of a "Buss Board", is how Amiga's can access "some" pci
    devices that have drivers. There's actually a good range of them. http://amiga.resource.cx/dir/bus

    That's interesting.

    Some people think they are the bee's knee's, other's swear at them.
    Personally I've not used any of them. They are mainly used in tower
    setup's, but elbox's mediator4000di will go into desktop/standard case.




    \/orlon
    aka
    Stephen


    --- Talisman v0.46-dev (Linux/m68k)
    * Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From hollowone@21:2/150 to esc on Fri Mar 10 12:38:46 2023
    Yeah, the Amiga's have some 3rd party busboards which can take some (limited) PCI cards. The voodoo 3 is compatible in this case. It's
    pretty niche and can't do terribly much but I love it for what it _can_ do, hehe

    I think I saw that WinUAE may have some support to VooDoo emulation, but I'm so far away to understand how to even configure it and consume at OS level that I never truly cared.

    I still find it impossible to configure 060 emulation in UAE properly, so I still am kind of stuck with 040 with 060+ speed that is practically delivered by UAE on modern machines.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a copy.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o for beeRS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to hollowone on Fri Mar 10 20:57:43 2023
    I think I saw that WinUAE may have some support to VooDoo emulation, but I'm so far away to understand how to even configure it and consume at OS level that I never truly cared.

    Yeah, it's doable. The only two main reasons for it are
    1) To configure an OS4.1FE system, or
    2) To set up a CF card to install in a hardware system with a Voodoo 3 card

    If your goal is to use warp3d, you're better off using wazp3d in my opinion (that is if you intend to stay on os3 in winuae).

    I still find it impossible to configure 060 emulation in UAE properly,
    so I still am kind of stuck with 040 with 060+ speed that is practically delivered by UAE on modern machines.

    Turns out there's no real benefit in emulation. The fastest your emulated environment will actually run is at 020 with a bunch of RAM. Funny how all this stuff works lol. Any other CPU actually just adds overhead and no additional benefit.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Atari8Guy@21:3/171 to Arelor on Mon Mar 20 00:45:08 2023
    Is this not also what happened with the TV show WKRP? The original
    airing had an awesome collection of tunes that were very much part of the
    show, but the licensing costs got out of control so in syndication and
    when the boxed set DVD came out it was a bunch of crapola songs..

    --- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
    * Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Atari ST! - bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983 (21:3/171)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Atari8Guy on Mon Mar 20 17:08:26 2023
    Atari8Guy wrote to Arelor <=-

    Is this not also what happened with the TV show WKRP? The original
    airing had an awesome collection of tunes that were very much part of
    the show, but the licensing costs got out of control so in syndication
    and when the boxed set DVD came out it was a bunch of crapola songs..

    Yes. Some of the scenes/songs still present in syndication were replaced
    or lost on the original DVD. There has recently been a Shout! Factory DVD release that has a good deal (but not near all!) of the scenes and songs restored.

    An odd bit of trivia regarding that latest DVD set... they used the
    original sources, wherever possible. This lead to a rarely/never before
    seen ending to the episode "The Contest that Nobody Could Win" (or maybe it
    was No One?) being used in place of the ending that almost everyone
    remembers.

    I don't remember the exact story... either they decided to reshoot it, and change the ending, before it ever aired, or they changed it after the
    original broadcast. I believe it was the former. The better-remembered
    ending is my favorite. The original/alternate ending is not as believable.



    ... "Television! Teacher, Mother, Secret Lover..." - Homer
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (21:4/134)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Atari8Guy on Tue Mar 21 07:44:50 2023
    Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Atari8Guy to Arelor on Mon Mar 20 2023 12:45 am

    Is this not also what happened with the TV show WKRP? The original
    airing had an awesome collection of tunes that were very much part of the show, but the licensing costs got out of control so in syndication and
    when the boxed set DVD came out it was a bunch of crapola songs..

    --- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
    * Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Atari ST! - bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983 (21:3/171)

    I would not know. I don't even know what that shows is. For what you say, it is likely.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Atari8Guy on Mon Mar 20 06:55:00 2023
    Atari8Guy wrote to Arelor <=-

    Is this not also what happened with the TV show WKRP? The original
    airing had an awesome collection of tunes that were very much part of
    the show, but the licensing costs got out of control so in syndication
    and when the boxed set DVD came out it was a bunch of crapola songs..

    "Hold me closer, Tony Danza..."

    I hope some person with time on their hands decides to make a Spotify
    playlist of the best of (original) WKRP background music. It'd be pretty
    good.

    I found a similar playlist on Spotify of all of the songs playing in the background of the movie "High Fidelity". Great listening!




    ... It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it plays out for 'em...
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Mar 21 18:33:00 2023
    Hello pF!

    I hope some person with time on their hands decides to make a Spotify playlist of the best of (original) WKRP background music. It'd be pretty good.

    https://www.thatericalper.com/2018/03/15/songs-ever-played-
    wkrp-cincinnati/

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ 14x1AnN8KV1MH3RYlnKR6FgOFuZ_-Qm-OUvuZo8G38kE/
    htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true


    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)
  • From Blue White@21:4/134 to Arelor on Thu Mar 23 14:40:02 2023
    Arelor wrote to Atari8Guy <=-

    Is this not also what happened with the TV show WKRP? The original

    I would not know. I don't even know what that shows is. For what you
    say, it is likely.

    WKRP in Cincinnati

    One of the greatest US TV shows ever. It ran from 1978-1982. There was a sequel show that ran from circa 1990-1992. It was better than a lot of
    shows that were on at the time, but was not as good as the first run. It
    can be differentiated by the phrase "The New..." at the beginning of the
    title.


    ... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
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    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (21:4/134)
  • From Phigan@21:3/171 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Mar 24 09:34:28 2023
    I found a similar playlist on Spotify of all of the songs playing in th background of the movie "High Fidelity". Great listening!

    Link plz!

    --- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
    * Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Atari ST! - bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983 (21:3/171)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Phigan on Fri Mar 24 12:56:31 2023
    Re: Re: When everything is digital.. this happens..
    By: Phigan to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Mar 24 2023 09:34 am

    I found a similar playlist on Spotify of all of the songs playing in
    th background of the movie "High Fidelity". Great listening!

    Link plz!

    https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DWZ5kgu17cbcC

    Enjoy!
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Phigan@21:3/171 to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri Mar 31 15:23:42 2023
    https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DWZ5kgu17cbcC

    Thanks! Will be checking this out as soon as I get on from the other
    machine ;).

    --- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
    * Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Atari ST! - bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983 (21:3/171)
  • From Alonzo@21:1/130 to Ogg on Mon Apr 3 16:59:10 2023
    The industry sure made a big outcry of lost monies when mp3
    emerged. But their industry was NOT overly affected at all.
    Plenty of profits were still being made.

    Yeah, the companies still made a lot of money, but you know who DIDN'T make a lot of money? The artists. The people who actually wrote and performed the music. I've been a pro musician for half my life and I can tell you that the record companies and publishing companies get most of your royalties. The artists get very little. That's why so many big bands still tour. It's their only way to make any money.

    ... No one knows what's next, but everybody does it.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: The Unmarked Van - 21:1/130 - Mt. Healthy, Ohio (21:1/130)
  • From Mickey@21:1/159 to Alonzo on Mon Apr 3 19:38:19 2023
    On 03 Apr 2023, Alonzo said the following...

    Yeah, the companies still made a lot of money, but you know who DIDN'T make a lot of money? The artists. The people who actually wrote and performed the music. I've been a pro musician for half my life and I can

    Read an article this morning entitled 'Is there too much music?'

    I have used companies like Tunecore et al in the past to manage some of my songs and havr them distributed on-line for a fee of course. During the Covid years as many as 6000 songs/day were being submitted to them. Somewhere on Spotify (I believe) there is place you can go and listen to many of them, most with not a single stream. It was interesting albiet kinda sad.

    Mickey

    ... Computers all wait at the same speed!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Bad Poetry Blues - centralontarioremote.com:2300 (21:1/159)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Alonzo on Tue Apr 4 00:18:02 2023
    Yeah, the companies still made a lot of money, but you know who DIDN'T make a lot of money? The artists. The people who actually wrote and performed the music. I've been a pro musician for half my life and I can tell you that the record companies and publishing companies get most of your royalties. The artists get very little. That's why so many big
    bands still tour. It's their only way to make any money.

    Can confirm, am related to one of the corporate suits sucking money out of the talent :( and one of the frontmen for a famous metal band is a good friend of mine, and he has to run a side hustle to make ends meet. It doesn't seem like a super glamorous lifestyle these days :( He was arguing with his label when they tried taking a bigger cut of merchandise, evidently that was the big thing still keeping them afloat. The way he related the industry to me was that labels always screwed talent, but in the post-mp3 world, labels made sure they could survive not by changing things internally, but actually by further screwing over the artists. Sad.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Bf2K+@21:3/171 to Alonzo on Tue Apr 4 09:00:00 2023
    Th other side of the music coin is this...

    I ahve been playing as a semi-pro musician since 1970 or so... and I make
    he same money ($100/night) that I made in 1970... just playing in bar
    bands doing cover tunes... that is a travesty.

    during the last paying gig I had back in 2017, the bar owner made the
    mistake of telling us that we would be playing for "experience" not cash.
    I told that mfker that I had been playing in the same band for 30 years..
    I had PLENTY of experience!!! We left without playing a note... hahah he
    was pissed! f' him!

    --- RATSoft/FIDO v09.14.95 [JetMail 1.01]
    * Origin: STar Fleet HQ - Atari ST! - bbs.sfhqbbs.org:5983 (21:3/171)
  • From vorlon@21:1/195.1 to Bf2K+ on Wed Apr 5 09:42:15 2023
    Hi Bf2K+,

    during the last paying gig I had back in 2017, the bar owner made the mistake of telling us that we would be playing for "experience" not

    Nothing beats experience, except getting paid for having it!.. *-)



    \/orlon
    aka
    Stephen


    --- Talisman v0.47-dev (Linux/m68k)
    * Origin: Vorlon Empire: Amiga 3000 powered in Sector 550 (21:1/195.1)
  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Esc on Tue Apr 4 21:06:59 2023
    BY: esc (21:4/173)


    |11e|09> |10The way he related the industry to me was that labels always screwed|07
    |11e|09> |10talent, but in the post-mp3 world, labels made sure they could survive|07
    |11e|09> |10not by changing things internally, but actually by further screwing over|07
    |11e|09> |10the artists. Sad.|07
    Its those 360 deals :(

    I usually try to patronize the merch tent so it can encourage the band to come back to my region of the world or state again.


    --- WWIV 5.8.0.3681[Windows]
    * Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)
  • From Michael Borthwick@21:3/179 to Utopian Galt on Wed Apr 5 17:28:19 2023
    The way he related the industry to me was that labels always screwed talent, but in the post-mp3 world, labels made sure they could survive

    I read an interesting article, for CD sales the two biggest takers were the producer and the distribution network about 30% each. The artist gets a percentage but they have to pay for basically everything else advertising, freebies to raido stations, hire of the studios and the staff, and all the other costs of producing a CD. I believe the take for the artists is around 1-2% of the cost of the CD depending on the artist of course.

    The big money maker for the artist is the live shows and merch at the shows. Depending on the artists they can get 50-60% or more of the ticket sales and all the merch sales.

    Of course if you're not a touring artist then you're kind of screwed.

    ... There will be a rain dance Friday night, weather permitting!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: third rock bbs: bbs.thirdrockbbs.au (21:3/179)
  • From Alonzo@21:1/130 to Bf2K+ on Wed Apr 5 08:05:54 2023
    during the last paying gig I had back in 2017, the bar owner made the mistake of telling us that we would be playing for "experience" not cash.

    Oh yeah. They're always trying to play this trick. Sometimes they will tell you that your gig is a "audition" and if you pass the audition, you MAY get to play for money sometime. The best thing to do is leave, like you did. Another trick bar owners play is to tell you that before you can get paid, you have to draw in a certain number of people. Then, of course it's all on you to get people to come to the show and then magically you don't seem to draw in enough people to get paid.

    ... If at first you don't succeed, blame your parents!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: The Unmarked Van - 21:1/130 - Mt. Healthy, Ohio (21:1/130)
  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to Alonzo on Tue Apr 18 22:41:00 2023
    Hello Alonzo!

    ** On Monday 03.04.23 - 16:59, Alonzo wrote to Ogg:

    ...I've been a pro musician for half my life and I can tell
    you that the record companies and publishing companies get
    most of your royalties. The artists get very little. That's
    why so many big bands still tour. It's their only way to
    make any money.

    I had the impression that most tours are NOT profit makers.
    There are lighting, multimedia, staging, insurance, roadie
    costs.. etc.

    Ticket systems are another joke/ripoff. They allow large groups
    of tickets to be sold and then those same tickets get scalped
    to desparate fans. The performer doesn't get the benefit of
    the increased prices.

    --- OpenXP 5.0.57
    * Origin: What do you call a musician with problems? A trebled man. (21:4/106.21)